00:00:11:21 - 00:00:12:03 Hello and

00:00:12:03 - 00:00:16:14 welcome to the Amazing, the weekly podcast for acquisition entrepreneurs,

00:00:16:14 - 00:00:21:09 search funders and holdco builders across the UK, Europe and beyond.

00:00:21:11 - 00:00:24:11 Today, I am absolutely privileged

00:00:24:12 - 00:00:30:24 to be diving into the early stages of the ETI self-funded Holdco

00:00:30:24 - 00:00:37:00 building journey of Nadeem Kapadia, the managing partner aligned partners.

00:00:37:02 - 00:00:41:22 Nadeem has been building this holdco, which he's launched in early 2025,

00:00:41:22 - 00:00:46:00 to pursue a medium to long term buy and build strategy via

00:00:46:00 - 00:00:47:09 a self-funded search now.

00:00:47:09 - 00:00:51:03 Nadeem has a very distinguished history

00:00:51:03 - 00:00:54:11 of having worked in advisory roles,

00:00:54:13 - 00:00:58:15 serving a number of illustrious 5100 businesses

00:00:58:15 - 00:01:03:14 such as HSBC, Lloyds Banking Group, NatWest, Aviva, BP.

00:01:03:16 - 00:01:07:12 He has worked all around the world covering geographies far and wide,

00:01:07:18 - 00:01:11:10 particularly with a time spent in Singapore,

00:01:11:12 - 00:01:16:13 and he has been helping more recently SMEs with their digital transformations.

00:01:16:14 - 00:01:19:00 Using his unique background that spans diplomacy,

00:01:19:00 - 00:01:22:18 public policy, sustainability, consulting and venture capital.

00:01:22:20 - 00:01:25:23 And we're going to be focusing today on his decision

00:01:25:23 - 00:01:29:07 to pursue Holdco building through the self funded search model.

00:01:29:13 - 00:01:31:22 So, Nadeem, delighted to have you with us.

00:01:31:22 - 00:01:33:19 Thanks very much for joining us today.

00:01:33:19 - 00:01:34:05 Thank you.

00:01:34:05 - 00:01:37:05 Thank you very much, Karen, and excited to be on the path.

00:01:37:05 - 00:01:40:05 So let's get straight into the matter at hand.

00:01:40:05 - 00:01:43:13 Nadeem, you have entered this self-funded

00:01:43:13 - 00:01:46:13 search world in the last 12 months,

00:01:46:17 - 00:01:50:07 and this is on the back of a diverse international career

00:01:50:09 - 00:01:54:17 where you were working in diplomacy in Singapore, working in public

00:01:54:17 - 00:01:58:10 policy, working and advising all these illustrious 5100 companies.

00:01:58:12 - 00:02:01:22 But what was the driving force that caused you to decide?

00:02:01:23 - 00:02:05:02 Actually, entrepreneurship through acquisition is for me.

00:02:05:04 - 00:02:06:09 Yeah, it's a great question.

00:02:06:09 - 00:02:10:04 Well, I was always looking for something that gave me a bit

00:02:10:04 - 00:02:13:04 more autonomy, a little bit more control over what I was doing.

00:02:13:10 - 00:02:17:15 I'm very privileged to have had the opportunity to have roles across

00:02:17:15 - 00:02:23:02 public policy, diplomacy and consulting, but I was always looking for something

00:02:23:02 - 00:02:25:01 that would give me a little bit more control and autonomy.

00:02:25:01 - 00:02:27:09 And I thought and learned.

00:02:27:09 - 00:02:29:23 Started learning more about

00:02:30:00 - 00:02:30:19 entrepreneurship

00:02:30:19 - 00:02:33:19 through acquisition, really during business school time.

00:02:33:23 - 00:02:37:06 I had a few friends who were launching their own search funds

00:02:37:08 - 00:02:41:06 and it got me thinking about the model, but I never quite pursued it

00:02:41:08 - 00:02:44:12 by was always in the back of my mind and something that, you know,

00:02:44:12 - 00:02:48:13 I would spend some time with about free time reading, about learning on.

00:02:48:15 - 00:02:53:18 And towards the end of last year, I was quite keen to make a shift explore

00:02:53:18 - 00:02:57:00 something different, and I thought this was something that combined

00:02:57:00 - 00:03:00:18 a lot of what I'd done in the past, but also gave me what I was looking for

00:03:00:18 - 00:03:04:21 and therefore decided to plunge in and go into the world of it.

00:03:04:23 - 00:03:09:21 And so you studied an MBA, Cambridge at London based London Business School.

00:03:09:21 - 00:03:10:14 Right.

00:03:10:14 - 00:03:13:05 So the other part of the OG

00:03:13:05 - 00:03:16:19 of this world, Simon Webster, what did you.

00:03:16:20 - 00:03:20:16 Did you pursue the elective during that course, the ETA elective?

00:03:20:18 - 00:03:21:12 No. Unfortunate.

00:03:21:12 - 00:03:24:08 I didn't get a chance to do Simon's elective.

00:03:24:08 - 00:03:27:18 I know it's very popular, but I had a number of friends

00:03:27:18 - 00:03:32:13 who were actually launching the search fund while at the MBA itself.

00:03:32:15 - 00:03:36:22 And that was the first time I was really introduced to the term search fund.

00:03:36:22 - 00:03:38:09 And, you know, it was interesting

00:03:38:09 - 00:03:41:20 speaking to them, understanding how they were going about pursuing it.

00:03:42:00 - 00:03:46:05 I spent a lot of time during my MBA, actually in the venture capital

00:03:46:05 - 00:03:52:11 and private equity space, which has close connections to the search fund model.

00:03:52:13 - 00:03:55:02 But that was a great opportunity for opening my mind up

00:03:55:02 - 00:03:59:23 in terms of the opportunity, the challenges, the problem statement.

00:04:00:00 - 00:04:05:07 And so while I went on to pursue a career in consulting after the MBA,

00:04:05:09 - 00:04:07:22 it was something that I was always quite keen on and I'm

00:04:07:22 - 00:04:11:07 very glad that I've had the opportunity now to plunge

00:04:11:07 - 00:04:15:01 into this world of itI

00:04:15:03 - 00:04:18:03 was the amount of FOMO at play there where you

00:04:18:03 - 00:04:21:08 you didn't take the elective but others around you who did with that

00:04:21:10 - 00:04:23:16 their search funds where you're a little bit like, well what's all this about?

00:04:23:16 - 00:04:27:12 I feel like I've missed the opportunity, so I'm going to get stuck in.

00:04:27:14 - 00:04:28:15 Not really, actually.

00:04:28:15 - 00:04:32:14 I never was considering this as a pathway.

00:04:32:16 - 00:04:34:20 I was just interested in really learning.

00:04:34:20 - 00:04:36:10 I think the beauty about business school

00:04:36:10 - 00:04:39:01 is that you get the opportunity to really explore.

00:04:39:01 - 00:04:41:19 And for me, coming from a background where I had spent

00:04:41:19 - 00:04:45:06 a large part of my career in diplomacy and public policy,

00:04:45:08 - 00:04:49:05 the MBA was really the platform for me to to explore and to learn

00:04:49:05 - 00:04:54:10 different pathways, careers, opportunities that people were pursuing.

00:04:54:12 - 00:04:57:11 And so I think it was just really the opportunity

00:04:57:11 - 00:05:00:22 to start thinking about it a little bit more seriously, understanding

00:05:00:24 - 00:05:06:16 how people were going ahead in pursuing careers in the ETTY Well,

00:05:06:18 - 00:05:08:19 if we just go back into your

00:05:08:19 - 00:05:13:08 career journey, a lot of those roles were high impact

00:05:13:08 - 00:05:18:03 roles, both commercially and of societally, I guess.

