Dr. Kay Durairaj: well, hello, hello, guys. You're listening to
beauty bites with Dr K secrets of a plastic surgeon. And it's
time for a really interesting podcast. I know you guys have
heard the buzzword exosomes. Exosomes are everywhere in
esthetics, in your DERM office, your plastic surgery office, and
we have two really amazing experts today. We're going to
talk about all the red flags and all the safety issues you should
be aware of with exosomes that are on the market. So I want to
welcome Erin Crowley and Dr Mike heckay, and we are going to talk
in detail. Erin is a global leader in regenerative
Biotherapeutics. She's co chair of the exosm Exact oversight
Bureau and CO manager of the Crowley center for Regenerative
Biotherapeutics. So she has more than 15 years of experience in
the corporate world, engineering and regulatory compliance, and
she's bringing those gold standards into esthetics. This
year, she's really worked on pioneering a new era of purity,
functionality, transparency, and really looking at what makes a
gold standard for an exosome in terms of exosome quality. So
she's at the helm of this exosome exact oversight Bureau,
which we're going to hear more about. And Dr Mike Heke started
his career in pharma researching with Bayer, and he has been a
stem cell researcher since the year 2000 and did stem cell work
in heart failure. He was also scientific coordinator for many
large scale EU projects. He founded the German stem cell
network, and he joined Rockefeller University to lead
his department of stem cell biology. He was appointed deputy
to the president of Stanford University, managing Bing's
presidential laboratory. And he also is currently at the Crowley
center for Regenerative Biotherapeutics, and they focus
on kind of bringing stem cell science safely and effectively
into regenerative medicine. So with that huge intro, you guys
know you're listening to some experts. Welcome, welcome Aaron
and Mike. Thank you so much. Well, I want to dive right in
and talk a little bit about what is an exosome? Aaron, maybe you
can explain to me in layperson's terms. Since many people have
heard the word exome, but probably couldn't define it,
tell me how we should think of what is an exosome.
Erin Crowley: So exosomes come from lots of different sources,
and an exosome is a little nano bubble, 30 to 150 nanometers.
Super, super tiny. They're secretions of stem cells. Stem
cells also secrete hyaluronic acid, collagen type four.
Axosomes are another secretion, and inside these axosomes are
incredible rich ingredients, all the things we love for our skin
and hair, intimate tissues, you name it, they're great so
collagen inducing, so from functional proteins, growth
factors, ceramides. But what makes an exosome so totally
different than a growth factor or a bio stimulator is that this
little nano bubble, it travels to damaged tissue, and it's
captured. And when it's captured, it delivers all of
those rich ingredients I talked about, that basically restore
the cell. But also happens, and I'm not a biologist background,
so what I've learned is it also carries micro RNA, and that
micro RNA sends a message, and the cell decodes it, and just
like a computer, it reboots. So when you use age zero exosomes,
which are from Wharton's jelly, from the human umbilical cord,
where all the stem cells come from, to build the baby, the
most regenerating stem cell that exists, that message is total
rejuvenation, and based on your cell source. So if it was from
fat stem cells or adipose or bone marrow or plants, the cargo
inside is different, and the signal itself sends to your
cells are different, so you'd have a different reaction or
response or deliverable. So not all exosomes are created equal.
Wharton's jelly has been scientifically proven to be the
best, most rejuvenating source. And then you need to make sure
that your manufacturing processes make sure that that
exosome is still bioactive at the end of day. So we can get
more into that, but that's kind of a little tidbit. So exosomes
have ingredients, and they have a recipe to totally restore your
skin, your hair, and 1000s of other areas of research are
being done on the human body right now that are all really
exciting.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: I think that's a great explanation. And Mike,
do you have anything to add, like at the scientific level,
about the micro RNAs and I. Um, do you feel one one side
question too? I would love to compare and contrast
polynucleotides to exosomes, which are two entirely different
animals, but they're both out there on the market. They're
both competing for our attention.
Michael Heke: Um, so basically, Aaron already, you know,
captured a perfect overview and analysis. What it is. I think
the important parts are really that not all exosomes are
created equally. So virtually all cells secrete exosomes, but
it's therefore very important to source your exosomes properly.
