00:00:11:24 - 00:00:12:06 Hello.

00:00:12:06 - 00:00:16:20 Welcome back to M&A Zing, the weekly podcast for acquisition entrepreneurs,

00:00:17:01 - 00:00:21:07 search funders and holdco builders in the UK, Europe and beyond.

00:00:21:09 - 00:00:25:11 Today we have a very special episode featuring the founding partners

00:00:25:11 - 00:00:30:00 of a brand new search fund in the UK 22 Capital Partners.

00:00:30:02 - 00:00:33:02 We're joined by Andrew Napier, a seasoned finance professional

00:00:33:02 - 00:00:36:02 with extensive leadership experience across diverse sectors.

00:00:36:06 - 00:00:39:02 Alongside him is Avani Mineur, a serial entrepreneur

00:00:39:02 - 00:00:42:04 with over 25 years of experience in digital transformation

00:00:42:09 - 00:00:46:17 who has herself successfully acquired and scaled businesses using her own capital.

00:00:46:19 - 00:00:52:16 Both are MBA grads from Cambridge Judge, which we'll get on to in a short while.

00:00:52:20 - 00:00:57:07 But together they've embarked on the journey to acquire and lead UK semi.

00:00:57:09 - 00:01:00:00 Andrew Avani welcome to the amazing.

00:01:00:00 - 00:01:00:24 Thank you.

00:01:00:24 - 00:01:01:24 Great to be here.

00:01:01:24 - 00:01:04:14 Likewise. Great to have you with us.

00:01:04:14 - 00:01:08:13 We have crossed paths a few times since you launched your fund

00:01:08:15 - 00:01:12:03 and I think in the corridors of INSEAD recently.

00:01:12:03 - 00:01:14:09 So you're an Airbus.

00:01:14:09 - 00:01:15:10 I think as well prior to that.

00:01:15:10 - 00:01:18:10 So you're taking on all of the business schools around Europe.

00:01:18:15 - 00:01:23:23 Let's get into your kind of motivation first and foremost, shall we?

00:01:24:00 - 00:01:29:14 Andrew Significant career in corporate finance, large teams, big transformations.

00:01:29:16 - 00:01:34:00 If any entrepreneur through and through

00:01:34:02 - 00:01:38:15 actively acquired scaled.

00:01:38:17 - 00:01:41:17 What attracted you both

00:01:41:17 - 00:01:44:17 to acquisition, entrepreneurship and ETA?

00:01:44:21 - 00:01:46:05 In this sense?

00:01:46:05 - 00:01:49:15 I was always drawn to building or whatever,

00:01:49:17 - 00:01:52:12 whether it's business products or teams.

00:01:52:12 - 00:01:58:05 I love to grow those and it brings all of that together and that's

00:01:58:07 - 00:02:00:23 what really attracted me to it.

00:02:00:23 - 00:02:04:24 And after multiple ventures, I wanted to take a longer term view

00:02:05:01 - 00:02:08:15 and finding a greater for me that will bring where I can bring

00:02:08:15 - 00:02:14:06 in that digital transformation knowledge that I have and growing it to sustainably.

00:02:14:08 - 00:02:17:14 It allows me to have that

00:02:17:15 - 00:02:21:07 in a more impacting and responsible way.

00:02:21:09 - 00:02:25:18 Andrew Yeah, for me, I guess it's

00:02:25:20 - 00:02:28:08 in the title really, the entrepreneurship it

00:02:28:08 - 00:02:33:06 through acquisition I guess is bringing together that entrepreneurial drive

00:02:33:08 - 00:02:36:24 that I've sort of got inside me and I have the structure.

00:02:36:24 - 00:02:40:08 So I completely need to, to the ETA in the search

00:02:40:08 - 00:02:43:22 for my role before doing the Electric Cambridge.

00:02:43:24 - 00:02:48:15 And so I have a really compelling for me and

00:02:48:17 - 00:02:51:14 what particularly stood out about it, because you could have gone

00:02:51:14 - 00:02:52:19 the 0 to 1 route.

00:02:52:19 - 00:02:56:17 Ivana, you have previously in your career started something from scratch.

00:02:56:22 - 00:03:01:02 Was that experience sufficient motivation to think,

00:03:01:02 - 00:03:04:20 Actually I can make a bigger impact if I pick something up

00:03:04:20 - 00:03:06:18 that's already established? Yes, Yes.

00:03:06:18 - 00:03:09:00 Even the first company was already established.

00:03:09:00 - 00:03:10:23 It had good revenue coming in.

00:03:10:23 - 00:03:12:07 And I did pick it up

00:03:12:07 - 00:03:16:07 because the owner didn't know how to proceed or go further with it.

00:03:16:09 - 00:03:19:02 But now with the knowledge I have of running that

00:03:19:02 - 00:03:24:03 and it was quite service orientated since then, I've obviously

00:03:24:04 - 00:03:28:24 had experience with a lot of different other industries

00:03:29:01 - 00:03:30:18 and IT space

00:03:30:18 - 00:03:34:22 allows us to get funds which will allow us to pick up

00:03:34:22 - 00:03:37:22 a specific type of industry,

00:03:38:01 - 00:03:42:15 a semi that will help us grow and make it

00:03:42:17 - 00:03:43:08 sustainable.

00:03:43:08 - 00:03:47:22 So the materiality of the size of business that you would want to

00:03:47:24 - 00:03:52:24 for this chapter to yes, you acquired a I guess a small kind of self-funded search

00:03:52:24 - 00:03:56:20 size business previously, which you've obviously had some great success with.

00:03:56:22 - 00:04:00:19 You wanted to step that up to a larger entity and search

00:04:00:21 - 00:04:03:10 the traditional search fund model kind of I guess

00:04:03:10 - 00:04:06:17 facilitates that in the amount of capital that it gives access to.

00:04:06:19 - 00:04:08:09 Exactly.

00:04:08:09 - 00:04:11:14 Yeah No nice and Andrew similar motivation or

00:04:11:15 - 00:04:15:13 yeah open and honestly say I'm not the

00:04:15:15 - 00:04:20:09 the ideas person that the one that's going to find a sort of a novel solution

00:04:20:09 - 00:04:25:01 for something or a novel idea that's going to become a unicorn.

00:04:25:03 - 00:04:29:09 So the sort of model where you go into an asthma and you can

00:04:29:11 - 00:04:29:20 it's been

00:04:29:20 - 00:04:33:01 operating for sort of 20 or 30 years as,

00:04:33:03 - 00:04:37:12 as the model states and been able to to take that and grow that.

00:04:37:12 - 00:04:42:02 And so it was a perfect avenue to get into that space.

00:04:42:04 - 00:04:47:22 So improvements, iterations versus innovations from the ground up,

00:04:47:22 - 00:04:52:13 you know, getting into a strong foundation business and applying your competencies

00:04:52:13 - 00:04:57:11 and capabilities and insights to to adding that value and creating that value.

00:04:57:11 - 00:04:58:15 Great. Absolutely.

00:04:58:15 - 00:05:02:06 So both of you, as I touched on in the intro,

00:05:02:08 - 00:05:06:05 went through the Cambridge judge MBA program would love.

00:05:06:05 - 00:05:07:17 Before we get into, you know, how

00:05:07:17 - 00:05:11:19 that brought you both together to get your reflections on the program.

00:05:11:21 - 00:05:15:05 So yeah, I the elective is a

00:05:15:07 - 00:05:16:14 it's something we go back in

00:05:16:14 - 00:05:20:01 is the chosen module that you can we can do during the two years that we did

00:05:20:01 - 00:05:23:16 the MBA and also when we go back every year we can choose to do it.

00:05:23:16 - 00:05:28:03 So it's an optional course and I sort of serendipitously

00:05:28:09 - 00:05:32:13 got onto it this time round and that was February.

00:05:32:13 - 00:05:37:24 So only three months ago I learned about all this and so here we are.

00:05:38:01 - 00:05:41:00 And so how Avani came

00:05:41:00 - 00:05:44:00 came into the fold was I sort of

00:05:44:04 - 00:05:48:23 so began a bit of outreach to fellow alumni who were sort of interested

00:05:48:23 - 00:05:53:05 in the space and some that wish to invest in some of, some of that.

