Narrator: This podcast is intended to support UK healthcare

professionals with education.

The information provided in this podcast is not a substitute for professional

medical advice or treatment, and patients are encouraged to consult

healthcare providers, including nurses for any medical questions or concerns.

Hannah: Welcome to Stoma and Continence, conversations from Coloplast Professional.

Where healthcare professionals and experts by experience discuss the latest

hot topics in the worlds of stoma, continence, care, and specialist practice.

I am Hannah Patterson.

I've worked in specialist care and I'm currently the Ostomy Care Associate

Education Manager at Coloplast.

This time we're looking at the prevention and management of peristomal hernias.

Sophie: I think they say it's something like up to like nearly 70% of ostomate

are likely to get a peristomal hernia.

I was getting blockages all the time, and it turned out that

was because of the hernia, and then I've got kinks in my bowel.

Please don't believe.

If you're gonna buy a product or get a product via the NHS, that

it's gonna prevent it happening.

Hannah: Hello and welcome to the podcast.

Today we are looking at the prevention and management of peristomal hernias.

Uh, once again, I bow to.

Better judgment and better opinion, and I bring along some of my dream team.

So two of our experts by experience.

Uh, these are two voices you will recognize.

We've had them on quite a few of our podcasts.

So I'm gonna bring in Sophie and Steve, I'll start with you.

Sophie.

Sophie: How you doing?

Good.

Thank you Hannah.

Yeah, nice to be here.

I feel like a piece of furniture now for the, um, podcast.

Hannah: You're, you, you are very much a piece of the podcast furniture now.

Now, in case anyone hasn't heard of you before though, why they wouldn't

have done if they've listened to our podcast, I'm not quite sure.

But just give everybody listening a little brief introduction to yourself.

Sophie: So I'm Sophie from Southeast 39 and I have got an ileostomy

stoma due to ulcerative colitis and serrated polyposis syndrome.

Hannah: Thank you.

And then my main man, my fellow Brummy.

Steve, how are you doing?

Steve: How you doing?

Yeah, Han.

So I'm Steve, I'm 55.

From Birmingham.

Ulcerative Colis was the cause of my ileostomy and had that in 2015.

That's me.

Hannah: Fantastic.

Now, I think it would be fair to say with the pair of you guys, you are both

quite experienced when it comes to.

Hernias, aren't you?

Well, I'd like to think I wasn't, but clearly I found out I was.

So I'm gonna come to you first of all, Steve, because your hernia

story goes a little bit further back than Sophie's, doesn't it?

So you said you was 2015 when you had your stoma.

When did you first become aware that you had a peristomal hernia?

Steve: I think it was about, uh, 2018.

Literally, I'd eaten a load of nuts.

I was sort of going through the process of basically eat what

you want until something doesn't, something doesn't fit right.

Anyway, I'd had, I'd had numerous blockages through trial and error

for eating different foods and thinking, okay, that doesn't work.

I remember I was going around the supermarket and I'd this

bag nuts for I got to the end.

And I'd had no drink and, um, on the nighttime had a blockage and it was

either a sneezing fit or a coughing fit.

I can't remember which.

But, um, the final sneeze or cough, I just felt everything disappear outta my

bag and the blockage was, was, was over.

There was no more blockage, but I felt like, I definitely felt like a tear.

And that was the start of my first parasoma hernia.

Hannah: So your first experience was quite an obvious experience

of a peristomal hernia.

At that point.

It was very obvious that was what was an issue at that point to you.

So I said you actually felt something going on down there,

and what happened from that point?

Well, the

Steve: whole world.

The whole world let went through my stoma.

I was in.

We'll know that off, off having nuts.

Honestly, I was, I, I had a bang of shower and it just shut up the

ball and, and I thought, phew, you know, at least this movement.

But yeah, no, it was definitely painful.

And, um, I dunno, I'd had blockages before and they'd slowly sort

of come back, but this was like, it was like a shotgun going off.

So I, I knew they'd done some damage there.

Hannah: Bless you.

So what was your next phase and did you go and contact your stone

nurse Quite soon after that?

I.

Steve: I didn't need to contact.

Oh, well I think I did contact Myoma nurse, but uh, she kind of,

she already read, she basically said, um, you know, it sounds to

me like you've got a parato hernia.

'cause, 'cause obviously this was like a couple of weeks

afterwards it started to gain size.

Yeah, it was, there was definitely a misshape on my tummy.

I mean, I've got a round tummy anyway, so, but the one side was quite extended.

