Bird Accents FM 6 ===

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Seniz: So to know that a chaffinch you hear back home is different to one that you'd hear in a more urban or rural space. You know that that chaffinch is local to you. And that feels kind of special, I think, to know that they're just like us really.

Rosie: Hello, I am Ranger Rosie Holdsworth. And for this episode, I'm handing you over to fellow Ranger and bird lover Ajay Tagala, to speak [00:01:00] about the curious world of Chaffinches and the mission to find their disappearing urban song. Welcome to the Wild Tale of Bird Accents.

Ajay: When I was about four years old, I remember my parents taking me to feed the ducks on my local river and learning to identify the different species of water birds from the various ducks to a gray heron, which to my 4-year-old self look gigantic. Ever since then, I've been fascinated by birds and particularly passionate about conservation.

I recently came across a fact that chaffinches, a small songbird, have different accents in urban and rural areas. I wanted to speak to someone who could tell me more.

Hello Joe. How are you doing?

Joe: Yeah, not bad. Not bad. Thanks. Uh,

Ajay: so I rang up Joe Cooper, a researcher with the British Trust for Ornithology and a [00:02:00] specialist in Bioacoustics. In other words, he's an expert in Birdsong.

Joe: So I've liked birds all my life. It kind of stems very young being a child that never slept, and so I was just given to my grandparents and they'd just take me for walks around the estate and they'd point out Robins, they, they knew kind of all the common urban, urban birds and things, and then it just sprang from there.

This was the thing that I was kind of born to do. I've done a number of projects over 10, 15 years looking at the, um, various different aspects of song, how you measure it, and then really intricate stuff into behavior, kind of how song is learned, why song can be learned differently by different species.

Ajay: Chaffinches have always fascinated Joe with their blue cap and salmon chest, but what Joe loves most about them is their song.

Joe: I mean, it, I think it's, it's really nice. It's quite powerful. It's about three seconds long, roughly, and it's [00:03:00] a kind of a trill and a flourish, and it's usually about five to six phrases long.

So it will go do, do do do do, do do, do bling, something like that. So chaff Andes have two to six different songs and they learn very precisely. But not completely precisely. Accents are just a general product of social learning. So the idea that you are trying to imitate something else that you've seen in your environment, in vocal learning, you know, you are trying to, listening to everyone that's around you.

So what you get is okay if we compare it to humans. You're pronouncing, I don't know, was rather than was, or, you know, all these different things. So you are, you are transitioning towards that sound that you are hearing most in your environment and that process is kind of universal to humans, across to birds.

Of our estimates at the minute [00:04:00] is that a chaffinch song has a roughly 50 kilometer, 30 mile radius. So individuals within that radius, they, it's within their soundscape to learn this song. It might, they might not necessarily produce it, but they'll be able to hear it in their environment and they, outside of that, they, they won't be able to hear it.

Ajay: I love that. I think that's great. But Chaffinches, once the second most common garden bird are under threat.

Joe: They've encountered this disease, finch trichomonosis, and since then their population has, has crashed. It's believed that this condition is correlated with feeding activity in people's gardens. We think it's being transmitted out, feeding stations.

Maybe these feeders haven't been cleaned as well as perhaps they should be. And yeah, that's resulted in this crash, particularly in kind of urban populations. So if you go to Woodlands now, the chaffing population is kind of [00:05:00] unaffected, but your town population's, you know, quite absent at the minute of chaffing song.

Ajay: So that means it's harder to record and get lots of recordings of the urban voices to then compare to the rural.

Joe: It's been a tough time to record. I had a project in 20 16 during the decline and my plan was to record 50 birds one year, go back and record them again and, and see what changed. And I had 50 birds in the first year and 11 in the second year.

