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Hello, Welcome back to the M&A Zing,

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the weekly podcast for acquisition entrepreneurs, search funders

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and holdco builders across the UK and Europe

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this week, straight from an amazing weekend in Fontainebleau

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at the INSEAD 2025 conference, which brought together

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almost 400 established and aspiring acquisitions, entrepreneurial search

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investors, MBA students and supporters for an insightful day of discussion,

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knowledge sharing, networking.

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What a wonderful weekend

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we had in a beautiful setting of the INSEAD campus near Paris.

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We're going to shortly dive into an exciting interview

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with an amazing acquisition entrepreneur who has recently completed his acquisition

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and is here to share his journey with us.

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So but first, let's get into this week's news.

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A few items that may have escaped your attention

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are DCP, led by Sameer Rich, V

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and Arena to Sugar have acquired Monarch Health Care, an operator of 13

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freehold nursing homes,

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which has indexed their holdco once again towards the care space

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making Odyssey epic, have the lion's share of their diversified portfolio.

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But congratulations to them on what must have been a fairly complex transaction.

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Over to Spain, we see Treasury capital led

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by Louis Diaz, Rodriguez Arias,

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and backed by a number of investors, including Daniel Lago.

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Visa has begun his search for a 1 million to 3 and a half

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million euro EBIT, SMB in the Iberian Peninsula.

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So we wish Louis a the best of luck in success.

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And then something I recommend to your reading Search for News

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has published its end of Q1 2025 report, which reviews 20 search led acquisitions

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globally that took place so far this year, of which 45% have been in Europe.

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And of those European deals, about 45% have been in Spain, specifically

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whilst the UK, Germany and Netherlands comprise most of the remainder

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key takeaways, the main active verticals

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continue to be industrials, B2B services, software and healthcare.

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So going on search for news and have a read of that.

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It certainly tells you what the road ahead looks like for 2025.

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So that's the news today.

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We are speaking with someone who has navigated

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the full of entrepreneurship through acquisition,

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from preparation and search to acquisition.

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And now Operation

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Sebastian Willan is

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the searcher behind Perfect is Capital and now the managing director

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of Vista Folio, a company that he recently acquired.

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His journey is fascinating, involving a top tier start

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as a consultant at Bain, followed by a very intentional decade building

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diverse leadership experience across business development, marketing

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and large scale operations at companies like Iwg, Regis and Shopee,

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including nearly seven years based in Asia.

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Before embarking on his search here based in London, UK,

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he's now applying all of that wealth of experience

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to leading Vista Folia, the company that he acquired in recent months.

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So Sebastian, welcome to the show and great to see you again, sir.

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Thanks for the warm introduction.

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Gareth.

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So let's start with your intentional path.

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As I mentioned to you, you've moved on from Bain

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and you spent ten years in leadership roles,

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including at Iwg, and spend most of the time in Asia.

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Was it always your intention to get into entrepreneurship through acquisition?

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I think yes and no.

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I think I realized quite early on

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during my strategy consultant years that

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I didn't want to become a corporate citizen for life,

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but at the same time I realized that on the one hand, my,

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my risk profile wasn't high enough and I didn't have

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an idea yet to start my own business.

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So those two meant that to start the entrepreneurial journey

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at that point in time was was just not feasible.

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So at the same time, my, my uncle in Belgium,

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he bought a

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what many would consider a boring business.

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He bought a paint business and it sort of opened my eyes

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that it's not all about starting a business.

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There's there's a lot of potential in acquiring a business.

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And I,

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I named it myself many private equity.

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So I was on this journey to at some point in time

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do a mini private equity acquisition.

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But after only two years of consulting experience,

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I didn't feel like I had the baggage,

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the knowledge to to go on that journey.

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I wouldn't have been very credible.

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So I picked

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what I found Iwg,

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which is the umbrella company of Regis, the serviced office space provider.

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And I, I was lucky enough to over the course of I believe it was seven years

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to be part of different corporate functions, sort of the first year

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I set up a new business unit with with my then manager.

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I then was asked to move into the marketing organization,

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which I had absolutely no experience in, but I worked on social media.

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So working directly with with Facebook and and LinkedIn and Google,

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I was then asked to move to

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Malaysia to run the local marketing efforts there.

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And after about three years in marketing, I realized, I'm

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becoming a marketeer, which is, which is not the goal.

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So I asked to change again into a more commercial role, and I led

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the global panel of some different services

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that we offered to our to our customers.

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Then I took a step back again and and realized, what am I missing?

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What what do I not feel confident and comfortable with?

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And that was really the operational part, managing bigger teams than

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5 to 20 people that I had led before.

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And so I found

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I found that challenge in Shopee, which is best

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described the Southeast Asia as Amazon, where I,

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I led the Malaysia operations

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team that's focused on customer service and the return.

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And we found process

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which was managing over over a thousand people,

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mostly customer service agents

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but at post its its own challenges.

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And then finally in my last stage before

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I started really my my journey, I

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stick with stick to shopee.

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But I left their Malaysia business development team to sort of close the loop

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and also have that had that more sales salesy

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experience.

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So really,

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really intentional, really self-aware of you

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to have gone down this road of preparing yourself and looking at areas

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where you felt you needed to step outside your comfort zone and augment

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your skill set, and taking that leap out of the corporate with Iwg and into

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Shopee, albeit it's a large, large firm,

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but maybe more a younger firm than, than, than

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Iwg decades of establishment,

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but but deliberately going out and looking for a 1000 plus workforce

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team to manage is is certainly a great way

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to baptize yourself by fire.

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What do you learn from from having

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that many heads and reporting lines

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less is better Don't

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don't do what I mean I wouldn't do what I believe.

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Jensen One has something like 35 direct reports.

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I don't think I'm the right person to mirror

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his model, but it's

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until that point in time, I was always more strategic,

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and at that point in time it just becomes luck.

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Making small improvements can can actually have

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huge, huge impact in already the short term

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because you're talking volume, which was which was really interesting.

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And then of course the people aspect becomes becomes

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a lot more important, making sure you have

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because there are multiple management levels here you're managing.

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So making sure that you have the right people,

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the right

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managers at the right place is key as well.

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I think to succeed

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100%. Yep.

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Spoken from to experience.

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So you've you've been on this

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self-development journey in your career path and then something

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sparked in you to go and begin the search to buy a company.

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Want to talk us through what the final catalyst was to

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to launch Perfects Capital and head on into the world

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of acquisition entrepreneurship?

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Yes, of course it was.

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I still remember very clearly I was

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it was about a year before we went more

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or less knew we were going to move back from Malaysia to to the UK.

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And I knew I was

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going to embark on what I was still calling

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the mini private equity journey and in my mind that was buying a

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mediocre or slightly below mediocre company

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that is somewhat in distress, buying it for pennies on the dollar.

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And because I'm genius, I'm going to I'm going to of course do well.

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But that, of course, completely changed.

