Hello everyone
and welcome to another episode of Selling Greenville
your favorite real estate podcast here in Greenville
South Carolina, I'm your host as always
Stan McCune Realtor right here in Greenville
South Carolina
and you can find all of my contact info in the show
notes you need to reach out to me
for any of your real estate needs
here in Greenville, Spartanburg
Anderson Pickens the greater Greenville area
if you need a realtor in any of those areas
I just described, and please support the show okay
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the entire upstate of South Carolina
I can help you and sometimes people from out of town
or out of state don't fully understand this
the Greenville market is is
is a small market you know
at the end of the day
for as much publicity as Greenville gets
Greenville punches above its weight in that regard
and so some people think okay
well you must
you know people
coming from big cities well
you must focus on a very specific area of
of Greenville County that's just not how it works
realtors in the upstate
tend to focus on the entire upstate
and about half
my closings this year have been outside of Greenville
County Spartanburg
Anderson County Pickens County
so these sorts of things happen
even it's a occasional OK
a Oconee County
Greenwood
et cetera et cetera
today we're not going to be getting too much into data
or into you know
specific Greenville stuff
I did say
last week when I was talking about some of the
some of the developments that are coming out
that I was going to try to produce
some video content on those
that is in the work
so hopefully that will happen sooner than later
of course
when you're doing video content like that and
and I've never done it before
that sort of content before where I'm like on site
almost like a reporter
like reporting on what's happening
it's heavy on the editing side
right in order to
to actually look good
so I'm I'm working through that and
just stay connected to my YouTube channel
at Stan Mchugh
pretty much all my socials are at Stan Mchugh
I've got a very rare name apparently
because I can just get it
on every single social media platform
and yes
if I if you see me on YouTube fixing my hair a lot
it's because I I just showered not too long ago
after working out leg day today
and of course I have a standing desk
so my legs are aching
but you guys deserve this content right
so even though my legs are aching as I am standing here
giving you this content with my hair all whacked out
as they used to say in like the 90s
I'm still gonna give you guys great content
so today
we want to talk about basically a real estate vibe
check okay
I think that's what I'm gonna call this
call this episode
cause this is not gonna be data centric
like I already said it's not gonna be green
well it is gonna be Greenville centric
cause everything I say on here is Greenville centric
in one way or another
but these are just things that I'm experiencing
things that I'm hearing
things that are happening in the market
that you can't really put a number on
but they are very real things
now I want to hedge this
that I am not talking about any of my clients
if you think
if you're a client of mine and you hear what I'm saying
and you think oh
he must be talking about me
I'm not talking about you
okay just to
for me to talk into the mic there to clarify that
I'm not talking about you
this is a combination
of things I'm seeing and hearing in the industry
and nothing that I'm
gonna say in here is something I haven't heard from
another realtor at some point in time in the past
few months so
so this isn't about my clients
I don't come on here and vent about my clients
that's bad business
I'm not gonna start doing that today
but there are some vibes right now in the market
it's a it's an interesting market right now right
ten year yield which is what we use to
kind of track what's happening in
the mortgage market is sitting right at 4.349
I'm recording this on may the fifth
Cinco de Mayo basically 3.5 sorry 4.35
has basically been
the number that the 10 year yield has been bouncing
back and forth around
really for quite some time now
and so until something in the market changes
we're going to continue to see probably around 4.35
which had which
the end result of that is that mortgage rates
per Mortgage News Daily are hovering at 6.9%
that doesn't mean that you can't do better
or potentially worse than that
most people with good credit scores
are going to be able to get better than 6.9%
but that's an aggregate
and so just be prepared for that
if you are looking at the data
sometimes the data can be a little bit misleading
when you're looking at things in aggregate
talk to your mortgage lender about that
if you don't have a mortgage lender
I can connect you with one
so what are some of the vibes right now
what are some of the things that are happening
well I'll start with this
every seller is overvaluing their home
every single one of them okay
and it is a fight
to convince sellers to price their home
even at the top end of what it's worth
because they just want to go higher
it's hard for sellers right now to comprehend
how much the market has slowed down
from just a few years ago right
and for
I will give you this piece of data
cause
this is a shocking piece of data to a lot of people
right now we are experiencing
this is not Greenville specific
this is nationwide
the lowest number of resale transactions okay
existing homes okay
so what we're talking about
when we talk about existing homes
resale transactions
back out all the new construction data
out of the data that we have
