00:00:13:14 - 00:00:15:15 Hello and welcome to The Amazing,

00:00:15:15 - 00:00:18:20 the show for acquisition entrepreneurs, search funders and echo

00:00:18:20 - 00:00:22:18 builders across the UK, Europe and beyond and beyond.

00:00:22:19 - 00:00:28:15 Indeed, this week, as our interview with an emerging searcher ventures

00:00:28:15 - 00:00:32:06 into relatively new territory for the search fund model, the United Arab

00:00:32:06 - 00:00:36:06 Emirates very excited to be getting into this discussion in a moment with my guest.

00:00:36:06 - 00:00:40:08 But before we do, we have a quick update on a couple of items from this week's News

00:00:40:08 - 00:00:41:29 in the World of search funds.

00:00:41:29 - 00:00:45:10 Firstly, in the UK, we've been delighted to see the launch

00:00:45:10 - 00:00:49:10 of Frontier Development Capital's regional SME debt fund,

00:00:49:13 - 00:00:52:13 which is a little bit different too, insomuch as it's a division of Mercia

00:00:52:17 - 00:00:56:23 Asset Management, an 80 million fund backed by West Midlands Pension Fund

00:00:56:23 - 00:01:00:16 and the British Business Bank, each having committed 40 million

00:01:00:19 - 00:01:03:01 with the intention to serve

00:01:03:04 - 00:01:05:20 a number of applications, but including which

00:01:05:20 - 00:01:09:23 SMB succession M&A in the regions, particularly in the lower quantum

00:01:09:23 - 00:01:13:21 deal ranges, which we know are pretty hard to get finance for these days.

00:01:13:21 - 00:01:17:29 So delighted to see that and more info in the show notes.

00:01:17:32 - 00:01:22:00 And at the other end of the spectrum on the equity funding side, in Europe,

00:01:22:00 - 00:01:24:05 we have Ithaca Capital Partners

00:01:24:05 - 00:01:28:00 declaring that they've already returned 40% of their fund

00:01:28:02 - 00:01:29:32 within the first year of the holding period year

00:01:29:32 - 00:01:31:27 for after three years of allocation.

00:01:31:27 - 00:01:34:31 So congratulations to Michelle Welters, Frank

00:01:34:31 - 00:01:37:31 Gomez, Linda Arrow and all of the Ithaca team.

00:01:38:00 - 00:01:40:04 So our guest today is Adam.

00:01:40:04 - 00:01:43:19 Jan Siracusa, a founder of Oryx Legacy,

00:01:43:19 - 00:01:48:25 one of the very first such funds focusing on acquiring SMEs in the UAE.

00:01:48:27 - 00:01:52:20 Adam brings experience from top consulting firms like BCG,

00:01:52:23 - 00:01:56:05 where he worked extensively in Dubai, focusing on strategy

00:01:56:05 - 00:01:57:24 and economic development,

00:01:57:24 - 00:02:02:04 as well as working for a large investment house for five years.

00:02:02:04 - 00:02:03:18 He's now leveraging

00:02:03:18 - 00:02:07:12 all of the insight that he gained during that journey to build our legacy.

00:02:07:15 - 00:02:10:20 It is an absolutely fascinating story about spotting

00:02:10:20 - 00:02:14:08 opportunities in a rapidly evolving emerging market.

00:02:14:10 - 00:02:17:06 Adam, thanks so much for joining us today.

00:02:17:06 - 00:02:18:02 So thanks for having me here.

00:02:18:02 - 00:02:19:19 I'm looking forward to it.

00:02:19:19 - 00:02:22:25 Lovely to hear about a bit about your back story for the listeners

00:02:22:25 - 00:02:27:06 and viewers and what brought you here, but particularly, what was the catalyst

00:02:27:06 - 00:02:30:29 that made you leap from consulting to becoming a searcher?

00:02:30:31 - 00:02:35:03 What made you want to operate and acquire in Smee?

00:02:35:05 - 00:02:35:29 Yeah, sure. Happy.

00:02:35:29 - 00:02:41:05 Just after finishing undergrad in the U.S., I, I joined what was monitor

00:02:41:05 - 00:02:41:29 and then became owner.

00:02:41:29 - 00:02:45:22 Deloitte was a consultant for about four years there.

00:02:45:24 - 00:02:47:20 Towards the end of that, like most consultants,

00:02:47:20 - 00:02:51:03 started to think through business school and was applying to business school

00:02:51:06 - 00:02:54:08 and first learned of the concept of a search funnel while

00:02:54:08 - 00:02:58:11 going through that application process thought it seemed like a cool idea.

00:02:58:14 - 00:03:03:14 I always knew I struggled with the with 0 to 1,

00:03:03:17 - 00:03:06:11 but I enjoyed the idea of going from 1 to 100.

00:03:06:11 - 00:03:07:18 It's a felt media to me.

00:03:07:18 - 00:03:10:18 If I fit more my skill set

00:03:10:24 - 00:03:13:15 while in business school more or less confirmed, the tech

00:03:13:15 - 00:03:17:27 in that angle really wasn't for me.

00:03:17:30 - 00:03:20:03 But I also realized I wanted to be back in the Middle East,

00:03:20:03 - 00:03:21:13 so I'd grown up in the Middle East.

00:03:21:13 - 00:03:23:15 And frankly, I just enjoy the challenge

00:03:23:15 - 00:03:26:08 of being in the Middle East or in other emerging markets.

00:03:26:08 - 00:03:29:33 And so I came back to the Middle East post HBS with BCG,

00:03:29:33 - 00:03:33:23 was here for was there for a year and a half.

00:03:33:25 - 00:03:35:13 I think there at the time,

00:03:35:13 - 00:03:39:07 while I was familiar with the search fund concept, it was still tricky.

00:03:39:07 - 00:03:42:07 In an emerging market, there weren't

00:03:42:13 - 00:03:45:23 a lot of funders that would look at search in the UAE.

00:03:45:25 - 00:03:48:05 It were so the time wasn't quite right.

00:03:48:05 - 00:03:51:05 I was thinking at one point of going self-funded instead.

00:03:51:08 - 00:03:53:10 But that creates, I think, an emerging market like them

00:03:53:10 - 00:03:57:23 and these other complications that are happy to get into.

00:03:57:25 - 00:04:00:21 And so ended up joining a family owned investment

00:04:00:21 - 00:04:04:27 firm called Safran, which is a you know, they do private equity in real estate,

00:04:04:27 - 00:04:07:20 primarily in Western markets, but also the Middle East.

00:04:07:20 - 00:04:10:20 And so I was there for about five years.

00:04:10:27 - 00:04:13:27 And that also, I think, proved to be a very good education,

00:04:13:32 - 00:04:18:32 not just on the investing side, but also the operations of investing.

00:04:19:00 - 00:04:20:26 So my role there was as chief of staff

00:04:20:26 - 00:04:24:04 to the CEO of the family, owner of the firm.

00:04:24:07 - 00:04:27:20 So I was working very closely with him on how do you think about running

00:04:27:20 - 00:04:28:31 a investments firm?

00:04:28:31 - 00:04:35:00 And I think the way he like to put it was he wants his firm to be

00:04:35:00 - 00:04:38:16 an investment firm where investing is the investing is the product.

00:04:38:18 - 00:04:43:09 And that meant taking a much more active, involved operational role

00:04:43:12 - 00:04:46:06 in both the portfolio companies and the day to day management.

00:04:46:06 - 00:04:50:12 So I think that just seeing that not purely from the investing side

00:04:50:12 - 00:04:55:04 but on the operations side and pairing that with a strategy consulting toolkit

00:04:55:07 - 00:04:57:02 ended up being the

00:04:57:05 - 00:05:00:05 big one, hopefully, as was the right formula.

00:05:00:11 - 00:05:03:01 Yeah, it sounds like a great way to cut your teeth

00:05:03:01 - 00:05:06:28 if you're involved institution and investing institution

00:05:06:28 - 00:05:12:03 where they take an operational involvement in their portfolio companies somehow.

00:05:12:06 - 00:05:15:09 Could you speak a little bit to some of the experiences you had rolling

00:05:15:09 - 00:05:19:03 your sleeves up and going beyond the investing and in the operational side?

00:05:19:06 - 00:05:19:24 Yeah, sure.

00:05:19:24 - 00:05:23:00 So we were so I was more involved in the operations of the firm itself.

00:05:23:00 - 00:05:26:29 So involved, you know, everything from,

00:05:26:32 - 00:05:30:32 you know, it would vary on a daily basis but at times would be involved in setting

00:05:30:32 - 00:05:31:28 what is the what

00:05:31:28 - 00:05:36:10 should be the firm's multiyear strategy, which would involve getting into both.

00:05:36:13 - 00:05:38:00 What what do we see?

00:05:38:00 - 00:05:39:16 What's the growth plan?

00:05:39:16 - 00:05:42:01 How does that link to the financial

00:05:42:01 - 00:05:45:32 the financial aspect of how we see that performing?

00:05:46:00 - 00:05:46:15 So that was

00:05:46:15 - 00:05:50:12 one side and I call that strategy and best of

00:05:50:15 - 00:05:53:27 all, so got involved a lot in how we manage our board, how we knew just

00:05:53:28 - 00:05:59:18 our board, which I think is always useful in any an institutional environment,

00:05:59:21 - 00:06:02:21 heavily involved in a lot of hiring.

00:06:02:25 - 00:06:06:10 So both the very senior and sometimes at the junior level,

00:06:06:13 - 00:06:08:20 which again useful in any in

00:06:08:20 - 00:06:11:30 any context, I think depends on the type of company.

00:06:11:33 - 00:06:15:21 But then also just day to day operations for a organization

00:06:15:29 - 00:06:18:06 that spans multiple, you know, a few countries.

00:06:18:06 - 00:06:22:02 So we had a the CEO of the group that runs

00:06:22:05 - 00:06:24:13 a few different businesses.

00:06:24:13 - 00:06:27:30 You know it's he he comes from a multi

00:06:27:32 - 00:06:31:00 multi business family and just is a fantastic guy

00:06:31:00 - 00:06:35:14 but he's also very heavily stretched So that created space for me to in essence

00:06:35:14 - 00:06:39:09 get involved in making decisions, pushing,

00:06:39:12 - 00:06:42:14 pushing different different agendas or different different areas.

00:06:42:14 - 00:06:45:14 The focus within the company just and serving

00:06:45:14 - 00:06:49:21 kind of as his representative to get stuff done which

00:06:49:24 - 00:06:52:00 and the the area that would vary on any given

00:06:52:00 - 00:06:55:15 sometimes would be how do we restructure our investment piece.

00:06:55:18 - 00:06:56:27 Are some of the strategy work?

