Maisie: Page 94, the Private Eye Podcast

Andy: Hello and welcome to the miniseries.

We are now in the second half of the mini series of the shortlists

for this year's Paul Foot Award.

Let's find out with no further mucking about who today's shortlist is.

Jim Waterson: my name's Jim Watson and I am the editor of London Centric,

a new London news publication.

Andy: And what is the Paul Foot Award

shortlisted story that you've

written this

year?

Jim Waterson: the story is all about line bikes, which if you live in London or.

Another major city in the uk you might know as those ubiquitous, green rent by

the minute, e-bikes that are everywhere.

And there's been a lot of moans about the fact that they can block

pavements and things like that.

But the thing that I've really focused on is the, safety element and the

sort of power of a company that just went, okay, we are gonna just flood

a market with a load of devices that are basically unregulated and people

will rent them and not know whether.

A bit is going to fall off the bike, whether when they crash at high speed,

the design is even suitable for falling on top of them and perhaps injuring them.

And it all started 'cause one person said.

I've broken a leg and then a second reader got in touch to

say it's also broken my leg.

And then by the time a third and a fourth got in touch,

it's like there's a story here.

And so really it's as much about how I'm trying to do proper local journalism

where you just listen to what the public are telling you and you go and find

out why something's happening on the ground in the city that they live in.

Andy: So this is Reader generated.

This is your readers of London Centric getting in touch.

Jim Waterson: This is readers of London Centric getting in touch.

And at first I, I was a bit suspicious.

I wasn't sure I used the things, and I wanted to know why this was.

And I started phoning up consultants who work in trauma

wards across London and they said.

It's off the scale.

We are just getting loads and loads of people coming in, flying off these bikes.

And the, obviously injuries happen in any form of transport, but the thing that's

quite notable with this is that they said two things that people come off from.

One, the bikes have a design which they believe might be a flaw, which means that

when they fall on top of you, it basically acts like a pivot point and smashes your

leg against the concrete and shatters it

Andy: Yeah.

Jim Waterson: in a way that's.

heavy.

They're really heavy

Andy: and the battery's often a heavy bit.

They're all

Jim Waterson: combined with one

Andy: stalk.

And if it lands, then your leg gets in the way.

Jim Waterson: And the other one was that when bits fall off them.

They don't immediately get taken outta service.

So and it's all part of this, who owns the public realm in a city like London?

Who's in charge and who gets to set the rules because it isn't in

this case, transport for London.

It isn't the mayor, it isn't the boroughs.

It's a private Californian company who said, look.

We're gonna change the way that London operates.

We're gonna flood the streets of these things.

and there was no oversight on the design or their safety or maintenance.

And that just really interested me because who's in control when no

one's in charge, no one's in charge, no one's really got the ability to

limit these things on safety grounds.

Andy: And we should say, the details are incredibly grim.

People nearly losing legs, people nearly severing their femoral

artery, which can kill you easily.

is not a simple fracture that we're dealing with.

These are horrible incidents.

These people are, cycling in daytime and sober.

Jim Waterson: they're described as motorcycle style incidents.

some London surgeons now refer to it as line bike leg.

They just get so many of them coming in that their wards are full of them.

And one particular rider made the point to me that it's easy to dismiss

this in some ways, but they described it as 'a transfer of wealth from the

NHS to a Californian tech company.'

That the, The safety of the bike isn't up to the standards, which then means

that the NHS has to pick up the bill of fixing these people's legs back together.

And the irony is, and this is a really important part.

Almost everyone I spoke to really likes the product.

Andy: Right?

Jim Waterson: This is not,

Andy: they shouldn't,

Jim Waterson: no, I'm, a regular line bike rider myself.

The problem is that no one's really overseeing these things.

It's a bit like the same way that Uber, about 10, 15 years ago, turned up in the

UK cities and just went, we are going to, change the way the city operates.

And, governments will need to catch up with how we are doing our unregulated

approach to, a new form of transport.

Lime have pretty much done the same thing.

They've gone, we are just going to flood a major capital city with

these bikes and then the sort of effects will work out afterwards.

Andy: look, maybe this is a naive question, But if I wanted to set up a

razor blade, pogo stick transportation

company around London, are you saying no one would stop me with a dangerous

product that can do people real harm?

Jim Waterson: there'd be consumer protection laws in general, but,

and you might have the ability to sue the, operator of your

razor blade, po stick operator.

but the idea that it's not covered by existing regulatory systems.

you can't just start a, a rival black cab operator or something like that.

