Dr. Kay Durairaj: well, hello, hello, guys. You're listening to

beauty bites with Dr K secrets of a plastic surgeon. And it's

time for a really interesting podcast. I know you guys have

heard the buzzword exosomes. Exosomes are everywhere in

esthetics, in your DERM office, your plastic surgery office, and

we have two really amazing experts today. We're going to

talk about all the red flags and all the safety issues you should

be aware of with exosomes that are on the market. So I want to

welcome Erin Crowley and Dr Mike heckay, and we are going to talk

in detail. Erin is a global leader in regenerative

Biotherapeutics. She's co chair of the exosm Exact oversight

Bureau and CO manager of the Crowley center for Regenerative

Biotherapeutics. So she has more than 15 years of experience in

the corporate world, engineering and regulatory compliance, and

she's bringing those gold standards into esthetics. This

year, she's really worked on pioneering a new era of purity,

functionality, transparency, and really looking at what makes a

gold standard for an exosome in terms of exosome quality. So

she's at the helm of this exosome exact oversight Bureau,

which we're going to hear more about. And Dr Mike Heke started

his career in pharma researching with Bayer, and he has been a

stem cell researcher since the year 2000 and did stem cell work

in heart failure. He was also scientific coordinator for many

large scale EU projects. He founded the German stem cell

network, and he joined Rockefeller University to lead

his department of stem cell biology. He was appointed deputy

to the president of Stanford University, managing Bing's

presidential laboratory. And he also is currently at the Crowley

center for Regenerative Biotherapeutics, and they focus

on kind of bringing stem cell science safely and effectively

into regenerative medicine. So with that huge intro, you guys

know you're listening to some experts. Welcome, welcome Aaron

and Mike. Thank you so much. Well, I want to dive right in

and talk a little bit about what is an exosome? Aaron, maybe you

can explain to me in layperson's terms. Since many people have

heard the word exome, but probably couldn't define it,

tell me how we should think of what is an exosome.

Erin Crowley: So exosomes come from lots of different sources,

and an exosome is a little nano bubble, 30 to 150 nanometers.

Super, super tiny. They're secretions of stem cells. Stem

cells also secrete hyaluronic acid, collagen type four.

Axosomes are another secretion, and inside these axosomes are

incredible rich ingredients, all the things we love for our skin

and hair, intimate tissues, you name it, they're great so

collagen inducing, so from functional proteins, growth

factors, ceramides. But what makes an exosome so totally

different than a growth factor or a bio stimulator is that this

little nano bubble, it travels to damaged tissue, and it's

captured. And when it's captured, it delivers all of

those rich ingredients I talked about, that basically restore

the cell. But also happens, and I'm not a biologist background,

so what I've learned is it also carries micro RNA, and that

micro RNA sends a message, and the cell decodes it, and just

like a computer, it reboots. So when you use age zero exosomes,

which are from Wharton's jelly, from the human umbilical cord,

where all the stem cells come from, to build the baby, the

most regenerating stem cell that exists, that message is total

rejuvenation, and based on your cell source. So if it was from

fat stem cells or adipose or bone marrow or plants, the cargo

inside is different, and the signal itself sends to your

cells are different, so you'd have a different reaction or

response or deliverable. So not all exosomes are created equal.

Wharton's jelly has been scientifically proven to be the

best, most rejuvenating source. And then you need to make sure

that your manufacturing processes make sure that that

exosome is still bioactive at the end of day. So we can get

more into that, but that's kind of a little tidbit. So exosomes

have ingredients, and they have a recipe to totally restore your

skin, your hair, and 1000s of other areas of research are

being done on the human body right now that are all really

exciting.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: I think that's a great explanation. And Mike,

do you have anything to add, like at the scientific level,

about the micro RNAs and I. Um, do you feel one one side

question too? I would love to compare and contrast

polynucleotides to exosomes, which are two entirely different

animals, but they're both out there on the market. They're

both competing for our attention.

Michael Heke: Um, so basically, Aaron already, you know,

captured a perfect overview and analysis. What it is. I think

the important parts are really that not all exosomes are

created equally. So virtually all cells secrete exosomes, but

it's therefore very important to source your exosomes properly.

