00:00:01.79
alexei sayle
Hello everybody, welcome to episode 85 of the Alexi Sale podcast.
00:00:05.36
Esther
So,..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
00:00:10.23
alexei sayle
And fuck me, what a week it's been for us to laugh here at Alexi Sale house near the roundabout in Uxbridge.
00:00:20.71
alexei sayle
My God, que pasa hombre? We
00:00:24.01
Talal K
That's right, hombre. We've had quite the week indeed.
00:00:27.01
alexei sayle
had quite the fucking week.
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Talal K
You've become a viral superstar.
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alexei sayle
Viral TikTok superstar. Have actually gone viral now?
00:00:32.34
Esther
How of the extra viral?
00:00:34.26
alexei sayle
ah which I don't know.
00:00:34.56
Talal K
I'd say i I could confidently say...
00:00:34.77
Esther
I'd say I'd like to talk to them and
00:00:38.75
Talal K
You're viral. You need to go to your your doctor and get checked out.
00:00:39.67
alexei sayle
Fuck, really?
00:00:40.01
Esther
You need come your doctor get checked.
00:00:40.81
alexei sayle
Shit.
00:00:42.55
Talal K
There's something really viral about you.
00:00:43.11
Esther
not that very viral about you. They've been developing a magazine.
00:00:44.36
alexei sayle
I'll be developing a vaccine.
00:00:44.43
Talal K
um
00:00:45.72
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:00:46.13
Talal K
So to catch our listeners up and hello to any new listeners who've joined because our of our new viral ah condition.
00:00:46.85
Esther
to catch our listeners up and hello any new listeners who in, so I'm well, if will then, viral
00:00:51.10
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:00:54.41
Esther
issue.
00:00:55.10
Talal K
A few weeks back during our live show, you suggested you wanted to do a TikTok dance and then stop dancing and talk about Marxism.
00:00:58.12
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:01:04.59
Talal K
And that was kind of the pitch, wasn't it?
00:01:04.64
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:07.76
Talal K
And so on a sunny day last week, we went to your back garden.
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alexei sayle
You actually had to show I had a kind of idea platonic ideas that were one of tick tock tick tock dance was but then you had to show me the reality.
00:01:11.99
Esther
idea.
00:01:18.41
Esther
We sat in your hut and then showed you something about dances.
00:01:19.58
Talal K
Yeah. We sat in your garden and I showed you some TikTok dances and we sat for about 10 minutes.
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Esther
We sat in about 10 minutes and at one point turned him and said, it's kind weird that we're singing.
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alexei sayle
Yeah.
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Talal K
And at one point I turned to and I said, it's kind of weird that we're sitting here looking at a bunch of teenage girls dancing, isn't it?
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Esther
Teenage people are dancing, isn't it?
00:01:32.29
alexei sayle
ah
00:01:32.70
Talal K
Alexa, we had to both acknowledge the weirdness of that moment, but then, um,
00:01:33.70
Esther
I've acknowledged the weirdness. Yeah, we figured out little routine.
00:01:37.43
Talal K
Yeah, we figured out a little routine and um to a very, to the, basically I just picked the top trending song of the time.
00:01:41.97
Esther
So, basically, I just picked the top the page. So, to try to find out what's in terms of the page. And it's not simply to write the page.
00:01:45.42
alexei sayle
yeah said but uh but uh
00:01:45.41
Esther
It's not simply to write the page. It's very immediate.
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Talal K
And
00:01:46.60
Esther
It's not a time ago. All the same. So, to try to find out what's in terms the page.
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Talal K
ah pertur perur and um got you dancing and talking about marks and we've posted it.
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alexei sayle
Marxism just a basic introduction yeah yeah
00:01:58.22
Talal K
Let me give give you a rundown of the stats, Alexi. We did three videos, okay? Part one, part two, part three. All the same song, all the same dance, different marks facts, yeah?
00:02:06.38
alexei sayle
yeah yeah yeah
00:02:09.54
Talal K
um And on TikTok, the first video has now garnered 275,000 views.
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Esther
And on TikTok, the first video has now gone at 275. The
00:02:16.50
alexei sayle
Right, excellent.
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Talal K
The second, this is I know it's not very, ah it's a bit gauche to sit and talk about your views, but this is very new for both of us.
00:02:18.69
Esther
second video, know it's not very, it's a big gauche to sit and talk about the views, but it's a very new one.
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alexei sayle
No, no, it's important.
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Talal K
So we have to analyze this.
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alexei sayle
Yeah.
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Talal K
The second video got 96.9 thousand views.
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Esther
The second video got 96.9 thousand views on the video.
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alexei sayle
Right.
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Talal K
So got a bit of a dip there.
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alexei sayle
Yeah.
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Talal K
And the third video, I posted it and it kept, had a very frustrating day because I kept, it kept getting muted and I'd post it again. And it would be muted.
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Talal K
And I was like, why aren't the last two muted? Is it something to do with the song copyright?
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alexei sayle
Yeah.
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Talal K
And then took me fucking a couple hours to figure out that the video we did as a joke, the last one, you gave the longest explanation of Mark's theory.
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alexei sayle
Yeah.
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Esther
that video, it hasn't done. The last one is the longest explanation. Right. That was a little bit a small part, yeah. But because the video was just over a minute you're saying there's a need to be a tool.
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alexei sayle
Right.
00:02:57.56
Esther
So then, it's a big chunk the source language, the last bit something.
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Talal K
And that was kind of a joke that the the description was longer than the dance, yeah?
00:03:01.13
alexei sayle
Alright. Yeah.
00:03:02.72
Talal K
But because the video was just over a minute long, anything over a minute, your music gets muted.
00:03:09.32
alexei sayle
Alright.
00:03:09.70
Talal K
on TikTok. So I then had to go in and like re-edit it and it's a bit jumpy and it looks almost fake because you're dancing and then suddenly you're talking and then suddenly you're dancing again.
00:03:18.10
alexei sayle
Right.
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Talal K
So that one on TikTok has only got 2,300 views.
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alexei sayle
Right.
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Talal K
Embarrassing.
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alexei sayle
Yeah. know I thought I was you sent I mean,
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Talal K
Oh, I'm not done yet.
00:03:32.14
alexei sayle
god oh
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Talal K
we We are definitely viral and I'll tell you why. But some of the comments on TikTok have made me
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alexei sayle
to
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Talal K
ah weep with joy. They're like, ah where were you when I was doing my mocks?
00:03:41.58
Esther
they're like when i was doing my mom's why can't my social
00:03:42.89
Talal K
Why can't my sociology teacher incorporate dance into it? Some of them like, I'm a professor and I wish I knew about this technique when teaching Marxism.
00:03:47.30
Esther
Something like, I'm a professor and wish I knew about this. This is how you get
00:03:51.60
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:03:51.91
Talal K
ah This is how you get through to the shortest tension span of today's youths.
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Esther
through to a short video. Everyone is so this brand.
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Talal K
Everyone is so impressed with this brand new teaching method.
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Esther
imagining classrooms and things like that.
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Talal K
And i'm I'm imagining classrooms across the country having their teachers do TikTok dances for them.
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Esther
People are saying, I like to go to the community.
00:04:02.07
alexei sayle
Yeah. yeah
00:04:05.77
Talal K
um People are saying, Alexi, that you ate and left no crumbs.
00:04:07.76
Esther
think I do like that.
00:04:10.91
alexei sayle
Yeah. that
00:04:11.54
Talal K
Any idea what that means?
00:04:12.93
alexei sayle
I think it's a quote from Marx, isn't it? It's about the bourgeoisie, would imagine, which is also a rather cruel reference to my weight.
00:04:15.70
Talal K
Is it?
00:04:19.14
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:04:20.59
Talal K
It's not, it's nothing to do with your weight, sir.
00:04:21.08
Esther
not
00:04:22.19
alexei sayle
Oh, is it not?
00:04:22.67
Talal K
No, it's a new TikTok lingo.
00:04:22.95
Esther
um
00:04:23.37
alexei sayle
No.
00:04:25.41
Talal K
Maybe it is a, ah ah yeah, it means you ate and left no crumbs.
00:04:25.56
alexei sayle
Oh, is it? Oh, I didn't know that, you see.
00:04:28.38
Talal K
This comes from the drag scene, I believe. A lot of this TikTok does because a lot of people are saying slay king to you as well.
00:04:30.51
alexei sayle
ah right.
00:04:34.57
alexei sayle
I don't know what any of that means.
00:04:34.87
Talal K
And it just means good show, well done.
00:04:36.63
alexei sayle
No.
00:04:37.30
Talal K
You ate and left no crumbs, like you ate it up.
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alexei sayle
Okay.
00:04:39.38
Talal K
You ate the whole scene up.
00:04:41.64
alexei sayle
Okay.
00:04:42.08
Talal K
and people are telling you that you're slaying. ah This is what TikTok was created for. Fuck me, Alexi doing a TikTok dance in my For You page.
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Esther
Fuck me, Alexi doing a TikTok brand my new page.
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Talal K
what I don't know what this world is, but I love it.
00:04:52.92
Esther
don't know what this world is, but love it.
00:04:54.91
Talal K
Shit like that, okay? ah
00:04:56.46
Esther
Shit like that.
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alexei sayle
Yeah.
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Talal K
Incredible comments. and
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Esther
Incredible comments.
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Talal K
But on TikTok, still only 6,000 followers.
00:05:01.88
Esther
But on TikTok, still only 6,000 brands a year.
00:05:03.51
Talal K
But here is where the shock twist comes.
00:05:05.75
Esther
We're nearly done.
00:05:06.83
alexei sayle
ah
00:05:06.98
Talal K
ah We're nearly done. We can introduce our guest.
00:05:07.71
Esther
We can hit three.
00:05:08.31
alexei sayle
Twist. Not to twist.
00:05:11.45
Talal K
I posted the videos on Instagram.
00:05:11.81
Esther
I posted the videos Instagram.
00:05:13.58
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:05:13.77
Talal K
I didn't have that muting problem with Instagram, so the long video is unedited and beautiful on Instagram.
00:05:14.14
Esther
I didn't have that beauty problem. The
00:05:18.52
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:05:18.58
Talal K
um The first video, 71,000 views.
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Esther
wrong video is not edited.
00:05:21.16
Talal K
The second video, 528,000 views.
00:05:21.34
Esther
The first video is 71,000 views.
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alexei sayle
Right.
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Talal K
And the third video, 552,000 views.
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Esther
The second video is 528,000 views.
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alexei sayle
Ay, Kamalita.
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Talal K
and the third video five hundred and fifty two
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Esther
The third video is 532,000 views.
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Talal K
thousand view
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alexei sayle
Fuck.
00:05:35.51
Talal K
And in the last few days, we've gained 16, 17,000 followers.
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Esther
And in the last few days, it gained 67,000 views.
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Talal K
We now have 22.8 thousand followers on Instagram.
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Esther
I've never
00:05:45.55
Talal K
This is the most...
00:05:47.23
alexei sayle
Yeah, half a minute.
00:05:47.96
Talal K
This podcast was already the most popular thing I've ever been a part of and the most kind of views I've ever seen on anything, you know, and especially that Christmas video we made.
00:05:51.37
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:56.01
alexei sayle
yeah
00:05:56.43
Talal K
Like, I've never touched anything that has gotten that much attention.
