1 00:00:00,351 --> 00:00:02,934 (upbeat music) 2 00:00:10,470 --> 00:00:12,120 - Welcome to "The Minor Consult," 3 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:14,340 where I speak with leaders shaping our world 4 00:00:14,340 --> 00:00:16,080 in diverse ways. 5 00:00:16,080 --> 00:00:20,190 Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by Arianna Huffington. 6 00:00:20,190 --> 00:00:22,170 Arianna is a global entrepreneur 7 00:00:22,170 --> 00:00:25,380 and internationally recognized business leader. 8 00:00:25,380 --> 00:00:29,130 She founded The Huffington Post, now known as HuffPost, 9 00:00:29,130 --> 00:00:31,350 and she's authored numerous books, 10 00:00:31,350 --> 00:00:35,910 exploring politics, society, history, and health. 11 00:00:35,910 --> 00:00:39,690 Now Arianna is the CEO of Thrive Global, 12 00:00:39,690 --> 00:00:42,450 a behavioral change company that she founded, 13 00:00:42,450 --> 00:00:46,470 focused on improving health and productivity. 14 00:00:46,470 --> 00:00:48,600 Recently, Thrive Global partnered 15 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,120 with the OpenAI Startup Fund 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,260 to form a new company called Thrive AI Health. 17 00:00:55,260 --> 00:00:57,060 Its goal is to leverage AI 18 00:00:57,060 --> 00:00:59,850 to provide personalized health coaching. 19 00:00:59,850 --> 00:01:02,370 Arianna, thank you for being here today, 20 00:01:02,370 --> 00:01:04,773 - Lloyd, it's so great to be with you. 21 00:01:05,850 --> 00:01:07,410 - Arianna, you and I have had the opportunity 22 00:01:07,410 --> 00:01:09,720 to discuss the importance of health and wellbeing 23 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,590 on several different occasions over the past several years. 24 00:01:13,590 --> 00:01:14,730 And for our listeners, 25 00:01:14,730 --> 00:01:18,240 what made you decide to pivot from The Huffington Post 26 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,930 and start a company focused on wellness? 27 00:01:21,930 --> 00:01:23,880 - So Lloyd, it really started 28 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,000 with my own personal wake-up call 29 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,330 when I collapsed from exhaustion, burnout, stress, 30 00:01:32,220 --> 00:01:37,220 and hit my head on my desk, broke my cheekbone. 31 00:01:37,230 --> 00:01:41,370 And that was the beginning of my recognizing 32 00:01:41,370 --> 00:01:45,180 that burnout wasn't just my personal problem, 33 00:01:45,180 --> 00:01:47,610 but a global epidemic. 34 00:01:47,610 --> 00:01:52,110 So I started covering these issues on The Huffington Post. 35 00:01:52,110 --> 00:01:54,067 I wrote two books on the subject, 36 00:01:54,067 --> 00:01:56,940 "Thrive" and "The Sleep Revolution." 37 00:01:56,940 --> 00:01:59,430 And then by 2016, 38 00:01:59,430 --> 00:02:03,000 I decided that I didn't just want to raise awareness, 39 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,800 which I could have continued doing through a media company. 40 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,090 I wanted to help people change behaviors. 41 00:02:12,090 --> 00:02:15,243 And as you know, changing behaviors is hard, 42 00:02:16,350 --> 00:02:18,420 but it's doable. 43 00:02:18,420 --> 00:02:20,520 And for that, 44 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,520 I needed to really delve 45 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,750 into the science of behavior change 46 00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:29,610 and launch a new company 47 00:02:29,610 --> 00:02:33,210 that was a behavior change technology company. 48 00:02:33,210 --> 00:02:36,360 And that's why I launched Thrive. 49 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,330 And it's been an amazing journey. 50 00:02:39,330 --> 00:02:42,660 And it's also a journey 51 00:02:42,660 --> 00:02:46,500 that has now led us to working 52 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:51,500 with the pharma companies, self-insured employers. 53 00:02:51,780 --> 00:02:55,590 And recognizing that these five key behaviors 54 00:02:55,590 --> 00:02:57,630 that Thrive works on, 55 00:02:57,630 --> 00:03:02,630 sleep, food, exercise, stress management, 56 00:03:03,390 --> 00:03:06,993 and connection, are not just for prevention. 57 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:12,660 They're also for optimizing the management of disease. 58 00:03:12,660 --> 00:03:14,610 And that's important to stress. 59 00:03:14,610 --> 00:03:17,820 Because when people talk about prevention, 60 00:03:17,820 --> 00:03:21,660 they think of it as something warm and fuzzy. 61 00:03:21,660 --> 00:03:26,580 And really, what the great need of healthcare is, 62 00:03:26,580 --> 00:03:28,020 is dealing with sickness. 63 00:03:28,020 --> 00:03:29,700 I mean, you've often talked, Lloyd, 64 00:03:29,700 --> 00:03:33,510 about the fact that we have a great sickcare system, 65 00:03:33,510 --> 00:03:36,030 but not a healthcare system. 66 00:03:36,030 --> 00:03:38,970 But it's also important to recognize 67 00:03:38,970 --> 00:03:43,890 that when people are sick, behaviors matter a lot. 68 00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:46,560 So that's what we are focusing on now, 69 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,943 and I feel there are a lot of tailwinds in the zeitgeist. 70 00:03:51,780 --> 00:03:53,340 - So Arianna, in the office, 71 00:03:53,340 --> 00:03:54,810 there's a common belief that you have 72 00:03:54,810 --> 00:03:57,570 to sacrifice your health to be productive. 73 00:03:57,570 --> 00:04:00,870 But Thrive Global's philosophy is that you can have both, 74 00:04:00,870 --> 00:04:05,100 and, in fact, that wellbeing is linked to productivity. 75 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:08,070 How did you shape Thrive Global around this idea? 76 00:04:08,070 --> 00:04:10,710 And what's your response to the pushback 77 00:04:10,710 --> 00:04:14,460 of this concept in the workplace culture? 78 00:04:14,460 --> 00:04:15,570 - Well, you know, Lloyd, 79 00:04:15,570 --> 00:04:19,440 we've been living under the collective delusion 80 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:24,440 that burnout is the price we pay for great performance, 81 00:04:24,810 --> 00:04:26,610 especially in Silicon Valley. 82 00:04:26,610 --> 00:04:28,890 You know, I was on the board of Uber, 83 00:04:28,890 --> 00:04:33,890 and we saw firsthand that delusion in action. 