manthropoogy_mixdown ===

Regan: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome back to the Mr. Pick, me and The Man Hater Show. I am your host, the Man Hater, even though I don't hate men and,

Chesko: and I'm a very professional and serious host. Of this podcast, Mr. Pick, me, also known as Jessica

Regan: Prince. If you can't tell Jessica's trying extra hard today because we have a very special guest.

If you all recall, we happened to feature a video not so long ago of uh, the Notorious. Timmy bounced back. I'm back, baby. We don't, for the record, we don't have Timmy on the show.

Holly: Everyone's gonna be so disappointed. Like what? They got him. Can you imagine if we just brought him

Chesko: here? He is way too busy. His schedule.

He looked

Holly: and busy. He's

Regan: bouncing back.

Holly: Way famous

Regan: now. God, I hope not. Uh, no. We have Holly Solum, which she is a writer, but [00:01:00] she's also the host of Anthropology tv, as well as its creator and the person who was given the task of interviewing Timmy, bounce back. Holly, how are you?

Holly: I'm doing well. Thank you.

Yes, I, I discovered Timmy bounce back and he keeps bouncing back. Cannot get rid of Timmy. Bounce back.

Chesko: Keeps

on. You want bad advice, man? I'll give it out. Glad I got. Some good advice for you. No, you don't. I know you don't. I got some good advice for you. No, you don't. I know you don't. Shit,

Regan: what have I done?

I know. What? What have I started?

Chesko: Nailed it.

Regan: Nailed it, Holly. Oh my God. Okay, so. I just became aware of, like, I, I don't know how I missed your content, but recently I've been seeing you all over TikTok. We're new. We're new. It's brand new. [00:02:00]

Chesko: I, I'm pretty sure like how long, well, how long ago did you start posting stuff?

Holly: I. It three months. Yeah.

Chesko: So literally. So yeah. So it makes sense. Yeah. Brand new. So before I didn't even know you existed before three months ago. I

Holly: didn't exist. I actually just appeared. It just appeared

Regan: I was born a grown woman. So tell us a little bit about how you created this series, because it is so like, I cannot believe how amazing.

It's the way you walk up, you're like. So what's, what's wrong with you, Ben? What's wrong? Why are you like this?

Chesko: Yeah, why are you like this? Why are men

Regan: like this?

Chesko: I love, my favorite thing is that like it's not, you'll start off often with like, it seems like, oh, it's pleasant, and then why are you like this?

And they're like, what? I guess, yeah. So back to, not to good frank it. Question. Yeah. So how did you like come up with the idea for this.

Holly: Yeah, I, well, this is all kind of a fluke. I, I, I'm a writer. I write about my life. I'm a girl. Like I write, I feel like, I thought it was like gonna be girls that followed me, [00:03:00] and somehow all these men started following me on TikTok and I kind of was like, maybe I should just lean into it because I can't get rid of them.

So maybe I should make something for men. I should do like a man show. And, and I, and I just thought it would just be this funny thing like, oh, I'll just talk to men about being men. 'cause I'm a girl, I don't know anything about being a man. So I'll, I'll, you know, walk up to men and be like, how do I be a man?

What's going on with men? And, and that was sort of the genesis of the thought process. But I had, um, I started making a list of questions and I had gone pretty viral on threads like. Late last year for writing men, why are you like this?

Chesko: Mm-hmm.

Holly: It exploded into like millions and people were really, I'm sure

Chesko: nothing but positive.

Holly: Yes. It, it, it really hit some kind of nerve. Uh, imagine It actually scared me because it was so,

mm-hmm.

Like, people were [00:04:00] so upset and I Right. But it was also really interesting 'cause then, you know, other people were coming in and defending me and defending the question. And a lot of people like understood that it was kind of a, a mirror to like, how people feel about themselves is how they respond.

So when I was kind, uh, talking to my partner at Bespoke Media, who I, who helps produce the show, um. About my list of questions. He was like, well, maybe you should ask that question. And I was like, uh,

Regan: great.

Holly: Okay.

Regan: Trauma just starts pouring out.

Chesko: Like, I dunno

Regan: if that's the best idea. Well, I mean, it, it's funny that you're like, yeah, it was scary at a distance between screens.

And they're like, you should say that to their face. You should see what they say to you.

Holly: And then the first time I did it, it did not go well. Yeah. I mean the, the man got really upset with me and, and it was scary, but then, oh

no. But then it

went, I put it [00:05:00] online and it went viral and all these men were really mad at me, but then I was like, this is so interesting.

And it, mm-hmm. I think a part of me just was like fascinated by the reaction and it became something bigger than I'd ever anticipated. I didn't mean to like start some like feminist. Movement

Just,

and yet here we're, yeah,

yeah.

Here we're, it's just a, it's just a question, but it is sort of like a mirror of like what women deal with or what I deal with.

Mm-hmm. Like in my interactions with men, like to, to not be able to ask just a really basic open-ended question seems crazy. So, so then I leaned into it and now. Now I'm in danger. Now I'm in danger every day.