I. I was told that it was definitely a barrister hernia.

I'd read a few things online about lying on your back tense in your stomach.

Yeah.

And looking down at your profile.

And that bit will stick out, which it did.

I, I knew something was ais anyway.

Hannah: Yeah.

Steve: I can't exactly remember, remember whether it was the doctor

that said it or whether it was my stoma nurse, but like, like.

We are quite knowledgeable about most stuff until it's a new thing.

Hannah: Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I think you've, you've hit the nail on the head there.

When you've got a stoma, you become sort of the, the biggest expert on your

own body at that point, and you know something's outta the ordinary there.

And you knew from that very instant there, like, so when you had that coughing or

sneezing fit, you knew from that instant moment something had gone on there that

wasn't ordinary, that wasn't your normal

Steve: Yeah.

Absolutely.

Hannah: The other thing I want to pick up on what you mentioned there,

which was quite interesting, is you talked about your body profile.

So obviously when you got that hernia there, you've seeing that raised area.

Was that then affecting your stoma management at that point as well

because of the change in your profile?

Steve: I. I think more about my stoma was pretty, still pretty good.

To be fair.

I've always had a fairly decently behaved stoma.

Uh, it was more about, um, the aesthetic side of things.

Every t-shirt suddenly became black in my wardrobe because I couldn't wear

clothing with that would cast shadows.

'cause all I could see when I looked down was about an inch of my right foot.

Yeah.

And, and all of my left foot, you know, I. It, it was became like a,

you know, someone with a, a large nose, they're only gonna see their

nose when they look in the mirror.

Yeah.

That's all I could see when, whatever clothes I wore.

So my wardrobe became darker and darker.

Oh,

Hannah: bless you.

And then did you have any issues with leakages then?

Because you see with the, the lump there?

Steve: Yes, I did.

Yes.

It got to a point where the bags I was using, I was having lots and lots

of leaks that that was round about.

This is a diff completely different podcast.

That was round about the time that, you know, PLT put out that asking

people if they wanted to trial the concave when that was coming out.

Yeah.

And that was my trial with them.

And you know, obviously 'cause it fitted a round bag, rounds, you

know, stoma, it worked to treat.

But yeah, I had lots of leaks and they were awful.

And it was only down to the fact that none of the bags.

They would all end up cre over it.

Hannah: Yeah.

Because we always say with, you're almost getting like a flat piece

of paper and trying to wrap up a football with it effectively.

And you're never not gonna get creases in that piece of paper if

you're trying to use a flat piece of paper to wrap up a football.

I mean, thank goodness at that time that there was, was the trial

there really of the con cave?

Because so that shows how long ago it was really.

Now

Steve: I know it was, and it that that's the, anyway, I could really date it.

'cause my memory's not the greatest.

But, uh, it isn't, it is rubbish.

But, um, yeah, that, that was that first trial.

That's what put me on the ambassador thing.

Really.

Ah, that, that was the, the whole star of it.

Because, you know, obviously I'd, I trialed the bags.

They were brilliant.

I had, I went from having like four or five leaks a week to non

in, in, in like, you know, four banks, which is, which is 12 days.

For me, it was three days.

Amazing bag.

So I had no, no leaks at all.

And I was going swimming and, and all sorts.

And I basically, the bags that I'd trialed had come to an end and I contacted

ColorBlast with an email saying, please don't, I know this is just a trial.

Don't just, could you send me some of the ones that are supposed to be incinerated?

'cause I don't wanna go back to a flat bag.

Yeah.

And that was the email that, that sort of set me up on

the, the, uh, ambassador Road.

Hannah: And it does just show, doesn't it as well, that.

Obviously as nurses, everyone encourages people to look at their body profile,

but actually importance of patients assessing their own body profiles.

And we'll go back to a bit, but I think it'd be a very fair to say that you are

that complete change over time body.

You have used every type of base plate that's on the go,

I think to because of your.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The way your body profiles changed over the years.

Now I know your hernia each too, Sophie was slightly different, wasn't it?

Yours wasn't quite so obvious, I'd say.

Sophie: Yeah, and I think my sort of buildup to finding out I had a hernia was

completely different as well from Steve.

And actually it's really different from a lot of people.

A lot of people, you know, have that.

Incident where something sort of happens and they're like, oh, I've just felt

something go, or, you know, um, that's quite common in a lot, but with mine,

when I had my bowel removed in 2020 to first get my stoma when they took the

whole bowel out, obviously a lot of people don't realize when you get your large.

Intestine removed.