84 00:04:34,050 --> 00:04:37,860 And the science is unequivocal 85 00:04:37,860 --> 00:04:41,970 that when people are burnt out, when they're depleted, 86 00:04:41,970 --> 00:04:44,460 they don't operate at their best. 87 00:04:44,460 --> 00:04:46,893 They don't make the best decisions. 88 00:04:48,330 --> 00:04:51,030 They are less empathetic. 89 00:04:51,030 --> 00:04:54,840 They're less effective as leaders. 90 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:58,950 We're now in the middle of this huge transition. 91 00:04:58,950 --> 00:05:02,100 And you can see that transition 92 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:05,460 when you look at what people brag about. 93 00:05:05,460 --> 00:05:08,790 When I was at the beginnings of my career, 94 00:05:08,790 --> 00:05:11,377 and for many years after, people would brag, 95 00:05:11,377 --> 00:05:13,710 "I'll sleep when I'm dead. 96 00:05:13,710 --> 00:05:15,750 You snooze, you lose." 97 00:05:15,750 --> 00:05:17,520 And now you have people bragging 98 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,980 about how much sleep they got. 99 00:05:19,980 --> 00:05:24,870 Comparing, you know, their Oura Ring results and seeing, 100 00:05:24,870 --> 00:05:26,490 how much deep sleep did you get? 101 00:05:26,490 --> 00:05:29,640 How much REM sleep did you get? What was your HRV? 102 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,380 Did you get a crown? 103 00:05:31,380 --> 00:05:35,190 So we are in the middle of the shift. 104 00:05:35,190 --> 00:05:37,980 Obviously, there are many people 105 00:05:37,980 --> 00:05:41,010 who are still holding onto the idea 106 00:05:41,010 --> 00:05:44,700 that burnout is necessary for success. 107 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:46,800 But a lot of people are moving ahead, 108 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,383 and I think the culture is shifting. 109 00:05:50,340 --> 00:05:51,540 - That's great. 110 00:05:51,540 --> 00:05:54,180 So it's been nine years, nearly nine years, 111 00:05:54,180 --> 00:05:57,720 since Thrive Global was founded, you founded it, 112 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,480 and it's certainly blossomed during that period of time 113 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:05,480 and continues to thrive and grow and expand on its impact. 114 00:06:05,610 --> 00:06:08,010 You've attracted high-profile investors, 115 00:06:08,010 --> 00:06:10,560 partnered with Fortune 500 businesses, 116 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,050 and expanded your footprint globally. 117 00:06:13,050 --> 00:06:16,530 What's been your approach to growing Thrive Global? 118 00:06:16,530 --> 00:06:20,190 And maybe that could segue into Thrive Global 119 00:06:20,190 --> 00:06:22,710 and Thrive AI Health. 120 00:06:22,710 --> 00:06:27,690 - So Lloyd, I'm a huge believer in partnerships. 121 00:06:27,690 --> 00:06:31,953 I believe that while you can build everything on your own, 122 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,760 timing is everything. 123 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,760 And partnerships allow you to move faster 124 00:06:42,180 --> 00:06:45,750 and achieve more, more quickly. 125 00:06:45,750 --> 00:06:47,943 And that's been our philosophy. 126 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,160 We've partnered with companies. 127 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,470 We've partnered, as you mentioned, 128 00:06:55,470 --> 00:07:00,470 at the beginning with the OpenAI Startup Fund 129 00:07:01,710 --> 00:07:05,910 to launch a company dedicated 130 00:07:05,910 --> 00:07:09,720 to building an AI health coach, 131 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,990 which is a partnership I'm really excited about 132 00:07:12,990 --> 00:07:14,220 because, as you know, 133 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:19,220 AI is now in every part of healthcare. 134 00:07:20,250 --> 00:07:25,250 But the emphasis has been on improving diagnostics, 135 00:07:27,060 --> 00:07:32,060 accelerating the rate of drug development. 136 00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:35,580 What the AI health coach is about 137 00:07:35,580 --> 00:07:38,350 is bringing expert-level coaching 138 00:07:39,420 --> 00:07:42,363 to millions of people who don't have access to it. 139 00:07:43,230 --> 00:07:45,153 Because as you know, 140 00:07:45,990 --> 00:07:50,340 a lot of people with resources are already looking 141 00:07:50,340 --> 00:07:52,590 at these daily behaviors. 142 00:07:52,590 --> 00:07:55,260 They're already optimizing what they eat 143 00:07:55,260 --> 00:07:57,870 and how they exercise and how they sleep 144 00:07:57,870 --> 00:08:00,330 and how they deal with their stress. 145 00:08:00,330 --> 00:08:04,440 But the vast majority of people in this country are not. 146 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:05,273 - Yes. 147 00:08:05,273 --> 00:08:06,690 - And as you know, 148 00:08:06,690 --> 00:08:11,100 we have 130 million people with chronic diseases. 149 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:15,690 We have 30% of adolescents who are pre-diabetic. 150 00:08:15,690 --> 00:08:20,013 We have really unsustainable healthcare costs, 151 00:08:21,090 --> 00:08:23,610 which are not going to become sustainable 152 00:08:23,610 --> 00:08:25,863 if people don't change behaviors. 153 00:08:27,030 --> 00:08:30,393 So that's really what we are focusing on now. 154 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,687 And I find certain stories 155 00:08:38,190 --> 00:08:41,130 really alarming and inspiring 156 00:08:41,130 --> 00:08:44,013 at the same time to do differently and better. 157 00:08:45,390 --> 00:08:48,300 The latest story I was reading 158 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:53,300 in the New York Times is from a nurse 159 00:08:53,340 --> 00:08:56,730 who was describing her rounds in West Virginia, 160 00:08:56,730 --> 00:08:58,800 going from home to home, 161 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,220 visiting her patients who are all under 65. 162 00:09:02,220 --> 00:09:04,980 They were not Medicare patients. 163 00:09:04,980 --> 00:09:08,850 And she describes story after story. 164 00:09:08,850 --> 00:09:10,203 I'll just give you one. 165 00:09:11,460 --> 00:09:14,670 She visits a patient 166 00:09:14,670 --> 00:09:18,900 who is diabetic and has heart disease, 167 00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:20,580 and she describes her breakfast. 168 00:09:20,580 --> 00:09:22,990 She has just finished two Pepsis 169 00:09:24,330 --> 00:09:26,670 and something called peppermint combos, 170 00:09:26,670 --> 00:09:31,320 which are kind of chips with dyes and 43 ingredients. 