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[00:00:00] Hugh Brandt: This is the Intersection Faith Work and Life podcast hosted by Bob Varney and myself, Hugh Brandt. The intersection is committed to helping people see that discipleship means we live by faith in God, in all arenas of our lives all the time. If you want to hear more discipleship stories of people living by faith in every sphere of their lives, please invite others to listen to the Intersection Podcast.

[00:00:24] Hugh Brandt: Welcome and thanks for listening today to learn how John Beckett has learned to create godly culture in secular places. I. John was born in Eli, Ohio. He graduated from MIT in 1960 with a Bachelor of Science degree in economics and mechanical engineering. John joined his father in a small family owned manufacturing business in 1963, becoming president in 1965 upon the death of his father.

[00:00:49] Hugh Brandt: He became chairman of the RW Beckett Corporation and has helped guide the business to worldwide leadership in the manufacturer and sales of engineered components for [00:01:00] residential and commercial heating. John has long been active in both church and community related activities. He helped found Intercessors for America, a Natural National Prayer Organization in 1973.

[00:01:13] Hugh Brandt: He's a founding board member of the King's College in New York City. He's also a co-founder of Advent Industries, a manufacturing company that provides job training for those who are hard to employ. In 1999, the Christian Broadcasting Network named him Christian Businessmen of the Year. John received an honorary doctor of law degree from Spring Arbor University in 2002 and was named Manufacturing Entrepreneur of the Year by Ernest and Young in 2003.

[00:01:42] Hugh Brandt: His first book, loving Monday, succeeding in Business Without Selling Your Soul was published in 1998. Byner InterVarsity Press. The book is Beckett's account of how he has sought to practically integrate his faith and his work. I. It is currently available in 10 languages. His [00:02:00] second book, mastering Monday, a Practical Guide to Integrating Faith and Work was released in July, 2006.

[00:02:07] Hugh Brandt: He still lives there in Ohio with his wife of 47 years, Wendy. They have six children and 18 grandchildren. Welcome John. Thank you.

[00:02:17] Bob Varney: John we always like to start out learning something about your family and how they're doing and and then move into how it's related to your business. Why don't you go ahead and start out and tell us a little bit about you and Wendy and your family.

[00:02:30] John Beckett: I'd be glad to, and, with all respect you, some of that information you drew from is maybe a little bit dated. And in in, in regard to this particular question, we've now been married 62 years. Wow. And we've enjoyed a very. Special bond over those years, Wendy's been the delight of my life from meeting her as a young gal in her late teens at a remote location in Canada on a summer vacation.

[00:02:59] John Beckett: And that [00:03:00] summer romance turned into a long marriage. Amen. Bob, to your question, I I grew up in Elyria as you've indicated, and I. I was around a manufacturing environment really from the start because my dad who is also an engineer and by the way a veteran of the first war with the Canadian Army.

[00:03:23] John Beckett: Began a business in the basement of our home after working in the heating industry for a decade or so. And he just had that drive to. Do something different from the standpoint of technology. He picked a great time to do it right during the tail end of the Great Depression in 1937, and also on the cusp of the Second World War, which radically impacted most every business, including ours.

[00:03:54] John Beckett: We actually pivoted into the home installation business for several years just to keep our small. Company [00:04:00] afloat. And challenges have marked our experience from the beginning. I joined him I, after I graduated from from college I worked in the aerospace industry for a little over three years.

[00:04:15] John Beckett: And you say how do I go from that into a. A business in the heating industry. It was a large leap in some ways, but I, Wendy and I were at my parents' home for dinner one evening and just out of the blue, my dad said, could we chat for a little bit? Now that in itself was uncharacteristic, but out of, that next step of our chat together. He said, my business partner's going to retire. John, how'd you like to come to work for me? It was almost as casual as talking about the weather and I remember my response. It was unsuspected, but I said, I really haven't thought about that a lot, but it sounds good to me.

[00:04:55] John Beckett: When can we start? And wow. So that launched me into what [00:05:00] became a lifelong career. In the heating industry. And as you indicated in your earlier comments we had a. Fairly brief time working together. As I look back on it, it was just over a year and he passed away driving to work one morning.

[00:05:17] John Beckett: It was sudden because I'd thought at least I'd have a decade to work with him. He'd be the mentor, I'd be the understudy. But, he had a heart attack and and in his mid sixties, I was in my mid twenties. And so this was a radical adjustment for me. And it it set me on a course that was one that I never expected, but that, that, that was some of the.