So for instance, tumor cells, or cancer cells also secrete

exosomes, but they have a whole different task that supported

supporting tumor growth. So that's certainly something you

don't want to touch. So what you want to use as a cellular origin

for your stem for your exosomes, are stem cells, because they are

considered the building blocks of life, and among those, stem

cells, like MSCs, mesenchymal stem cells, they are often

sourced from either bone marrow or adipose tissue, which

requires adult donors, or from perinatal tissues, which is

placenta, umbilical cord, umbilical cord, blood and

amniotic fluid. So the adult tissues are really not optimal,

because even if you have a healthy 20 year old that donates

bone marrow or adipose tissue, they have been subjected to 20

plus years of environmental hazards, which is chemicals,

toxins, but also aging, disease, you know, bad food and it's

anything but but optimal. So you want to use perinatal tissues

instead. And even among the periodontal tissues, there are

differences among those four that I mentioned. The Wharton's

cherry of the umbilical cord is the one considered the most best

suited one, because it contains a large amount of mesenchymal

stem cells, and they are even protected from maternal

contamination, such as maternal DNA, or let's say, vaccine

residues, so all of that has no ability to get into the

Wharton's jelly mesenchymal stem cells. So they are the most

pristine and also the youngest stem cells that you can get your

hands on. And that's where those age zero characteristics come in

as the most important feature of our exosomes. H zero just means,

before we are born, we have the capacity for total regeneration

and repair, which means, in the process of development, the baby

in utero, if anything goes wrong, it will be fixed, can be

completely replaced by functional tissue, and it will

normally and therefore, it's important to utilize those stem

cells that have the ability to affect these protection

protective mechanisms. And these are the mesenchymal stem cells

that actually have been produced before the baby was born.

Interestingly, as soon as we are born, we lose that capacity for

total regeneration and repair. We obviously have the ability to

regenerate, but even it's not perfect anymore, and then with

age, it further diminishes. So when we harvest those MSCs from

the umbilical cord and culture them properly, that's also very

important, then we retain these H zero characteristics, and that

enables us to actually achieve rejuvenation, because, as I

said, those are the youngest stem cells that you can have

when they secrete those exosomes. They contain all the

micro RNAs and functional proteins and lipids, so all the

building blocks and the genetic of any cells to reboot or

reprogram itself to a younger self, to return to a more

youthful state, and to fix itself. So if you're asking

about poly nucleotides or any kind of growth fact or any other

factor to compare that with exosomes, it's just not the

same. I mean, all these individual factors, poly

nucleotides, also vitamins, of course, amino acids, all of them

are very important and relevant, and they play a role in this

process of regeneration and repair. But they are just one

factor, so any given factor is just like a palliative mean only

if you have a bioactive exosome that fuses with a target cell,

as Aaron explained it, and deliver all their cargo. It

enables the cell to do whatever it needs to do to actually

return to a fully functional and more youthful state.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: Got it Do we need to be worried about getting

HLA surface antigens or when we are harvesting exosomes from any

source that's not our own or not autologous, Should we be worried

that we're getting surface antigens and markers of another

individual in our system? No,

Unknown: we don't have to be worried about. And that's why

MSCs are the primary source for also the exosomes that we want

to use also in stem cell therapy. We also resort to MSCs

because they are immune, immune privileged. That means that

don't take key they don't contain the surface markers that

would enable your body to recognize they are foreign. And

there's a reason with because if you, if you grow a baby in your

tummy as a woman, this is considered, scientifically, an

elevator between the mom and the dad. So it is something foreign,

and it would be crazy if the mom's body would reject it as

something foreign. So that's where protective mechanisms come

from, and the immune privilege. So MSC is derived from perinatal

tissues immune privilege, so they cannot be recognized as

something foreign by your body, therefore they cannot lead to

any rejection. Instead, they're actually used to treat graft

versus host disease when you have other transplants, and

Dr. Kay Durairaj: I think that's so important. I think people

don't realize that enough, because when they are getting

exomes derived from other people's donated fat, donated

platelets or other cellular tissues, there are foreign

antigens of that individual on the surface, potentially of all

those exomes and

Unknown: unlikely, but if you get it from adult donors, it's a

little bit it's optimal, for sure, because over the course of

those 20 plus years as a as an adult donor, you might even

accrue some mutations in your in your genetics, and they got to

be More transferred in all into all your bodily cells, so the

cells, even the MSCs, are far from optimal for use as a

transplant or as a melogenic to treat it.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: Now, what motivated you guys to kind of do

this study where you looked at the impact of lyophilizing or

taking a liquid and making it into a dry powder with the

excess grains.