00:06:56:27 - 00:07:00:02 How do we bring a portfolio company in the US to the Middle East?

00:07:00:05 - 00:07:06:09 It would be called project would very on a weekly basis, Daily or weekly basis?

00:07:06:12 - 00:07:07:14 Sure, yes.

00:07:07:14 - 00:07:10:24 Sounds like a interesting way to get exposure to different

00:07:10:27 - 00:07:13:17 complex business or complex group of businesses.

00:07:13:17 - 00:07:14:23 So let's just roll back slightly.

00:07:14:23 - 00:07:16:02 So you left BCG.

00:07:16:02 - 00:07:21:04 You were at that time interested in search, but found the ecosystem in the VC

00:07:21:05 - 00:07:25:09 a little immature and so spent five years at Stanford.

00:07:25:09 - 00:07:27:26 But you mentioned that you at one point

00:07:27:26 - 00:07:32:01 thought about going the self-funded route, which brings its own challenges.

00:07:32:01 - 00:07:34:03 We want to unpack that for us.

00:07:34:03 - 00:07:34:20 Yeah, sure.

00:07:34:20 - 00:07:38:15 So I think this links to the to the

00:07:38:17 - 00:07:41:28 so it works very well in a lot of Western markets.

00:07:41:28 - 00:07:44:06 I think I think in the Middle East

00:07:44:06 - 00:07:48:33 where the UAE specifically, we're a very new market research

00:07:49:02 - 00:07:52:31 and one of the biggest challenges in this market is access credit.

00:07:52:31 - 00:07:58:00 And so knowing those two things, if you go go a layer down in a market

00:07:58:00 - 00:08:00:04 where people haven't heard of search

00:08:00:04 - 00:08:03:07 and the market less, when you approach someone to try to buy a business

00:08:03:07 - 00:08:05:09 when they're not used to selling,

00:08:05:09 - 00:08:08:00 one of the first things they'll want to see is, you know,

00:08:08:00 - 00:08:13:08 show me a bank account with the full amount of this transaction sitting in it.

00:08:13:11 - 00:08:15:10 They'll still just start with that point and then they'll say, Great.

00:08:15:10 - 00:08:17:30 All right, let's continue the conversation now. That's great.

00:08:17:30 - 00:08:21:22 If you're a very liquid family office or or individual

00:08:21:22 - 00:08:25:11 that actually has you know, these five, $10 million sitting in a bank account.

00:08:25:14 - 00:08:27:08 But frankly, most people do not.

00:08:27:08 - 00:08:29:29 And so

00:08:29:32 - 00:08:32:17 that as well, credit is very tough in this market.

00:08:32:17 - 00:08:37:15 And that means if you if you're going to

00:08:37:18 - 00:08:39:15 it's just hard, hard to obtain.

00:08:39:15 - 00:08:43:26 And so and it's even harder if you're a self-funded individual

00:08:43:29 - 00:08:45:03 with no money in the bank.

00:08:45:03 - 00:08:46:18 People just aren't going to take you seriously.

00:08:46:18 - 00:08:48:14 And the

00:08:48:14 - 00:08:48:33 if you look at this

00:08:48:33 - 00:08:52:24 market there, especially in the UAE, where there are a lot of people moving here,

00:08:52:27 - 00:08:53:31 there are a lot of people,

00:08:53:31 - 00:08:56:31 you know, just I'd say desktop shopping around for businesses.

00:08:57:01 - 00:09:00:32 A lot of owners are uncomfortable with someone showing up saying,

00:09:01:02 - 00:09:01:26 I'm going to borrow it.

00:09:01:26 - 00:09:02:23 And how,

00:09:02:23 - 00:09:05:23 you know, I don't have the money right now there, I can take you seriously.

00:09:05:29 - 00:09:11:08 So I think the one big part of it is if you want to be taken seriously,

00:09:11:10 - 00:09:12:24 you need to have

00:09:12:24 - 00:09:14:02 you don't need to have the money in your account

00:09:14:02 - 00:09:15:22 in a fund, in a pure fund structure.

00:09:15:22 - 00:09:22:00 But the closest salt I could get for that was saying I've got a list of backers

00:09:22:00 - 00:09:25:26 that anyone here can diligence very quickly.

00:09:25:26 - 00:09:26:30 They can find their websites,

00:09:26:30 - 00:09:30:21 they can find some of the deals they've done and that helps.

00:09:30:23 - 00:09:35:28 That's called the cleanest solve for credibility that I've been able to find.

00:09:35:31 - 00:09:38:32 So it's you know, it also helps then with approaching

00:09:38:32 - 00:09:42:23 banks and saying, look, I do have institutional backers behind me.

00:09:42:25 - 00:09:46:16 No, we're not going to sign a personal guarantee, but at least I do have

00:09:46:19 - 00:09:50:07 a group of investors behind me that that merits this conversation

00:09:50:07 - 00:09:54:00 getting a bit more credibility than kind of someone just shopping around.

00:09:54:03 - 00:09:57:15 So that's the I think that's one of the big angles here.

00:09:57:18 - 00:09:58:04 Yeah, sure.

00:09:58:04 - 00:10:00:32 And actually quite a chastening process.

00:10:00:32 - 00:10:04:09 I should imagine, finding that the leverage that normally drives

00:10:04:09 - 00:10:08:00 a lot of the returns in its search

00:10:08:00 - 00:10:13:07 maybe isn't as readily available as it would be in Western markets.

00:10:13:10 - 00:10:17:13 Now, you saw the thing with the UAE is the UAE does have government

00:10:17:13 - 00:10:18:23 support programs

00:10:18:23 - 00:10:22:11 that are in fact probably even more generous than in Western markets.

00:10:22:14 - 00:10:26:08 But those are only available, generally speaking, to local nationals

00:10:26:08 - 00:10:30:03 and Emiratis are, give or take, 10% of the country.

00:10:30:03 - 00:10:31:04 Most.

00:10:31:04 - 00:10:34:03 There are the number of big Emirati groups, but

00:10:34:03 - 00:10:37:22 most of the business here is expat dominated, and as an expat,

00:10:37:25 - 00:10:42:03 we don't have access to those programs, at least on the at least on the surface.

00:10:42:03 - 00:10:45:27 And so access to and the banks here

00:10:45:27 - 00:10:49:02 in particular are well known for not lending to Assamese.

00:10:49:05 - 00:10:52:05 So, you know, in any transaction you're probably

00:10:52:12 - 00:10:54:28 you can try with the banks and try to get senior

00:10:54:28 - 00:10:57:01 it's it's a heavy lift

00:10:57:01 - 00:11:00:20 or you're getting most from a non-bank lender

00:11:00:20 - 00:11:03:27 which is as as in most

00:11:03:27 - 00:11:07:29 other markets can be a rather expensive. Yep.

00:11:07:32 - 00:11:10:24 And a little risky in some some some yes.

00:11:10:24 - 00:11:13:13 Yeah. yeah. yeah. Yeah.

00:11:13:13 - 00:11:16:31 So absent the the proof of funds test

00:11:16:31 - 00:11:21:09 then when you're working up to these snobs and they're immediately

00:11:21:09 - 00:11:24:16 saying what we find brokers in the UK say,

00:11:24:19 - 00:11:27:30 show me the money.

00:11:27:32 - 00:11:29:05 Are you finding they're reassured

00:11:29:05 - 00:11:33:02 by the story of your journey.

00:11:33:05 - 00:11:35:18 So. So I think that helps.

00:11:35:18 - 00:11:38:26 I have, I have one thing really working in my favor.

00:11:38:26 - 00:11:41:31 So on the one hand, yes, the being able to say, look,

00:11:41:31 - 00:11:45:29 I've got a I've got an investor list, here's the full investor list.

00:11:45:29 - 00:11:47:07 You can look up all these people.

00:11:47:07 - 00:11:50:07 I think that is on one side that helps.

00:11:50:07 - 00:11:53:09 I think one huge difference in the UK

00:11:53:09 - 00:11:57:13 from other Western markets is that there's no one else doing it here.

00:11:57:16 - 00:12:00:06 And so there's one other there's one other search on active

00:12:00:06 - 00:12:01:03 admin hasn't yet called.

00:12:01:03 - 00:12:05:02 Succession is a great guy and we're what we are, We're friends and we talk a lot.

00:12:05:02 - 00:12:06:14 We talk a lot.

00:12:06:14 - 00:12:08:23 But there's, there's two of us in this market.

00:12:08:23 - 00:12:13:12 And beyond that, there aren't very many people, in fact, very few people

00:12:13:12 - 00:12:18:22 that would even look at SMEs in that kind of traditional search font size.

00:12:18:24 - 00:12:21:24 So for a lot of owners, if you own a business,

00:12:21:26 - 00:12:23:26 you know, in reality your options are pretty limited.

00:12:23:26 - 00:12:26:08 And this is probably one of the

00:12:26:08 - 00:12:28:16 few conversations where someone has actually come up to you

00:12:28:16 - 00:12:31:09 and say, Hey, I'd like to buy your business. So

00:12:31:12 - 00:12:33:27 it's an or at least invest in it.

00:12:33:27 - 00:12:35:07 And I think people,

00:12:35:07 - 00:12:39:16 when when someone is coming up to you or saying, hey, I want to give you money

00:12:39:19 - 00:12:42:06 when that when it hasn't happened before, it happens very rarely.

00:12:42:06 - 00:12:43:26 I think people are just a bit more receptive,

00:12:43:26 - 00:12:46:26 at least for that opening conversation, whether it goes anywhere

00:12:46:33 - 00:12:48:28 totally different, totally different points.

00:12:48:28 - 00:12:53:07 But I think they're at least more willing to have the conversation.

00:12:53:09 - 00:12:55:26 That's really that's really quite

00:12:55:26 - 00:12:59:13 enlightening to think that you're at the kind of crest of a wave.

00:12:59:13 - 00:13:03:14 I mean, when you think about Dubai, I mean, I've been going back and forth

00:13:03:14 - 00:13:07:32 to UAE, Oklahoma, down to Abu Dhabi for

00:13:08:01 - 00:13:12:21 20 years, and it's changed significantly just in those two decades.

00:13:12:23 - 00:13:15:31 I would perhaps have been under the impression

00:13:15:31 - 00:13:21:04 that generational SMEs weren't as abundant

00:13:21:07 - 00:13:22:16 as they are in

00:13:22:16 - 00:13:26:07 in other markets, in more established Western markets,

00:13:26:15 - 00:13:30:02 because the sort of commercialization of the region

00:13:30:05 - 00:13:34:21 hasn't is younger, if you like, hasn't got as much legacy to it.

00:13:34:21 - 00:13:36:02 But that's probably

00:13:36:02 - 00:13:39:17 an absolute mistruth on my part or a misunderstanding on my part.

