0:03: Hello and welcome to revolutionise your love life.
0:07: Do you want to know more about love relationships?
0:10: What makes them work?
0:11: How to create the one of your best dreams?
0:14: Do you want to be in a really healthy, juicy love relationship?
0:19: In these podcasts, we will give ideas and practical advice to light your way.
0:23: Whether you're looking for a love partner, already in a relationship.
0:28: You wish could be better, or leaving one that has run its course, there will be something to inspire, empower, and support you.
0:36: revolutionise your love life is a fortnightly podcast where you will access the knowledge and wisdom of love experts and relationship coaches from across the world to help you find true fulfilment in love.
0:50: I am your host, Heather Garbutt.
0:53: Welcome.
0:55: Hello everybody.
0:56: I'm here today with Colette Bain.
0:59: She's a a family solicitor and a personal friend of mine.
1:03: Her energy is absolutely lovely and I'm sure you're going to enjoy hearing what she's got to say.
1:10: Let me tell you a little bit about her.
1:12: She's a senior associate in the family team at Knights.
1:19: And she is known for her discreet premium service.
1:24: She's very strategic.
1:27: , she advises on divorce and financial settlements, and she's particularly focused on the high net network cases.
1:36: She's focused on child arrangements and wealth protection through both pre and post-nuptial agreements.
1:44: She's got a special expertise in surrogacy and modern family formulation.
1:50: You can see why I love her, can't you?
1:54: Her clients value her responsiveness, her emotional intelligence and ability to navigate complex and high stakes situations with both clarity and exceptional care.
2:08: She's working nationally as part of Knights, which is a leading family law team, and she delivers bespoke, results-focused advice tailored to each client's unique needs.
2:22: Welcome, Colette.
2:24: Thank you, Heather.
2:25: Thank you so much for having me.
2:27: Oh, it's absolutely lovely.
2:29: I, I'm just loving what we're going to talk about because it's not your usual, you know, wham bam divorce, thank you.
2:36: This is about creating something that's really in harmony with my core beliefs about conscious uncoupling and making things good going forwards.
2:46: , and your heart is really in that, I know.
2:49: So, yeah.
2:51: So I'm gonna ask you about your top tips in preparation for divorce.
2:56: What is your number one?
2:58: Oh, absolute number one has got to be find your tribe, it really has to be that.
3:03: , it's so important for people to surround themselves with the right people, , like-minded people, people who've got their best interests at heart, who are going to help them in the way that they need, not in the way that the friend or family member thinks they need.
3:20: , it's absolutely crucial that they've got those people around them.
3:25: And it's also really important for people to have their experts around them as well.
3:30: , and that's not just lawyers, , we are very much here to help.
3:34: , but there's obviously then somebody like you doing your conscious and coupling work, which is absolutely brilliant.
3:39: And then obviously divorce coaches and people like that to sort of help with the process focused stuff, , but perhaps not taking it to the formal level yet of instructing a solicitor that can be a bit daunting, and it may just need a bit of ramping up to get to that point.
3:56: And that's entirely fair.
3:57: It can be a big step, but we are friendly, I promise.
4:01: Oh yeah.
4:02: You are lovely.
4:02: You were lovely, and I think you're so right.
4:05: , you know, you don't necessarily want to be surrounded by people who are gonna take you into battle straight off.
4:12: Yeah, there's a time and a place, definitely for that, yeah, yeah, I agree.
4:17: If you need that ultimately, that's where you have to go.
4:19: But if you can do things cooperatively and you choose the people to support you, who are Fair-minded and steady emotionally.
4:30: They're not gonna say she's an absolute cow.
4:32: Take her to the cleaners.
4:34: Take her to the cleaners always, yeah, yeah.
4:37: You want somebody who, who's looking with you at what the best outcome is and who's emotionally mature enough to support you to get that.
4:46: So that can be for me, cooperating with your ex over children.
4:51: You know, can be making sure you've both got enough finances to have 2 homes and one family.
4:57: Yeah, yeah.
4:59: Or to separate as well as you can if you're in a toxic relationship that safeguards everybody.
5:06: So, yeah, yeah.
5:09: And I'm, I'm interested as well, you know, you're talking about, , when we spoke before about the, the, the gaps that are going to be there.