Unknown: So the Crowley center for Regenerative Biotherapeutics

is a venture building company. So we invest in technologies,

advanced technologies. My father, Michael Crowley, has

been commercializing advanced technologies from government

labs since 1986 so this is what what we do. And so anytime we go

to look and invest in a new technology, we do significant

vetting of the industry. And you know, we were already in the

stem cell space because that was a byproduct of a cancer

diagnostic product that we have. So we're a Wharton's jelly

technology company. And as an auditor, I started going in and

understanding what were the exosomes in the cosmetic space?

Because exosomes are growing esthetically, and to open a new

brand to supply esthetics to a distributor in Dubai. And so I

spent about six months, and I went through every company in

the exosome esthetic space, and I saw some significant gaps.

First, these products are not medical grade. They're not

having a certificate conforming with infectious disease testing.

There's no donor history on any of these doctors are receiving

exosomes, with no reports from any USA CLIA labs that would

indicate that this is medical grade, so no sterility, testing,

endotoxin, bio burden, mycoplasma, nothing was done to

indicate that the stem cells that they got these exosomes

were medical grade, are safe. Then we also looked and we said,

what else is happening in the industry, we saw that most of

the companies were actually growing their stem cells in

what's called passages, but they were doing it many times, 1500

times. So they're copying their stem cells to produce more

exosomes, and they're making copies upon copies upon copies.

And what happens is, when you expand these stem cells, they

can differentiate, they can mutate, and the axosomes they

produce are no longer good. They change. And so the international

Stem Cell Research Society would say, Never even use stem cells

that have been grown more than four passages. So that's what we

do at regenera, our stem cell company, but we were refining is

that a lot of these exosomes were coming from companies that

grow their stem cells 1500 copies. Well, that doesn't look

good. So from there, we took it a little bit further and said,

what else is happening, and what's very different from the

medical space of regenerative medicine, stem cells and

exosomes versus the esthetics, is the esthetics. All of the

products I audited as a professional auditor were all

they offlined. They were freeze dried. Why? Why would you freeze

dry? A perfectly good ExIm there's only one reason. You

want shelf stability. You want this to last on the shelf of a

doctor's office. You want it to be able to easily transport

without the cost of cold storage. Much well, in a lot of

the studies, when these exosome companies did their own studies

that they had exosomes, a lot of their data is prior to the

lyophilization process, the freeze drying process. They're

not showing you the final data of what does that bottle look

like after the product's been freeze dried. Why this is

important is an exosome is, is, you know, a biological liquid in

a sense, right? And to make it understandable, I love freeze

dried strawberries. They're crunchy, delicious. Put them on

my salad, but I can't just add some dilutant, and suddenly

they're plump and red. Again, the strawberry, and that's what,

yeah, like they're plump, they're vibrant. I mean, they've

changed through that freeze drying process, right? Nutrients

have changed. They are changed. And when you lyophilize an

exome, you change them. You rip the water out of the exosome.

The exosome is a bi lipid membrane on the outside, and

there's lots of goodies on the inside. If you freeze dry, you

are removing all the liquid, and you are breaking the membrane

open, which spills out the cargo, spills out all those

goodies. So gas, topically, you could have some effect of growth

factors on your face. But if that exosome is not fully

intact, it's not complete, and it tries to be captured by the

cell, it can't signal you're not getting an exosome effect. It's

broken. It's inactive. So we've seen this, and we've done an

audit. I started doing this audit in 2023 and then it took

us about a year, and we hired the world's leading researcher

in exosomes, Dr Carla mazio from she's been at Boston University,

MIT. She does some, you know, collaborative work at Harvard.

She did her first PhD in exosomes back in 2004 when

everyone else said exosomes were trash, and she came on full time

on our team, and we hired her essentially, like, let's look at

this whole industry, and let's look at all the tools that you

have today to start analyzing blind studies at Harvard

University in Boston. What's in all these products? FDA is not

checking. No one's checking. And I'm an auditor, and that's kind

of what I've designed, you know, to do. And I just said,

consumers deserve to know. They deserve to know, are they

getting a bioactive, exosome that they're paying for, or are

they getting an inactive product, yet spending 1000s of

dollars on something that is not an exosome and so that's exactly

what we did. We hired Dr Mazzeo. Over the last year, she's been

researching and using the Nano site 300 technology to see, are

these particles and all of these other bottles, are they then the

30 to 150 nanometer size, to say yes, it's an exosome size, or is

it a different particle? And then after you determine that

yes, it's the correct size, it's 30 to 150 nanometers, you have

to check that these exosomes are intact. And that's when we use

the transmission electron microscope at Harvard. And so a

lot of this work is in the process of publications been

submitted because we believe consumers have the right to

know, and we really want doctors to be educated about this very

advanced new technology and help them understand how they can

help their patient. But it's not by having inactive products.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: And in looking at this, you guys did electron

microscopy studies talk a little bit about what that showed when

we looked at what an actual nanosome looks like when it's

been treated after lyophilization or rehydrated.