00:05:53:05 - 00:05:55:16 Harvard come along the journey with those.

00:05:55:16 - 00:05:58:19 Avani was one of those people and

00:05:58:21 - 00:06:03:00 a the people that had the knowledge of the space or people

00:06:03:00 - 00:06:06:21 who had skill sets that could come along on the journey with me.

00:06:07:01 - 00:06:08:19 And then

00:06:08:19 - 00:06:13:23 speaking to Avani investors as was if she wanted to invest and come along

00:06:13:24 - 00:06:19:00 and that fold and have you find yourself in a similar position to them.

00:06:19:04 - 00:06:22:22 John Yeah, because at the time when he called

00:06:22:24 - 00:06:27:19 in to call to, to explain about what he's going to start and do,

00:06:27:21 - 00:06:28:23 I was aware of it.

00:06:28:23 - 00:06:32:00 I was planning to do the elective as well to try and understand.

00:06:32:00 - 00:06:35:23 But I thought the two modules I really wanted to do.

00:06:36:00 - 00:06:40:14 But when Andrew called me, I was like, I'm doing that right now.

00:06:40:14 - 00:06:44:04 I'm literally looking for a company as we speak,

00:06:44:06 - 00:06:47:17 just been looking at various different

00:06:47:19 - 00:06:48:17 listings, I guess with

00:06:48:17 - 00:06:52:15 listing listings on online and started networking

00:06:52:15 - 00:06:55:21 with some people, local businesses just to see what's going on.

00:06:55:23 - 00:06:57:05 Yeah, very sensible.

00:06:57:05 - 00:07:00:16 We'll get to sourcing a little bit strategies but

00:07:00:18 - 00:07:03:01 but then Andrew approach is like hold on a minute,

00:07:03:01 - 00:07:04:21 I could actually look at a much bigger company

00:07:04:21 - 00:07:09:07 than what I'm looking at right now and make a bigger difference

00:07:09:07 - 00:07:12:16 than acquiring a small company and which can still take a long

00:07:12:16 - 00:07:15:16 journey to, to, to get where I would like to get to.

00:07:15:18 - 00:07:18:10 And doing it together with Andrew's financial experience

00:07:18:10 - 00:07:22:11 and my digital transformation experience, I thought, why not?

00:07:22:11 - 00:07:23:12 This is a perfect next.

00:07:23:12 - 00:07:26:12 Yes, a very sensible of you both to seek to

00:07:26:16 - 00:07:29:07 not go out and do this alone.

00:07:29:07 - 00:07:31:18 Not because you can, but because it's

00:07:31:18 - 00:07:35:09 arguably more investable when you go as a as a team.

00:07:35:11 - 00:07:38:04 And certainly in search, we see a,

00:07:38:04 - 00:07:41:08 you know, a number of solo search funds.

00:07:41:08 - 00:07:45:02 But the ones that seem to get traction earlier seem to be those

00:07:45:02 - 00:07:48:04 with multiple people at the helm.

00:07:48:06 - 00:07:51:07 That was something you were very much aware of from the beginning, I assume.

00:07:51:12 - 00:07:51:20 Yeah.

00:07:51:20 - 00:07:55:23 So I was sort of embarking on a on my own to begin with.

00:07:55:23 - 00:07:59:22 It was only a matter of weeks before I spoke to Avani.

00:07:59:24 - 00:08:03:18 After all reading the books and the stands of Prima

00:08:03:18 - 00:08:06:18 and that the report said

00:08:06:23 - 00:08:08:21 so yeah.

00:08:08:21 - 00:08:12:21 So the, the advantage the stats are out there about partnered

00:08:12:21 - 00:08:18:12 search and the success of women and of on his background.

00:08:18:12 - 00:08:22:11 It was a great sort of combination and certainly now you've sort of all

00:08:22:11 - 00:08:25:19 come on to it in the sort of fundraising stage.

00:08:25:21 - 00:08:29:24 So certainly getting that feedback, that is a great combination

00:08:30:01 - 00:08:32:24 and it's proved to be successful, hopefully.

00:08:32:24 - 00:08:34:05 Yeah, certainly credible.

00:08:34:05 - 00:08:38:06 I would argue, you know, with the experiences you both got the

00:08:38:08 - 00:08:40:16 MBA under your belt

00:08:40:16 - 00:08:44:20 and the very deliberate strategic approach you've taken to bringing

00:08:44:21 - 00:08:49:09 22 capital partners into the world, I think, yeah, very smart

00:08:49:11 - 00:08:52:10 and hopefully that as well come on to is is getting you

00:08:52:10 - 00:08:56:04 some great conversations with the search fund investment community

00:08:56:06 - 00:09:00:06 but let's get into your thesis for 22 capital partners.

00:09:00:12 - 00:09:03:22 Tell us a bit about the type of businesses that you're targeting,

00:09:03:24 - 00:09:10:10 the unique value proposition perhaps that sets your thesis apart from others.

00:09:10:12 - 00:09:11:15 Yeah.

00:09:11:15 - 00:09:13:21 What are you looking to do with 22

00:09:13:21 - 00:09:17:01 capital partners?

00:09:17:03 - 00:09:17:22 What? What, what?

00:09:17:22 - 00:09:22:06 I'm we're we're focused on profitability.

00:09:22:08 - 00:09:26:11 The founder led the SMEs in sectors like manufacturing, infrastructure

00:09:26:11 - 00:09:32:00 services, CG Some of the industries that we both have had experience in

00:09:32:02 - 00:09:35:23 and we believe that these businesses

00:09:36:00 - 00:09:40:17 have good fundamentals and

00:09:40:19 - 00:09:41:22 under digitized

00:09:41:22 - 00:09:45:09 and we have a huge growth potential in just operating

00:09:45:09 - 00:09:48:21 and digitizing a lot of those functions based on both of our experiences.

00:09:48:21 - 00:09:51:23 And that's what what's drawing us to that kind of industries.

00:09:51:23 - 00:09:55:06 You mentioned there three of the sort of segments or verticals

00:09:55:06 - 00:09:58:08 there in industrial infrastructure services

00:09:58:08 - 00:10:01:24 and FMCG, all of which when I hear those collectively,

00:10:01:24 - 00:10:05:24 I think of, you know, a fair amount of fixed assets,

00:10:06:01 - 00:10:09:16 perhaps some the inventory on the balance sheet.

00:10:09:16 - 00:10:13:00 So, you know, you're looking at probably a reasonably high

00:10:13:02 - 00:10:15:09 asset value businesses in that sense.

00:10:15:09 - 00:10:18:09 Was that strategically deliberate?

00:10:18:11 - 00:10:20:21 I wouldn't say so.

00:10:20:21 - 00:10:24:19 To sort of a vantage point around

00:10:24:21 - 00:10:29:07 how those industries are and how they've grown and evolved over time,

00:10:29:07 - 00:10:34:11 there's a sort of a huge opportunity there for that, that sort of digitization

00:10:34:11 - 00:10:39:05 pace and the use of technology and this whole becoming a

00:10:39:07 - 00:10:41:19 becoming an organization in those industries,

00:10:41:19 - 00:10:45:01 the sort of market leaders in terms of what they do

00:10:45:01 - 00:10:47:22 and how they operate and then being able to grow.

00:10:47:22 - 00:10:51:02 So it wasn't it wasn't more about the sort.

00:10:51:03 - 00:10:55:21 So the asset base really, and some of them can be quite, quite asset light

00:10:55:23 - 00:10:59:01 and once they get into the accounting

00:10:59:04 - 00:11:04:20 so side of things, but so late lease in leasing things and whatnot.

00:11:04:20 - 00:11:07:24 So it was more the opportunity that we saw

00:11:07:24 - 00:11:13:10 in the industries that I mean we focused on those and

00:11:13:12 - 00:11:17:08 just to be able to sort of talk through that and go

00:11:17:10 - 00:11:21:00 particularly with investors and have done that work in particular industries.

00:11:21:00 - 00:11:25:11 But we're still having a sort of an agnostic approach.