[00:05:44] John Beckett: Early things that shaped my work career. Yeah, it's interesting when you begin to work with family and follow your dad and I guess your grandpa as well at, not in the same business, but a kind of lifestyle that's based on Jesus. One that's based on the [00:06:00] faith. I mean I'm I often wanted to have.

[00:06:02] John Beckett: My kids take over a company that I had a few different companies. And so I'm always jealous actually of someone who's got now three generations of people in the company. So I'm I like you to share a little bit about the influence. When I took a look at the Mission.

[00:06:19] John Beckett: By God's Grace, we will grow, relentlessly, improve, and passionately serve our customers and fellow employees. That's a real mouthful, but it's a wonderful mouthful, in terms of who you're serving. And I I saw a piece in your 75th year thing from your grandfather that said, if you want the people to think right, you must first adopt a standard that stands for the highest principles for honor in business, for just equitable treatment for all.

[00:06:48] John Beckett: I feel like those kinds of things. In your family seemed to have begun the shaping of the culture that, that you now have at the Beckett Company. Could you just go through some of that with us? Yeah. We are [00:07:00] influenced by things that we're not even particularly aware of at the time.

[00:07:05] John Beckett: That comment that you cited from my grandfather, we only happened to discover by accident. I. But I was so encouraged by it because I said there's a root that goes back to a person I never knew, but he had influence on my dad and his family. And so those ideas, I think really do help shape the culture if we'll allow them down through the generations, there are other factors. When I think about generations of Christians with the work I've done with crew and other ministries I've bumped into a number of people who have generational hi heritage as Christians. And everybody that I know that's the third or fourth generation Christian has really been lifted up by.

[00:07:53] John Beckett: By their relatives. Okay. And it just like you said about your grandfather, it wasn't something you knew directly [00:08:00] from him, but you knew that it impacted your dad and then it impacted you and I'm sure it impacts your kids. So it's a it's really such a joy, I think, to. To live in a Christian family over generations, and it has such an impact, but it's, I would certainly concur with that.

[00:08:20] John Beckett: I would like to just maybe correct the record from one standpoint, Bob, and that was that. I would characterize our family my, even my f my father as as a churchgoing family, but Uhhuh I had to go through some crises in my own life to come to the awareness of the importance of a personal relationship.

[00:08:46] John Beckett: With Jesus. And that actually happened in the work context. My dad's sudden passing was part of that. I had to draw on resources beyond myself. And interestingly that same year, [00:09:00] the Lord has his. His ways and means. We had a terrible fire in our company. It just about destroyed our entire facility.

[00:09:09] John Beckett: And I'd have to admit, I was a proud, pretty, highly trained engineer and these experiences really brought me to the end of myself. It was at that point that I really thrust myself. And into the care of the Lord, and I accepted him fully into my heart. So I honor the traditional heritage that I have.

[00:09:32] John Beckett: I long for that. I. Full development of the Christian faith that can only happen through a surrender to Jesus Christ. As you both know to be normative. And I believe it is with our children and their children. All 18 grandchildren. I wanna draw that distinction and not just, presume as much as I honor that heritage, there was a point of departure where everything changed for me. No that's very [00:10:00] well done. Very well said. Because there's nothing quite like a personal relationship with Christ, and at the same time the foundation of knowing right and wrong and having some idea about those is still a very valuable foundation which seems to have been in our country.

[00:10:17] John Beckett: Over a couple hundred years. And it's the foundation seems to be crackling the, these days. And it's it's a challenge, I think, for those of us as Christians to keep pressing forward in the midst of a world around us that's being less than what your grandfather experienced It seems i. How does that help, or how does that, how did that challenge you in the beginning parts as you accepted Christ and began thinking about I guess maybe one of the questions is when did you begin thinking about your responsibility of adding a culture to your company? It's a good place to start.

[00:10:55] John Beckett: Thank you. And again, with all due respect to what I inherited in terms of a very [00:11:00] principled dad and principle context when I saw the influence that biblical truth, I. Could have on how we would shape our company and its culture. I really began very intentionally trying to integrate these two together.

[00:11:20] John Beckett: In fact, it's interesting, Bob, that at various points. I had the idea that if I were really going to serve God, and this was both before I became a believer and after I, it needed to be in some kind of church related work. And so the first thing that's a, I heard that's a normal response for lots of people.

[00:11:41] John Beckett: Yeah. And it's it's a dilemma. Which in a way was resolved when I was just really trying to seek the Lord for whether I should stay in business as I understood it. Or now being a freshly amended believer do something that was [00:12:00] really important. And I.

[00:12:02] John Beckett: I actually felt I had a word of guidance at that point, which was pretty profound. Ah and if I can paraphrase what I believe I heard, John, I've called you to business and I want you to do it with all your heart. Now I also remember my response to that impression I had it was along the lines that.