So for instance, tumor cells, or cancer cells also secrete
exosomes, but they have a whole different task that supported
supporting tumor growth. So that's certainly something you
don't want to touch. So what you want to use as a cellular origin
for your stem for your exosomes, are stem cells, because they are
considered the building blocks of life, and among those, stem
cells, like MSCs, mesenchymal stem cells, they are often
sourced from either bone marrow or adipose tissue, which
requires adult donors, or from perinatal tissues, which is
placenta, umbilical cord, umbilical cord, blood and
amniotic fluid. So the adult tissues are really not optimal,
because even if you have a healthy 20 year old that donates
bone marrow or adipose tissue, they have been subjected to 20
plus years of environmental hazards, which is chemicals,
toxins, but also aging, disease, you know, bad food and it's
anything but but optimal. So you want to use perinatal tissues
instead. And even among the periodontal tissues, there are
differences among those four that I mentioned. The Wharton's
cherry of the umbilical cord is the one considered the most best
suited one, because it contains a large amount of mesenchymal
stem cells, and they are even protected from maternal
contamination, such as maternal DNA, or let's say, vaccine
residues, so all of that has no ability to get into the
Wharton's jelly mesenchymal stem cells. So they are the most
pristine and also the youngest stem cells that you can get your
hands on. And that's where those age zero characteristics come in
as the most important feature of our exosomes. H zero just means,
before we are born, we have the capacity for total regeneration
and repair, which means, in the process of development, the baby
in utero, if anything goes wrong, it will be fixed, can be
completely replaced by functional tissue, and it will
normally and therefore, it's important to utilize those stem
cells that have the ability to affect these protection
protective mechanisms. And these are the mesenchymal stem cells
that actually have been produced before the baby was born.
Interestingly, as soon as we are born, we lose that capacity for
total regeneration and repair. We obviously have the ability to
regenerate, but even it's not perfect anymore, and then with
age, it further diminishes. So when we harvest those MSCs from
the umbilical cord and culture them properly, that's also very
important, then we retain these H zero characteristics, and that
enables us to actually achieve rejuvenation, because, as I
said, those are the youngest stem cells that you can have
when they secrete those exosomes. They contain all the
micro RNAs and functional proteins and lipids, so all the
building blocks and the genetic of any cells to reboot or
reprogram itself to a younger self, to return to a more
youthful state, and to fix itself. So if you're asking
about poly nucleotides or any kind of growth fact or any other
factor to compare that with exosomes, it's just not the
same. I mean, all these individual factors, poly
nucleotides, also vitamins, of course, amino acids, all of them
are very important and relevant, and they play a role in this
process of regeneration and repair. But they are just one
factor, so any given factor is just like a palliative mean only
if you have a bioactive exosome that fuses with a target cell,
as Aaron explained it, and deliver all their cargo. It
enables the cell to do whatever it needs to do to actually
return to a fully functional and more youthful state.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: Got it Do we need to be worried about getting
HLA surface antigens or when we are harvesting exosomes from any
source that's not our own or not autologous, Should we be worried
that we're getting surface antigens and markers of another
individual in our system? No,
Unknown: we don't have to be worried about. And that's why
MSCs are the primary source for also the exosomes that we want
to use also in stem cell therapy. We also resort to MSCs
because they are immune, immune privileged. That means that
don't take key they don't contain the surface markers that
would enable your body to recognize they are foreign. And
there's a reason with because if you, if you grow a baby in your
tummy as a woman, this is considered, scientifically, an
elevator between the mom and the dad. So it is something foreign,
and it would be crazy if the mom's body would reject it as
something foreign. So that's where protective mechanisms come
from, and the immune privilege. So MSC is derived from perinatal
tissues immune privilege, so they cannot be recognized as
something foreign by your body, therefore they cannot lead to
any rejection. Instead, they're actually used to treat graft
versus host disease when you have other transplants, and
Dr. Kay Durairaj: I think that's so important. I think people
don't realize that enough, because when they are getting
exomes derived from other people's donated fat, donated
platelets or other cellular tissues, there are foreign
antigens of that individual on the surface, potentially of all
those exomes and
Unknown: unlikely, but if you get it from adult donors, it's a
little bit it's optimal, for sure, because over the course of
those 20 plus years as a as an adult donor, you might even
accrue some mutations in your in your genetics, and they got to
be More transferred in all into all your bodily cells, so the
cells, even the MSCs, are far from optimal for use as a
transplant or as a melogenic to treat it.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: Now, what motivated you guys to kind of do
this study where you looked at the impact of lyophilizing or
taking a liquid and making it into a dry powder with the
excess grains.