Your appendix goes at the same time as well.

So at that time, they found I had appendix cancer.

So I'm actually a watch and wait patient.

So I go for MRIs every year because of this cancer that was found in my appendix.

So I just went for that.

I went for a routine RI.

That was assessing that side of things.

And that's when I had my follow up, my consultant and he was,

oh, you've got hernia as well.

And I was like, you, I No symptoms.

So I no symptoms.

I would sort push my tummy a bit 'cause it would feel like every now and then.

It wouldn't be bulging in any way, but it would just be uncomfortable

and I'd give it a little push and it was, it's really grim.

It would feel like it's kind of like popping back in sort of thing.

So I used to say to him, well, yeah, I'd like do this.

And he said, yeah, that's, you are clearly just pushing your hernia back in.

I was like, but I haven't got anything visually to look at me forward on.

You could see nothing.

It would only be, I started in the last sort of six months before going

for surgery, I was getting blockages.

All the time.

All the time.

And it turned out that was because of obviously the hernia, and

then I've got kinks in my bowel.

So it was all that sort of stuff.

But it would only be like, come right at the end of the day when I've had

like my sort of three meals a day.

Then I'd have that like mini sort of like golf ball, tennis ball sort of feeling.

And I'd do exactly like Steve, you know, lay down gravity,

pull it back down, and I'd be.

Absolutely fine.

So I would have the dragon, which I think a lot of people describe

a hernia as like a dragon.

It just feels like a dragon pain on the front of your stomach.

But other than that, I wouldn't have known.

So their reason for obviously surgery for me was because of the extensive amount

of blockages that I was suffering as a result of my hernia, because as we all

know, hernias can strangulate your bowel.

So.

It was very, very different to anyone I think that I've spoken to

about how they've gotten a hernia.

'cause like I weight train, I was lifting a lot in the gym.

You know, I'm really safe with all that sort of stuff.

I did a lot of work on my core.

I got a private, I say private, it's not private, it's through the NHS, but I

sort, you know, sort it all out myself.

Physiotherapist for like specialist call Yeah.

Physio before, you know, after my surgery to get ready to go back to the gym.

And so I've done everything.

Done everything.

It's just one of those things, isn't it?

Like I was saying earlier, they, I think they say it's something

like up to like nearly 70% of O are likely to get a hernia.

I was gutted.

I was really gutted though, I'm not gonna lie.

'cause I was like, I've done everything, everything to prevent this.

Yeah.

So, but I was really glad actually as a result of that, um, routine MRI that

was found and that we could deal with it a lot earlier before it becoming a

real issue like it does for some people.

Hannah: Coloplast professional offers a lot of educational material for specialist

nurses and healthcare professionals.

Visit coloplastprofessional.co.uk to find out more.

I, it's so interesting speaking to the pair of you there.

You know, one experience with you, Steve, was say it was very glaringly

obvious that something had happened there and what was going on.

But with your side, your yours could have almost been there for.

Yeah.

Months and months and months.

It could been there, right?

From surgery.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wouldn't have known without you needing your routine MRIs.

Would you even be aware now that there was a hernia there?

Would you just be thinking that you were having blockages for Yeah, and trying to

modify your diet and things like that?

Sophie: And that's all I was doing.

I genuinely thought, come the end of the day, you know, this sort of aching,

I thought that was just quite normal because obviously a stoma is a hernia.

Yeah.

You know, you've got your bowel on the outside of your body.

So I used to just think come the end of the day when my body was a bit achy

and I'd have that dragon feeling, I was like, that's just 'cause I'm on the

go 24 7, that I'm just, just overdoing it maybe a little bit and just, yeah.

But I'm, you know, I'm four and a half, well over four and a half years

down the line since my first surgery.

And I just thought it was part of life.

I thought it was normal.

I would never have known.

Were

Hannah: you, same thing, obviously.

I know you said that yours was in a, like a, an incident, but did you think that

that was going to then be having something you were gonna have to manage constantly?

Steve: Yes.

Oh yeah.

I, I do think that, going back to what Sophie just said though, about

not really noticing that she had her stomach, do you think possibly

that's the fact that there's not, Sophie hasn't really got a big tummy.

Sophie: Wow.

You know,

Steve: like slimmer people.

You haven't in the scheme of things anyway, you know, my,

my tummy is quite pro profound.

It's, it's my belly.

I own it, but so it, so my parasoma honey is really obvious even when it's small.

Sophie: Yeah.

I do think that's, I agree with you, Steve.