Mike, you want to take it

Unknown: here. That is one way to actually check if you have a

bioactive and functional exosome. So the thing is, as

Aaron pointed out, when you freeze dry an exosome you

destroy the bubble, the bio, auto by lipid layer, and then

all of the all of what you have left, actually exosome degree.

And there might be some some growth factors left, because

proteins can be stable under freeze drying. They might have

some effect, but it's only palliative, so superficial and

temporary. I always like that too. Moisturizer, if you have

dry skin and put a dry riser on, as long as you use the

moisturizer, it looks supple and nice, but leave it away, and

you're back to your dry skin. Right? An exosome can actually

fix the skin that it's no longer dry. But in order to do so, it

has to be intact, intact, functional. So you cannot

destroy this, this bubble, otherwise you lose, for

instance, all the RNAs, which provide the genetic instructions

for the cell to, you know, fix itself. And this that you were

talking about red flags, the prevalent problem in the field

is that people get hooked on the word exosome, and they don't

care where it comes from. And then you have, of course, you

have, like, all those bad sheep, black sheep, and do the wireless

claims like, one of the things is you have to be careful. You

see it all over. Place when they claim or advertise, they have

hundreds of growth factors in their exosomes. That is simply

not true. It's very unscientific, and it's just a

testament to their ignorance. There are roughly 50 growth

factors in existence at all, and our proteomic studies, for

instance, confirmed the presence of 46 of them, at least the

remaining might be present, but under the threshold of

detection. So all these claims are really a problem. The free

all of the leading companies in the sector, freeze drying, the

exosomes for the benefit of easy shipping and 10 shelf life, what

you're ending up with is exosomal debris, and not

exosomes. They can function as they should and could. And

worse, I have a slide on this where 5 billion exosomes feast

right result in 20 milligrams of some kind of powder that they

then dilute with some secret liquid. And I did the math so 5

billion exosomes by roughly three microgram and when you

have 20 milligrams in there, it means that 99.98% of the content

is actually not even exosomal debris. There's something else

with stabilizers, fillers, etc, and that's also a red flag to

me, because that's something you don't want to put on your skin,

you know, or into your body. You don't want to have legalizers or

these chemicals. So, so we take great pride in our product that

consider HDMI in scaling, and that's it. And if

you look at I never inject that stuff into your body, right?

Mike, like you would never want to inject the lay offline. No

way. Don't do that.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: Yes, thanks. Thanks for saying that outright,

because so many people out there don't do it. I see people doing

IV exosomes, and it makes me want to cringe, like, yeah, you

will just die of anaphylactic shock and Sep bacterial sepsis,

and God, God knows what's going through your bloodstream, too.

We did this

Unknown: electromicroscopy study to actually really check

diligently, and we, by now, have checked 10 competitors, like

the, you know, the more dominant ones in the market, and all of

the lyophilized exosome products out there do not contain single

exosome No,

Dr. Kay Durairaj: all you checked like 1817, or 18

different brands, right?

Unknown: Yeah, and no exosomes. I'd be furious if I was a

consumer and paid all that money and had nothing in my product

that was an exosome, yet labeled an exosome. And

Dr. Kay Durairaj: then so you guys are also testing other

things, besides just the picture of the electron microscopy,

you're also looking at biogenesis markers to show if

there's like, actual active RNAs present. Mike, do you

Unknown: want to take, kind of the proteomics analysis, a

little bit, kind of the some of the work we've done recently

with a company called Creative, creative Bio Labs.