Unknown: So the Crowley center for Regenerative Biotherapeutics
is a venture building company. So we invest in technologies,
advanced technologies. My father, Michael Crowley, has
been commercializing advanced technologies from government
labs since 1986 so this is what what we do. And so anytime we go
to look and invest in a new technology, we do significant
vetting of the industry. And you know, we were already in the
stem cell space because that was a byproduct of a cancer
diagnostic product that we have. So we're a Wharton's jelly
technology company. And as an auditor, I started going in and
understanding what were the exosomes in the cosmetic space?
Because exosomes are growing esthetically, and to open a new
brand to supply esthetics to a distributor in Dubai. And so I
spent about six months, and I went through every company in
the exosome esthetic space, and I saw some significant gaps.
First, these products are not medical grade. They're not
having a certificate conforming with infectious disease testing.
There's no donor history on any of these doctors are receiving
exosomes, with no reports from any USA CLIA labs that would
indicate that this is medical grade, so no sterility, testing,
endotoxin, bio burden, mycoplasma, nothing was done to
indicate that the stem cells that they got these exosomes
were medical grade, are safe. Then we also looked and we said,
what else is happening in the industry, we saw that most of
the companies were actually growing their stem cells in
what's called passages, but they were doing it many times, 1500
times. So they're copying their stem cells to produce more
exosomes, and they're making copies upon copies upon copies.
And what happens is, when you expand these stem cells, they
can differentiate, they can mutate, and the axosomes they
produce are no longer good. They change. And so the international
Stem Cell Research Society would say, Never even use stem cells
that have been grown more than four passages. So that's what we
do at regenera, our stem cell company, but we were refining is
that a lot of these exosomes were coming from companies that
grow their stem cells 1500 copies. Well, that doesn't look
good. So from there, we took it a little bit further and said,
what else is happening, and what's very different from the
medical space of regenerative medicine, stem cells and
exosomes versus the esthetics, is the esthetics. All of the
products I audited as a professional auditor were all
they offlined. They were freeze dried. Why? Why would you freeze
dry? A perfectly good ExIm there's only one reason. You
want shelf stability. You want this to last on the shelf of a
doctor's office. You want it to be able to easily transport
without the cost of cold storage. Much well, in a lot of
the studies, when these exosome companies did their own studies
that they had exosomes, a lot of their data is prior to the
lyophilization process, the freeze drying process. They're
not showing you the final data of what does that bottle look
like after the product's been freeze dried. Why this is
important is an exosome is, is, you know, a biological liquid in
a sense, right? And to make it understandable, I love freeze
dried strawberries. They're crunchy, delicious. Put them on
my salad, but I can't just add some dilutant, and suddenly
they're plump and red. Again, the strawberry, and that's what,
yeah, like they're plump, they're vibrant. I mean, they've
changed through that freeze drying process, right? Nutrients
have changed. They are changed. And when you lyophilize an
exome, you change them. You rip the water out of the exosome.
The exosome is a bi lipid membrane on the outside, and
there's lots of goodies on the inside. If you freeze dry, you
are removing all the liquid, and you are breaking the membrane
open, which spills out the cargo, spills out all those
goodies. So gas, topically, you could have some effect of growth
factors on your face. But if that exosome is not fully
intact, it's not complete, and it tries to be captured by the
cell, it can't signal you're not getting an exosome effect. It's
broken. It's inactive. So we've seen this, and we've done an
audit. I started doing this audit in 2023 and then it took
us about a year, and we hired the world's leading researcher
in exosomes, Dr Carla mazio from she's been at Boston University,
MIT. She does some, you know, collaborative work at Harvard.
She did her first PhD in exosomes back in 2004 when
everyone else said exosomes were trash, and she came on full time
on our team, and we hired her essentially, like, let's look at
this whole industry, and let's look at all the tools that you
have today to start analyzing blind studies at Harvard
University in Boston. What's in all these products? FDA is not
checking. No one's checking. And I'm an auditor, and that's kind
of what I've designed, you know, to do. And I just said,
consumers deserve to know. They deserve to know, are they
getting a bioactive, exosome that they're paying for, or are
they getting an inactive product, yet spending 1000s of
dollars on something that is not an exosome and so that's exactly
what we did. We hired Dr Mazzeo. Over the last year, she's been
researching and using the Nano site 300 technology to see, are
these particles and all of these other bottles, are they then the
30 to 150 nanometer size, to say yes, it's an exosome size, or is
it a different particle? And then after you determine that
yes, it's the correct size, it's 30 to 150 nanometers, you have
to check that these exosomes are intact. And that's when we use
the transmission electron microscope at Harvard. And so a
lot of this work is in the process of publications been
submitted because we believe consumers have the right to
know, and we really want doctors to be educated about this very
advanced new technology and help them understand how they can
help their patient. But it's not by having inactive products.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: And in looking at this, you guys did electron
microscopy studies talk a little bit about what that showed when
we looked at what an actual nanosome looks like when it's
been treated after lyophilization or rehydrated.