00:05:18:05 - 00:05:22:10 Is there a particular kind of

00:05:22:12 - 00:05:24:06 progenitor that comes from that which

00:05:24:06 - 00:05:29:05 which led you to want to go into SCA where you felt perhaps that you could

00:05:29:07 - 00:05:32:12 have more impact than perhaps if you went down the venture capital route

00:05:32:12 - 00:05:35:12 or, you know, continued on the consulting path?

00:05:35:17 - 00:05:36:18 Yes, good question.

00:05:36:18 - 00:05:39:19 I think there were a few considerations that in mind

00:05:39:19 - 00:05:42:00 when I was thinking about this.

00:05:42:00 - 00:05:45:09 I think the first one was generally around impact.

00:05:45:13 - 00:05:46:17 I've been quite

00:05:46:17 - 00:05:50:07 fortunate to have been in roles where there was an impact, whether it was

00:05:50:07 - 00:05:54:10 public policy or whether it was consulting in the sustainability space.

00:05:54:12 - 00:05:57:12 And so I was quite keen in whichever pathway I pursued.

00:05:57:18 - 00:06:01:09 There would be some form of an impact, whether it's on people's lives,

00:06:01:09 - 00:06:02:11 whether it's on the economy.

00:06:02:11 - 00:06:05:16 And so there was something that that was in the back of my mind.

00:06:05:18 - 00:06:10:03 So there was one one, one idea that I was thinking about.

00:06:10:05 - 00:06:11:04 I think the second one

00:06:11:04 - 00:06:14:23 was generally in terms of the idea of

00:06:15:00 - 00:06:17:18 I spent a lot of time looking at entrepreneurship.

00:06:17:18 - 00:06:21:11 I've I've worked in a startup, I have mentors

00:06:21:11 - 00:06:24:18 and advice, a number of startups, and it's always been very fun.

00:06:24:18 - 00:06:28:19 I enjoy the adrenalin that comes in working in a startup environment,

00:06:28:19 - 00:06:33:18 but I knew within myself that I was not the person to take something from 0 to 1.

00:06:33:22 - 00:06:35:13 I know there are many talented

00:06:35:13 - 00:06:39:05 people who can take something from an idea and really develop it and bring it up.

00:06:39:11 - 00:06:43:08 But I knew that was not me and I knew my capabilities were really in

00:06:43:08 - 00:06:47:13 taking something that was running and bringing it to its next level,

00:06:47:13 - 00:06:53:04 coming in looking at opportunities to streamline opportunities for growth.

00:06:53:06 - 00:06:56:06 And that's why I never saw myself

00:06:56:10 - 00:07:00:01 going down the path way of starting a startup.

00:07:00:01 - 00:07:04:11 And therefore I think the ETA model, which combines

00:07:04:16 - 00:07:07:05 and troop ownership with the idea of investing,

00:07:07:05 - 00:07:10:01 but also taking something that's running and building on

00:07:10:01 - 00:07:13:18 that was something that appealed to me and I felt

00:07:13:20 - 00:07:14:08 struck

00:07:14:08 - 00:07:17:13 with some of the skill sets that I think I could bring on the table.

00:07:17:13 - 00:07:21:13 And that's that's how I landed on this pathway.

00:07:21:15 - 00:07:24:24 And you've opted to go on that pathway through hard mode

00:07:24:24 - 00:07:28:22 because you've done the non partnered, self-funded search route, which is great.

00:07:28:22 - 00:07:30:10 Congratulations.

00:07:30:10 - 00:07:33:21 Could you elaborate on why you've chosen that particular route versus

00:07:33:21 - 00:07:38:10 the sort of traditional Stanford model or others? Yes.

00:07:38:12 - 00:07:41:10 So obviously kind of going down this pathway,

00:07:41:10 - 00:07:45:13 there are a number of different ways you can you can pursue.

00:07:45:15 - 00:07:49:06 And I was familiar with the traditional search fund model,

00:07:49:08 - 00:07:54:02 which typically results in a searcher going out, spending 6 to 8 months,

00:07:54:04 - 00:07:55:11 sometimes more, sometimes

00:07:55:11 - 00:07:59:01 less, raising capital from a number of different investors.

00:07:59:07 - 00:08:02:20 And then beginning the search phase,

00:08:02:22 - 00:08:05:06 I was looking at more

00:08:05:06 - 00:08:10:23 autonomy, a little bit more flexibility in space in terms of the end acquisition.

00:08:11:00 - 00:08:14:00 And so I felt that going down to self-funded

00:08:14:00 - 00:08:17:00 path, we would give me a little bit more autonomy,

00:08:17:02 - 00:08:19:11 but also at the end of day, a little bit more control

00:08:19:11 - 00:08:23:08 because it would mean that that would translate to higher equity.

00:08:23:10 - 00:08:25:04 On the final acquisition target.

00:08:25:04 - 00:08:27:23 That was something that was quite important for me.

00:08:27:23 - 00:08:30:23 So that was one, one element that was quite critical.

00:08:31:00 - 00:08:33:12 I think if you look at the traditional search fund model

00:08:33:12 - 00:08:36:12 and if you speak to many people who have taken that path, we

00:08:36:12 - 00:08:40:16 one of the big benefits is having on your table

00:08:40:16 - 00:08:45:05 a number of experienced investors and advisors who can support you

00:08:45:11 - 00:08:48:10 as well as going down with credibility when it comes

00:08:48:10 - 00:08:51:23 to looking at potential targets, speaking to business owners.

00:08:51:23 - 00:08:55:09 And so I think that's one of the parts that I'm quite mindful of that

00:08:55:09 - 00:08:58:18 I do not have as a self-funded searcher.

00:08:58:20 - 00:09:02:09 And I think this is where leaning in on my network, on people

00:09:02:09 - 00:09:06:06 who I know, who are business owners, who are owner operators in the sectors

00:09:06:06 - 00:09:11:10 that I'm looking at or who have relevant experience are quite critical.

00:09:11:10 - 00:09:15:13 And I think I'm able I have been able to

00:09:15:15 - 00:09:16:17 cover for some of the

00:09:16:17 - 00:09:20:14 advisory support that you may get in a traditional search fund

00:09:20:16 - 00:09:23:07 to this current model just by leaning in on my network.

00:09:23:07 - 00:09:27:08 And I think the part of me, the training as a diplomat perhaps

00:09:27:08 - 00:09:30:21 played a role in terms of just networking, speaking to different people

00:09:30:21 - 00:09:33:21 and trying to bring them on board to support you on this journey.

00:09:33:22 - 00:09:34:08 Yeah.

00:09:34:08 - 00:09:37:23 So you felt that you could be more particular

00:09:37:23 - 00:09:43:00 about where you found some potential capital or

00:09:43:02 - 00:09:47:02 smart money or knowledge and experience to join you on this journey

00:09:47:04 - 00:09:50:05 rather than necessarily having to go the sort of traditional route

00:09:50:05 - 00:09:53:05 of the number of players that that fund that space.

00:09:53:05 - 00:09:54:00 Interesting.

00:09:54:00 - 00:09:57:10 How is it affected, though, your sort of search criteria

00:09:57:13 - 00:10:00:19 being a self-funded search and maybe your search timeline,

00:10:00:21 - 00:10:04:01 because we hear all this about, you know, traditional searches

00:10:04:06 - 00:10:08:12 are taking two years to find a target and but they're often like, you know,

00:10:08:14 - 00:10:11:12 quite material size businesses because they're bringing a lot

00:10:11:12 - 00:10:15:18 of external capital from their backers to take these deals down.

00:10:15:22 - 00:10:20:14 So self-funded searches tend to have a sort of slightly lower ceiling

00:10:20:16 - 00:10:23:16 and often a more accelerated timeframe.

00:10:23:16 - 00:10:26:13 Have you found that that's affected your thesis?

00:10:26:13 - 00:10:27:13 Yes, I think so.