and what's left is existing homes resales okay
resales
sales of existing homes
are at their lowest level since 1995
yes lower than 2007
2008 2 thousand nine
2,010 lower than the dot com bubble
99 through 2001
we have to roll back the clock all the way to 1995
when the population was much lower than it is now
when there
wasn't all of these
people of age looking to purchase homes right now
we got millennials and Gen Z right now
still looking to purchase homes
and we have boomers that are like
one of the biggest demographics
right now purchasing home that wasn't even a thing
right for retiree aged people to be a
one of the top home buyers in a market
that wasn't a thing until fairly recently right
boomers have completely up ended
a lot when it comes to real estate
and one of the things is that
they are continuing to be super
duper active in real estate
into their retirement years and
and imagine if they weren't right
these numbers are are at 30 year lows
with retirees being more active in real estate
than they have ever been so it's really
really interesting to
to go through this and to talk to sellers
and they just have no idea
and they're and how would they right
they don't you know I'm
I'm very very close and any realtor is very
very close to this
but the general public is not very close to it
so what a lot of my listing appointments right now and
and other realtor's listing appointments right now what
what is being experienced is that
we'll go through data
we'll look at where homes should be priced
and it just doesn't sit well with a seller
you know a seller wants
you know maybe I'll
I'll go into a listing appointment
just as an example and say
you know based on comps
the home should be worth 3:30 to 3:50
you know just as an example
and they're like
was really hoping for 3:75 and it's like okay
where's that number where did you get that number from
right and again
none of my clients have done this sort of thing
I'm just using this as an example and and
and I have had people in the past that have done that
they just plucked a number out of thin air
and it's like okay
this is what they think their home is worth
because of something that they read
who knows what
but but this is the battle right now
is that home is worth 3:30 to 3:50
and someone wants to you know
the seller wants to list it for three 75
that's the worst thing you can do
I went to a
a broker open house earlier this week or well
last week technically as I'm recording this
broker open house for those that don't know
it's a it's a way to get other realtors into a home
that they haven't shown and
and usually it's a way to get feedback right
to to try to figure out okay
what can I do what can I improve about this home
or what can I
what can the seller improve about this home
or what can I improve about my listing
in order to try to market this home better
I went to one where again
it was the the
the listing agent was telling me the same thing
that their client
was just really resistant to reducing the price
but it was so very obvious that the price
need to be reduced
and so this is what we keep running into
listen I'm just going to be honest with you guys
if a home is overpriced
no amount of marketing can fix that okay
the the general public doesn't seem to
completely comprehend this
you know like they'll constantly fire realtors
for a listing that was just overpriced
and
and you know maybe the realtor that listed the home
didn't know how to price it
and that's why they're being fired
maybe they didn't even try to sell it at that price
that's why there's why they're being fired
I I don't
I'm not saying it's a one size fits all
that they should not fire the agent because of that
but I am saying that it's kind of silly to me
how often I see that a listing agent will be fired
and then replaced with another agent who
with a you know
50 thousand dollar price reduction
it's like why don't you just reduce the price
$50,000 with the other agent and see what happened
and
and of course
there are always different reasons for that
but at the end of the day
no real estate professional
none of their marketing
is ever going to overcome an overpriced home
it's impossible the data is there
I could
I could show you guys data until you're screaming
until your eyes burn as you're watching my
My Crazy Hair on YouTube I could provide you
a ton of data to show that you cannot overcome
an overpriced home in your marketing
so don't do that
if you have an agent maybe you're not using me
you have an agent that tells you
your home is worth 3:30 to 3:50
stay within that range don't bully your agent
or try to bully your agent into listing it for three
seventy five bad
bad move in a market like this market
secondly here
buyers are being both selective and picky okay
now I need to differentiate between these two things
selective
buyers are buyers that they know what they want
they're gonna hold out for what they want and it's
you know maybe it's a certain neighborhood
maybe it's a certain style of home you know
like a mid mod or something like that who knows what
maybe it's just a you know something on land there
there's a lot of things like that
that we can look at and be like okay
it is possible there
the market does produce these sorts of homes
we just have to be patient for it right
that's being selective
being picky is when someone goes into a home
and they're just nitpicking every little thing
and making stuff up
parents often times do this for their kids
if the parents
you know if if the kid is buying a home
let's say you know
it's 25 year old they're buying a home
parents wanna be involved in the process