'cause I've, you know, you do notice some people with sort of bigger body profiles

there, but then I. What is the reason that their hernias are so much more prominent?

Because, you know, I've seen really like, I mean, dead slim girls

that you can really see an obvious hernia, but they're just tiny.

'cause they've got tiny little profiles, but you can see that

there's an obvious hernia there.

So I think it's just down to our bodies and the way we hold bits

in different places and, yeah.

Steve: My first hernia, there wasn't really a lot of pain with it.

And you know, when I went, when asked about surgery to have it,

you know, put back in and sewn up the, they wasn't keen at all.

They, you, it was more about we, they were trying to not do this surgery as much.

They really trying to put me off, you know, in the end I had to sort of.

Err on the, I had to err on the side and say that, you know,

it's causing me a lot of grief.

A lot of pain.

I was getting blockages through it and, and, but the pain side was

more with, with the second hernia.

So it's like, it's like it wasn't that important a job for the surgeons.

They was really trying to talk me out of it.

Hannah: I think Steve, you are perfect.

There is a high sort of incidents of recurrence of peristomal

hernias and it goes back to this.

I mean, did you find Steve after your, you really are like an old pro at this,

aren't you, with the hernias now that following, having had a hernia previously,

would you say you would then try to be more cautious about things afterwards?

Steve: Absolutely.

Yeah, definitely.

And I, you know, I still took, took risks.

I still ate foods that I shouldn't have eaten or, you know, that have caused me

issues, but I, I ate them differently.

I, I had water and drinks in between and, and, you know, and I, I wait

trained, I, I used to use my core.

I've always wore protective garments, you know, even to this day I still wear them,

but, but the hernias have still happened.

I think if they're gonna, they're gonna, you know, um, yeah, you can't stop them.

Some people are just, just lucky that they don't, you know, have at all.

Hannah: Yeah, and I think that's perfect proof really, that you've got one when

you weren't being careful and now you've got one when you are being careful.

So it does just show that if they're gonna happen.

They are going to, and all you can look at is methods of prevention.

So you mentioned a couple of ways that you'd tried to prevent things there.

Steve.

You mentioned support wear.

Did you wear that before with the first hernia or is it something that you started

wearing after the first lot of surgery?

Steve: I, I had all this stuff originally.

I remember doing a, a shoot, I, I, you've probably heard of, of vanilla blush.

Hannah: Yeah.

Steve: Well, Nick Nicola, did she put a post out there asking for models to

model this, you know, basically it was a chance to getting in their magazine

and I was, I'd, I'd not long had mest.

I felt really healthy.

It is just my, my mental side of things.

I was struggling to come to terms with this new body.

I was almost grieving for the old body that I had, and I wasn't no Adonis, but

I was still grieving for this, you know, this extra bit that was, felt weird to me.

So I did lots of things like, and, and I put my name down for that and

I got picked for this, this shoot.

So, um.

You know, I've got lots of freebies on that day and lots

of sort of stoma wear that.

There were none of the, the really nice stuff that the girls got in mine.

So these were like, like your n your NHS boxes that come up to here and,

and the vests that go down to there.

And I'd wear them and they'd, they'd flatten your profile.

It was more of aesthetic for me that I was wearing them then to sort of

flatten up everything, but obviously.

With the, um, the hernias, and now I started wearing them again.

Mm-hmm.

And, and they, they found 'em really sort of helpful.

You know, as long as your stoma is, is, um, leak proof and you've got a good

system that, so you're not having leaks, then you can wear tight stuff over it.

Yeah.

And it'll still work as good, you know, and I've represented them for forever.

They've, you know, I, I can't say there isn't a day that I don't wear their,

their underwear, you know what I mean?

But some, so yeah, I've started wearing it a lot more.

Yeah.

And bands and things like that.

It all depends.

If it's a hot day, then I more than likely put a normal pair of boxes on.

Mm-hmm.

And, and a band.

If it's less hot, then it be, you know.

The, the big boxes that go from the knees to the, to the up here

Hannah: under your armpits.

Steve: Yeah, exactly.

Hannah: What's your view on support wear, Sophie?

Is it something you've ever worn?

Sophie: Yeah, so I wear like high waist pants, high waist leggings,

high waist jeans, everything.

It's high waist.

It tucks it all in and sits so comfortably, but.

I'm one to really sort of bang that drama in saying all these

support garments are exactly that.

They're support garments.

They're not gonna prevent, you know, you are putting, you're putting

measures in place to help yourself and that is the most important thing.

Work on your core.

