I've really started doing that practice in earnest when I started bryzo so Seven eight years ago or something like that And it's just a way to refine it, but really Any element that you're seeing that makes it out into our software Okay, it has gone through I would say more than five iterations at this point, it's probably in the hundreds. I mean, how much I work and as a team, I mean, we meet collectively and, you know, roll ideas into play because it's gotta get beat up, you know, because that would be a caution to anyone who creates anything, which is if you're gonna put it out in the world. - Everybody says, "I love it, let's do it." - Yeah, make sure that, Because it's a pain to get something commercially ready and it's nothing worse than You want to make sure that this is beat up right and I you know here We always know if the the solution has been hammered massaged. It's totally right When everyone in the room is like I don't know if they're happy, but no one Says anything. Right. They can't come up with anything. Exactly. And so like, all right, that's not if you get a like, I think it's ready. If you get a that's one of those. That's not horrible. That's okay. That's that's not the same thing as this is great. But if we're getting there, right. So but anyway, that's a long preamble and a long way for me to say Alan Heggs. Thank you for coming today. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. And so we're here today. You just said to me as we were talking, there might be a book in there. Yeah. And that was you referring to you. But before we jump into all of that, tell me, where are you living? What is Hellcrest? What do you guys do? Yeah. Hellcrest LLC is a DBA of Hellcrest Works Incorporated which was a company that was started by my father and his brother back in 1973. Okay. My father was a machinist and my uncle was a shop fabricator, a mechanic, a lead mechanic. So he knew how... What town are you guys, city you guys in? Philadelphia. Philadelphia PA. Okay. Philadelphia PA. So those two guys my father being the youngest brother and The brother that he went in business with being I'm gonna say about Seven or eight years older. Okay, so there's quite a gap there between You know me dragging, you know, the little brother around, you know guys seven eight years older than it's a little hard to keep But they basically didn't even grow up together not even close. Yeah, right So for these two guys to come together and formulate this, you know What started off as a small residential ironworks back in Philadelphia? Mm -hmm And for it to grow to what it is today 52 years later and Having a child that wasn't even you know even thought about you know bringing into the business now being the second generation torchbearer and I am preparing the third generation it's quite an accomplishment you know and I know it's interesting is I think about this like the difference between this and that is getting started and the fact that they just got started and they didn't get hung up on what if they were just like good enough let's go yeah how about you know like good enough let's go and but anyway starting to rupt so 52 years later yeah 52 52 years later I mean here we are Gen 3 here Gen 3 Gen 3 we have in the commercial industrial space you know We have completed hundreds of projects from hotels, schools, athletic facilities, pharmaceutical. I mean, you name it, we have, you know, completed some type of project, you know, in that space. All the food groups. - Yeah, how about that? - So let me jump down in there. So when you say we've completed projects, what does Hellcrest bring to the product? Like what do you guys do? - We are structural and miscellaneous steel fabricators and directors, but we specialize in the fabrication of structural steel members, miscellaneous metals, stairs, rails, roof dunnage. Anything that you find in a commercial structure that's in steel, we can do it. And we're the only minority owned entity that does that in the city of Philadelphia easily. - Really? - But I think our bandwidth is tipping on New York to DC. - Really? - Yes. - So backing up one step. So if I were a developer of some sort or a city we got our plans all drawn out We would maybe we'd hand it off to you guys and say will you quote this for us? Yes, and maybe that's just the skeleton of the Building all the steel That's something you guys would be game for yeah, and then it sounds like that's you would also go down to maybe a smaller Kind of custom much more. I mean, that's obviously custom, but maybe more of a job, custom shop kind of concept for other things too. Or are you guys pretty much doing the larger structures at this point? - No, no, good question. We cover it all, you know, a GC will come to us. Not necessarily a developer. A developer will probably hire a GC. - Okay. - And the general contractors put together their own consortium. And we try to make, we try to align ourselves with as many of the players that are out here that are doing the kind of work that we specialize in. So being part of their bid list, we get these opportunities to bid on the structures that they're looking at doing the entire project. Got it. So winding it back a little bit, I But when I look at generational companies and you sum up what that generation did, there are a couple of themes that usually emerge. Let's say generation one was typically just like grindstone, like just get out there, get some business. We got to get the front wheel off the ground, and we got to get this thing going. And then Gen two usually grew up around that and so they take it with the same level of seriousness because they were there when like Then the wheel came back down for a second that one came back down shit We got a pull in and then we try again so around there and you understood that it was like the life blood of your dad Your uncle were just like making this thing go and so But oftentimes gen two is the one that's like, okay, we don't have to worry as much about the wing falling off as much as we used to. We've got inroads built. And now let's really focus on who we are and what we do how we keep it in the air. Yeah. And so thematically speaking, you sort of see these and then we get later generations, maybe Gen four is the one selling the business because they're so far removed from the initial struggle. Sure. Right. That struggle. I'm not going to say it's nothing to them, it's much to them, but the company actually at that point now is at a level of maturity that maybe another company does more with it than you ever could. That's the fear, it's the thought that we all have as owners. For me, Like you said, I saw what my father and my uncle did and I got that front row seat to see both what to do What not to do? How to do it? How not to do it and as a you know front row, you know spectator, you know, I'm sitting here like - I wouldn't have done it that way. - But you know, I'm like mental new, right? So, you know, that second generation is in the best position to appreciate the legwork of the, you know, of the, you know, the initial onset, you know? So yeah, we, you know, we're not the trailblazer, but we're right right there, you know, riding shotgun. - Yeah. - You know, and so we, me and my cousin, which was my cousin being my uncle's son. - Okay. - Me and him. - Are you guys roughly the same age? - No, he's about five years older. - Okay. - And he's since retired as well. - Okay. - But we got a chance to follow each of our-- - Your dads. - You know, leaders, Yeah, our dads, you know, so I got a chance to watch my uncle He got a chance to watch his uncle while we watched our fathers. Sure. So, uh, you know, it was a matter of, you know What what's what's your takeaway? Yeah, what do you want out of this thing and I could tell you I didn't want any of it Didn't what I saw enough I'm out of - Yeah, I don't want to do that. - Yeah, I don't want to do that. - Some shit. - Yeah, oh my gosh. You gotta be kidding me. - That seems like a lot of work. - Five days a week, seven to three -thirty. The dirt, the grime, no. - What kind of projects were they doing in the early days? - We started off, we were doing porch rails, winter guards for residential properties. We did anything ornamental, and we were really good at it. all throughout the city, you know, our rails, our window guards, our cellar doors, are still, if the house is still erected. - You like drive by, you're like, yeah, I did that. - We did that one right there. - My kids, my wife and kids, they're like, Dad, please, no, no, no, it's not, but did I tell you? - When I was 10 years old, I watched Uncle so -and -so some of my dad. I'm like, you know, that's all I got. You know, right? Give me a break. You know, all I got is these small accomplishments. Yeah. Now, they're much larger, but