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I was talking to a Wharton,

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Wharton MBA graduate about my mini private equity idea,

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and he immediately said, you mean a search fund?

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And I had absolutely no idea what what he was talking about.

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But I believe the day after I started to delve

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into into that world and I went full circle

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the first couple of weeks, I was convinced

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I was going to do a traditional partner search because you get

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it's less risky, it's more fun.

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You know, you have two people, it's more

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and it just sounded sound nice, right?

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Less, less risk, more brainpower.

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So happy days

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as I spoke to more

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and more people in the industry,

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that being searchers, investors, as advisors,

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it became clear that this might my own personal assessment that well

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well once you do partnered, you need bigger deals to make the commercials work.

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When you stick to traditional it's it has very clear criteria.

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You stick to not not easy to diverse

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yet diverse from them.

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So eventually after about I think half a year

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I decided that self-fund it and I'll do it myself

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so a solo self self on that search is is the right thing for me

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and I kicked it off roughly in May 2024,

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I believe, whilst I was still still in Malaysia.

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So that wasn't it was it was a soft, soft launch, I would say.

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And that's, that's when it really started.

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So you chose the self-funded option very wisely that that kind of dials

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in the sort of size of business that one can typically target.

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And you mentioned there that you set out to initially acquire a distressed business

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and do a turnaround.

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That's not actually what you've

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subsequently bought by the sounds of it, but we'll get into that in a moment.

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You've got something far healthier.

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Well, far more personally, luckily.

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Yeah, well, quite.

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But it's impressive that you set out with that determination that perhaps

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you could do a turnaround job.

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I think if we set that expectation in ourselves, then

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we don't get disappointed by the the candidates that we find.

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But you've gone from initially taking that first tentative step,

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part time searching whilst in full time employment in a different country

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to less than a year later, having got the

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the acquisition target found funded negotiated deal over the line.

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And you sat there there in the MD's office operating it so

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fantastic journey in such an accelerated

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timeframe just demonstrates that with concerted effort actually

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it's achievable

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and there's an abundance of opportunities out there if you grasp them.

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So tell us a little bit then about Vista Folio, the acquisition journey.

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How did you find them?

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What was the the sort of negotiation like,

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if you can speak to without betraying confidence sort of deal structure

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and possibly the due diligence process, what did you discover along the way

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and how did you get it from on paper to over the line?

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That's that's a lot of questions.

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You have time.

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All right. Where do I start?

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I first saw this company or

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I believe it was May.

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It was one of the first ones I ever looked at.

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Even it was

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it was through a broker.

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And I still remember my dad is an architect and I remember him

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send sending an email saying, Hey, what do you think of this?

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Because it just must it didn't fit

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many of the criteria I'd set out for myself.

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It just sparked a level of interest.

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Like, it's, it's, it's an extremely nice product.

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It's it's playing in the premium segment of this

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of this niche market that's that's clearly growing.

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But because it was a little bit smaller, quite a bit smaller than I initially

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set my, my

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target EBIT before I didn't give it more

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And then a couple of looks and I didn't have an initial conversation.

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So just for clarity, I was I was looking for a million

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and a half EBIT and above because you have proper management in place.

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It's enough to get investors

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interested because they can get a decent enough slice of the pie.

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And the same goes for for any, for any debt.

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I then over to summer

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realized that I'm still looking for a needle

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in a haystack and I want to expand my search a little bit.

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And what that meant for me was still

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anything above a million and a half is ideal.

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But if I can go significantly below that, so somewhere between half a million

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and 750, I can fonti acquisition more or less myself.

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If if the multiple isn't all that all that high

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and that opened up, then a lot more,

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a lot more opportunities.

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And I revisited this to Folia.

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I started having conversations with, with many different companies

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of which Vista Folio was one, and really just liked those conversations.

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I liked sell like the owner

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or seller of the company.

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It became clear that they have a superior product.

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I visited the company not not the people didn't get introduced

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to the people, but visited their their offices

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and saw the product and I was and I was really impressed.

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Now, what I, what I had to do then was, okay, do what?

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Do I go for it or not?

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And what became clear quite quickly was that

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getting any debt was going to be very hard

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for the simple reason

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that the lot, not the majority,

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but a big chunk of their revenue comes from outside of the UK.

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And as far as I understand, a lot of the private debt funds

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have a mandate to support the UK economy.

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When you generate a lot of business outside of the UK,

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they can't really they can't really fund you.

00:16:17:27 - 00:16:21:03
And it was not really a problem. But

00:16:21:06 - 00:16:22:19
it's it's part of the ecosystem.

00:16:22:19 - 00:16:25:27
I mean, I think that with the growth guarantee scheme loans,

00:16:25:30 - 00:16:30:23
they all kind of to an extent mandated, but there is a risk aversion around

00:16:30:25 - 00:16:33:27
companies heavily dependent on overseas jurisdictions where

00:16:34:01 - 00:16:37:28
they can't necessarily enforce stuff in a UK court for collections purposes.

00:16:37:28 - 00:16:41:09
And you can't just go and use the the

00:16:41:12 - 00:16:45:28
the apparatus that exists in the UK.

00:16:45:30 - 00:16:50:24
It becomes less attractive to to both traditional lenders.

00:16:50:24 - 00:16:54:20
And, you know, the debt funds as you mentioned, sorry to interrupt, but yes.

00:16:54:22 - 00:16:56:23
So no, no, not totally.

00:16:56:23 - 00:16:57:13
And a lot of it's

00:16:57:13 - 00:17:01:10
another find this with these small quantum type deals by comparison,

00:17:01:16 - 00:17:04:33
you know, a lot of the commercial finance space in the UK is geared up towards,

00:17:04:33 - 00:17:09:01
you know, two or 3 million and above deal values.

00:17:09:04 - 00:17:10:26
So it's it's a tradition.

00:17:10:26 - 00:17:16:14
It's a typical challenge to try and find good finance to get these deals done.

00:17:16:22 - 00:17:19:05
How did you overcome that problem?

00:17:19:08 - 00:17:22:17
So so just just to be clear, we're just a UK entity.

00:17:22:17 - 00:17:26:09
It's just that a lot of business is generated overseas

00:17:26:11 - 00:17:30:18
and was enough for the I mean,

00:17:30:20 - 00:17:34:32
there are maybe ten at most ten

00:17:35:01 - 00:17:39:01
debts providers that would consider or

00:17:39:04 - 00:17:41:18
supporting an acquisition

00:17:41:18 - 00:17:44:09
for a business under a million EBITA.

00:17:44:09 - 00:17:47:09
And then with the complication of having that overseas revenue,

00:17:47:15 - 00:17:50:33
I believe almost all, if not all, were we're out of the picture.

00:17:51:02 - 00:17:56:02
So I feel really like the company and I put on a valuation on it

00:17:56:02 - 00:17:59:02
that I thought was fair,

00:17:59:03 - 00:18:02:19
looked into my own pocket, how much I can fund myself.