Ajay: But Joe, who loves this bird song, is not willing to let them go so easily. New technology, smartphones and apps like Merlin that help people detect Birdsong means that it doesn't take an expert to identify and record them. And recording Urban and rural Chaffin songs may have some important benefits for conservation

Joe: This... this disease is likely to affect their ability to produce song, and if you are able [00:06:00] to record birds in urban suburban environments, the theory states that we should be able to detect if this bird is diseased or not.

Ajay: So that's amazing. People can not only find out whether it's got a different accent, but actually whether it's got the disease or not, just by recording with their own phone.

Joe: Potentially.

Yeah. I mean, this, this is a kind of, um, it's a, it's a hypothetical, but there are characteristics of the song which they should have learned when they were young. And so you'll be able to detect whether the bird has learned well. But you'll then also be able to tell whether it's producing the song badly, if that makes sense.

So it's kind of, I don't know, a drunk pianist or something like that. There'll be something in there that will say, oh, they, they have the knowledge, but they aren't, they aren't quite getting it right.

Ajay: The right notes in the wrong order. That kind of thing.

Joe: Yeah, exactly.

Ajay: That's amazing. That's such a, a fascinating piece of work.

As Joe was speaking.

I felt that there was something we could do. I wanted [00:07:00] to make sure these accents are protected to see if we could find these different songs and maybe if we're lucky, contribute to their conservation. But I knew what the biggest challenge would be. I needed someone who could help me find these urban chaffinch songs as Joe said.

Chaffinches are in decline in urban areas, so they're not always easy to find. I set off to Petts Wood on the edge of southeast London to meet fellow birder Seniz Mustafa. Once the best place to spot a chaffinch was in your back garden. But as their numbers decline, we want to give ourselves the best chance to find them.

Petts wood and the hawk estate have a huge range of environments in a small area. Open grassland farmland, and a woodland that erupts into blue bells in the spring. As I began to search for the Chaffinches, a chance encounter showed me at least where they'd been before.

Ian: Hello, I'm Ian Johnson and I'm a volunteer [00:08:00] in the pets Wood and hawk wood estate national trust estate, and I've known these woods since 1944.

As as a boy, I was also interested in birdwatching. Since, I think probably about the age of seven when I first saw a missile thrush in the back garden. I was recording what were the birds I was seeing each year in the woods.

Ajay: Ian brings out a school book with neat handwriting and columns of birds dates and notes in it are fire crests, song Thrushes and chaffinches.

Ian: I haven't got a particularly vivid memory because they were so common. You know, you would, you'd see them and you'd know them, but now you hardly ever see them. And that's, that's the main thing I can think about them at the moment. Pity, really, I can't even really envisage what they sound like, which is odd.

Tell [00:09:00] me what they sound like.

Ajay: I'm at the edge of pet's wood with Seniz Mustafa. And we're reminding ourselves of that distinctive chaffin call as we head off on our search.

Seniz: Like are dododo

Ajay: yeah,

Seniz: it's almost like a verbal tapping or a,

Ajay: it reminds me of like a ball landing on the surface and going and then Yeah, coming off at the end.

She is, is an ecologist and an advocate for UK Youth for Nature. She grew up in Bromley, Southeast London. And if anyone can find their way around pets wood, it's her.

Seniz: Uh, it is one of the places that means the absolute most to me.

The bit that we're at now is sort of the pets wood haw court estate, which led up to, uh, my secondary school. So I used to walk there sometimes and even now, like I'm sure if you can hear that [00:10:00] the birds are amazing

Ajay: and I love how we're just on the edge of this housing estate. And then we're gonna go into the woods.

Into like another world really. I know.

Seniz: Oh, it's gonna bring back memories.

Ajay: Can you remember any early connections to birds here?

Seniz: I think I always associated, as other people do sort of wood pigeons with summer, I. No matter what. Although granted as a child, I thought they were owls, but I really had that wrong.

Oh. But it was always sort of a background soundtrack to the change of the seasons.

Ajay: So to help us with our bird song identification. I know you're pretty good, you know your birds, but I always find it's great to have the good old Merlin app.