171 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,397 And you look at that and you think, 172 00:09:33,397 --> 00:09:36,570 "This woman will never get well." 173 00:09:36,570 --> 00:09:38,130 - Right. Right. 174 00:09:38,130 --> 00:09:41,370 - And also, you know, her movements, 175 00:09:41,370 --> 00:09:43,200 we don't even call it exercise, 176 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,630 are from the couch to the bathroom. 177 00:09:45,630 --> 00:09:46,740 - Yes. 178 00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:48,390 - We need to change this, 179 00:09:48,390 --> 00:09:53,390 because as you know, our behaviors, 180 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,273 our lifestyle choices are more important than our genes. 181 00:09:59,070 --> 00:10:04,070 And yet, they have not been treated with a scientific rigor 182 00:10:04,290 --> 00:10:06,690 that we need to treat them with 183 00:10:06,690 --> 00:10:09,000 in order to elevate them 184 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,210 and make them kind of a companion of drugs, 185 00:10:12,210 --> 00:10:15,360 a companion of good medical care. 186 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:16,953 It's not either/or. 187 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:21,480 - That makes so much sense. 188 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,490 Could you walk us through an example? 189 00:10:23,490 --> 00:10:26,070 The story that you mentioned to us, 190 00:10:26,070 --> 00:10:28,380 there's so many things, 191 00:10:28,380 --> 00:10:30,720 so many opportunities there and challenges, 192 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,440 but you raise the issue of diet, for example, 193 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,450 and healthy eating. 194 00:10:36,450 --> 00:10:39,120 The issue of exercise or even, 195 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,090 as you've emphasized, I mean, exercise is great, 196 00:10:42,090 --> 00:10:46,500 but first, start moving as a precursor. 197 00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:51,360 And oftentimes, just increasing movement is enough 198 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,050 to dramatically change health trajectory. 199 00:10:55,050 --> 00:10:57,060 Could you walk through some of the steps 200 00:10:57,060 --> 00:11:00,150 that you're pursuing through Thrive AI Health 201 00:11:00,150 --> 00:11:04,650 and, you know, some of the real-world examples of how, 202 00:11:04,650 --> 00:11:08,850 you know, an AI health coach can help in the story 203 00:11:08,850 --> 00:11:11,340 that you mentioned to us and so many others? 204 00:11:11,340 --> 00:11:12,173 - Absolutely. 205 00:11:12,173 --> 00:11:15,570 So the key, Lloyd, 206 00:11:15,570 --> 00:11:20,160 is to start with what Thrive calls microsteps. 207 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:20,993 - Yes. 208 00:11:20,993 --> 00:11:22,290 - Because as you know, 209 00:11:22,290 --> 00:11:27,290 even if doctors mention nutrition or movement 210 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,120 or sleep to their patients, 211 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,440 they're more likely to use, like, generic recommendations. 212 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,813 Like, go on a Mediterranean diet, 213 00:11:37,860 --> 00:11:41,910 or walk 10,000 steps. 214 00:11:41,910 --> 00:11:43,800 And the truth of the matter is, 215 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,070 most people don't know what a Mediterranean diet is. 216 00:11:47,070 --> 00:11:48,360 - Sure. Sure. 217 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,120 - So we break it all down. 218 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,720 We break it down into tiny steps, 219 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,910 and we start with swaps even. 220 00:11:56,910 --> 00:11:59,227 You can't tell people, 221 00:11:59,227 --> 00:12:03,780 "Go from two Pepsis a day to water." 222 00:12:03,780 --> 00:12:05,196 - Yes. 223 00:12:05,196 --> 00:12:07,260 - But, you know, there are healthier sodas 224 00:12:07,260 --> 00:12:09,300 that have less sugar. 225 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:10,650 So you start somewhere. 226 00:12:10,650 --> 00:12:13,230 My point is that if you want people 227 00:12:13,230 --> 00:12:18,093 to sustain healthier habits, you need to start small. 228 00:12:19,230 --> 00:12:22,710 So you build that muscle of success. 229 00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:25,830 And we've worked on that behavior change methodology 230 00:12:25,830 --> 00:12:28,724 for over eight years now. 231 00:12:28,724 --> 00:12:32,970 So the AI coach is trained not 232 00:12:32,970 --> 00:12:35,370 on the whole of the web, 233 00:12:35,370 --> 00:12:39,420 but on Thrive's behavior change methodology, 234 00:12:39,420 --> 00:12:41,133 our thousands of microsteps, 235 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:46,770 and great content that is engaging. 236 00:12:46,770 --> 00:12:50,703 Just to give you an example, we have produced a recipe book, 237 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,190 but we asked famous chefs, like Ina Garten, 238 00:12:56,190 --> 00:13:01,190 Jose Andres, to donate recipes that had five ingredients 239 00:13:01,860 --> 00:13:05,400 or less and nothing expensive. 240 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:06,270 - Good. 241 00:13:06,270 --> 00:13:08,190 - So you can look at that recipe, 242 00:13:08,190 --> 00:13:10,590 and it's something you can do. 243 00:13:10,590 --> 00:13:13,770 It's something that's not expensive. 244 00:13:13,770 --> 00:13:17,130 And having people learn to cook... 245 00:13:17,130 --> 00:13:18,780 Oh, here. I have to show it to you. 246 00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:19,870 I'll send it to you, Lloyd. 247 00:13:19,870 --> 00:13:23,340 - Oh, thank you, thank you. That's wonderful. 248 00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:26,970 - And that way you get people engaged 249 00:13:26,970 --> 00:13:29,520 in their own health and wellbeing. 250 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,480 - That's really exciting and so impactful. 251 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,400 You know, what are some of the obstacles 252 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:36,480 that you're navigating? 253 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,080 A general problem in behavior change has been adherence, 254 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,080 or what starts out as being engaging 255 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,070 and has people's interest, then people lose interest. 