Yeah.

But there's not much to stop you moving into the e-bike market at the moment.

So it's just a case of the regulation hasn't kept up with

the reality on the ground.

And there's both the sort of clutter around London element

and I think, to be honest, more importantly, the safety element.

Andy: so

Consumers are clearly not being protected.

Jim Waterson: There's a growing number of lawsuits about this.

people are getting payouts from Lyme.

Andy: but if

I've broken my, leg, I don't wanna have to do the suing myself.

I want someone, I want what's provided to be at least reasonably safe.

We all know that accidents

Jim Waterson: And

Andy: cycling in London is sometimes not for the faint

Jim Waterson: Fainthearted.

Andy: But I'd like the thing that's

injuring

me to be

a

car rather than

my own hired bike.

Jim Waterson: this is the final bit really.

I took out a train mechanic, on the streets of London and we hired 50 line

bikes and we found about, 10 to 12% were.

so dangerous that he'd want them taken off the street immediately.

And it was interesting 'cause we talked to people riding them around.

They said, yeah, that fits with my experience.

quite often these bits fall off quite often A kid has knocked them out.

argument from the operator is, what can we do?

People are gonna kick the hell outta these things.

And the argument from the lawyers and the victims is, you've basically

sold me a defective product that isn't safe when I'm riding around.

Andy: Okay.

Jim Waterson: And I think that's, the interesting thing to unpick here,

like what's the level of risk and if there is gonna be a risk, what I feel

I've done with this story is at least alert people to it and tell them to.

Give a bike a good check over before they ride off at 15 miles an hour.

Andy: we should say the bikes weigh about 39 kilos and they're

Jim Waterson: They're very heavy

Andy: the

Jim Waterson: four

Andy: of what a normal bike weighs.

Jim Waterson: Yeah,

Andy: the irony is these were introduced partly because

e

scooters, which are popular in lots of European cities, are not legal

on

the road or on the pavement in the uk.

So it was a perfect opportunity to say, here's some personal transportation.

Because e scooters are so dangerous.

Jim Waterson: like half of all Londoners take a line bike.

it's basically a defacto new form of transport, which is

probably good.

but people just need to know what the risks are.

Yeah.

Andy: You're being very cautious and, as, you should be in reporting

this, I guess your next step, once you'd found the readers.

And the trauma, surgeons was to contact Lyme.

And what did they say when you got in touch?

Jim Waterson: I think one of my favorite things with it, as a publication, as a

startup publication was that initially they asked if I was a, print weekly,

publication and I got a local FOB off, and by the end it was the global head of

comms who was responding to my questions.

So I think they realized that this was actually gonna be a bit of a problem

for them as the stories progressed and as they got more and more pickup.

seen all of the national papers follow this up and it's become a bit of

a talking point around, the bikes.

that sort of shows the benefit of actually having someone on the ground who is able

to dedicate a few days at a time to each of these stories in this series going

around, checking things out and making sure that, there's actual reporting done

and not just repeating the press release.

It's 'cause so much local journalism online and all of these

things is, just basically copying and pasting the press release.

At best, maybe adding in a comment from an irate person on Twitter.

there's no one just kicking, literally kicking the tiles in this

case and seeing what's going on.

Andy: can I just check, what did they say to you when you asked them about

this

spate of leg smashing that's been going on?

Jim Waterson: in almost all cases people don't get their legs

smashed, which is definitely true.

But I think the people who are in a and e for weeks at a time, who now have

multiple metal pins holding their legs together, who spend an hour on the floor

in, a busy London street having come off, seemingly for no particular reason or

in one particular video I've seen having multiple bones sticking out of their leg.

I literally couldn't publish that one even though it was particularly shocking.

these people say, I just want them to get their act together basically, and

they need to actually put more money back into maintenance and not going

to their investors back in the States.

Andy: What about their tires?

Jim Waterson: And their tires.

They also, shifted from a German model to a, Chinese model.

the implication being that they were in some way moving to a cheaper model,

whether or not that's actually, more dangerous or not is something lime

of pushback strongly on, but there's definitely a thing that they are

like all tech companies going for growth at all costs and some of the

cost of that growth at all costs is coming onto the British taxpayer who's

paying to piece people back together.

And also the poor unfortunates who are wandering around with a bit of a hobble.