[00:12:23] John Beckett: If you are indeed calling me to the workplace, I'm going to do it not only with all my heart, but in ways that will honor you. So there were some decision making there that helped provide the context for how I would lead. And so when you. Cite the the vision that you did. There's a whole lot behind that in terms of our endeavoring to build a culture.

[00:12:52] John Beckett: That would honor the Lord. And we were small at the time. Yeah. When I got involved with the company, we had about 12 employees. And so part of [00:13:00] the overlay here was that we were experiencing growth. We're now 1200 employees and we're in multiple countries, and we had a context for growth, but growing in a way that would honor this.

[00:13:13] John Beckett: Culture that I just concluded was a must. Yeah. As far as how I would lead. It's interesting how God works in different people's lives. I hadn't realized that you had that experience. I actually had a similar one. I, I was a serial entrepreneur for about 25 years, and in the middle of that I got bored and decided to buy some real estate and built some commercial buildings.

[00:13:33] John Beckett: And, this was around 1980 when the US was having great difficulty with inflation. Prime was 20, which is crazy. I remember those days and I'm sure you do. And the Lord spoke to me and in much the same way he spoke to you, the question to me was Bob. Did you ask me before you started the project?

[00:13:52] John Beckett: And I remember thinking, no, why would I do that? And we've got this terrible disconnect and it's still rampant in most [00:14:00] Christian circles, that somehow the ordinary work that we do isn't a part of the kingdom of God. So how, how did that affect other people? When you began thinking like that?

[00:14:12] John Beckett: I discovered that people in every aspect of business culture really want certain things. They want the practice of integrity. They want excellence. If we go. To the store and buy a product. We don't want it to be made shoddily so people have a high premium on things that are done well. We believe that out of the biblical concept, we have a different attitude toward people, that we profoundly respect them, right?

[00:14:42] John Beckett: Regardless of station or position. And so one of our core values is profound respect for the individual. And we tried to adopt language. That would reach broadly across our organization and actually provide the basis for our being able to unpack that [00:15:00] more deeply and talk about why why those things are important to us and how they benefit everybody in the organization.

[00:15:08] John Beckett: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's great. And it's the interest in people. Is I think one of the foundational parts, because God's interested in us, we therefore should be interested in anybody who is close to have us having responsibility for them. So it's it's fun to hear you talk about that.

[00:15:28] John Beckett: It, and it's it's a common key. But once again, there are what do you, what have you learned to do? To help other people who are running. They're good people, they're running good companies and yet they're missing something. How would you characterize what they're missing? Often the answer to that question comes down to whether they've really anchored their faith in the Lord.

[00:15:56] John Beckett: And I feel that as a believer it's not [00:16:00] only an obligation but a privilege to be able to share that more broadly. I. Now how you do that how you try to influence others is to me it's something that really needs to be guided by the Holy Spirit. There isn't a formula and approach, and it should never be right minimized in stature and importance, but the concept of being salt and light.

[00:16:23] John Beckett: Really has its application in the workplace because we're thrust into an alien culture in many ways. Yes. And yet, I think the Lord provides pathways for us to get access into the hearts and lives of people by being his kids and by representing him, by bringing that light the truth salt into whatever environment that we're thrust into.

[00:16:49] John Beckett: And this has been part of the joy of walking as a believer in the workplace. It's seeing that. Influence wherever the pathway is [00:17:00] open to touch the lives of other people. Yeah. And it is amazing how much you can actually touch the lives of people. And they're, they're in the workplace, so they may or may not show up at a church somewhere.

[00:17:14] John Beckett: And yet the Lord's influence is easily spread. From many places. One one of the things that we do in our course to help believers come along to understand how important it is to engage in kingdom work. Okay. And we start out with living in exile. What's it life in this sort of, as you said, this alien world that we seem to live in and whether we're off in some country where it's illegal to talk about Jesus or whether it's in a place like the United States.

[00:17:44] John Beckett: That feeling is around. Okay. And understanding that is, I think, critical because that then gives you insight as you've already explained about how you take care of your people and the kinds of things that you can say to them. And you [00:18:00] also mentioned the Holy Spirit. We talk about that a lot too, because without that guidance, you don't have a book.

[00:18:06] John Beckett: It's exactly right. You wrote a book. It's a wonderful book. There's lots of books. Okay. I. The day-to-day stuff is in response to the Holy Spirit. As I think about loving Monday which is just a lovely entrance into the books that we have on the workplace, it really is.