00:11:25:11 - 00:11:29:02 Yeah, keeping an open mind wide, wide search kind of net,

00:11:29:04 - 00:11:31:05 which I think is very sensible

00:11:31:05 - 00:11:34:14 because you don't want to restrict yourself at this early stage,

00:11:34:16 - 00:11:37:16 but good that you've got an eye on the ideal kind of

00:11:37:20 - 00:11:40:20 areas that you'd like to to get some success in.

00:11:40:20 - 00:11:43:05 Particularly I'm interested in the digital transformation piece.

00:11:43:05 - 00:11:47:11 You're quite heavily indexed on on that, looking for value creation opportunities

00:11:47:11 - 00:11:48:17 through digital transformation.

00:11:48:17 - 00:11:50:07 Obviously that's your background.

00:11:50:07 - 00:11:55:22 Avani But where do you see those value add to value creates can come from

00:11:55:22 - 00:11:58:14 in that digital transformation, specifically,

00:11:58:14 - 00:12:01:04 a lot of people when they say digital transformation, they think it's

00:12:01:04 - 00:12:04:11 technology and will solve all the problems,

00:12:04:13 - 00:12:05:24 which isn't the case.

00:12:05:24 - 00:12:08:04 It's usually starts off with business processes

00:12:08:04 - 00:12:10:01 and that's where it really starts.

00:12:10:01 - 00:12:15:16 And typically the projects I've done, I've had limited

00:12:15:18 - 00:12:18:16 say in making those changes on the business fronts.

00:12:18:16 - 00:12:19:23 I would be able to advise

00:12:19:23 - 00:12:23:18 but not see it through because I don't have the rights to do so.

00:12:23:20 - 00:12:26:10 Now owning a business and running it in semi, I can.

00:12:26:10 - 00:12:28:17 I've seen it all in these different industries.

00:12:28:17 - 00:12:33:17 Now I have the opportunity or will have the opportunity to go in there,

00:12:33:19 - 00:12:36:18 do it right, changing those business processes.

00:12:36:18 - 00:12:38:07 It's not a tomorrow.

00:12:38:07 - 00:12:41:23 It's going to be just change and it's a journey.

00:12:42:00 - 00:12:44:22 Understanding what those processes are today,

00:12:44:22 - 00:12:49:01 how we can transform those processes and help aid

00:12:49:03 - 00:12:51:20 those changes with with the digitization

00:12:51:20 - 00:12:54:15 and potentially even automation if it if it is possible.

00:12:54:15 - 00:12:58:21 And these kind of industries that we highlighted is those are the ones which,

00:12:58:23 - 00:13:03:01 which I've seen and Andrew seen is that

00:13:03:03 - 00:13:05:00 they aren't digitized very well.

00:13:05:00 - 00:13:08:16 They've been focused on that legacy of the relationships

00:13:08:16 - 00:13:11:16 with businesses and have those contracts already.

00:13:11:19 - 00:13:15:15 And now they haven't thought about doing things

00:13:15:19 - 00:13:18:15 different way and there's a huge opportunity there.

00:13:18:15 - 00:13:23:21 And that's what I'm definitely and Andrew thinks that we should be able to.

00:13:23:21 - 00:13:27:24 Yeah, very apropos of the time, I think guys that, you know,

00:13:28:01 - 00:13:30:20 there are businesses that have come up through a particular vintage

00:13:30:20 - 00:13:34:01 or era that maybe haven't embraced the A.I.

00:13:34:01 - 00:13:38:14 revolution or the automation revolution as you touch on there,

00:13:38:16 - 00:13:41:19 perhaps in production, but also in back office processes as well.

00:13:42:00 - 00:13:45:20 That interesting to hear that you say you don't want to rush to do that.

00:13:45:20 - 00:13:48:18 And it's, I guess, refreshing for anybody that might be acquired by you

00:13:48:18 - 00:13:50:16 to know that it's not going to be it'll change day one.

00:13:50:16 - 00:13:56:00 But could you speak to particular focus areas, perhaps in some of those,

00:13:56:02 - 00:13:58:19 you know, industrial type businesses where you think

00:13:58:19 - 00:14:03:19 that, you know, automation, for example, might be applicable?

00:14:03:21 - 00:14:05:04 I mean, I could touch on a couple of things

00:14:05:04 - 00:14:09:20 in terms of finance transformation to the use of technology.

00:14:09:20 - 00:14:15:10 Now, even sort of using AI to to

00:14:15:12 - 00:14:19:17 go skim invoices and process them without having to touching

00:14:19:19 - 00:14:23:20 any human, though, so a process is around

00:14:23:22 - 00:14:29:14 reporting and a lot of the accountancy and finance can still be automated

00:14:29:14 - 00:14:33:19 and made a lot more efficient than they currently have.

00:14:33:21 - 00:14:38:21 Well, there are areas such as sort of HRN and payroll as well.

00:14:38:22 - 00:14:42:18 And, and yeah, there's, there's a lot of the sort of central services

00:14:42:18 - 00:14:45:18 areas particularly that can be transformed

00:14:45:20 - 00:14:49:10 and made a lot more efficient in these businesses.

00:14:49:12 - 00:14:53:13 And the key thing that I've learned is different areas are different departments

00:14:53:18 - 00:14:57:18 try and digitize certain areas, but when you're running a business

00:14:57:18 - 00:15:01:20 and have that vision, you'll be able to see that through and through

00:15:01:22 - 00:15:05:17 from back office elements to front office to your suppliers.

00:15:05:19 - 00:15:10:18 That whole ecosystem, that whole supply chain mechanism can be looked at

00:15:10:18 - 00:15:16:12 as a whole and see how strategically have that digitized roadmap put in place.

00:15:16:14 - 00:15:17:24 Because

00:15:18:01 - 00:15:19:02 yes, you can

00:15:19:02 - 00:15:21:17 digitize certain things in finance and agile

00:15:21:17 - 00:15:25:05 and then with your vendors that supply chain to make it easier

00:15:25:06 - 00:15:26:13 but still end up sanitized,

00:15:26:13 - 00:15:30:06 silo ized and you're defeating the purpose and all you may over digitize

00:15:30:06 - 00:15:32:09 one area versus other and they're not speaking to each other.

00:15:32:09 - 00:15:33:15 And that has happened.

00:15:33:15 - 00:15:37:09 But when we are looking at it from an overview and have that strategy

00:15:37:11 - 00:15:41:22 which we have that we can do it better, is what I think.

00:15:41:22 - 00:15:45:24 Yeah, And does that start with setting the culture within the business?

00:15:45:24 - 00:15:50:12 Because so it's a lot to shoulder if you are the one doing

00:15:50:12 - 00:15:51:17 all the digitization

00:15:51:17 - 00:15:55:24 and the sort of innovation, if you will, into in transforming a business like that.

00:15:56:01 - 00:15:59:15 But often you find that people that have been in these businesses

00:15:59:15 - 00:16:03:18 for a while have these frustrations about some of the repetition

00:16:03:18 - 00:16:07:12 and some of the inefficiencies that they can actually

00:16:07:12 - 00:16:12:19 be part of the solution in finding ways to improve them.

00:16:12:21 - 00:16:13:10 Have you found that

00:16:13:10 - 00:16:17:15 in your previous careers that engaging the workforce and delegating

00:16:17:15 - 00:16:21:08 that responsibility is hopefully absolutely.

00:16:21:14 - 00:16:25:09 Gareth The thing is, everyone is resistant to change, everyone

00:16:25:12 - 00:16:29:01 change, everyone's comfortable to a large extent

00:16:29:01 - 00:16:33:07 with what they're doing for various different reasons.

00:16:33:09 - 00:16:37:13 But change is a constant and I believe change is a constant

00:16:37:15 - 00:16:41:04 and the sooner we realize that the better and inculcating

00:16:41:04 - 00:16:43:09 that culture in an organization is very,

00:16:43:09 - 00:16:47:10 very key and fundamental to putting these kind of things in place,

00:16:47:12 - 00:16:50:24 bringing them on the journey and making it their ideal

00:16:51:01 - 00:16:55:05 understood ending, listening to what their problems are and doing a few quick

00:16:55:05 - 00:16:58:18 wins with them, even though strategically it's not what you want to do.