256 00:13:47,070 --> 00:13:48,510 They move on to other things, 257 00:13:48,510 --> 00:13:51,570 or it just becomes cumbersome. 258 00:13:51,570 --> 00:13:55,710 So how do you create an AI experience that inspires people 259 00:13:55,710 --> 00:13:59,520 to adopt behaviors, to stick with the behaviors, 260 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,210 and to really see the benefits in terms of their health 261 00:14:03,210 --> 00:14:05,736 from adopting new habits? 262 00:14:05,736 --> 00:14:09,810 - Actually, seeing the benefits from these healthier habits 263 00:14:09,810 --> 00:14:13,230 is one of the ways to keep people adherent. 264 00:14:13,230 --> 00:14:14,190 - Yes. 265 00:14:14,190 --> 00:14:17,670 - And that's why if you start small, 266 00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:21,420 we call our microsteps too small to fail, 267 00:14:21,420 --> 00:14:23,580 and you begin to see results, 268 00:14:23,580 --> 00:14:26,550 you are likely to stay adherent, 269 00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:29,070 including with your medications. 270 00:14:29,070 --> 00:14:31,050 Because as you know, Lloyd, 271 00:14:31,050 --> 00:14:34,050 adherence is one of the big problems 272 00:14:34,050 --> 00:14:37,110 with even the most lifesaving medicines. 273 00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:38,580 - Absolutely. Yes. 274 00:14:38,580 --> 00:14:43,380 - And when we work with users 275 00:14:43,380 --> 00:14:46,050 who are on medications, 276 00:14:46,050 --> 00:14:49,500 because we are working with their daily behaviors, 277 00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:52,950 and we are in their lives and know their routines, 278 00:14:52,950 --> 00:14:55,380 and the coach is going to know all that, 279 00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:58,320 they're much more likely to be adherent. 280 00:14:58,320 --> 00:14:59,250 - Right. 281 00:14:59,250 --> 00:15:01,830 - You know, Kevin Volpp and David Asch 282 00:15:01,830 --> 00:15:03,840 who are behavioral change economists, 283 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,690 who are on scientific advisory board, 284 00:15:06,690 --> 00:15:09,510 they call of this concept of a polypill. 285 00:15:09,510 --> 00:15:12,150 A behavioral polypill, 286 00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:16,770 where your behaviors are augmenting the value 287 00:15:16,770 --> 00:15:17,973 of the medicine. 288 00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:22,920 Because even the most lifesaving medicine doesn't work 289 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:24,840 if you don't take it. 290 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:25,710 - Exactly. 291 00:15:25,710 --> 00:15:28,473 - And one of the other ways that will work, 292 00:15:30,390 --> 00:15:35,390 supplementing and augmenting the benefit of medicines, 293 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,640 is by helping people 294 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:45,060 mitigate and navigate side effects. 295 00:15:45,060 --> 00:15:45,893 - Right. 296 00:15:45,893 --> 00:15:48,690 - Including, you know, with GLP-1s. 297 00:15:48,690 --> 00:15:51,240 We've created wraparound services 298 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:56,040 for GLP-1s that we've brought 299 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,280 to Eli Lilly and LillyDirect. 300 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:00,780 And we are also bringing 301 00:16:00,780 --> 00:16:05,010 to different companies self-insured employees we work with. 302 00:16:05,010 --> 00:16:08,820 Because a lot of people who go on GLP-1s, 303 00:16:08,820 --> 00:16:12,130 they don't have, like, a training manual of how to eat. 304 00:16:12,130 --> 00:16:13,260 - Sure. Sure. 305 00:16:13,260 --> 00:16:14,250 - So very often, 306 00:16:14,250 --> 00:16:17,000 they just continue to eat junk, but less junk. 307 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,260 - (laughs) Right, right. 308 00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:23,163 - And that really leads to terrible side effects. 309 00:16:24,810 --> 00:16:27,333 The same if they don't drink enough water, 310 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,230 or if they don't exercise. 311 00:16:31,230 --> 00:16:34,143 They're more likely to lose muscle mass. 312 00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:37,140 So all these things, you know, 313 00:16:37,140 --> 00:16:39,600 need to be very clearly explained. 314 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,180 And you need a coach. 315 00:16:42,180 --> 00:16:45,030 And obviously, most people can't afford 316 00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:46,410 to have a personal coach. 317 00:16:46,410 --> 00:16:50,400 So that's where the AI coach comes in 318 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,940 to help you be more successful 319 00:16:53,940 --> 00:16:58,940 on whatever medication you are on, including GLP-1s. 320 00:17:01,110 --> 00:17:02,430 - Arianna, on a broader scale, 321 00:17:02,430 --> 00:17:04,080 you've written about your belief 322 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,990 that AI can help us become better people. 323 00:17:06,990 --> 00:17:08,550 Why do you think this is? 324 00:17:08,550 --> 00:17:10,923 And how do you think this could happen? 325 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,450 - So, you know, Lloyd, when we talk about AI, 326 00:17:15,450 --> 00:17:19,620 we talk a lot about, how can we make AI more human? 327 00:17:19,620 --> 00:17:21,030 - Yes. 328 00:17:21,030 --> 00:17:26,030 - How can we make AI reflect our human values? 329 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,470 But I'm really very interested in, 330 00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:32,940 how can we get AI to help us become more human? 331 00:17:32,940 --> 00:17:35,310 Because we're at bit of a crossroads 332 00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:39,900 where people are more polarized than ever, 333 00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:43,950 angrier than ever, anxious, depressed. 334 00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:47,340 So how can we have AI help us connect 335 00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:49,503 with the better angels of our nature? 