(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) What happens when a woman reports being raped?

Inside a program designed to protect her?

What happens when staff, the very people charged

with her safety, defend the accused?

Because that's his girlfriend.

In this episode of Top Priority Chronicles, I

take you behind the doors of a housing

program for clients struggling with mental illness and

addiction, where I serve as a social worker

and advocate.

When my client bravely came forward, it wasn't

just her voice that was tested.

It was the system, the staff, and our

standards.

This story isn't just about what happened between

two people.

It's about what happens when silence from professionals

speak louder than the victim.

Because even in a relationship, no still means

no.

And if we don't protect the most vulnerable

among us, then what are we even doing

here?

Hello, and thank you for chiming in for

another episode of Top Priority Chronicles.

My name is Jamie Carr.

I'm an investigator here in the state of

Oregon, and it is a pleasure to be

your host once again.

In this episode, I am dealing with a

case that proceeds my investigation business.

This case came along while I was working

as a case manager in a local nonprofit

program that helped clients stay housed.

This specific case came as a result of

me being a case manager of a young

woman.

This young woman got involved in a romantic

relationship with another male client of our program.

On one particular morning, I went to visit

her, and the only thing I remember her

saying to me that day is, he raped

me, Jamie.

I was frozen in place because I didn't

know how to respond.

And then I immediately asked her who.

She gave me a name, and I asked,

when did this happen?

And she gave me the time frame.

I immediately just asked her if I could

give her a hug, and I just held

her in my arms, and I let her

just crumble.

And I just let her be vulnerable, and

I just tried to support her the best

I can in the moment.

Immediately, I wanted, as an advocate and protector,

you want to provide for your clients.

You want to protect your clients.

But most times, you cannot protect your clients

from real life.

And so the best I could do was

provide solace in that moment.

I let her know that I would have

to report the incident, and I would have

to make an incident report for the program,

and report it to staff.

And we usually had a morning staff meeting,

which you staffed complicated clients or complicated issues.

So this was indeed a complicated issue.

And immediately, I am just frozen in the

moment because this is not something that I

really wanted to deal with.

But at the end of the day, it

was something that was pressing and urgent in

nature.

So it needed to be dealt with immediately.

Of course, I brought it to our morning

staff meeting.

And needless to say, maybe it was my

reservation of even wanting to bring up the

issue.

But the staff counselor of the male client

was immediately defensive, immediately gave excuses as to

why we could not believe the young lady.

And needless to say, I was already emotionally

involved.

And so I was immediately emotionally responsive.

But I was able to sit in the

moment, but my body, I can tell, responded.

And all I could do was really advocate

for my client the best possible by saying,

it doesn't matter if this person is in

a relationship with this person.

It doesn't matter even if she made up

with him the very next day.

It doesn't matter if she doesn't want to

press charges.

If a client reports this is what happened,

we have to take their word for it,

and we have to move forward accordingly.

And so that was my stance.

And at the end of the day, we

had to leave it up to management and

let management move forward with that issue.

But irregardless of how they moved forward, this

was, and it is a still big issue

in our community around women reporting rape and

the systems in which they have to report

the rape to, or the people they have

to report against, start to then force them

to prove their prove the guilt of the

accuser other than more than just telling their

story and providing evidence of what they have

of what happened.

So in no way is this something to

bash men or bash anyone really.

And this isn't about women who make up

stories and that are lying.

This isn't a what if scenario.

This is a, our investigation showed that she

was not making up the story.

The gentleman that she was in a relationship

with also collaborated, elaborated on the issue, and

he didn't see it as rape.

But again, they could agree on key issues

on the situation.

And so therefore, in our investigation, we found

that she did accurately report.

She did not want to get the police

involved.

And she was really adamant, just wanting to

be upfront about what happened.

And as a staff, we needed to move

forward on that regardless of what our personal

stance was.

We need to follow agency protocol and procedure.

And so I just say that to say

because oftentimes we can find ourselves having to

protect the agency will maybe stand against what

we personally believe.

And I think that is to be questioned

because even if it goes against policy, I

think at the very least, it deserves a

conversation behind the scenes with staff.

So even if we agree to disagree, we

have a basis on which to disagree instead

of walking away with our concerns not being

heard.

And just kind of in a sense, building

resentments against issues, not being able to be

ironed out.

So it's in the best interest of our

clients to stand up and advocate for them

behind the scenes.

But it also becomes a tool for us

as counselors to be able to wear the

advocacy hat and know what that means.

A lot of times advocacy hat doesn't mean

just accepting the status quo.