00:05:57.20
Esther
Now, I'm in broken that record.
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Talal K
And now i we've broken the...
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alexei sayle
Okay. All
00:06:01.18
Esther
That's a six-year-old.
00:06:03.06
Talal K
that record for me personally, I know you've you're used to having four to 6 million viewers a week back in the nineties when there were only three channels on telly.
00:06:04.03
alexei sayle
right. Yeah.
00:06:08.67
alexei sayle
When I was back, only yeah, and back in the 80s and the 90s.
00:06:13.70
Talal K
Yeah.
00:06:14.15
Esther
Yes, it's a long time for you since, but your radio shows 10 minutes.
00:06:14.25
alexei sayle
When you had to watch me, there was nothing else.
00:06:14.53
Talal K
But it's been a long time for you since that, but your radio four show does get millions of, but this is fucking new for me.
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alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:06:18.29
Esther
This is
00:06:19.69
alexei sayle
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
00:06:21.18
Talal K
This is over a million views on a stupid or an old man doing a dumb dance in his garden.
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Esther
what you do. This is our million. We're not going to some parts in this garden, it's incredible that
00:06:26.16
Talal K
And it's incredible. And I'm blown away. Um, This is encouraging me to do more of this.
00:06:31.31
alexei sayle
So Instagram is, yeah.
00:06:33.13
Talal K
Have you got it in you to do some more of these, Alexei?
00:06:33.16
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:06:35.28
Esther
we've had blown away.
00:06:35.97
Talal K
Tell me your reflections.
00:06:36.39
alexei sayle
Sure.
00:06:37.41
Talal K
Tell me what you thought about that day and what you think about this new information.
00:06:37.80
Esther
Tell what feel about that
00:06:39.67
alexei sayle
No, well, yeah, no, I think that, um you know, it's it's very gratifying.
00:06:40.02
Esther
It's nice to see them.
00:06:45.41
alexei sayle
Obviously, you had me worried there with the TikTok figures because I thought I'd already peaked, really. um You know, the the the the internet is ah is a very cruel mistress in that way.
00:06:54.92
Talal K
Mm-hmm.
00:06:55.96
alexei sayle
So it's nice to see that for whatever fucking reason, it's impossible to... divine why, but on obviously on Instagram it's still catching fire and, you know, we'll see where, you know, see where that goes, really.
00:07:07.09
Talal K
Yeah.
00:07:07.44
Esther
Yeah. Every 16 minutes. I mean, I think that it's, yeah, it's, yeah, it's, yeah.
00:07:08.09
alexei sayle
All
00:07:08.58
Talal K
I think every 15 minutes we're getting another hundred followers on Instagram currently, something like that.
00:07:08.96
Esther
And actually, I it's one the, yeah, yeah.
00:07:11.77
alexei sayle
right. Okay.
00:07:13.63
Talal K
It's crazy.
00:07:14.04
alexei sayle
So, I mean, I think that, yeah, I think that, and I mean, yeah it's, yeah, it's stupid, but it's, you know, it's it's obviously stupid on one level and it's ridiculous and kind of, you know, absurd old man dancing on his back patio.
00:07:30.35
Talal K
Hmm.
00:07:30.40
alexei sayle
Actually, I noticed one of the comments on YouTube said, you know, looks like a nice house for a Marxist.
00:07:37.36
Esther
Yeah.
00:07:37.94
alexei sayle
And that's it it's perhaps something we can address in later videos, because that's a fundamental misunderstanding of Marxism, that Marxism is not a kind of philosophy of self-delegation, that all Marxism is, is an analysis of history, and then a suggestion for how to how to move the game on, as it were, but based on that analysis of
00:07:53.05
Talal K
Yeah.
00:08:00.03
Talal K
yeah
00:08:00.69
alexei sayle
of class so that the commentator on YouTube, your your analysis is is wrong, comrade, and I think you need a ah ah long um stood long session of self-criticism and possibly transfer to a Labour camp.
00:08:06.31
Esther
so yeah
00:08:16.81
alexei sayle
um So, ah yeah, no, I think that, um you know, it's interesting to see how we can keep this going, really. I mean, I think maybe, I mean, the first one is just a general, i mean, essentially just a general kind of some nuggets about the what what Marxism is. I mean, I think in the but if we do some more, then I'll tackle...
00:08:38.93
alexei sayle
so yeah drilled a bit deeper down into maybe we can either do false consciousness which is where of course we get Marx Marx's great quote that religion is the opium of the people and it's basically an analysis of how
00:08:43.14
Esther
and false consciousness.
00:08:54.21
alexei sayle
people conspire in their own oppression, really. I think it's a year that really marks, as far as I know, Marx and Engels got there first, and it's as true today, and more true today, in a sense, as it's ever been.
00:08:56.71
Talal K
Mm-hmm.
00:09:05.66
alexei sayle
So perhaps we can do false consciousness, or we can do alienation, whereas Marx and Engels analysed what...
00:09:10.06
Esther
alienation the Marx Marx Marx Marx
00:09:15.36
alexei sayle
I mean, i talked a little bit about that, where saying that the work of... in feudalism works their own land, and in... and capitalism has to go to essentially where the capitalist is.
00:09:28.88
Talal K
yeah
00:09:28.97
alexei sayle
And um we can talk more about alienation that and and about you know the nature of production, really, how capitalism is... you know I mean, the worker makes something and then the capitalist, the owner of the factory, then takes often the large part of the profit that arises from the making of that production and therefore thee the worker, the person who makes that product, is is alienated from...
00:09:54.28
alexei sayle
What was our agent calling that? um is ah Is alienated from that from what they make, really. And and so... the the um And it also...
00:10:05.30
Esther
and it's also capitalism this system is
00:10:06.43
alexei sayle
points out, to you know which is never acknowledged, that capitalism, this system, this economic system under which we live, is a system of exploitation. It is the worker is always exploited, and there are a lot of conclusions that can be derived from that, really, so maybe we'll do that.
00:10:18.75
Talal K
Indeed.
00:10:25.90
alexei sayle
So either alienation, surplus value, or false consciousness, I think, in the next video, and more stupid dancing.
00:10:26.62
Talal K
Well, it's...
00:10:32.47
Talal K
Amazing.
00:10:32.71
Esther
amazing
00:10:32.82
Talal K
And speaking of alienation, I fear maybe we're alienating our guest.
00:10:35.96
alexei sayle
Yes, our guest. was just saying, well, first of all, because ah because you're the link had gone into her, it's Esther Monito, but her link had gone into her,
00:10:37.45
Talal K
No. No.
00:10:49.99
Talal K
junk.
00:10:49.99
alexei sayle
junk folder and so I did the basis I think of my um Eddie Izzard style act in a foreign language you know because my French was going to be start off with liberty egalite salon de tay and similarly i so I just said where's Esther but I said it in Spanish which is actually donde esta is that
00:10:50.08
Esther
I think that my style acting in foreign language is quite French. Similarly, just said,
00:11:14.16
alexei sayle
Where is Donde Esther? Esther.
00:11:16.69
Talal K
but
00:11:16.80
alexei sayle
So that's my entire Eddie. Anyway, hi Esther.
00:11:20.82
Talal K
but
00:11:21.47
alexei sayle
Thank you for sitting through our ah wallowing in self-repearlation.
00:11:23.73
Esther
No, I enjoyed it.
00:11:25.59
alexei sayle
Thank you.
00:11:26.09
Esther
And also, just to let you know, eight and left no crumbs is not referenced to your weight. It is 100% down to, it's an expression of when somebody executes something flawlessly.
00:11:37.50
alexei sayle
Oh, really? Wow. Well...
00:11:40.58
Esther
there
00:11:41.63
alexei sayle
Thank you and thank the internet. i thought it was like who ate all the pies or something like that.
00:11:45.55
Esther
go. No, that's very different meaning.
00:11:50.38
Talal K
it's all dependent on how many it's all dependent on how many crumbs are left that's the the factor that
00:11:50.63
Esther
I don't think kids say that nowadays. Kids don't.
00:11:55.12
alexei sayle
Yeah, I see.
00:11:55.31
Esther
Yeah.
00:11:56.16
alexei sayle
Well, um and it's it's very gratifying to hear that.
00:11:59.81
Esther
Yeah.
00:12:00.01
alexei sayle
I think that's one of the things I think that I've, um, I have contributed to the culture really is that chance, you know, at football matches, you fat bastard, you fat bastard, you fat bastard, which I think comes from my, my TV show, you know, which the opening would always be, somebody would say about me, who's that fat bastard?
00:12:19.11
Talal K
Wow.
00:12:19.28
Esther
So it's now.
00:12:19.64
alexei sayle
ah Not a, not a positive thing to have, um,
00:12:22.52
Talal K
You're taking credit for you fat bastard.
00:12:24.97
alexei sayle
yeah you can't prove i'm wrong yes possibly yes that's actually that's really good you know you fat bastard but or who's that fat bastard yeah yeah yeah who's that fat bastard
00:12:26.41
Talal K
Huh?
00:12:27.72
Esther
What? Is that what you're going to have on your headstone?
00:12:35.67
Talal K
And it should be a double wide.
00:12:36.17
Esther
Now you'll lose some weight.
00:12:38.25
Talal K
should be a double wide grave.
00:12:44.62
alexei sayle
when i was in um When we were in Hollywood, when my during my briefs, my my failed career in the United States, we went to the Hollywood Cemetery, which is just behind Paramount Studios, and Mel Blanc, who did all the voices of the Looney Tunes characters, is buried there. And his grave zone says, says that that's all, folks.
00:13:06.33
Talal K
That's great, yeah.
00:13:06.86
alexei sayle
ah
00:13:07.10
Esther
oh that's good that's good I don't know what I'll have on mine
00:13:08.10
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:13:12.21
alexei sayle
Spike Milligan, of course, wanted to have, I told you ill,
00:13:13.94
Esther
yeah that's brilliant told you was sick he had it in Irish Gaelic didn't he on his yeah told you was sick that's
00:13:17.24
alexei sayle
yeah
00:13:17.49
Talal K
Oh, that's great.
00:13:20.62
alexei sayle
did he yeah yeah i don't know well maybe maybe you could think about your gravestone on maybe the listeners would like to think about their own gravestones
00:13:32.97
Esther
I invite the listeners think about their own deaths.
00:13:36.48
alexei sayle
dwell on their own multitudes let's just take a second to
00:13:37.13
Talal K
ah Send them in on a postcard.
00:13:39.84
alexei sayle
dwell on our own mortality. It's bizarre that ah the majority of people in this country, when they die, are rendered into the hands of the co-op as well. I don't know what that says about our society.
00:13:52.68
Esther
Oh, God, it's so, yeah. Oh, God, there is just nothing, nothing that's out of the grasps of making money, there?
00:13:58.85
alexei sayle
No, no, no. Anyway, Esther, welcome to the show.
00:14:02.69
Esther
Yes.
00:14:02.96
alexei sayle
tell us and Tell us a little bit about yourself. Really, I've seen you at many benefits for Palestine.
00:14:09.89
Talal K
and ah
00:14:10.33
Esther
but
00:14:11.83
Talal K
And for those at home who don't know Esther, if you've had your head buried in the sand, she's an incredible, brilliant stand-up comedian who ive I've had the pleasure of gigging with a lot. And we both kind of started around the same time, isn't it?