00:16:58:20 - 00:17:02:06 Sometimes doing that to gain the trust of what we're trying to

00:17:02:06 - 00:17:05:08 achieve is very, very critical and very important sometimes.

00:17:05:08 - 00:17:08:08 Yeah, and it also teases out the future leaders within

00:17:08:10 - 00:17:13:09 that may have been neglected in previous regimes where they given a bit of

00:17:13:11 - 00:17:15:05 air for the wings to take flight.

00:17:15:05 - 00:17:17:03 Actually, you know, how do they utilize that?

00:17:17:03 - 00:17:20:05 Do they start to rise above, you know, great.

00:17:20:08 - 00:17:23:10 So, guys, you're on the fundraising journey.

00:17:23:10 - 00:17:28:19 You know, you've set out the thesis is out there, you are on the tour.

00:17:28:21 - 00:17:30:18 How is that going?

00:17:30:18 - 00:17:35:03 You're in the midst of the capital raising for the search phase.

00:17:35:05 - 00:17:38:06 Andrew In pre conversations, you've described this as a rather

00:17:38:06 - 00:17:42:22 novel experience and Avani and your previous

00:17:42:24 - 00:17:46:21 acquisition, you, you didn't go out and raise external capital for it,

00:17:46:21 - 00:17:50:20 so you're both shaking the tin for the first time.

00:17:50:22 - 00:17:52:13 What have you observed?

00:17:52:13 - 00:17:54:16 What have you learned from the process?

00:17:54:16 - 00:17:56:23 Any kind of pearls to impart

00:17:56:23 - 00:18:02:04 and Well, yeah, it's certainly a new experience book and

00:18:02:06 - 00:18:04:01 a lot less daunted now that

00:18:04:01 - 00:18:08:02 we're doing it than it was before embarking on it.

00:18:08:04 - 00:18:11:13 And I guess the

00:18:11:15 - 00:18:14:15 I think it sort of proves that

00:18:14:17 - 00:18:19:01 if the sort dynamic between an investor on the on the search

00:18:19:03 - 00:18:24:12 and it's all about sort of building relationships and this this partnership

00:18:24:12 - 00:18:30:00 that you may or may not sort of embark on is going to be a long term relationship

00:18:30:00 - 00:18:33:21 and one that you'll still be partnering with in maybe ten years time.

00:18:33:21 - 00:18:37:11 So a lot of it has been around, particularly

00:18:37:11 - 00:18:41:19 the introductory calls that we're having with investors, is just getting to know us

00:18:41:19 - 00:18:46:05 and us to get to know them and sort of being able to build that rapport.

00:18:46:05 - 00:18:49:12 So it's yeah,

00:18:49:14 - 00:18:52:02 you've used the word partnering there.

00:18:52:02 - 00:18:54:21 I think that speaks to the sort of collaborative nature

00:18:54:21 - 00:18:58:19 of the search ecosystem right now.

00:18:58:21 - 00:19:00:08 You know, it's so supportive.

00:19:00:08 - 00:19:02:14 I've been having come from a sort of recent

00:19:02:14 - 00:19:06:20 experience of the last few a few years in the venture space.

00:19:06:22 - 00:19:08:01 It has been quite

00:19:08:01 - 00:19:12:07 refreshing seeing how this asset class is not commodified.

00:19:12:07 - 00:19:17:06 You know, people want to give up their time to assist and guide and,

00:19:17:08 - 00:19:22:08 you know, it feels much more collaborative than, for example,

00:19:22:08 - 00:19:25:23 you know, the early stage innovation economy does these days.

00:19:26:02 - 00:19:31:15 So have you have you found any particular, you know, heroes or champions?

00:19:31:15 - 00:19:35:23 You've had quite a lot of a warm welcome from a lot of the institutions in the UK

00:19:35:23 - 00:19:39:04 that are kind of immersed in this space.

00:19:39:06 - 00:19:41:22 Any particular leap out there have been, you know, very willing

00:19:41:22 - 00:19:44:22 and generous with their time.

00:19:44:23 - 00:19:46:21 All have been generous with their time.

00:19:46:21 - 00:19:47:21 Yeah,

00:19:47:21 - 00:19:52:09 we were sort of having the conversation on the tube over here and how

00:19:52:11 - 00:19:56:19 how refreshing it's been that they are at that point, not cause on the table

00:19:56:19 - 00:20:01:06 to say, look, we we want to be with you next to you throughout this journey.

00:20:01:08 - 00:20:04:18 And to an extent where

00:20:04:20 - 00:20:08:03 I mean thinking a little bit into the future that we can't sort of

00:20:08:03 - 00:20:12:13 have all of the be that part because it's going to be maybe ten, 12,

00:20:12:13 - 00:20:16:23 15 investors on our cup table and,

00:20:17:00 - 00:20:19:09 absolutely willing willing to support us.

00:20:19:09 - 00:20:20:22 And so I'll be that partner.

00:20:20:22 - 00:20:24:02 So and that sort of sort of boosting

00:20:24:02 - 00:20:27:04 those as well, doing these having these conversations.

00:20:27:04 - 00:20:30:10 And so it's a big attraction to the search base.

00:20:30:10 - 00:20:30:16 Right.

00:20:30:16 - 00:20:31:11 The fact that, you know,

00:20:31:11 - 00:20:33:20 when you're going out and securing these commitments

00:20:33:20 - 00:20:37:17 to your search phase, that you almost win the right

00:20:37:17 - 00:20:43:06 to to partner with these folks who bring more than just capital.

00:20:43:08 - 00:20:43:21 Definitely.

00:20:43:21 - 00:20:47:02 I mean, that's one of the big things that's attracted me to go down

00:20:47:02 - 00:20:52:04 this route as well, is that community, the support from investors,

00:20:52:04 - 00:20:56:07 searchers, operators, everyone is willing to have a chat with you.

00:20:56:07 - 00:20:59:18 No one has ever said no, I can't give you time.

00:20:59:20 - 00:21:02:06 Everyone, even if however busy the yard.

00:21:02:06 - 00:21:07:11 You know they are busy though some snippet or advice

00:21:07:11 - 00:21:11:20 and it's all have been valuable and that's one thing I've definitely

00:21:12:01 - 00:21:15:06 noticed is being you do need to be resilient

00:21:15:06 - 00:21:19:18 and you'll hear different opinions, different views. But

00:21:19:20 - 00:21:20:18 but you have

00:21:20:18 - 00:21:23:19 to be clear about what it is that you want and continue in pursuit

00:21:23:19 - 00:21:26:03 because everyone has a different view of how

00:21:26:03 - 00:21:28:17 from their own lives, experience or preference or whatever.

00:21:28:17 - 00:21:32:18 And those opinions are really valuable, but taken as a trend,

00:21:32:18 - 00:21:36:15 as a sort of a rather than responding and flip flopping on individuals

00:21:36:15 - 00:21:38:16 kind of different ways of working.

00:21:38:16 - 00:21:39:24 Yeah, Yeah.

00:21:39:24 - 00:21:45:00 I mean, I guess it was, but it is also part of the model that,

00:21:45:02 - 00:21:48:02 yes, you may have you've been in as chief exec crawl

00:21:48:03 - 00:21:51:12 run your own business, but typically there isn't that experience

00:21:51:12 - 00:21:55:02 of being a chief exec in a in a business as a search.

00:21:55:02 - 00:22:01:02 So and many of these investors have sort of the lifecycle of search.

00:22:01:02 - 00:22:04:08 They they've done the search and they've done the operation

00:22:04:08 - 00:22:06:15 and they may have exited in that

00:22:06:15 - 00:22:09:18 sort of give it back now, which is also a really nice sort

00:22:09:18 - 00:22:14:01 of circular for me that paying it forward, going on in the community,

00:22:14:01 - 00:22:18:22 which is which is lovely and it's it's great to see the success of excited

00:22:18:24 - 00:22:22:03 acquisition entrepreneurs that are now investing in future

00:22:22:03 - 00:22:26:08 ones and sort of, you know, helping folks on their journey.