Most times being an advocate means that you

push back against the status quo.

And that's in this position what I was

attempting to do, not to be a problem

or to cause any conflict.

And in my eyes, it was to resolve

the conflict with the young girl feeling in

a sense, guilting herself because the system and

no one else was going to hold this

young man accountable.

One of the key defenses the male staff

gave to defend his male client was that

the female client was his girlfriend and that

they made up and they were still being

seen around with each other.

And for me, that spoke volumes.

That said to me that because she was

his girlfriend and because they had been seen

together that her body was his and that

he cannot or that others weren't willing to

hold him accountable if he had committed a

crime against the young lady because her making

up with him meant that she wasn't serious

or that she didn't mean it.

And in no way, I thought that that

meant that.

So I really pushed back against the staff's

defense.

And I had to just remind us as

a whole that no means no.

And even if you've said yes before, if

you say no on the 100th time, no

still means no.

And at the end of the day, he

made a convincing argument.

I made my convincing argument and leadership decided

to go.

I wanted him evicted.

The other guy wanted him to stay.

Leadership ended up allowing him to stay with

warning.

So I think that went a lot to

say about leadership.

But at the end of the day, what

I also recall in that moment is that

it felt like there were only two staff

when there was a whole room of counselors

in the room.

But it was he was advocating for his

client and I was advocating for my client.

I didn't hear any other clients having any

feelings about it.

And usually all discussions are open for staff

to have comment.

And I can't say I remember everything word

for word, but I don't remember other staff

commenting in about that, which was really concerning

to me as a person and as a

counselor.

The internal weight of advocating while others shifted

comfortably, just afraid to rock the boat, just

made me feel uncomfortable to be in that

environment.

So, you know, eventually the young lady, you

know, ended up leaving, you know, ending the

relationship with the young man in the long,

you know, in the long haul.

But it was still a tense moment and

an issue, an important issue that got brought

to the limelight that I thought was important

enough to broadcast here, because we all have

power.

And as women, just because we choose to

be in a relationship with a man does

not mean we defer our power to them.

We still ultimately have the final say over

our body, whether yes or whether no.

And the men in our lives, whether they

be strangers or whether they be well known

and well loved by us, should always be

willing to honor and respect our choice.

So I say this to say that as

women, we are the most vulnerable in our

society most times.

I don't want to get into the dynamics

of this and who's that and who can

be the most evil and who can shell

out the most dirt.

Really, you know, women and especially women who

have mental health issues or physical health issues

are the most vulnerable in our society.

And I think it is, it behooves us

as a community to work together to protect

the most vulnerable of the vulnerable.

So without, you know, trying to get in

a big debate about who's wrong and who's

right, who's the more vulnerable, who deserves to

be protected and who doesn't, I say all

deserve to be protected.

But when you do the wrong thing, I

think all deserve to be held accountable as

well.

So with that being said, I just want

to reiterate that being in relationship does not

give another person ownership of your rights to

your body or of your power or of

your energy unless you give that away.

And I want to be real clear that

as women, we need to be aware of

our power.

We need to own our power and be

aware of when we are giving it away.

And also not be afraid to stand up

for holding someone accountable, even if it means

recalling or recasting and reliving some of the

most traumatic times in our lives.

People may not agree with us.

We may not get the response we want,

but at the very least you stood up

for you.

And in this day and age, that's valuable.

That means you love yourself enough that you'll

be willing to go to hell and high

water in public, drag whether found right or

wrong, just to show that I'm going to

stand up for accountability.

I could start calling out systems that drop

the ball, but at the end of the

day, it's not really about systems.

It really is about, it starts with each

one of us and collectively as a whole.

If we hold ourselves accountable, we don't have

to have a system to hold accountable because

it starts with us.

So we start being the model we want

to see.

Not to give myself a pat on the

back or to say that I did anything

particularly exceptional, but I just want to say

for service providers, if you are providing for

your client and they drop heavy shit in

your lap, don't be afraid to stand up

for them.

Don't be afraid to push back for them,

even if it might give you a reputation,

even if it might give you side eyes

or people that disagree with your point.

I think at the end of the day,

sometimes especially the most vulnerable of the vulnerable,

they don't have family, they don't have friends,

and most times they don't even have service

providers that believe them or that will advocate

for them.

And so if you can, even if you're

just the only one, go and be great

at what you do, whatever you choose to

do for your client, be good at it.

Don't half-ass.

They've had that all their lives.

Matter of fact, that's what they've become accustomed

to doing.