5:19: Mm.
5:19: Mm.
5:20: Yeah, absolutely.
5:21: I mean, people often realise on separation, much as they might hate realising it, their ex actually did bring things to the table, sometimes literally, if they were the one doing all the cooking, , in the evening, for instance, if that was their hobby or it's just the way your life's panned out.
5:38: , people suddenly realise I actually don't have a clue what I'm doing, so do you need cooking lessons?
5:43: Do you need a nutritionist?
5:44: Do you not even know what what should be on your plate at any given point and things like that.
5:48: And there's also, you know, if your ex ran the finances, whether that was by agreement or because there was some element of control, do you now need to get familiar with your finances in a way that you weren't previously, , such that you need the help of a financial adviser to do that?
6:02: There's also just generally, it can be quite an admin heavy time, whether that's because you're suddenly running a household.
6:08: As a solo person that you weren't ready to do, or because you've got all this other stuff to do with the separation that you're now suddenly trying to pick up, do you need somebody like a virtual assistant or a personal assistant to sort of pick up the slack where you're perhaps a bit overwhelmed with your inbox and things like that?
6:24: So absolutely adding them into your tribe, they're all perfectly valid and wonderful additions, , and there's no shame in asking for that kind of help.
6:31: It's exactly what all these lovely people are here for.
6:34: Yeah, I completely agree with you.
6:36: And things like looking after the children or looking after the dogs while you, you deal with stuff, you know.
6:43: Somebody to do your garden, have a cleaner, whatever it takes for you to just be at ease.
6:49: Yes.
6:50: Yeah.
6:50: Absolutely, looking after yourself, so you can bring the best version of yourself to everything that's got to come in the next few weeks and months.
7:00: That that was first tip capital number one sort of thing.
7:05: What else would you suggest?
7:08: Feeding into that in many ways with adding the experts to your tribe, and this is not a money spinning tip on my part, but it's to get in there early with the advice and with the support that you need, particularly if it's a divorce or there's a legal element to it, for instance, a separation with children or a separation where there's a property that you need to be sorting out.
7:30: That a lot of my work can often involve a sort of tidying up process because people have tried to do it themselves and then I'm unpicking something that's potentially gone very wrong.
7:40: So getting that advice early, whether it's just a bit of a steer in the right direction and then you can do it yourself, or whether it's hands on, let's get this sorted.
7:49: The earlier you do that, the sooner you can start making smarter, sensible decisions that we're probably not gonna have to undo later, which is just extra headache.
7:58: So absolutely getting that upfront.
8:01: Absolutely, and I, I see this a lot with my conscious uncoupling clients.
8:06: They'll come with a sort of broad brush view of what they think they're entitled to or what the law is and what the rules around children and finance are.
8:18: And when they actually do go and get solicitor advice, they realised they were completely wrong and they were barking up the wrong tree.
8:25: And often, , creating unnecessary friction because of that, particularly if them and their partner have different views on that, and nobody's ever checked it out.
8:38: You don't need all that before you even start.
8:41: No, no, absolutely.
8:43: And there's, you know, there's always that, that friend who's been divorced, or my friend down the pub who is about my least favourite person because they've always got the worst advice.
8:51: It's very much their potentially jaded view or their generic view of what should or could be happening.
8:58: The client then turns up saying, well, my friend said this, and you think, yes, that's, that's great.
9:03: I'm glad they're there to support you, but the tailored advice that suits you better, it may be a better outcome than their friend was saying, but it may also be a more practical, sensible, calm approach than that.
9:13: was saying and sort of getting them back down to that level can take quite a bit of work if somebody's taught them up.
9:19: So getting the advice early on and getting your strategy, even just one that you can just process, even if you're not going to act on it, is massively important to then dealing with the next steps in the best way possible.
9:29: Yeah.
9:30: What I'm really loving is the the through line here of keeping the drama low.
9:35: 100%.
9:37: 100%.
9:38: Yes, yeah, I really agree.
9:39: And a lot of that is about not only who's in your tribe from friends and family perspective and sort of letting them know what you need.
9:46: Do you need the drama?
9:47: Would you, would you enjoy a bit of like lightheartedness about it and almost an entertainment value to distract you from the reality, or do you just need calmness?