00:13:39:17 - 00:13:42:26 Having not lifted the veil and looked at whether there are companies

00:13:42:26 - 00:13:47:31 that have got 40, 50 years of heritage that are now, you know, looking to sell.

00:13:48:00 - 00:13:52:09 So so I think the pitch when you're approaching SMB

00:13:52:12 - 00:13:54:30 in the UAE, it's it is slightly different.

00:13:54:30 - 00:13:58:16 You don't have very many businesses with 40 years of heritage, to be honest.

00:13:58:16 - 00:14:00:32 That's that's a bit of a stretch.

00:14:00:32 - 00:14:02:32 And you're right that that is a bit of a difference.

00:14:02:32 - 00:14:05:32 20 years. Yeah, you've got plenty.

00:14:06:00 - 00:14:10:17 I think one big difference here versus Europe is it's

00:14:10:17 - 00:14:14:02 while there are some retirees, for example, the, you know, the silver,

00:14:14:10 - 00:14:17:03 the silver wave retirees wanting to sell,

00:14:17:03 - 00:14:19:13 in reality, that is part of the narrative.

00:14:19:13 - 00:14:21:09 But the other part that's very big in the Middle East

00:14:21:09 - 00:14:24:16 is because it's so expat dominated a lot of folks.

00:14:24:19 - 00:14:27:30 You know, when their kids hit university age, they might want to move back home

00:14:27:30 - 00:14:31:04 to be closer to the family, especially if they've done well.

00:14:31:04 - 00:14:33:05 They've built the business. It's successful.

00:14:33:05 - 00:14:37:08 You know, it's if you're looking at a $15 million payday,

00:14:37:11 - 00:14:38:31 you've done well, your kids are in university.

00:14:38:31 - 00:14:40:30 You can go live very comfortably in Spain,

00:14:40:30 - 00:14:45:01 Italy, Jordan, you know, wherever you were or wherever.

00:14:45:04 - 00:14:50:18 And so the that expat going home theme is actually also quite,

00:14:50:21 - 00:14:51:17 quite a common reason for

00:14:51:17 - 00:14:55:22 wanting to sell, in fact, more so than retirees.

00:14:55:25 - 00:14:58:23 The other common reason I'm finding so far is a lot of owners

00:14:58:23 - 00:15:02:01 that because of the way this economy's built up,

00:15:02:04 - 00:15:06:09 a lot of people have their hands in, you know, five, ten, 15 different pockets.

00:15:06:12 - 00:15:09:30 And quite often they just want to simplify their lives.

00:15:09:32 - 00:15:14:09 They'll say, you know, X, Y, or Z business I own is a perfectly good business.

00:15:14:11 - 00:15:16:29 I just don't have the time to give it the right attention that it needs.

00:15:16:29 - 00:15:19:31 And therefore they'll say, Look, let me sell it.

00:15:19:31 - 00:15:21:15 I can reinvest the cash in the businesses

00:15:21:15 - 00:15:24:17 that I'm really excited about and someone else can grow that.

00:15:24:20 - 00:15:29:13 So I think those two added themes are quite common here.

00:15:29:15 - 00:15:30:00 Amazing.

00:15:30:00 - 00:15:33:32 But maybe they fall down the list of priorities

00:15:33:32 - 00:15:38:13 for kind of motivating sellers in Europe, but for them to be at the top of the list

00:15:38:13 - 00:15:39:11 in the UAE is

00:15:39:11 - 00:15:40:26 it says it says a lot about the way

00:15:40:26 - 00:15:43:05 that the ecosystem there, the economy has evolved.

00:15:43:05 - 00:15:47:19 But to be wanting to focus your portfolio and or

00:15:47:22 - 00:15:51:12 repatriate back to your country of your birth or whatever,

00:15:51:18 - 00:15:56:03 those perhaps hadn't crossed my radar as being compelling events, but that's great.

00:15:56:05 - 00:15:57:18 What a wonderful opportunity.

00:15:57:18 - 00:16:01:08 And if we all now into this sort of like first generation

00:16:01:11 - 00:16:05:05 change of ownership, if you like, from the founder progenitor to the

00:16:05:08 - 00:16:08:31 the new owners and you want to give these liquidity opportunities

00:16:08:31 - 00:16:12:28 to those original founders of that vintage of businesses,

00:16:12:30 - 00:16:16:03 I'm surprised there's only you and Edmund Husseini doing this.

00:16:16:03 - 00:16:19:17 Yeah, it's so there are there's one

00:16:19:17 - 00:16:23:04 or two private equity firms that are in that space there.

00:16:23:06 - 00:16:26:29 But yeah, otherwise it's very limited and it is

00:16:26:32 - 00:16:29:31 it's just limited and it's the and that's why

00:16:29:31 - 00:16:32:31 I mean, to be honest, a lot of owners here haven't even thought about selling.

00:16:33:05 - 00:16:37:27 Now, I do think that that that same trend that in the West of

00:16:37:27 - 00:16:40:10 when people start really approaching retirement age

00:16:40:10 - 00:16:43:14 will they reconsider will will the way pick up pace?

00:16:43:14 - 00:16:44:11 I do think so.

00:16:44:11 - 00:16:47:10 I mean, at the end of the day,

00:16:47:10 - 00:16:51:03 you know, I think I think it could it could certainly be a larger one.

00:16:51:08 - 00:16:52:09 One thing to keep in mind

00:16:52:09 - 00:16:56:07 when talking about the UAE is, you know, how big is this market in general?

00:16:56:09 - 00:16:58:24 And the answer is it's not a very it's not that big of a market.

00:16:58:24 - 00:17:02:17 It's the way I actually looked it up in advance just a bit, just to confirm,

00:17:02:17 - 00:17:05:03 because I say it all the time, but I need to confirm it is

00:17:05:03 - 00:17:07:06 the UAE is basically the Greater London area.

00:17:07:06 - 00:17:11:20 It's in terms of size, it's they're both about 10 to 12 million people there.

00:17:11:20 - 00:17:15:14 Both, give or take, $600 Billion or $600 billion economies.

00:17:15:17 - 00:17:16:32 So the terms of

00:17:16:32 - 00:17:21:33 and they both take about an hour and a half, 2 hours to drive across. So

00:17:22:02 - 00:17:22:26 the way I think about

00:17:22:26 - 00:17:25:26 it is that's kind of what you're dealing with.

00:17:25:27 - 00:17:30:09 But that also means at the small size, it's not very deep.

00:17:30:12 - 00:17:33:26 So you do have to look across sectors,

00:17:33:28 - 00:17:38:06 but you have to bet that in a sector that fit that traditional search one size,

00:17:38:08 - 00:17:40:21 there are maybe four or five businesses per

00:17:40:21 - 00:17:43:26 per sector or per traditional area after that.

00:17:43:26 - 00:17:45:30 Otherwise they're too big or they're too small

00:17:45:30 - 00:17:50:01 and I think that that phenomenon repeats itself quite often.

00:17:50:01 - 00:17:53:21 So it's a tricky market in that way as well.

00:17:53:24 - 00:17:56:12 Quite a concentrated Goldilocks zone then.

00:17:56:12 - 00:17:57:30 Yeah,

00:17:57:30 - 00:18:02:06 finding the perfect business in the vertical of choice or sector of choice.

00:18:02:08 - 00:18:04:20 So clearly you must have had a first mover

00:18:04:20 - 00:18:07:22 advantage then how was that played out?

00:18:07:22 - 00:18:11:26 And maybe it will be a good opportunity to also tell us a bit about our legacy's

00:18:11:29 - 00:18:13:14 thesis specifically

00:18:13:14 - 00:18:16:30 and then how this first mover advantage has been advantageous then.

00:18:16:33 - 00:18:17:15 Yeah, sure.

00:18:17:15 - 00:18:21:01 So it's so the so we launched just over a month ago formally.

00:18:21:01 - 00:18:24:01 I mean, I've been informally raising

00:18:24:01 - 00:18:27:15 raising the money and then speaking to advisory firms for the past year

00:18:27:18 - 00:18:30:17 but formally launched actually literally a month to the day.

00:18:30:17 - 00:18:34:18 So it's it's been a very, very recent

00:18:34:21 - 00:18:37:18 reception so far, has been very positive.

00:18:37:18 - 00:18:39:17 I mean, I just got back to two meetings today.

00:18:39:17 - 00:18:41:32 I think I've probably got

00:18:41:32 - 00:18:43:31 I've got multiple deals

00:18:43:31 - 00:18:47:16 in the pipeline that I think are interesting and zero that

00:18:47:19 - 00:18:49:15 I need to now spend some time running numbers,

00:18:49:15 - 00:18:53:10 running numbers through to actually take to take the investor base and kick around.

00:18:53:10 - 00:18:58:12 But, you know, I think there is there's a lot of opportunity here,

00:18:58:15 - 00:19:00:08 but they don't they're not in one sector.

00:19:00:08 - 00:19:05:20 They do span multiple sectors and it's kind of one or two per sector.

00:19:05:23 - 00:19:08:01 The thesis is

00:19:08:01 - 00:19:13:09 so it is it's a UAE focused thesis and in part that links to, I think the

00:19:13:12 - 00:19:16:31 the macroeconomic trend that you see, which is the UAE in general

00:19:16:31 - 00:19:22:19 is one of the most rapidly growing markets on the planet today.

00:19:22:22 - 00:19:23:26 You know, it's

00:19:23:26 - 00:19:26:27 we're not growing at 10% akin to some true emerging markets,

00:19:26:27 - 00:19:30:03 but the market here is growing at a steady 4 to 5%,

00:19:30:03 - 00:19:34:33 which for a market with the per capita income of the UAE is quite rare.

00:19:35:03 - 00:19:36:19 And you do feel it when you're here.

00:19:36:19 - 00:19:41:12 It's you know, there are cranes operating quite literally everywhere.

00:19:41:14 - 00:19:44:06 And I saw stuff the other day and there were a thousand people

00:19:44:06 - 00:19:47:06 moving to Dubai every day on average this year,

00:19:47:13 - 00:19:51:11 which is the equivalent to about 8% of the city.

00:19:51:19 - 00:19:54:11 The city growing at 8% a year, I was going to say

00:19:54:11 - 00:19:57:21 is Greater London

00:19:57:23 - 00:20:00:20 moving over more of our own creation

00:20:00:20 - 00:20:03:27 without chancellor taxing us to the hilt?

00:20:03:29 - 00:20:04:18 Exactly.

00:20:04:18 - 00:20:05:25 And I will say it's

00:20:05:25 - 00:20:09:14 which I think speaks to the second point about the UAE, which is the UAE.