you know, they don't they don't appreciate the buildings I've built anymore. And they do the window guards or step. Well, I'll tell you when when someone has ordered window guards and they get delivered and put on, you've made someone very happy because I didn't order them for no reason. - Yeah, you know, you gave them some peace of mind. - Yes. - They really could sleep a little better. And that's what you're talking about. - So you get it, you understand it. - Yes, I do. - I appreciate that, you know. - Well, we were talking earlier about your Garmin body battery earlier. And those window, I mean, that's someone's waking up with a little bit better of a charge. - Yeah, yeah. And we're talking about in the '70s, right? The '70s and the '80s in Philadelphia. It's not the city it is today, you know, so times were a little tougher, you know You know people were living in a little bit more of a desperate way Yeah, you know to some extent and we did what we could to offer them as much security and peace of mind as we could Yeah, but who would have thought it would have turned into what we see today, you know, um, So when did you make I mean I would imagine if someone ordered some window guards you have got respect for their request you'd probably probably make them but uh was it you and your cousin that sort of jumped from we're a window guard company to we're getting into buildings or had that already sort of been set into that plan would put into action. Now the dad's got us Into the commercial lane. Okay. Yeah. So by the time my uncle retired He was the first to leave the business, you know, he cashed out. He retired We were well into the commercial industrial sector. Okay, so you know what their first commercial project was or Just kind of came up to a boil and no one really thought too much about it. They're there My earliest recollection was our opportunity that we did for Cheney University their athletic There's their their football field isn't Philly. Yeah in the outskirts. Okay, they had bleachers and we were building Rails and and some of the structure for their bleachers - Okay. - Early on. - Retrofitting? - From what I recall, I think there was a degree of retrofitting to go along with some new guardrails and things of that nature. And I remember being out there as a child, I'm just basically playing, I'm just running around. I didn't really have to do very much, but that was one of my earliest memories of us getting into something that was a little different from the beaten path of residential. You see how you got there from railings to railings? Yeah, yes. Right, I guess maybe possibly. Yeah, yeah, how about that? Yeah, you know, the railing type changed and we morphed and we found a different customer base and yeah, to your point, yeah. Yeah, I didn't railings to railings there's a there's a title in there somewhere about that, but So you remember so you so your dad your uncle gets you guys on the commercial track and When did you well? Let's let's time out on the on the business for a second because you commented earlier You're like, I don't want to do that stuff so We were talking earlier And I I have a good sense of what Hellcrest does and we'll talk about how do we get there. You, we understand how your dad and your uncle, you know, got there, but you didn't start there, you and you ended up there. So what is, we were talking about, you, you said something in affinity for money, which I thought was an interesting comment, which was also you, you said differently later, which is you just have an entrepreneurial streak in you and that could not be ignored. So what's your first memory of setting up business? I love that segue. That's awesome. We were talking earlier and I was sharing with you how, as a child, very early on, I had this passion for money not knowing what money really really was but I had this passion for money so what I would do me and my sister we would make our own money mm -hmm and I would always make sure I made way more than her all right well right yeah so I I'd have this massive piles she's like why do you have so much worry about that's gonna a lot of questions you know I'm working on something here yeah - Only we were too young to really know that game yet. So this even predates monopoly. So for us, playing this game, I just really needed a consumer. So I guess sort of like Trump and the Tarris, we just-- - You just needed something to happen here. - We just needed a consumer, you know? So I, very early on, just had this thing where I just wanted to make money. And I just loved the whole idea of it. And I went on from there to starting elementary school, selling candy and toys for money. - What were your best movers, Candy? - The squirrels. - Tell me about the squirrels. I'm not sure. - The squirrels were like and peanuts and-- - How do they small like wrapper, like individually wrapped? - Yeah, they individually wrapped, they, you know, I guess they were about an inch and a half by a quarter inch, you know, like quick hitters, right? - Right, like a little taffy situation? - Like a taffy, like, but it was chewable enough to, you know, you could really manipulate it in your mouth, have a really great, you know, candy experience, right? - To get your money's worth. - Oh my God, I sold tons of it, tons of it. - Yeah, crushing it out there. - Yeah, I'd buy 'em for like-- - Do you have your sister making 'em at home? - Yeah! (laughing) - You had a no -cost manufacturing process. (laughing) - How about that? I didn't think of that at the time, but I did want better, right? I took my inventory, I bought it for a penny a piece, I sold 'em for a nickel. - Okay. - I five X'd my money, you know? So, you know. - And there's probably a quick turn. - Oh my God. - Would you own it for a day or two? - You didn't even get the recess. If you had some inventory by the time you finished recess, you know, you weren't a good salesman. - Well, you gotta go to the purchasing department too and tell them to buy some stuff people want to eat. - Yeah, I talked to the candy shop owner and told her. - Yeah, it's just straight now. Well, I'm thinking if I'm you and I'm trying to sell this stuff in a school, I'm like, I need a low profile chew, where you're not getting busted in class. - Exactly. - Something that doesn't make a ton of noise when you're trying to unwrap it. So you're thinking like a wax paper, it's usually pretty quiet. Like the salt, like the salt taffy, like this doesn't make a ton of noise versus like a Doritos bag, which makes an insane amount of noise. - Right, right, right. So the long, the - Back in the day, you had the sugar daddy, right? You remember those? - That's the yellow and brown rapper. - It's a lot of exposure there, a lot of exposure there. - Yeah, you can get pinched. - So you need something that you can pop in, teach a dozen seniors. - Yeah, like when they turn towards the chalkboard, bang! - Yeah, hit it here, you're good to go. - And you can't be back there drooling at that. - And I'm like, I could do this forever, right? So I'm making money. And it went on to You know, shoveling snow, you know, and then ultimately into DJing by the time I was 14, I had always made my own money. What are the top three songs that got the floor moving when you're DJing? Wow, back in the day, when I first got started, I was 14 when I first started professionally DJing, meaning that - Which means you've been doing it for a minute. Yeah, we got hired, - Yeah, well, I had to stop by the time I got married, but. - So if you're getting paid at 14, when did you start messing around with DJing? - Oh, I started with the records as a child. - Are you scratching, DJing? - No. - Or you're just playing the setlist, DJing? - Oh, for me, I could pick whatever I wanted. I had, my uncle had a built -in turntable suitcase, so I had the two turntables, right? - Oh, that was serious gear back then. - Yeah, oh my goodness. I mean, you're talking about 1970. - Who's making this? - Seven. - Is it like technique? Like, Panasonic? - This predates techniques, Panasonic went out. We had Bose speakers. Early Bose. I remember we had Bose speakers, 901s. We had a nice four -channel randelands. Those are the ones that one side's angled? Yeah, they were like a house built of a pentagon. So, with a couple of tweeter drivers in there. So, I mean, we had good sounding equipment. So, I did grand openings, lawn parties, wedding receptions, things of that nature. My uncle would come around and say, come on, got a gig for you. I was making-- - He's your agent also? - Well, this is a different uncle. This is a different uncle. This is a different uncle. - Was he taking a cut? He can't have roomful entrepreneurs. - Yeah, I'm out there, you know. He paid me really nice. - He did, okay. - Oh my God, he took care of me. I