In a safe manner, you know, with someone who knows exactly what they're doing,

how to treat your core post-surgery with an organ on the outside of your body.

'cause there's so many trainers out there that'd be like, yeah, I can

show you how to do X, Y, Z. And it's like, yeah, but you haven't got the

understanding that we've had our entire.

Stomach's butchered by, um, surgeons.

Yeah, and, and do you know what?

It's not just that as well.

I learned this years ago from having both the kids, so I got,

um, diastasis rect, which is where your muscle split in pregnancy.

Hannah: Yeah.

Because obviously

Sophie: our bodies get bigger and your muscles split.

So I had that weakness there anyway.

And then obviously then they've gone in and done bowel surgery.

And then obviously I've later ended up with a hernia, which I found.

Incredibly hard to come to terms with just simply because, like I said before,

I put everything in place to make sure I didn't get one, and I still did.

And that is why I will constantly say to people, please don't believe

if you're gonna buy a product or get a product via the NHS, that

it's not gonna prevent it happening.

It's just a support system that you're putting in place to hold everything there.

And I know a lot of people sort of say, oh, but I can't wear that

because then my stoma is not gonna work, or I'm gonna get leaks.

They shouldn't.

There's, you know, the, the underwear and support garments

that are available now are so good.

They've got, they're stretching the material that your bag

can feel underneath them.

I've never had had an issue, and like I say, I've wor.

From day one.

Well, not day one because obviously you're covered in staples and stitches.

Yeah's, another thing, I think people are really keen post surgery to get

these belts on and to get support, wear on, but you have let your body heal not

only externally, but internally as well.

Yeah, healing, healing.

You can eventually, cause you know, things to sort of, it's quite hard to describe

when you're doing a podcast and I know people can't see my hand movements, but

everything's knitting together inside the body and that takes longer than

what's knitting together on the outside.

So it's just making sure.

That you're giving your body that rest time and you know what,

rest in that period as well.

Don't go and Hoover don't, don't be doing things.

Yeah.

You know, don't be lifting, don't be.

And I get it, like I've got so many friends now via social media that they've

all got young children and they've, you know, they've had stoma surgery and that.

Has gotta be so hard.

'cause I was really fortunate that Finley being my youngest, was like

eight I think when I have my surgery.

Nine.

So he wasn't at the age where I'm lifting him,

Hannah: he was independent and

Sophie: yeah.

But it's just being really, really conscious of your core.

And I definitely do advocate for, um, support where, you know, and there's

so many different levels as well.

So try them all, get 'em via DNHS.

So it's a really.

I'm, um, absolutely.

I'm very pro stoma support wear.

I don't get people that can't wear it, you know, and wear all these

skimpy, tiny little knickers and stuff.

I'm like, how can you be comfortable?

I like it all tucked in, like, I know its not well,

Hannah: you can't

Sophie: be.

I always

Hannah: called it my scaffolding.

It was like my scaffolding pants.

Your Bridget pants can't be.

Steve: I sound like a woman at the end of the day when I take,

Sophie: it's like taking your bra off, isn't it, Steve?

Steve: Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

I leave my bra around.

Hannah: You have your sympathy now.

Every woman at the end of the day, now, Steve, you know how every woman

feels at the end of the day now.

Everybody,

Steve: everybody's, everybody's nodding,

Sophie: but it's so worth it.

It's so worth it.

And I know aesthetically we wanna look more pretty in our

underwear and stuff, but yeah.

You've

Steve: still gotta engage your core.

Yeah.

You're still gotta be really, really, you know, just be careful with what you do.

Yeah.

But even so, I mean, if, if it's gonna happen, it will happen no matter what.

You try and if you, if you think that, that you, you know,

your output can't come through.

With, with stretchy material, you've never had a bag leak.

Sophie: Mm-hmm.

You,

Steve: you know that, that will find its way out if it really wants to.

Sophie: And do you know what?

I'd rather it contained inside, inside all those panels, rather than if I'm

wearing a little, you know, little skimpy thong and it just pours all out of

Hannah: my clothes.

No, thanks.

The other thing, you both mentioned a lot, there is core exercises.

Now I know it's possibly.

A little bit different for you guys with your sur with how you had your surgeries.

I'm thinking more from Steve that yours was some time ago and

so yours was done in emergency.

But a lot of what we try and focus on now within the NHS,

it's almost like pre physio.

So when people are having stoma surgery done, actually looking at getting

those core muscles working pre-surgery and that's absolutely something.

I really, when I was at the NHSI highly advocated for.