9:57: Do you need space?
9:58: Do you need chill while you process everything from them?
10:01: And then there's also that then feeds into the sort of more professional work that might need to be done potentially by your solicitor.
10:08: There there can be solicitor-client relationships where it is very dramatic and everything's turned up to 100 degrees straight out the gate, but half the time, at least, that's not what's necessary and it's not what's best for the case in question.
10:21: So then making sure you find a solicitor that you like, ideally, it is possible.
10:26: To like your solicitor, , because you're possibly going to be working with them for quite a long time.
10:31: And so to be able to have a bit of a rapport with them, , is actually really healthy for you going forward.
10:37: , but then also making sure you've got somebody who's going to turn up the drama at the right time.
10:41: , you don't want somebody who's just going to throw grenades randomly for absolutely no reason.
10:47: , what you do need is somebody who's going to give you a calm strategy, but with a good throwing arm, just in case you need it.
10:53: So that's absolutely key.
10:55: Sorry, yes.
10:56: At who can be firm when it's needed, but not just turn the temperature up.
11:00: Yeah.
11:01: And also not get into that, , us and them, because that's, that's the quickest way to create drama, to create pain.
11:10: And, you know, some of my other podcasts have been looking at what happens to your brain in breakup.
11:15: Absolutely fascinating podcast, I love that episode, and yes, I agree it has such an impact and having those right people with you to sort of maybe fill the gaps where your brain's just not there yet, is, is so important to getting it right.
11:28: Yeah.
11:29: And from a therapist's point of view, so you stay out of the the trauma, the trauma drama triangle.
11:35: Which is, you know, victim, persecutor and rescuer.
11:39: If you're in any of those roles, then you're likely to be acting from your very young self, your very immature emotionally undeveloped self, and that you don't want that.
11:52: In the divorce procedures at all if you can possibly help it.
11:56: No, that's a one way ticket to what we call post divorce remorse, where somebody potentially has been in that mindset and has made decisions with that, whether with or without a solicitor, obviously we still have to act on instructions.
12:09: And sometimes if somebody's in that position, you're really fighting.
12:13: say no, seriously, that's not, that's not what you should be agreeing to.
12:16: It's against my advice.
12:18: Most of the time they say, yeah, OK, fair point.
12:20: They they they kind of get themselves past that stage, but there are some people who will still make decisions in that mindset.
12:26: So then working with all these other experts who bring the best version of themselves out, absolutely the things to be doing.
12:34: Yeah.
12:34: And for me, you know, finding a solicitor that you like, you that you mentioned a moment ago is really key, because this is going to be.
12:43: It's like finding a therapist, you know, it's somebody you need to have rapport with, somebody you can trust to have your best interests at heart.
12:52: , somebody that you know can understand you and contain you as well as doing all the professional things.
12:58: To be honest, I don't know how you managed to perform all of those roles, but you do seem to.
13:04: I can't juggle in real life, but I can juggle those, that's perfectly fine, yeah.
13:09: So tell me all about what somebody can expect, what the, the role that you take is, so that that's clear.
13:16: Yeah, absolutely.
13:17: I I think it's interesting that you said there is a sort of therapeutic side to it for me and that there absolutely is because I very much do need to know at that early information gathering stage where my clients are at, what their priorities are, what their emotional state is, because there are some clients who really are just so excited.
13:36: for this divorce to go through.
13:37: They're literally planning a party or a holiday to celebrate it when it comes through.
13:42: They're so excited.
13:43: And there are other clients who just think, I do not want to be in this situation.
13:47: I never thought I'd be divorced.
13:48: I don't necessarily agree with divorce, some of them say, but they're having to go through it because their ex is driving it forward.
13:56: So there is an element of understanding where they're at, because some clients you can sort of say a bit of a cheeky congratulations when that order comes through, and you'll know they'll take it in good humour, they'll probably come back and say, oh my gosh, thank you so much.
14:08: I'm so thrilled almost, with with the outcome and the fact that they're now divorced, and others, it's, oh yeah, great, thanks, because they just didn't.
14:17: want to be there, but you can't say congratulations to those people because it's just not where they're at, and it would be really tactless, obviously to start saying, , congratulations, you're gonna nail the next chapter in your life.