00:10:27:13 - 00:10:34:03 So I think compared to maybe some of the focus areas for traditional search funds,

00:10:34:05 - 00:10:38:10 I would say as a self-funded searcher, it would be slightly lower in terms of

00:10:38:12 - 00:10:40:11 the dollar

00:10:40:13 - 00:10:41:03 values

00:10:41:03 - 00:10:44:03 that I am looking at in companies, sort of total revenue.

00:10:44:04 - 00:10:48:17 But I think there's still a sense over here of

00:10:48:19 - 00:10:53:06 what actually initially started out my search taking a somewhat agnostic view,

00:10:53:10 - 00:10:57:12 but I pivoted quite quickly actually into a few priority areas

00:10:57:17 - 00:10:59:01 that I'm currently looking at.

00:10:59:01 - 00:11:02:16 So for example, I'm currently very much focused on the healthcare space

00:11:02:20 - 00:11:05:20 as well as the early years education space.

00:11:05:21 - 00:11:09:05 And so I've pivoted and focus on those areas.

00:11:09:07 - 00:11:13:21 I think in terms of timeline, there's always a

00:11:13:23 - 00:11:17:23 I think as a self-funded search, you are taking a significant risk

00:11:17:23 - 00:11:20:24 upfront of funding yourself through the search process.

00:11:20:24 - 00:11:23:10 And I think that's something that I'm quite mindful of.

00:11:23:10 - 00:11:26:07 And so it's just given me a lot more urgency

00:11:26:07 - 00:11:29:07 to work efficiently and effectively.

00:11:29:07 - 00:11:30:01 And I think.

00:11:30:01 - 00:11:35:07 Garrett, you have mentioned this many times, you don't really need to us sometimes

00:11:35:09 - 00:11:37:01 it can be done on a shorter space.

00:11:37:01 - 00:11:40:04 Again, I'm still very early in my in my in my journey.

00:11:40:04 - 00:11:42:14 And I know that the

00:11:42:14 - 00:11:45:19 there would be occasions where certain deals may fall through.

00:11:45:19 - 00:11:47:18 And these are things that you can't control.

00:11:47:18 - 00:11:51:08 But I think it's just given me the urgency to try to work

00:11:51:10 - 00:11:54:08 efficiently and effectively in reaching the end goal.

00:11:54:08 - 00:11:57:16 You know, it's quite galvanizing, isn't it, The,

00:11:57:18 - 00:11:59:19 the self-funded search path

00:11:59:19 - 00:12:03:05 that actually, you know, you need to and congratulations

00:12:03:05 - 00:12:05:24 on focusing your your search around those verticals

00:12:05:24 - 00:12:08:10 you mentioned there with health care and child services.

00:12:08:10 - 00:12:13:14 But it also focuses your mind around looking for motivated sellers,

00:12:13:14 - 00:12:18:05 looking for executable deals, structures, sensible valuations.

00:12:18:05 - 00:12:23:08 You know, these things that, you know, if they're not aligned to your fund name,

00:12:23:10 - 00:12:27:02 that actually they will become obstacles and will just delay your search.

00:12:27:02 - 00:12:27:24 That that risk

00:12:27:24 - 00:12:32:03 you mentioned there of deals falling apart for reasons beyond your control.

00:12:32:03 - 00:12:33:00 Absolutely.

00:12:33:00 - 00:12:36:18 But there are also some preemption that you can do that that actually

00:12:36:18 - 00:12:40:19 mitigates the risk of some of those things by looking specifically for businesses

00:12:40:19 - 00:12:45:03 that are super motivated to exit and trying to come up with a deal.

00:12:45:09 - 00:12:48:09 It helps to have some cash, obviously, and not try and do these things

00:12:48:12 - 00:12:51:17 heavily leveraged or with a high level of risk for the seller.

00:12:51:19 - 00:12:55:04 But if you can find motivated seller, you know,

00:12:55:10 - 00:12:58:17 properly prepared to exit and come up with the right deal structure,

00:12:58:17 - 00:13:02:07 which is mutually rewarding, actually, you can get deals done at a reasonable pace.

00:13:02:11 - 00:13:03:09 I agree.

00:13:03:09 - 00:13:05:11 One of my big takeaways

00:13:05:11 - 00:13:10:14 during my time as a diplomat and I started my career as a diplomat

00:13:10:16 - 00:13:14:04 was the importance of achieving win win outcomes.

00:13:14:04 - 00:13:15:04 When you're out on

00:13:15:04 - 00:13:18:21 an international negotiation and you're speaking to counterparts,

00:13:19:02 - 00:13:21:21 it's really about trying to understand what the person

00:13:21:21 - 00:13:24:02 on the other side of the table is looking for

00:13:24:02 - 00:13:29:10 and how can you find an outcome that win win outcome for both sides

00:13:29:10 - 00:13:32:19 and I think that's something that I've brought into the search fees.

00:13:32:21 - 00:13:34:14 When I'm speaking with business

00:13:34:14 - 00:13:38:15 owners, I'm speaking to individuals looking at transition.

00:13:38:17 - 00:13:42:04 It's really about trying to put myself into the shoes of the other party

00:13:42:04 - 00:13:44:15 and trying to understand what are they looking for.

00:13:44:15 - 00:13:49:08 And, you know, one of the things I found is oftentimes not just financial,

00:13:49:08 - 00:13:52:08 they would have an idea of what they may want for the business.

00:13:52:11 - 00:13:56:04 But beyond that, there are other non-financial considerations that many

00:13:56:04 - 00:13:58:11 business owners

00:13:58:13 - 00:14:00:21 would like to ensure is protected

00:14:00:21 - 00:14:05:04 post acquisition, the legacy, their staff, their name, what do you have built in?

00:14:05:04 - 00:14:09:23 So I think trying to understand it and achieve win win outcomes is very critical.

00:14:09:24 - 00:14:13:12 I think that was the motivation behind the name aligned.

00:14:13:14 - 00:14:16:22 I was thinking of what I would call the holding company and I felt that,

00:14:16:22 - 00:14:19:12 you know, the way I work is really about trying to drive

00:14:19:12 - 00:14:22:18 win win outcomes and therefore having that alignment and having that

00:14:22:18 - 00:14:26:09 understanding that this is what I'm going after, this is what you are going after.

00:14:26:09 - 00:14:29:01 Is there a way in which we can achieve an alignment

00:14:29:01 - 00:14:32:01 and achieve something that's fair on both sides?

00:14:32:03 - 00:14:34:20 And I think if you can do that,

00:14:34:20 - 00:14:37:05 you can hopefully find success in India.

00:14:37:05 - 00:14:39:19 You can hopefully get a deal done relatively expeditiously.

00:14:39:19 - 00:14:41:03 Yeah, I agree.

00:14:41:03 - 00:14:44:24 And thinking about what the other party requires

00:14:44:24 - 00:14:49:15 rather than necessarily going in at odds, it's always going to be

00:14:49:17 - 00:14:52:11 more efficient and effective, One would hope.

00:14:52:11 - 00:14:57:02 So. You have taken the leap, you've established your vehicle,

00:14:57:02 - 00:15:01:05 you are busily in the of sourcing phase right now

00:15:01:05 - 00:15:05:14 and having some early conversations with some potential sellers, which is great.

00:15:05:16 - 00:15:09:21 What kind of practical steps have you had to take to get this far?

00:15:09:21 - 00:15:14:13 Maybe for the uninitiated who haven't considered going the self-funded route,

00:15:14:15 - 00:15:17:22 what have you had to do in terms of incorporation or

00:15:17:23 - 00:15:21:22 like setting up various bits of collateral to kind of get your messaging out there?

00:15:21:22 - 00:15:23:01 What have you done for sourcing?

00:15:23:01 - 00:15:25:09 Like walk us through the journey to here.

00:15:25:09 - 00:15:27:06 Yeah,

00:15:27:06 - 00:15:29:16 so I think before going on the journey,

00:15:29:16 - 00:15:33:00 I actually spent a lot of time actually consuming a lot of material.