[00:18:22] John Beckett: I know somewhere in probably 2012 or so, I began looking back at who's been writing on this stuff, and I found Oz goodness, and I found you way back in 1998. That's a hard company to keep by the way. I have great respect for Oscar. Goodness. For then decades, if not a hundred years as Christians, we haven't been talking about.

[00:18:50] John Beckett: Christ in the workplace. And what does that mean? It certainly means telling people about Jesus from time to time, but it means so much more in terms of the [00:19:00] love you have expressed to the people that, that work for you, to the vendors to the customers. All of that. What was it that caused you to.

[00:19:10] John Beckett: To actually pin loving Monday. If I can just set the stage leading up to it. Okay. We found ourselves not only growing rapidly establishing some additional businesses, having more of a international presence and what we were doing in terms of integrating faith. And work came to the attention of a, b, C news.

[00:19:37] John Beckett: Now we weren't alone in doing this, I think, of what Chick-fil-A was doing and Interstate Battery and others, but the network asked if they could do a story on us. And I was, frankly, pretty reluctant at first. I'd had some bad experiences with the media, but I said yes, and they did, a story on us, the result of something like 15 [00:20:00] hours of video that they captured in our place.

[00:20:03] John Beckett: Wow. Talking to our employees, talking to suppliers, customers. And if you can liken it to a really thorough medical exam, it was like that. This was compressed into a four minute news piece that aired on World News Tonight with Peter Jennings. The correspondent, Peggy Wayer called me that evening and said they had more positive response to that news piece than anything in the history of the evening news.

[00:20:29] John Beckett: Oh, praise God. Wow. That really got my attention. And, sometimes I think. The secular media, if I can use that term, is more attuned to some of the trends that are happening in culture than we are. And so this in some ways was at the early stages of the whole integration of faith and work as we know it today.

[00:20:52] John Beckett: So they did this news story. I was encouraged by by a book agent to write about it. He [00:21:00] subsequently bailed on me. I wrote him a letter saying, thanks for getting me off the dime. I know you don't wanna publish this. But anyway, it was a lengthy process ar an arduous self searching process.

[00:21:13] John Beckett: But when that book came out and thanks for your reference to it, it was really somewhat seminal in giving identity to the modern movement of ING faith and work and, hugh, if I may. It's now in 20 languages. It's really become, broadly distributed as in some cases almost a textbook. I was talking to a young businessman just the other day who said I read this in your second book, mastering Monday every year I have for years, and I use these concepts to help guide my business.

[00:21:47] John Beckett: And so I'm grateful there was an opportunity to start codifying some of the things that we found to be most important, and basically to tell the story. But it all got unlocked by a reporter wanting to do a [00:22:00] story on us. Yeah, that's neat. That's exciting. And it's interesting that God works in that way.

[00:22:06] John Beckett: When we had Barna do a study for us on the different spheres of society, I. And the business sphere where all the retail is, all the manufacturing is, everything you can think of is in there. And of course, it's the part that keeps any community or city functioning. But then you've got government and family and media and religion and arts and entertainment.

[00:22:26] John Beckett: And the smaller ones, like the media and like the arson entertainment are typically the ones that are a little bit out ahead of where the culture is. The government typically lacks behind, so it's neat to hear you say. That the media was attentive to this, and it's just because they're watching.

[00:22:45] John Beckett: People re responded obviously to that four minute clip on a, B, C, and it and it began something too because over the next few years cover of Fortune Magazine Business Week, other major publications [00:23:00] were not just featuring this topic, but featuring it in cover stories. And so they were onto something and, people, the likes of Billy Graham and Henry Blackaby began talking about how this was really God's heart to yes, work through the workplace to extend his kingdom.

[00:23:22] John Beckett: And I think we were seeing the early stages of a movement. Gannis has certainly been one of the great thought leaders in this. I love his book, the Call, for example, right? And it it's now moved into a dimension that I could not have possibly imagined. Back there in the nineties. Just in terms of the numbers of organizations, the publications, the groups that meet together to strengthen one another.

[00:23:51] John Beckett: It's it's a remarkable phenomena and I think that the core of it is the idea that people really want meaning in their [00:24:00] lives. And if they can't have meaning in their work something's really missing. As you point out, even if a person does go to a church service that's maybe an hour and a half a week we're together with our folks for 40, 45 hours a week.

[00:24:13] John Beckett: And the opportunities that we have just from the sheer time that we spend together is very heavily leveraged in terms of the workplace. Yeah. When hug and I first began working on this back around 2012, 13 I. We, we noticed that there were even at the time, a couple hundred little organizations in this faith and workspace.