Bio Labs, yeah, that was also for us, because, again, when,

when you talk about claims, we also proposed a generic list of

cargo, what an exosome typically consists of, and all the things

that are typically present and what they are relevant for and

good for. But we wanted to check our own exosomes for, you know,

actual presence of all these. So we did some rather elaborate, or

we're still in the process of doing more but elaborate

proteomic study, also lipidomics, metallomics and RNA

profiling. So we were keen to identify all the proteins that

we hope were present, and we confirmed, or we wanted to know,

how many growth factors are present in our exosomes. And I

mentioned that we have, like, at least 4650 known growth factors

present. We have over 250 cytokines that we identified,

and all the relevant RNAs. And this, of course, gives ourselves

confidence. I mean, we were confident in our product, but we

wanted to substantiate our confidence, also to actually

provide this kind of information to our customers, and make sure

that we go beyond wild claims to just promote a product. I think

everybody should deserves actually the product that they

are paying for and that they deserve. Actually, the promise

can be delivered of excellent therapy and therapeutics, both

the regenerative medicine market as well as in cosmetics and

esthetics,

Dr. Kay Durairaj: is. There a precise approach where we can

direct which micro RNAs are getting encapsulated and

delivered. Since we can get a, you know, 50 different growth

factors, a bunch of cytokines, I'm assuming that we would like

to have directed therapies where we want specific MRA fragments,

specific growth factors. And is there a danger in just throwing

the kitchen sink that you know Wharton's jelly works in the

baby, in the fetus, to go to the cells that need it specific

messaging. But do those do, those deliveries of so many

growth factors and products overwhelm the skin, or is it

misdirection? Is the skin getting messaging? Then belong?

That belongs to neural tissue and muscular tissue and nerve

tissue. That's

Unknown: a fantastic question. Um, so the good news is there's

no, no danger of any sort. It's, it's, at worst is like, you

know, you take too many vitamins, then you know,

whatever the body cannot use will just go through. And you

can, you can imagine that the same, that's the same for

exosomes. So exosome therapy and technology is still early on,

relatively early on, I wouldn't rule it out that down the road,

you might want to manipulate them in a certain way to

actually be more prone to do this, or more prone to do that,

especially when it comes to treating certain diseases. I

also am acutely aware of the pharma industry being very

interested in creating hybrid exosomes, where they use

exosomes as a carrier for certain small molecules that

they develop certain medications and so on. And that all makes

sense. That is, that is a little bit on the road, I would argue

for right now, the exosomes that we are providing, for instance,

they contain, like most of what you might be interested in, and

we see them as a universal tool. So we have seen them to be

successfully used treating hair, respiration conditions, skin

rejuvenation, Scar prevention and reversal. We have seen them

applied towards the treatment of certainly the cerebral palsy, MS

and many, many things more traumatic brain injury, and it's

always the same pain. It's always the same exosome and can

treat a variety of conditions and what I personally feel like,

it also makes sense, because within each cell of our body, we

have roughly 20,000 genes that are expressed to certain levels

that make cell function in a certain way. You know, it's

extremely complex. I gave up a long time ago to really get to

the bottom of it, because biology is just so complex that

you cannot figure it out in minute detail, therefore a more

holistic approach, like using the perfect exosome, if you

excuse me, using that term, using the perfect exosome that

provides everything an individual Cell might need to

fix itself is for me, already like a major milestone. Whether

we go ahead like, you know, personalize them in certain

ways, I wouldn't rule it out, but it might also not be

necessary find out there, Aaron,

Dr. Kay Durairaj: I have a question for you. So as an

esthetic provider, then what should I be asking my exosome

company for proof of in terms of purification, purity, sourcing,

reliability between batches. Are there some things that you want

us to ask when we're going up to the

Unknown: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for asking. Yeah. Let's keep

it simple, safety, quality, bioactivity, that's what we want

to know. So from a safety perspective, do you have a

certificate of conformity from a US Lab that there was all the

infectious diseases and sterility done? We always ship

that report with every mile, whether it's our cosmetic

topical or it's our regenerol company. So safety first, last

and always make sure there's a certificate conformity for all

the infectious diseases and sterility that was done on the

stem cells. Two, make sure the stem cells are of quality, so

that they were grown in that low passage. They should not be

grown more than four passages, otherwise they mutate. So

safety, then quality is really making sure that they're good,

good stem cell source. And then the last is, how do you ensure

that they're bioactive? Well, don't get a my offline one,

right? You want a product that comes with a nano site, 300 that

you have exosome particles. And. Transmission electro microscope

that shows your exosomes intact. This is legitimate exosome

sourcing. If you don't have safety, quality and bioactivity,

and that's confirmed by your distributor or your sales person

or manufacturer, then it's basically buying fool's gold.

Wow.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: And then tell me some brands that you think do

have the safety, quality and bioactivity.