14:29: They're just not there yet.
14:31: And it's absolutely crucial that I know that.
14:32: And I do sometimes get clients saying, oh, I'm so sorry, it's just a stream of consciousness.
14:37: I've just waffled at you for 20 minutes.
14:40: And I always tell them, please do not apologise and it's absolutely not because I'm watching the clock going, I'm watching the clock with one eye because I'm thinking, is everything OK?
14:49: Do you need to get to your next appointment?
14:50: But the main thing is I've got to understand where they are at, because I can adjust my tone of voice, the way I write to them.
14:59: You know, congratulations or not, all that kind of thing is absolutely crucial.
15:03: I know that kind of thing.
15:04: So understanding our role in the sense that yes, we're there for the therapeutic stuff, we aren't a therapist though.
15:11: So then it's striking a balance between, yes, I need to know where you're at, but at the same time there are other people and other resources out there to help you with that.
15:19: So adding those people to your tribe, therapists, conscious uncoupling coaches, all those kinds of people are right there ready to help you and to be wonderful at doing that.
15:28: There's also sort of the more self-help stuff, so journaling, self-care, therapy, counselling, all that package of stuff works alongside my role, and then you've got the neat little package of emotional and process based working together to get you through the other side of this.
15:46: That feels really coherent to me.
15:49: , and I think it's unreasonable to expect you to be a therapist as well.
15:54: , because you need your head clear to be taking the actions and finding the through line to get the divorce that the person really wants, and having the professionals who can really just take care of all of the other side of things, where they can go and give their stream of consciousness and have it understood and held and help them work through it, you know, to understand where things have come from, to see how they got to this place in the first place, you know, from my position.
16:22: Yes, so they can develop new relationship skills for the next time they have a relationship, that's, that's where I go.
16:29: Yes, yeah, absolutely.
16:31: I don't mind stream of consciousness because there are often gems in there, whether it's little bits of information, somebody might have forgotten to tell me, or whether it's just generally understanding where they're at, but I would almost encourage clients to then forward that on to their support network, particularly the experts around them, so that they can, as you said, they just bring their expertise to the table and help them through it from an emotional perspective.
16:54: Double use.
16:55: Yeah, keeps equilibrium.
16:57: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:00: So we talked before a little bit about smart targets.
17:04: Can you tell me lots about that, because that seems such a thing for me, such an exciting thing.
17:10: So when we talked about this podcast before, you mentioned something called smart targets, which I find really exciting.
17:19: Yeah, absolutely.
17:20: Well, as a solicitor, I love smart targets because you've just got to prioritise so quickly, but it's absolutely crucial for clients as well and anybody going through divorce or separation to know that they exist and to either have them in place that they've put in themselves or get some help in doing so.
17:40: , it can be such an overwhelming experience.
17:43: You know, separation is first and foremost an emotional process.
17:47: And the admin very much does take 2nd place, but it still does need to be done at the end of the day, , and.
17:54: It can very quickly get overwhelming and if there's a lot to be talking about, if you're, you know, really opposed, if it's really hostile, which can happen despite best efforts not to, , it can take up a lot of your brain space and a lot of your emotional bandwidth.
18:10: So alongside sort of self-care stuff that we've been talking about and which we referenced earlier, there is also an element of making sure you've got these targets in place to give you some clarity.
18:20: So working with your experts, often your financial advisor or your legal advisor to say, right, this needs doing by this date, where are you at, what's going on?
18:30: Can we get our ducks in a row?
18:32: And getting those ducks in a row can bring such clarity and it can also, most importantly bring calm to a brain that was otherwise just running around like a headless chicken, not knowing what to do next.
18:42: , and it can help take pressure off because you realise not everything needs doing in the next 5 minutes.
18:47: I've actually got 5 weeks to do that.
18:49: Well, I have actually got 5 minutes to do that one.
18:52: So you know what, I'm gonna go ahead and do it, and I'm gonna get that ticked off the checklist that we've just worked on.
18:57: So making sure you've got that support network in a more physical sense of having targets in your diary and working towards them and calling on help if they are proving to be difficult.
19:07: That's absolutely fine as well.
19:09: Mm, that's lovely.