Trying to get those core muscles almost ready for action.

You're trying to get them all ready to, before you're even in that

situation again, to say you are never going to fully prevent a hernia.

You can try and do, and you said it there Steve, you can try and do

your best to prevent, but you are never going to create a full proof

bulletproof management of prevention.

You can just do your best and try and tick as many boxes as you can to get that.

To help prevent, and obviously prevention is better than cure, but

unfortunately it's not one of the things that you can guarantee a prevention

Sophie: of.

No, that's it.

And going back actually to core exercise, again, I don't want

people to think you need to do like a hundred crunches a night.

That's not the right thing.

Like I've been really shocked.

I go to like a women's physio, so she does all pelvic physio and everything.

How simple this physio is that actually really.

Engages your core.

Like it's, you know, really simple laying down exercises.

And it is not crunches, it's not planks, it's not any of the stuff that you think,

oh, this is what I should be doing.

It's actually really simple, basic exercises that really do

strengthen those core muscles.

And it's all the deep, um, like transverse muscles and everything, you

know, when you've got them in place, then yeah, it can really help and.

Yeah, I'm a bit guttered at the moment.

I'm still not being given the all clear to go back to the gym.

I'm like, I just wanna go back.

But it's fine.

You know, my surgery was what, 13, I think about 13 weeks ago.

And that's what I've gotta learn this time.

Just go slow.

Like you've got to be really careful 'cause.

Our bowels are a huge part of our body and it is huge surgery to undergo.

And Steve, you're gonna be absolutely fine when you have your next upcoming surgery.

Steve: When I was, when I went to a e about three or four weeks ago in pain.

But part of my bowel had come through under the staples and, um, it was

pressing on a nerve and it, and I was still having output, so I knew

it weren't a blockage and I was quite worried about the pain that I was having.

And they gave me morphine and they did a CT scan and they basically

said part of my bowel had escaped.

We'll try and wiggle it back in.

Uh, and, and that through, through that, that's how they're kind of rushing

this surgery through as an urgent.

Thing is in the hospital.

They said to me that, you know, it looks like we're definitely gonna have to

move it to the other side of your tummy.

And I was thinking, I don't particularly want that.

I've heard loads of stories about people with bump tos.

You know, you get a Paloma hernia on that side, then you've got, you know,

you've got a ika of ass on your tummy.

So, but this, this surgeon reckons, he says, no, he's really, really

put loads of confidence into me.

He reckons he can, he can do it.

Keyhole.

He's gonna go in Keyhole.

He is gonna try and he's gonna keep it on the same side.

And obviously worst case scenario, he opens me up and he,

and then he perhaps moves it.

But this is maybe, probably my last one that, that I'll be allowed.

Sophie: Yeah.

On that side.

Yeah.

I'm just

Steve: trying to be positive, really, you know, try and be positive.

Stay, stay upbeat.

I'm really pleased that it's coming so soon because I get terrified of hospitals.

I'm.

Sophie: Bless

Steve: you.

You know?

You know, I dunno how I'd have got on if I'd have become a porter.

Sophie: I think that's another thing as well, isn't it?

Is just trying to make sure, you know, putting this podcast out

there to not instill fear in people either about getting a hernia.

You can't go through every day worrying about getting one.

Just put those measures in place and.

Do you know what?

Enjoy life.

Yeah.

And if these things happen, they happen.

You can't, you can't change it.

And you have both

Hannah: said, don't blame yourselves for it.

Don't, no, don't worry about and don't blame yourself if it does happen.

'cause you especially, so the point where you, you really blamed

yourself for it, which yeah.

You can't do that.

You can't do that.

Steve: Everything's a learning curve, isn't it?

Is it, you know?

Yeah.

If, if you eat something that, that causes a blockage, then you

know, you, you learn from it.

You learn

Hannah: from it.

Yeah.

Steve: You have to, you know, but that's just, that's just

life in general, isn't it?

Hannah: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

But thank you both so much for joining me again, and you guys never

see to Amazing with the passion and.

Everything that you bring to these sorts of episodes.

So thank you and I really hope everything goes well with your surgery,

Steve, and carry on recovering well so I can get back to the gym soon.

Yeah.

Thanks Hannah.

Thank you.

Thank you both and to everyone listening, we will see you on the next episode.

Goodbye.

Thank you for listening.

To see more of the wide variety of education we offer, please

visit coloplastprofessional.co.uk.

See you next time.

Narrator: Stoma and Continence Conversations is a vibrant sound media

production for Coloplast Professional.