Absolutely. Just for a little bit of extra support. Merlin is a free app you can get on a smartphone.

It's not 100% accurate, but it can provide a helping hand in identifying Birdsong. Should we pause a minute and listen to what we can hear?

Hmm. Some jack daws and crows?

Seniz: Mm-hmm.[00:11:00]

Of course, the. Yeah, song thrush. I saw a song thrush past the Primary School as I came along here. I've never seen one so blatantly by a road.

Ajay: Why do you think Birdsong is important in urban areas?

Seniz: I think it lets people know the sort of the change of the seasons, and I think that in an area where it's so manmade and all of those noises, I. I personally don't like it very much. So being in a space where you can hear birdsong, I think is really important for people to relax for their wellbeing, enjoy where they live, uh, in such a time where, you know, not that people don't have access to natural spaces, and having an opportunity for people to learn about where they're from, gather a sense of community and sort of a sense of place of where they live, having that deep connection.[00:12:00]

So that woodpecker could be really far away, but it just sounds so close. How loud It's....

Ajay: yeah, it's almost that sort of dip in the ground there. It's almost like it's sort of somehow amplifying the sound, I think.

Yeah.

And we're sort of like, like in an amphitheater and we're kind of hearing it from the other side, projected this way.

Seniz: They're so noisy.

Ajay: Yeah.

It feels to me like the bird calls are louder here than the ones back home where I live in a slightly quieter, more rural setting. How do you think Chaffin accents can give people that sense of place? I.

Seniz: I think it's knowing that their calls are different if they're from a rural and urban area in almost quite a similar way to, we are as people.

Our accents are different regionally as well, but I think that's so amazing. I wonder if you ever could hear a scuse chafin what that might sound like, and I think that can, that can [00:13:00] definitely build some connection. It's so peaceful.

Ajay: It is, and it's so important for young people of course, to have that.

Sense of their place and their surroundings.

Seniz: And I think that building some connection to Birdsong, particularly Chaffin, is one that's declining. And so to sort of identify where they live and build that sense of, this is where I'm from. I'm proud of where I live. And when I, when I'm here, I hear the chaffin is like this so much, and then I go to the radio, I think, oh, they sound completely different.

Because they're not, they're not where you are from. And that contrast I think, could be quite special.

Ajay: Yes, absolutely. And that sense of pride that you've picked up on as well is really important as well. And lovely. I.

Seniz: It's something I think that young people really don't get to experience. I think I was the same.

You know, when you're younger, you don't have lots of money, especially when you're from sort of greater London, you'll sort of sit in the park together, which is nice, but you don't sort of have that same encouragement to get [00:14:00] outside. I think things are moving in a bit more of a positive direction, and so I think getting young people outside is something that needs more attention to it.

Ajay: And it links back to, I suppose, what humans did thousands of years ago, sharing knowledge and sharing experiences

Seniz: and that intergenerational gap that we have. It'd be amazing to close that and learn from each other as well as with other young people. Of course.

Ajay: Absolutely. And that really brings home the decline in birds like Jaffes and Greenfinches.

Yeah. When you hear those memories,

Seniz: it's a beautiful call saying, I, I've, I was listening to, I think. I've definitely heard this before lots of times, but not in the several months. At least. I've, I've moved back to London.

Oh.

But they are so beautiful. I think even just as well as their song, the color that they have, it brings this vibrancy to nature and so diversity of color, we need that in our environment as it's increasingly becoming more gray and black and white kind of [00:15:00] colors.

We need that vibrancy of colors and that vibrancy of sounds.

Ajay: Let's see what's on Merlin.

It's always parakeets wherever we seem to go. Mm-hmm. Oh, it has picked up something new. We've got green Finch on here. I don't often hear green finches 'cause like finches, they've really declined over the last few years.

Seniz: Mm-hmm.