00:20:09:17 - 00:20:12:19 Part of the story with the UAE is that we are quite often

00:20:12:19 - 00:20:16:19 a net beneficiary when there is instability elsewhere in the world.

00:20:16:26 - 00:20:19:26 So the you know,

00:20:19:28 - 00:20:23:12 when when markets are calm, the UAE sometimes slows down.

00:20:23:14 - 00:20:26:29 But since 20 since 2020, you've had COVID

00:20:26:32 - 00:20:31:06 and the UAE responded very effectively, which pulls in a lot of people.

00:20:31:09 - 00:20:34:28 You had the Beirut port explosion, which attracted

00:20:34:31 - 00:20:39:30 a huge share of Lebanon's so called skilled diaspora that was living there.

00:20:39:33 - 00:20:42:12 I mean, the most well-known is the Russia

00:20:42:12 - 00:20:45:12 Ukraine conflict, which drew in.

00:20:45:12 - 00:20:48:12 I mean, hundreds of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians to the country.

00:20:48:15 - 00:20:49:24 And nowadays.

00:20:49:24 - 00:20:53:09 Exactly. It's there's been a massive influx

00:20:53:11 - 00:20:54:26 of individuals out of the UK.

00:20:54:26 - 00:20:58:26 And it's been it's and you see it in the press, everything from your multibillion

00:20:58:26 - 00:21:03:10 dollar family office that's leaving London and domicile in Abu Dhabi and

00:21:03:13 - 00:21:06:29 and Monaco or something to even you're

00:21:06:31 - 00:21:12:16 you know you're individuals that are have, you know 5 to $20 million or pounds.

00:21:12:18 - 00:21:12:28 Yeah.

00:21:12:28 - 00:21:16:21 You have that that whole range is moving here and each of those

00:21:16:29 - 00:21:19:18 you know, they're each of those movements are a function

00:21:19:18 - 00:21:21:11 not of what's happened to the UAE necessarily,

00:21:21:11 - 00:21:23:19 but what's happening in a host country.

00:21:23:19 - 00:21:26:33 But the UAE, because it's easier to because they've simplified

00:21:26:33 - 00:21:27:24 visa processes.

00:21:27:24 - 00:21:31:21 So if you need permanent residency, it can take years in a Western country

00:21:31:21 - 00:21:32:20 to get.

00:21:32:20 - 00:21:36:02 It takes a week here, but one week and you're done.

00:21:36:04 - 00:21:38:33 You know, policy simplification, which made it easy to operate

00:21:38:33 - 00:21:43:33 here, has been a huge net positive for entrepreneurs,

00:21:44:01 - 00:21:47:09 wealthy individuals, businesspeople have been willing to move here.

00:21:47:12 - 00:21:50:22 And so the Oryx thesis is

00:21:50:25 - 00:21:53:20 a tapping into that macro trend,

00:21:53:20 - 00:21:56:06 that this is a place, it's growing.

00:21:56:06 - 00:22:00:16 And the the ingredients underpinning that that openness to the world,

00:22:00:18 - 00:22:04:18 that flexibility are and are enduring

00:22:04:18 - 00:22:09:09 because that's the genesis of why of what the country's always done.

00:22:09:12 - 00:22:12:02 So I like the macro thesis and then

00:22:12:02 - 00:22:17:00 and then you go micro on a sector by sector basis and here

00:22:17:02 - 00:22:19:28 I think there the thesis is to target

00:22:19:28 - 00:22:22:02 opportunities to tap into that

00:22:22:02 - 00:22:26:08 kind of ongoing population growth, ongoing demand growth in this market.

00:22:26:08 - 00:22:28:22 So nothing, nothing terribly complicated.

00:22:28:22 - 00:22:32:20 It's, you know, there is a need for education, there's a need for health care.

00:22:32:20 - 00:22:36:23 There's you know, this this market is very tourism dependent.

00:22:36:25 - 00:22:39:20 As more businesses move here, they need business services, business

00:22:39:20 - 00:22:42:28 support, families need home services to take care of their houses.

00:22:42:28 - 00:22:45:28 So, yeah, nothing, nothing complicated.

00:22:46:02 - 00:22:48:29 And the reason for it not being too complicated is

00:22:48:29 - 00:22:50:30 I think that's what I was saying earlier is

00:22:50:30 - 00:22:54:10 there's not much depth in this market in terms of on a sector by sector basis.

00:22:54:10 - 00:22:59:32 So if I went and said, great, I want to be solely focused on education,

00:23:00:01 - 00:23:03:27 I've got five or so targets that are at that size that fit.

00:23:03:29 - 00:23:07:20 But if any of them don't want to sell or couldn't agree on valuation

00:23:07:23 - 00:23:08:10 or I just can't

00:23:08:10 - 00:23:11:10 get in touch with the individual, that's important.

00:23:11:12 - 00:23:14:08 That sector done and it's on to the next thing.

00:23:14:08 - 00:23:18:22 And so you know that's the I think that's the

00:23:18:24 - 00:23:21:12 but that is the challenge that is this as well and that's the reason

00:23:21:12 - 00:23:24:12 you need to be sector agnostic.

00:23:24:15 - 00:23:25:23 I think the last part of the thesis,

00:23:25:23 - 00:23:28:29 I would say is is a regional thesis.

00:23:28:29 - 00:23:34:11 So the UAE is an incredible hub market and it's attracting a lot people.

00:23:34:11 - 00:23:40:04 It's growing quite well, but it is also a part of it's London

00:23:40:07 - 00:23:43:31 and it is part of a larger market that is the equivalent of Italy.

00:23:44:03 - 00:23:48:10 So I mean, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait

00:23:48:10 - 00:23:53:09 are all very close by and very tightly integrated with the UAE.

00:23:53:11 - 00:23:56:33 And so any business that's in the UAE in general,

00:23:57:07 - 00:23:58:30 then you're almost always looking at

00:23:58:30 - 00:24:01:00 one of the first things you do is you turn around

00:24:01:00 - 00:24:04:14 if you're stable and you say, great, how do I expand to each of those markets?

00:24:04:14 - 00:24:06:29 And they're all very different markets.

00:24:06:29 - 00:24:10:06 I think it's often under-appreciated, underappreciated how different they are.

00:24:10:09 - 00:24:14:01 But you would always certainly look at each of those markets and say,

00:24:14:03 - 00:24:18:03 All right, from my because of similar there are certain similarities.

00:24:18:03 - 00:24:20:14 Which ones makes sense to expand into.

00:24:20:14 - 00:24:23:17 And at that point that's a big market.

00:24:23:20 - 00:24:26:14 So with regard to those markets

00:24:26:14 - 00:24:30:05 geographically, but also those segments and sectors that you spoke to earlier,

00:24:30:07 - 00:24:33:05 course health care and education and B2B services,

00:24:33:05 - 00:24:36:05 are those areas that you had good exposure

00:24:36:05 - 00:24:40:26 to or opportunity to research and get involved with?

00:24:40:31 - 00:24:42:28 SafeNet

00:24:42:28 - 00:24:45:28 Education and health care? Yes,

00:24:45:28 - 00:24:48:09 I was actually a sufferer

00:24:48:09 - 00:24:52:15 in the family that own at our own a 60,000 student

00:24:52:18 - 00:24:57:07 global education operator, and they own a 6000 student school in Riyadh.

00:24:57:10 - 00:25:00:31 So they're big, very big on education,

00:25:01:00 - 00:25:02:21 health care stuff.

00:25:02:21 - 00:25:06:24 And I was actually the owner of the largest care homes company in the UK.

00:25:06:26 - 00:25:11:13 So are also aware a bit of some action on the health

00:25:11:13 - 00:25:14:13 and we own and the firm owns a health care asset in Saudi Arabia.

00:25:14:16 - 00:25:17:12 So I've seen a better on both sectors of globally

00:25:17:12 - 00:25:20:20 and regionally through the firm had services.

00:25:20:21 - 00:25:24:11 No but Petrobras as a family, you know which is mostly that's

00:25:24:14 - 00:25:28:00 is one of those sectors that is very much a UAE only sector in the region.

00:25:28:03 - 00:25:29:20 You know, a lot new education, health care.

00:25:29:20 - 00:25:34:05 You can take the Saudi, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, etc.

00:25:34:08 - 00:25:35:25 Perhaps that's

00:25:35:25 - 00:25:39:16 tricky, but that's because the UAE is Gulf Arabs

00:25:39:16 - 00:25:43:15 and in general, people a lot of Muslims don't have don't like having dogs.

00:25:43:15 - 00:25:46:23 And dogs are most of the margin. And that's

00:25:46:26 - 00:25:48:30 so you're turning expats in there's in the UAE.

00:25:48:30 - 00:25:52:04 So the UAE is of the entire Middle East North Africa region.

00:25:52:04 - 00:25:54:04 The UAE is literally half the market.

00:25:54:04 - 00:25:58:25 And it's, you know, call it less than 10% of the population of that region.

00:25:58:28 - 00:26:03:01 So that's our UAE only business services, again,

00:26:03:01 - 00:26:06:10 depending on the sector, would take it regional in a heartbeat of tourism.

00:26:06:13 - 00:26:09:17 There's a massive focus on tourism in the city these days, but

00:26:09:18 - 00:26:10:18 I didn't do much of that.

00:26:10:18 - 00:26:13:09 And it's a

00:26:13:09 - 00:26:16:11 cool, great well, so a bit of a bit of unexplored territory

00:26:16:11 - 00:26:17:33 and a bit of familiar stamping ground.

00:26:17:33 - 00:26:19:20 Nice. Exactly.

00:26:19:20 - 00:26:22:07 Tell us a bit about the process of raising capital then.

00:26:22:07 - 00:26:22:30 You spoke earlier

00:26:22:30 - 00:26:27:04 about the challenges of raising debt, finance, commercial finance, credit.

00:26:27:07 - 00:26:31:27 But let's speak to the the equity piece, like you mentioned, that you had spent

00:26:31:27 - 00:26:37:30 a year spent working with investors closing the search phase.

00:26:37:33 - 00:26:40:23 How is that going?

00:26:40:23 - 00:26:43:05 So quite smooth

00:26:43:05 - 00:26:44:11 all in all.

00:26:44:11 - 00:26:48:16 So I would what really helped me is sucking out

00:26:48:22 - 00:26:53:16 and or one of the partners and that when I when I first told you I want to do this,

00:26:53:19 - 00:26:57:09 they turned to me and they said, look, we like you, we want to help you.

00:26:57:12 - 00:26:59:06 This is not our strategy at all.

00:26:59:06 - 00:27:04:01 So we will, on a personal basis, anchor your fund.

00:27:04:04 - 00:27:07:15 Now go raise the rest of We can't manage it,

00:27:07:21 - 00:27:10:13 but we can certainly help and we know the region.