00:18:02:19 - 00:18:08:05
I don't think it was the right business to attract additional investors into

00:18:08:05 - 00:18:13:05
and it would it would reduce the ROI over time as well. So

00:18:13:08 - 00:18:15:09
I said, here's what I have,

00:18:15:09 - 00:18:19:02
here's what what I think your business is worth.

00:18:19:05 - 00:18:22:19
Let's find a structure that that works for for both of us.

00:18:22:19 - 00:18:24:04
And we

00:18:24:04 - 00:18:25:17
we started negotiating.

00:18:25:17 - 00:18:26:12
We started talking

00:18:26:12 - 00:18:30:08
and eventually we came to something that that both of us were happy with.

00:18:30:08 - 00:18:34:21
And so it's basically myself and the seller funding,

00:18:34:21 - 00:18:37:21
the funding, the acquisition.

00:18:37:29 - 00:18:38:15
Interesting.

00:18:38:15 - 00:18:39:32
So when you say funding,

00:18:39:32 - 00:18:44:25
the seller's retained some equity or no, it's it's the seller notes.

00:18:44:28 - 00:18:47:02
It's a set of notes. Okay.

00:18:47:02 - 00:18:49:29
Now when we talk about seller notes in the UK,

00:18:49:29 - 00:18:54:27
the convention has been interest free deferred consideration.

00:18:54:29 - 00:18:57:27
However, the influence of the US and other markets

00:18:57:27 - 00:19:03:20
where interest is applied to these kinds of arrangements, we're seeing more deals

00:19:03:28 - 00:19:07:32
like this getting done with with a click through the coupon to the

00:19:08:01 - 00:19:10:01
to the seller

00:19:10:01 - 00:19:13:24
was that if you are able to share, was that something

00:19:13:24 - 00:19:17:33
that was in the negotiations in your case?

00:19:18:02 - 00:19:21:02
It was definitely part of the negotiation.

00:19:21:09 - 00:19:24:29
The way we got around that is basically to

00:19:24:31 - 00:19:29:18
speed of repayment is dependent on the performance of the business

00:19:29:18 - 00:19:33:10
with with some buffer right

00:19:33:13 - 00:19:36:00
to make sure that there's always some working

00:19:36:00 - 00:19:41:20
capital retained for the to fuel growth.

00:19:41:23 - 00:19:46:18
But until did there's no seller note anymore

00:19:46:21 - 00:19:50:14
it in my opinion it wouldn't be fair

00:19:50:17 - 00:19:54:14
for for me to walk away with or for the business to retain a lot of money.

00:19:54:14 - 00:19:56:26
So that's how we got around that note.

00:19:56:26 - 00:19:59:26
No coupon, but accelerated payments

00:19:59:31 - 00:20:03:05
paid off dependent on the performance of the business.

00:20:03:08 - 00:20:03:26
Wonderful.

00:20:03:26 - 00:20:06:00
So each party sharing some risk there.

00:20:06:00 - 00:20:09:13
The seller is able to get paid out more rapidly

00:20:09:13 - 00:20:12:13
if the business grows, as you both hope it would.

00:20:12:14 - 00:20:15:00
But in the event that it doesn't, it just gets paid over

00:20:15:00 - 00:20:18:22
a very elastic period of time, I imagine, Right?

00:20:18:24 - 00:20:19:18
Yeah.

00:20:19:18 - 00:20:21:21
It's, as you said, a rise in his five year.

00:20:21:21 - 00:20:22:21
It should be five. Yeah.

00:20:22:21 - 00:20:28:05
I mean equally I'd be very disappointed if, if, if,

00:20:28:08 - 00:20:32:25
if I wouldn't be able to repay this in in five years.

00:20:32:28 - 00:20:33:29
Exactly right.

00:20:33:29 - 00:20:36:13
So that requires a motivated seller. Right.

00:20:36:13 - 00:20:39:13
This this sort of arrangement in a small business

00:20:39:17 - 00:20:42:17
where there's a heavy emphasis on the deferred consideration

00:20:42:25 - 00:20:46:00
or a conditional loan out that requires a motivated seller.

00:20:46:00 - 00:20:50:18
So had they other business activities that they wish to go and pursue,

00:20:50:18 - 00:20:55:23
or was it a retirement age question as we see so often?

00:20:55:26 - 00:20:58:31
Yeah, it's quite it was quite inspirational in a way.

00:20:58:31 - 00:21:01:05
I mean, you see so many

00:21:01:05 - 00:21:04:05
so many business owners

00:21:04:12 - 00:21:07:12
working 70 hours a week

00:21:07:12 - 00:21:11:02
until they're 75 and to have and enjoy life

00:21:11:04 - 00:21:14:19
here the seller is is a little bit younger

00:21:14:22 - 00:21:19:19
and he just wants to enjoy life, I suppose.

00:21:19:22 - 00:21:22:09
So he he wanted to sell.

00:21:22:09 - 00:21:28:16
I think the other consideration for for your viewers and listeners is

00:21:28:19 - 00:21:31:06
oftentimes there's

00:21:31:06 - 00:21:34:21
more or less cash left in the business.

00:21:34:24 - 00:21:38:28
And selling your business is the

00:21:38:31 - 00:21:41:27
tax efficient way or there are tax efficient ways

00:21:41:27 - 00:21:45:12
to extract that cash out of the business

00:21:45:15 - 00:21:47:05
because it can then be capital gains

00:21:47:05 - 00:21:50:22
instead of a dividend or

00:21:50:25 - 00:21:53:31
or worse, like like salary, Right.

00:21:54:00 - 00:21:56:18
So they going to be able to sell as well.

00:21:56:18 - 00:22:00:11
All sellers should be able to benefit from the business asset disposal relief.

00:22:00:11 - 00:22:05:22
You know, we we still get that 1 million lifetime discounted CGT piece.

00:22:05:22 - 00:22:09:07
It still whatever is 14% now under Rachel Reeves,

00:22:09:10 - 00:22:13:00
but it's still better than the 24% that you pay on on the sum above that.

00:22:13:08 - 00:22:17:02
So if if all of this can be treated as deferred consideration and it's done

00:22:17:02 - 00:22:21:21
in a way that the individuals are being paid out for their efforts

00:22:21:23 - 00:22:26:28
as a CGT sorry, as a capital gain, then all the better for everyone.

00:22:26:31 - 00:22:30:21
Arguably glad to hear that potentially the seller was able to structure it

00:22:30:21 - 00:22:33:20
that way in Mr. Photios case.

00:22:33:22 - 00:22:34:15
Yeah, exactly.

00:22:34:15 - 00:22:39:18
So so so I mean, his motivations were were clear and I just wanted a fair deal

00:22:39:18 - 00:22:43:09
where it was clear I wasn't trying to squeeze the lemon.

00:22:43:12 - 00:22:46:13
All I was trying to look I want it's in our

00:22:46:19 - 00:22:49:17
it's in both of our benefits

00:22:49:17 - 00:22:52:28
to repay him as soon as possible.