00:14:23.88
Talal K
And you were like working as a lecturer when you first started, right?
00:14:24.38
alexei sayle
But she's done a lot better than you, yeah.
00:14:29.53
Esther
I was, yeah. I was lecturing a little bit and then doing stand-up comedy.
00:14:30.75
Talal K
And...
00:14:34.70
Talal K
And I had the pleasure of seeing you fucking rocket to full on fledged professional comedian and fucking live at the Apollo and all that.
00:14:34.80
Esther
Yeah.
00:14:42.76
Talal K
And it's and you've got a tour coming up.
00:14:44.71
alexei sayle
Yeah. How'd you get on that?
00:14:45.83
Talal K
So ah
00:14:47.06
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:14:47.39
Esther
I ah do have a tour coming up.
00:14:49.04
Talal K
you're quite outspoken about Palestine. So this was a great fit to have you come on the show here.
00:14:54.91
Esther
and So, yes, I i do. i do have a tour coming up. And um yeah, it's it's it's called Slag Bomb.
00:15:08.31
Esther
um And um it's ah I will be i will be talking a little bit. ah Well, I'll be talking, which I'm trying to do more of.
00:15:19.14
Esther
Because my comedy has never been political per se, I'm not somebody who talks about politics in detachment from my own domestic living. So it's a way of talking about the impact of what's been going on when you're here and you have family in the region and how that kind of impacts just everyday daily life, because it's quite surreal,
00:15:43.68
Esther
Isn't it? I mean, you've been in that situation, I know, Talal, with the situation in Syria.
00:15:46.52
Talal K
Yeah.
00:15:47.76
Esther
It's quite surreal when you're here and then you've just got this kind of family who are living in a very, very different situation and you carry ah real guilt as well, don't you?
00:15:56.20
Talal K
Yeah. Because...
00:16:01.46
Esther
of like, is what is it that makes, what what what kind of life, what kind of world is it where the luck of the ground that you're born on just completely
00:16:01.59
Talal K
for For like...
00:16:11.13
Talal K
Yeah, it depends like how much danger you're in every day and how much death you see around you.
00:16:11.86
alexei sayle
Yeah. good
00:16:14.06
Esther
yeah yeah i'm half Lebanese yeah
00:16:14.78
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:16.64
Talal K
You're half Lebanese, of course, Esther.
00:16:18.43
alexei sayle
yeah So give tell us a bit more about your, well, how you came to your, well, your family history role and, and how that's affected you and how your road to comedy really, I suppose.
00:16:29.81
Esther
so my family history well um my my dad the Phoenicians um uh
00:16:34.23
alexei sayle
Tell me other people.
00:16:41.76
Esther
So my dad my dad's from Lebanon, my mum's from Gateshead, but my dad was ah essentially a bit of a nightmare.
00:16:52.22
Esther
um ah just kept getting kind of like kicked out of schools and various education institutions for just being a ah ah nightmare.
00:17:01.28
alexei sayle
in Lebanon.
00:17:02.29
Esther
in yeah and then he went to Egypt and just pissed farted about that. He was always very political, always very active and then he ended up ah coming to the UK when he was 14 he got enrolled for his A-levels at 14 because back then no on his own.
00:17:14.64
Talal K
Oh.
00:17:18.77
alexei sayle
Went with his family, or by himself. Really? Wow, that's it?
00:17:22.48
Esther
Yeah because they were like right you're going to England because you've literally caused enough trouble.
00:17:22.72
alexei sayle
well so
00:17:27.00
alexei sayle
Yikes. what ah can i i mean Which flavour of Lebanese? ah Sunni Chia?
00:17:32.28
Esther
he's Sydney yeah um something recently which I've been getting a lot of trolling about which is really weird because I don't I I'm not religious um but I had people following me and then all of a sudden I started getting this I thought you were Christian Lebanese didn't realize you were a Muslim one and I was like okay but like that's
00:17:33.33
alexei sayle
Sunni, right? Not that that matters.
00:17:54.36
Esther
crazy um but I think people assumed that I was Christian Lebanese maybe because I don't know I don't know ah but the moment I started speaking about Palestine they were like oh yeah a Muslim one was like well Muslim Christian why wouldn't I be speaking out about Palestine
00:17:54.50
alexei sayle
There.
00:17:55.45
Talal K
It's
00:18:07.86
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:18:10.19
Esther
um
00:18:10.27
alexei sayle
Anyway, so so your dad came up 14, he was just sent here to do his A-levels.
00:18:10.34
Talal K
is
00:18:14.97
Esther
yeah imagine it well yeah and well I think back then as well if you just kind of rocked up places
00:18:15.92
alexei sayle
How did that work? I mean, was that a more tolerant time, presumably, in a sense?
00:18:24.19
Esther
and said here's a letter it wasn't as you know kind of tech Tracy as it is today um and so he ended up doing his a-levels and then he went on to Newcastle to do his degree and um
00:20:14.17
alexei sayle
Hello, did you hear that?
00:20:23.83
Esther
Yeah, I've just spoken to the observer before coming on here.
00:20:26.77
alexei sayle
Oh, right, about the Palestine Action thing, or...
00:20:29.03
Esther
No, it's about the, ah because I signed um a letter to for what they called Lockwood Martin. We're having a conference at
00:20:35.76
alexei sayle
Lockheed Martin, yeah, our King's Place, yeah.
00:20:37.58
Esther
at King's Place so I was one of the that signed so um the Observer just wanted to talk about you know has um has you know the the impact of artists signing um or boycotting
00:20:39.11
alexei sayle
Yeah, I just pulled out of it, yeah.
00:20:53.92
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:20:54.50
Esther
um and I was just saying to them actually I was like you know it's such a difficult one because and I guess this comes down to a kind of capitalist market. It doesn't matter how high you climb up on on anything because there are so few corporations that are all interlinked and intertwined that own any kind of large space or or any kind of you know mainstream product that you will end up.
00:21:12.90
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:21:17.93
Esther
So at the at the end of the day, there is you can't expect artists en masse to boycott because they've got work. People have to pay bills and you'll always find that link. But it's so important that artists are putting pressure on because we are such a huge vocal space.
00:21:30.41
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:21:32.12
Esther
So it's um yeah it's been and she said to me she said oh have you lost work and um think i have but i was just like um i can't say for sure but i think i think yes yes yeah yeah but anyway
00:21:43.27
alexei sayle
I'm sure you have. Yeah.
00:21:47.10
alexei sayle
Uh, yeah, no, well it's, um, yeah, yeah, it's ah it is. It's difficult obviously to ask people to, but ah I think that what it feels like, I don't know, it's too, so many false dawns, but it feels a little like, um,
00:22:03.07
alexei sayle
The weather seems to be changing towards Israel. that all those people but like linburg People like Zadie Smith and Salman Rushdie, I don't think they're trying to cover their own arses in a way that they've seen that the you know that they're really the the revulsion towards Israel is so great that they now want to pretend that they condemned it all along.
00:22:20.38
Esther
Oh, really? And now they're coming out?
00:22:26.48
alexei sayle
Tracy Emin, for God's sake.
00:22:28.68
Talal K
ah really i really have to try and not get angry when I hear it.
00:22:28.73
alexei sayle
Anyway,
00:22:32.33
Talal K
Every time I hear the narrative is changing.
00:22:35.18
alexei sayle
yeah
00:22:35.33
Talal K
the language is saying, the news is saying, you know even politicians are starting to speak out. It makes me furious because is this like all I think like, is this what it took?
00:22:40.41
alexei sayle
yeah where were you yeah this is how many that we know yes yes there is the price yeah yeah yeah i'd be annoyed though if they get all the they get the kudos another ben elton
00:22:44.08
Talal K
like this is This is the limit then. Now we know how many dead children. And it just makes me so angry. But it's like, from the beginning, we were saying it's not too late to join the right side and we have to stand by that, I suppose.
00:22:56.67
Esther
Yeah. yeah, yeah.
00:23:00.89
Talal K
They get the credit, yeah.
00:23:02.77
Esther
No, no, no. it's It's the people that put the pressure on but they're the ones who can help make the make the change. And that's why you just need to you just need to say it's not too late. Because the moment the moment we stop seeing each other as human beings is the moment we've completely failed.
00:23:12.40
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:23:17.31
Esther
So we have to.
00:23:17.84
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:23:18.35
Esther
We just have to. You have to see the humanity in people. Otherwise, it's going to destroy you It's going to eat you up inside and and it will make you, yeah.
00:23:27.15
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:23:27.48
Esther
Angerness is nothing but a cancer.
00:23:27.63
Talal K
Oh. I love that.
00:23:29.65
Esther
And so you've got to just keep...
00:23:32.41
alexei sayle
But that's, i mean, that's you're describing the average Israeli, aren't you?
00:23:32.60
Esther
This is my...
00:23:36.41
alexei sayle
Refusing to see the humanity of a Palestinian.
00:23:38.60
Esther
Yeah.
00:23:39.45
alexei sayle
and Or the average average Robert Jenrick.
00:23:40.77
Esther
Yeah. yeah
00:23:43.81
alexei sayle
The average Kemi Badenoch.
00:23:44.23
Esther
Yeah.
00:23:46.27
alexei sayle
Fucking idiots.
00:23:47.60
Esther
God, that Jimmy Carr thing.
00:23:48.08
alexei sayle
Anyways.
00:23:48.49
Talal K
ah
00:23:50.10
alexei sayle
Jimmy Carr, yes, hosting.
00:23:51.30
Esther
Isn't that mental?
00:23:53.02
alexei sayle
Well.
00:23:53.42
Esther
Because everyone was like, yeah, but he must have been paid, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, the man's a million... He doesn't need it.
00:23:58.26
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:59.95
Esther
And even like from a kudos status, it's like Kemi Badenoch and Nigel Farage, these are people that you'd be like mocking on eight out of 10 cats. Like what?
00:24:07.35
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:24:07.81
Esther
That's so weird.
00:24:09.05
Talal K
Yeah.
00:24:09.74
alexei sayle
ah He's a, yes.
00:24:10.72
Esther
Very weird.
00:24:10.82
alexei sayle
yeah Well, I don't know him, obviously.
00:24:12.99
Talal K
Just...
00:24:13.27
alexei sayle
I met him once. and said He's very nice to me. But, um ah yeah, I don't know. I mean, fucking Maria Eagle as well. I mean, all those fucking people speaking at that thing, you know.
00:24:24.49
Esther
Yeah.
00:24:27.13
Esther
Yeah.
00:24:28.42
alexei sayle
Terrible. Anyway, we were talking about, so you your father, sorry um'm sorry, Linda came in and disturbed me. that So,
00:24:33.89
Esther
That's all right. But i love that you said Linda's coming in. All I could hear was the sound of a cat. I was like, i was like, wow, this man's got a really, really intense relationship with his cat.
00:24:42.05
alexei sayle
Very intelligent cat.
00:24:43.33
Esther
Sorry, i'm going have to stop.
00:24:43.79
alexei sayle
Yeah. but
00:24:44.82
Esther
Linda's come in.