Mike, you want to take it
Unknown: here. That is one way to actually check if you have a
bioactive and functional exosome. So the thing is, as
Aaron pointed out, when you freeze dry an exosome you
destroy the bubble, the bio, auto by lipid layer, and then
all of the all of what you have left, actually exosome degree.
And there might be some some growth factors left, because
proteins can be stable under freeze drying. They might have
some effect, but it's only palliative, so superficial and
temporary. I always like that too. Moisturizer, if you have
dry skin and put a dry riser on, as long as you use the
moisturizer, it looks supple and nice, but leave it away, and
you're back to your dry skin. Right? An exosome can actually
fix the skin that it's no longer dry. But in order to do so, it
has to be intact, intact, functional. So you cannot
destroy this, this bubble, otherwise you lose, for
instance, all the RNAs, which provide the genetic instructions
for the cell to, you know, fix itself. And this that you were
talking about red flags, the prevalent problem in the field
is that people get hooked on the word exosome, and they don't
care where it comes from. And then you have, of course, you
have, like, all those bad sheep, black sheep, and do the wireless
claims like, one of the things is you have to be careful. You
see it all over. Place when they claim or advertise, they have
hundreds of growth factors in their exosomes. That is simply
not true. It's very unscientific, and it's just a
testament to their ignorance. There are roughly 50 growth
factors in existence at all, and our proteomic studies, for
instance, confirmed the presence of 46 of them, at least the
remaining might be present, but under the threshold of
detection. So all these claims are really a problem. The free
all of the leading companies in the sector, freeze drying, the
exosomes for the benefit of easy shipping and 10 shelf life, what
you're ending up with is exosomal debris, and not
exosomes. They can function as they should and could. And
worse, I have a slide on this where 5 billion exosomes feast
right result in 20 milligrams of some kind of powder that they
then dilute with some secret liquid. And I did the math so 5
billion exosomes by roughly three microgram and when you
have 20 milligrams in there, it means that 99.98% of the content
is actually not even exosomal debris. There's something else
with stabilizers, fillers, etc, and that's also a red flag to
me, because that's something you don't want to put on your skin,
you know, or into your body. You don't want to have legalizers or
these chemicals. So, so we take great pride in our product that
consider HDMI in scaling, and that's it. And if
you look at I never inject that stuff into your body, right?
Mike, like you would never want to inject the lay offline. No
way. Don't do that.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: Yes, thanks. Thanks for saying that outright,
because so many people out there don't do it. I see people doing
IV exosomes, and it makes me want to cringe, like, yeah, you
will just die of anaphylactic shock and Sep bacterial sepsis,
and God, God knows what's going through your bloodstream, too.
We did this
Unknown: electromicroscopy study to actually really check
diligently, and we, by now, have checked 10 competitors, like
the, you know, the more dominant ones in the market, and all of
the lyophilized exosome products out there do not contain single
exosome No,
Dr. Kay Durairaj: all you checked like 1817, or 18
different brands, right?
Unknown: Yeah, and no exosomes. I'd be furious if I was a
consumer and paid all that money and had nothing in my product
that was an exosome, yet labeled an exosome. And
Dr. Kay Durairaj: then so you guys are also testing other
things, besides just the picture of the electron microscopy,
you're also looking at biogenesis markers to show if
there's like, actual active RNAs present. Mike, do you
Unknown: want to take, kind of the proteomics analysis, a
little bit, kind of the some of the work we've done recently
with a company called Creative, creative Bio Labs.