Now,

Andy: I know that you've reported that Lyme do pay for.

injuries, they do payouts, but the stipulations are

quite strict, aren't they?

they?

say, you need to be disabled really thoroughly, including, for example.

Complete loss of one kidney.

Jim Waterson: And I don't quite know how you'd manage to lose a

kidney in one of these accidents.

That would be, very impressive.

the end effect basically is, unless you really smash yourself

up permanently, you're not really insured on one of these things.

And that's why people are having to turn to lawyers to try and get payouts for the

loss of earnings for the time off work.

I've spoken to people who are still unable to walk.

A couple of years later.

Couple years later.

Yeah.

it's really permanently messed up their life.

Obviously you can injure yourself in all manner of ways, and as something

gets more popular, the, there's gonna be a risk this happening.

But I just think that people need to be aware of what product

they're using and the attitudes of the company that are running it.

Andy: I wanna ask a couple of questions about London centric, because

this is.

the, I

think newest of the outlets shortlisted for the awards this year.

It's, this is your outfit that you set up.

can you just tell us a bit about the.

genesis

of London centric 'cause I think it's really interesting about

how journalism is changing.

and,

Jim Waterson: Yeah.

So I used to be the media editor of The Guardian.

I covered a lot of the declining, terrible state of the local press

in the uk and eventually I went, I probably ought to do something about it.

I, left my job at The Guardian.

basically bought a laptop and went right.

How do we do local news then?

And what I decided to focus on was a handful of things, really

in depth power, accountability, interesting things not being boring,

and definitely not reproducing press releases just for the hell of it.

So where is your average local news website's just covered in ads?

it's chasing clicks.

Your reporters are being told to do eight stories a day.

Half of them are about something unrelated that they've seen on Twitter or the

middle aisle or oldie or whatever.

Andy: Yeah.

Jim Waterson: London centric promises, just a handful of in-depth things,

covered really well by someone who actually knows how to do journalism.

and crucially that works because people are willing to pay for it.

Some of the stuff is free, some of it you got to pay for.

I try not to be dull.

I try to make it interesting.

And the crucial thing is that thousands of people have gone,

okay, we really like the pitch.

We really like what you're producing,

Andy: Yeah.

Jim Waterson: and we'll pay to read it.

And that gives me the freedom and ability to actually go in depth, to not worry

about doing that clickbait headline that clogs up your social feed to do complete

rubbish that the council's putting out.

And to hold people like Sade Khan to account, and yeah, there's definitely a

touch of the private eye attitude in terms of digging into the financials for people,

not just accepting the press release line.

and trying to Piece together, the people I've already had my

fair number of legal threats.

It is terrifying.

It is slightly terrifying to be operating essentially as a sole operator.

I've got one reporter working with me now, but I am the editor, chief

reporter, chief content officer, the chief marketing officer, the legal

representative, the social media manager, everything rolled into one.

How are

Andy: dealing with these legal threats when they

Jim Waterson: in?

So you answer

Andy: as the lawyer, the in-house lawyer,

Jim Waterson: the, old job of the pa picking up the phone and

pretending to be someone else?

No, you just have to deal with them.

did pay one lawyer with a very expensive lunch, an old legal friend

to give some advice and I've now put things on a more formal footing.

'cause I think that's a bit sensible.

Andy: Yeah.

Jim Waterson: but I think it shows two things.

One, it is possible.

Running an absolute bare bones operation to do proper journalism, that not

everything is an end of days race to the bottom, and that people will

support things that they believe in.

, I also think it's enormously stressful and overwhelming at the same time, and that

I do slightly miss the days where a whole office of learned colleagues could guide

me through various proceeds, take things off my plate and help, get a story out.

Andy: as the chief reporter of

London Centric, Jim Waterton, would you like to thank your editor,

Jim Waterson: Jim Water, for all the support he's given you?

I think that, yeah, I think that'll be, I think that would have to be

the, the acceptance speech when inevitably this, story wins the award.

No, I, there's some incredibly strong entries here and, without sounding too

cheesy, I'm slightly overwhelmed to even be in the same category with a publication

that I launched only seven months ago, which is still run on, a shoestring.

Doesn't quite.

Describe it.

It's, it's, we're just about holding it together.

Andy: it's a terrific story.

I can't wait to find out what happens next with Lime as well.

And I'll be bringing my own bike into the center of town from now on.

Thank you very much, Jim.

Jim Waterson: Thank you.

Andy: Thanks to Jim.

Do cycle safely and we'll see you tomorrow for episode five.