00:22:53:02 - 00:22:53:18
Absolutely.

00:22:53:18 - 00:22:54:24
But you were motivated

00:22:54:24 - 00:22:57:28
to come in and grow this business, which should be to everyone's benefit.

00:22:57:29 - 00:22:58:26
Right.

00:22:58:26 - 00:23:01:07
And of course, that requires an element of trust from the seller.

00:23:01:07 - 00:23:06:02
And you're an incredibly trustworthy person, hugely competent and

00:23:06:05 - 00:23:08:13
credible in running this business,

00:23:08:13 - 00:23:11:17
you know, given your personality and your career history.

00:23:11:17 - 00:23:16:05
So I'm sure that that was the area that you had to really,

00:23:16:08 - 00:23:20:23
you know, overemphasize on is making sure that you had trust in the seller

00:23:20:23 - 00:23:23:23
and they had trust in you and that, you know, this felt like a partnership

00:23:23:28 - 00:23:26:33
to some extent because you're you're tied together for up to five years there.

00:23:27:00 - 00:23:33:33
So and it's definitely there now there are also structures in place to

00:23:34:02 - 00:23:37:24
so just in case that I do extremely stupid things

00:23:37:24 - 00:23:40:30
and burn the business down to the ground, that

00:23:40:33 - 00:23:43:23
he's somewhat protected, just like just like a bank.

00:23:43:23 - 00:23:45:19
It's just like a bank would be.

00:23:45:19 - 00:23:48:13
But it's, it's

00:23:48:13 - 00:23:51:24
I'd like to think it's a it's a good deal for both of us.

00:23:51:26 - 00:23:53:08
It sounds like an exemplary deal.

00:23:53:08 - 00:23:55:15
And it sounds like the sort of deal

00:23:55:15 - 00:23:59:07
that many aspiring self-funded searchers could take lessons from

00:23:59:09 - 00:24:04:03
because there are an abundance of businesses of this sort of size

00:24:04:06 - 00:24:08:23
with this kind of demographic of of motivated seller

00:24:08:26 - 00:24:12:06
for whom this kind of deal structure is an ideal

00:24:12:06 - 00:24:16:04
solution to the absence of good commercial finance at this level.

00:24:16:07 - 00:24:18:22
So glad to hear you. You made it work.

00:24:18:22 - 00:24:21:08
You almost achieved what many believed to be impossible.

00:24:21:08 - 00:24:23:10
So congratulations to you.

00:24:23:10 - 00:24:29:25
What has the adjustment been like coming from the corporate world to running? Mr.

00:24:29:25 - 00:24:31:26
Folio Now,

00:24:31:26 - 00:24:34:25
you know, what were the first few things that you encountered

00:24:34:25 - 00:24:39:05
in terms of the way of working that maybe you had to adjust to?

00:24:39:08 - 00:24:43:29
So don't get any emails after six.

00:24:43:32 - 00:24:45:12
That's true.

00:24:45:12 - 00:24:48:26
My my time, like, I still work

00:24:48:28 - 00:24:51:03
fairly, fairly long hours, but

00:24:51:03 - 00:24:54:13
my time after six is this my time

00:24:54:16 - 00:24:58:18
And I can focus solely on the things that that I want to focus on.

00:24:58:18 - 00:25:00:10
Whereas

00:25:00:10 - 00:25:03:17
depending on which company you work for, that's,

00:25:03:19 - 00:25:06:10
that's not the case.

00:25:06:10 - 00:25:08:00
The other things were

00:25:08:00 - 00:25:10:15
are sort of what you would expect.

00:25:10:15 - 00:25:12:19
It's really all hands on deck.

00:25:12:19 - 00:25:15:30
You're juggling a lot of different balls

00:25:15:33 - 00:25:18:16
in a lot of different functions.

00:25:18:16 - 00:25:22:02
We're revamping our marketing

00:25:22:05 - 00:25:24:04
products that have been made for ten years.

00:25:24:04 - 00:25:29:19
You'd think production is a breeze, but you still need to focus so much on on

00:25:29:20 - 00:25:32:15
on guaranteeing the qualities, especially because we're

00:25:32:15 - 00:25:33:32
we're selling a premium product.

00:25:33:32 - 00:25:40:12
So it's yeah, that, that quality that QC processes is so important.

00:25:40:15 - 00:25:41:28
I'm for the rest.

00:25:41:28 - 00:25:46:11
I tried to live by the mantra of don't,

00:25:46:18 - 00:25:52:14
don't change too many things in the first year of your acquisition.

00:25:52:17 - 00:25:55:14
So I'm not trying to change the world.

00:25:55:14 - 00:25:57:02
We're

00:25:57:02 - 00:25:58:27
currently

00:25:58:27 - 00:26:02:11
moving away from sort of an old ish accounting

00:26:02:11 - 00:26:05:11
software and integrating

00:26:05:12 - 00:26:08:04
integrating Xero, which

00:26:08:04 - 00:26:09:13
is more futureproof.

00:26:09:13 - 00:26:13:31
I assume we're working with Pipedrive

00:26:13:31 - 00:26:19:15
instead of Excel sheets to, to track our track our sales progress.

00:26:19:18 - 00:26:23:12
So it's not changing the world, but mainly making it

00:26:23:15 - 00:26:27:12
in a way a little bit easier to run the business moving forward.

00:26:27:15 - 00:26:28:27
So it's those, those small changes.

00:26:28:27 - 00:26:32:21
So nice, necessary kind of adoption

00:26:32:21 - 00:26:36:05
of popular cloud based tooling.

00:26:36:08 - 00:26:38:18
That's often where

00:26:38:18 - 00:26:41:33
acquisition entrepreneurs put their emphasis is, you know,

00:26:42:01 - 00:26:47:32
can we get these businesses running on rails that scale and rails that

00:26:48:01 - 00:26:50:19
don't have a platform risk and all that kind of stuff.

00:26:50:19 - 00:26:52:22
So we're moving off of hosted on premises.

00:26:52:22 - 00:26:54:22
Sage, for example, to a cloud based Xero.

00:26:54:22 - 00:26:57:30
Was that options there. Yeah

00:26:57:33 - 00:26:58:20
Yeah.

00:26:58:20 - 00:27:03:13
So how is your sentiment how, how are you feeling like

00:27:03:16 - 00:27:06:23
the deal was completed when

00:27:06:25 - 00:27:08:11
mid-February.

00:27:08:11 - 00:27:08:29
February Right.

00:27:08:29 - 00:27:12:23
So month for House.

00:27:12:25 - 00:27:15:06
Yeah, I suppose so, yeah.

00:27:15:06 - 00:27:18:33
It doesn't feel like it feels like week four.

00:27:19:02 - 00:27:21:20
Exactly. Now. I feel great.

00:27:21:20 - 00:27:27:05
It's very strange that on days I can't wait to

00:27:27:08 - 00:27:31:20
look at my emails again and Sunday evening that is.