Bio Labs, yeah, that was also for us, because, again, when,
when you talk about claims, we also proposed a generic list of
cargo, what an exosome typically consists of, and all the things
that are typically present and what they are relevant for and
good for. But we wanted to check our own exosomes for, you know,
actual presence of all these. So we did some rather elaborate, or
we're still in the process of doing more but elaborate
proteomic study, also lipidomics, metallomics and RNA
profiling. So we were keen to identify all the proteins that
we hope were present, and we confirmed, or we wanted to know,
how many growth factors are present in our exosomes. And I
mentioned that we have, like, at least 4650 known growth factors
present. We have over 250 cytokines that we identified,
and all the relevant RNAs. And this, of course, gives ourselves
confidence. I mean, we were confident in our product, but we
wanted to substantiate our confidence, also to actually
provide this kind of information to our customers, and make sure
that we go beyond wild claims to just promote a product. I think
everybody should deserves actually the product that they
are paying for and that they deserve. Actually, the promise
can be delivered of excellent therapy and therapeutics, both
the regenerative medicine market as well as in cosmetics and
esthetics,
Dr. Kay Durairaj: is. There a precise approach where we can
direct which micro RNAs are getting encapsulated and
delivered. Since we can get a, you know, 50 different growth
factors, a bunch of cytokines, I'm assuming that we would like
to have directed therapies where we want specific MRA fragments,
specific growth factors. And is there a danger in just throwing
the kitchen sink that you know Wharton's jelly works in the
baby, in the fetus, to go to the cells that need it specific
messaging. But do those do, those deliveries of so many
growth factors and products overwhelm the skin, or is it
misdirection? Is the skin getting messaging? Then belong?
That belongs to neural tissue and muscular tissue and nerve
tissue. That's
Unknown: a fantastic question. Um, so the good news is there's
no, no danger of any sort. It's, it's, at worst is like, you
know, you take too many vitamins, then you know,
whatever the body cannot use will just go through. And you
can, you can imagine that the same, that's the same for
exosomes. So exosome therapy and technology is still early on,
relatively early on, I wouldn't rule it out that down the road,
you might want to manipulate them in a certain way to
actually be more prone to do this, or more prone to do that,
especially when it comes to treating certain diseases. I
also am acutely aware of the pharma industry being very
interested in creating hybrid exosomes, where they use
exosomes as a carrier for certain small molecules that
they develop certain medications and so on. And that all makes
sense. That is, that is a little bit on the road, I would argue
for right now, the exosomes that we are providing, for instance,
they contain, like most of what you might be interested in, and
we see them as a universal tool. So we have seen them to be
successfully used treating hair, respiration conditions, skin
rejuvenation, Scar prevention and reversal. We have seen them
applied towards the treatment of certainly the cerebral palsy, MS
and many, many things more traumatic brain injury, and it's
always the same pain. It's always the same exosome and can
treat a variety of conditions and what I personally feel like,
it also makes sense, because within each cell of our body, we
have roughly 20,000 genes that are expressed to certain levels
that make cell function in a certain way. You know, it's
extremely complex. I gave up a long time ago to really get to
the bottom of it, because biology is just so complex that
you cannot figure it out in minute detail, therefore a more
holistic approach, like using the perfect exosome, if you
excuse me, using that term, using the perfect exosome that
provides everything an individual Cell might need to
fix itself is for me, already like a major milestone. Whether
we go ahead like, you know, personalize them in certain
ways, I wouldn't rule it out, but it might also not be
necessary find out there, Aaron,
Dr. Kay Durairaj: I have a question for you. So as an
esthetic provider, then what should I be asking my exosome
company for proof of in terms of purification, purity, sourcing,
reliability between batches. Are there some things that you want
us to ask when we're going up to the
Unknown: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for asking. Yeah. Let's keep
it simple, safety, quality, bioactivity, that's what we want
to know. So from a safety perspective, do you have a
certificate of conformity from a US Lab that there was all the
infectious diseases and sterility done? We always ship
that report with every mile, whether it's our cosmetic
topical or it's our regenerol company. So safety first, last
and always make sure there's a certificate conformity for all
the infectious diseases and sterility that was done on the
stem cells. Two, make sure the stem cells are of quality, so
that they were grown in that low passage. They should not be
grown more than four passages, otherwise they mutate. So
safety, then quality is really making sure that they're good,
good stem cell source. And then the last is, how do you ensure
that they're bioactive? Well, don't get a my offline one,
right? You want a product that comes with a nano site, 300 that
you have exosome particles. And. Transmission electro microscope
that shows your exosomes intact. This is legitimate exosome
sourcing. If you don't have safety, quality and bioactivity,
and that's confirmed by your distributor or your sales person
or manufacturer, then it's basically buying fool's gold.
Wow.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: And then tell me some brands that you think do
have the safety, quality and bioactivity.