336 00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:52,900 And it really starts with 337 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,510 how you see human nature. 338 00:17:57,510 --> 00:18:00,180 I mean, I see all of us 339 00:18:00,180 --> 00:18:04,233 as being a mixture of good and bad, 340 00:18:05,490 --> 00:18:08,100 as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn put it, 341 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:12,090 that the line between good and evil goes 342 00:18:12,090 --> 00:18:14,613 through each man's heart. 343 00:18:15,660 --> 00:18:17,250 It's not that these are, like, 344 00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:20,310 all the good people and these are all the bad people. 345 00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:23,913 So how can we reinforce what is best in us? 346 00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:28,740 So I believe that the AI coach, 347 00:18:28,740 --> 00:18:31,660 because it's going to be onboarded 348 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,520 with incredible data about each one of us, 349 00:18:38,550 --> 00:18:43,040 because of this power of hyperpersonalization 350 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,280 and incredible memory, you know, as you know, 351 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:52,135 it'll soon be able to have, like, trillions of data points. 352 00:18:52,135 --> 00:18:52,968 You know, if you go 353 00:18:52,968 --> 00:18:57,968 to the Greek philosopher admonition "know thyself," 354 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,010 you know, well, the AI coach is going to know us much better 355 00:19:02,010 --> 00:19:03,240 than we know ourselves, 356 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,270 because we don't remember everything about ourselves. 357 00:19:06,270 --> 00:19:07,103 - Sure. 358 00:19:07,103 --> 00:19:10,980 - So it'll be onboarded not just on our biometric data, 359 00:19:10,980 --> 00:19:15,060 lab data, medical data, but also our preferences, 360 00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:19,320 like what foods we like, what helps us go to sleep, 361 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,030 how we like to exercise. 362 00:19:21,030 --> 00:19:25,050 But also, it's going to be onboarded 363 00:19:25,050 --> 00:19:27,960 on things you love 364 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,510 that connect you with a deeper part of yourself. 365 00:19:30,510 --> 00:19:35,340 You play the cello. Music is very important to you. 366 00:19:35,340 --> 00:19:37,890 So the coach will know that. 367 00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:39,960 So if you're in a moment of stress, 368 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,203 it'll feed you some cello music. 369 00:19:44,190 --> 00:19:46,560 You know, it'll feed you something 370 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,543 that resonates with you, specifically. 371 00:19:54,510 --> 00:19:57,330 Even people who consider themselves atheists, 372 00:19:57,330 --> 00:20:00,330 they may have a piece of poetry they love, 373 00:20:00,330 --> 00:20:04,440 or a hymn from their childhood, 374 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,700 or a sacred text that can help connect us 375 00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:10,923 with something deeper in ourselves. 376 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,990 So we see the coach obviously primarily helping 377 00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:18,270 people become healthier, 378 00:20:18,270 --> 00:20:21,960 but also helping people become more connected 379 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,343 with their essence. 380 00:20:24,930 --> 00:20:28,290 So that's why we call among ourselves the coach, 381 00:20:28,290 --> 00:20:32,913 not just a health coach, but the GPS for our soul. 382 00:20:34,830 --> 00:20:36,360 - That's wonderful. 383 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:37,650 You know, Arianna, 384 00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:40,110 you're a recognized and accomplished leader. 385 00:20:40,110 --> 00:20:43,920 You've founded two successful international companies. 386 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,900 What are some of the key lessons you've learned 387 00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:47,220 about leadership? 388 00:20:47,220 --> 00:20:49,470 And were there any eye-opening mistakes 389 00:20:49,470 --> 00:20:51,183 that provided an epiphany? 390 00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:54,354 - Oh, lots of them. (laughs) 391 00:20:54,354 --> 00:20:57,420 (Lloyd laughs) 392 00:20:57,420 --> 00:21:00,090 You know, just a very practical mistake. 393 00:21:00,090 --> 00:21:02,670 I think the biggest mistakes I have made 394 00:21:02,670 --> 00:21:05,103 as a leader are hiring mistakes. 395 00:21:06,270 --> 00:21:08,520 You know, hiring the wrong person, 396 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:13,173 especially in a senior position, is so draining. 397 00:21:15,180 --> 00:21:17,100 You lose so much time. 398 00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:17,933 - Yes. 399 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,570 - And I discovered, 400 00:21:21,570 --> 00:21:26,570 as I analyzed my wrong hiring decisions, 401 00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:29,280 that every hiring mistake I made, 402 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,710 I made when I was exhausted. 403 00:21:31,710 --> 00:21:32,610 - Hmm. Yes. 404 00:21:32,610 --> 00:21:34,410 - You know when you're exhausted 405 00:21:34,410 --> 00:21:38,070 and you are interviewing for a job, 406 00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:39,960 and all you really want to do 407 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,870 is cross this thing off your to-do list? 408 00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:43,703 - Yes. Yes. 409 00:21:43,703 --> 00:21:46,469 - You don't want to go interview somebody else. 410 00:21:46,469 --> 00:21:48,360 (Lloyd laughs) 411 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:52,660 So I kind of overruled the red flags 412 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,880 that a more intuitive and wiser part of myself was aware of. 413 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:01,890 So that's just one thing. 414 00:22:01,890 --> 00:22:03,840 But the bigger thing, 415 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,840 the most important thing for me as a leader is, 416 00:22:08,970 --> 00:22:11,883 how can you be in the eye of the hurricane? 