the parents will come over and make up a bunch of stuff
and pretend like they
they're a home inspector
they're an appraiser or whatever
drives realtors go crazy
we always hate when the parents show up
because they think they know a lot more than they do
and and that's pretty much universal
there are some exceptions
but I've had multiple deals over the years
that or potential deals fall through
because of
parent involvement is is the reality of the situation
and
and for no good reason
not because the parents brought value
they didn't
anyway that's
that's a whole another aside
I've talked about that in the past
but buyers right now
we're seeing both selectivity and pickiness
and that's just making it hard
right a
hard for everyone
because I and
and I understand why buyers are being
selective and picky
because everything's so unaffordable
mortgage rates 6.9% like who can afford that right now
while the economy is kind of in a weird place
there's a whole lot going on
there's a lot of uncertainty and and
and this just creates challenges
well then
creates even bigger challenges if you're the seller
right because if you're the seller and
and you know
you're just wanting to sell your home
what do you do if every single buyer is going in
and is just nitpicking everything to oblivion
it
it it quite frankly is exhausting right
and of course
they've got a lot of options right now
cause we've had a lot of inventory come on market
come online the past the past month
as normally happens this time of year
and you know
by that results of buyers being pickier right
they've got more options
and so that's something that we're seeing a good bit of
and that's just something we have to work through
I try to educate my buyers
excuse me my
nose is itchy here I try to educate my buyers on
how to be selective and how to be picky in
in a reasonable way right there
there and and
and like I said
there's a huge difference between being selective
and being picky
I love when buyers are selective
me personally
if they know what they want and they stick to the guns
that makes my job easier
because I can find them exactly what they want
once I kind of get a sense of
of what it is that they want
sometimes that takes some time
if they're picky it could be anything right
they could be like oh
I don't like the color of those
you know I don't like the light fixtures
I don't like the hardware that they put in the kitchen
you know
just like stupid stuff like that
that's easy to be changed out
that there has to be some reasonable
approach right when it comes to that
and so
sometimes there's some educating that goes along like
you're you're at this price point
you're not gonna find a house that doesn't need
something right
sometimes we have to have those sorts of conversations
or sometimes we just have to have the conversation of
like you know what
you're looking for a custom home at a non custom price
like if you want to come in and make updates
after you buy it then by all means do that
but you're not you at this price point
you're probably not going to find
a home that checks every single box
and usually my buyer clients when they
you know give me the list of 10 things
or whatever that they're looking for in a home
usually by the end of the process
they have like scratched out not literally
but figuratively
scratched out five or six of those things and
and are running with the four that are the
the four most important things to them
and and that's a frequent thing that ends up happening
and so sometimes it's just an an expectation thing
buyer's expectations right now are are a challenge
for me as a realtor for sellers it
it is just something that we have to work through
and it to me
it all stems from affordability being constrained
right now buyers
are scared that they're not gonna be able to afford to
to do updates to their home and
and they may not be able to
after they're paying their their you know
the the mortgage payment the way it's gonna be and so
these are things that we're having to work through
another thing No. 3 on this list
fixer uppers
are appearing on the Multiple Listing Service
we talked about this in the past
but generally not with an attractive price okay
I'm seeing fixer uppers
all over the place
appearing on the Multiple Listing Service
for the first time really in a long time
but they're not appearing at fixer upper prices
you know it's like 2
15 215,000
in a neighborhood
where a fixed up home will sell for 285
well if you've ever flipped a house
you know that those numbers
for the most part don't pencil right
unless you have the absolute bare minimum
of work that needs to be done off
but guess what if you have the absolute
bare minimof work that needs to be done
that is gonna get bit up and so there's
there's no easy solution here
because there's still a tremendous amount of demand
in this market even though there's not a lot of
as much cash in this market as there has been
there's still a ton
of demand for these fixer upper homes
a lot of people that are trying to
you know investors
trying to buy a fixer upper
that they can then use as a rental
that'll offset some things for tax purposes
a whole lot of things going on right now and
so the reality is that we are seeing them
but they are if they're priced really attractively
they're going right away
they're getting bit up
and a lot of them are not even priced attractively
which creates this whole other dynamic of like
well I have people ask me all the time
well do we go in and make a lowball offer
do we wait it out what exactly
you know what exactly do we do
and it's a case by case kind of thing
it really depends on the listing