00:24:47.62
Talal K
hello Wilf hello Wilf yeah you were to telling us about your dad doing his A-levels
00:24:48.07
alexei sayle
That was Wolf. That was Wolf.
00:24:53.57
alexei sayle
Sorry. So you're done.
00:24:53.89
Esther
So he, yeah, so he ended up, he ended, yeah, he ended up and going to Newcastle University and, and ah he joined the Communist Society and, fucking hell, I don't know.
00:24:59.40
alexei sayle
Right.
00:25:04.75
alexei sayle
Right. What year was this? what When would this be?
00:25:10.19
Esther
um'm so crap with dates.
00:25:10.32
alexei sayle
Well, how was it?
00:25:11.43
Esther
I mean, if he was born, 46, 46, was he born 1946? So, I don't know.
00:25:19.02
Talal K
I don't know.
00:25:20.40
Esther
I can't work any dates out.
00:25:21.55
alexei sayle
So, so say was 20 and 66 up before he was he was at Newcastle University before the Civil War in the Lebanon before things got really shitty.
00:25:21.72
Esther
I don't know. I'm asking,
00:25:23.10
Talal K
Probably early seventy s late 60s.
00:25:23.76
Esther
but Let's say 20.
00:25:24.15
Talal K
Yeah.
00:25:24.94
Esther
Yeah.
00:25:30.50
Esther
Yeah.
00:25:31.73
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:25:32.10
Esther
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and then ah And then that's where he met my mum doing sit-ins and protests against the Vietnam War.
00:25:37.55
alexei sayle
Right.
00:25:39.36
Esther
um
00:25:39.92
Talal K
ah
00:25:40.72
alexei sayle
So 68.
00:25:40.88
Esther
Yeah. And so then they went back Lebanon. My sister was born in Beirut. Yeah. and that's when things started to kick off. She was she was born under fire and then ah they moved to Greece where they had my middle sister and then ah they came here and had me.
00:26:03.32
alexei sayle
All right. And so what was that experience like?
00:26:05.32
Esther
but
00:26:06.75
alexei sayle
i mean, it's interesting. and I don't know whether, obviously, this is a ah distorted sample group, but it seems to me a lot of particularly women comedians that I've seen at Palestine Benefits seem to have a similar background to you in that one parent is either Arab or from the subcontinent, Indian, Pakistani, Indian.
00:26:29.38
alexei sayle
And one isn't really there seems to be there seems to be some I mean, I might as I said, this is not
00:26:34.27
Esther
I think being mixed heritage gives you um a real ah identity challenge and I think it makes you become quite a chameleon and I think it makes you really
00:26:37.69
Talal K
you
00:26:40.67
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:26:47.85
Esther
wf into lots of different identities and I think that creates a lovely foundation for comedy.
00:26:53.75
alexei sayle
Yeah, that kind of tension really. Yeah.
00:26:56.18
Esther
Yeah, I think the fact that you're navigating two worlds continuously because you've got two parents who are from two different worlds and then you're born into a third different entity and then you're navigating between the two of them.
00:27:05.20
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:27:07.00
Esther
I think it creates a lot of comedy material, definitely.
00:27:07.27
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:27:10.81
alexei sayle
I mean, how how was that? How was that experience for you specifically growing up? mean, where did it?
00:27:15.42
Esther
um
00:27:16.38
alexei sayle
Right.
00:27:16.83
Esther
So I grew up i grew up in Essex, but during the time of the Gulf War.
00:27:22.28
alexei sayle
right
00:27:22.44
Esther
so And I grew up in, I would say, quite right-leaning Tory town. um There was an army barracks. And at the time, obviously, all popular culture was continuously embedding the notion that Arabs are backwards, savage, disgusting, dirty.
00:27:40.74
Esther
You know, I i talked about this in one of my shows that I took up to Edinburgh, where I was just showing all the things that you were growing up watching, you know, Inspector Gadget, um Transformers, and how they just all had embedded and images and rhetoric about Arabs that as a child you're just absorbing.
00:27:56.92
Talal K
Yeah.
00:27:59.66
Esther
So that was not fun.
00:28:03.47
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:28:04.09
Esther
growing up in that small town.
00:28:07.75
alexei sayle
Well, it's also, it's an interesting, I mean, interesting, it just occurred to me when you talk about an army town that I remember going, we just had a day out in Windsor, you know, which is fine.
00:28:07.69
Esther
So even I'm
00:28:17.77
alexei sayle
It was a nice day. But then occasionally you'd see some men, young men in the street and you think those people, their behavior and their attitude and their opinions, they are, they seem fucking crazy. And of course they were soldiers.
00:28:30.32
Esther
Yeah.
00:28:30.49
alexei sayle
And so you, I can't remember who it is. there There was a comic. can't remember who it was now. i think was from all the shots of my generation maybe slightly later. So, I mean, you just, you've got it within your midst, these fucking insane individual. i mean, me I mean, deliberately kind of driven insane in a sense.
00:28:50.46
alexei sayle
I don't know whether um that that affected.
00:28:50.48
Esther
Yeah, I mean growing up because I never went to so we had like squaddy pubs and so you just never went to those pubs so I didn't really interact that much with the with the with the army guys.
00:28:56.26
alexei sayle
Right. Yeah.
00:29:00.81
alexei sayle
Squatty wine bars, Squatty bakeries.
00:29:01.55
Esther
the Yeah the only squaddy streets, it was actually very similar to Hebron
00:29:06.23
alexei sayle
Squatty Pilates studios. Right.
00:29:08.26
Talal K
Yeah.
00:29:08.32
Esther
Yeah, it was all very divided. Pilato Studios. But I will say this. there was um i was part of the town band. Hello. And the...
00:29:17.60
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:29:18.67
Esther
and the ah young guys who couldn't afford musical instruments. If you join the army town band, you were taught how to play an instrument and you were given the instrument play.
00:29:26.99
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:29:30.91
Esther
So they would come and play sometimes with the town band and they were the nicest blokes ever.
00:29:34.81
alexei sayle
Really?
00:29:35.10
Esther
And I did realise that the army, it did make me realise how much the army for working class people can provide.
00:29:35.25
alexei sayle
Okay, yeah.
00:29:41.74
alexei sayle
Yeah, workers in uniform is the, yeah.
00:29:42.23
Esther
But obviously, if you're, yeah, if you're going into, you know, it can provide skills and and a job and security.
00:29:43.99
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:29:48.56
Esther
And that's what, you know, it really plays on. But obviously, it's also training people to, to you know, to kill, which has its, it's never natural.
00:29:54.40
alexei sayle
Yeah. it it's a good i mean
00:29:56.64
Esther
It's never normal. It's never healthy, is it?
00:29:57.66
alexei sayle
yeah But that's a fair corrective, really, to my middle-class horror there, being in Windsor for the day, that, you know, you have to point that out, that it is, you know, the armed forces, I mean, particularly the United States, but even here, the armed forces are a kind of route to, you know, for a working-class kid, you know.
00:30:14.32
Esther
Yeah, I think just...
00:30:14.92
Talal K
That's the selling point, isn't it?
00:30:15.08
Esther
so
00:30:16.12
Talal K
Always on the TV ads. there's always a selling point. It's like you can use it as a way to get an education, ah build your build your skills.
00:30:18.99
alexei sayle
Yeah, but sometimes yeah. Well, it's that, yeah.
00:30:22.33
Esther
Yeah.
00:30:24.59
Talal K
and Even I've seen army adverts where they talk about life after the army.
00:30:29.12
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:30:29.16
Talal K
It's like come back to the world with new skills kind of thing.
00:30:29.70
Esther
But that's the thing, is that we the veterans are treated so badly. I mean, i mean the volume now of blokes in, you know, car camouflage gear sat begging in tube stations and stuff, and you're like...
00:30:36.56
alexei sayle
Yeah. Homelessness. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:41.15
Talal K
Yeah.
00:30:41.74
Esther
These are young guys who would have gone, this is a way out. This is a way of having a little bit of, you know, kind of status and money and all the rest of it. And then they get sent into these. mean, can you imagine, like, you know, where they've been sent and the things they would have been groomed and the things they've seen and that, you know, the way they're kind of pushed.
00:30:56.52
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:30:58.85
Esther
and um yeah And I know everybody has the right to make their own decisions, but it's so easily said, isn't it? So easily.
00:31:04.61
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:31:05.30
Esther
so and I just think and then they're kind of turfed out and you just think the whole thing is so beautiful. being bleak, the whole war machine.
00:31:14.83
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:31:14.87
Esther
You know, you just groom these young people and you shove them in to do violent things. It's going to mess up their mental health. And then yeah all these people are just killed and maimed and tortured.
00:31:20.83
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:31:22.75
Esther
And it's just the whole thing. And the only people profiting from it is some a fucking bastard who sat with his hands in his pocket.
00:31:29.36
alexei sayle
general dynamic
00:31:29.33
Esther
And you're just like, how does any anyone think, oh, this will bring democracy? This is the way to bring peace to a region.
00:31:33.64
alexei sayle
yeah Yeah, yeah.
00:31:35.27
Esther
No, you're not. You're just destroying human beings en masse.
00:31:37.34
alexei sayle
Well, I think, yeah, I mean, move i mean what you're describing really, ah but mean, that's Israel, isn't it? An entire country that is a fucking militarized, insane society, I think.
00:31:50.57
Esther
g Do you think that, um because we're starting to see now, I don't know if you're starting to see it on Instagram, the protests that are starting to happen in Yeah, think there's no point.
00:32:03.39
alexei sayle
um Yeah, I think there's still very few. my I mean, it's ah perhaps so that that the Israeli public, by and large, part i mean in a sense, because they're lied to, but still seem to be kind of on board with the genocide, really.
00:32:14.44
Talal K
That's a slither. It's a slither.
00:32:17.35
alexei sayle
I mean, apart from a few brave individuals. I mean, more and more brave individuals, but, you know, it's still a long way to go with the Israeli population, I think.
00:32:20.16
Esther
you know
00:32:24.73
Esther
I know, like those young people who refusing to join the army.
00:32:27.57
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, I mean, incredibly.
00:32:28.21
Esther
And you just see videos and they're just having the shit kicked out of them.
00:32:31.14
alexei sayle
Yes, yes. It's a fucking... but I don't know. Yeah, i just... um Yeah, I mean, but the analogy with, like, the armful... I i mean, I remember years ago, was when I was most working mostly as a writer and going to a poetry reading at the Imperial War Museum, and there was a poet there who has been a former US ranger, who and there was British kind of military brass there, and he'd written this poem, I don't know what it's called, Heir Bullet, particularly...
00:32:46.14
Esther
The Imperial War Museum was a power in there, the Irish Ranger, and the British military press there. And the British Prime Minister was a really amazing power. It was about the same.
00:33:01.41
alexei sayle
particularly really amazing poem called Here Bullet, just about saying, I'm here, bullet, bullet, come and get me you know here. It's about the kind of experience of being under fire. and But then he suddenly started talking about how in the States there's huge facilities for ah members of the armed forces, both mostly female but male as well, who've been raped.
00:33:22.16
alexei sayle
by other members. And he said, also in Britain, don't tell me that you have also got ah epidemic proportions to sexual violence.
00:33:28.60
Esther
Yeah, I can imagine.