417 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,290 At any time, but especially right now 418 00:22:16,290 --> 00:22:20,490 when we live in times of radical uncertainty 419 00:22:20,490 --> 00:22:23,433 and many, many challenges, 420 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,200 how can you, I, all of us, as leaders, 421 00:22:32,910 --> 00:22:35,880 stay centered and unflappable 422 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,983 in the middle of whatever is happening? 423 00:22:37,983 --> 00:22:39,390 - Yes. Yes. 424 00:22:39,390 --> 00:22:43,290 - And my favorite leadership manual 425 00:22:43,290 --> 00:22:46,410 that I actually have on my nightstand 426 00:22:46,410 --> 00:22:49,500 and I read at least a page or two every night, 427 00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:51,480 even though I've read it multiple times 428 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:52,530 from beginning to end, 429 00:22:52,530 --> 00:22:55,797 is Marcus Aurelius's book "Meditations." 430 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,500 And there reason for that is 431 00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:03,500 that Marcus Aurelius was the emperor of Rome for 19 years. 432 00:23:05,340 --> 00:23:06,900 He faced everything. 433 00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:10,683 You know, challenges, invasions, betrayals. 434 00:23:12,210 --> 00:23:16,200 And he always managed to stay in the eye of the hurricane 435 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:17,613 and write about it. 436 00:23:19,140 --> 00:23:20,070 And I love that 437 00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:23,700 because sometimes when I tell my CEO friends, 438 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:26,850 you know, "Make sure you take time to recharge 439 00:23:26,850 --> 00:23:28,080 and renew yourself, 440 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,023 because when you are depleted and exhausted, 441 00:23:31,950 --> 00:23:36,950 it's much easier to be overreactive 442 00:23:39,030 --> 00:23:41,160 and overanxious about everything," 443 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,610 and they say to me, "Arianna, I don't have time for that," 444 00:23:44,610 --> 00:23:46,200 my is answer is, "Well, you know, 445 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,183 Marcus Aurelius was busy, too." 446 00:23:48,183 --> 00:23:50,280 (Lloyd laughs) 447 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,710 He found time for that. 448 00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:55,740 So for me, that's the biggest, 449 00:23:55,740 --> 00:23:57,780 biggest quality of leadership 450 00:23:57,780 --> 00:24:02,040 because then we can navigate anything 451 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,900 and handle anything. 452 00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:06,060 And sometimes leaders think they have 453 00:24:06,060 --> 00:24:10,380 to emulate the frenetic pace of our times. 454 00:24:10,380 --> 00:24:13,680 And I think that's the worst thing we can do. 455 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,600 - Sure. Sure. 456 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,890 On a related note, 457 00:24:16,890 --> 00:24:19,440 what do you think are the most essential values 458 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,003 for a company to thrive? 459 00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:25,110 - So I think the most essential values are 460 00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:29,080 to bring all these microsteps 461 00:24:30,930 --> 00:24:34,570 to help leaders and every employee 462 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:39,370 be most connected with their essence 463 00:24:41,220 --> 00:24:43,860 and what makes them most effective 464 00:24:43,860 --> 00:24:46,353 to bring them into the flow of work. 465 00:24:47,670 --> 00:24:49,653 How can we make it easy? 466 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,840 Because we need to eliminate the friction 467 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,530 and we need to minimize 468 00:24:58,530 --> 00:25:02,883 how many healthy behaviors depend on our willpower. 469 00:25:04,110 --> 00:25:04,943 - Yes. 470 00:25:05,790 --> 00:25:08,970 - So let me give you one example, Lloyd. 471 00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:09,803 - Sure. 472 00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:15,423 - Reducing stress in our everyday lives is key. 473 00:25:16,410 --> 00:25:19,050 Eliminating stress is impossible. 474 00:25:19,050 --> 00:25:22,200 Like, there is no life, 475 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,113 no job that does not include stress. 476 00:25:26,010 --> 00:25:30,820 But we can eliminate cumulative stress 477 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,470 by interrupting the stress cycles. 478 00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:39,470 And there is a lot of neuroscience that shows us that 479 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,480 in 60 to 90 seconds of conscious breathing, 480 00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:48,360 of focusing on what makes us grateful 481 00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:51,600 and brings joy into our lives, 482 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,620 we can interrupt the stress cycle. 483 00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:59,310 And that's kind of probably my favorite feature 484 00:25:59,310 --> 00:26:00,750 on the Thrive platform, 485 00:26:00,750 --> 00:26:04,440 and, of course, it's going to be on the Thrive AI coach, 486 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,563 which is 60-second resets, we call them. 487 00:26:08,970 --> 00:26:11,700 So the platform and the coach will come 488 00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:15,000 with hundreds of preloaded resets 489 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,293 to focus on your breathing, images and music, 490 00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:24,150 to basically move us to a different modality. 491 00:26:24,150 --> 00:26:28,803 But my favorite is when you create your own personal resets. 