00:22:26:10 - 00:22:31:14 So let's fast forward then, if we can, to closing your search phase, actually

00:22:31:14 - 00:22:35:22 getting your acquisition candidates lined up and getting a deal over the line.

00:22:35:22 - 00:22:37:10 That's that's fast forward.

00:22:37:10 - 00:22:39:15 What do we think, six months?

00:22:39:15 - 00:22:40:04 No, no.

00:22:40:04 - 00:22:42:20 In fairness, probably more like 12 or 18.

00:22:42:20 - 00:22:47:23 But once you've acquired that first business, how do you envision

00:22:47:23 - 00:22:53:04 your your respective complementing skills being put to work in those companies?

00:22:53:06 - 00:22:56:04 Where are you going to devote your time and attention first hundred days?

00:22:56:04 - 00:22:59:04 Who's going into what departments to do, what work?

00:22:59:07 - 00:23:01:05 Yeah, I mean, there's there's options.

00:23:01:05 - 00:23:05:05 I think natural, Leigh, given my finance acumen

00:23:05:05 - 00:23:08:05 and sort of the finance

00:23:08:08 - 00:23:12:20 sort of central services, maybe operations and then Avani side of be

00:23:12:21 - 00:23:19:12 sort of the technology, the value of the go to market sort of areas,

00:23:19:14 - 00:23:22:08 and do that, I mean is divided conquer.

00:23:22:08 - 00:23:24:07 Yeah, absolutely. Divide and conquer.

00:23:24:07 - 00:23:26:14 Go speak to each individual.

00:23:26:14 - 00:23:28:04 I think that's the key thing.

00:23:28:04 - 00:23:29:10 Even when I first bought

00:23:29:10 - 00:23:32:19 that was quite critical because they needed to see there's a new leader.

00:23:32:19 - 00:23:39:07 They're not wanting to just come in and not like I don't

00:23:39:09 - 00:23:41:24 say anything about PE funds, but that's their model.

00:23:41:24 - 00:23:43:05 This model is very different.

00:23:43:05 - 00:23:48:01 We're trying to be part and journey of that and help them grow

00:23:48:03 - 00:23:49:20 the organization.

00:23:49:20 - 00:23:52:14 So you feel you have to be more visible, more collaborative.

00:23:52:14 - 00:23:54:04 Yes, absolutely.

00:23:54:04 - 00:23:57:15 Yeah, definitely feel that we need to go down to the ground,

00:23:57:15 - 00:24:02:23 speak to every individual, including cleaners and people

00:24:03:00 - 00:24:06:18 who are managing the security guards at the front, every single one,

00:24:06:20 - 00:24:08:07 top to the top management.

00:24:08:07 - 00:24:12:24 Everyone has, I believe everyone has to be spoken to and believes that too.

00:24:12:24 - 00:24:16:19 So I think we need to do that to understand what the current culture is

00:24:16:21 - 00:24:20:08 and how we could potentially make those changes in the background.

00:24:20:08 - 00:24:26:24 Thinking of it just being a bit better available for for everybody. And

00:24:27:01 - 00:24:28:16 I mean

00:24:28:16 - 00:24:31:09 that know that what you should do at the beginning

00:24:31:09 - 00:24:34:17 and what we've we've read, what we've heard is you don't really do much.

00:24:34:17 - 00:24:38:02 You get yourself in there, you learn in

00:24:38:04 - 00:24:40:15 when you're on the ground and

00:24:40:15 - 00:24:43:10 yeah, it's continuous sort of learning.

00:24:43:10 - 00:24:45:11 Next is and it's winning the hearts and minds.

00:24:45:11 - 00:24:47:01 You know, there's going to be a lot of sensitivity

00:24:47:01 - 00:24:47:20 to change in those

00:24:47:20 - 00:24:52:05 first sort of three or four months where people are, you know, wondering,

00:24:52:07 - 00:24:54:04 you know, what the new regime is going to look like

00:24:54:04 - 00:24:57:04 and what changes are going to be effected.

00:24:57:08 - 00:25:00:16 I think there's a sort of stability or stabilize Asian kind of phase

00:25:00:16 - 00:25:04:02 that you go through post acquisition, which is very sensible to be thinking of

00:25:04:02 - 00:25:07:21 in terms visibility over communicating

00:25:07:23 - 00:25:10:08 has a great role to play there.

00:25:10:08 - 00:25:14:04 But yeah, I guess you're going to be diving straight into the zero and,

00:25:14:06 - 00:25:17:19 you know, taking all the things that you've learned from the due diligence

00:25:17:19 - 00:25:21:21 and applying some, you know, quick wins I guess there in the

00:25:21:23 - 00:25:23:13 in the financial practice.

00:25:23:13 - 00:25:28:23 Yeah, certainly getting a handle on your cash flow like the board.

00:25:29:00 - 00:25:31:20 Well of course this you know, if you've done the usual path

00:25:31:20 - 00:25:33:18 there'll be an element of leverage that you've probably

00:25:33:18 - 00:25:36:18 brought to the business that it maybe didn't have before.

00:25:36:24 - 00:25:37:23 Be mindful of that.

00:25:37:23 - 00:25:42:04 And yes, and definitely mentioning not is not

00:25:42:06 - 00:25:45:12 we may be dividing, conquering to an extent of speaking to people, but

00:25:45:12 - 00:25:50:19 I think the aim and theme should be that we're willing together on this journey.

00:25:50:19 - 00:25:55:19 We're going to work on it to to grow and win the

00:25:55:21 - 00:25:58:02 hearts of hearts and minds.

00:25:58:02 - 00:26:00:09 So probably early to ask this question, but it always brings me

00:26:00:09 - 00:26:03:10 round to thinking about staff, incentivisation and things like that.

00:26:03:10 - 00:26:05:01 You know, how do you cultivate the talent?

00:26:05:01 - 00:26:08:12 How do you keep them feeling like they're part of that journey?

00:26:08:12 - 00:26:12:12 Because, I mean, it's quite clear when you're an acquisition entrepreneur with,

00:26:12:14 - 00:26:15:14 you know, the stand for traditional model and you've got backers and you know,

00:26:15:14 - 00:26:20:11 you have to deliver that 80% IRR or to the to the investors.

00:26:20:17 - 00:26:23:16 You know, there is an endgame here, isn't there, where the company has

00:26:23:16 - 00:26:27:14 to drive its success possibly to another sale or

00:26:27:14 - 00:26:31:17 liquidity event or, you know, it has to be able to do something

00:26:31:19 - 00:26:34:18 profound over a kind of 5 to 7 year journey.

00:26:34:18 - 00:26:37:14 Do you have any thoughts on incentivizing the sort of

00:26:37:14 - 00:26:42:13 senior leadership or middle management to become part of that solution?

00:26:42:15 - 00:26:43:23 nothing specific for me.

00:26:43:23 - 00:26:49:13 I think around getting into the business that we acquire is

00:26:49:14 - 00:26:52:18 and we talked about culture a little bit before now.

00:26:52:20 - 00:26:56:05 I guess for me it is providing that environment

00:26:56:05 - 00:26:59:13 where everybody can sort of reach their potential.

00:26:59:13 - 00:27:02:13 Yeah. And giving them the opportunity to.

00:27:02:14 - 00:27:03:16 Is this not.

00:27:03:16 - 00:27:08:19 Yes, incentivization is a thing and we all go to work to earn a living

00:27:08:20 - 00:27:10:01 and that's important.

00:27:10:01 - 00:27:14:20 But certainly for me it's more than just the pay.

00:27:14:20 - 00:27:18:11 At the end of the day, it's having an environment that's enjoyable to work out.

00:27:18:11 - 00:27:24:00 The people can grow and develop and have have development plans, for

00:27:24:00 - 00:27:28:05 example, because some of these businesses may not have those those plans in place.

00:27:28:05 - 00:27:31:06 So certainly around just creating that environment

00:27:31:06 - 00:27:36:05 and maybe that goes back to my Ruby playing days and most sounds very warm.