But once you advocate for them, a lot

of the times, even if they don't have

a reason to stay clean or get clean,

just having that relationship will allow them to

do something positive for themselves or stay connected

to a service provider, somebody that cares about

them.

And so that can go a long way.

So it doesn't matter what position, whether you're

a service provider, if you're an attorney, if

you are an investigator, if you are a

jail clerk, if you're a CO, a PO,

for those on probation officer, parole officers, correctional

officers, and I'm speaking because these are the

folks that I work with, but you can

be in real estate, you can be in

financial business, you can be in banking, it

doesn't matter your industry.

We all are advocates for people at some

point, whether it be our own children, our

own family, and the goal is to go

for it wholeheartedly, stand up for somebody else

in a way that you will stand up

for yourself.

So with that being said, I just want

to thank you for chiming in for this

episode.

If you have not already, please, please subscribe.

And I want to leave you with three

takeaways.

Takeaway number one is that all good leaders

must know that silence only protects the predators.

So the longer you take to hold those

who are offending accountable, the sooner, the more

you increase your risk and increase liability, and

you increase the chances of something, waiting for

something volatile to occur.

Number two, consent is not permanent.

So if you've given, or if a person

has given consent once, it does not automatically

assume on the next occasion that consent is

automatic.

That must be given each time.

Consent must be mutual.

Can't just be one-sided.

And number three, believe survivors, investigate their claims,

uphold their dignity.

Every person deserves the respect of holding their

word at face value and investigating and seeing

their claims through.

So I just say that to say that

if sometimes a big claim may mean trouble

for your agency or trouble that you have

to sort through to work things out, at

the end of the day, it's worth it.

And it leads integrity to the agency that

is willing and able to see all claims

through.

And so each person deserves that.

And if you can give that to your

clients, then it should also make staff feel

very comfortable knowing that all claims will be

investigated and hopefully will create a sense of

safety amongst the clientele and the staff and

the agency overall.

So I just want to thank you all

again for listening.

And I also want to list a couple

of resources that I think are important for

folks who are, who may be experiencing any

such incidents of rape or anything of domestic

violence.

I want to give you the National Domestic

Violence Hotline phone number, which is 1-800

-799-SAFE or 1-800-799-7233.

You can also find them at the hotline,

one word, thehotline.org.

That is the National Domestic Violence Hotline.

If you are experiencing domestic violence in any

capacity, I encourage you to reach out for

support.

Even if it's before you're ready to leave

or before you're ready to make a report,

always reach out and talk to somebody and

get support.

RAINN, which is Rape, Abuse, and Incest National

Network, that phone number is 1-800-656

-HOPE or 1-800-656-4673.

Their online presence or website is rainn.org.

If you are experiencing rape, abuse, or incest,

I encourage you to reach out for support.

Even if you may never be ready to

tell your story, I encourage you to reach

out for support just to build you up,

to help you know that you are worthy

and to allow you to be heard, to

be seen, and for you to be cared

for.

This is a heavy subject and one that

is really personal for me.

I just want to thank everyone for taking

time.

For those who maybe this may have triggered

or you'd like to share resources or you'd

like to share your own personal story, please

DM me.

Feel free to share your story.

I'd love to hear more about it, hear

about what you did, what happened to you.

If you have a story you want to

share, I'd love to hear about it.

I just thank you for taking the time

to see this all the way through and

hearing about this case that I experienced.

I just hope to encourage you, if you've

ever went through something like this, to know

it wasn't your fault.

Also, if you're ever along the path of

helping support someone who has gone through this,

believe them without questioning and just support them

the best that you can.

A lot of times that doesn't mean asking

what happened.

That's something I forgot to mention early on,

but one thing I did not ask the

young lady when she told me is what

happened.

It's because I know that she's going to

have to report, repeat that.

Our staff is going to want to ask

her that.

They're going to hear it separate from me.

The police, the hospital, wherever she's going to

go, they're going to ask her what happened.

I did not want to make her feel

like I wanted to hear her story and

decide whether I believed her.

I just believed her right off the bat.

Once the agency told me I needed to

find out the whole story, I went back

for the whole story.

Then she was prepared and had time to

think about the story before she gave it

to me.

I just want to encourage you all to

be mindful of when you're approaching traumatic situations

and traumatic people who have been traumatized by

a situation or circumstance, and to maybe even

do some research on your approach, a trauma

-informed approach before talking to people who have

been impacted by trauma.

I thank you again for your time.

This has been a pleasure for you chiming

in for this.

I hope to see you for the next

episode.