mean, here I am 14 years old, and I'm like-- - Handing you cash. - Oh my gosh. - You know, and I hate to say it, but I was able to drink at those parties. - Not your fault. - You know, it was just, you know, occupational hazard, right? - Aggressive bartending, you know? So what are the top three, what are the songs that you're like, if you can remember, like if I throw this on, I gotta put it here in the set list, 'cause I don't know-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what you're saying. There was one song I really, really got the party started with was "I'm Your Boogie Man," "Casey and the Sunshine Man." - That went well. - Oh my goodness, that did the trick, right? - That was so good. - Oh man, they were amazing, they were amazing. I mean, everything Casey did was just off the hook you know you could play his whole album and literally where the where the crowd out you know that was always a good one there was a there was a I mean staying alive is pretty fresh still if that's working for that crowd stay in the stand alive with just like so like an in -betweener kind of like while there you know folks are eating engaging But after, right, there was this time where you, you know, you knew that the libation had kicked in. All right. Hitting the throttle. Yeah. And now it's time to go for it. And so you had your playlist for that. And then you had just your warm -up stuff that you threw out there, your Tina Marie. You know, you're throwing your earth, wind and fire, you know. All the layups. Oh, yeah. Those are just gimmies, you know, and then when it came time to really start banging Yeah, get the hitters out. Yeah, you start going into Parliament flashlight. Oh, such a good song So good, I was literally just listening that over the weekend get out of here. Yeah, it's such a good song Man, you there's nights where or drop drop the bomb on me. Yeah, they hold the same note that entire song. That's the Gap Band, right? Where they just, they hold this weird chord, the entire song. I don't know if you ever noticed the next time you listen to it, which you'd have to do on purpose because you'd never otherwise hear it, but there's, they started in the beginning and they literally just hold that synth the entire entire song. It's just crazy. That's something I never paid attention to that. Yeah, and it's like a weird chord. So That it's I don't know if it's a triad or what it is But the there are a lot of chords that work with it because it's like this really dissonant weird sound So you're in the music, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you I see the guitar you play. Yes guitar. Yeah I started on the bass. Okay, so I started and And did that probably pick that up when I was like 12 or something like that because I remember I watched in my dad's Office at the house and I was like pop on board. He's like, I don't much give a shit But I'll tell you just to tell you there's a bass guitar in that cabinet over there Melbae instruction book she learned how to play it give it a shot and I said, well, I can see that you honestly don't care So I'm gonna stop bothering Okay, so I haven't put it down since and then along the way picked up you know probably two years later picked up guitar and I've played them equally ever since so starting to be a while 30 -something years and been in bands all on the way and stuff like that. Now are you more of a lead or rhythm guitar player? It depends on I'm a lead player if I've got time to really work it. But I'm probably a much more right -hand strong player in general, much more like my clock, much more rhythmic. And I gravitate towards that. I think it's fun playing with time, more than playing with notes. Me too. I enjoyed that. When I played, there's just a different energy with the, you know, when you're just strumming, you can just, you know. - Yeah, just cutting time. - Blur out some notes and, you know, muffle them and just get into it. I love that more than the lead, just picking and plucking. - And I haven't-- - It just wasn't, I never played with that kind of feeling. - Yeah, and I knew I don't have the dexterity to ever be like an Eric Johnson, or somebody who can just tear up the neck. So I was gonna be more like if I was gonna be really focused on Lee to be more of not that I could ever reach it but BB King was not a blazer. He was more of I find the right notes and I play them. Whereas I guess Steve Ray Vaughn is just gonna leave a Stratocaster like in a pile of wood with a bunch of metal on the floor and he just played with such command. And also, when I was really learning how to play, Dave Matthews' band was coming up. And I think that their first half of their body of work, I think is ridiculously good. And then like a lot of bands tell the same story, they punch through and they start to lose what the essence of them and he's a super rhythmic player I mean he's does complicated you can always tell when somebody grew up playing by themselves oh okay right because they're doing call and response to themselves okay and that's what I I was doing a lot of playing by myself for a long time and that guy learned by himself because he had no one to play with so he's doing baselines you know those intricate stuff but so rhythmic. Yeah, yeah. And that's what really made me lean into his playing. I think he's, I mean, there's another guy, Leo Kaki. I don't know if you've ever heard that name. He's obscure. Like he's mainstream obscure, but he's just an acoustic player. And I still, I forget the name of the song. I can get to it. I heard him play that song and I was like, I didn't know. Rhythmically, you could do that with an acoustic. Just the way he's like all the palm muting and then you know all the stuff he was doing and I sat there and just like a psychopath just learned just sucking it in yeah and just would sit there and try and get the pick to make that noise and was going to the guitar store to find the right thickness to get at the click right and doing all that stuff now let me ask you this have you ever gotten into pat metheny no - No, Pat Metheny, oh, amazing jazz fusion guitars. - Okay, write that down. - Pat Metheny, you gotta check him out. He was one of my favorite guitar players back in the day. He was leaning jazz fusion toward that side but he had this amazing way of Emphasizing his guitar, okay, so he used to do these these kind of Blends with Lao Mays Mm -hmm who was a keyboard pianoist for the name you allow me and so those two played a lot together You know the Pat Matheny group Pat Matheny project. Think of something like that. Okay, man. Some of the early stuff really good. I'll check it I'm always love hearing about so it's a little different from the strum You know kind of rhythm. Mm -hmm, but man, he takes you on a journey playing with sound. Oh my gosh That right there was something I said wow because it's not fast. Yeah, it's it's it's technical, You know, it's it's ethereal, right? I mean, whoa I mean, you could just lay back man and just literally be in this world They just sweeps your way. Yeah, absolutely, you know, sometimes you you know growing up you hear somebody play like that And you're like, I'm just gonna go sell my stuff right now because if that is possible I'm not getting anywhere with this thing. That's when you're like, "This just became a hobby." You know, it's like, we're gonna be a model, you go to the modeling agency, you're like, "Uh, I'm in the wrong place." You know, that's kinda how it is when you listen to those guys. - There's a pizza parlor down there. - Yeah, they need someone building the boxes down there. That'd be perfect for you. So, in this discussion, I can pull us back to the main line here, which is, You're going to school and we're hearing a lot about what you like to do outside of school. How about inside of school? well inside of school I You know, I was always a smart kid. I always managed to test into the You know the a -frame groups with the Peloton, right? But I didn't like school. Yeah, I didn't like school at all I had schooled to me was where you sell candy yeah what I wanted to know was how to increase my EBITDA in third grade you know and we weren't quite getting there you know and I waited for it in fourth grade and I wanted to learn about you know how to you know how to build a business, how to market, you know, how do I increase, you know, my profitability and I'm in algebra class and I'm like I don't see anything here I need. See X's and Y's. Yeah, you know, so we we moved through we moved through high school in the college and just never really found Any kind of subject matter that I thought was really going to be beneficial to what I didn't fully Grasp would be my destiny, right? But I knew what I didn't want and what I didn't want was to waste my time learning esoteric - Yeah, I would pick that up if I need to know more. - You know what I mean? I know where to go, you know? - Yeah, job done. - Yeah, so I never, you know, for me in school, I'm not diminishing education. I mean, I think it's a-- - It's objective -based, like how did you feel the best way to spend your time was, you know? - Absolutely. - And if people make a career out of academics, some people reap out of it what they need and they do something else. - You know, And if you think about some of the most successful individuals that we know today, very few of them have this traditional formal education, the bachelor degree. Some do, a lot don't. We don't see enough illustration where the lack of that formal education has a direct correlation with your potential to be successful, financially successful. Yeah, I think what schools have masterfully cornered that market, which is I will always agree with you that there's no harm in knowing more, but what is our objective here? I think the objective is to arm somebody with the smarts to go do something with themselves and be a contributing member of society, right? We're going to fill up this tank, right? And once you sort of are at a point where you're like, "Okay, I've got the desire to go do something. I feel like I've got the requisite understanding. I'm gonna go give it a shot. And if I feel like I don't know enough. Maybe I'll come on back. But sometimes that's the best way to get back, you know I like that, you know, because you got me thinking about how If you don't have any idea, right what you want to do Almost the same way you might go to a gas station with a car that has a tank on E So you pull into the gas station and then in the gas station attendant fills you up with gasoline so that you can go but what happens if you already have something in the tank yeah you know and I kind of felt that when I was in school I had something already in the tank I didn't need any I didn't have any room for you to fill me up with anything I wasn't willing to I wasn't willing to can use anything that I had stored, you know, to make room for what you were offering me. - Yeah. - So I made the conscious decision and I'm gonna stick with what I got. And I'm like, what'd you say? Let's get out here, let's get the, let's get the popping. - Let's see what we have here. And I know where you're at. - Yeah. - You know, if I, if I need to double back, if I, you know, you got, if you happen to have something I need and I didn't realize it at the time, I know where to find you. - It's like, look, I gave you guys 10 years to get me smart. If you can't do it in 10, you can't do it in 15. (laughing) - All right. - So, I mean, you literally have had 10 years to get me going. So you bring maybe some of your thinking back to your dad on this, it sounds like. And he wants you, you And based on what you're saying, you're not getting abs and stuff, but your dad's thinking that maybe you should be getting higher grades and, you know, saying you can't go hang out with the guys, play baseball down the street or whatever. You're going to sit here and you're going to work on your math. And what would you tell him? I thought that was pretty great. Yeah. Well, I told him, I said, listen, dad, yeah, um, we got to stop with these punishments. They're just not working. Cramping my (laughing) You know, you're taking TV away from me, I can't go outside and play, and it's all about these grades. What are you so fixated on these grades for, you know? Why don't you ask me what I'm learning, you know? I said, how about this, I'll make you a deal. I said, I'll graduate high school, right? But just leave it to me. - Yeah. - You take your hands off, let me deal with that. This is my life. This is my future if if Whatever decision I make it's for me right don't worry about I guarantee you I'll get out of high school That's what you want And he said all right, I'll leave it to you, you know, and we had that conversation in eighth grade You know and he walked out of that room. He's like did I just agree to that shit? He's like he's good And I'm like, "Did he disagree to this?" - Oh, I got, maybe I do have something here. - Yeah, so I, you know, I walked in the other room, turned my TV on after about two months and not being able to watch TV because of the punishment I was on. I'm like, "Okay, I'm home free now." But, you know, in all seriousness, I was very, I was very adamant about the fact that I am not satisfied with what I'm getting in the form of an education. Now, I don't know what education is supposed to be like, but I'm not liking what I'm getting. Not hating it, but I can't see any, I saw no usefulness. - Yes, there. - And it's sort of arbitrary when you stop anyway, like a bachelor's is a series of classes and So forth, but if we're gonna go in that line of thinking, why does that mean we're done? - Right, and if you're sitting in a classroom reading some information given to you out of a book, the way it was presented to me, now maybe it was just me, the way it was presented to me, it was as though this is absolute. There's nothing to add to it, This is it then what do you need me for me for? Let's wrap this up. What are we talking about right? So I don't have to do any thinking. This is already been done Let me get to doing what I think I need to do yeah, yeah, you can read my book later Yeah, how about that? So, you know, that was my take my take was like well listen, I have nothing to add here here, you know, leave me be. So, I mean, it seemed to have worked out. Yeah. So what time, when did you leave school? What was your last year? No, I graduated. You graduated high school. That was the deal. I had to graduate. And so, that's when you got into the Hellcrest world along those, well, he started bringing you to work or something. Well, you've probably always been going. Yeah, as it turned out, you know, with that agreement came an early work life. - Okay, was that a fine print part of the degree? - Yeah, I think it was. I think he kind of said, "Oh, I don't know about this. "I better get him started early." So it was at 14, I started, I would say, going to work with my father. - Okay. It wasn't amenable to it, but it was something I ended up having to do. The headlock had something to do with it. - Right, I wouldn't say it was voluntary. - But I did get a donut and hot chocolate in the morning on the way to work. But yeah, at 14, I started working. I used to have to show up, seven o 'clock with the guys. I'm on summer vacation, you know? - Not (laughing) Not anymore. My guys, you know, my guys are around 11 o 'clock. I'm already in my mind while I'm sweeping, thinking about what my guys are doing. They had the baseball diamond now, it's a little, oh man, they already started in the second inning, you know. And probably by lunchtime to be over playing basketball, and here, I'm sitting here, - Oh my God, it was terrible. But there was no way around it. I had made my bed and I had to live in it. - Yeah. - You know, and we made the best of it. I fought, Shep, I fought, man. I fought my heart out, man, to get out from underneath that. But I just didn't have to leverage. You know he probably didn't enjoy it totally either. I suppose he's doing something he felt like was You know you're a parent Yeah, you know as a result of that Experience and in the way it kind of shaped and kind of contorted, you know, you know my Emotional well -being you know in regard to being forced to do something, I didn't want, I just got finished telling you, I didn't want to learn something I didn't want to learn. - Right. - Right, so now I'm getting forced to do something else. And I, you know, I just don't like being bent into things that my-- - You're ready when you're ready. - Yeah, you know, so I don't, I never did that to my children. - Yeah. - You know, I talked to them, my wife and I, we would talk to them, and I would allow other people to pour into them, coaches, mentors. And it was kind of a collective thing. I want you to make the best decision for you. And even in one of my children's cases, there was an educational system that was starting to do to my on what I had kind of experienced. And that was this molding and shaping and we don't like the way he's going. We don't like the way he thinks. And, you know, I said, "Ah, don't worry about it. "I'll take him out to school." - Yeah. - You know, I get it. He's not your kind of kid, don't worry about it. - Yeah. - But he's gonna stay the way he is, 'cause that's the way he got made. And he wasn't a problem child, you know? He wasn't fighting, you know, disruptive, and they, you know, he had this alpha kind of personality. - He was ready to get going. - He knew what he wanted, you know? And I'm a firm believer, if you know what you want, you know, you're the only one