00:33:30.94
alexei sayle
And the top brass got so uncomfortable at this, really. but i think ah But I also think in that, I mean, expanding that out to Israel, I think that Israel is...
00:33:38.11
Esther
Well, also, if you're using if you're using sexual you know if you're if you're using um sexual assault as ah as a war tactic as well, then it's going to happen within its own unit.
00:33:49.15
Talal K
Yeah.
00:33:49.41
Esther
It's not just, you know, you're you're creating a mentality towards violence and rape, which is incredibly skewed.
00:33:49.82
alexei sayle
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:54.52
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:33:56.91
Esther
Yeah, it's...
00:33:57.42
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:33:57.84
Esther
ah Oh, God. Oh, God.
00:34:00.08
alexei sayle
So we've wandered a long way from your reminiscences of multicultural being brought up falafel sandwiches at school for lunch.
00:34:00.12
Esther
oh
00:34:07.40
alexei sayle
I'm sorry.
00:34:08.04
Esther
I didn't have the same experience. I remember Talal when you used to do your standup about your mum going, I will make her a sandwich so normal.
00:34:15.00
Talal K
Yeah.
00:34:15.39
Esther
And she was, ah yeah, drizzling the olive oil over your Philadelphia.
00:34:18.98
Talal K
Don't give away my material, please. i It's the only material I have.
00:34:20.33
Esther
um'm sorry.
00:34:22.26
Talal K
I still do it now. Stop, stop. Yeah, no, yeah.
00:34:24.57
Esther
Okay.
00:34:25.60
Talal K
Mum would make me a Philadelphia sandwich like I requested, but it would be in pita bread with olive oil lovingly drizzled on it. um
00:34:33.01
Esther
Yes.
00:34:33.67
Talal K
Yeah.
00:34:34.21
alexei sayle
so and So you grew up...
00:34:34.42
Esther
Yeah.
00:34:34.62
Talal K
You didn't have that. You didn't have those packed lunches.
00:34:37.61
Esther
No, because, well, my mum did my um pack lunches, but i remember because my mum was a full-time teacher and she had three kids, so she used to get us the pre-packed sandwiches from Waitrose, which I used to hate, because we only had Waitrose.
00:34:47.87
Talal K
la, la.
00:34:48.11
Esther
Hello. Tesco's came along in the 90s, and we were very excited about it.
00:34:50.62
alexei sayle
Really? That's the reverse? Yeah. There. There.
00:34:54.17
Esther
But there was only a Waitrose, and to have these Waitrose pre-packed sandwiches, and I used to hate them. I used to hate them. I used to cry and cry and cry because I hated them. ah So I ended up having school dinners in the end, which was... so pretty bleak but no I didn't have didn't have the the Syrian so in lunchbox
00:35:05.95
Talal K
For laughter.
00:35:09.60
Talal K
foraf
00:35:12.56
alexei sayle
so that what was your So what did your dad do? I mean, is he still alive, your father? Yeah.
00:35:16.67
Esther
yes ah that I've had somebody troll it because I ran recently the Manchester Marathon for Medical Aid Palestine and I posted a picture of me and my dad and my dad wears the kefir.
00:35:24.79
alexei sayle
that
00:35:28.84
Esther
He always has worn the kefir. And so somebody wrote underneath going, I'm going to investigate your dad because I want him to be deported. He should be deported. And i was like, well, if you could do it before Sunday, that would be really helpful because he's doing my fucking nothing.
00:35:38.02
alexei sayle
Fuck.
00:35:41.18
Esther
Yeah.
00:35:43.72
Talal K
Oh!
00:35:44.28
alexei sayle
Is he still in work? it was a
00:35:45.91
Esther
No, no, no, he's retired, he's in his late 70s, but he um he worked and he ah you work ah for um a company that that created but audio engineering, and so they'd go into buildings like United Nations buildings and stuff, and so you know the equipment that translates everything into different languages when someone's speaking, he created yeah he was the audio engineer that that fitted that equipment.
00:35:46.60
alexei sayle
Yeah, he retired.
00:36:03.97
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:36:06.03
Talal K
Wow!
00:36:06.31
alexei sayle
All right, okay.
00:36:10.97
Talal K
wow
00:36:11.94
Esther
So he went to all the embassies. There's not a country in the on the planet he hasn't been to, that yet i' apart from Israel, but um he hasn't been to that's fitted in the United Nations buildings, yeah, and embassies and stuff.
00:36:22.99
Talal K
That's sick. Yeah.
00:36:23.67
alexei sayle
That sounds interesting.
00:36:24.42
Esther
Yeah.
00:36:24.71
alexei sayle
so I mean, i mean you so you were growing up at school, and i mean, who you know we and so how did i guess how well how did your you mixed background affect your friendships, and who did you mix with, and so on and so forth?
00:36:38.74
Esther
and It was not... straightforward and there was quite a lot of racist rhetoric um and um even my teacher would call me a dirty Arab so that's a joke no you just be i remember once like an r RE it was i just shut up you like pute your hand down you dirty Arab yeah yeah
00:36:46.69
Talal K
yeah
00:36:53.01
alexei sayle
As a joke, I mean, like a joke.
00:37:03.06
Talal K
Fucking hell.
00:37:03.14
alexei sayle
Fucking hell.
00:37:05.67
Esther
so it was just kind of commonplace it was just
00:37:06.57
Talal K
i Yeah, I had fat Arab, hairy Arab, sweaty Arab but at school.
00:37:13.31
Esther
Well, because the word Arab was an insult.
00:37:15.27
Talal K
It's the, yeah, it's a four letter word, isn't it?
00:37:16.65
Esther
So it wasn't even, it wasn't even, you know, the sweaty, the hairy, the whatever.
00:37:17.40
Talal K
Yeah, it's so messed up.
00:37:22.33
Esther
That wasn't even, that, you know, was kind of the okay bit. It was the the main, the main weight of the insult was by calling you an Arab. And so when I started doing comedy, i still was like, wow, because I came from this small town where you would almost try and shield your identity somewhat.
00:37:43.20
Esther
So when I started doing comedy, those very first few gigs, I kept saying Middle East because, and I didn't, and I wasn't even conscious of it until somebody who was at one of the gigs went, why are you saying Middle East?
00:37:49.51
alexei sayle
Right.
00:37:56.39
Esther
Like, what does that mean? Like, it it just makes the audience go, well where, you know, Turkey, Israel, Syria, like what, what, what were you talking about?
00:38:02.90
alexei sayle
ah
00:38:04.97
Esther
And I was like, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I've realized I'm saying that. Not so much in London. In London, I'd say Lebanese or Arab. But when I was out of London and I suddenly felt I was in these like parochial areas, which were like the area the area that I grew up in, i would suddenly go Middle East because I was too terrified to say Arab.
00:38:12.35
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:38:18.65
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:38:22.16
alexei sayle
Right.
00:38:22.87
Esther
So I realized that actually it had really been... embedded in me how much Arab was this negative word. So I forced myself, i was like right, no, I've got to conscious of that.
00:38:33.28
Esther
So I forced myself to be speaking more and more Arab culture, Arab dad, our so that you, that's the only way you normalize it. Because then people who may have had the same thinking and breeding that I've been embedded with growing up, and then walking away going, it's just, just family, isn't it?
00:38:47.65
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:38:50.78
alexei sayle
And so how did what was your route into comedy then? You went to university and on all that stuff.
00:38:55.99
Esther
I went to university and all that stuff. I was a teacher and then I start i didn't start doing comedy till I was in my thirties and i was on maternity leave with two two babies.
00:39:02.10
alexei sayle
I was quite... Yeah. Wow.
00:39:04.74
Esther
And some would say that I turned ah postnatal breakdown into a career.
00:39:11.52
Talal K
Congrats.
00:39:11.64
Esther
That's what I would say.
00:39:12.89
Talal K
ah
00:39:13.87
alexei sayle
Well, you know, whatever works, I guess, in a sense.
00:39:14.59
Talal K
ah congrat
00:39:16.67
alexei sayle
I mean, ah yeah, you said you were ah you were ah you were a college or you were teaching...
00:39:22.57
Esther
I taught, well, I taught all over, but when Talal met me, I was ah lecturing at UEL for a little bit. um And I was on the Foundation Sociology degree there. um and But I taught film and media at sixth form mainly.
00:39:36.95
Talal K
Yeah.
00:39:37.03
alexei sayle
you in that i was Because I was a college lecturer. Was it the same union, Nat Fahey, the National Association of Teachers in Further and Higher Education? Was that still the union?
00:39:45.34
Esther
No, I was in, remember Naphtali, I was, was my union?
00:39:46.72
alexei sayle
Nat Fahey.
00:39:50.42
Esther
ah union
00:39:53.10
Esther
National, no, NUT I was with.
00:39:54.91
alexei sayle
Annuity, fair enough.
00:39:56.09
Esther
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:56.39
alexei sayle
But that's that is quite, because um but I know academia is not what it was, but to be teaching at university, on the university and even sixth form, to be teaching media and stuff, to you know, you get your like holiday and mean will you pay you get holiday pay and a pension, and then to give all that up for the life of the strolling minstrel.
00:39:56.72
Esther
Yeah.
00:40:13.56
Talal K
Yeah.
00:40:14.77
Esther
yeah I know, Alexi, don't.
00:40:21.14
Esther
Don't. I sometimes think about sick pain. I'm like, God, isn't it lush?
00:40:26.44
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:28.41
Esther
It's so lush because obviously you're sick, that's it, your money. think, that wife, you know, the other person the
00:40:31.92
alexei sayle
I used to think, it's like my best friend and Harry, you know, worked on the buses. And London Transport, they had like a flying club and a fucking, you know, like a rifle club. And, you know, they had extensive rehab facilities for all their drunken...
00:40:47.74
alexei sayle
tube drivers and bus drivers.
00:40:49.37
Esther
They bloody need it.
00:40:49.55
alexei sayle
But the sometimes, yeah, oh, yeah.
00:40:51.99
Esther
Can't have loads of drunks just smashing the bus.
00:40:52.30
alexei sayle
It wasn't it wasn't it wasn't altruism. it was but it was yeah But I just thought sometimes, you I mean, remember he... it's not you know the remember I remember his garage, it was a more complicated.
00:41:03.61
alexei sayle
But, I mean, going on strike because there was no toast in the canteen. And I just think, if you're a fucking comedian, I mean, they like you know, you you don't... the yeah people can complain um this is not um This is not a criticism. It's just an observation that people...
00:41:17.82
alexei sayle
you know, get fired and are freaked out about it. a comeut You get fired every night in a sense, don't you, as an entertainer, as an actor, you get fired after a few weeks.
00:41:25.57
Esther
you know, get
00:41:27.96
alexei sayle
You know, it's the constant insecurity of our lives.
00:41:28.28
Talal K
Mm-hmm.
00:41:31.21
alexei sayle
We're the ones who suffer the most.
00:41:33.54
Esther
you find every 90% thing. Yeah. Do you think that's, that's, I'm just thinking about, um the the whole idea now that cancel culture is rife, do you think it is?
00:41:43.74
Esther
Do you think it's something that's effective or do you think it's almost like a bit of a Damocles sword?
00:41:49.73
alexei sayle
I don't, I think I'm, I don't, I mean, I'm kind of, you know, the French have a kind of, or the combat, you know, outside of kind of the battle, really, you know, I think I'm kind of all the combat in a sense.