Unknown: So I know the analysis so far, you have to start with
who manufactures stem cells? Yes, there's only three
Wharton's jelly stem cell manufacturers in the United
States left today, and one of them only sells to research
companies. The other is only in clinical trial. We're the only
commercial Wharton jelly medical grade stem cell manufacturer in
the United States. There are some in Costa Rica, Panama.
There used to be the main Wuhan Institute in China. But at this
point, we are the only commercially available. So if
you ask me, what product would you put on your pinpoint,
bleeding face, I would say only age zero. I can't recommend
another product fully from a full auditing perspective. Now
we have some more. The only products we tested where the
layoff lies. We wanted to get the heavy hitters, bad hitters,
out first. Now there is a company out of Pennsylvania.
It's that exosl bio company, right? Exosl bio, they at least
have a quality report. They show what they test for. I don't know
how many passages they do, but they do come from a perinatal
source, they do provide a certificate of quality. But
other than that, we've done extensive auditing, and the data
is not there for safety for 99% of the companies out there.
That's just a fact.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: Yeah, and for consumers listening just the
buyer beware that these products are cosmeceuticals, which means
they're no one looks at the ingredients, the safety profile
they're applied. Designed for topical skin use only, not for
injection microneedling only, not subcutaneous injections and
IV deliveries and all of that. And that includes for hair,
skin, body, everything. Because I don't think patients realize
that too,
Unknown: right? And I'm just concerned where we started the
exact oversight so exact stands for exosomes, auditing
compliance and testing members organization and to help
maintain the future of exosomes. Exosomes has an incredibly
bright future. The work we're seeing in delaying of
Alzheimer's, cardiac children's cerebral palsy, every area of
the body and the opportunity to regenerate. This is the future
of medicine, and we cannot afford for exosm companies in
here to ride a hype and destroy the name, destroy quality. So we
can't get started on that path. I don't want to happen in the
stem cell world. 20 years ago with Bucha and COVID, be right.
We have an opportunity for incredible future, and the
things that Mike and I have seen with patients is really so sci
fi, and if it wasn't real, it would just think that you're
dreaming. But we've seen amazing results that everyone will want
someday, and the only way we're gonna get that is if we protect
the name exosm.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: Can you walk us through one of your hero
products for Facial Esthetics, and what's how it works? What
kind of results we can expect?
Unknown: Yeah, having to thanks for asking. Before we got in the
industry, we wanted to do a clinical trial and understand
dose that's important to us, and we didn't see major clinical
trials working on dose. So we did 100 patient trial and
divided into three groups, post micro needling, three microning
sessions month apart, and they got 5 billion exosomes, 50 or
100 and we thought, Great, 100. We hope that wins. We're the
world's biggest manufacturer of exomes. We can do a huge dose
reality, 5 billion is fantastic. Dose you apply it topically
after microneedling or laser, reduces redness, improves skin
texture, glow, fine lines, wrinkles, you know, all the
things that we're really looking for. I love taking our exosomes,
and every day after exfoliating on the shower, I love to spritz
them on with an oxygen mister. It feels so good. I would always
use an oxygen mister because it comes on cold. So if you're
doing a microneedling treatment or laser, it feels great. And
instead of just dropping the excess guns on that are in
Saline once and rubbing it in, you get many applications,
because that fine mister. I love that. We've got a bunch of hair
studies going on right now. Hair is a complex field. We've got
all different ages, diseases that are immune health
conditions. But, you know, I would say, start using exosomes.