00:27:36:05 - 00:27:38:03 It sounds like a great place to work if you

00:27:38:03 - 00:27:40:12 if you're looking to encourage those kind of personal journeys.

00:27:40:12 - 00:27:44:00 But that sense of team, that sense of collaboration,

00:27:44:02 - 00:27:47:17 I definitely want to echo what Andrew said about that

00:27:47:17 - 00:27:51:18 development plan, giving them opportunities to learn skills.

00:27:51:20 - 00:27:53:22 A lot of organizations

00:27:53:22 - 00:27:58:02 do have them, but I think tailoring them specifically to what they want to do

00:27:58:02 - 00:28:03:21 and achieve and and invest that time towards that will help in that

00:28:03:21 - 00:28:08:05 long term vision of whichever direction we end up going for that or as me.

00:28:08:07 - 00:28:10:04 So yeah, so it's more appealing

00:28:10:04 - 00:28:14:04 to the heart of the workforce rather than the pocket necessarily.

00:28:14:06 - 00:28:15:04 Yeah.

00:28:15:04 - 00:28:16:22 And that eventually come, right?

00:28:16:22 - 00:28:21:11 I mean, if you do exist, if you've got the right

00:28:21:13 - 00:28:26:01 culture, put in place, the right innovation mindsets in place,

00:28:26:03 - 00:28:29:03 I can't see why not. It.

00:28:29:08 - 00:28:31:21 Let's talk about challenges on the journey then, because you know,

00:28:31:21 - 00:28:35:12 you've you've probably had some already, as everybody does in the early days.

00:28:35:12 - 00:28:40:01 But where do you see the big challenges coming for 22 capital partners

00:28:40:01 - 00:28:44:22 on its on its journey to acquire and possibly post acquisition?

00:28:44:24 - 00:28:45:23 If only you've said to me

00:28:45:23 - 00:28:49:05 previously it's a fall in love with the problem and not the idea.

00:28:49:07 - 00:28:54:00 And the momentum matters more than perfection, which I think is wise words.

00:28:54:00 - 00:28:59:09 But have you used those kind of tenets

00:28:59:11 - 00:29:02:11 in overcoming any challenges so far?

00:29:02:11 - 00:29:04:05 Yes, sir.

00:29:04:05 - 00:29:05:09 David Yeah.

00:29:05:09 - 00:29:08:15 So yeah,

00:29:08:17 - 00:29:10:14 I don't know where to start in begin because every day

00:29:10:14 - 00:29:14:11 you have a different problem and you have a different thing to solve.

00:29:14:13 - 00:29:17:09 It could be a data

00:29:17:09 - 00:29:22:06 related issue where some information has been leaked to,

00:29:22:08 - 00:29:24:08 to trying to solve

00:29:24:08 - 00:29:28:02 someone wanting to leave the company or a bereavement.

00:29:28:02 - 00:29:30:15 It could be anything, and you just don't know what you're going

00:29:30:15 - 00:29:36:11 to come in with that day in the morning and having that open mindset of

00:29:36:13 - 00:29:37:15 trying to understand what the

00:29:37:15 - 00:29:42:04 problem is and and working towards that and hearing what those people

00:29:42:04 - 00:29:47:10 are trying to say, listening to them and understanding it,

00:29:47:12 - 00:29:51:05 making them feel that they could make a huge difference

00:29:51:07 - 00:29:54:22 on any challenge.

00:29:54:24 - 00:29:56:19 If we start reacting

00:29:56:19 - 00:30:00:14 to that issue or challenge, then it becomes,

00:30:00:16 - 00:30:01:17 exponential.

00:30:01:17 - 00:30:05:06 And it can be put out there

00:30:05:06 - 00:30:08:12 into the world as a wrong piece of information.

00:30:08:12 - 00:30:09:12 So I think it's important

00:30:09:12 - 00:30:12:22 to speak to those individuals, make sure they're heard, whatever

00:30:12:22 - 00:30:16:06 the challenge might be, it could be a specific

00:30:16:08 - 00:30:19:11 I'm not trying to go into details because like I am having floods

00:30:19:11 - 00:30:22:18 of what ifs and flashbacks,

00:30:22:18 - 00:30:26:02 I should actually be flashbacks right now.

00:30:26:04 - 00:30:30:01 But I think that's that's what has helped me get through a lot of them.

00:30:30:01 - 00:30:33:16 And there have been some challenges where I have not been able to know what to do,

00:30:33:18 - 00:30:37:20 have had to take advice and seek guidance from people

00:30:37:22 - 00:30:38:22 to make sure that

00:30:38:22 - 00:30:42:11 it's handled in the best way possible with the best outcome.

00:30:42:13 - 00:30:47:21 So willing to listen to and understand what the issue is and also taking seek

00:30:48:01 - 00:30:52:14 seeking advice from external third party people who are not

00:30:52:16 - 00:30:54:24 directly involved with the situation,

00:30:54:24 - 00:30:58:05 who are away so they can see it with a more objective view.

00:30:58:11 - 00:30:59:13 It's also quite important.

00:30:59:13 - 00:31:01:23 So you're already thinking in operator mode.

00:31:01:23 - 00:31:03:19 You're already thinking you can see acquisition.

00:31:03:19 - 00:31:05:21 I know what I'm getting myself into

00:31:05:21 - 00:31:07:21 and I know how I'm going to handle it, which is, which is great.

00:31:07:21 - 00:31:09:15 I mean, actually super credible.

00:31:09:15 - 00:31:10:14 So so thank you.

00:31:10:14 - 00:31:14:00 But also the challenges on the journey to get that far.

00:31:14:00 - 00:31:18:01 I mean, every searcher has, you know, commercial finance

00:31:18:03 - 00:31:24:07 challenges and equity challenges and sourcing challenge and negotiation

00:31:24:07 - 00:31:30:04 and due diligence challenges and deal structuring, all of that is pretty much,

00:31:30:06 - 00:31:33:00 you know, standard fare for the for the journey you guys are on. But

00:31:33:00 - 00:31:40:01 have you thought about any in particular and thought I had many mitigators. And

00:31:40:03 - 00:31:40:13 I think,

00:31:40:13 - 00:31:43:15 well, you've just sort of described everything.

00:31:43:16 - 00:31:46:11 It is certainly all encompassing.

00:31:46:11 - 00:31:50:09 And even at this stage now, it's

00:31:50:11 - 00:31:52:11 so much for us to do.

00:31:52:11 - 00:31:55:18 And in this stage of the search

00:31:55:18 - 00:31:59:01 for the fundraising now and

00:31:59:03 - 00:32:03:01 yeah, essentially something you need to go all in on.

00:32:03:05 - 00:32:07:02 And so we're fortunate to be able to do that.

00:32:07:04 - 00:32:11:16 You seem very strategic, the pair of you, in thinking ahead and planning forward.

00:32:11:20 - 00:32:16:01 And to your point about momentum mattering more than perfection, like

00:32:16:03 - 00:32:22:09 I think that is ever more achievable to arrive at that momentum if you've done

00:32:22:09 - 00:32:27:09 some proper planning and sort of tried to think ahead to these challenges,

00:32:27:11 - 00:32:30:00 where do you see potentially

00:32:30:00 - 00:32:33:00 in the search phase the possibility to trip up

00:32:33:00 - 00:32:36:06 and where you might want to make sure that you're super prepared?

00:32:36:08 - 00:32:40:08 Definitely something we both have thought about and discussed.

00:32:40:10 - 00:32:43:08 Yes. Acquiring is one thing, and I think we've got a good strategy

00:32:43:08 - 00:32:47:04 for that and using some of that process here

00:32:47:04 - 00:32:48:21 because it's going to be just the two of us.

00:32:48:21 - 00:32:52:08 And obviously we are thinking of whether we get interns to help us,

00:32:52:08 - 00:32:55:08 what kind of tools to help us and support us on that journey.

00:32:55:14 - 00:32:57:10 But it's more than just that.

00:32:57:10 - 00:33:01:10 It's trying to be more visible about this, that some businesses

00:33:01:10 - 00:33:05:14 who don't know they're wanting to sell us know that we exist,

00:33:05:16 - 00:33:09:06 and we're here to help that journey with them.