[00:24:36] John Beckett: Okay. And it's gotten larger there's no doubt about it. But one of the questions that disturbs me actually is, the media noticed a lot of people, noticed a lot of people getting on board. And yet the church, per se, has had, seems to have had great difficulty in. Being able to bring that message so that you not only hear it at [00:25:00] work, you also hear it in the church.

[00:25:02] John Beckett: Do you have any good ideas as to how we make that better? Th thanks for how you asked the question. I don't want to be critical of the church in any way, but, i, in my experience, people who are in the pastorate to a large extent have no direct experience with the workplace, even though that's where their folks are spending most of their time.

[00:25:29] John Beckett: And so I. You've asked a practical question, and I think one of the things that we can do is try to build those bridges. I'd like to have pastors come into our workplace and walk them through and let them see what we're doing. They'll find some of their folks there and they can greet them. But just to realize that the.

[00:25:49] John Beckett: The workplace can be an extension of their ministry. What they're doing is setting the foundation for how we walk as believers, but if [00:26:00] we can draw the link between the place where that. Plays out day to day, then I think that's a vital connection. So there are things that, that we can do. But I agree with you, Bob, that the golf is wide.

[00:26:13] John Beckett: And I don't know all the reasons, but I think that's one of them. Yeah. And I think that's a great suggestion. I really do. I used to bring people into my work as well. I don't know. I don't think. Any of the stuff that we teach actually, that we specifically encourage that and we should.

[00:26:30] John Beckett: I think that's a, I think that's a very good suggestion. Yeah. The other side of this, you've got the church, but then you've got the just the education of calling. Okay. It's one thing to have a culture. That, that honors God and people in that culture feel it. Okay.

[00:26:49] John Beckett: Do you find that the folks in in the CCA companies. Actually recognize what they're doing as a calling from God. I'm hoping the Christians do, but as as that comes to [00:27:00] other people, they'd be, I think they begin to understand well that this isn't because of God. What you've talked about.

[00:27:06] John Beckett: We have people who have been with us 30 years, 40 years in some cases 62 years, a long time and I don't, I tend to view people as volunteers today. They can be doing lots of other things, many jobs available, but if a person senses that they're there for a purpose, if there's some larger value.

[00:27:31] John Beckett: In, they're investing their lives in a particular place of work, then whether they'd use the term calling or not, I think they feel that they're they're assigned and they're there, there's a reason why they're in that particular setting. So I just, I love to interact with some of our longer term employees.

[00:27:50] John Beckett: And I realized that this is a big part of their lives. Their social networks are established there. They walk through [00:28:00] challenges and trials and see the support of their fellow employees. And so we have that concept of community that's playing out in ways that I think maybe a lot of church pastors would envy.

[00:28:12] John Beckett: And it's just because this is where we rub shoulders. This is where we do life together. Yes. Do you do anything explicitly to help people understand that it's a calling and it's actually from God? Did there ways that you move that conversation into an explicit conversation about God and Jesus?

[00:28:32] John Beckett: I think in your question is also a challenge because that's something that we can always do better. Do more. Yeah. But one of the things that happens when you set the cultural tone of an organization is that you give people the liberty to be themselves. And yes, among believers, that is an important context because there's a freedom [00:29:00] to talk about the things that are important to them.

[00:29:02] John Beckett: So it's not just a top down thing. It becomes organic when people feel the liberty to say, this is. This is what makes me tick. I walked through our employee lounge just last week and I saw two fellows talking. There was a Bible on the table and I knew what they were doing, but they were talking about things, the Lord.

[00:29:26] John Beckett: A few months earlier, I was there later in the evening and I saw 15 people come out of a meeting room. And they had smiles on their faces. What were they doing? They were having a Bible study on the Book of John. But it was organic. It was not something that was being formally led. It was something that people had the freedom and liberty to do.

[00:29:47] John Beckett: So that to me is an attestation. Of the culture being freed in a way to to see the gospel flourish. I just take real delight in that. So yes, there's some things that we can [00:30:00] do from the top down but mostly it's setting the tone and then giving people the opportunity to just be themselves.

[00:30:07] John Beckett: So we have this one mix of believers and pre believers. And that's the way it should be. Yes, indeed. Indeed. Yeah. And it's I think nailing the notion of freedom to be who you are is in fact a really important one. And it is organic and it spreads around the company. And I hadn't fully appreciated that.

[00:30:29] John Beckett: With, I had a telecommunications company for a while and I, that was the one, the first company I had after God asked me this question about did I pray with about him, then that's when I suddenly realized that it's all about God, right? My deal going into it was said, okay, God, you and me I have nobody else to go talk to about this.