492 00:26:29,790 --> 00:26:32,640 I have to create one for you, Lloyd, 493 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,640 you know, with the people in your life who bring you joy, 494 00:26:37,860 --> 00:26:40,740 quotes that are meaningful to you. 495 00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:42,510 I love the quote you use, 496 00:26:42,510 --> 00:26:45,990 the French quote from your commencement 497 00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:50,910 at Stanford about wherever you are planted, 498 00:26:50,910 --> 00:26:52,473 bloom with grace. 499 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,210 I love that. Music that you love. 500 00:26:57,210 --> 00:27:00,423 And then, I promise you, in 60 seconds, 501 00:27:01,830 --> 00:27:04,860 you can suddenly be connected 502 00:27:04,860 --> 00:27:08,850 with what you love about your life at the very moment 503 00:27:08,850 --> 00:27:11,820 when you may not love your life very much. 504 00:27:11,820 --> 00:27:13,170 - I think that's so important. 505 00:27:13,170 --> 00:27:16,410 And taking that theme a bit further, you know, 506 00:27:16,410 --> 00:27:18,660 in a previous fireside chat, Arianna, 507 00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:20,640 that you and I had a few years ago, 508 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,730 we talked about how to manage the mental health challenges 509 00:27:23,730 --> 00:27:25,533 associated with the pandemic. 510 00:27:26,610 --> 00:27:28,710 Since that time, our country has continued 511 00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:31,230 to see a deepening of our mental health crisis, 512 00:27:31,230 --> 00:27:34,080 with many people reporting barriers to care. 513 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,570 What do you think is driving this increase 514 00:27:36,570 --> 00:27:37,920 in the mental health crisis? 515 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,400 And what are some approaches, including AI, 516 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,680 that you think could help us most 517 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,650 as individuals and as communities? 518 00:27:46,650 --> 00:27:51,650 - So, you know, Lloyd, in partnership with Stanford, 519 00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:55,140 we created a thriving mind curriculum, 520 00:27:55,140 --> 00:27:57,990 which has been incredibly effective 521 00:27:57,990 --> 00:28:02,430 and which used some of the best brain science work 522 00:28:02,430 --> 00:28:05,190 that Stanford has done, 523 00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:09,570 to actually help employees in dozens 524 00:28:09,570 --> 00:28:11,610 of multinational companies. 525 00:28:11,610 --> 00:28:13,650 And it's been unbelievably effective, 526 00:28:13,650 --> 00:28:17,640 and I'm very grateful to you and your teams for that. 527 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,280 What we're now seeing is 528 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,130 that maybe it's time for us 529 00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:27,090 to stop separating mental health from physical health. 530 00:28:27,090 --> 00:28:28,470 - Exactly. 531 00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:32,880 - Because there's so much scientific data 532 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,840 that shows us that these behaviors 533 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,310 that I mentioned, 534 00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:42,330 of how you sleep and what you eat and how you move, 535 00:28:42,330 --> 00:28:47,070 are very central to also our depression, anxiety, 536 00:28:47,070 --> 00:28:49,470 and other mental health conditions. 537 00:28:49,470 --> 00:28:50,760 - Yes. 538 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,283 - And, you know, 539 00:28:52,283 --> 00:28:55,560 I think the Mayo Clinic was just given a big grant 540 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:56,760 to study that. 541 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,320 To study the impact of our metabolic health. 542 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:02,733 on our mental health. 543 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,873 So that's something that I'm really excited about. 544 00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:11,460 You know, we know, it's so easy to see, 545 00:29:11,460 --> 00:29:14,220 that when you're sleep deprived, 546 00:29:14,220 --> 00:29:16,680 you are more likely to be depressed. 547 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,230 - Arianna, this has been such a wonderful conversation, 548 00:29:19,230 --> 00:29:22,950 and I wanna end with two questions that I ask all my guests. 549 00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:25,920 First, what do you think are the most important qualities 550 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,423 for a leader today? 551 00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:31,320 - Well, definitely what I mentioned. 552 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,430 You know, being able to be in the eye of the hurricane, 553 00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:37,320 to model this behavior. 554 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,230 Because people look to leaders 555 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,700 for how to be themselves, 556 00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:47,010 for cultural permission, 557 00:29:47,010 --> 00:29:51,060 to take care of themselves, to renew themselves. 558 00:29:51,060 --> 00:29:52,920 And also, I think, 559 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,150 we are in a very good place now compared 560 00:29:57,150 --> 00:29:59,790 to where we were even a few years ago, 561 00:29:59,790 --> 00:30:04,590 where leaders realized that having people 562 00:30:04,590 --> 00:30:06,420 in their organization 563 00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:11,160 who may be brilliant or amazing, 564 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,900 but they're really people 565 00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:17,763 who are not empathetic, 566 00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:23,547 who are not able to be good team collaborators, 567 00:30:25,890 --> 00:30:29,460 is really, in the end, costing the business. 568 00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:33,300 You know, one way I like to say that 569 00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:35,833 is no brilliant jerks allowed. 570 00:30:35,833 --> 00:30:37,110 (Lloyd laughs) 571 00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:39,317 You know, you may be brilliant, 572 00:30:39,317 --> 00:30:41,163 but if you are toxic, 573 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,693 it's going to affect everyone around you. 574 00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:48,750 - Exactly. 