00:27:10:13 - 00:27:12:29 We've got access here, so we're happy to help.

00:27:12:29 - 00:27:17:11 So I started with stopping short of committing up to 30% of the fund.

00:27:17:17 - 00:27:20:28 In reality, I only needed ten because I've got a bunch of other investors.

00:27:20:28 - 00:27:23:27 But what that did is it meant that I could go

00:27:23:27 - 00:27:26:25 when I was raising the rest of the money from global investors,

00:27:26:25 - 00:27:29:12 I could say, Look, I've got a

00:27:29:12 - 00:27:33:19 in fact that the individual, a partner who anchored it, was a very senior.

00:27:33:19 - 00:27:37:11 He was the number two at one of the

00:27:37:14 - 00:27:38:09 capital one point,

00:27:38:09 - 00:27:41:31 which is a massive sovereign wealth fund in the UAE.

00:27:42:00 - 00:27:45:24 So I could go and say, look, I've got someone that

00:27:45:32 - 00:27:49:24 I've got organization that knows the region that's anchoring this.

00:27:49:27 - 00:27:53:13 The first thing any global investor is going to ask when they're

00:27:53:16 - 00:27:56:08 when they're looking at a new market is who's your local investor?

00:27:56:08 - 00:27:59:08 And for me, because that was ready on day one,

00:27:59:10 - 00:28:02:21 it was a call it smoother conversation.

00:28:02:24 - 00:28:05:02 That being said, it wasn't necessarily easy.

00:28:05:02 - 00:28:10:11 And part of it is, I think a lot of a lot of your traditional search investors

00:28:10:14 - 00:28:13:01 are if they're in funds and they tend to fund investors

00:28:13:01 - 00:28:16:14 tend to be the bigger ones, you know, are geographically restricted.

00:28:16:17 - 00:28:16:25 Yeah.

00:28:16:25 - 00:28:20:02 So it'd be tricky for us investors to invest in

00:28:20:02 - 00:28:23:21 GTC vehicles like this

00:28:23:24 - 00:28:28:23 given their accounting obligations and, you know, domestic tax rules.

00:28:28:26 - 00:28:31:24 It wasn't it's it's funny, it wasn't too big from a

00:28:31:24 - 00:28:33:17 from a legal standpoint wasn't an issue for them.

00:28:33:17 - 00:28:36:27 It was more it's and I and I get it to be fair, if you're an American

00:28:36:27 - 00:28:41:29 investor, you've got a just colossal home market and you need a good

00:28:42:03 - 00:28:45:12 and a home market that's performing extremely well from a returns standpoint.

00:28:45:16 - 00:28:48:25 Well, it isn't growing 4 to 5% a year on the GDP level.

00:28:48:25 - 00:28:52:19 There is no outright but but from search, a lot of the resources do very well

00:28:52:19 - 00:28:53:13 in their home market.

00:28:53:13 - 00:28:55:02 So, you know, it's

00:28:55:02 - 00:29:00:04 I thought American institutional investors were virtually a no go

00:29:00:07 - 00:29:02:09 the so a

00:29:02:09 - 00:29:06:05 few but then I think there are I think what what has changed is

00:29:06:08 - 00:29:10:06 there are a few investors, institution investors that are looking at new markets.

00:29:10:06 - 00:29:14:05 So you know and by this I mean you know,

00:29:14:07 - 00:29:17:23 BET partners, SIRAVO and Spectra are all my cap table.

00:29:17:26 - 00:29:20:17 I think they all you know, they're all looking at new

00:29:20:17 - 00:29:23:27 markets and, you know, and trying to trying to diversify as well.

00:29:23:27 - 00:29:26:07 I mean, it's whole strategy is

00:29:26:07 - 00:29:28:21 pretty much we're going to look at those at the markets that everyone else

00:29:28:21 - 00:29:30:01 ignores, which is great.

00:29:30:01 - 00:29:33:01 I mean, it's I think it's a fantastic approach,

00:29:33:09 - 00:29:35:19 but all three have been great partners.

00:29:35:19 - 00:29:37:32 But then I think a lot of the fundraising came from family offices

00:29:37:32 - 00:29:42:07 who don't have those geographic restrictions that

00:29:42:10 - 00:29:45:30 the the the fund investors tend to have.

00:29:45:33 - 00:29:48:26 And I think for a lot of family offices, their attitude

00:29:48:26 - 00:29:52:29 is, look, I'm very exposed to my home market in various ways.

00:29:52:32 - 00:29:54:16 The UAE is a

00:29:54:16 - 00:29:57:24 for all the reasons I mentioned earlier, is an attractive market.

00:29:57:26 - 00:30:00:16 Why don't I see that what I see, if this could work, this

00:30:00:16 - 00:30:04:05 this could be very interesting, I think, for a lot of the European ones as well.

00:30:04:08 - 00:30:07:24 A lot of are probably overexposed to their home European countries.

00:30:07:24 - 00:30:11:20 So for them, it was an added an added layer of interest.

00:30:11:23 - 00:30:15:04 So with the original anchoring that you didn't end up

00:30:15:04 - 00:30:20:05 needing all of from staff engagement

00:30:20:07 - 00:30:22:20 partner,

00:30:22:20 - 00:30:26:04 what did that translate to at the end in terms of the composition of your cap

00:30:26:04 - 00:30:30:14 table percentage wise, in terms of local money like GCC investors

00:30:30:14 - 00:30:32:22 versus international investors?

00:30:32:22 - 00:30:37:32 It's about two thirds international, one third local.

00:30:38:00 - 00:30:39:31 Nice for them,

00:30:39:31 - 00:30:42:09 very happy because they

00:30:42:09 - 00:30:45:04 I think each bring something very different to the table.

00:30:45:04 - 00:30:48:18 And that's and that's frankly the best part is the largest.

00:30:48:19 - 00:30:51:12 The investors bring deep local knowledge.

00:30:51:12 - 00:30:53:26 They understand how to do things in this market.

00:30:53:26 - 00:30:56:28 They understand, you know, what it takes to get a deal done here.

00:30:56:28 - 00:31:01:10 And they they know what to look out for.

00:31:01:13 - 00:31:04:27 The global investors bring a more capital,

00:31:04:27 - 00:31:09:28 but pattern recognition and understanding of the search model

00:31:09:31 - 00:31:12:00 and that and that rigor as well.

00:31:12:00 - 00:31:15:24 So they complement each other very nicely

00:31:15:26 - 00:31:16:18 in that part.

00:31:16:18 - 00:31:17:32 And so that part's been very, very helpful.

00:31:17:32 - 00:31:20:22 And I'm very happy with

00:31:20:22 - 00:31:23:22 I at the end of the day,

00:31:23:25 - 00:31:25:09 you always know that in any search fund,

00:31:25:09 - 00:31:27:16 not everyone's going to sign up for the deal itself

00:31:27:16 - 00:31:29:25 and there's always going to be a bit of an equity and equity gap.

00:31:29:25 - 00:31:31:26 And I'm prepared for that.

00:31:31:26 - 00:31:35:15 My guess is like most things, it will be it is a new market.

00:31:35:22 - 00:31:36:28 Not everyone is comfortable with it.

00:31:36:28 - 00:31:38:06 So I will probably,

00:31:38:06 - 00:31:41:29 I suspect, lose a few of the international investors when a deal comes along.

00:31:41:32 - 00:31:44:31 But they I'm pretty comfortable.

00:31:44:31 - 00:31:46:33 I can fill that with regional investors, if any.

00:31:46:33 - 00:31:49:24 If I do decide they're going to pass up,

00:31:49:27 - 00:31:50:12 great.

00:31:50:12 - 00:31:51:13 I really admire that confidence.

00:31:51:13 - 00:31:54:33 And it sounds like you're well insulated there one way or another.

00:31:55:02 - 00:31:57:33 Do you have any pearls of wisdom, any advice

00:31:57:33 - 00:32:01:19 for any emerging searches on on the capital fundraising?

00:32:01:22 - 00:32:04:09 Yeah, it's it's it's it's a challenge.

00:32:04:09 - 00:32:07:06 And I would say definitely brace for it.

00:32:07:06 - 00:32:10:06 But I think look, I think one thing is

00:32:10:10 - 00:32:12:20 there's always if you're fundraising there's always a bit of a chicken

00:32:12:20 - 00:32:16:04 and the egg problem around this question of a local anchor

00:32:16:07 - 00:32:18:17 for a local investor in that you need one.

00:32:18:17 - 00:32:23:03 But does it make sense to start with a global or a local?

00:32:23:05 - 00:32:24:02 It goes either way.

00:32:24:02 - 00:32:29:22 I think in general it makes sense to start with to get your local investor in first

00:32:29:25 - 00:32:33:16 it everyone's going to ask for it and but if you have someone

00:32:33:16 - 00:32:35:30 locally who can talk to the strengths of the market,

00:32:35:30 - 00:32:38:29 you know, is comfortable operating here, knows how things are done,

00:32:38:29 - 00:32:43:24 I think get them in early it will it will help a lot

00:32:43:27 - 00:32:45:05 too is know your you know

00:32:45:05 - 00:32:48:22 spend if you're in a new market spend some time make sure you've spent some time

00:32:48:25 - 00:32:50:09 in that market quite extensively.

00:32:50:09 - 00:32:53:09 So you know I think A

00:32:53:12 - 00:32:56:17 in the West it's quite common where, you know, you can do

00:32:56:18 - 00:33:00:30 you can run a Pan American US search, for example,

00:33:00:33 - 00:33:02:15 straight out of business school.

00:33:02:15 - 00:33:05:11 I think in a if you're in a new emerging market that no one's

00:33:05:11 - 00:33:09:29 touched before that it might be harder to do it straight out of business school.

00:33:10:01 - 00:33:15:03 You know the bar on having a local network, local context, etc.

00:33:15:03 - 00:33:15:33 it's just a bit higher

00:33:15:33 - 00:33:19:26 because I think investors want to de-risk, de-risk a little bit.

00:33:19:29 - 00:33:24:20 And so the deeper your local network can be,

00:33:24:22 - 00:33:28:05 etc., I think that that only helps.

00:33:28:07 - 00:33:30:11 I think those two things I would I would focus on other.

00:33:30:11 - 00:33:34:08 Lastly, I take a lot you know it's once you've got a local investor

00:33:34:11 - 00:33:38:01 don't be afraid to paying quite literally everybody I mean I think I don't remember

00:33:38:01 - 00:33:43:07 how many emails I shot out to some called some warm to every investor, both U.S.

00:33:43:07 - 00:33:45:01 and global,

00:33:45:01 - 00:33:47:32 the US European primarily just to see who was interested.