but it's very interesting right now
we are not seeing this glut
of really attractively priced fixer uppers foreclosures
what not hitting the market
like many of the doomers foretold
it's just not happening
maybe it's happening in other markets
it's not happening in Greenville
another one here
No. 4 I've seen this a lot
small lots size fatigue is setting in for many
I'm just hearing over and over again
here's a very common thing that happens right
new construction
oftentimes sets trends
that then become adopted by the rest of the market
so the builders they will
you know build things
kind of push the
the envelope when it comes to new styles
you you might be laughing
you might be saying they're pushing the envelope
when it comes to new styles
no they really do the thing is that it
it doesn't happen overnight right
it's like it's a
it's a multi year process where this happens
but eventually
the market grows to despise
what the new builders have done and so
then it reverses and then it becomes oh
I don't want a house to look anything
like new construction
and we're starting to see that quite a bit now
and one of those things that we're starting to see that
in is in small lot size fatigue
you know these really
these postage stamp size lots
they were never popular necessarily
but it's reaching a point now where people are moving
in my opinion
more so than ever moving off those small lots to
specifically to get bigger yards
bigger lots space between their neighbors
all of that and
I'm seeing this quite a bit and I'd have several
several past clients that want to
relocate from where they currently live
because of
being in a small lot size
there's a whole lot of that going on right now
and so that's
that's something that that we're dealing with
but unfortunately again
a lot of them are just having a hard time being able to
to find a home with a larger lot that
they can actually afford
at the end of the day
so the fatigue is there
but the solution for the fatigue
not necessarily there
and that's a shame but that's just the reality of it
here's another one a lot of people
I keep running into are needing places to
to rent for like one to two months right now
okay so if you're an investor
you got some properties that could be
what we call midterm rentals right
short term rental is like a day or a week
to rent you know on Airbnb or VRBO
a midterm rental usually 30 day
30 day 60 day
90 day something like that sort of lease agreement
so if you got property that you could easily convert to
like a furnished midterm rental
there is a market right now
a pretty a pretty sizable market
and again as people
you know they're having to
they're relocating down here without a house teed up
they are having to sell their home and then
and and then
you know purchase something else but again
it's really hard to buy something with a home sale
contingency
unless you've got your home under contract already
and so a lot of people are having to sell their home first
and then rent for a short period of time before buying
obviously they don't want to rent for six to 12 months
so they try to find these midterm rentals
so there's a lot of this
agents in my office constantly
constantly sending out emails saying
does anyone have a a rental available between
I don't know May 15th and
and the end of June
I I can't tell you how many of those emails per week
I get so there's definitely a big opportunity there
and definitely consider that
if you have some property that could be converted to
midterm rental
here's another one
investors are calling again
what do you know my phone has
you know I
I got into this business I
I was considered the investor realtor right
that was really how I got started in this business
I'm still kind of considered that
in certain circles
but obviously I'm much broader than that
my business is heavy on relocations as well
it's heavy on first time home buyers
and of course it is still heavy on investors
but they're finally calling again right
they went dormant for a while and
and I'm starting to get those
get those calls people that are like
hey can you find me something
can you find me this can you find me that
now if you're one of those people
if you're if you're asking for something really broad
you're not gonna find it if you're
if what you're looking for is everything
you're not gonna find it you need to be more selective
this goes into what I was saying before
and this is a mistake that a lot of investors make
is they start with too too broad of
of a criteria you know
they're just like well
I wanna make this amount of money and
you know kind of this sort of property and
try to be as specific as possible
the more specific you are
the easier it is for me
or for another realtor to help you
but this is what's happening and I
my theory could be right could be wrong
and it it might vary from one to the next
my theory is that
people want to stash their cash
that they have right now in real estate
cause they have no
idea what's happening in the rest of the economy
and there's also a sense of realizing that
at some point we're going to recover from this
you know we're at these lows that I said that are like
since 30 year lows
at some point the market's going to rebound
in some way
so have we reached the bottom right
so a lot of people you know when
when there's uncertainty in the economy
they wanna stash their money somewhere safe
there's not a whole lot
of investments out there that are safer
than real estate right
and so my phone is is blown up again with people
wanting to invest in real estate
and that's something I'm always
willing to talk to people and try to help them out with