[00:30:48] John Beckett: So we're gonna figure out how to do this. And I ended up doing a sale to a public company. Which got a lot of the people moving up to New England, which is where the parent company came [00:31:00] from. But some people stayed down here in, in my area and a decade later someone decided to to actually have a reunion.

[00:31:09] John Beckett: And there were about 40 folks left still in the area. And one of the gals that I she was wonderful. She was my customer service lady. She did a great job. She cared about the customers just like we tried to get to, to happen. She cared about the product, all the things that, that you do in honoring God.

[00:31:27] John Beckett: And yet she didn't wanna talk about the Lord. Okay? I actually never had a conversation with her directly about that. Here I am at a reunion, 10 years after the the sale of the company. She comes running over to me and she said, Bob, you'll believe this. I'm a Christian. Oh my. And I thought, wow, I'm special.

[00:31:48] John Beckett: Yeah. What happened? But it's the organic nature of this. What happened immediately at the sale, the freedom was taken away, just like you talked about. [00:32:00] So it wasn't just that I was missing everybody else in the company who was a Christian, I. It did not any longer feel the freedom to be all of who they are.

[00:32:11] John Beckett: Yeah. And it affected the whole culture. And Linda noticed and began to say what happened, what disappeared, and it was the freedom to be who you are and in particular, to be a Christian. To bring God in with you, so it's just critically important and I wish there were ways that we could get all the pastors that I know to feel that like you and I feel that.

[00:32:37] John Beckett: Yeah. I the analogy of seed and the soar comes to mind too, and I think what you've just described, Bob, was the fruit. Of sowing seeds, some of which you may not have even been aware of if you're in leadership, I've observed that people are always watching they're watching the body language, they're listening to the words, [00:33:00] but they're gleaning and you never know when the things that you say or the example you set.

[00:33:07] John Beckett: Is shaping the direction of a person's life. So I think that's why the scriptures talk about, be careful how you walk, because it has repercussions for good or bad. Yeah. Yeah. It does. It does. Yeah. It's the part that I really would love to have everybody who's a Christian kind of understand that because so many Christians not in an environment like your company.

[00:33:32] John Beckett: They don't know that it can happen. They don't actually know that you could bring your whole self to work and en and engage in whatever conversations seem natural. This is not about proselytizing directly. This is about living life with other people who get to see who you are and then they begin to understand why you're that way.

[00:33:54] John Beckett: Bob, I think. First of all, everybody has a [00:34:00] story. Yep. And we can learn a lot just by chatting with people about their journey just as you are here, but yeah in the day to day. And then I've also observed that everybody is going through challenges without exception. Now they may be buried, but they're cho challenges with children or challenges with finances or challenges with health?

[00:34:25] John Beckett: On and on. Yeah. So these are almost like points of entry. Yeah. Where we can start through listening ears and empathy. I was walking through the plant just the other day and I noticed one of our executives, a woman who we just greatly value. I. Just from her appearance seemed to be down and I should have stopped and said something at the point I was going somewhere.

[00:34:53] John Beckett: I didn't, but I circled back the next day and I, her name is Cheryl. I just said, Cheryl, [00:35:00] it. It looks like you're carrying a heavy burden right now. And it just unfolded mother and latter stages of life and just moved into hospice and difficulties with the health of her husband. And it was just precious actually to process where she was. In the moment. And I think this is it is just, it's one more example of how, we can connect with each other along the way as Jesus Yes. Along the way. Things that happened as you're going going through life and and the, I love your reference to intersection as a major theme, but this is what's happening.

[00:35:42] John Beckett: We can almost imagine how the brain with all its interconnections, and that's what. Happens in the body of Christ too. We have, yeah. Yeah. We have neurons flowing and we have synapses that carry these from one place to the other. And thi this is the body of Christ at work, and [00:36:00] I I think it's folly to somehow think that shouldn't be happening in, in our employment.

[00:36:06] John Beckett: Yeah. And you talk about every, everybody has stories. There's lots of stories. Hugh I'd like you to comment, if you don't mind, we're, we talk about story a lot. We talk about biblical stories, but we also talk about personal stories and how wonderfully impactful they are. Hugh.

[00:36:23] Hugh Brandt: John, we we really emphasize stories because we believe that stories change lives and we wanna follow the example of our Lord.

[00:36:30] Hugh Brandt: Jesus told lots of stories and many of them, we call them parables, and yet it's through stories that we can relate to what God is saying to us, how he's wanting us to live. And so we talk a lot about not just sharing the story of how you. Came to follow the Lord, but also stories about how you live life and what you've been doing with us today.