00:33:47:32 - 00:33:51:08 You know, at worst it's worse they're going to say no.

00:33:51:16 - 00:33:54:16 So you know, what's the worst can happen?

00:33:54:17 - 00:33:57:33 You Yeah and you know even when people pass they've actually been

00:33:57:33 - 00:34:01:06 some have been some have said, look, we can't give you for fundraising spot.

00:34:01:06 - 00:34:04:06 We're very happy to stay as an advisor, a thought partner.

00:34:04:06 - 00:34:06:06 And so I'm taking them up on that as well.

00:34:06:06 - 00:34:08:00 Get them on fund too.

00:34:08:00 - 00:34:09:23 Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

00:34:09:23 - 00:34:12:21 But once you've proven the because you've got the job of educating everybody and

00:34:12:21 - 00:34:16:18 I guess that that raises the question the in your PM did you depart

00:34:16:18 - 00:34:20:18 much from the sort of Stanford template if you will and have to you know

00:34:20:20 - 00:34:25:32 put a lot of effort into educating us to the space and the geography.

00:34:26:00 - 00:34:27:06 So I did two things.

00:34:27:06 - 00:34:31:23 I mean, so I had the poem that was basically a copy of the Standard

00:34:31:26 - 00:34:33:33 Stanford PM.

00:34:33:33 - 00:34:37:33 I also did a and I think it's because my consulting background is I did

00:34:38:00 - 00:34:43:18 I had a presentation as well that I think is just a bit more digestible.

00:34:43:21 - 00:34:46:14 I don't know, I find just because I find a 40 page

00:34:46:14 - 00:34:50:28 text block to be difficult to read through and painful

00:34:50:31 - 00:34:54:14 and not something that necessarily engages your audience.

00:34:54:16 - 00:34:55:21 Yeah, exactly.

00:34:55:21 - 00:35:00:22 So, so I also had a presentation that was, you know, 30 pages or so, but more graft

00:35:00:22 - 00:35:04:17 driven that literally just talked through the macro context for the market.

00:35:04:17 - 00:35:07:02 And I think that that actually helped.

00:35:07:02 - 00:35:10:09 I don't think I don't think I ever actually presented the document per se,

00:35:10:16 - 00:35:13:27 but I sat around everyone, and I think most people preferred reading,

00:35:13:33 - 00:35:15:08 reading that.

00:35:15:08 - 00:35:18:09 And then most investors looked at the PBM as well, because there are a few things

00:35:18:09 - 00:35:22:33 that were not in the wider presentation that were quite keen, you know, certain

00:35:23:00 - 00:35:27:16 nothing gets in the TV on that review, but that was later in the process.

00:35:27:18 - 00:35:28:26 Got it.

00:35:28:26 - 00:35:31:10 So you closed the search phase,

00:35:31:10 - 00:35:35:26 a capital raise and you're into the actual sourcing.

00:35:35:29 - 00:35:37:33 Could you speak to a little bit

00:35:37:33 - 00:35:39:16 what what methods you're using?

00:35:39:16 - 00:35:44:14 You mentioned about advisors and broker meetings earlier, but what other tools

00:35:44:14 - 00:35:49:22 are available to emerging searchers in the GTC to find businesses?

00:35:49:25 - 00:35:51:28 So that's a very good question.

00:35:51:28 - 00:35:54:17 So, you know, in general search, you've got have you got it?

00:35:54:17 - 00:35:58:12 You've got the two approaches, the intermediated and the proprietary,

00:35:58:15 - 00:36:02:14 I think on the intermediated, the childhood.

00:36:02:15 - 00:36:05:05 And this is I think one of the big challenges in the GCC is

00:36:05:05 - 00:36:09:18 that ecosystem is not very developed and it's not very large.

00:36:09:18 - 00:36:15:17 In the USA Europe, you have a very deep, very robust broker network.

00:36:15:17 - 00:36:20:17 You've got SMB, SMB advisors, SMB lawyers, accountants, kind of you

00:36:20:17 - 00:36:26:01 name it, you have that ecosystem is there and it's robust density.

00:36:26:03 - 00:36:27:03 No, I

00:36:27:03 - 00:36:30:30 think there are three brokers in the UAE

00:36:30:33 - 00:36:32:31 broker firms

00:36:32:31 - 00:36:36:08 with, you know, two are primarily a website,

00:36:36:08 - 00:36:37:12 but have a couple people on site.

00:36:37:12 - 00:36:39:08 One has individuals there.

00:36:39:08 - 00:36:44:14 But that's that's it on a broker standpoint, on the for all the

00:36:44:17 - 00:36:49:18 for all Yammer for the country there's four

00:36:49:21 - 00:36:52:09 for SMB advisors

00:36:52:09 - 00:36:56:13 call your M&A advisors there are you know I count 8 to 10

00:36:56:13 - 00:37:00:13 maybe give or take but even that might be a bit of a stretch.

00:37:00:15 - 00:37:02:23 And you can tell you start you've start to run through the ecosystem

00:37:02:23 - 00:37:05:02 when different people are going to introduce you to people

00:37:05:02 - 00:37:06:04 you've already met.

00:37:06:04 - 00:37:09:11 So at that point, you know, okay, I've got a pretty good handle

00:37:09:11 - 00:37:13:11 on who's actually in this market.

00:37:13:14 - 00:37:16:21 And so the the advisory ecosystem is there.

00:37:16:21 - 00:37:20:30 It's not that it's not that deep, but what it means is you do get to know.

00:37:20:33 - 00:37:23:22 You can get to know pretty much everybody.

00:37:23:22 - 00:37:27:06 And it's and it's because you do have you know, you have all the big names here,

00:37:27:07 - 00:37:31:06 like you have the big four accounting firms, you have a lot of the banks, etc..

00:37:31:09 - 00:37:36:17 But all them are very busy working for the very active sovereign wealth funds.

00:37:36:19 - 00:37:39:07 And they won't take on any you know, they'll they won't do any deal

00:37:39:07 - 00:37:41:25 that isn't going to earn them, give or take $1,000,000 in fees.

00:37:41:25 - 00:37:44:24 And that's obviously out of the out of the remit of a search fund.

00:37:44:24 - 00:37:50:04 So the while it will look like there's an active advisory ecosystem.

00:37:50:06 - 00:37:55:21 There is, but only for larger deals, not for not for SMB deals. So

00:37:55:24 - 00:37:56:25 either way, the result is

00:37:56:25 - 00:38:01:12 I've spent the first month and also pre launching,

00:38:01:15 - 00:38:03:12 getting in front of all the intermediaries, getting,

00:38:03:12 - 00:38:04:00 getting to know them,

00:38:04:00 - 00:38:07:32 getting to see what they have, making sure that they're aware that I exist

00:38:08:00 - 00:38:11:08 because they've been and they have been a great source of deal flow

00:38:11:15 - 00:38:14:12 and they as I think any market they help

00:38:14:12 - 00:38:17:16 by anyone that's come to them at least has their financials more in order.

00:38:17:17 - 00:38:20:17 They've gotten their act together a little bit to prepare for a sale.

00:38:20:22 - 00:38:23:22 So it's in some ways faster.

00:38:23:27 - 00:38:24:33 The complication is obviously that

00:38:24:33 - 00:38:27:30 if it's an a process to solve it, it's more expensive.

00:38:27:30 - 00:38:29:33 So I've been doing that

00:38:29:33 - 00:38:31:28 and on the proprietary.

00:38:31:28 - 00:38:33:16 So the point is that it's the more complicated ones.

00:38:33:16 - 00:38:40:08 So you you have some of the same tools that you have, whether it's, you know,

00:38:40:11 - 00:38:43:12 they all exist like graphs or scrub the things that the tools

00:38:43:12 - 00:38:47:01 that people use to generate emails and contact list that have this to us.

00:38:47:01 - 00:38:49:27 Markets do kind of exist here.

00:38:49:27 - 00:38:52:13 But the problem is that because this is such an inactive

00:38:52:13 - 00:38:56:02 market for them, they've all invested very little in data here.

00:38:56:04 - 00:39:00:09 And so, you know, for example, I was looking at Apollo and one

00:39:00:09 - 00:39:02:15 of the other data solutions

00:39:02:18 - 00:39:05:19 I won't name, I won't say which one, but the one the other ones, they cost,

00:39:05:26 - 00:39:08:24 you know, thousands of thousand dollars a year.

00:39:08:24 - 00:39:14:12 And was comparing the data set and Apollo, which was $550 a year for what I need.

00:39:14:12 - 00:39:17:12 It had more companies

00:39:17:20 - 00:39:19:18 in it than the competitor that was.

00:39:19:18 - 00:39:23:03 And it was, you know, less than 10% the price.

00:39:23:05 - 00:39:26:00 But it's because nobody has good data.

00:39:26:00 - 00:39:28:07 They are walking. Apollo data was a good either.

00:39:28:07 - 00:39:29:31 They were you know, they were

00:39:29:31 - 00:39:33:26 they didn't have no one had the owners name or email address or anything.

00:39:33:26 - 00:39:36:26 But which speaks of the fact that in general

00:39:36:29 - 00:39:40:21 data here is very spotty on a proprietary basis.

00:39:40:21 - 00:39:45:03 And so I think what you end up doing is,

00:39:45:06 - 00:39:50:02 you know, you can use Apollo, you can use simple Google searching.

00:39:50:04 - 00:39:52:30 You have someone of five or help you.

00:39:52:30 - 00:39:53:30 You can do a whole.

00:39:53:30 - 00:39:57:21 And I think what you end up doing in reality is you end up triangulating across

00:39:57:23 - 00:40:01:11 three or four or five sources to build out company lists

00:40:01:14 - 00:40:04:22 and individual names and then reach out that way.

00:40:04:26 - 00:40:07:31 But the proprietary outreach process, I think here is

00:40:07:31 - 00:40:12:01 a lot more labor intensive and a lot slower than it is in Western markets,

00:40:12:04 - 00:40:15:01 and we don't publish

00:40:15:01 - 00:40:19:10 records to the same extent as, you know, other nations.

00:40:19:13 - 00:40:22:27 I mean, I'm I'm not even expecting it to be a digital registry

00:40:22:27 - 00:40:24:14 in the same way as we have here in the UK.

00:40:24:14 - 00:40:27:30 But in terms of like ownership records or that kind of thing where you can

00:40:27:30 - 00:40:32:30 at least get a name attached to a license, I mean, are those publicly available?

00:40:32:33 - 00:40:35:07 So what is available?

00:40:35:07 - 00:40:37:26 It's a it's a hard database to paint properly.

00:40:37:26 - 00:40:41:20 So they do publicly list and you can

00:40:41:23 - 00:40:46:23 you can ping the every commercial license, commercial registered license

00:40:46:26 - 00:40:49:12 and see whose email address is on

00:40:49:12 - 00:40:52:24 that as their registered person tied to that license.