here's another one
low appraisals okay
low appraisals if you're an appraiser listening to this
you just got triggered
because you don't believe that low appraisals exist
only appraisals below
the contract price right
and that's not a low appraisal
that's an accurate appraisal
well it's a low appraisal
that's it's just a lot simpler to to say that
and instead of getting so caught up in the semantics of it
I understand appraisers like semantics that's
that's a thing for them
I don't I don't like it
I think we can call it a little appraisal and
and move on
but yes they're becoming a thing
I've been very fortunate
to have not run into a low appraisal situation
that's impacted any of my clients this year so far
part of that is I have really tried to get ahead of it
right I've had multiple situations
where I was concerned with the low appraisal
and so I contact the appraiser
I get them information on the home
information on things that the
that the seller has done to the home
different things to try to
to try to do my best to educate the appraiser to try to
get that appraisal that number up as high as possible
and but I'm I'm hearing from other agents
many of them
that they are struggling with low appraisals right now
and so be prepared for that right
just because
you find a way to get your home under contract
for more than you were expecting
doesn't mean it's going to close for that number
you've got to go through the right of passage
of an appraisal in order to get there
to the end and there's no free lunch in real estate
right appraisals and appraisers
they are god in a transaction at the end of the day
in a real estate transaction
and they will
potentially hold up your transaction
if you
get a home under contract for more than the comps say
it should be under contract for okay
and sometimes buyers will even use that strategy
where they where they're confident
they don't think that it's going to appraise
but they just want to get the home under contract
so they have that appraisal contingency in there
and then at the end of the day
it ends up not appraising
and then they can just negotiate
with the seller to bring the price down
to where they want it anyway
so sometimes that happens
I don't recommend that strategy if you're a buyer
but I do know buyers that have done that
so this is a problem this is something you gotta get
get out in front of if you can
and there's a few ways to do that
not gonna get into a ton of detail about that
I already gave you guys a few little tidbits on that
but that's something we can talk about
if you're wanting to sell your home
I'm hearing a lot more people
trying to do subject to the mortgage purchases
so this is something I've this
this really surprised me okay
so subject to to the mortgage purchases
basically works this way okay
so normally when you have a mortgage on your home
and you go to sell that home
the buyer has to pay off your mortgage
and then the lien is released
and then you that mortgage goes away okay
when someone buys a home subject to the mortgage
what that means is that actually they
they purchase the home the deed transfers over to them
but the mortgage stays
and it stays in the seller's name okay
it doesn't get transferred over to the buyer's name it
it doesn't work that way
the only way for that to happen is a mortgage
Assumption that's a completely different thing
so you may have heard that
a lot of mortgages have a due on sale clause well
that's true so
when you're doing this sort of a transaction
for your buyer
you could have a situation where the lender tells you
you know screw you
we have a due on sale clause now
you have to pay the entire mortgage off right now
so if you're a buyer and you're thinking about doing a
a sub 2 transaction be prepared
to have a contingency plan in case that lender does
exercise their due on sale clause
but regardless I'm getting
you know if I have a listing
that doesn't go under contract within two weeks
I'm getting multiple
subject to the mortgage offers from investors
which is surprising to me
because mortgage rates are so high right
none of these are homes that had low mortgage rates
and and by low I mean
you know those
those 3% rates that we had back in the day
no these are homes that have 6
7% mortgage rates and I'm getting offers
that are subject to the mortgage
and I just think that
investors are just trying anything and everything
that they can
and it benefits investors
because that mortgage doesn't show up as their mortgage
so they can continue to make purchases
continue to accrue debt
that doesn't show up as debt on their end
and so that's why it's an attractive strategy for them
I have done it before and it's not really for me
but a lot of people in in the marketplace do it and
and more power to them
if that's a strategy that works for them
and of course
I'm always willing to help a client with it
if that's the strategy they want to do
as long as they understand the pros and cons of it
which again
we're not going to talk about in this episode
No.9 I believe
I'm seeing this a lot
homes under 16 square feet are struggling to sell
unless they are priced aggressively
so that under 16 square foot
data point whatever you whatever you wanna call it
homes under 16 square feet
that's like no man's land right
cause you're not
that's like first time home buyer range right
because if you're a step up buyer
if you're someone that you know
you bought your first home
and now you're looking to move up to your next home
typically you're gonna be looking for something that's more
you know probably at least 2,000 square feet right
generally speaking