00:42:02.23
alexei sayle
I don't know is answer. What do you mean by, well, first of all, let's let's go back to why you, we'll come we'll circle back to that.
00:42:12.25
Esther
Okay, sorry.
00:42:13.16
alexei sayle
But um ah first of all, let's just, so you gave up your pension and your health benefits and a life of respect to become clown.
00:42:21.62
Esther
Yes.
00:42:24.62
Esther
Well, don't know teachers are respected, let's be honest, no.
00:42:26.73
alexei sayle
Not anymore. That's true. No, it used to be.
00:42:28.79
Talal K
Especially media, media teachers.
00:42:29.20
Esther
um Especially media teachers. Especially because I was teaching, I was teaching at um a school literally just before I, ah when I quit stand up, I was teaching at school and you would just have loads of students who would just be like, so i can't do your subject because my parents are like, you have to do proper subjects.
00:42:33.92
alexei sayle
i would
00:42:48.85
Esther
And you'd just be like, okay,
00:42:51.24
Talal K
Oh. Fuck.
00:42:53.34
Esther
we're not doing, we're not doing your crappy subject. So ah yeah, it didn't have, it probably didn't have respect for, I wouldn't say it had respect, but it was a nine to five.
00:42:59.47
alexei sayle
No.
00:43:02.51
Esther
i had my weekends off. i had sick pay. I had the holidays and I had a pension. Yes, you are right. You are right.
00:43:08.84
alexei sayle
but And then what happened?
00:43:09.66
Esther
But I do sometimes think, so I went on maternity leave and had kids, but I do sometimes think now for the money that I earn doing, let's say, 20 minutes at the store, I would have had to have done five hours of shouting.
00:43:10.47
alexei sayle
I'm kids.
00:43:21.94
Talal K
Sorry.
00:43:25.10
alexei sayle
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, the money is, yeah.
00:43:27.48
Esther
So there is that. There is that. um But I, yeah, so I had two small kids. i was on, ah my daughter was not two yet. My son was five months. um And I so did a comedy course.
00:43:41.80
Esther
And ah really just to kind of get out of the house once a week.
00:43:43.00
alexei sayle
Where, which which one?
00:43:45.81
Esther
And, you know, it was the one at Camden Comedy School.
00:43:47.26
alexei sayle
Which was the comedy course?
00:43:51.73
alexei sayle
Don't know was who took who's the the moving, who's the genius behind that? The moving genius.
00:43:56.69
Esther
I can't remember. Keith Palmer, I think.
00:43:59.22
alexei sayle
Don't know the gentleman, but I'm sure he's fine.
00:44:02.08
Esther
I think with a lot of these courses, what it is, it's just the kick to kind of get you on stage really, isn't it Because I would never have, I mean, I didn't want to stand up.
00:44:06.42
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
00:44:09.39
Esther
I was like, my friend wanted to do the course. I was like, I'll just come along. Then it's something to do once a week that is not, being sat at home with two kids.
00:44:17.90
alexei sayle
Right.
00:44:18.72
Esther
It's something that's, you know, creative and different and a bit exciting. But I think if you're getting in, if you want to get into stand-up, it's quite daunting to just go, just going to go to this local open mic and just stand up on stage.
00:44:29.60
Esther
It is quite a daunting experience.
00:44:30.36
alexei sayle
Christ, yeah. Yeah.
00:44:31.86
Esther
So I think comedy courses are quite a good way of creating a unity with a group of people that you can then have that support and eases you into it.
00:44:35.68
alexei sayle
Ease you into it. Yeah.
00:44:40.45
Esther
But yeah, I hadn't planned to do stand-up whatsoever, but we did the course, and at the end of the course, we had to do a showcase at Backyard, and
00:44:47.54
alexei sayle
I know it.
00:44:48.44
Esther
which I did, ah which I drank about four gins before doing.
00:44:54.41
Talal K
Uh-huh.
00:44:54.71
Esther
um And I think the video is somewhere. I cannot find the video, but when I did it, I am talking much. slowly because I'm quite drunk and I need to get my words out clearly um and that was it the kind of the bug bit me a bit well a lot and then that was it I started I started rocking up at different open mics and then I think it was about a year and a half in I did my first Arabs Not Funny and that's where I met Talal you were hosting yeah rich mix
00:45:08.40
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:45:18.39
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:45:28.69
Talal K
Right, right, yeah.
00:45:31.10
alexei sayle
Your partner was fully supportive this. fully supportive of this
00:45:35.51
Esther
My partner, um I didn't tell him at first. So when I did sit him down to tell him, he was like, thank God, I genuinely thought you were having an affair.
00:45:46.25
Talal K
yeah
00:45:50.42
Esther
Because I'd been sneaking out once a week going, I'm going to meet my friend for coffee.
00:45:52.16
Talal K
It's always evenings.
00:45:54.77
alexei sayle
ah
00:45:55.06
Esther
And then I'd come back. How's your friend? Yeah, fine, fine. ah When I did my first stand up in the course, the adrenaline so this is and I still have horrific stage fright now but the adrenaline of even standing because being somebody I mean yes I was a teacher but it's not the same you're not having to kind of seek the approval and you know having two children and you know I'm still kind of in that weird post having a baby so everything's like still very saggy and uncomfortable and you feel quite self-conscious and so standing in front of a group of 30 people and telling jokes
00:46:15.57
Talal K
no
00:46:15.75
alexei sayle
No.
00:46:31.01
Esther
I left there and I literally, I just, I just puked all the way home.
00:46:34.12
alexei sayle
Man, wow.
00:46:34.59
Esther
Had to just keep getting off the tube and puking just because of the adrenaline of, oh my God, I did that. So I'd come in, you know, each week looking a little bit kind of like, and clearly looking very suspicious and edgy.
00:46:47.51
Esther
And my husband was like, and okay. And it took me about, I'd say about six weeks before I eventually was like, got something to to, and imagine of all the things he was expecting, he's sitting there going, oh my God.
00:46:56.92
Talal K
Confession.
00:46:58.43
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:47:00.09
Esther
I mean, firstly, what woman after giving birth five months ago is out shagging about? I don't know, but she would have to have, she would have to have absolute brilliant bounce back ability and ah energy levels.
00:47:05.65
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:47:13.54
Esther
But um yeah, but all the things he was expecting me to say, imagine your partner sits and goes, I've started doing standup comedy.
00:47:17.38
alexei sayle
yeah
00:47:20.18
Esther
It's like, so what?
00:47:21.88
Talal K
yeah ah
00:47:24.94
Esther
It must have just been like, I've got something to tell you, I've become a unicyclist.
00:47:33.11
Talal K
I'm joining the circus.
00:47:33.24
alexei sayle
ah
00:47:33.36
Esther
Very.
00:47:34.31
alexei sayle
It must um have changed your domestic routine, presumably.
00:47:39.64
Esther
Yeah, I mean, it did get to a point where it was like, because when you do the open mics, obviously you're not earning. And you have to stay there to the end of the night. And a lot of them are like, you've got to bring a friend.
00:47:50.43
Esther
And so my husband was like, you know, we've got two small babies. Fine. You know, do this a couple of times a week. You know, you want a hobby or whatever. But it's getting like, you know, three, four times a week. and you're getting in at like midnight. And then you're up in the night breastfeeding. And then you've got to go to work the next day. Like, this is ridiculous. And he's right. It was. And I was like, no, 100%. You're completely right.
00:48:10.86
Esther
But I'm not going to stop.
00:48:12.26
alexei sayle
Right.
00:48:14.50
Esther
And as soon as I started earning and as soon as it became clear that this was going to be my profession, we then just fell into a routine and and now we're all just kind of used to it and on board with it But it did take a bit of adjustment.
00:48:14.79
alexei sayle
ah
00:48:31.55
Esther
My God, it did.
00:48:31.65
alexei sayle
Yeah. why yeah
00:48:32.51
Esther
Yeah. And all the family were just a bit like, what? are you doing?
00:48:35.29
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:48:35.72
Talal K
Yeah.
00:48:36.13
Esther
ah you You're mine.
00:48:36.81
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:48:36.93
Esther
In fact, the only part, well, my dad really was my main supporter.
00:48:41.17
alexei sayle
Right.
00:48:41.25
Esther
Because if i if my husband was getting bit stressed out, my dad would be like, right, I'll take the kid. You go. Go. Go now. Just go.
00:48:46.50
alexei sayle
That's really fantastic.
00:48:46.79
Esther
go do it.
00:48:47.50
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:48:47.58
Esther
Yeah.
00:48:48.38
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:48:48.87
Talal K
Aren't Arab dads great, man?
00:48:49.10
Esther
Yeah.
00:48:50.06
Talal K
My dad always was like, go express yourself. I'm so proud of you. And I'm like, I'm talking to five drunk people in the pub. goes, that's fine. Go do it.
00:49:01.01
Talal K
You know, and it,
00:49:01.08
alexei sayle
And that is... sort
00:49:01.75
Talal K
and
00:49:01.71
Esther
It's so weird because so I get so much trolling. about how if you know how dare you like how could you support Gaza if you went there you'd be murdered you're a half British person they would slaughter you they would do this to you they would do that to you and it's like who do you think I live with like what do you think I've not been you think I've not been there like this perception it like the fact that
00:49:13.68
Talal K
Oh my God. Fuck off.
00:49:30.03
Esther
It's just marauding guys who are all just out like murdering women and and kind of like refusing to allow any kind of arts into into the community. who
00:49:40.01
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:49:40.64
Esther
It's so deranged.
00:49:41.02
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:43.38
Talal K
Yeah.
00:49:43.32
Esther
It's so deranged.
00:49:44.51
Talal K
They convince themselves of these things to justify what's what's happening out there.
00:49:47.62
Esther
And also, of course, there are issues in terms of like, you know, ah misogyny and homophobia. Of course. And there is here.
00:49:59.40
Talal K
Yeah, it's everywhere.
00:50:00.06
Esther
And also it's like, okay, well, during the 1950s, it wasn't exactly great for women and gays then, but I don't think it's okay to then go and blanket bomb Milton Keynes.
00:50:10.17
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:11.81
Talal K
Well,
00:50:11.88
Esther
don't think Milton Keynes was around in the 50s, was it?
00:50:14.16
alexei sayle
No, not in this term.
00:50:15.77
Talal K
um um
00:50:16.60
alexei sayle
Hmm.
00:50:16.82
Talal K
so when you ah for the you know your comedy, and I don't wanna be a derivative, but you know a lot of your comedy was about your motherhood, children, family, husband,
00:50:28.55
Esther
about
00:50:29.85
Talal K
ah hairy Arabness as well, a lot of that stuff. And you are, you know, how you finding incorporating today's conflict into and like the today's times into your comedy?
00:50:42.89
Talal K
How is that changing your comedy?
00:50:44.10
Esther
So, um because talking about things and also it's really well, it is quite hard to make it funny, but I think sometimes the surrealness of a situation. So I describe it So in my show, I'm talking about things like the fact that kids, you know, my kids are very much like preteen now.
00:51:02.12
Esther
And so they're in this kind of self-absorbed little bubble world, which is really normal for that age group. And I suddenly remember when I was that age. And my dad would be dealing with, you know, situations back home. But you it just didn't register.