00:27:31:23 - 00:27:35:05
Can't wait for a monday to start basically because there's

00:27:35:07 - 00:27:39:13
there are many things on on my plate and everyone's played in the company

00:27:39:16 - 00:27:42:01
and it's all it's all exciting stuff.

00:27:42:01 - 00:27:45:17
And even though, as I mentioned, a lot of our business is overseas

00:27:45:17 - 00:27:51:17
and we just had to go through the Trump tariffs and a lot of our businesses

00:27:51:17 - 00:27:55:24
with with the US and we we manufacture in China.

00:27:55:28 - 00:27:58:30
So when tariffs are 148%,

00:27:58:30 - 00:28:03:01
it poses a quite a big challenge for for our business.

00:28:03:04 - 00:28:05:21
But we we stay calm

00:28:05:24 - 00:28:08:23
and now that it's at a more reasonable level,

00:28:08:23 - 00:28:12:00
not yet reasonable, but more reasonable work, we're

00:28:12:00 - 00:28:16:19
definitely more than back in business with with those customers as well.

00:28:16:22 - 00:28:19:22
So I'm I'm really pumped up.

00:28:19:22 - 00:28:22:14
I'm very happy with the team that I have.

00:28:22:14 - 00:28:25:14
So happy days so far.

00:28:25:17 - 00:28:26:17
Really great to hear that.

00:28:26:17 - 00:28:31:05
And again, what a wonderful exemplar of the sort of end game.

00:28:31:08 - 00:28:34:08
You know, many people

00:28:34:15 - 00:28:35:28
that are in knee deep

00:28:35:28 - 00:28:39:28
in search will be delighted to hear that, you know, there is a light

00:28:39:28 - 00:28:40:22
at the end of the tunnel.

00:28:40:22 - 00:28:44:09
And actually that's that's that light is warming

00:28:44:09 - 00:28:49:02
and jubilant and actually, you know is operating

00:28:49:02 - 00:28:52:30
is a joy that that is the goal that we all cling to.

00:28:52:30 - 00:28:54:11
I think, during the search process.

00:28:54:11 - 00:28:57:20
So I'm really glad to hear that that's been your experience.

00:28:57:22 - 00:29:00:03
But you mentioned there about the Trump tariffs

00:29:00:03 - 00:29:05:29
and some operational headwinds that maybe are needing navigating.

00:29:05:32 - 00:29:06:14
Yeah.

00:29:06:14 - 00:29:11:02
How are you feeling about the road ahead there?

00:29:11:04 - 00:29:14:04
A really good worth.

00:29:14:07 - 00:29:18:27
So I think with the Trump tariffs, we managed to navigate them.

00:29:18:27 - 00:29:21:27
I think even if they stay at as high as they were, which

00:29:21:27 - 00:29:24:27
which was unlikely, I think we

00:29:24:29 - 00:29:27:32
we would have found found ways

00:29:27:32 - 00:29:31:25
for our customers to still sell our products

00:29:31:28 - 00:29:33:19
by changing our shipping terms,

00:29:33:19 - 00:29:37:01
for example, and making at the moment

00:29:37:04 - 00:29:40:24
it's a bit technical, but at the moment our customers

00:29:40:27 - 00:29:43:18
pay us X works and they take care of the shipping,

00:29:43:18 - 00:29:46:14
so they pay tariffs on the full, on the full amount.

00:29:46:14 - 00:29:50:08
If we would import for them, we would pay tariffs on on our production

00:29:50:08 - 00:29:53:33
cost basically, which would be significantly less.

00:29:54:02 - 00:29:56:24
So that's one way we could we could have

00:29:56:27 - 00:29:59:11
navigated that challenge.

00:29:59:11 - 00:30:04:00
Yeah, mitigating the tariffs to the extent by factoring out the margin

00:30:04:03 - 00:30:06:32
and exactly exactly that.

00:30:06:32 - 00:30:11:07
So that was what I realized that that was totally fine as 60% tariffs

00:30:11:09 - 00:30:17:00
when you get to 150%, even even then, it it becomes a challenge

00:30:17:00 - 00:30:21:16
not not something we couldn't overcome, but definitely a challenge.

00:30:21:19 - 00:30:25:21
But yeah, we continue to focus on product development,

00:30:25:24 - 00:30:29:23
which is something that really makes this company unique.

00:30:29:23 - 00:30:36:09
A lot of our competitors, they buy off the shelf products from China

00:30:36:09 - 00:30:40:26
and then sell it, but they might brand it and then resell it.

00:30:40:29 - 00:30:42:23
We I mean, you see it behind me.

00:30:42:23 - 00:30:47:13
We have an R&D facility where we

00:30:47:16 - 00:30:49:18
we develop our own products

00:30:49:18 - 00:30:53:10
and then we work and then we, we manufacture them and we sell them.

00:30:53:10 - 00:30:57:00
So it's it's all unique products.

00:30:57:03 - 00:30:59:33
And so we listen to our customers, what are we missing?

00:30:59:33 - 00:31:02:11
And then we figure out a way to to develop it.

00:31:02:11 - 00:31:04:10
So, so far, I look,

00:31:04:10 - 00:31:08:14
I look at the future quite positively, but we'll we'll see what it brings.

00:31:08:17 - 00:31:10:06
So it's a fairly globalized operation.

00:31:10:06 - 00:31:12:31
You mentioned that earlier that your revenues

00:31:12:31 - 00:31:17:09
are largely from around the world, not purely in the UK.

00:31:17:11 - 00:31:18:10
And clearly you've got

00:31:18:10 - 00:31:22:13
a globalized manufacturing base there with production in in Asia.

00:31:22:13 - 00:31:27:12
So the core team are UK based in terms of

00:31:27:16 - 00:31:31:30
commercial business development, marketing, finance, etc., correct?

00:31:31:31 - 00:31:34:14
Yeah, we're all we're all in the UK.

00:31:34:14 - 00:31:38:03
We do mix, but we have a person in China that

00:31:38:05 - 00:31:40:33
takes care of, of quality control for the rest.

00:31:40:33 - 00:31:44:32
At the moment we are solely UK based.

00:31:45:01 - 00:31:45:25
Fabulous.

00:31:45:25 - 00:31:48:13
And how have they adjusted to having a new owner?

00:31:48:13 - 00:31:49:11
Because I imagine

00:31:49:11 - 00:31:54:23
a number will have had, you know, years of working with the the seller.

00:31:54:25 - 00:31:55:16
What's the reception

00:31:55:16 - 00:31:58:16
been like from the workforce?

00:31:58:19 - 00:31:59:29
I'll give you my perspective.

00:31:59:29 - 00:32:04:06
That might not be their perspective.

00:32:04:09 - 00:32:06:06
I mean, as far as I can tell, really.