that You know I mean as an and as a child it's not your job to convince us as adults that you know I have a I have a I have a God -given download that Is driving me to play the guitar. Yeah, you know, well I'm an auto mechanic. What I care about your God -given Download to play the guitar You're gonna come in here and you're gonna rotate tires. Yeah and you're gonna hate every second though. Absolutely. You know and what kind of father what kind of parent is that you know that you would get in the way of you know divine you know purpose. I think the one that would be very scared of them making the same mistakes that they had made. Yeah. It's typically where you see that. Yeah. Which is like well and I'm not speaking for you but generally in a pattern wise you see that they just have the parents will feel like well I stepped in a lot of shit along the way and I'm seeing a lot in this kid that's in me and I they think you know they're they're they're looking into the future or doing the best they can and they they're sort of maybe making some guesses about what their behavior is gonna be And, you know, the reality is you can be, as long as you're putting the time and effort into doing something well, I mean, you can literally be a clown and make a ton of money. I mean, it's, you don't have to be, there's so many ways to skin the cat, and if you see someone who's leaning into something, maybe let them lean into it. Yeah. And we talked about that a little bit earlier about this, you know, about this, uh, this myopic view of the way, you know, we see life and, uh, you know, for parents to have that, I think it's, it's toxic to a child, you know, um, particularly with the fully developed, if you, you know, if you will, brain that they have compared to that of a child who's dreaming and and still adventurous and still you know full of this vitality and and here you're bringing your you're bringing your life experiences whether they're good or bad I mean because guess what what if what if you turned out to be a very success your father was a very successful you know auto -mechanic and he had a chain of you know stores throughout the country you know I mean so I mean we're not diminishing you know the occupation but you know what if his view is like listen son you know what if you could just hang the guitar up you could be a millionaire yeah you know so it's it it has nothing to do with the economic potential outcome it's about destiny Mm -hmm. It's about destiny and I think as a parent it's incumbent upon us to allow Destiny to happen. You're just simply a steward over this child Yeah, those children. You're not there. You're you're not there You know, you're not their dictator, right, you know and and and you should be one of their biggest fans You know, yeah, give the So you got to break them a little bit to like, you got to break them and say, okay, these, this is how much birth you're getting for this. And, but we don't want to crush you. Right. Yeah. So I thought that was, that was really simple and well set because I got what he meant. Yeah. And, and I love that this conversation is really, you know, really taking that as a foregone conclusion. We're not really talking about waywardness. We're not talking about Irresponsibility we're talking about the the room to grow. Yeah, you know, and that's for us all. Yes You know, I mean, there's uh, there's entrepreneurs out here that are watch and hear this and Maybe take something away with this comment that I'm a share with regard to, you know, our mates Mm -hmm, you know, I can tell you, you know personally as an entrepreneur, you know, some of my ideas weren't real great, but the passion was there. The commitment was there. The result, not so much. How do you continue to fight for your entrepreneurial independence and the freedom that you need to be able to try things that have never been tried before or try things you've never tried before, right? With the weight of responsibility of a family. Here's your wife that's pregnant with your first child or you just had a child or you have two young children and you're in an apartment and your husband is saying, "Listen, let's take the last bit of this nest egg and I'm going to buy ostrich eggs and I really think that this ostrich farm is really going to do big things, you know And and we just I'm telling you honey. I can just see a ostrich in every yard, you know, and she's like Honey, I love you and I want to you know Ostriches come on. Don't you believe in me? You know, and I'm reducing it to the ridiculous because what if it wasn't as ridiculous as Oster Shakes, but it was something so unique that it just isn't on every heart and mind yet. Yeah. But it has the potential, right? It does. And that's the iteration, the iteration, the books I'm talking about is you've got to you've got to work this concept. One one visual I think of when I think about not getting because I think the the force that disrupts anybody is frustration and frustration. I mean that it gets in the way of everything and I think I can lean on music which is when you're writing a song if you want to not finish that song judge it before you're finished right in the the the to me like part of the art of of entrepreneurial it is letting it flow you've got to let and I don't mean just ideas I mean just just let things flow and in create times to judge it you know songs easy because it's this long so you can just you know you concentrate for 30 minutes a bunch And that's the key to all things, whether it's great, is just get the shit out of your head. Get it out of your head, get it out of your mouth, whatever it is, get it out, and then start judging it. - How about that, I love that. Get it out of your system, even. - Just get it out and try it. - The thing I think about it is like, if you take this for a match, and this for, I was gonna drag this down this, to scale, this book is is really long to this match. Think how many times is things gonna spit and sputter? Spit and sputter, spit and, it finally lights, right? So that's all you're doing, is you're spitting and sputtering and spitting and sputtering and finally you light it. 'Cause you've got the right things occurring. I don't know if heat, oxygen and fuel. - And what if you were just giving that a little bit? - And most people stop right there. Because they don't know that that sputter was the sign of progress. They saw it as a sign of failure and and to your point There's probably cases where there are folks that Wanted to continue. Yeah, and we're dissuaded Because of frustration and that frustration began to breed doubt You know that doubt began to breed fear and that fear just after fear is just over. It's just over. Just take your 10 pulls down because it's not going to last but it's it's the amount it's you think there's different ways to think about these things and I when I see something sputter I now know that that sputters right. I didn't know that before and there can't be an infinite amount of sputtering. Right? So, and I know that something impossible, which is this match and that whatever that paper is called, eventually that thing literally catches on fire. It's insane. Nice. You know, so I just think about that and I'm like, how many people stopped right there? How many people stopped right there? And that's part of what keeps me going, which is I know. And how about that little sulfur scent you got after the first sputter. - Yeah, oh, something happened there. - Something happened there. - Yeah. - There was something happened there. I may not be, I may not fully understand what it is, but something happened there. What if we're given the green light to proceed? What if we're able to get the green light to increase the intensity and the velocity that we operate at you know and I think a lot of us are you know sputtering you know at at speeds and tempos that are far less required we're operating at such a low velocity that you can't possibly see the desired outcome Because you're dragging the negativity you're dragging the doubt. You're trying to you know over that you're trying to get this thing started You got a wet match, you know, you know, and and here you are You know how many of us have given up on dreams and ideas and visions? Because of the weight that you had to carry and dream to you know And for me, You know, it's um, you know, I'm no different than anyone else even yourself I mean, we've all had these ideas that we you know wanted to venture down at least for those of us who are entrepreneurs I mean there you know for those who have never gotten You know to the place where they could see themselves, you know as the master of their own destiny, you know, maybe not so much, maybe the structured path was a safer route for them, and there's plenty of people who live amazing