00:51:16.26
Esther
It didn't penetrate because your parents are just these heroes, aren't they? It's like, well, yeah, but they're not affected by things. They're not real people.
00:51:23.35
alexei sayle
right.
00:51:23.45
Esther
They're just put on this planet to protect us, which they will. And they don't have feelings. But then you grow up. And now this situation is happening. And now I've got these... kids who are of a similar age and I'm now like can you just give me a second while I process this and they're just like oh my god
00:51:41.85
alexei sayle
but
00:51:42.26
Esther
Where's my chicken nuggets? And you're just like, why don't you get it? what so it's that kind of scenario where you're just like, why can't you see what's going on?
00:51:46.76
alexei sayle
ah
00:51:50.14
Esther
But they can't and they're kids and they shouldn't have to
00:51:52.49
alexei sayle
Yeah, no, I guess.
00:51:53.48
Esther
and Also talking about um i was I've done a couple of marathons now and I wanted to my first marathon that I signed up for was and before everything had kicked off. And I've done ah lot of fundraising for Medical Aid Palestine. But because it was my first marathon, I really wanted.
00:52:11.93
Esther
to run for a charity that my children chose. I thought that'd be a really lovely way of bonding. um And then my my daughter chose sloths.
00:52:23.11
Esther
But then I had, but then, you know, a year later, it had all kicked off and I'm now having to deal with the family going, you're fucking running the marathon.
00:52:23.23
alexei sayle
Well, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:35.07
Esther
for sloths whilst the Middle East burns and so you're then like in this in this kind and then they're like okay so now I have to run another marathon because I've got now raise money so I'm now having to run a thousand marathons because I've got to do the right thing so it's these kind of like ludicrous situations or like
00:52:51.18
alexei sayle
You run the marison the marathon for sloths, you run it really, really slowly.
00:52:54.71
Esther
yeah really slowly i know i was like yeah
00:52:56.07
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:52:56.45
Talal K
Great. Good one.
00:52:57.47
alexei sayle
Just in the trees, yeah. Somebody else doesn't like that.
00:53:00.75
Esther
And they are such a sweet animal and so adorable, but just maybe not the most pressing thing but at that time.
00:53:03.21
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:53:07.65
alexei sayle
No. Perhaps not, no.
00:53:09.18
Esther
um And also just like kind of, you know, everyday scenarios where people just want to talk to you about it really casually and they don't realise, like, you know... Talal when we did that fundraising gig and it was so lovely because we could all just be really open about how we're feeling but in other scenarios you're just rocking up to work or school pickup and all the rest of it and you're just doing these mundane everyday things and then somebody might just casually be like it's all the news is the family all right and you're just like how do you react to that oh yeah what they're like it's just like it's this it's this surrealness so um
00:53:35.44
Talal K
no
00:53:37.54
alexei sayle
Yeah. They're like getting themselves bombed by the fucking Israelis. Yeah.
00:53:45.19
Esther
So it's, yeah, so it's, it the the my stand-up show does talk a lot about family life, but also now adding this extra layer of like, well, what do you do when you're navigating these two worlds?
00:53:52.24
alexei sayle
Right.
00:53:55.51
Esther
Also, what you do when you're trying to get your kids ready for school and they're having a meltdown? And then I've got a dad who's there in his kefir going, and today is the day when they decide.
00:54:07.11
Esther
And you're just like, I can't, I don't know how to navigate this. I've literally got one having a meltdown because they can't find their freaking...
00:54:10.23
Talal K
yeah
00:54:14.15
Esther
Paw Patrol pencil case and the other one is screaming in my ear about Keir Starmer's policies and it's just it's just a colliding of two worlds because one doesn't neither one recognises how big the other one's world is to them and very spectrumy as well so it's all very kind of like so yeah it's it's so I would say it's a very um it's a very cathartic hour
00:54:25.77
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:54:28.27
Talal K
Absolutely, yeah.
00:54:34.43
alexei sayle
But it's, yes, well, is it's also... it's also
00:54:43.30
alexei sayle
No good, well, no good, well good, because it's, yeah, it's, I mean, it's, it's it's a I mean, that's one of the weird things.
00:54:43.29
Esther
It's been quite cathartic.
00:54:52.23
alexei sayle
I mean, you know, yeah, in a sense, as an artist, times of, you know, terrible suffering for the world, they're also the time when, as a response to that, you are, you know,
00:55:05.06
alexei sayle
ah you're most fertile aren't you you know the greatest modernist the greatest painting of the 20th century is a response to the carpet bombing of civilians which is Picasso's Guernica but it's I think you have mixed feelings don't you about that how I don't know i ask i'm talking about myself I suppose that that it's a kind of gift, this catastrophe, but it's also, and we profit from it, but it's also, we have to acknowledge, you know, it's, you feel weird about that, you know.
00:55:33.01
Esther
I do i do ah do find as well, and I'm sure Talal will be able recognise this, I think countries where there is so much chaos,
00:55:45.66
Esther
it creates an amazing sense of humour.
00:55:49.62
Talal K
Mm-hmm.
00:55:49.64
alexei sayle
Right.
00:55:49.95
Esther
And I think Arabs have a really, really, really good sense of humour.
00:55:52.49
alexei sayle
Yes.
00:55:53.02
Talal K
Mm-hmm.
00:55:55.19
alexei sayle
All right.
00:55:56.35
Esther
And I don't often see members of my family cry. I'll see them annoyed. I'll see them shout. I'll see them scream. um But also they're able to really laugh at the absolute hardest of times.
00:56:13.79
alexei sayle
right
00:56:14.01
Esther
And it there were, you know, there was a time when me and my
00:56:15.06
Talal K
Sorry.
00:56:17.64
Esther
um cousin on the phone, it was I think it was around November when Lebanon was being hit quite badly. And we rang each other and she just went, hi how are you? And I just went, yeah, how are you? And then we both just started laughing. But we laughed probably for about 10 minutes. I couldn't breathe.
00:56:34.50
alexei sayle
Wow.
00:56:35.08
Esther
And she was just like.
00:56:38.58
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:56:38.66
Esther
You know, what else?
00:56:39.37
alexei sayle
yeah
00:56:39.50
Talal K
Stay
00:56:39.46
Esther
What else can you do? And it's just like it's it's a way. So I do think Arabs have got a particular I think Egyptians actually have probably got some of the best sense of humour.
00:56:48.00
alexei sayle
Really? i thought Yeah.
00:56:48.36
Esther
I think Egyptians are really funny. They're really, really funny.
00:56:50.70
Talal K
ah um
00:56:51.01
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:56:52.47
Esther
But I remember when I was in Lebanon, just like the amount of piss taking. It's a real way of showing affection.
00:56:58.83
alexei sayle
Right.
00:56:59.30
Esther
Like my dad would, I see like my mate's dad's who'd be like on their wedding day, they'd be like, I've watched my little princess. She's so beautiful. And she's all the rest of it. And my dad's way of showing affection is just to whack me around the head and go, you know what?
00:57:11.72
Esther
And you're just like, Oh, it's a kiss. What's that Billie Holiday song?
00:57:14.64
alexei sayle
You love me.
00:57:16.75
Talal K
I think also the the poorer the Arab is, the funnier they are, or the poorer, lower class they come from.
00:57:20.60
Esther
Yeah.
00:57:23.23
Talal K
Because, you know, you go into the Gulf as you travel eastwards and they get richer and richer.
00:57:26.87
alexei sayle
yeah, those guys.
00:57:28.98
Talal K
ah They are just sour, serious, moody little.
00:57:29.03
alexei sayle
Those guys are funny.
00:57:31.27
Esther
Oh that's so true.
00:57:32.10
Talal K
Yes.
00:57:33.13
Esther
Mind I guess that's true of working class here as well. The kind of like club comedy really emanated from working class people, that's where from.
00:57:36.50
Talal K
Yes.
00:57:37.26
alexei sayle
Yeah.
00:57:40.67
alexei sayle
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:57:42.07
Esther
Yeah, and
00:57:43.99
Talal K
But the volume of lower classes in in the Arab world, like everyone is on the fucking same level.
00:57:50.13
Esther
yeah
00:57:50.48
Talal K
ah And they are they are hilarious.
00:57:52.10
Esther
yeah
00:57:53.45
Talal K
And there's so much toilet humor, so much body parts and toilet humor.
00:57:56.54
alexei sayle
Yes, rosim was seen with my Palestinian friends, so I could never kind of get on board with that. um you ah you you You were talk asking me about cancel culture. I didn't quite understand the question, Eddie.
00:58:07.99
alexei sayle
I am circling back.
00:58:08.58
Esther
I don't know what I was really asking.
00:58:09.82
alexei sayle
I am a professional.
00:58:10.42
Esther
I think it's because I was maybe just, I just saw, I only caught up to date today. Somebody said to me about the Andrew Lawrence joke about Liverpool.
00:58:20.37
alexei sayle
Yes.
00:58:20.35
Esther
And I was like, well, what's going on here? Are we now saying things to get cancelled to become more popular? or is it that, like, what's going on here with comedy now? Because I don't understand. It feels like we're in the weird parallel of saying things that meet an echo chamber, but maybe don't necessarily need Because I was, who was I watching? I think it was like Dave Chappelle.
00:58:41.82
Esther
And I remember his older specials would be like, joke joke joke joke joke joke, joke, joke, joke. But now it feels like it's more of a monologue.
00:58:47.69
alexei sayle
yeah
00:58:47.87
Esther
And then it's like, so we now say things to annoy or to endorse. And if anything, I don't know. i don't know what my question is.
00:58:57.93
alexei sayle
yeah no it's well it's yeah no but i don't think there is any particularly simple answer really i mean i mean something like dave chapelle think you're
00:58:58.72
Esther
I'm just finding it all a bit strange.
00:59:12.38
alexei sayle
Well, I mean, i always say, and I don't, we've we've talked about him before. We've talked about Jerry Sadowitz before, and I don't know whether he can function in today's climate, but there was a thing where Jerry Sadowitz used to, if you ever saw him, used to do the most repulsive kind of humor. I mean, the famous one is, you know, Nelson Mandela, what a cunt, he'll end up low £10 and you never see him again.
00:59:34.88
alexei sayle
um And that worked in the 1950s, whatever. But um ah so ah but because Jerry was coming from such a place, you could see that this was a profoundly damaged person.
00:59:49.83
alexei sayle
And so he that he was there was ah
00:59:50.68
Esther
Yeah.
00:59:53.51
alexei sayle
you could see that the hate was was an act it know was not really what he believed, but it was a persona,
00:59:58.58
Esther
yeah
00:59:59.14
alexei sayle
But it was also, it was, it it was, ah there was a commentary on the on and on how damaged he was and the catharsis of saying unsayable things to a degree, I think.
01:00:11.06
alexei sayle
I mean, with somebody like Andrew Lawrence, it's just a fucking nasty person making a nasty fucking joke, really, isn't it? It's no, there's no subtlety there. There's no, um and I i mean, um I tend to be free speech libertarian, really. I think that I don't agree with that, that,
01:00:28.45
alexei sayle
I remember Chomsky signed a letter, which was mostly right-wing people then, people like Rushdie and writers.