00:15:33:00 - 00:15:36:00 There's a lot of good resources, whether it's books,

00:15:36:00 - 00:15:39:19 podcasts, interviews on YouTube.

00:15:39:19 - 00:15:42:14 Yeah, there's a lot of information as well speaking to individuals.

00:15:42:14 - 00:15:45:02 And so I spent a good part of last year actually

00:15:45:02 - 00:15:49:06 really consuming a lot of the information and really helping to crystallize

00:15:49:06 - 00:15:53:16 and develop that thesis before taking the leap.

00:15:53:18 - 00:15:56:17 So that would be one of the first steps I would see.

00:15:56:17 - 00:16:01:19 And then kind of on this journey of really just getting the basics,

00:16:01:21 - 00:16:04:14 the basics or getting the company set up,

00:16:04:14 - 00:16:07:10 having your thesis, having some of the templates ready.

00:16:07:10 - 00:16:11:07 So I think all of those hygiene factors are already in place.

00:16:11:07 - 00:16:12:18 So that would be step one.

00:16:12:18 - 00:16:17:07 I think step two for me was really about assembling the deal team.

00:16:17:09 - 00:16:19:14 Who are you going to be working with, who are,

00:16:19:14 - 00:16:23:20 who are accountants that you can work with, who have experience in many?

00:16:23:22 - 00:16:25:12 Who are the relevant solicitors?

00:16:25:12 - 00:16:30:01 Who are the relevant lenders, financiers, brokers that you can be working with

00:16:30:02 - 00:16:33:02 to be able to help you move

00:16:33:04 - 00:16:36:14 with speed and piece s And when you find a target.

00:16:36:14 - 00:16:39:18 And so and hopefully predictable cost at predictable cost.

00:16:39:18 - 00:16:40:07 Exactly.

00:16:40:07 - 00:16:44:02 And so I think having a lot of those upfront conversations and understanding

00:16:44:02 - 00:16:46:20 that and realizing that, you know, this a good working relationship,

00:16:46:20 - 00:16:49:20 I can work with this individual or this company and we can move forward

00:16:49:22 - 00:16:50:22 was quite critical.

00:16:50:22 - 00:16:53:01 And so I think assembling that deal team

00:16:53:01 - 00:16:56:01 was quite important for me after kind of the basics.

00:16:56:03 - 00:16:58:19 And then it's just about developing the process.

00:16:58:19 - 00:17:00:03 I think

00:17:00:05 - 00:17:03:04 someone mentioned to me

00:17:03:04 - 00:17:06:05 partly in jest that you're not going to acquire if you don't inquire you,

00:17:06:09 - 00:17:09:08 and so you're just going to have to constantly start building

00:17:09:08 - 00:17:10:09 that deal pipeline.

00:17:10:09 - 00:17:14:07 And I think it's a little bit patchy at the start.

00:17:14:13 - 00:17:18:06 You're trying to get the machine to work, so to speak, the engine to work,

00:17:18:12 - 00:17:21:02 and so you're reaching out, but you don't really have that process.

00:17:21:02 - 00:17:24:12 But it's really about trying to develop a good process for deal pipeline

00:17:24:18 - 00:17:27:16 so that you're getting these opportunities coming through.

00:17:27:16 - 00:17:31:03 And then as the opportunities are coming through, you are spending time

00:17:31:03 - 00:17:35:16 on evaluating these opportunities as well as speaking with the businesses.

00:17:35:16 - 00:17:37:09 And that's a multi-channel approach

00:17:37:09 - 00:17:41:13 to driving those conversations, like creating those opportunities.

00:17:41:15 - 00:17:45:12 Are you doing broker led on market as well as proprietary?

00:17:45:16 - 00:17:47:19 Are you are you networking out there?

00:17:47:19 - 00:17:49:04 Are you looking for referrals?

00:17:49:04 - 00:17:52:22 You know what, what are your current sourcing strategies?

00:17:52:24 - 00:17:57:16 Yep. So I would say it's very much a multi-prong approach.

00:17:57:18 - 00:18:00:04 One part of it is looking at broker deals.

00:18:00:04 - 00:18:04:21 I think you would see a large part of the many transactions in the UK

00:18:04:21 - 00:18:07:24 tend to be broker, especially in the areas that I am looking at.

00:18:07:24 - 00:18:10:07 What do you think that is?

00:18:10:07 - 00:18:12:21 I think I think that

00:18:12:21 - 00:18:16:02 I think one of the reasons is because

00:18:16:04 - 00:18:20:04 you have a number of brokers, you have a really a qualified deal on the table.

00:18:20:10 - 00:18:24:01 So you have individuals who are interested in selling selling companies.

00:18:24:01 - 00:18:26:07 And so I think when you can reach an alignment,

00:18:26:07 - 00:18:28:08 things can move faster and quicker.

00:18:28:08 - 00:18:30:08 So that could be one reason there's a large number

00:18:30:08 - 00:18:32:15 of different business brokers.

00:18:32:15 - 00:18:35:13 But also I think the approach of proprietary

00:18:35:13 - 00:18:40:05 takes a lot more time and effort. And so I think

00:18:40:07 - 00:18:44:02 I've spoken to a number of searchers who are

00:18:44:04 - 00:18:48:14 who do not have that luxury of time to be able to go down to proprietary route

00:18:48:14 - 00:18:52:12 and therefore focus a lot more on under broker site.

00:18:52:14 - 00:18:56:08 But for me, I've I've tried to have a bit more of a multi-pronged approach.

00:18:56:08 - 00:18:58:17 So there is

00:18:58:17 - 00:19:02:08 an element of opportunities coming from product searchers.

00:19:02:10 - 00:19:05:01 And we can talk about, you know, the different types of

00:19:05:01 - 00:19:08:04 business brokers, and it's about trying to build relationships

00:19:08:04 - 00:19:09:12 with relevant business brokers.

00:19:09:12 - 00:19:13:23 They are working within the priority sectors that you might be looking at.

00:19:13:23 - 00:19:17:19 Without naming, have you if you found it easier to create those relationships

00:19:17:19 - 00:19:22:00 with certain types of brokers like, you know, independent or group or,

00:19:22:03 - 00:19:24:13 you know, international franchised brokerages?

00:19:24:13 - 00:19:26:16 I've actually found a lot more success

00:19:26:16 - 00:19:30:08 in working with some of the smaller independent brokers.

00:19:30:10 - 00:19:33:06 So they may not be having a large number of deal flows.

00:19:33:06 - 00:19:36:00 Maybe they may have several deals in a month,

00:19:36:00 - 00:19:39:24 but these are high quality deals and they'll take the time to find you.

00:19:40:04 - 00:19:42:12 They will. They'll take the time to understand.

00:19:42:12 - 00:19:45:12 And I think they are also quite good in

00:19:45:12 - 00:19:49:24 helping sellers understand where where the market is.

00:19:50:01 - 00:19:51:24 Many, many, many deals are up

00:19:51:24 - 00:19:55:22 on on sites, but selling at quite unrealistic prices.

00:19:55:22 - 00:19:59:00 And so I think having a good business broker can add

00:19:59:00 - 00:20:02:00 significant value, the right business broker.

00:20:02:00 - 00:20:05:12 And so I think identifying who might be the right business brokers

00:20:05:12 - 00:20:09:14 for the areas you're searching and looking at can be quite beneficial.

00:20:09:16 - 00:20:12:06 And so that has been one approach that I've taken.

00:20:12:06 - 00:20:15:06 I've also gone down the proprietary

00:20:15:09 - 00:20:17:22 or off off market route.

00:20:17:22 - 00:20:20:07 It requires a little bit more effort into something.

00:20:20:07 - 00:20:26:09 I'm still kind of fine tuning and trying to improve on. Yep.

00:20:26:11 - 00:20:29:21 And I've done that through a number of different, different ways.

00:20:29:21 - 00:20:34:19 So one of it is through direct mail sending letters out.