lives in a very structured environment. I tell you, my wife, she could care less about entrepreneurism. She would love a corporate job, you know, she's a nurse, you know, nursing would be, you know, it's fine. You know, you tell her when they come to work, you give her her list of patients and the care that they need and she's fine with that and guess what the world needs her yes the world needs her so I am so I'm I'm no better no worse but I'm the one I'm the visionary I'm the guy that I want to do things I you know I think I can I think I can I think I can and at this age you know, I'm still thinking I can. - Yeah. - You know, I'm not done. - Right. - I'm not done. And part of me being in this place took me fighting to re, to maintain this, even though I had to put it on the back burner at times. - Yeah. - You know, and as a father, as a son, you know, as a neighbor, as a friend, as a member in the community, there's so many roles we as men play. And we do it at the expense of our own dreams and aspirations sometimes. And that's just being a man, but just don't lose it. - Yeah, don't lose it. - Just don't lose it. And it's interesting, you're talking about kind of these velocities and what I've come to adopt and it's not a fresh thought, it's other people know this, but it's the idea of failing fast, you know, right? Which is like bring that idea to a head quickly, like as soon as you're like, okay, this looks like it's a decent thought, just go And you can find out about it, learn it. And as soon as you think about your evolution as nearly a laboratory thing, versus I get one shot, you know, if you pressure all that up, versus saying, OK, this is going to be iterative. And if I think of it and know of it that way going in, I've let a lot of steam out of the kettle. Like it doesn't mean that I'm not in a hurry or urgent or all those things. It means I've given myself permission though to keep going, right? And if you pressure up the kettle and you take one shot and the thing blows, the ripple effect of that mentality will last with you the rest of your life because you'll remember that one time that the tea kettle blew blue and it was your fucking fault. And so for anyone that is an entrepreneur that's listening, it's like, be prepared, you know, because I know if we, I like to say I'm a 10 to one idea guy, you know, on a good day, which is the ideas are, you know, always flowing. Some of them don't even make it down on a paper. You start getting good at working them before they get to go down a paper, but it's It's an iterative process and it's about managing decisions, is all it is. I think it's an amazing gift to have. I think it's just an absolute amazing gift to be able to sit here, use your brain, your thought processes, your ability to perceive and bring into your world a world is taking place around you and take a little of this and oh yeah, take a little of that and oh yeah. Take a little of this and next to you know it and you know it and you're tinkering with life. This is life that we have the expansive thought process to be able to say, All right, they use paper to make this book. All right, okay, paper, book, you can write on it. Okay, what else can I do with this? - Mm -hmm. - You know? All right, you know, and everything around us has been an evolution, an iterative, right? Evolution of what we used to do with something, but what can we do with it now. So everything around us is by default the result of this entrepreneurial, this creative, this inventive mindedness that very few people are gifted to be able to do. And I think the reward is anything that manifest, that didn't manifest, that you can say caused to manifest is a Testament to you know Infinite God is giving you an ability To call those things that be not as though they were mm -hmm You know so for even brise those to be in existence brise those a was a concept that was out in the universe and it took someone who took thought energy to think it into close enough proximity to be able to get a more expansive view of what it could possibly be. At first it was just a far off concept. Oh What if? What if? Yeah, exactly. You know, to over time, over that concentrated, dedicated time, whether it was able to, you know, arrive in a matter of months, days, or even years, you know, look at the time. I call brazos a success story, right? Because if you look at brisos from the frame or the lens of success being measured in time rather than money, right, you can begin to glean every effort that was ever put into the formulation of brisos All the way down to the first check that was deposited. Mm -hmm. So you can go back to day one bruisers in a dream all the way up To that first check that got deposited and for the checks that got deposited thereafter Well, the checks that got deposited right if we want to establish success or or not so successful based on this small little metric, money in the bank. It's too small. - Yes. - We're not giving enough credit due. But if we think about where first started, and the time, the energy, the thoughts, the arguments, the changes, the variations, the trials, the failures, the marketing, the hiring, the capital investment, you know? If we give you credit for all of that, we have to say Bryzos is an amazing, successful undertaking because guess what? This represents six, seven, eight years of effort. Which is an amazing thing because people say, "Well, it's been seven years," and they just look at the product, right, which I'm really proud of and all that, but it's not like you're just working on it. Like, you are pulling a whole constellation of things together, you know, that just even the people that are involved, everyone's personality coming out through this thing, and their expertise, and their understanding of, you know, operations for like all these different things, like it takes so long to tease a concise thought out. And it can literally take years to get it perfect. And you know, when that occurs, we knew that we created this, we sat around right, we got it. We got it. And I mean, We know it's not like version one. Sure, there's stuff that was on the editing room four. We need to work that in. But we were just kind of like, this is good. We just punched above our weight class with this. And I remember to your original point, when you started talking about the idea of ideas and harnessing, bringing them together, Lee commented one day, days, like it's amazing that we can sit here and think and then package it into something commercial and people in the world use it. Now, that's not unique to prizes. There are many businesses that can do that, but it's equally impressive for them that you did it. Well, that we did it, you know, but the idea that you can just put brain power to work, get it onto a piece of paper, put it into some code, push it out in the world. And people are like, I mean, the amount of feedback we get is like, Oh my God, this is, this is insanely original. And it's, I see little pieces like an original song, right? I see a little, I hear a little bit of this, I hear a little bit of that, but like this is, this is your voice. And are team voice in that we just created just knocking the cover off the ball and which has just been now you're talking about earlier if you want to measure every step that was taken there of the minutes hours days years to go into that what percent of that do you feel like you've knocked the cover off the ball sometimes you feel like the ball, getting the cover knocked off it. And then as soon as we're talking about, as soon as you feel like you've knocked the cover off the ball, then you're like, I got, we got to keep going because, you know, that's never enough. Now you got to be healthy about how you keep going. But it's, these are, you clearly have so much experience in this because you're, I mean, this all is resonating with me in a very meaningful way. And speaking of going in a healthy way, we were talking about earlier, and this is a little bit more, maybe not fun to talk about, this is all really good, but a little bit more sort of not maybe not as serious of a tone, but it is, which is our sleep. And we were talking about our sleep out there and you wear a garment that has, I'd never heard of a Body batteries. Tell me what's going on. How are you today? Yeah? Yeah, you know, and I'm healthy, you know strong body, you know and I wear the garment because I'm a golfer. Okay. How's the game doing? The game is the game is fair to middling Okay, and I am very satisfied with where I'm at per the effort I'm afforded to be able to put into it, you know, and I might I even feel I'm a little bit ahead of it I think I'm getting a little bit more bang for my buck. Okay. Good. But yeah The body battery was some is a feature on the Garmin watch that and the