Unknown: So I know the analysis so far, you have to start with

who manufactures stem cells? Yes, there's only three

Wharton's jelly stem cell manufacturers in the United

States left today, and one of them only sells to research

companies. The other is only in clinical trial. We're the only

commercial Wharton jelly medical grade stem cell manufacturer in

the United States. There are some in Costa Rica, Panama.

There used to be the main Wuhan Institute in China. But at this

point, we are the only commercially available. So if

you ask me, what product would you put on your pinpoint,

bleeding face, I would say only age zero. I can't recommend

another product fully from a full auditing perspective. Now

we have some more. The only products we tested where the

layoff lies. We wanted to get the heavy hitters, bad hitters,

out first. Now there is a company out of Pennsylvania.

It's that exosl bio company, right? Exosl bio, they at least

have a quality report. They show what they test for. I don't know

how many passages they do, but they do come from a perinatal

source, they do provide a certificate of quality. But

other than that, we've done extensive auditing, and the data

is not there for safety for 99% of the companies out there.

That's just a fact.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: Yeah, and for consumers listening just the

buyer beware that these products are cosmeceuticals, which means

they're no one looks at the ingredients, the safety profile

they're applied. Designed for topical skin use only, not for

injection microneedling only, not subcutaneous injections and

IV deliveries and all of that. And that includes for hair,

skin, body, everything. Because I don't think patients realize

that too,

Unknown: right? And I'm just concerned where we started the

exact oversight so exact stands for exosomes, auditing

compliance and testing members organization and to help

maintain the future of exosomes. Exosomes has an incredibly

bright future. The work we're seeing in delaying of

Alzheimer's, cardiac children's cerebral palsy, every area of

the body and the opportunity to regenerate. This is the future

of medicine, and we cannot afford for exosm companies in

here to ride a hype and destroy the name, destroy quality. So we

can't get started on that path. I don't want to happen in the

stem cell world. 20 years ago with Bucha and COVID, be right.

We have an opportunity for incredible future, and the

things that Mike and I have seen with patients is really so sci

fi, and if it wasn't real, it would just think that you're

dreaming. But we've seen amazing results that everyone will want

someday, and the only way we're gonna get that is if we protect

the name exosm.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: Can you walk us through one of your hero

products for Facial Esthetics, and what's how it works? What

kind of results we can expect?

Unknown: Yeah, having to thanks for asking. Before we got in the

industry, we wanted to do a clinical trial and understand

dose that's important to us, and we didn't see major clinical

trials working on dose. So we did 100 patient trial and

divided into three groups, post micro needling, three microning

sessions month apart, and they got 5 billion exosomes, 50 or

100 and we thought, Great, 100. We hope that wins. We're the

world's biggest manufacturer of exomes. We can do a huge dose

reality, 5 billion is fantastic. Dose you apply it topically

after microneedling or laser, reduces redness, improves skin

texture, glow, fine lines, wrinkles, you know, all the

things that we're really looking for. I love taking our exosomes,

and every day after exfoliating on the shower, I love to spritz

them on with an oxygen mister. It feels so good. I would always

use an oxygen mister because it comes on cold. So if you're

doing a microneedling treatment or laser, it feels great. And

instead of just dropping the excess guns on that are in

Saline once and rubbing it in, you get many applications,

because that fine mister. I love that. We've got a bunch of hair

studies going on right now. Hair is a complex field. We've got

all different ages, diseases that are immune health

conditions. But, you know, I would say, start using exosomes.