00:40:52:27 - 00:40:56:12 Now, the problem with that is, hey, the database is hard to pin.

00:40:56:15 - 00:40:59:05 So companies elsewhere, you can kind of search your name

00:40:59:05 - 00:41:02:09 and it spits out, you know, pages on pages of data.

00:41:02:09 - 00:41:07:01 It's the database only gives out max five results.

00:41:07:04 - 00:41:09:32 It doesn't the license is not necessarily linked to who owns it.

00:41:09:32 - 00:41:14:14 In fact, it could just be their admin who went and renewed the license.

00:41:14:14 - 00:41:17:24 So to their sponsor,

00:41:17:27 - 00:41:23:17 I guess Card was a local Emirati sponsor because I'm betting on

00:41:23:20 - 00:41:28:03 you used to have to have local representation.

00:41:28:06 - 00:41:29:16 So that is no longer the case.

00:41:29:16 - 00:41:31:19 Now they they changed the law recently.

00:41:31:19 - 00:41:31:29 You can.

00:41:31:29 - 00:41:35:07 But if you're looking at businesses that were incorporated it years ago,

00:41:35:08 - 00:41:38:32 I think so This database won't tell you who the owner is.

00:41:38:32 - 00:41:41:32 It'll just tell you who the license license is,

00:41:42:06 - 00:41:45:06 the person who registered the licenses.

00:41:45:11 - 00:41:48:32 So that's the problem with the device is it doesn't actually link to ownership,

00:41:49:01 - 00:41:49:30 but it is there.

00:41:49:30 - 00:41:51:18 So you can search the other form.

00:41:51:18 - 00:41:53:10 And that database is

00:41:53:10 - 00:41:58:17 it's linked to what is the legal the legal name of the entity. And,

00:41:58:20 - 00:42:01:20 you know, legal names are often can be very different from trade names.

00:42:01:27 - 00:42:05:32 And so you need to know what the legal name of the company

00:42:05:32 - 00:42:07:12 you're trying to find is.

00:42:07:12 - 00:42:10:25 You also need to deal with the fact that a lot of it

00:42:10:28 - 00:42:14:24 and companies here will have multiple entities.

00:42:14:27 - 00:42:16:31 And so you might need to be looking for the right entity.

00:42:16:31 - 00:42:18:13 You know, it could be,

00:42:18:13 - 00:42:22:31 you know, certain companies will have ten or so entities underneath them and

00:42:22:33 - 00:42:24:10 they might have different registrations.

00:42:24:10 - 00:42:26:23 They might have different trade names, and it can get messy.

00:42:26:23 - 00:42:30:01 So somewhat threes owns

00:42:30:04 - 00:42:34:23 some incorporate different subsidiaries to get into different freezer.

00:42:34:27 - 00:42:36:30 Right? Exactly. Exactly.

00:42:36:30 - 00:42:40:22 So you're even though the data is there it's it's hard to get it

00:42:40:25 - 00:42:41:24 get the exact data need.

00:42:41:24 - 00:42:46:24 And so the result is you know you're you are often

00:42:46:27 - 00:42:49:27 you know between I'm using I'm using Apollo

00:42:49:27 - 00:42:53:11 linked in sales navigator the government database

00:42:53:14 - 00:42:56:14 and just literally I have had someone

00:42:56:17 - 00:42:59:22 few times for a sector I like just go on to Google Maps

00:42:59:22 - 00:43:03:02 and search in each part of the country, search for that,

00:43:03:04 - 00:43:06:04 that type of company and see what comes up.

00:43:06:07 - 00:43:09:21 And, you know, it's yielding it's yielding lists that

00:43:09:23 - 00:43:11:26 but it's it is labor intensive.

00:43:11:26 - 00:43:15:18 I'm actually having a bunch of interns join me this summer,

00:43:15:20 - 00:43:18:01 quite literally push through the manual effort involved

00:43:18:01 - 00:43:22:02 and just identifying company names and identifying targets.

00:43:22:05 - 00:43:22:15 Yeah.

00:43:22:15 - 00:43:24:06 And then there's the process of actually outreaching

00:43:24:06 - 00:43:27:33 and having conversations with these folks, finding them

00:43:28:02 - 00:43:31:22 to speak to Well, well, and this is a so this is a separate challenge

00:43:31:22 - 00:43:35:24 here as well, which is, you know, in the West emails very common.

00:43:35:27 - 00:43:36:30 Anyone who's ever done business

00:43:36:30 - 00:43:40:25 in the Middle East knows that everything here is on WhatsApp,

00:43:40:28 - 00:43:42:10 quite literally everything.

00:43:42:10 - 00:43:46:23 And you know, the you're not if you're only doing email,

00:43:46:23 - 00:43:47:04 you're losing,

00:43:47:04 - 00:43:49:03 you're losing a lot of people that actually might be perfectly willing

00:43:49:03 - 00:43:52:20 to respond to you, but just don't check their email and so

00:43:52:23 - 00:43:55:32 and phone numbers obviously are much more confidential and much harder to get.

00:43:55:32 - 00:43:59:29 So it's even if you know the company, you know,

00:43:59:29 - 00:44:04:14 the right person, email is quite often not the best way to get them.

00:44:04:17 - 00:44:07:25 So while we're in the mode of talking about challenges to your search,

00:44:07:25 - 00:44:09:32 I mean, you've mentioned there about the proprietary sourcing

00:44:09:32 - 00:44:13:31 and contacting and credit, do you foresee other challenges?

00:44:13:31 - 00:44:17:31 I mean, what is what's the commercial due diligence going to look like where,

00:44:17:31 - 00:44:20:31 you know, records, financial records might not be as

00:44:21:04 - 00:44:24:11 well curated as they are in the West.

00:44:24:13 - 00:44:26:11 So I think I think that'll be a challenge.

00:44:26:11 - 00:44:29:24 I think, you know, all those I think all the standard challenges

00:44:29:24 - 00:44:32:18 that you expect that you people have dealt with in the West, I think will apply.

00:44:32:18 - 00:44:35:18 So financial records not being

00:44:35:24 - 00:44:38:31 an SMB is not being up to up to what you'd need.

00:44:39:00 - 00:44:40:15 I mean, that's a common one everywhere.

00:44:40:15 - 00:44:42:29 I think that will be a challenge here.

00:44:42:29 - 00:44:47:22 It will be exacerbated a bit here because though getting better

00:44:47:25 - 00:44:50:17 is in the West, a lot of what drives you to maintain

00:44:50:17 - 00:44:53:15 secure financials is taxes, is you have to follow,

00:44:53:15 - 00:44:56:09 you know, you have to report to the taxman and that will

00:44:56:09 - 00:44:58:21 that will force you to clean things up a little bit.

00:44:58:21 - 00:45:02:27 The UAE did not have corporate tax until this year, basically.

00:45:02:30 - 00:45:05:19 So you could bet that records pre

00:45:05:19 - 00:45:10:20 this year are not in you know, can be could be very messy.

00:45:10:23 - 00:45:14:15 They have instituted a discrepancy 9%.

00:45:14:20 - 00:45:16:06 So it's still way less than in the west.

00:45:16:06 - 00:45:19:18 But there is now I mean, because of the global rules around

00:45:19:18 - 00:45:24:01 corporate taxation, there is now a 9% corporate tax that applies to everyone.

00:45:24:01 - 00:45:28:17 So that is forcing a degree of clean up.

00:45:28:20 - 00:45:31:17 Now, the difference in the UAE is it's

00:45:31:17 - 00:45:35:24 when when a rule does come into force, it can be very hard to skirt that rule.

00:45:35:30 - 00:45:39:03 The authorities here do take compliance quite seriously.

00:45:39:06 - 00:45:42:30 So, you know, it will help clean up cleaning up and cleaning up financials.

00:45:42:31 - 00:45:45:31 I think that that is one that's one challenge for sure.

00:45:46:01 - 00:45:49:14 I think another challenge that I think is unique to this market

00:45:49:17 - 00:45:52:23 is which relates to the company acquired is

00:45:52:26 - 00:45:55:26 the UAE is 90% ex-pat.

00:45:55:26 - 00:45:59:02 And what that means though is,

00:45:59:04 - 00:46:03:13 you know, the there's no local culture There is

00:46:03:15 - 00:46:06:26 you know, there are 200 cultures or more there, 500 even,

00:46:06:29 - 00:46:10:03 because depending on where the individuals from,

00:46:10:03 - 00:46:13:03 but even where that individual is from in their home country.

00:46:13:04 - 00:46:16:33 And so if you're buying a if you're looking at a business here

00:46:17:01 - 00:46:21:23 at the SMB size, in many in many cases, that business is run

00:46:21:23 - 00:46:25:25 entirely by people from one nationality or even one region in the country.

00:46:25:28 - 00:46:29:13 You know, it's it could be a Jordanian

00:46:29:16 - 00:46:30:20 or a Lebanese business that

00:46:30:20 - 00:46:34:12 everyone is Lebanese or in many cases the business,

00:46:34:15 - 00:46:37:11 the biggest business community in the UAE is the South Asian community.

00:46:37:11 - 00:46:42:02 And, you know, a lot of businesses that will be everyone will be from Gujarat

00:46:42:02 - 00:46:45:07 or Punjab or some some region

00:46:45:07 - 00:46:49:12 and in South Asia and it's Kerala.

00:46:49:12 - 00:46:50:06 Exactly.

00:46:50:06 - 00:46:56:30 And it can be if the challenge there is if you're not from the region,

00:46:56:33 - 00:46:58:28 when the business is 100% from

00:46:58:28 - 00:47:03:22 or you know, 80%, 100% from one region, it is virtually impossible

00:47:03:22 - 00:47:07:00 to take that business over because the culture matters tremendously.

00:47:07:03 - 00:47:09:20 So I think that is one

00:47:09:20 - 00:47:14:22 nuanced challenge to this market and that, you know, and there's no

00:47:14:25 - 00:47:17:05 there's no way to solve it because either you're from that region,

00:47:17:05 - 00:47:20:23 but the company in question is is linked to or you're not.

00:47:20:26 - 00:47:26:01 And so that part is, I think, a additional nuance challenge to hear,

00:47:26:03 - 00:47:28:08 are you immune to the

00:47:28:08 - 00:47:32:04 the geopolitical challenges that we're now facing?

00:47:32:06 - 00:47:35:11 You know, in Trump 2.0 here in the West?

00:47:35:17 - 00:47:39:05 Or is there are there you know, we saw today

00:47:39:08 - 00:47:41:23 a new spat between India and Bangladesh, sorry,

00:47:41:23 - 00:47:44:23 India and Pakistan over Kashmir.