01:00:28.83
Esther
and think, I think,
01:00:42.17
alexei sayle
But just demanding free speech really. And it was criticized by a lot of the left. But I think by and large people should be allowed to say you know and anything, as long as it doesn't break the law.
01:00:54.07
Talal K
Oh, that's like the Rowan Atkinson and John Cleese opinion as well, yeah.
01:00:57.76
alexei sayle
Yeah, I tend to go along with that. although and So I think that sometimes we can, on the left, be overly censorious. This might get me into terrible trouble.
01:01:09.05
alexei sayle
But i mean, i I think I am a libertarian to a degree. on that But I mean, Andrew Lawrence just a fucking stupid arsehole. And if he thought that he was going to get away with that, I mean, do you think he wanted the controversy?
01:01:18.59
Esther
I don't think he did think that though, did he?
01:01:21.90
alexei sayle
No.
01:01:22.03
Esther
i don't know I don't know him. i don't know anything about it.
01:01:23.56
alexei sayle
No.
01:01:24.03
Esther
but I just think, is it and are we now in a place where it's like, it the more the more we've pushed and censored, it's created more people who now want to outrage.
01:01:37.71
Esther
So have we...
01:01:37.81
alexei sayle
I think that that's certainly true. Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:40.05
Esther
Yeah.
01:01:41.08
alexei sayle
Yeah.
01:01:41.09
Talal K
That's definitely like an alt-right thing is like, yeah, get angry.
01:01:41.45
Esther
Yeah.
01:01:44.60
Talal K
You know, the the whole legalized comedy kind of thing is like, yeah, you cuck, you snowflake sensitive cucks, get angry, come on. And I'm going to say, and that's like, and they're like almost doing it as a political point.
01:01:53.52
Esther
yeah
01:01:59.37
Talal K
Whereas coming back to fucking Jimmy Carr, that was his whole shtick 10, 15 years ago was saying the unsayable and just double downing that it's like,
01:02:10.39
Talal K
They're jokes. Don't get offended. They're just jokes. They're just jokes.
01:02:14.23
Esther
yeah
01:02:14.34
Talal K
And I don't think he was being political by doing that stuff. But nowadays, I think a lot of comics do want to ruffle feathers of the soft, snowflakey, lefty, wokey, lib.
01:02:25.94
alexei sayle
It doesn't really include the mass of Liverpool fans necessarily. But...
01:02:30.34
Talal K
No, but
01:02:31.05
alexei sayle
a Yeah, no, I mean, I've never, I don't really quite know what I think, and I've always kind of tried to stay out of that debate, really, so thank you for, yeah.
01:02:38.82
Esther
Yeah, no, i don't really yeah I don't really know. I think it's just because it literally, just before I picked up the phone, and someone had just sent me a link and I was like, oh, okay, all right.
01:02:44.92
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just shit on every level, that kind of gag, badly done.
01:02:50.28
Talal K
Well, and Alexi, you were briefly cancelled in Liverpool. We we mentioned it a few episodes ago.
01:02:53.39
alexei sayle
I was, i was, yes, we talked about the humiliation of,
01:02:58.37
Talal K
and And he said there is no culture there.
01:02:58.37
Esther
Why were you cancelled in Liverpool?
01:03:00.08
alexei sayle
um ah because so i i well I made some fatuous remarks about Liverpool ahead of the capital of culture. And ah but and that was right i mean I was actually you know i just saying they had a special...
01:03:13.99
alexei sayle
The Liverpool Echo local paper on the Saturday published a special supplement all about... Luckily it noticed about my remarks, really, in print.
01:03:25.35
Talal K
But then you there is also redemption because you went up there and did an apology tour and...
01:03:29.01
alexei sayle
I was wrong. Yeah, I genuinely, ah it was a learning experience for me. I was genuinely humbling and I learned a lot from it.
01:03:36.65
Esther
I think as well sometimes we can tell the difference I think that's the thing sometimes isn't it it's like you can tell the difference it's almost like when you hear somebody say something racist or when you hear your nan say something
01:03:46.89
alexei sayle
Yeah.
01:03:50.01
Esther
um which isn't considered PC now, but you know it comes from no malice.
01:03:52.94
alexei sayle
Yeah.
01:03:54.01
Esther
It's like, well, that's just a generational thing where they don't know that that language isn't acceptable, you know, or you wouldn't refer to somebody as that, even though you're doing it in a nice, polite way.
01:03:58.98
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:04.04
alexei sayle
No, that's...
01:04:04.13
Esther
And you see it, you know, um but there's a difference between that and somebody who's like, oh, you fucking X, and Z. So...
01:04:11.02
alexei sayle
Well, i was but i mean I was actually being a prick, but I think the people of Liverpool realised that my contrition was real, which it was. you know I wasn't putting it on. I wasn't being contrite to save my skin, but just because I...
01:04:27.35
alexei sayle
I did feel terrible, really, because I had been a prick, you know. So um it was really, it was a really useful experience for me in that sense.
01:04:34.91
Esther
but you've been back to Liverpool since
01:04:36.78
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm, you know, i mean, they, the you the law you know, Jesus said, you know, something about, you know, the sinner, you know, I can't remember this precise quote, but, you know, the sinner is...
01:04:46.42
Esther
it's got such a gorgeous theatre for comment what's that theatre that we did to Lau is it the Theatre Royal is that what it's called
01:04:52.49
alexei sayle
We're all caught.
01:04:52.80
Talal K
possibly that was a fun day that's the only time i've been to uh livy pu
01:04:53.13
alexei sayle
We're all caught.
01:04:59.62
Esther
I do like Liverpool. I do like Liverpool.
01:05:01.36
alexei sayle
Oh, yeah, I did like, I mean, my last stand-up gigs were a five-night sold-out run in in Liverpool before COVID, and that's...
01:05:09.49
Esther
So where were you, Alexi, when you did your...
01:05:12.23
alexei sayle
At five nights, at a place called the Epstein, Epstein, the Epstein Theatre, which closed but is now reopened.
01:05:13.56
Esther
Yeah.
01:05:19.42
Esther
Ah.
01:05:20.53
alexei sayle
It's beautiful room. It's about... think it holds about 500. Lovely. Yeah. Yeah. lovely
01:05:25.26
Esther
Nice. Nice.
01:05:27.09
alexei sayle
yeah
01:05:27.84
Esther
Yeah, they had some nice space. I think it was like the Arab, the Liverpudlian Arab Festival we were up there for.
01:05:32.70
alexei sayle
I think i'm ah I was a sponsor of that, but but now they haven't been in touch for about 15 years.
01:05:36.01
Esther
ah really?
01:05:38.59
Esther
Yeah, i was ah
01:05:39.45
alexei sayle
All
01:05:39.81
Esther
I was offered to be part of a Debka dancing class and I was like, yep, no.
01:05:42.95
alexei sayle
right.
01:05:45.41
Esther
I haven't got the spring in my step for that.
01:05:48.47
alexei sayle
Well.
01:05:48.70
Talal K
Yeah, we were in the Royal court in Liverpool.
01:05:51.02
alexei sayle
Well, come on, yeah.
01:05:52.14
Talal K
ah Look, we're going to say goodbye in a minute, um but wait, wait, wait, wait.
01:05:53.63
alexei sayle
Yeah, well, just tell us about your tour, where you're playing.
01:05:53.72
Esther
Okay.
01:05:56.10
alexei sayle
What?
01:05:56.40
Talal K
I'll ask her that in a sec.
01:05:56.92
alexei sayle
Who? What?
01:05:57.78
Talal K
But Esther, when we do say goodbye at the end, please don't close.
01:05:58.32
alexei sayle
Well.
01:06:02.12
Talal K
Don't log out yet. We need to let everything upload before you leave the actual call. We're doing a performative goodbye for the podcast.
01:06:08.28
Esther
Okay.
01:06:09.00
Talal K
Understood?
01:06:09.03
alexei sayle
All right.
01:06:09.86
Talal K
So yeah, go ahead, Lexi.
01:06:10.11
Esther
Yeah.
01:06:10.82
alexei sayle
So Esther, ah tell us where your tour is going and where people can buy tickets.
01:06:15.13
Esther
I've got 17 different locations up and down the country. So ah doing ah from Glasgow all the way down to... ah don't know where anywhere is like Hampshire.
01:06:28.97
Talal K
you
01:06:29.75
Esther
I literally have no concept of geography. I just get trains to places and I'm like, where am I? Ken? And they're like, no, you're in Wales. ah Terrible, terrible geography. It's probably, probably the result of being ah brought up by two people who neither wanted to believe that they were in the situation they're in.
01:06:50.37
Esther
So um
01:06:50.58
Talal K
I'm going to help you out here. Here we go. Slag bomb. ah Starting in September, I'm going to run you going to Norwich, London, Farnham, Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield, Southend.
01:06:53.90
Esther
slag bomb.
01:07:02.38
Talal K
And then in October, Exeter, Chester, Edinburgh, Swindon, Bristol, November. You're going to Oxford, Leeds, Glasgow, Fabersham, Winchester, Leicester, Newcastle.
01:07:13.77
Talal K
And then in December, Haven't, the Spring Arts Festival, ah January brought Brighton, and then in February, on my birthday, you're gonna be in Guildford, and then Crawley.
01:07:17.02
Esther
Yeah, haven't, where's haven't?
01:07:17.80
alexei sayle
Hampshire, yeah. Hampshire.
01:07:23.88
alexei sayle
Right. Right.
01:07:28.38
Talal K
That's the Slag Bomb Tour. Really nice artwork, actually. a Great poster. That's fucking sick.
01:07:34.38
Esther
Thanks.
01:07:36.55
Talal K
drinking a WKD.
01:07:36.73
alexei sayle
Well, thank you. um Well, thank you for coming on the podcast. It was fascinating to talk to you. I think we could have. but let We'd better let you go, really. But there's lots more to unpack.
01:07:46.89
Talal K
estaminito.co.uk oh thank you
01:07:46.92
Esther
Well, I can just chat for hours.
01:07:48.83
alexei sayle
Yeah.
01:07:50.14
Esther
Thanks so much for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure.
01:07:52.87
alexei sayle
Yeah, no, it's been lovely. We really enjoyed it.
01:07:56.24
Esther
I think we could safely say we ate and left no crumbs.
01:08:01.37
alexei sayle
Which is not a cruel remark about our weight or a quote from Marks.
01:08:06.90
Talal K
ah ah it's a whole new thing whole new world you're part of now Lex slaking
01:08:11.77
Esther
but Yes.
01:08:15.07
alexei sayle
we We pongoed and we pogoed and left no dents.
01:08:15.92
Talal K
Slay.
01:08:25.62
alexei sayle
We vomited and left no...
01:08:26.03
Talal K
I'm gonna put a link to your tour dates in the description of this podcast, all right?
01:08:28.68
Esther
Ah, thank you so much.
01:08:32.57
alexei sayle
Thank you. Cheers. Thank you, There we go.
01:08:37.10
Esther
Ah, thanks for having me, guys.
01:08:38.59
Talal K
I'm waiting for Alexei's sign off, he's not said it yet.
01:08:42.56
alexei sayle
Oh, bye-bye.
01:08:43.55
Talal K
There we go.
01:08:44.34
alexei sayle
Sorry, have a catchphrase. Bye-bye.
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