garments like that It's kind of like the hiker sports. Yes, right. Yeah, it's you know, that biometric watch that has all these different You know sports features to it, you know, whether you're cyclist a runner jogger Weightlifter, you know started simply as they used to wear the band kind of thing and Just give you a pulse. That's for that whole world. Yeah, you remember you remember the Joggers early on used to wear the band. Yeah, you know to keep it track on how high they got their heart rate up Yeah, as I sat in the chair and watch them go by. I was like, I don't know what that is. - My heart rate's fine. - I'm good. - But this body battery became a little bit more of an important metric for me as I began to play more golf with less exercise and hydration, right? So I give you a quick story. How'd you get to the Garmin though? Is this something you seek doubt your wife give you a Garmin said hey, I'm a gadget guy. Okay. I'm a gadget guy All right, so you you heard about it. Let me see this yeah I I initially bought it just for the ability to track my golf round Okay, you know, I was not concerned about too many of the other features at the time You know, it became a thing where as you start tinkering, you start discovering new things. And one of the things I was kind of drawn to because I've had a couple of bouts where my blood pressure had gotten a little elevated. So I began to pay attention to my stress levels, which was a feature that I was two things, and then, oh, body battery was this, hmm. - Oh, so you stumbled into it. - Yeah, I stumbled into it. - Yeah, I didn't buy it for the body battery. This is something I discovered, you know. - You're like, what am I charging this thing? - Yeah, I'm like, yeah, what's going on here? You know, where's my battery at? Where, you know, so I started paying attention to the body battery. - What was your first reading? - So - Right, well-- - Do you remember? - The early on readings, not really paying attention to what they represented, probably in the '70s, but it all depends on when I would look at it. I'm looking at it four o 'clock in the afternoon after I've worked, you know, I've been on a few job sites, had a couple of stressful phone calls, You check the battery, it's not going to be very high. It measures from zero to 100, right? - Okay, so I pulled you off. So you discovered this thing and then you started kind of paying attention to it? - Yeah, yeah. So I started using it during my golf rounds and I know, I give you this story, a funny story about this body battery. So we fly out to Arizona and we're going to play three rounds of golf and being from the East Coast When we get hot on the East Coast it's basically because of high humidity and Sun can't breathe I can't make it. You know, I need water. Yeah, I'm sweating like a dog. I need water. Right. That's what you get get over here. Oh my god. So you hydrate and you get through the round. Mm -hmm. Well, on the west coast, it's not quite the same. You get out in the Arizona region, the arid desert region of, you know, places like Arizona. You kind of cook from the inside. It's an inside out. Inside out. So I'm out there the the one the first time I noticed the body bag I think we've done this many times, but this is the first time I'm now in You know in the Can more consistent use of the watch as far as biometrics are concerned Uh -huh. So now my body batteries more important to me now So we go out we play the the first day and mind you we have been drinking, you know You know not heavy drinkers, but you know Yeah, chicken hot chicken wings and you know and no water, you know, we're not drinking Gator I could ruin a good day with some water, you know, so I get out here on this on the first day I get through about nine holes. We teed off is probably about 85 when we started. And your body gets acclimated as you're outside. If you can get started early enough, or wherever you get started, if the temperature's going up, your body really doesn't feel it, unless you go into the clubhouse. - Hit that air conditioner. - Hit that air conditioner, then come back - Yeah, it's tough to hit that back nine. - So you kind of stay out there, right? So we get to the turn of this one course I'm playing on. And I'm starting to feel like, oh, man, Lord. Man, all right, well, this is day one, but I'm a little tired. We'll be all right, but you know. - Jet lags, probably jet lag. - Yeah, well, it's not you. - I look at the body battery, four. - Four. - Not four out of five. - Yeah. - Four out of a hundred. - You're about to die. - I'm like, what? I'm down to four percent. - So did it cause some panic? - Absolutely, I'm fine. - What's the lowest you remember if you'd been anywhere near there before? No. Okay. No. New territory. Oh my God. Four. I'm like, I'm feeling like it's my, it's my heart going to just stop beating. Now you're waiting. I'm thinking I'm going, I'm not, I'm not going to say it, but I didn't think good things were ahead of me. You know, I started panicking and I'm like, oh my God. Four. Oh my goodness. Four. There goes my vision. If, if a bet, - If you have a battery that's down to 4%, the only thing that's left is completely dead. - Yeah, like when our phone gets down to four, colors start changing, it starts telling you like, do something, plug me in. - Think about things that are down to 4%. How long do they tend to last, right? And I got-- - We usually say, if a battery's at 4%, you save my phone's dying. - That's essentially what I'm thinks going on. I think I'm dying, Jim. I'm like, this is not good. Stress levels. - Through the roof. - Through the roof, right? Heart rate. I'm like, I try to keep my composure. I said, keep yourself together. Keep yourself, you got a family at home. I'm out here on a golf, I'm gonna die on a golf course. - You're embarrassing yourself. - I'm gonna high on a golf course, is this really gonna happen, right? So I started drinking water, I threw the beer, I was drinking away. - It's like a life changing moment. - Maybe that might give me 1 % right? (laughing) - We got four every, every 10th counts. - I'm making deals, I'm just trying to work this thing out 1 % at a So I I I mean I'm I'm down to a crawl man This is a good like taking weight out of your pockets No more driver, I'm just putting I'm not I know no I'm sitting in the cart under the shade. I'm like, "I'm doing it." I'm trying to keep this 4 % to the clubhouse, man. Lord, please, you know, I can't call, if I call my, if I call my 4%, please. I'm like, "If I call my wife, that's gonna take 2 %." - Minimum. - Can't call her. I'm in trouble. So I take the watch out. I - You put this on, try this. - I get that shit away from me. - I don't want to see it no more. So I gave it to my brother. - You were fine till you knew you were at 4%. - I was good. I'm like, "Yo, what are we doing tonight?" - Right? (laughing) - This moment's been brought to you by Garmin. - Tell my wife I love her. - Yeah. - I don't think I'm gonna make it bad 'cause you got, it It was great knowing you. What's wrong with you? How was wrong? I said just look at the watch four percent We got through we got through that I got back to the I got back to the hotel and I'm drinking Gator a Cranberry juice. I'm drinking I'm drinking a Lettral You know the water with the electrolytes in it, and I mean I'm just I Mean I'm non -stop and and and and chef, you know The this the crazy serious part about this was I Didn't go to bathroom Right. You're a word. Yeah, I knew Lee dehydrated Abzy absolutely. I think if you cut be right across here, I would have been medium well. (laughing) - Just a slow burn. - Oh my God, it was bad. But you know what, I mean, these devices can be lifesavers. - Yeah. - You know, I got my God honest, and yeah, this message is brought to you by Garmin. I mean, it's not really, but a shout out to Garmin. - Yeah. feature for me particularly out in the West because like I said if you don't play golf in the West yeah you know heat is not heat all heat is not created the same it is not you know so yeah that yeah we we we had a good laugh about that but yeah really hilarious that I mean now that you were sitting here everyone's okay but I mean I mean, just, you must have been like... Listen, I'm telling you, you know, you are, I don't know, what are we about to... How many miles is it from Philly to Arizona? I mean, what are we at? A thousand? Easy, right? So, you know, I'm that far away from my family, and they're thinking I'm having fun and I'm literally dying. I'm like, I cannot tell you. Have you, so where do you, how often do you wear this watch just during these types of activities or do you wear it kind of in your days? Now that I'm more acutely aware of, you know, the condition of my body, you know, I've made a lot of changes. I only wear