00:20:34:21 - 00:20:37:12 And in fact, I just got a call from a business

00:20:37:12 - 00:20:41:18 owner yesterday from a batch of letters that I sent out earlier this week.

00:20:41:18 - 00:20:45:21 And so it's always nice to kind of get responses from some of the letters

00:20:45:21 - 00:20:49:03 that you great validation and it proves that your message resonates.

00:20:49:05 - 00:20:49:23 Exactly.

00:20:49:23 - 00:20:53:20 And I've also been doing email campaigns, thanks to Biz Crunch,

00:20:53:22 - 00:20:55:19 through the platform at Best Crunch.

00:20:55:19 - 00:20:59:23 It's been a very seamless process to be able to send out email campaigns

00:21:00:00 - 00:21:03:09 from a short list of different businesses on the platform.

00:21:03:14 - 00:21:05:10 So that has been very helpful.

00:21:05:10 - 00:21:08:06 And I've also been spending time trying to attend

00:21:08:06 - 00:21:11:06 relevant industry events, networking events.

00:21:11:07 - 00:21:13:21 To give an example, I'm looking at the health care space,

00:21:13:21 - 00:21:17:16 and over the course of the last few weeks I've attended a number of different

00:21:17:16 - 00:21:20:17 industry events and through that I've had the opportunity of meeting

00:21:20:22 - 00:21:22:06 a number of business owners.

00:21:22:06 - 00:21:26:11 And while many of them may not be looking to sell their business, as you know,

00:21:26:11 - 00:21:29:17 I think having conversations with them, understanding what you're seeing in

00:21:29:17 - 00:21:33:02 the market, has been quite helpful in strengthening my thesis,

00:21:33:06 - 00:21:35:23 helping me to understand where the pain points are.

00:21:35:23 - 00:21:39:19 And sometimes they they're quite helpful in directing me to other people

00:21:39:19 - 00:21:42:04 that I can speak to.

00:21:42:06 - 00:21:42:24 And so those have

00:21:42:24 - 00:21:46:05 been the main ways in which I have been sourcing.

00:21:46:05 - 00:21:48:06 I've actually also

00:21:48:06 - 00:21:51:04 been working with a BI site

00:21:51:04 - 00:21:54:04 advisor group on a no win,

00:21:54:05 - 00:21:58:06 no fee basis, which I think works quite well from that perspective.

00:21:58:06 - 00:22:00:09 And true to that, you know,

00:22:00:09 - 00:22:04:15 there's been several good conversations that I've had with some target companies

00:22:04:17 - 00:22:07:24 and they actually be going out and doing proprietary search on your behalf

00:22:08:01 - 00:22:09:13 to ask the criteria.

00:22:09:13 - 00:22:13:14 And what what I mentioned to them said, I don't want any broker deals coming true.

00:22:13:14 - 00:22:17:14 So they have developed a platform using AI

00:22:17:14 - 00:22:22:03 and some other tools to be able to source relevant proprietary deals.

00:22:22:03 - 00:22:26:07 And through that, you know, they have been able to pass through a few

00:22:26:12 - 00:22:28:11 and I've had a few interesting conversations.

00:22:28:11 - 00:22:31:10 So fantastic. Good. So the pipeline is gradually filling.

00:22:31:10 - 00:22:35:23 You've got a multifaceted way of, you know, filling the hopper.

00:22:36:00 - 00:22:38:12 And it's good to know that you're having some some good conversations.

00:22:38:12 - 00:22:41:08 As you'll probably attest, the conversations are to sow

00:22:41:08 - 00:22:42:12 the seeds of trust.

00:22:42:12 - 00:22:45:04 You know, the people don't just suddenly go, Yeah, hey, come by the company.

00:22:45:04 - 00:22:45:11 You know,

00:22:45:11 - 00:22:48:15 there needs to be this sort of dance of the seven veils that goes on, isn't there?

00:22:48:15 - 00:22:50:15 Really? That

00:22:50:17 - 00:22:53:19 means that you are following a path for maybe 3 to 6 months

00:22:53:19 - 00:22:56:20 of keeping in contact and spending more time with these sellers

00:22:56:20 - 00:23:00:04 to try and get to a point where you can find an alignment?

00:23:00:06 - 00:23:04:13 I keep coming back to that word that it's obviously inspired by your choice.

00:23:04:15 - 00:23:09:15 So just for the benefit of the listeners, just give us a steer

00:23:09:15 - 00:23:10:20 as to whether you are looking

00:23:10:20 - 00:23:14:24 for permanent ownership of the companies or companies that you'll end up buying.

00:23:15:01 - 00:23:17:04 This is a buy and build type strategy.

00:23:17:04 - 00:23:20:14 Is it where you would want to hold these companies for a

00:23:20:16 - 00:23:23:21 substantial period of time, or are you looking to do a flip and,

00:23:23:22 - 00:23:26:12 you know, play the valuation arbitrage game?

00:23:26:12 - 00:23:30:08 Yeah, it's definitely the former in terms of holding these companies

00:23:30:08 - 00:23:31:19 for a longer period of time.

00:23:31:19 - 00:23:35:19 And I think that's something that I make quite clear in my conversations

00:23:35:19 - 00:23:39:22 with business owners that I'm not here for a five year exit plan.

00:23:39:22 - 00:23:42:09 The intention is to come in

00:23:42:09 - 00:23:45:10 and to hold these companies for the foreseeable future.

00:23:45:10 - 00:23:47:12 There's value

00:23:47:14 - 00:23:51:01 in holding these companies and taking them to the next level.

00:23:51:01 - 00:23:53:02 And so that's that's really the strategy

00:23:53:02 - 00:23:56:21 over here in terms of holding these companies for the foreseeable future

00:23:57:00 - 00:24:00:24 and doing a bit of a buy and build strategy and identifying

00:24:00:24 - 00:24:04:18 synergistic businesses, they could come on board and take it from there.

00:24:04:20 - 00:24:05:13 Great.

00:24:05:13 - 00:24:08:02 You've mentioned already the verticals that you're looking at,

00:24:08:02 - 00:24:11:03 but tell us a little about the qualitative aspects

00:24:11:03 - 00:24:15:06 of the kind of companies that you're looking for within those verticals.

00:24:15:06 - 00:24:17:18 I mean, beyond we could talk about the financials

00:24:17:18 - 00:24:21:13 and the kind of expectations on EBITDA and maybe revenue thresholds,

00:24:21:13 - 00:24:26:15 but beyond that, what are you looking for in the wiring of these businesses?

00:24:26:17 - 00:24:30:18 Yes. So let me let me take the health care space

00:24:30:18 - 00:24:34:09 and within the healthcare space, I've been looking at care homes

00:24:34:11 - 00:24:39:01 which care homes as well as your home care or your domiciliary care.

00:24:39:03 - 00:24:42:15 And in terms of what I'm looking at

00:24:42:17 - 00:24:46:04 in these companies, you have the financial elements.

00:24:46:10 - 00:24:50:16 But beyond the financial elements, I think a large part of

00:24:50:22 - 00:24:55:22 of of these businesses around staffing, staffing and so understanding

00:24:55:22 - 00:24:58:04 what the culture of that company is quite important.

00:24:58:04 - 00:25:01:23 And I'm someone I've always valued the importance of culture

00:25:01:23 - 00:25:05:21 and trying to understand is it a nurturing, is it a supportive culture?

00:25:05:21 - 00:25:09:07 Do people do employees feel that they are taken care of

00:25:09:09 - 00:25:12:17 within within the organization so that will be a qualitative aspect

00:25:12:17 - 00:25:14:18 that I would look at or try to understand.

00:25:14:18 - 00:25:17:04 Also, understanding the management and management style.

00:25:17:04 - 00:25:18:18 For many of these businesses,

00:25:18:18 - 00:25:21:01 one of the key individuals is the registered manager.