[00:36:50] Hugh Brandt: You just told us some stories about engaging with Cheryl and the fact you noticed. And it's, we remember the stories and then we remember the truth behind the [00:37:00] stories, and I think the stories open us up to the truth and we then respond to the truth. But John, I just, maybe another story from you, if I may, Bob, is you're describing a kingdom company.

[00:37:12] Hugh Brandt: I, I love you how you've been describing it, but as you look back over all these years, if you could do it over again, would you do anything differently than you have been doing? Would you emphasize something more? Would you add something else in as you are describing this kingdom company that you've been a part of?

[00:37:31] John Beckett: I would seek more opportunities for the heart of the gospel message itself to be spread. We can be deceived, I think by things that are a representation of the heart of the gospel, but are absent the core. I think many of the things that we believe and hold most dearly probably can be practiced in most every country and [00:38:00] culture in the world.

[00:38:01] John Beckett: I know that you do a lot internationally. And, it needs to go beyond that because there's a transition point, which by God's grace I experienced myself. The Bible uses dramatic terms. It's going from death to life. It's going from darkness to light. It is going from captivity to freedom and these transition points.

[00:38:27] John Beckett: Are vital if somebody is going to truly get on a new path and not simply be a nice gal, a nice guy, and when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus and I just love the story, but Nicodemus was commenting on. On the amazing things that Jesus was doing, he said, you must be sent by God.

[00:38:48] John Beckett: What Jesus said in response to me was profound. He just he cast all that aside and said, you must be born again. Yeah. Wow. [00:39:00] And so he began unpacking what that looked like for Nicodemus. Billy Graham God bless him brought this emphasis in such a clear, profound and simple way. And so long answer to your comment, but I would aspire to see life not only influenced, but transformed in a greater way than we've seen.

[00:39:25] John Beckett: So I apologize to the Lord if I have missed him or been preoccupied, but that's my heart. It all changes at the cross. Yes. No, that's absolutely right. Yeah. And I think that when Peter says that we're supposed to be able to give a response for the hope that is within us sometimes we neglect to see that opportunity.

[00:39:46] John Beckett: One of the, one of the things I often say is that, people always say he was in the right place at the right time. That notion there's opportunities everywhere all the time. And for the person who's in the right place at the right time, it's because he [00:40:00] knows what opportunity looks like and when it shows up, he's, he says, okay, I want this.

[00:40:03] John Beckett: The same thing is true for the gospel, this notion of being able to give a response for the hope that's in us. And it's also looking at body language. We are losing a lot of that stuff with Zoom with texting. A study that I quote many times from decades ago actually is how much of your information, your words, what's the percentage of communication is words, tone of voice and body language.

[00:40:31] John Beckett: And the numbers go like this, eight. 37 and 55. Incredible. That's incredible. Yeah's. It's incredible, but one has to pay attention. To the head, to the eyes, to the smile, to the frown, to, I mean that, that's most of what you pick up is that body language piece. And one of the things we're losing, I think, in our society is that whole.

[00:40:58] John Beckett: Personal interconnection. I pray we're getting [00:41:00] back to it. I think the initial flow of this digital wonder has been exciting. But I do think we're coming back. I was reading a book the other day called restoring Conversation which is a great title necessary. Too bad it went away, yeah. But it's a part of our ability as Christians. To see, to understand, to have empathy with someone we're interacting with. I think what you're putting your finger on here, Bob, it's so important, but it really is the gift of language and words are much more than what comes out of our mouths.

[00:41:38] John Beckett: This is what distinguishes us from the rest of God's creation. Oh yeah, really? And so if we're deprived of that. As we are if our focus is simply on the screen and the keyboard. Yep. I hadn't heard those percentages, but that's pretty profound. We need to be together. Yeah. We need to be in, in community.

[00:41:59] John Beckett: [00:42:00] Yeah. You get on a subway car or a bus there's all kinds of visual interconnections occurring with people that you'll never meet. I'm, I I'm kinda shocked sometimes by the process that I'm going through and trying to see another person who I might just see for two minutes between stops in airport terminals, and yet this is how we're wired.

[00:42:28] John Beckett: We're wired to be connected to other people. Yeah. One of the things that, that Hugh introduced to us is a book called The Other Half of Church. I. And it's actually the right and left brain, and we're so informationally organized that most people in the western world, especially live in the left brain, they live with all this information and all of the right brain stuff where the emotion is, where the the same thing that causes you to take your hand off the fire.