00:32:06:06 - 00:32:08:01
Well,

00:32:08:01 - 00:32:10:00
it's as you can imagine,

00:32:10:00 - 00:32:13:28
given that the seller was already

00:32:13:31 - 00:32:18:05
contemplating or strongly considering retiring,

00:32:18:08 - 00:32:23:02
he had spent less and less time together with with the team.

00:32:23:04 - 00:32:27:08
And I think it was a welcome new level of energy,

00:32:27:08 - 00:32:31:10
just just having someone there to brainstorm with

00:32:31:13 - 00:32:33:20
to help guide them.

00:32:33:20 - 00:32:36:32
I think everyone really, really appreciates that,

00:32:36:32 - 00:32:42:07
and I'd like to think that my leadership style is very collaborative.

00:32:42:10 - 00:32:45:09
I don't like managers that think they're

00:32:45:09 - 00:32:48:11
the smartest person on every subject in the room.

00:32:48:11 - 00:32:53:05
Those are the ones that I yeah, that I don't didn't get along with.

00:32:53:05 - 00:32:56:00
Luckily, I had didn't have too many of those.

00:32:56:00 - 00:32:59:10
But I know I see my job as enabling

00:32:59:10 - 00:33:04:13
a conversation and then reaching a conclusion rather than

00:33:04:16 - 00:33:08:07
imposing tutus on the team.

00:33:08:09 - 00:33:11:20
That must be a lovely culture

00:33:11:20 - 00:33:15:22
to establish or to continue whereby the workforce

00:33:15:22 - 00:33:19:32
feel valued and able to contribute and drive the direction of the company.

00:33:19:32 - 00:33:24:03
And certainly that's the secret to scaling often in a in a human centric

00:33:24:03 - 00:33:28:02
business is make sure you've got people that you can trust and delegate to

00:33:28:02 - 00:33:32:06
that want to be part of the solution and great to see that playing out.

00:33:32:08 - 00:33:34:28
So if you had any advice

00:33:34:28 - 00:33:38:02
for, you know, new acquirers,

00:33:38:04 - 00:33:42:00
successful searchers who have got their deals over the line,

00:33:42:03 - 00:33:47:18
what could you offer to someone facing those initial months of operation?

00:33:47:20 - 00:33:51:13
What might you what wisdoms might you pass on?

00:33:51:15 - 00:33:54:09
I don't think I'm going to say anything new here, but

00:33:54:09 - 00:33:58:24
listen and observe before before acting is probably the

00:33:58:27 - 00:34:00:03
the most important one.

00:34:00:03 - 00:34:06:05
Don't don't change something that isn't broken.

00:34:06:08 - 00:34:08:11
And I'd say that's

00:34:08:11 - 00:34:13:08
there's nothing more important than those in those initial couple of months

00:34:13:11 - 00:34:16:14
because you didn't like hopefully you didn't buy a business that's that's

00:34:16:14 - 00:34:16:33
broken.

00:34:16:33 - 00:34:21:20
When I mentioned that earlier, that was me in my in my early days

00:34:21:22 - 00:34:24:13
when I thought like, a turnaround sounds kind of fun.

00:34:24:13 - 00:34:26:29
I would, but I would have never done it.

00:34:26:29 - 00:34:31:22
Now I now know that it's much better to to buy a

00:34:31:25 - 00:34:34:24
by a really solid business

00:34:34:24 - 00:34:40:12
and you you make your money or your wealth through leverage

00:34:40:12 - 00:34:47:01
and through growth of that steady business rather than betting on the turnaround.

00:34:47:04 - 00:34:51:03
But yeah, listen, listen, listen, listen.

00:34:51:06 - 00:34:55:02
Nice listening is is certainly key in that people centric culture.

00:34:55:08 - 00:34:58:16
But from what you said there about, you know,

00:34:58:19 - 00:35:01:29
believing the energy would be, well spent in a turnaround

00:35:01:29 - 00:35:06:04
and that that would deliver the the upside actually being able to deploy that

00:35:06:04 - 00:35:11:03
same energy into an established business and not be firefighting being to,

00:35:11:05 - 00:35:14:28
you know, do value creation with a stable foundation.

00:35:14:31 - 00:35:18:05
That is a fundamentally different task,

00:35:18:05 - 00:35:21:26
but maybe one that leads to a happier life along the way.

00:35:21:28 - 00:35:23:07
For sure. For sure.

00:35:23:07 - 00:35:26:14
Having done a few transformations back in the day,

00:35:26:20 - 00:35:29:24
those those are usually not the most fun.

00:35:29:24 - 00:35:32:28
And it's it's much more risky right here.

00:35:32:28 - 00:35:36:00
You're taking a gamble that you're going to be able to pull it

00:35:36:00 - 00:35:39:08
off, whereas you buy something that's already doing well.

00:35:39:08 - 00:35:42:29
It's the risk profile is so much lower.

00:35:42:32 - 00:35:43:26
Indeed.

00:35:43:26 - 00:35:48:09
Now, I'd love to get into Etta more generally with you as an asset

00:35:48:09 - 00:35:52:02
class in a sec because you know, you and I first met mid last year,

00:35:52:05 - 00:35:55:22
beginning of your search journey and

00:35:55:25 - 00:35:56:23
you know, at that time you

00:35:56:23 - 00:36:02:01
were also exploring other avenues, other other Etta opportunities.

00:36:02:03 - 00:36:06:25
I just before we move into that, I'd love to just hear from you,

00:36:06:27 - 00:36:09:20
a reflection on,

00:36:09:20 - 00:36:11:08
you know, the last 12 months

00:36:11:08 - 00:36:15:09
whether you'd like to have done anything differently.

00:36:15:12 - 00:36:17:20
You know, if looking back now through the lens

00:36:17:20 - 00:36:20:29
and it must have happened, you know, in a flash.

00:36:20:32 - 00:36:24:05
But is there anything that you've learned that maybe you would go back

00:36:24:05 - 00:36:28:05
and do differently?

00:36:28:08 - 00:36:32:09
I think I've been incredibly lucky, to be honest.

00:36:32:11 - 00:36:35:29
I've I've always I think that that the change I made over

00:36:35:29 - 00:36:39:03
the summer to be open to slightly smaller

00:36:39:03 - 00:36:42:10
deals, to do it like that, just massively increased.

00:36:42:10 - 00:36:44:32
I think the likelihood of

00:36:44:32 - 00:36:47:03
being successful, i.e.

00:36:47:03 - 00:36:51:08
acquiring acquiring a company. So

00:36:51:11 - 00:36:53:14
might

00:36:53:14 - 00:36:56:02
if my strong recommendation for the people

00:36:56:02 - 00:36:59:11
that can would be to do go to self-funded route

00:36:59:14 - 00:37:03:03
maybe more so and in the UK and

00:37:03:06 - 00:37:05:28
then then outside of the UK,

00:37:05:28 - 00:37:10:08
just because you have so much competition from private equity

00:37:10:08 - 00:37:16:13
that plays really in the in the small cap market already and that has,

00:37:16:16 - 00:37:18:32
that has just increased my likelihood of success.