Drop them on every few days, right away. If you feel like

you're having some thinning hair, it's great for scalp

conditioning. And then we're in the front. Process of launching

an intimate tissue product, really, really setting

indications of, how do you improve vaginal atrophy? I

turned 40 in just, I think, eight days. So the perimenopause

conversation is, is big for me right now. And I as an engineer,

if I start getting scared of something, I really want to work

on it. So the product we're working on right now with them,

you know, postpartum and perimenopause, menopause is our

next gen and, like, what else we got, a lot of stuff in our

parent company, clinical trial on cardiac you know, do you name

it? Post

hydrogel? Yeah, the hydrogel, yeah, and preventing scar

formation or like, really, like, yeah, Scar prevention and also

scar reversal to some degree, decade old scars that got

microneedled and then treated with exosomes, and you see major

improvement, which is interesting, because the

reversal of scar tissue was always A dogma are considered

not to be possible at all. It's just not true, and it just goes

to show what the potential of true exosomes really are. I

mean, they can really they have the capacity for total

regeneration and repair, and can affect a replacement of scar

tissue with more functional tissue. Again, that's really

remarkable. And then we also working on a skincare line, but

we are doing that very carefully, because we find that

the ingredients and the quality and the sourcing of those

formulations has to match the quality standards of the

exosomes. So you don't just like use the random generic you know,

cream or something, and mix in some exosomes that just wouldn't

do them justice. So that's something we are working on on a

more scientific level. And I think that when you when you ask

what to watch out for, what red flags to avoid, you should

really vet the provider of your exosols. Many do. They

manufacture stem cells themselves, because if they

don't, they have no control over where those exosomes really come

from, what the quality is, etc. So that would be a red flag, and

we are deeply rooted in regenerative medicine. But I'm

not saying it only because of that fact that I would always

argue, no matter who you choose as a provider for your exosomes,

if they are not dabbling in regenerative medicine, they are

not doing their exosomes just and they are not providing the

real deal. Because all the exosomes we actually provide,

also for the cosmetics and esthetics market, are medical

grade to the highest bankers, because we feel it's important

and it's just right. And as Aaron pointed out, when you get

your face microneedled, it's basically a very big open wound,

and don't want to put anything on there. That's not medical

grade. So in this context, even though Cosmetics is highly

unregulated, I think they should both have the same standards of

quality and safety

Dr. Kay Durairaj: in terms of stem cells, then, Mike, are you?

Can you say a few words on that? Because that is also everywhere,

and also there's so many charlatans promoting fake

science. I wanted to maybe bring people some of your key ideas on

stem cells in terms of treatment options. Absolutely.

Unknown: Yeah, there are bad actors everywhere and similar

problem. Sometimes you get offered stem cell treatments

with the virus claims that treat any disease. And in theory,

that's That's true. I mean, you can actually address any kind of

conditional disease with the right kind of stem cell, and

then it's just about figuring out the route of application,

the right dosing, the frequency, and so on. And each person, each

patient, might have an individual response to it. So

that is not as trivial. There is the potential that you can treat

virtually every disease, but it is, again, very complex, and we

don't yet have any established benchmarks, but stem cell

therapy works, and that's, again, where we come from. We

originally created the stem cells to stem cell therapy, and

then we realized basically those exosomes in the day when I

started stem cell therapy, we thought we inject stem cell and

they replace tissue. That was not the case. Instead, they

threw what's called Paracrine signaling. And how will they do

that? They actually affect any benefits through secretion of

exosomes. Exosomes are actually containing everything you need,

and they're secreted from the from the stem cells and go to

the target cells. And there are the means by which the stem

cells operate. So they are experts in cell cell signaling

and communication. And you go, that's the next. Evolutionary

step of stem cell therapy for exosomes only.

I think it's really exciting for people who might be listening

though that are looking for stem cell treatment, is that as of

July 1, it looks like Florida's passing the bill for stem cells

treatment for wounds, pain and orthopedic use, you have already

passed a law and, um, there's at least one other so this is kind

of state by state rolling and you're in Florida, put in these

quality manufacturing regulatory standards, right? They, they

implemented it into the standard. So, um, as of July, 1,

for the first time ever in the state of Florida, Jonathan

market king, they can market, or the feta thick and market. So

that's a big win, win for our industry.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: That's amazing. Well, you guys, in

summary, I wanted to ask you a couple quick personal questions.

If you had to focus on one of the hallmarks of aging, is there

one track that you think is going to lead us to lead us to

the cancer, telomere, mitochondria, DNA repair, Mike

or Aaron, either one.

Unknown: Personally, I cannot claim this to be very

scientific, because right now, it's more conviction based on

bearings and what I've seen, but I do have a hunch that exosomes,

certain ways might be, comes some fountain of you. Yeah, we

have seen actual reversal of age. H, you know, issues like

hair restoration was the most obvious one, where a person in

their mid 40s got thinning hair, we microneedled and put some

exosomes on it was our patient zero. Was the husband of our

CMO, and after just one treatment, four weeks later, the

hair was visibly denser. But not only that, it was also darker.

He had dark hair, and keeping his age was salt and pepper, but

the patch that was treated was overall darker, and similarly,

our Chairman, Aaron's Father, he is in his mid 70s. Now, he had a

big bald spot on top of his head. And we treated that micro

needling plus exosomes. And after two treatments, he was

initially a little bit underworld because he saw some

baby hair growing in the middle of the patch, but he was hoping

for a little more. But truth be told, he also had a ball spot

for some 30 years, I think. And then when check those

photographs, we realized that the bald spot got much smaller.