00:25:21:01 - 00:25:24:13 The place a very critical role on an operational day to day

00:25:24:13 - 00:25:27:13 level, having the right qualifications, having the right skill

00:25:27:13 - 00:25:31:10 sets and having the right passion I think is very important.

00:25:31:10 - 00:25:35:00 And so I think having those conversations and understanding the culture,

00:25:35:00 - 00:25:39:07 understanding the qualifications of the management team

00:25:39:07 - 00:25:45:01 that would be running the business is quite critical, as well as understanding

00:25:45:03 - 00:25:45:18 what kind of

00:25:45:18 - 00:25:49:11 relationship that business has with the local council,

00:25:49:17 - 00:25:52:14 because a lot of the home care businesses are on contracts

00:25:52:14 - 00:25:53:13 with the local government.

00:25:53:13 - 00:25:56:13 And so understanding, looking at the seek, you see reports

00:25:56:18 - 00:25:59:10 and understanding what the feedback has been

00:25:59:10 - 00:26:03:22 from from these reports and and have they been

00:26:03:24 - 00:26:07:19 performing a good job in providing that service to the end users.

00:26:07:19 - 00:26:12:15 So those are some of the elements that I would look out for in such targets,

00:26:12:17 - 00:26:16:07 and that's proven pretty deep due diligence before really getting to kind of

00:26:16:08 - 00:26:18:00 heads of terms or anything like that with these folks.

00:26:18:00 - 00:26:19:15 If you if you identified the candidates

00:26:19:15 - 00:26:23:03 and you're doing a lot of that additional sector specific desk research,

00:26:23:03 - 00:26:26:22 that is quite a commitment of time more than anything.

00:26:27:02 - 00:26:29:13 Yes. Yes, it is.

00:26:29:13 - 00:26:33:16 And I think going back to the point on culture, it's one of those things where

00:26:33:21 - 00:26:37:14 you will never be able to get a full grasp until you acquire a business.

00:26:37:14 - 00:26:41:13 And even in the search phase, you have mainly your interactions

00:26:41:13 - 00:26:42:12 with the business owner.

00:26:42:12 - 00:26:46:14 But I think through technology and just going online, looking at reviews,

00:26:46:14 - 00:26:50:10 looking at what employees are seeing, looking at what end users are seeing,

00:26:50:10 - 00:26:53:21 what kind of reviews are coming through, I think that's quite helpful,

00:26:54:02 - 00:26:58:10 specifically within within the care space as well as in the early years.

00:26:58:11 - 00:27:00:21 Education, You have bought your seat.

00:27:00:21 - 00:27:04:08 You see reports as well as you offset reports in the education space.

00:27:04:08 - 00:27:06:22 And I think these reports are very thorough.

00:27:06:22 - 00:27:09:23 They are done by people who have a lot of experience

00:27:09:23 - 00:27:13:21 within the sector and you can have a good sense of the business

00:27:13:23 - 00:27:18:04 just by looking through and understanding those reports.

00:27:18:06 - 00:27:19:17 So talk me through, if you don't mind.

00:27:19:17 - 00:27:24:04 Obviously, we're still in year zero of of airline partners, but you have

00:27:24:09 - 00:27:26:17 you're obviously a very quick study

00:27:26:17 - 00:27:29:17 and you're deeply researching the space that you're in,

00:27:29:17 - 00:27:31:23 which is, you know, excellent will set you up very well.

00:27:31:23 - 00:27:32:14 But talk me through,

00:27:32:14 - 00:27:36:04 if you can, any of the sort of profound learnings that you've had so far

00:27:36:04 - 00:27:43:07 or any surprises that you've found in your search journey to date?

00:27:43:09 - 00:27:43:15 Well,

00:27:43:15 - 00:27:47:09 I think I think I was just speaking with a friend the other day,

00:27:47:09 - 00:27:51:00 and I was surprised that I'm just learning so much

00:27:51:00 - 00:27:54:07 every day on this journey because

00:27:54:09 - 00:27:56:16 there are so many things you will need to understand

00:27:56:16 - 00:28:00:00 from the financial perspective, from the non-financial perspective,

00:28:00:02 - 00:28:02:07 from the relationship building perspective,

00:28:02:07 - 00:28:03:24 from understanding the sector.

00:28:03:24 - 00:28:08:00 And so I think one of the things that I've reminded myself

00:28:08:00 - 00:28:11:20 is just to have that curious mindset, just to constantly ask questions

00:28:11:22 - 00:28:15:21 and and you'll never be able to try to get

00:28:15:21 - 00:28:20:01 a full developed thesis before going in, but just learning along the way.

00:28:20:01 - 00:28:21:11 It's something that's quite critical.

00:28:21:11 - 00:28:23:08 And so that's something that I have found

00:28:23:08 - 00:28:27:04 on this journey, just constantly learning along the way

00:28:27:06 - 00:28:29:00 and just growing a thick skin.

00:28:29:00 - 00:28:31:17 Because I think this journey can be challenging.

00:28:31:17 - 00:28:35:08 You're going to face and and hear a lot more no's before you get that.

00:28:35:08 - 00:28:40:02 Yes, but I always tell myself that every nose one step closer to what's a yes.

00:28:40:08 - 00:28:44:24 And so just persevering along the way and playing that long game,

00:28:45:01 - 00:28:45:21 one of the things

00:28:45:21 - 00:28:49:20 that I do outside of work is I do long distance running

00:28:49:22 - 00:28:53:12 and marathon running and debt has taught me a lot of qualities

00:28:53:12 - 00:28:56:09 that I have brought back to my professional life.

00:28:56:09 - 00:29:00:21 And one of the key things is just having the long game in mind that you're working

00:29:00:21 - 00:29:04:07 towards that target and you're going to go and experience bumps along the way,

00:29:04:13 - 00:29:08:14 but have that resilience, have that perseverance and you will get there.

00:29:08:16 - 00:29:11:20 That endurance mindset actually is a great quality

00:29:11:22 - 00:29:14:18 for the search for it, for acquisition entrepreneurs,

00:29:14:18 - 00:29:18:09 because you do have to try and think it's patient capital.

00:29:18:09 - 00:29:23:01 It's it's, you know, the long game that you are building for here.

00:29:23:01 - 00:29:27:09 So having that discipline and that determination that spans,

00:29:27:09 - 00:29:32:14 you know, potentially a decade with a view towards the end game and go,

00:29:32:16 - 00:29:36:09 that is, you know, a real key differentiator, I think a prerequisite for

00:29:36:11 - 00:29:37:08 a successful search.

00:29:37:08 - 00:29:39:17 So, yeah, marathon running, I see a lot of correlation

00:29:39:17 - 00:29:42:17 with people that put themselves through that pain voluntarily.

00:29:42:21 - 00:29:47:02 I remember when when I started off on this journey, I took a sticky note

00:29:47:02 - 00:29:50:14 on my table and I wrote the words Make progress every day.

00:29:50:19 - 00:29:53:07 And I stuck it just on my table.

00:29:53:07 - 00:29:54:19 And that's what I remind myself.

00:29:54:19 - 00:29:58:23 There would be days where I may feel I have not made much progress.

00:29:59:01 - 00:30:01:11 And in meetings where I have achieved a lot.

00:30:01:11 - 00:30:05:16 But what I tell myself is every day, as long as I am making small, incremental

00:30:05:16 - 00:30:10:21 steps, speaking to a few new people, learning something new,

00:30:10:23 - 00:30:13:13 having a few more deals come through the pipeline,

00:30:13:13 - 00:30:15:16 you are moving closer towards your end goal.

00:30:15:16 - 00:30:20:06 And I think just reminding myself that making those small incremental steps

00:30:20:06 - 00:30:24:13 forward is going to count for something later down the line.

00:30:24:15 - 00:30:26:22 100%. I mean, it is a game of numbers.