Drop them on every few days, right away. If you feel like
you're having some thinning hair, it's great for scalp
conditioning. And then we're in the front. Process of launching
an intimate tissue product, really, really setting
indications of, how do you improve vaginal atrophy? I
turned 40 in just, I think, eight days. So the perimenopause
conversation is, is big for me right now. And I as an engineer,
if I start getting scared of something, I really want to work
on it. So the product we're working on right now with them,
you know, postpartum and perimenopause, menopause is our
next gen and, like, what else we got, a lot of stuff in our
parent company, clinical trial on cardiac you know, do you name
it? Post
hydrogel? Yeah, the hydrogel, yeah, and preventing scar
formation or like, really, like, yeah, Scar prevention and also
scar reversal to some degree, decade old scars that got
microneedled and then treated with exosomes, and you see major
improvement, which is interesting, because the
reversal of scar tissue was always A dogma are considered
not to be possible at all. It's just not true, and it just goes
to show what the potential of true exosomes really are. I
mean, they can really they have the capacity for total
regeneration and repair, and can affect a replacement of scar
tissue with more functional tissue. Again, that's really
remarkable. And then we also working on a skincare line, but
we are doing that very carefully, because we find that
the ingredients and the quality and the sourcing of those
formulations has to match the quality standards of the
exosomes. So you don't just like use the random generic you know,
cream or something, and mix in some exosomes that just wouldn't
do them justice. So that's something we are working on on a
more scientific level. And I think that when you when you ask
what to watch out for, what red flags to avoid, you should
really vet the provider of your exosols. Many do. They
manufacture stem cells themselves, because if they
don't, they have no control over where those exosomes really come
from, what the quality is, etc. So that would be a red flag, and
we are deeply rooted in regenerative medicine. But I'm
not saying it only because of that fact that I would always
argue, no matter who you choose as a provider for your exosomes,
if they are not dabbling in regenerative medicine, they are
not doing their exosomes just and they are not providing the
real deal. Because all the exosomes we actually provide,
also for the cosmetics and esthetics market, are medical
grade to the highest bankers, because we feel it's important
and it's just right. And as Aaron pointed out, when you get
your face microneedled, it's basically a very big open wound,
and don't want to put anything on there. That's not medical
grade. So in this context, even though Cosmetics is highly
unregulated, I think they should both have the same standards of
quality and safety
Dr. Kay Durairaj: in terms of stem cells, then, Mike, are you?
Can you say a few words on that? Because that is also everywhere,
and also there's so many charlatans promoting fake
science. I wanted to maybe bring people some of your key ideas on
stem cells in terms of treatment options. Absolutely.
Unknown: Yeah, there are bad actors everywhere and similar
problem. Sometimes you get offered stem cell treatments
with the virus claims that treat any disease. And in theory,
that's That's true. I mean, you can actually address any kind of
conditional disease with the right kind of stem cell, and
then it's just about figuring out the route of application,
the right dosing, the frequency, and so on. And each person, each
patient, might have an individual response to it. So
that is not as trivial. There is the potential that you can treat
virtually every disease, but it is, again, very complex, and we
don't yet have any established benchmarks, but stem cell
therapy works, and that's, again, where we come from. We
originally created the stem cells to stem cell therapy, and
then we realized basically those exosomes in the day when I
started stem cell therapy, we thought we inject stem cell and
they replace tissue. That was not the case. Instead, they
threw what's called Paracrine signaling. And how will they do
that? They actually affect any benefits through secretion of
exosomes. Exosomes are actually containing everything you need,
and they're secreted from the from the stem cells and go to
the target cells. And there are the means by which the stem
cells operate. So they are experts in cell cell signaling
and communication. And you go, that's the next. Evolutionary
step of stem cell therapy for exosomes only.
I think it's really exciting for people who might be listening
though that are looking for stem cell treatment, is that as of
July 1, it looks like Florida's passing the bill for stem cells
treatment for wounds, pain and orthopedic use, you have already
passed a law and, um, there's at least one other so this is kind
of state by state rolling and you're in Florida, put in these
quality manufacturing regulatory standards, right? They, they
implemented it into the standard. So, um, as of July, 1,
for the first time ever in the state of Florida, Jonathan
market king, they can market, or the feta thick and market. So
that's a big win, win for our industry.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: That's amazing. Well, you guys, in
summary, I wanted to ask you a couple quick personal questions.
If you had to focus on one of the hallmarks of aging, is there
one track that you think is going to lead us to lead us to
the cancer, telomere, mitochondria, DNA repair, Mike
or Aaron, either one.
Unknown: Personally, I cannot claim this to be very
scientific, because right now, it's more conviction based on
bearings and what I've seen, but I do have a hunch that exosomes,
certain ways might be, comes some fountain of you. Yeah, we
have seen actual reversal of age. H, you know, issues like
hair restoration was the most obvious one, where a person in
their mid 40s got thinning hair, we microneedled and put some
exosomes on it was our patient zero. Was the husband of our
CMO, and after just one treatment, four weeks later, the
hair was visibly denser. But not only that, it was also darker.
He had dark hair, and keeping his age was salt and pepper, but
the patch that was treated was overall darker, and similarly,
our Chairman, Aaron's Father, he is in his mid 70s. Now, he had a
big bald spot on top of his head. And we treated that micro
needling plus exosomes. And after two treatments, he was
initially a little bit underworld because he saw some
baby hair growing in the middle of the patch, but he was hoping
for a little more. But truth be told, he also had a ball spot
for some 30 years, I think. And then when check those
photographs, we realized that the bald spot got much smaller.