it when I play mainly for the golf feature. - Okay, so you're back, you're finally back to where you bought it for. - Yeah, but guess what? In the back of my head, I know when I need to check that body battery. And it's still not a bad thing to do with regard to exercise. And if you say, are you a bike rider? - I was once. - Weight lift or something like that. It's not a bad idea to know. - How hard you're Because, you know, as you get older, there's only been so high we are supposed to allow our heart rates to get anyway. So it's not like go hard or go home. You want to keep that heart rate within a certain parameter. You know, we're not 20 -something -year -old guys. No, we can't go up to 7 ,000 RPMs anymore. You know, so, you know, that, Along with our stress. I mean, you know, we being in business being entrepreneurs, you know Every day is not necessarily a banner day. So we have to manage our stress levels, too Yeah, so, you know pay attention, you know, if I wear it On occasion, you know, I'll watch it and make sure okay calm down, you know It's not that bad. Can you can somebody be at a hundred on the - I think you might be-- - Like, no one's a perfect 10, right? Yeah, yeah, I think you might do 99. But I can tell you that I gone from when I was heavier, I've gone from times when the max I could wake up, I mean, fully rested, 67. Seriously. Oh, my goodness, it was so discouraging. I was like, "Well, what else do I gotta do?" You know, I'm trying to eat right. I'm trying to get plenty of sleep. I'm trying to keep my stress levels down in 67, 68. I'm surprised insurance companies don't make people wear these for three months. Yeah, how about that? How about that? You know, we'll get you insured. It's coming. It's coming. Well, you do think it's like so you're watching oops. So you're watching yourself now. And I I was once more tuned up than I am right now. But I do try to, you know, as I'm working more, I'm mindful not to sit and eat 2 ,000 calories in one sitting. Yeah, yeah. And then you kind of, you end up maybe paying for someone else who's not doing the same thing. And that's a much bigger discussion. But I can see how they may want to say, well, why don't we all wear one of these while we re -up and see kind of maybe why we're having the issues we're having or whatever. It's, there was a time when I was very serious about my diet, and the way that our bodies feel when we're put in the right fuel in it, versus being, you know, we're being mindful to not stack on weight, but we may just eat less of something that's horrible for us. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You know, and so the way that our bodies feel, you, like when you're eating right, your body just, and not to mention mood, thing just elevates to a level that you're like oh my god I didn't know if it was possible right to feel like this right and it's it's really nice to do that it's very hard to be that strict but you know you can keep elements of that with you I think you know I think it's all a matter of to your point moderation yeah you know as far excess of eating you know we are at a place now where beef intake has to be monitored you know I can't eat steak you know two times a week once a week you know it's scaled back to once a month you know and I realize when I step on the scale and you still feel a little sluggish I is that I will carry the weight of that beef meal almost two days. - Right. - So you think about what you put in your body is taking two days to process. - Yeah. And I'm not the scientist to say if that's good or bad, but something feels weird about that. - Yeah, something sounds weird about that. So, you know, I'm learning to pay a little more attention to my body. And Not only that, to borrow a term, iteration, each decade is a different iteration of the same carcass. You know what I mean? Believe it or not, for as good as you feel, there is a different iteration. There has been some drop off to some extent, maybe not perceptible, but there has been, you know, somewhat of a drop off as we go decade to decade, you know, now I'm in my early 60s and I feel good. I think I look good. I could still function in every capacity that I've ever been able to function in, but I know there's a drop off, you know, from what I could do in my 40s. Now, the difference, there is a little bit of a jostling, right? Because in my 40s, I wasn't as, I wasn't taking care of myself as well as I'm taking care of myself now in my 60s. So I think we're kind of inverting that dichotomy a little bit. - Well, is that a Bronze to Brains version, meaning that-- - Yeah, I'm not invincible. - Yeah, meaning like, well, the reason you weren't eating this ball in your 40s, 'cause you don't know as much as you know now. - Yeah, exactly, you know. - Exactly, you know, in my 40s, you kind of felt like you were never gonna get old. - Yeah. - You know, you felt like, I can do this forever. I don't know what happened to those old people. - Yeah. - But for me, that's not gonna happen. - Yeah. - No, it does happen to us all, right? - You know, it does happen to us. And it is, they've said, you know, before somebody's 40 years old, you hear people talking about, I don't know, when you hit 40, something changes. And I would say in general, that's sort of true. And when I see like a 95 -year -old walking, I mean, we should have like a medal of honor to just give that person forgetting how to fucking - That's not funny, I mean, if my body hurts the way it does and they're walking like going and doing their grocery shopping, it's like, you're amazing. - My dad is 92. - Wow, still going. - And he still drives, he takes care of himself. No caregivers. He lives, you know, he can take full care of himself, - 92. - Mm -hmm. - 92. - Is he a caregiver kind of guy? - No. - No. Is he a take my license away kind of guy? - Nope. (laughing) Nope, nope. That guy, he's like Mr. McGoo behind the wheel. Sorry, Dad. (laughing) Watch out for me, not man. (laughing) - Yeah, my mom was, she's only with her, But she was not someone who was going to have her license. Yeah, yeah. She's like-- These are old folks that they feel like, you know what? I deserve it. Nobody's going to-- nope, it's going to be by my terms. Yeah, you will have to kill me to get that license. I don't even care about the license to get the keys. Yeah. But you know, don't you-- you know, not to drift off the point too much, but doesn't it-- Wouldn't it make sense that maybe after 75, maybe you have to take another driver's license and maybe another one at 76 and another one at 77? - It feels reasonable 'cause if you think about how different of a human are you from the age from 10 to 30? I mean, in our bodies, I think are actually changing that much, it's just not as perceptible or visible as it is when you're actually growing up. But we all sustain quite a bit of cellular death, when at least, you know, which is not as visible, you know, kind of like that arid Southwest heat that might be from the inside out. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - The outside. - Yes, 100%. - In, you know. - 100%. - So. - And I'm not saying, you know, God unless anyone who is still with the dexterity to be able to do these kind of things. But I think for the sake of the safety of society that, you know, let's potentially just help our seniors, you know, be aware of where they may be, your sight may not be as, you know, as clear as it used to be. - It's not. You know, you're hearing. I know my father is hearing issues anywhere as a hearing aid. And when I talk to him, you know, the volume of the conversation is a little elevated. Yeah. Now, what happens if there's a rescue vehicle coming, you know, through an intersection, he doesn't hear. Yeah. He doesn't see him. Behind a big building, here's a fire truck, and he doesn't hear it, he's got the green light. Well, we're saying stuff like that to my mom, which is, "Mom, let's take a step beyond you," which is, okay, we can maybe accept it, maybe you might get hurt in that car accident, but what about, you're assuming you're hitting a telephone pole, you're assuming you're hitting a tree, or something else. What about the stroller down the sidewalk scenario. And is that how you want the last page of your book to be written? Wow. How does she take that? She goes, "It won't be." I mean, she was right. I'm sure of that. I'm sure of that. She's like, "It won't be." She's like, "You see that shit?" Next question? Next question? I always do your dumb (laughing) I should have been on some of the y 'all's. - Oh my goodness. - All right, I'm gonna wrap us up by saying thank you for coming in and how much fun it was. - It was great. - Having that conversation with you. And man, good times, thank you. - Absolutely, thanks for having me. - You bet. - Take care.