if you're a first time home buyer you know 1,300 1,400
1,500 1,600 square feet typically works
but first time home buyers
don't have any money right now
so it's just really hard right now
if you're trying to sell a home like that
you have to be prepared
you have to think who is going to buy this home okay
if it's an investor there's
a strategy for pricing and marketing a home to an
investor if it's a first time home buyer
that's a different strategy
if it's a step up buyer
that's a different strategy and a lot of again
a lot of sellers
are not understanding the market right now
and they are not thinking about it like a buyer okay
so really those smaller homes
unless they are priced aggressively
they are just struggling to sell
and it's not even like when I said smaller homes
but I'm talking about homes that can be as
as large as 16 square feet
that is considered a smaller home right now
that's that's well below the average
so this is something you have to be prepared for
if you're if you're trying to sell a home at that size
price is going to be an even more
substantial factor than it is for a normal home and
and price is always a substantial factor
but it's really really substantial
for homes that size
because you're generally competing for
first time home buyers
maybe investors as well depending on the property
but you're pretty much not gonna have too many step up
buyers that are gonna be
buying homes that size right now
No. 10 and this is my last one
and and this kind of piggybacks a little bit off of
of a buyers being selective and picky
but it's kind of the the opposite
end of the spectrwhich is that
buyers
are just struggling to figure out what they want right
and often times they just have unrealistic expectations
and I've I've had this happen more
the past year
and the past few months than I've ever happened in my
I've ever had in my entire career
and that is buyers
reaching out to me
I meet with them they become a client
you know we do all the paperwork
we start a search
we're looking maybe do a few showings
and they just ghost me and that is I
I can't tell you how unusual that is
but I think what it is
and again they're ghosting me
so I don't know exactly
I don't know precisely why it is
so again this is
this is a a vibes thing
not a data thing but if I had to guess
what I believe that that is going on is that
they realize that their expectations were unrealistic
that what they were looking for doesn't exist
and they
they're just giving up
just losing heart and just being like
I can't I don't even want to communicate with
with Stan or with the realtor anymore
because I'm just so discouraged
and I know from talking to some people that
that haven't ghosted me
that that they do feel like that
so I know that sentiment is out there
and I would just like to say please don't do that
don't just let the agent know right
let me know let your agent know
that that you've lost heart
that you're giving up don't
don't just ghost them right
that's just lousy for everyone
you don't like to be ghosted
we don't like to be ghosted
we're we're people too you know
so I just wanna I just wanna put that out there
but it's a tough time to be a buyer or a seller
it's a nobody market it's not a clear cut buyers market
and it's certainly not a sellers market
it is a nobody market right now
and we just have to be realistic about our expectations
if you're buying or if you're selling
both parties are struggling with this
buyers and sellers
are both struggling with having realistic expectations
we are in very strange times right now okay
and if we go into a recession
it's gonna get even weirder
particularly if we go into a recession
and mortgage rates don't come down
which it's looking like
that is a very good possibility right now
that would be like
a cataclysmic scenario for real estate
and and we need to be completely
prepared for that to happen
and I already know people that have been laid off
and fired and all sorts of things
so it's coming it's coming
cause we don't even we haven't even seen the impact
of some of the things that have
you know tariffs and whatnot that have been announced
we've yet seen the impact from
these things in the data and in the economy
and if something doesn't change
with regard to those things
we could be in for a lit at the very least
a very lit final six months of the year
so obviously I will let you guys know
all those things that happened
in fact I'm gonna be in DC later this month
we have the what used to be called
the mid year
now called the Realtor legislative meetings
by the way if you're a realtor listening to this
make sure that if you do
if you're going to the DC event
please let me know
so that we can see each other okay
I you know really the
the main purpose of these sorts of events is networking
at the end of the day and there's a lot of sessions
what not but
but I want to make sure I'm networking
with as many people as possible
but we will be meeting with
with various legislators
let legislators from South Carolina
they're in DC and and this should be a
should be a really informative time
I'm fascinated really
really fascinated to see how that goes
and I'm really excited
to kind of see what how different
DC is from what it was like last year when we went
so it'll be interesting
I'll keep you guys abreast of all of that
but that's a wrap for today
thank you guys so much for watching or listening
all of my contact info is in the show notes
if you need to reach out to me
for any of your real estate needs
please like rate review subscribe
all of those good things with regard to the show
and we will talk again next time!