00:30:26:22 - 00:30:31:04 It is also a persistence and endurance game,

00:30:31:06 - 00:30:34:14 but also it's a constant learning experience, as you rightly identified,

00:30:34:14 - 00:30:37:17 because with every opportunity you learn something new

00:30:37:17 - 00:30:40:14 and you are applying some of the learnings for the next one.

00:30:40:14 - 00:30:43:00 And so it's a process of refinement, isn't it?

00:30:43:00 - 00:30:47:05 Arguably, And what you tend to find is some deals that maybe you weren't ready

00:30:47:05 - 00:30:49:12 when you first started to sort of come around again

00:30:49:12 - 00:30:53:01 and you're in a better position to take advantage of them at that point,

00:30:53:05 - 00:30:55:23 take advantage of the opportunity, not the seller.

00:30:56:00 - 00:30:57:21 So yeah, the mindset for the

00:30:57:21 - 00:31:01:17 marathon I think is a quite a key learning here and takeaway for me.

00:31:01:19 - 00:31:04:08 You've in our pre call kind of summarized that as staying

00:31:04:08 - 00:31:08:08 consistent, persistent and disciplined.

00:31:08:10 - 00:31:12:12 Have you could you speak to any examples of where that you've really had

00:31:12:12 - 00:31:18:04 to kind of dig into the reserves and pull out that kind of tenacity?

00:31:18:06 - 00:31:20:16 Are there any occasions where

00:31:20:16 - 00:31:23:16 perhaps it's felt like a steep mountain?

00:31:23:20 - 00:31:25:21 Yes, I think

00:31:25:21 - 00:31:30:05 while while I'm still early on on this search phase,

00:31:30:07 - 00:31:33:18 I have put up and put out a number of different offers.

00:31:33:18 - 00:31:37:06 A number of a few deals have fallen through the cracks.

00:31:37:08 - 00:31:42:12 And and I think it's always difficult when you see a potential deal

00:31:42:12 - 00:31:46:06 and you think, you know, maybe this might work and you're working hard towards it.

00:31:46:08 - 00:31:48:18 And for some reason it doesn't materialize.

00:31:48:18 - 00:31:52:09 Maybe your offer isn't accepted or you get past the offer stage

00:31:52:11 - 00:31:55:11 and there's some discussions and someone else comes in

00:31:55:14 - 00:31:58:18 and and it doesn't quite work out.

00:31:58:18 - 00:32:03:00 So I think it's always challenging to to, to accept that,

00:32:03:00 - 00:32:06:24 you know, something that you think is progressing quite nicely actually.

00:32:06:24 - 00:32:08:15 You suddenly hit a roadblock.

00:32:08:15 - 00:32:11:11 And I think it's really on those occasions where

00:32:11:11 - 00:32:15:04 you just have to take a step back and say this is just part of that process.

00:32:15:06 - 00:32:16:14 Every every nuance.

00:32:16:14 - 00:32:20:14 I say it's going to get you closer to what steps can be a more expensive, no

00:32:20:16 - 00:32:22:14 further down the

00:32:22:16 - 00:32:24:02 deal process.

00:32:24:02 - 00:32:28:12 You've gone from where any of these offers agreed, like in principle

00:32:28:14 - 00:32:31:02 they were they were one or two. They were agreed in principle.

00:32:31:02 - 00:32:33:17 So why the why do they fall out of bed?

00:32:33:17 - 00:32:37:06 Was it due to due diligence or seller mindset change set?

00:32:37:08 - 00:32:39:00 I would put it down to sell a mindset change.

00:32:39:00 - 00:32:40:07 So you do get that sometimes.

00:32:40:07 - 00:32:44:10 And so again, that has taught me the importance of trying to achieve

00:32:44:15 - 00:32:46:05 that alignment upfront.

00:32:46:05 - 00:32:51:21 I think if you can be honest, transparent as much as you can be at that point

00:32:52:02 - 00:32:56:00 to be able to ensure that both sites are on the same page,

00:32:56:05 - 00:32:57:12 I think that counts for a lot.

00:32:57:12 - 00:32:59:16 Yeah, it's difficult to screen for that, isn't it?

00:32:59:16 - 00:33:05:13 The you could think everything's going hunky dory and that you are both aligned

00:33:05:13 - 00:33:09:19 because you, you want the acquisition and they want the exit.

00:33:09:21 - 00:33:13:12 But you know, what we have to remind ourselves of

00:33:13:12 - 00:33:17:07 is that this is often the life's work of these individuals.

00:33:17:07 - 00:33:20:13 And it's difficult, you know, really at the 11th hour

00:33:20:13 - 00:33:25:18 for them to sometimes imagine a life without that presence.

00:33:25:20 - 00:33:29:07 And I think just going back to the point you were discussing earlier

00:33:29:07 - 00:33:32:24 in terms of putting yourself in the shoes of the seller,

00:33:33:01 - 00:33:35:16 it's easy for you coming in as an acquisition

00:33:35:16 - 00:33:38:06 entrepreneur and looking to acquire a business,

00:33:38:06 - 00:33:41:12 but for that business owner and I was just speaking to a business owner.

00:33:41:12 - 00:33:45:10 Yes, they spent 30, 40, sometimes 50 years

00:33:45:12 - 00:33:49:04 working tirelessly in building their business to where it is.

00:33:49:06 - 00:33:52:23 And this is probably the first time they are putting their business out there

00:33:52:23 - 00:33:53:12 for sale.

00:33:53:12 - 00:33:57:20 You are looking at a transition and so it can be quite a difficult pill to swallow.

00:33:57:20 - 00:34:03:15 Some some some of them may not have kind of really digested the whole process.

00:34:03:15 - 00:34:06:12 And so I think really trying to be mindful and understanding it

00:34:06:12 - 00:34:09:16 sometimes it may require quite a lot of conversations

00:34:09:18 - 00:34:13:04 in order to kind of achieve an outcome to achieve, arrive

00:34:13:04 - 00:34:16:04 at a seat where they are ready to actually move forward.

00:34:16:09 - 00:34:17:03 I think that's where a lot

00:34:17:03 - 00:34:21:16 of the sort of sell side preparation services work quite well is,

00:34:21:18 - 00:34:25:04 you know, being on that journey with the seller. Yes.

00:34:25:06 - 00:34:28:12 Helping them come to terms, you know, it's almost

00:34:28:14 - 00:34:31:20 sometimes it's like post-partum depression or,

00:34:31:22 - 00:34:36:00 you know, like a sense of loss of purpose.

00:34:36:02 - 00:34:38:11 And I think I think that's where that difference is

00:34:38:11 - 00:34:40:20 between the broker deals and the proprietary deals.

00:34:40:20 - 00:34:44:09 Because you find many a time with the broker deals, there's a really

00:34:44:11 - 00:34:48:14 that conversation has really taken place with the broker, with the seller,

00:34:48:14 - 00:34:52:01 and it could have taken place over the course of a long period of time.

00:34:52:01 - 00:34:55:01 I was just speaking, I was just looking a deal the other day as well.

00:34:55:05 - 00:34:58:01 And the broker told me that he had been speaking with the seller

00:34:58:01 - 00:35:01:23 for the past three years and she was fluctuating and eventually

00:35:01:23 - 00:35:03:21 then decided to put the business in market.

00:35:03:21 - 00:35:08:03 So there is that level of qualification it has already taken place with

00:35:08:09 - 00:35:12:00 with the proprietary deals, you're shouldering that burden.

00:35:12:03 - 00:35:12:17 Exactly.

00:35:12:17 - 00:35:16:07 And so then the recognition that that could take a slightly longer process

00:35:16:07 - 00:35:18:15 because it's a little bit more that you need to go through

00:35:18:15 - 00:35:19:10 with the seller

00:35:19:10 - 00:35:22:24 to get them to be in a position where they are ready to move forward.

00:35:23:01 - 00:35:24:15 Yeah, I completely agree.