[00:42:56] John Beckett: Before you think about it, is the thing that causes [00:43:00] you to notice somebody else before you think about it, bob I hope you're right in what you're assessing, that the pendulum may be swinging back a little bit. I'll just share with you that there's a counterforce with the whole artificial intelligence area that complicates this process because, we are moving so much toward the universality of information and at the same time diminishing the capacity for for the kind of thought that conversations require. And so it's a scary time in some ways. I believe there are tremendous po possibilities that are being unlocked through artificial intelligence, but we must be mindful.

[00:43:48] John Beckett: I. Of how the basic art of communication and conversation may diminish as part of this process. Yeah. Point you like stories, Hugh, [00:44:00] and so I'll just throw one out there. Was the story of somebody who was interviewing for a job and. He could not in the interview find the words that he needed to communicate what he thought.

[00:44:12] John Beckett: And he realized that so much of what he had done as a student was interfacing with artificial intelligence. And so he was being deprived, of brain cells or something that were necessary in that moment. To talk about why he was interested in working for this company and he failed because he had been pulled aside so much by technology.

[00:44:38] John Beckett: It became his enemy in some ways.

[00:44:41] Hugh Brandt: I will not forget that story. There you go. Wow.

[00:44:44] John Beckett: Yeah. Powerful. We're running near the end of our time here, John. And I recall when I was at your office some years ago, I. You had a very interesting tree in the middle of your building. Is it still surviving there?

[00:44:57] John Beckett: It's fascinating that you would circle back. [00:45:00] How many years ago was it, Bob? Maybe 20 or 25 years. Oh, something like that. Yes. That tree is still flourishing. And in mentioning it I was thinking that maybe in some ways it's a metaphor for what we're talking about. Briefly, the story is that we were expanding our facility.

[00:45:16] John Beckett: We wanted to do it. Toward the center and not toward the periphery. And so as part of that process we dug a hole to plant a FCUs tree, big tree. And we found an underground stream. So this tree is 40 years old now. We prune it a lot. But it has never been watered because the root is down in the stream.

[00:45:38] John Beckett: And so it's become a centerpiece of this atrium area a garden within a company. And it's very special, but I think there is maybe some metaphorical significance to it. It has a life source. That's invisible and we see the flourishing of the [00:46:00] tree. But its roots are down in, in an underground stream.

[00:46:04] John Beckett: So maybe that in a way is a special representation of how we're wanting to. Walk as believers and influence others in the ways that he designed. Yeah. Yeah. And the Lord wants us to be rooted in living waters, it's a great picture. I'll I'll never forget that picture.

[00:46:23] John Beckett: It's a wonderful picture. So John, thank you for being with us. Is there anything else that you'd like to add as we close out today? It's really been a refreshing experience to exchange these concepts and these ideas. I think what you're doing is vital because you're helping shift thought toward God's design.

[00:46:46] John Beckett: Yes, we only touched on the kingdom of God. It's a vast topic, but Jesus instructed us to pray thy kingdom come. Yes, thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven. And [00:47:00] so there's something in that grand. Design the architecture of heaven that is accessible to us, and we want to bring it to Earth in whatever practical ways we can.

[00:47:12] John Beckett: I that's part of our mission. And the more we understand the kingdom, the more we can find ways to apply it and our time, space world. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you. Hugh, I think it'd be appropriate for us to to end in prayer as well. So if you could just thank the Lord for us understanding some pieces of his kingdom on this earth and thanking John.

[00:47:35] Hugh Brandt: Yes, I. Father, thank you for this hour we've had with one of your servants, one of your followers, John Beckett, years of walking with you as he said through trials and tribulations, and yet he has seen your blessings, your grace. Thank you for his story and through his life and his family's life and many others that lives have been trained, changed, and [00:48:00] thank you for the work.

[00:48:01] Hugh Brandt: Thank you for that work in itself is so important, how it's contributed to the flourishing of so many people, so many countries, so many cities. But father, thank you. Pray that this message would be heard by many and it would bring transformation to their lives that they would see that your kingdom is so large and your calling us to live out your kingdom in the work we do every day.

[00:48:23] Hugh Brandt: Thank you for this time. In Jesus name, amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.

[00:48:28] John Beckett: Thank you. Thank you, John. It's been a real pleasure being with you. Likewise, thank you.

[00:48:33] Hugh Brandt: Let me just close with saying thanks to all our listeners for joining us on this fifth Intersection Faith Work and Life podcast with John Beckett. We ask you to go to our website, c project global.com, or to LinkedIn or to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcast and subscribe to our podcasts.

[00:48:51] Hugh Brandt: And if you have found our podcast helpful. Please let us know through our review. Again, thank you, John for joining us today

[00:48:59] John Beckett: a [00:49:00] privilege. Thank you.