00:37:18:32 - 00:37:23:32
Just be more, more open to looking at nontraditional

00:37:24:01 - 00:37:27:23
search companies mean this the folio doesn't

00:37:27:23 - 00:37:31:18
take a lot of the books it's like there's no recurring revenue.

00:37:31:18 - 00:37:35:14
There's repeat revenue, which in in many instances

00:37:35:14 - 00:37:37:10
actually is more more sticky debt

00:37:37:10 - 00:37:39:03
and then recurring because people come back

00:37:39:03 - 00:37:42:11
because they like your product, not because you tie them into

00:37:42:11 - 00:37:46:28
long term agreements. It

00:37:46:31 - 00:37:49:23
they're just definitely a bit more risk involved

00:37:49:23 - 00:37:54:30
than an electrical tech testing business that are looked at.

00:37:54:33 - 00:37:59:17
But the level of excitement that I felt when looking at this business versus

00:37:59:20 - 00:38:02:20
versus older, more steady,

00:38:02:27 - 00:38:05:31
slow growing businesses was day and night different.

00:38:05:31 - 00:38:09:10
So beat my recommendation.

00:38:09:10 - 00:38:12:18
My biggest learning is be open to

00:38:12:20 - 00:38:15:31
to nontraditional companies and just just have a look at it

00:38:15:31 - 00:38:18:32
and speak to speak to as many people as possible

00:38:18:32 - 00:38:22:14
So I will going back to your question, I probably wouldn't change that much,

00:38:22:14 - 00:38:26:05
but I only say it is because I feel like I've I've been lucky enough

00:38:26:05 - 00:38:30:04
to come across this company and managed to get this one over the line.

00:38:30:04 - 00:38:35:06
I didn't have to go through submitting five alloys and go through

00:38:35:08 - 00:38:38:06
two or three due diligence processes.

00:38:38:06 - 00:38:40:24
So I got Akamai blessings.

00:38:40:24 - 00:38:41:14
Yeah, absolutely.

00:38:41:14 - 00:38:45:04
But I guess maybe if there's anything it would have been opening your mind

00:38:45:04 - 00:38:49:13
to lower Egbert businesses earlier, perhaps from the start.

00:38:49:18 - 00:38:50:15
Yeah, exactly.

00:38:50:15 - 00:38:50:33
Exactly.

00:38:50:33 - 00:38:54:07
Never, never say no to just looking at a deal.

00:38:54:10 - 00:38:57:11
And so how far did you lower the bar?

00:38:57:11 - 00:39:01:25
Every bit down from your original 1.5 million plus target?

00:39:01:27 - 00:39:04:03
We didn't I don't think.

00:39:04:03 - 00:39:07:24
No. I looked at 500 K and above.

00:39:07:26 - 00:39:08:17
Right. Yeah.

00:39:08:17 - 00:39:12:18
So still material businesses that have got, you know, some that's going

00:39:12:18 - 00:39:17:12
to indicate a team, you know regular customer, sensible overhead base etc.

00:39:17:12 - 00:39:19:11
etc.. So that's good, That's great.

00:39:19:11 - 00:39:23:18
And I would encourage many self-funded searches to look at that bar as well.

00:39:23:25 - 00:39:24:00
You're going

00:39:24:00 - 00:39:27:00
to have to have operational involvement, but that's what you're trying to buy

00:39:27:06 - 00:39:28:19
so far though.

00:39:28:19 - 00:39:31:32
Yeah, I mean, there are plenty of people also just looking to

00:39:31:32 - 00:39:35:33
to buy and build and operate and they would like it's more of an M&A

00:39:36:02 - 00:39:39:16
activity then than than anything else.

00:39:39:16 - 00:39:44:00
But I really like I get excited by the operating

00:39:44:02 - 00:39:46:12
Exactly good

00:39:46:12 - 00:39:50:32
So yeah let's let's talk about ETA as an investment class

00:39:50:32 - 00:39:54:07
because we did in our original chat last year.

00:39:54:10 - 00:39:57:10
Have you seen that space evolve?

00:39:57:17 - 00:40:02:15
What do you think is making it increasingly compelling to alternative

00:40:02:18 - 00:40:06:04
asset class investors?

00:40:06:07 - 00:40:09:06
It's you have to look at the whole, I suppose,

00:40:09:06 - 00:40:13:07
investment class or investment ecosystem.

00:40:13:10 - 00:40:15:04
If you look at

00:40:15:04 - 00:40:19:07
the S&P 500 in particular,

00:40:19:10 - 00:40:21:28
even after everything that's happened,

00:40:21:28 - 00:40:26:19
that it's close to its peak in terms of price earnings.

00:40:26:22 - 00:40:29:30
And so it's hard to see how over the next decade

00:40:29:30 - 00:40:34:14
it will perform as well as over the past decade.

00:40:34:17 - 00:40:36:02
So you put that aside.

00:40:36:02 - 00:40:41:22
Then there I mean, there's just so many there's so many possible stories like mine

00:40:41:22 - 00:40:46:13
to be made letter that's self-funded or or in a traditional space.

00:40:46:13 - 00:40:50:02
And a lot of investors have realized that.

00:40:50:02 - 00:40:52:03
And where

00:40:52:06 - 00:40:53:06
you probably know more

00:40:53:06 - 00:40:57:09
about this, Gareth me, but I see more and more

00:40:57:12 - 00:41:02:05
individual investors, usually people that have successfully sold

00:41:02:05 - 00:41:07:18
to their own company, but they have this wealth of knowledge built over time

00:41:07:18 - 00:41:11:21
and they're setting up funds of search funds that

00:41:11:24 - 00:41:15:23
for people with spare cash,

00:41:15:25 - 00:41:20:20
I believe are very good vehicles to do investing

00:41:20:23 - 00:41:24:06
because you you stretch your risk immensely.

00:41:24:09 - 00:41:27:29
Just they tend to invest in I mean depending on the fund size,

00:41:27:29 - 00:41:33:21
but they might invest in 4050 searchers and then do

00:41:33:23 - 00:41:35:30
10 to 25 follow up investments

00:41:35:30 - 00:41:40:20
and the usual search fund economics apply to this.

00:41:40:20 - 00:41:46:22
And so your your IRR over a five or ten year period, good

00:41:46:23 - 00:41:50:27
If all goes well and if it's well managed, should be pretty decent.

00:41:50:30 - 00:41:52:05
There are a few of those.

00:41:52:05 - 00:41:52:30
I think there are.

00:41:52:30 - 00:41:56:12
You might I'm just talking to a few people at the moment, I believe.

00:41:56:12 - 00:42:02:10
And in France there are a few that that are being set up at the moment.

00:42:02:13 - 00:42:06:06
So yeah, a lot of a lot of a lot of things are happening in the space for for sure.