19:10: That's lovely.
19:11: So it creates a nice coherence and again keeps that calm.
19:16: Calm.
19:16: Absolutely.
19:17: Yes.
19:18: Yeah, it's absolutely key.
19:20: Yeah, nice structure and calm.
19:22: So when, when we're talking about our client's relationship with themselves and how they look after themselves, what's your key advice around that?
19:31: Absolutely, I mean, we talked there about having your experts around you, finding your tribe, , and you know, even the smart targets are a form of self-care to sort of slow your brain down and let yourself process everything that's coming your way in a calm, clear way.
19:48: It's so key.
19:50: But with that, it's all fine and well having that it all lined up and ready to go.
19:55: But this is an emotional process, so just be kind to yourself.
19:59: It is absolutely crucial that you look after#1 at this point.
20:04: We're here to look after you as well, but you've got to do it, and that's the one bit of homework I would give anybody listening who's going through a separation, to say, just take a minute for yourself because you're who we care about.
20:17: You absolutely are.
20:18: And you're worth caring about.
20:20: It's often easy for somebody to think.
20:22: I'm not important, I've got all these things to do, or sometimes I don't deserve to be cared about because perhaps the way their ex has made them feel or the way they've got them to got themselves to feel because of everything they've gone through, but we're here to tell you, you are number one.
20:38: Please be nice to yourself.
20:40: Mm, it's lovely, it's lovely.
20:43: Oh, I'm finding myself taking a breath.
20:46: Now I'm, I'm guessing that also comes into it.
20:49: Oh yeah, yeah, the number of times on a, oh.
20:57: So that.
20:58: The number of times, particularly on a difficult phone call, if a clients sort of, you can sort of hear them getting quicker and quicker and they're talking and you can hear the anxiety and the stress building up.
21:09: If they, if they pause for breath, it's sometimes a miracle, but I sometimes just get a chance to interject and say just breathe.
21:17: Sometimes I have to let them get to the end of it and then I'll say just breathe, and I will literally give them a few seconds of silence on the phone to enable them to do that because it is often such a difficult process, whether it's a difficult ex, difficult processing it emotionally because you weren't expecting it, or it's just proven really difficult.
21:35: All of those are entirely fair, so just breathe and take the time to get the advice.
21:40: Take the time to clear some space.
21:44: And take the time to think.
21:45: You have all of that time and space.
21:48: Use it.
21:49: Please.
21:49: Yeah.
21:50: Yeah, this is really important.
21:53: And the, the piece that comes back to me is like when we're stressed, our breathing goes up here.
22:00: Yes.
22:00: , and when we're emotional, it goes up there.
22:02: And if either of those situations, the blood is likely to be in the back of our head, in our fight and flight mechanism, not in our logical thinking mechanism.
22:11: So we need to get all of that calmed down so we can think again.
22:16: Yeah.
22:18: So how can people contact you, Colette?
22:22: Oh, and any means they possibly can, so we're we're all our social media, so you know, Instagram, LinkedIn, we've got a website, and so the Nights website, , we've got our whole family team on there and I'm obviously make an appearance, but then there's also email or phone.
22:39: I'm more than happy for somebody.
22:41: To sort of just pick up the phone even for 10 minutes to say I need your help, but I'm not, I'm not ready yet, and that's absolutely OK because you've taken that first step, so I'm more than happy for any of those means of contact.
22:54: Carry a pigeon if you can figure out how to work it, but anything really.
22:57: I'm more than happy to help.
22:59: So we'll put all that in the show notes so people know exactly where to find you.
23:04: Perfect, thank you.
23:05: Thank you so much, Colette.
23:06: It's been wonderful talking to you as ever.
23:09: You too, thank you so much, Heather, I'm really grateful for the opportunity.
23:15: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of revolutionise your love life.
23:21: I'd like to know what has been your biggest takeaway from this conversation.
23:26: Do take a minute and share this with us and visit us on our Facebook page.
23:31: You can connect with me personally on my email at heather@heather Garber.com.
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23:45: If you have any feedback on how I can improve it, please do reach out to me as I'm always keen to learn more.
23:54: Thank you so much again for listening.
23:56: And we'll meet again on the next episode of revolutionise your love life.