It was half the size, basically. So it just goes to show that we
actually reverse time indeed, because that's how a bald spot
grows, right? It's thinning at first small ball catch, and then
it grows larger and larger. And treating it with exosomes, it
went the same way in reverse. So talking about rejuvenation,
overuse, buzz word, my sense, like we see that we can return
we can turn back the clock. We can reverse aging. So if you're
asking about the potential pixel for you know, a fountain of you,
yes, sir, I would think that we'll get there if we figure out
how dosage frequencies and so on, and boot up applications, I
think we will see remarkable things.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: Oh, that's so exciting. My goodness, if I
worked at age zero, I'd have that on all over we do. And
Aaron, what's your usual bioacting regimen for yourself
at home? Do you have a supplement stack that you take,
or what do you do in this day? Super healthy. Yeah,
Unknown: no. So I'm like Mike. I'm a age zero, exosome girl all
the way. I've never done Botox. I do micro needling, RF, laser.
But I want to see what the world looks like for me without
filler. I want to be that first person who is only using
exosomes. I'm 39 I want to see what I look like at 2075 I want
to be the person that has exosomes all day, every day,
missing them in we'll be inhaling them the nasal spray,
right? These are the products of the future, and I'm very lucky
that I get to live in the world where we see that. So
Dr. Kay Durairaj: how about orally? Is there an oral
supplement, exosome that repairs the GI tract yet?
Unknown: No, that's actually something that's being worked
on. Is timing the capsule to release at the right point.
Yeah, so cool, yeah. So suppositories. I mean, we're
talking about any way you can get an exosome in. Is of
interest to our company, right? Because we like to study all of
it. We like to see what's happening with the body. And
we're so lucky to have incredible doctors and
researchers around the world coming to us and saying, hey, I
want to study this. And as the world's largest producer of
exomes, we say, Absolutely, let's do it. So, Dr, k, if
there's anything
you want to study, oh my gosh, I have a little algorithm. I have
an email ready
for you. Got the product,
Dr. Kay Durairaj: we can bring it together. I would really like
to try it and do some really good studies myself. You guys
take anything for your own health, like NAD Are you taking
magnesium? Are you taking, hopefully, vitamin D, etc. We've
got a
Unknown: lot of the doctors that do a lot of combination work
with NAD and stem cells and exosomes. So, you know, they
feel like it's a great combo.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: Yeah, announcing, well, I have just
really enjoyed this last hour. It's flown by. But the knowledge
that we're giving to the esthetic community and the
people out there at large is so valuable, because there is so
much hype out there. And I think having a committee to really
look at these standards is really critical for like you
said, we want exosomes to reach point they become medical
therapies that will never happen if the FDA shuts it down for
Bosnia and some other zones, you know. So you guys, where can
people find you if they want to stay in touch with Aaron and
with Mike?
Unknown: Great question. We just got approved by forefront
dermatology, so you can find us there at any of their offices.
We are easy to purchase directly from in the United States. We've
got sales reps all over, but you can just reach out order online.
And then we're in Dubai, Pakistan, Lebanon, Qatar. We're
growing all over the place. Every day, new people are
finding us and saying, Oh, at last, we found a company that
checks all the boxes.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: I love that. And then you're going to stay at
the helm of the xsM exact oversight Bureau is really a
mission that I think people who want to market their exemption
voluntarily submit their data to you and like show that they're
so great. Hopefully, that's hopefully, that's the news.
Newest standards. Do you want to give out your Instagram handles
or company websites?
Unknown: Yeah, so where you can find us is R, E, S, I, L, I, E,
L, L, E, resilient, and we're growing, and we're excited to be
new players in this esthetics industry. So thank you so much
for for having us.
What a pleasure exosomes.
Dr. Kay Durairaj: Yeah, and Dr Mike, thank you for your
insights. You are a world class stem cell researcher at this
hour of having your attention, so
Unknown: we're lucky to have Mike is a game changer for us
all. Thanks
to you and your wonderful questions. Yes, thank
Dr. Kay Durairaj: you so much. We'll do it again soon. That's
it for now. Guys, don't forget to find me on my instagram. It's
Beauty by Dr, k, d, r, k, a, y, doing amazing things for
different faces. We know we have an injector teaching platform.
It's called Modern esthetic theory and artistry. Definitely
going to talk about these. I just know these and all the
standards and for our injectors out there, don't forget to come
visit me, fairvin la, and that's it for now, guys, stay
beautiful. You.