00:33:09:08 - 00:33:11:15 So we've like spoken to

00:33:11:15 - 00:33:15:15 other VC firms who have companies that they're not looking at

00:33:15:17 - 00:33:20:08 who are willing to share and share that information with us.

00:33:20:10 - 00:33:24:03 There's a local business person I met who had sold

00:33:24:03 - 00:33:28:07 his business more than 30 or 40 years ago and is now dedicated.

00:33:28:07 - 00:33:30:23 His time in an engineering business.

00:33:30:23 - 00:33:36:18 He sold he built and sold three different engineering businesses by the age of 45.

00:33:36:18 - 00:33:37:16 Amazing.

00:33:37:16 - 00:33:40:08 It was amazing. Something definitely to aspire to.

00:33:40:08 - 00:33:42:20 But he he the

00:33:42:20 - 00:33:45:14 his journey, he explained it and it was quite interesting to see

00:33:45:14 - 00:33:47:22 from a seller's perspective what he had to go through

00:33:47:22 - 00:33:51:03 and letting go of his baby, so to speak, literally.

00:33:51:05 - 00:33:55:01 And he's now dedicated his time to other business

00:33:55:01 - 00:33:59:11 owners around the country to and formed

00:33:59:11 - 00:34:04:04 a nonprofit kind of organization but a subscription kind of thing.

00:34:04:06 - 00:34:09:24 Amazing concept of helping and supporting other local businesses to whether it's

00:34:09:24 - 00:34:14:02 a legal matter, accounting matter, thinking of selling what to do and so on.

00:34:14:03 - 00:34:18:17 And he's someone I found quite an interesting person.

00:34:18:17 - 00:34:22:22 And yeah, it's been that journey for for that journey and I think quite valuable

00:34:22:24 - 00:34:25:24 for when we're going down that route because we don't then there'll be

00:34:26:05 - 00:34:29:08 so many different people are selling and we have to be mindful of that

00:34:29:08 - 00:34:33:09 and to help with the negotiations or what what it is

00:34:33:09 - 00:34:35:04 they're trying to achieve out of selling it.

00:34:35:04 - 00:34:37:00 This is really refreshing to be putting yourself

00:34:37:00 - 00:34:40:20 in the seller's shoes and trying to understand the seller's psychology.

00:34:40:22 - 00:34:43:13 I will go out on a limb and say not enough searches,

00:34:43:13 - 00:34:49:11 give enough forethought to that and therefore know

00:34:49:13 - 00:34:51:14 negotiation,

00:34:51:14 - 00:34:54:21 semantics, if you like, appear more frustrating

00:34:54:21 - 00:34:58:00 than they maybe are intended to be because, you know,

00:34:58:02 - 00:34:59:21 you have to walk a mile in the other person's shoes

00:34:59:21 - 00:35:01:16 in order to understand the lived experience. Right.

00:35:01:16 - 00:35:05:20 So and what's going through their mind and isn't just a transaction for them.

00:35:05:22 - 00:35:09:13 And so so yeah, really interesting that you've thought

00:35:09:13 - 00:35:15:01 that that through and Andrew anything to add to add that

00:35:15:03 - 00:35:15:16 I guess

00:35:15:16 - 00:35:19:17 I guess at this stage there's that there's lots of avenues

00:35:19:17 - 00:35:23:20 that we could go down in terms just thinking of the proprietary outrage

00:35:23:20 - 00:35:28:04 verses or broke highlighted and is it a plan to do a mix of both?

00:35:28:10 - 00:35:31:10 Makes it both, Yeah, certainly.

00:35:31:13 - 00:35:33:18 50, 50, 60, 40.

00:35:33:18 - 00:35:37:03 We hear different things speaking to different people. But

00:35:37:05 - 00:35:38:00 obviously the model

00:35:38:00 - 00:35:41:22 that had the hidden gems out there are found off market,

00:35:41:22 - 00:35:45:00 but the dynamics in the UK are quite heavily broken.

00:35:45:01 - 00:35:50:09 So definitely both and yeah,

00:35:50:11 - 00:35:53:11 better look goes with it as well.

00:35:53:11 - 00:35:56:09 Couple of conversations we've had recently, they've been quite

00:35:56:09 - 00:36:02:05 refreshing that the look plays a big part in this and

00:36:02:07 - 00:36:05:04 I mean yeah, people say you create your own look

00:36:05:04 - 00:36:07:13 and you put yourself out there in places that Yeah.

00:36:07:13 - 00:36:11:04 That you'll, you'll find it and hopefully we'll find that

00:36:11:06 - 00:36:14:17 there is definite correlation between the luck finding

00:36:14:17 - 00:36:17:17 you and you creating the conditions for luck to do so.

00:36:17:18 - 00:36:21:04 so so yes, it isn't those just fall out of the tree

00:36:21:05 - 00:36:23:24 but but again sensible approach

00:36:23:24 - 00:36:27:20 you know thinking about the mix of sourcing, thinking about

00:36:27:20 - 00:36:31:22 how you're going to maintain that momentum, really sensible strategies guys.

00:36:31:24 - 00:36:35:10 So looking ahead, let's think about what 22

00:36:35:10 - 00:36:39:02 capital partners might look like in 12 months time.

00:36:39:04 - 00:36:40:20 where do you hope to be on the journey?

00:36:40:20 - 00:36:43:14 Not necessarily acquired, but

00:36:43:16 - 00:36:44:15 who knows?

00:36:44:15 - 00:36:49:24 You know, first of all, in so, I mean, in an ideal world, if we were to come back

00:36:50:01 - 00:36:54:20 in the summer of 2026, what would you like to be announcing?

00:36:54:22 - 00:36:57:13 We're operating.

00:36:57:13 - 00:36:59:08 Operating,

00:36:59:08 - 00:37:01:04 I think, in 12 months time.

00:37:01:04 - 00:37:04:08 I guess typically this takes up

00:37:04:08 - 00:37:07:08 to 24 months to find,

00:37:07:08 - 00:37:11:06 on average to find that the ideal company and we're mindful of that.

00:37:11:06 - 00:37:15:20 It might take time, it might again end of the conversations that we've had.

00:37:15:22 - 00:37:19:06 And so, so we've found in a month or two

00:37:19:06 - 00:37:23:21 and that they're the best businesses and so who knows?

00:37:23:21 - 00:37:29:09 But I would certainly like to think we're progressing with, with some options

00:37:29:09 - 00:37:33:09 and so some companies that are out there and

00:37:33:11 - 00:37:35:14 yeah, try to find that

00:37:35:14 - 00:37:39:13 hidden gem that's out there for, for us to,

00:37:39:15 - 00:37:40:14 yeah, I

00:37:40:14 - 00:37:44:07 can see Yvonne is itching to just get through this stage and get

00:37:44:09 - 00:37:48:01 stuck running the business, which is, which is great.

00:37:48:03 - 00:37:51:23 It's not certainly not conceptual or academic for you is,

00:37:52:00 - 00:37:56:06 you know, it's coming across viscerally that you can't wait to get running.

00:37:56:06 - 00:37:58:02 It is absolutely. Absolutely.

00:37:58:02 - 00:37:59:13 I think it's one of those things

00:37:59:13 - 00:38:01:20 that stays in your blood because that's what's driving us

00:38:01:20 - 00:38:04:23 to help find that company as well and do that to do it.

00:38:05:03 - 00:38:10:10 But Andrew keeps me grounded so I'm not racing off, which really is useful.

00:38:10:12 - 00:38:12:03 I was just about to say that that's probably

00:38:12:03 - 00:38:16:00 why the partnerships are quite good and well,

00:38:16:02 - 00:38:19:16 but to be successful with this, that

00:38:19:18 - 00:38:24:10 everybody's approach is get out there, start

00:38:24:12 - 00:38:26:02 processing or you

00:38:26:04 - 00:38:28:16 think there's got to be a happy balance somewhere in the middle

00:38:28:16 - 00:38:31:18 where you don't overprocessed euphoria at this early stage,

00:38:31:22 - 00:38:33:08 but you also don't run before you?