It was half the size, basically. So it just goes to show that we

actually reverse time indeed, because that's how a bald spot

grows, right? It's thinning at first small ball catch, and then

it grows larger and larger. And treating it with exosomes, it

went the same way in reverse. So talking about rejuvenation,

overuse, buzz word, my sense, like we see that we can return

we can turn back the clock. We can reverse aging. So if you're

asking about the potential pixel for you know, a fountain of you,

yes, sir, I would think that we'll get there if we figure out

how dosage frequencies and so on, and boot up applications, I

think we will see remarkable things.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: Oh, that's so exciting. My goodness, if I

worked at age zero, I'd have that on all over we do. And

Aaron, what's your usual bioacting regimen for yourself

at home? Do you have a supplement stack that you take,

or what do you do in this day? Super healthy. Yeah,

Unknown: no. So I'm like Mike. I'm a age zero, exosome girl all

the way. I've never done Botox. I do micro needling, RF, laser.

But I want to see what the world looks like for me without

filler. I want to be that first person who is only using

exosomes. I'm 39 I want to see what I look like at 2075 I want

to be the person that has exosomes all day, every day,

missing them in we'll be inhaling them the nasal spray,

right? These are the products of the future, and I'm very lucky

that I get to live in the world where we see that. So

Dr. Kay Durairaj: how about orally? Is there an oral

supplement, exosome that repairs the GI tract yet?

Unknown: No, that's actually something that's being worked

on. Is timing the capsule to release at the right point.

Yeah, so cool, yeah. So suppositories. I mean, we're

talking about any way you can get an exosome in. Is of

interest to our company, right? Because we like to study all of

it. We like to see what's happening with the body. And

we're so lucky to have incredible doctors and

researchers around the world coming to us and saying, hey, I

want to study this. And as the world's largest producer of

exomes, we say, Absolutely, let's do it. So, Dr, k, if

there's anything

you want to study, oh my gosh, I have a little algorithm. I have

an email ready

for you. Got the product,

Dr. Kay Durairaj: we can bring it together. I would really like

to try it and do some really good studies myself. You guys

take anything for your own health, like NAD Are you taking

magnesium? Are you taking, hopefully, vitamin D, etc. We've

got a

Unknown: lot of the doctors that do a lot of combination work

with NAD and stem cells and exosomes. So, you know, they

feel like it's a great combo.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: Yeah, announcing, well, I have just

really enjoyed this last hour. It's flown by. But the knowledge

that we're giving to the esthetic community and the

people out there at large is so valuable, because there is so

much hype out there. And I think having a committee to really

look at these standards is really critical for like you

said, we want exosomes to reach point they become medical

therapies that will never happen if the FDA shuts it down for

Bosnia and some other zones, you know. So you guys, where can

people find you if they want to stay in touch with Aaron and

with Mike?

Unknown: Great question. We just got approved by forefront

dermatology, so you can find us there at any of their offices.

We are easy to purchase directly from in the United States. We've

got sales reps all over, but you can just reach out order online.

And then we're in Dubai, Pakistan, Lebanon, Qatar. We're

growing all over the place. Every day, new people are

finding us and saying, Oh, at last, we found a company that

checks all the boxes.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: I love that. And then you're going to stay at

the helm of the xsM exact oversight Bureau is really a

mission that I think people who want to market their exemption

voluntarily submit their data to you and like show that they're

so great. Hopefully, that's hopefully, that's the news.

Newest standards. Do you want to give out your Instagram handles

or company websites?

Unknown: Yeah, so where you can find us is R, E, S, I, L, I, E,

L, L, E, resilient, and we're growing, and we're excited to be

new players in this esthetics industry. So thank you so much

for for having us.

What a pleasure exosomes.

Dr. Kay Durairaj: Yeah, and Dr Mike, thank you for your

insights. You are a world class stem cell researcher at this

hour of having your attention, so

Unknown: we're lucky to have Mike is a game changer for us

all. Thanks

to you and your wonderful questions. Yes, thank

Dr. Kay Durairaj: you so much. We'll do it again soon. That's

it for now. Guys, don't forget to find me on my instagram. It's

Beauty by Dr, k, d, r, k, a, y, doing amazing things for

different faces. We know we have an injector teaching platform.

It's called Modern esthetic theory and artistry. Definitely

going to talk about these. I just know these and all the

standards and for our injectors out there, don't forget to come

visit me, fairvin la, and that's it for now, guys, stay

beautiful. You.