00:35:24:15 - 00:35:29:02 I've seen very many examples of those on both sides of the table.

00:35:29:04 - 00:35:31:13 So let's look ahead.

00:35:31:13 - 00:35:35:18 It's a shame that everything continues to go up into the right for you

00:35:35:18 - 00:35:40:02 in terms of numbers of deal opportunities and willingness

00:35:40:02 - 00:35:43:09 of sellers to sign EPAs.

00:35:43:11 - 00:35:46:14 Where would you like to be in 12 months time if we're going to check in

00:35:46:14 - 00:35:50:07 with you in mid 2026, where would you hope to have gotten to by then?

00:35:50:09 - 00:35:55:09 Well, I really hope if we are checking in in the year two years from now, that

00:35:55:09 - 00:36:00:24 I would be able to share my experiences as a as a new acquisition entrepreneur

00:36:01:01 - 00:36:04:21 and what operating is like in the early phases.

00:36:04:23 - 00:36:07:23 So that would be the plan as well as talking to, you know,

00:36:08:01 - 00:36:12:14 the potential pipeline for future and potential transitions.

00:36:12:16 - 00:36:13:11 Love it. Yes.

00:36:13:11 - 00:36:15:09 Well you're going to be very busy in the operational sense,

00:36:15:09 - 00:36:16:21 but I hope that you'll still be able to spare

00:36:16:21 - 00:36:20:18 time for value creation through further add on acquisitions.

00:36:20:20 - 00:36:24:13 So Nadeem, what kind of listeners or stakeholders

00:36:24:13 - 00:36:27:16 would you hope to connect with as a consequence of doing this podcast?

00:36:27:16 - 00:36:31:13 Are you looking to speak to any capital partners for acquisition

00:36:31:13 - 00:36:33:20 capital, or are you quite comfortable on that front?

00:36:33:20 - 00:36:37:02 Are you looking obviously to speak with owners of businesses,

00:36:37:07 - 00:36:40:24 but are there any other kind of stakeholders that you'd hope to resonate

00:36:40:24 - 00:36:42:02 with from this?

00:36:42:02 - 00:36:45:03 Yeah, I'm always open to having conversations with a wide

00:36:45:03 - 00:36:46:08 variety of stakeholders.

00:36:46:08 - 00:36:49:14 So people who are on this journey and would like to discuss

00:36:49:14 - 00:36:53:17 specifically around to help care, as well as the early years education space.

00:36:53:17 - 00:36:58:07 Very happy to share notes, very happy to to engage in discussing debt

00:36:58:09 - 00:37:00:20 with capital allocators.

00:37:00:20 - 00:37:03:20 Investors always happy to have that discussion

00:37:03:21 - 00:37:07:17 and see if we don't get areas for discussion or collaboration,

00:37:07:19 - 00:37:11:10 as well as with business owners who are looking at, you know, potential

00:37:11:12 - 00:37:14:07 is always helpful to have have those conversations.

00:37:14:07 - 00:37:16:06 But I'm always I always find it.

00:37:16:06 - 00:37:22:21 I learn so much from these conversations and it enjoys speaking to different people

00:37:22:21 - 00:37:26:14 from different, different perspectives and kind of taking that on board

00:37:26:16 - 00:37:30:14 as part of the journey and part of the joy of the journey, frankly.

00:37:30:16 - 00:37:32:21 And where geographically are you searching?

00:37:32:21 - 00:37:36:21 Obviously so UK, but you're based in the home county, so where would you go?

00:37:36:21 - 00:37:42:13 So, so so I'm, I'm based in Waterfoot and so in terms of the geographical focus,

00:37:42:15 - 00:37:45:20 what I've told myself, at least for now, is anything within a two hour

00:37:45:20 - 00:37:49:24 drive from where I am, just so that, you know, it makes sense kind of

00:37:50:01 - 00:37:51:02 being physically

00:37:51:02 - 00:37:54:10 present while also kind of working in that remote sense.

00:37:54:10 - 00:37:57:22 So that's the kind of geographical focus I've put on myself for now.

00:37:58:01 - 00:37:59:05 Fabulous. Okay, great.

00:37:59:05 - 00:38:02:07 And how might folks contact you and connect with you

00:38:02:07 - 00:38:05:13 to have a discussion about what you're up to there? Yep.

00:38:05:13 - 00:38:09:17 I think LinkedIn would be a great place to reach out.

00:38:09:19 - 00:38:11:24 You know, feel free to DM on LinkedIn.

00:38:11:24 - 00:38:16:06 You know, I'm quite forced to respond on LinkedIn as well as maybe

00:38:16:11 - 00:38:19:07 dropping a note on our website

00:38:19:07 - 00:38:22:16 online partners like Co.uk, you can drop a note.

00:38:22:16 - 00:38:25:02 Dan will respond from there as well.

00:38:25:02 - 00:38:26:12 Excellent. Great.

00:38:26:12 - 00:38:30:01 Any final parting messages you'd like the listeners to have

00:38:30:03 - 00:38:33:15 as regards, you know, their search journey in general or,

00:38:33:15 - 00:38:36:00 you know, the journey to exit for business owners.

00:38:36:00 - 00:38:38:21 Anything that you'd like to impart before we wrap up?

00:38:38:21 - 00:38:43:17 I think I think for aspiring searchers of people on the journey,

00:38:43:17 - 00:38:48:21 I think on that journey itself, it's it's a highly fulfilling journey.

00:38:48:23 - 00:38:51:21 I have absolutely no regrets.

00:38:51:21 - 00:38:54:04 Since I started, it's been

00:38:54:04 - 00:38:56:21 every day has been a learning experience.

00:38:56:21 - 00:38:58:05 There are going to be challenges.

00:38:58:05 - 00:39:02:14 And I think the key message I would say to searchers or aspiring

00:39:02:14 - 00:39:07:23 searchers is just persist and persevere because, you know,

00:39:08:00 - 00:39:09:18 you get as much as you put in

00:39:09:18 - 00:39:14:09 and as long as you put in the hard work and you persevere, I'm very sure

00:39:14:11 - 00:39:17:21 you will get the outcomes that you're looking at, looking out for.

00:39:18:01 - 00:39:19:12 Gareth, I know you mentioned this.

00:39:19:12 - 00:39:24:15 We are we are fishing in not a small pond, but ocean of abundance.

00:39:24:15 - 00:39:26:18 There are many businesses out there.

00:39:26:18 - 00:39:30:10 They are looking for transition and solutions for transition.

00:39:30:12 - 00:39:33:21 And so I think it's a it's a good position to be in.

00:39:34:02 - 00:39:37:14 And I think with persistence, with perseverance,

00:39:37:16 - 00:39:39:12 you would be able to achieve your outcomes.

00:39:39:12 - 00:39:44:12 Yeah, no, it's absolutely a great time to be searching the

00:39:44:16 - 00:39:48:06 the numbers should work in your favor as a searcher.

00:39:48:06 - 00:39:51:19 But yeah, you have to do the hard miles to your marathon analogy.

00:39:51:19 - 00:39:55:00 So although maybe it's more of an Iron Man with you, if we're

00:39:55:02 - 00:39:57:02 swimming in a deep sea of opportunity.

00:39:57:02 - 00:39:58:04 But anyway. Good.

00:39:58:04 - 00:40:00:16 Well I'll, I'll call it a day there.

00:40:00:16 - 00:40:04:12 Thank you so much for giving us your time and sharing your journey with us today.

00:40:04:12 - 00:40:07:09 Nadim listeners, if you want to connect with the team,

00:40:07:09 - 00:40:11:20 please do so on LinkedIn will drop a link to his details in the show notes

00:40:11:22 - 00:40:14:11 and join us again next time for another interview

00:40:14:11 - 00:40:18:19 with Aspiring and established acquisition entrepreneurs.

00:40:18:21 - 00:40:31:05 For now, keep on crunching

00:40:31:07 - 00:40:31:14 and.