575 00:30:48,750 --> 00:30:51,153 And finally, what gives you hope for the future? 576 00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:54,660 - Well, first of all, Lloyd, you know, 577 00:30:54,660 --> 00:30:56,700 I'm a congenital optimist, 578 00:30:56,700 --> 00:30:59,250 and I love that you are, too. - It's great. Yes. 579 00:30:59,250 --> 00:31:01,440 - You know, I'm Greek, 580 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,475 so I think it's in our DNA. 581 00:31:03,475 --> 00:31:06,870 (Lloyd and Arianna laughs) 582 00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:10,230 And I believe that right now, you know, 583 00:31:10,230 --> 00:31:12,840 there are so many breakdowns. 584 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,110 And we can focus on the breakdowns, 585 00:31:16,110 --> 00:31:18,933 but there also are a lot of breakthroughs. 586 00:31:20,190 --> 00:31:25,190 And one of the things I'm really most excited about 587 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,160 is that people are focusing again 588 00:31:31,290 --> 00:31:33,873 on life's spiritual dimension. 589 00:31:34,770 --> 00:31:38,010 That has always been very important to me. 590 00:31:38,010 --> 00:31:40,020 And I wrote a book, actually. 591 00:31:40,020 --> 00:31:41,730 Don't worry if you haven't heard about it. 592 00:31:41,730 --> 00:31:45,343 I think it sold three copies. (laughs) 593 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:51,560 I wrote it in 1994, called "The Fourth Instinct." 594 00:31:52,170 --> 00:31:56,640 And the theme of the book was that most biologists 595 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,640 and psychologists talk about three instincts 596 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,030 to explain human behavior: 597 00:32:03,030 --> 00:32:08,030 survival, sex, and power/status. 598 00:32:09,450 --> 00:32:13,380 But if you look at human behavior through history, 599 00:32:13,380 --> 00:32:17,400 these three instincts do not explain it. 600 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,920 They do not explain altruistic behavior. 601 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,780 They do not explain so many people putting their own lives 602 00:32:24,780 --> 00:32:29,190 at risk to save Jews during the Second World War. 603 00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:34,190 They do not explain incredible acts of heroism and giving. 604 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,530 And they do not explain mystical experiences. 605 00:32:37,530 --> 00:32:41,500 They do not explain what we all feel 606 00:32:42,990 --> 00:32:45,240 when we listen to a piece of music, 607 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:50,240 or we give birth, or, you know, these great moments of life. 608 00:32:52,260 --> 00:32:57,260 So I believe right now we've paid such a heavy price, 609 00:32:57,810 --> 00:33:00,210 because in throwing away religion, 610 00:33:00,210 --> 00:33:03,360 we throw out the baby with the bathwater. 611 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,193 - Sure. 612 00:33:04,193 --> 00:33:06,870 - And if you look at what's happening in our culture, 613 00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:10,383 if you look at the incredible political polarization, 614 00:33:11,370 --> 00:33:14,410 I think people have replaced politics 615 00:33:17,070 --> 00:33:20,070 with religion, or religion with politics. 616 00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:21,900 - Politics. Right. 617 00:33:21,900 --> 00:33:24,873 - So, you know, if you think of it, 618 00:33:27,660 --> 00:33:32,280 if somebody doesn't share your religious belief, 619 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,713 you tend to think of them as heretics. 620 00:33:35,610 --> 00:33:38,730 And heretics should be burned at the stake. 621 00:33:38,730 --> 00:33:40,680 And we see that with politics. 622 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,870 If somebody doesn't share your belief, 623 00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:44,313 you want them canceled. 624 00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:47,793 So we need to look at all that. 625 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,530 And we have some amazing numbers now 626 00:33:52,530 --> 00:33:54,930 from the latest Pew research poll 627 00:33:54,930 --> 00:33:58,290 of how many people call themselves spiritual 628 00:33:58,290 --> 00:33:59,370 and not religious. 629 00:33:59,370 --> 00:34:02,250 And for me, the key is to integrate 630 00:34:02,250 --> 00:34:04,533 that spiritual dimension in our lives. 631 00:34:05,826 --> 00:34:09,990 It doesn't have to be any particular organized religion. 632 00:34:09,990 --> 00:34:12,330 It's just, in some way or another, 633 00:34:12,330 --> 00:34:16,443 reconnecting with that deeper part of ourselves. 634 00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:21,090 - Well, Arianna, this has been a magnificent conversation. 635 00:34:21,090 --> 00:34:24,720 As always, always learn a lot from our discussions, 636 00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:28,320 and I know that our listeners do and will as well. 637 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,320 And thank you for listening to "The Minor Consult" with me, 638 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,660 Stanford School of Medicine dean Lloyd Minor. 639 00:34:33,660 --> 00:34:35,580 I hope you enjoyed today's discussion 640 00:34:35,580 --> 00:34:40,580 with Arianna Huffington, founder and CEO of Thrive Global. 641 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,930 Please send your questions by email 642 00:34:42,930 --> 00:34:45,780 to TheMinorConsult@TheMinorConsult.com, 643 00:34:45,780 --> 00:34:48,870 and check out our website, theminorconsult.com, 644 00:34:48,870 --> 00:34:51,780 for updates, episodes, and more. 645 00:34:51,780 --> 00:34:54,210 To get the latest episodes of "The Minor Consult," 646 00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:57,270 subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 647 00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:59,370 or wherever you listen. 648 00:34:59,370 --> 00:35:01,380 Thank you so much for joining me today. 649 00:35:01,380 --> 00:35:03,210 I look forward to our next episode. 650 00:35:03,210 --> 00:35:07,029 Until then, stay safe, stay well, and be kind. 651 00:35:07,029 --> 00:35:09,696 (upbeat music)