00:38:33:08 - 00:38:35:16 Yes, exactly. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:38:35:16 - 00:38:38:16 So we do get a number of aspiring

00:38:38:16 - 00:38:41:16 and ambitious future searchers

00:38:41:19 - 00:38:46:02 listening to the Amazing and we want to be an inspiration to them.

00:38:46:02 - 00:38:48:22 And certainly your story inspires me.

00:38:48:22 - 00:38:53:00 I'd love to just at this early stage of your

00:38:53:02 - 00:38:59:01 search fund life, get your reflections, but perhaps with a lens of someone

00:38:59:01 - 00:39:02:24 considering this tentatively, I want to do a search fund.

00:39:03:04 - 00:39:06:02 Maybe you could just impart some wisdom around

00:39:06:02 - 00:39:11:07 why they might wish to or not, as the case may be. Have

00:39:11:09 - 00:39:15:18 algo I guess that I can't remember where I heard it, but it was

00:39:15:18 - 00:39:23:03 it was start and keep going and it's not going to be easy. But,

00:39:23:05 - 00:39:26:18 this certainly a where do you begin this journey?

00:39:26:20 - 00:39:30:15 You quickly, quickly find there's a community out there.

00:39:30:15 - 00:39:32:00 We've touched on it before.

00:39:32:00 - 00:39:34:04 There's a community out there to support.

00:39:34:04 - 00:39:35:03 Yeah.

00:39:35:03 - 00:39:37:17 You know, whether you're a partnership

00:39:37:17 - 00:39:41:13 or a solo searcher, you're doing this on your own.

00:39:41:15 - 00:39:42:16 There are.

00:39:42:16 - 00:39:43:14 So we talked about this.

00:39:43:14 - 00:39:46:08 You do this in a partnership

00:39:46:08 - 00:39:51:04 with, with investors, with advisors, with with the community.

00:39:51:04 - 00:39:56:23 And yeah, if you've got the a opportunity to embark on this,

00:39:56:23 - 00:40:01:04 then just keep going and find your,

00:40:01:06 - 00:40:06:12 the model that you fit into and, and take it away.

00:40:06:17 - 00:40:07:14 Yeah.

00:40:07:14 - 00:40:10:14 But it's a definitely it's also a lifestyle.

00:40:10:14 - 00:40:13:02 It's not for everybody.

00:40:13:02 - 00:40:14:21 This kind of journey.

00:40:14:21 - 00:40:17:21 Some people don't like to be thinking about work

00:40:18:01 - 00:40:20:10 evenings and weekends and things like that,

00:40:20:10 - 00:40:23:13 but this journey is going to be that you will be thinking about it evenings.

00:40:23:13 - 00:40:27:10 You will be thinking on your holidays and weekends and so on.

00:40:27:12 - 00:40:29:20 If that's not what you want of, just stop.

00:40:29:20 - 00:40:31:20 Don't waste your time if you just want a job.

00:40:31:20 - 00:40:34:06 Yes, search isn't for you, is definitely not.

00:40:34:06 - 00:40:35:23 If you want something that's all immersive

00:40:35:23 - 00:40:39:10 that's going to occupy your every waking and sleeping thought

00:40:39:12 - 00:40:43:09 and probably wake you up in a cold sweat, then this is definitely.

00:40:43:11 - 00:40:44:15 Yeah, yes.

00:40:44:15 - 00:40:47:10 But it's a well, for me personally, it's been extremely

00:40:47:10 - 00:40:50:19 rewarding the first time round, hence me trying to do it again and bigger scale.

00:40:50:19 - 00:40:54:12 So I find the reward and it definitely gives me a rush.

00:40:54:12 - 00:40:57:11 Well, that's the inspiration that you have done this before.

00:40:57:11 - 00:40:58:22 You have acquired and you've gone

00:40:58:22 - 00:41:05:08 the full life cycle and now you're ambitious to do it again.

00:41:05:10 - 00:41:07:03 Great. So just keep searching.

00:41:07:03 - 00:41:09:05 Basically

00:41:09:07 - 00:41:10:24 starting stops and continue.

00:41:10:24 - 00:41:11:19 Yes, it's great.

00:41:11:19 - 00:41:13:11 And there is an abundance of opportunity out there

00:41:13:11 - 00:41:16:02 is, as you've found, you know, there's this disproportionately

00:41:16:02 - 00:41:17:21 large number of businesses that need to sell.

00:41:17:21 - 00:41:20:15 So let's get out there. And by the way,

00:41:20:15 - 00:41:25:17 so you are still taking interest in your phase capital.

00:41:25:17 - 00:41:29:10 You still have some slots left on your units, left on your cap table.

00:41:29:10 - 00:41:31:08 Yes, there's some left. Yeah.

00:41:31:08 - 00:41:34:12 How would you like putting out fast?

00:41:34:14 - 00:41:36:15 Well, you seem like you've been high demand.

00:41:36:15 - 00:41:39:08 I'm sure you've got all the right ingredients.

00:41:39:08 - 00:41:43:12 How might you wish for, you know, investors, Either

00:41:43:12 - 00:41:46:20 institution of little high net worth to to contact you

00:41:46:20 - 00:41:50:04 in relation to potentially participating in your opportunity.

00:41:50:06 - 00:41:50:16 Yeah.

00:41:50:16 - 00:41:53:11 Linked in schools

00:41:53:11 - 00:41:58:20 we find our website towards the capital partners at UK or inquiries

00:41:58:20 - 00:42:02:20 at 22 Capital Partners account at UK if people want to email,

00:42:02:22 - 00:42:06:22 but you have to link to appear they

00:42:06:24 - 00:42:11:02 find is that they've got to ask why 20 to

00:42:11:04 - 00:42:13:08 go with that slightly sentiment.

00:42:13:08 - 00:42:18:15 So because we were the class of 2022 at Cambridge

00:42:18:19 - 00:42:21:15 so nothing at all to do with Taylor Swift.

00:42:21:15 - 00:42:23:10 no, no.

00:42:23:10 - 00:42:27:09 I've now not come out of that now.

00:42:27:09 - 00:42:30:13 It's a bit of a sentiment to, to where we know it

00:42:30:13 - 00:42:33:13 to the from and where this was born out of.

00:42:33:15 - 00:42:34:09 Okay.

00:42:34:09 - 00:42:36:17 You will have that tune ringing in your ears now.

00:42:36:17 - 00:42:39:18 And every time I see you, I will be playing it as your ringtone

00:42:39:18 - 00:42:40:21 and you call me. Okay.

00:42:40:21 - 00:42:42:18 I have first time.

00:42:42:18 - 00:42:46:09 I've put the two together. Yeah, together.

00:42:46:11 - 00:42:47:24 Loved teenage daughters in your house?

00:42:47:24 - 00:42:49:24 Not yet. Not yet.

00:42:49:24 - 00:42:50:11 Great stuff.

00:42:50:11 - 00:42:52:11 Well, listen, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you both.

00:42:52:11 - 00:42:55:05 Thank you very much for sharing your journey with us.

00:42:55:05 - 00:42:59:13 And we absolutely look forward to following your journey and hearing

00:42:59:13 - 00:43:03:01 about the businesses that you acquire and the successes that you make of them.

00:43:03:01 - 00:43:06:01 So, Avani, Andrew, thank you so much.

00:43:06:03 - 00:43:07:11 Thank you, Gareth.

00:43:07:11 - 00:43:10:08 And to all the listeners out there, if you want to follow Andrew Devon's

00:43:10:08 - 00:43:13:08 journey to track them on LinkedIn Connect

00:43:13:14 - 00:43:16:11 and also visit 22 Capital Partners dot

00:43:16:11 - 00:43:21:04 com UK, UK, which we'll put links to in the show notes.

00:43:21:06 - 00:43:23:22 We'll have another interview with an aspiring

00:43:23:22 - 00:43:27:20 and ambitious and successful

00:43:27:22 - 00:43:30:12 acquisition entrepreneur coming right on up.

00:43:30:12 - 00:43:32:16 So until then, keep on crunching.

00:43:32:16 - 00:43:44:18 Thanks, folks. And.