00:47:44:25 - 00:47:47:29 Are we seeing geopolitical instability in the GCC

00:47:47:29 - 00:47:51:25 or is that relatively protected thing?

00:47:51:28 - 00:47:52:28 So it depends.

00:47:52:28 - 00:47:56:10 I mean, I think I think the Middle East has I mean, the Middle East

00:47:56:10 - 00:47:59:20 has been perennially unstable for the past 200 years or 250 years.

00:47:59:20 - 00:48:02:20 I don't think that will ever change.

00:48:02:22 - 00:48:06:33 And it's no secret we're in a we're in a tough neighborhood

00:48:07:02 - 00:48:09:24 in the UAE.

00:48:09:24 - 00:48:10:30 That being said,

00:48:10:30 - 00:48:13:29 I think the impact always varies.

00:48:13:29 - 00:48:19:02 We are we're always exposed to what happens to the price of oil

00:48:19:05 - 00:48:19:28 if it

00:48:19:28 - 00:48:23:15 you know, if it if it goes down, it doesn't directly.

00:48:23:15 - 00:48:26:18 Generally, the country is liquid enough and wealthy enough

00:48:26:18 - 00:48:30:12 that the director of the oil price doesn't hit us too hard directly.

00:48:30:14 - 00:48:32:04 But it does indirectly.

00:48:32:04 - 00:48:36:23 It does directly, more negatively impact a few other source markets

00:48:36:25 - 00:48:40:24 that are like Saudi Arabia in particular that are big for business here.

00:48:40:24 - 00:48:46:12 So if the price of oil drops, we are we do get affected.

00:48:46:15 - 00:48:49:25 Conflicts in India and Pakistan can hit us, for example,

00:48:49:28 - 00:48:54:02 quite hard because they're massive tourism, tourism source markets.

00:48:54:02 - 00:48:59:18 So if if tourist flows and in general in Dubai is one of the I think

00:48:59:19 - 00:49:03:03 top three most visited cities in the world from a tourist standpoint nowadays.

00:49:03:06 - 00:49:06:03 So any anything that really hits tourism

00:49:06:03 - 00:49:10:16 will will be a it will be an impact here.

00:49:10:19 - 00:49:11:31 And on the flipside, I think we were discussing

00:49:11:31 - 00:49:16:17 earlier is because this is a flight to safety market,

00:49:16:20 - 00:49:18:33 you always have the countervailing push

00:49:18:33 - 00:49:23:23 when other parts of the world get unstable or start having issues.

00:49:23:26 - 00:49:24:27 People tend to come here.

00:49:24:27 - 00:49:26:30 They try to they stash their money here,

00:49:26:30 - 00:49:30:23 they park their families here because it is you know, it's an it

00:49:30:23 - 00:49:35:12 is the UAE itself is a very, extremely safe, stable market.

00:49:35:15 - 00:49:38:08 So it's hard to say.

00:49:38:08 - 00:49:41:13 We're not I mean, for example, the UAE, I don't

00:49:41:16 - 00:49:44:16 you know, I when I go I've gone years without locking my door.

00:49:44:22 - 00:49:46:15 And I don't think there's anywhere in the country

00:49:46:15 - 00:49:49:00 I feel unsafe walking alone at four. Yeah.

00:49:49:00 - 00:49:53:27 So that level of safety is just very attractive.

00:49:53:30 - 00:49:57:05 I think it's hard to say as a result,

00:49:57:08 - 00:50:01:07 you know what what impact the cultural instability will have,

00:50:01:07 - 00:50:03:20 because there are ways it helps, in ways it hurts.

00:50:03:20 - 00:50:07:16 But the UAE is in general not a big manufacturer

00:50:07:16 - 00:50:09:00 and not a big exporter to the US.

00:50:09:00 - 00:50:13:24 So the and we're going to trump only Southwest the 10% tariff.

00:50:13:24 - 00:50:16:33 So as it affects the UAE, the UAE directly

00:50:16:33 - 00:50:20:06 trump tariffs aren't going to be that big of an issue.

00:50:20:08 - 00:50:20:24 Awesome.

00:50:20:24 - 00:50:25:30 So no more or less volatile than other parts of the world right now.

00:50:25:32 - 00:50:27:20 Yeah,

00:50:27:20 - 00:50:32:13 we're definitely better off than Europe or or East Asia, that's for sure.

00:50:32:16 - 00:50:33:21 Yeah. Great.

00:50:33:21 - 00:50:37:11 Okay, so let's fast forward 12 months.

00:50:37:14 - 00:50:41:13 What do you want to have achieved or its legacy by then?

00:50:41:16 - 00:50:42:27 I mean, look, I'd love to.

00:50:42:27 - 00:50:45:27 I'd love to be in a position of a company and or legacy.

00:50:46:01 - 00:50:48:06 The search can be closed.

00:50:48:06 - 00:50:51:03 Realistically, I think that's probably a bit overoptimistic.

00:50:51:03 - 00:50:53:14 The all time lines in the Middle East do take,

00:50:53:14 - 00:50:55:07 I think, a lot longer than in other markets.

00:50:55:07 - 00:50:59:06 You know, things are things are can be slower here than elsewhere.

00:50:59:08 - 00:51:01:26 Realistically I

00:51:01:26 - 00:51:03:08 what I've told myself is

00:51:03:08 - 00:51:05:06 I need to have found if this is going to work,

00:51:05:06 - 00:51:08:06 I need to have at least found the company that I'm going to close on

00:51:08:10 - 00:51:09:28 by the end of the first year.

00:51:09:28 - 00:51:13:12 I don't need to be closed on it or, you know, very actively in discussions,

00:51:13:12 - 00:51:17:10 but I need to have found it because I do think I need to give myself a year

00:51:17:10 - 00:51:21:08 to go through the diligence process and negotiation process, etc.,

00:51:21:08 - 00:51:24:33 because it's going to be things just take a lot in the Middle East.

00:51:25:02 - 00:51:27:22 So I'd love to be my target

00:51:27:22 - 00:51:32:29 is to be in active negotiations with someone by the end of the first year.

00:51:32:31 - 00:51:34:33 Also, one of the people

00:51:34:33 - 00:51:39:08 that is the case and we'd love to have you back to tell us how it went.

00:51:39:16 - 00:51:43:27 Once you've got one over the line, do you have any particular takeaways

00:51:43:29 - 00:51:46:18 or messages that you'd like listeners of the amazing

00:51:46:18 - 00:51:49:33 to to to grasp?

00:51:50:01 - 00:51:53:10 I feel like think about for a lot of people it's

00:51:53:13 - 00:51:55:31 a lot people tend to ignore the search.

00:51:55:31 - 00:52:00:07 Search in emerging markets is not as big of a thing just yet.

00:52:00:10 - 00:52:02:20 I think one thing I would flag is do consider it

00:52:02:20 - 00:52:05:26 you know it's do you look at these other and other markets.

00:52:05:26 - 00:52:07:08 I think it's certainly viable.

00:52:07:08 - 00:52:10:20 I think the the trends that underpinned why search has worked

00:52:10:20 - 00:52:14:19 so well in the US, UK, Spain, etc.

00:52:14:22 - 00:52:16:21 do apply in emerging markets

00:52:16:21 - 00:52:20:13 anywhere with a slight twist, but the fundamental trends still apply.

00:52:20:16 - 00:52:23:23 And so I think one thing I would say is don't if you're thinking about in

00:52:23:23 - 00:52:24:33 an emerging market,

00:52:24:33 - 00:52:28:08 don't think just because no one has done it before that it can't work.

00:52:28:16 - 00:52:33:21 And you might find that the receptiveness to the concept is in fact quite high

00:52:33:23 - 00:52:35:18 know people have been

00:52:35:18 - 00:52:37:28 I mean the joke is, which I talk to people about this

00:52:37:28 - 00:52:42:00 as well as whereas if you called out to someone in the West,

00:52:42:00 - 00:52:46:03 you might get a 1%, one and a half percent of people responding

00:52:46:06 - 00:52:49:20 here, the response rates close to 10 to 20%.

00:52:49:23 - 00:52:53:22 So it's it can very well work.

00:52:53:25 - 00:52:56:18 Wow. That's two inspiring takeaways.

00:52:56:18 - 00:53:00:03 Their response rate for one piqued my interest, but

00:53:00:06 - 00:53:04:07 also your example that just because it hasn't been done

00:53:04:07 - 00:53:07:07 doesn't mean that the conditions aren't right for it to be done.

00:53:07:10 - 00:53:08:29 That's a

00:53:08:29 - 00:53:09:19 great takeaway.

00:53:09:19 - 00:53:11:32 Thanks so much for that, Adam.

00:53:11:32 - 00:53:14:09 So how might the listener get in contact with you

00:53:14:09 - 00:53:17:21 if they wanted to tap your brain on this

00:53:17:24 - 00:53:19:30 on this space? Yeah.

00:53:19:30 - 00:53:25:17 So if they want to learn more about what I'm doing precisely or legacy.com,

00:53:25:20 - 00:53:26:17 this is the

00:53:26:17 - 00:53:29:17 website and anyone can reach out to me directly.

00:53:29:18 - 00:53:31:31 Adam or Legacy.com.

00:53:31:31 - 00:53:36:06 So just drop me an email and I'm very active.

00:53:36:09 - 00:53:36:24 Fabulous.

00:53:36:24 - 00:53:38:15 Thanks so much, Adam.

00:53:38:15 - 00:53:40:33 It's been really inspiring listening

00:53:40:33 - 00:53:45:29 today to your journey and, and hearing about your, your thesis.

00:53:45:32 - 00:53:48:24 I really think it's a pioneer in what you're doing

00:53:48:24 - 00:53:52:14 in the UAE and sort of championing the search for Tanzania.

00:53:52:14 - 00:53:55:22 We're delighted to hear of the progress that you've made and love

00:53:55:22 - 00:54:00:05 to loop back and hear how it's gone in 12 months time.

00:54:00:08 - 00:54:03:08 You're building such a vibrant region.

00:54:03:10 - 00:54:05:25 And yeah, I'm

00:54:05:25 - 00:54:08:09 absolutely amazed to hear of so much opportunity.

00:54:08:09 - 00:54:12:11 I'm sure some of our listeners are as well. So

00:54:12:13 - 00:54:15:10 folks check the show notes for links to connect

00:54:15:10 - 00:54:18:33 with Adam and learn a little bit more about our legacy.

00:54:19:02 - 00:54:21:26 But meanwhile, join me in saying Thanks, Adam.

00:54:21:26 - 00:54:25:29 And to everybody out there, keep on launching until next time.

00:54:25:31 - 00:54:26:32 Thanks. Thanks for having me.