Ajay: Because just like the Greenfinches, the reason the Chaffinches have declined so much is because of the same disease.

Seniz: Mm-hmm.

Ajay: And we still haven't heard one yet today. No.

So we're heading uphill now on a sort of gravelly path. There's some nice mature trees. Nice oak tree here. I wonder if we'll have any different birds in this area.[00:16:00]

Seniz: See on the wire,

Ajay: that's a Greenwood Ker laughing.

Seniz: One of my favorite things. I just love to find the birds in the tree to just stop there and try and spot them. Take that

Ajay: time to pick them out. Yeah.

Seniz: Yeah. It is just, it's almost like a fun little game just. Can I find them? Where are they? I think that interaction with animals in that way also probably sort of subconsciously inspired me to do what I do, because I think interacting with animals, birds, anything, I think it's so relaxing, especially as now a neurodivergent person.

I didn't know at the time how calming that experience was with any sort of animal of a. Grounding sort of experience in a difficult time. It's hard being a teenager. Absolutely. God, I've done my time. I can't do that again. But I think having that connection to animals really helped me. And I think having that and my evolution really directed me into that sort of ecology [00:17:00] and conservation direction, even if I wasn't quite aware that that was the right direction I was going.

And I'm very, very grateful for it. 'cause I'm so glad with what I did.

Ajay: Amazing. But I think it just shows that what you're surrounded with, what you're surrounded by can really have a profound impact on your future.

Seniz: Yes, I think so. And I think having that knowledge. As somebody who's, you know, now I'm 25 and I've got younger cousins, they're only about 13 thinking.

How can I change things for them, bring them into these spaces and. I'm proud to say one of them quite likes birds now, so, oh, that's a great sign. We're not gonna pressure them. We're not gonna pressure them. But you know, giving that opportunity, 'cause especially I suppose in my culture as well, it just wasn't really a thing that we ever grew up with Uhhuh.

And so to be that sort of outdoorsy or much older cousin to be like, do you wanna come out? Should we go look at the butterflies, should go look at the birds. Um, and I suppose the hope is. Coming back to chaff Ines, that that might be something that they would still be able to interact with. Absolutely. I hope so.

Anyway,[00:18:00]

Ajay: despite the sunny day, lots of wildlife sightings and she's optimism. We don't see any chaff, Ines, so I leave feeling disappointed. It wasn't surprising. As the number of urban Chaffinches decrease, they become rarer harder to find. Losing urban bird song doesn't only mean a reduction in birds or even just the loss of unique accents.

If species start to disappear, suddenly people living in urban areas are hearing less and less song.

And now I'm hearing how the Chaffin call could be one of them. But I want to help Joe to discover more about their conservation. I want to help save their songs, so I contact birders around the country, telling them about Joe's research, the threat to them, and their incredible accents and weight.[00:19:00]

Seniz: That's a chaff. It's not. It's gone.

That was

Rosie: great. Hi, my name is Charlotte Ely. I'm the area ranger of Leath Hill In.

Joe: I heard these chaffing chairs in North Dev

Person 2: morning. The listening outfit, Chaffin is in London. So, hi, I'm a winner and I recorded my chaff, Andes, Nick ick in the lake, and the best chaff calls

I've heard.

Whether that's because that's where they are or,

or.

Ajay: Thanks for listening to this episode of Wild Tales with me, Aja Tagal. I want to say a special thank you to everyone who sent in recordings of Chaffinches from across the country to find [00:20:00] out more about Chaffinches Joe's research and behind the scenes action. You can head to our Instagram at Wild Tales nt if you hear a chaffin, especially in an urban area.

And would like to contribute to Joe's research, please send it to joe.Cooper@bto.org. We've left recording instructions in the show notes, video podcasts from the National Trust can be found on our YouTube channel or on Spotify. While you're there, why not check out our history Show back when or for smaller ears range array and the wildlifes.

See you next time.

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