00:42:06:06 - 00:42:10:27
And and again, I I'm not the riskiest person

00:42:10:30 - 00:42:14:09
so having the to invest in search

00:42:14:12 - 00:42:19:02
without having to pick individual winners or losers

00:42:19:05 - 00:42:21:19
kind of satisfies that

00:42:21:19 - 00:42:24:16
that need without doing a lot of work.

00:42:24:16 - 00:42:28:12
And of course your your return will be slightly smaller

00:42:28:12 - 00:42:31:12
than if you would only invest into good deals.

00:42:31:18 - 00:42:34:11
But that's by nature.

00:42:34:11 - 00:42:37:16
So yeah, that's fund investing and it's an exciting time

00:42:37:22 - 00:42:39:24
for funds in this space, Most certainly.

00:42:39:24 - 00:42:44:22
So just before we wrap up, looking ahead to the future of Vista Folio,

00:42:44:22 - 00:42:49:04
I know it's, you know, still first half of the year of the year one,

00:42:49:07 - 00:42:52:21
but where would you like to see it be in sort of five years time?

00:42:52:21 - 00:42:54:18
What's your what's your ambitions for it?

00:42:54:18 - 00:42:58:09
I guess sell a note paid off early and then

00:42:58:12 - 00:42:59:16
Yeah I mean that's

00:42:59:16 - 00:43:03:22
I it's my first, second and third priority, right?

00:43:03:22 - 00:43:09:20
Just just make sure making sure that I fulfill on that obligation,

00:43:09:22 - 00:43:14:03
all the rest is, is, is sort of on the sidelines.

00:43:14:05 - 00:43:18:23
No, I just like to solidify our position where we are.

00:43:18:25 - 00:43:20:08
I think

00:43:20:08 - 00:43:22:15
the products are there.

00:43:22:15 - 00:43:24:29
And that was really the the bread and butter

00:43:24:29 - 00:43:28:26
of what the previous owner brought to the table.

00:43:28:29 - 00:43:31:11
He was an award winning horticulturist.

00:43:31:11 - 00:43:33:08
So landscaper.

00:43:33:08 - 00:43:37:06
So he knows plants inside out and they're they're second to none.

00:43:37:09 - 00:43:40:04
So it's really how do we build a bigger

00:43:40:04 - 00:43:43:13
commercial engine around around to company

00:43:43:16 - 00:43:46:09
making sure we are

00:43:46:09 - 00:43:51:15
selling more into geographies like the Middle East, for example.

00:43:51:17 - 00:43:54:24
I mean, we sell artificial green

00:43:54:24 - 00:43:58:22
walls and plants and trees and hedges.

00:43:58:25 - 00:43:59:33
That stuff is hard to grow.

00:43:59:33 - 00:44:02:28
They're not impossible, but it's hard and expensive to grow.

00:44:02:28 - 00:44:07:28
So that's kind of a natural market for us where we're already active,

00:44:07:30 - 00:44:10:13
but we can do a lot more.

00:44:10:16 - 00:44:13:22
And same with countries like Germany, France.

00:44:13:22 - 00:44:14:12
So it's really

00:44:14:12 - 00:44:15:16
and then of course, there is there is

00:44:15:16 - 00:44:19:16
there are our home markets where we're scratching the surface as well.

00:44:19:19 - 00:44:23:00
So it's steady growth without

00:44:23:02 - 00:44:24:26
doing stupid things.

00:44:24:26 - 00:44:27:32
And then we'll see where we end in five years.

00:44:28:06 - 00:44:31:06
Hard to say We can.

00:44:31:10 - 00:44:33:31
Yeah, there's so many variables where we can.

00:44:33:31 - 00:44:39:01
I'd like to think we can double this business in five years, if not tripled.

00:44:39:04 - 00:44:43:28
Well, we'll have to speak again then to see how how far we've come.

00:44:43:30 - 00:44:44:29
I'll hold you to that.

00:44:44:29 - 00:44:50:27
But I'm, I'm, I'm sure that you'll deliver something on the road to those results.

00:44:50:27 - 00:44:51:12
Most certainly.

00:44:51:12 - 00:44:56:20
You're a steady pair of hands with some, you know, amazing career history.

00:44:56:20 - 00:44:59:20
So I think growth is definitely on the cards.

00:44:59:21 - 00:45:01:01
And I'd love you to come back and tell us

00:45:01:01 - 00:45:04:05
how much growth you've achieved and how imperfect that be.

00:45:04:05 - 00:45:05:31
Great said.

00:45:06:00 - 00:45:09:00
So, yeah, we'll wrap up.

00:45:09:03 - 00:45:09:31
Thank you so much.

00:45:09:31 - 00:45:13:09
Said for, you know, the

00:45:13:12 - 00:45:14:33
kindness that you've shown in sharing

00:45:14:33 - 00:45:18:13
your incredible journey and your experience with us today.

00:45:18:15 - 00:45:22:24
It's really kind of brought home the realities of what's possible in search

00:45:22:24 - 00:45:27:19
and then what life is like in the first few months following an acquisition,

00:45:27:19 - 00:45:28:08
getting over the line.

00:45:28:08 - 00:45:31:13
So really has been inspiring to hear your passion for the business.

00:45:31:13 - 00:45:35:18
And I'm sure our listeners will join me in wishing you well.

00:45:35:21 - 00:45:39:32
Listeners, you can connect with step via his LinkedIn profile

00:45:40:01 - 00:45:43:11
and obviously can visit

00:45:43:14 - 00:45:46:30
Vista Folio on their website at Vista folio dot

00:45:46:30 - 00:45:51:05
com to find out a bit more about the business that that set now runs.

00:45:51:08 - 00:45:55:05
And we hope he said he's going to join us on the 18th of June

00:45:55:08 - 00:45:58:16
as one of our exemplar for

00:45:58:19 - 00:45:59:29
successful searchers

00:45:59:29 - 00:46:05:16
who have managed to get acquisitions done in recent months at the symposium.

00:46:05:19 - 00:46:08:27
We're running on the 18th of June for serial acquirers and searches

00:46:08:27 - 00:46:09:20
and hold co builders.

00:46:09:20 - 00:46:13:10
So that's in central London on the 18th June Visit Serial acquirer

00:46:13:13 - 00:46:16:07
UK to get your day pass and make myself

00:46:16:07 - 00:46:21:14
said and almost 200 other searcher acquirers and investors in the space

00:46:21:16 - 00:46:24:12
looking forward to seeing you there so great sip

00:46:24:12 - 00:46:27:11
we wish you well and thanks very much.

00:46:27:11 - 00:46:30:30
I know you're heading off around the world soon, so

00:46:30:33 - 00:46:32:07
we'll leave you to your travels.

00:46:32:07 - 00:46:35:30
But do come back again and tell us how you got on and we'll see you on the 18th.

00:46:35:33 - 00:46:37:05
Thank you, everybody, for now.

00:46:37:05 - 00:46:40:05
And keep on crunching.

00:46:40:09 - 00:46:41:02
Thanks very much, Gareth.