Chesko: Yeah. But you can see from watching their videos, how they're so much more willing to be openly vile online, like on threads or in the comment section than in person.

They're like, oh wait, I forgot. I actually [00:06:00] have to, even if they don't like what you're saying, it's still like it's a different. Or at least it feels, at least from what you post, like they're, they, you could see in their head like, oh yeah, normally I'd be angry about this, but I, I don't want, I, I want to keep talking to you.

And so why, why, so I have to figure out the best way to answer this without ending this interview.

Holly: Yeah. I mean, I try to, like, I try to just be very neutral in all of my interviews and, and it's supposed to be fun, like. I wanna have like a fun interaction and, and I'm not trying to be antagonistic in person.

Um, it's, it's just people just react the way they're reacting and I'm just like, the whole time just friendly and I. And having a good time, I think.

Regan: Yeah. I love that you said neutral. 'cause that's what I was thinking too, is, uh, your approach is so neutral. Like you have a pleasant smile most of the time that you're interviewing, but like the questions are neutral, the responses are neutral, [00:07:00] and really it ends up just being their own emotions that come out.

I feel like you do such a good job of that because they're, it is just themselves. Like they're essentially only playing with their own emotions. And yet they get so amped up and they say the wildest things to you and you're, you're like, here's an open-ended question. They're like, let me tell you my darkest secret.

Oh my

Holly: God. That is, it's fascinating. I can't believe the things men say to me on camera. I, I, it, I,

it is, it's wild,

crazy things to me. My whole life, since I was a little girl and. And I'm surprised that they're willing to just say the same kinds of things just out in the open on camera to my face.

Chesko: I think that's one of the, the coolest things about it, I think is because of the fact that you're not jumping in.

They can't just, they can't say you're like doing like a gotcha moment. They can't say you're doing some weird thing where you manipulated them into saying something weird. You're just asking a question and the willingness of them to just. Put [00:08:00] all that on display is just wild to me.

Holly: It is wild.

Chesko: Honestly, content is hard though too.

Like that's, yeah, I've tried it a few times and I You are much braver than I am

Holly: now. I am now it's like I'm, I'm like addicted to it. I'm like, I'm like, I'm at the front lines of the gender war

Regan: and I'm going, so I gotta know. What was it like? And you're viewing Timmy bounce back. Like, what?

Chesko: Let's, let's, uh, before we tell, let's just in case there are, 'cause we do have new listeners every week, let's play the video for, for anyone listening for the first time that may not have know the, the legend of Timmy Bounce back.

Regan: I'll never go away. So now you get to listen to yourself.

Timmy Bounceback: Here we go. No offense, but these are fucking facts. You guys will kill and destroy everything and anything. That's good.

Holly: I wanna talk about men

Timmy Bounceback: we're awesome.

Holly: Why are you awesome?

Timmy Bounceback: Because we're [00:09:00] simple. If you put five men in a room of every different religion, ethnicity, and age, the first thing that most men would do is try to find common ground.

Okay. What's your favorite food? What sports team do you watch? That's men. You put five women in a room of all ethnicities and all religions in all ages, and what they do is look at who the weakest one is and the strongest one is, and they pair up and they go, do you believe her hair? Do you believe that fucking purse she's wearing?

Look at those heels that bitch had surgery. We look for common ground. Women look to divide and conquer and kill. You guys will kill and destroy everything and anything. That's good. No offense, but these are fucking facts. I'm Timmy. Bounce back and I'm fucking back. [00:10:00]

Chesko: No offense. Just to make sure you're not, don't take any offense.

You will destroy. Fucking everything.

Holly: Kill and destroy everything. Watch women, we kill and destroy everything

Chesko: clearly to your face. Like that is such a wild thing to say. And then to, we talked about on the, on the, on the full show about it. The, uh, the, the sign it like, like, uh,

Holly: yeah, chippy bounces

Chesko: back,

bounce back, baby.

Regan: I'm like, where are you back from?

Can and like there's such an unhinged nature to the interview because he's delivering it straight to camera. Like he's not even looking at you.

Holly: Yeah. He was ready for this moment. He's been preparing for this moment for his whole life. He's been just waiting for me to walk up to him with a tiny microphone.

I guarantee you. He was like, oh my God. Yes.

Chesko: As he's been rehearsing in his bedroom mirror every evening. This is [00:11:00] what I'll say. If I'm ever in a street interview,

Regan: if women ever come up to me wanna know why the world is wrong, I'll tell 'em it's you.

Chesko: But the thing is, it was so well-rehearsed though, that you, it had to have been said at some, he had to have said it some point to somebody.

Like that's what he was ranting at the table about like.

Holly: I still don't know who he is. Like I've had some people

Timmy Bounceback: maybe bounces back.

Holly: That's his legal name

Timmy Bounceback: obviously.

Holly: I'm wondering if I should go back to, um, where was it filmed? Um, what's it called on Santa Monica? Bar

him course follow up interview. Oh

Chesko: my God. They'll be like, wait, wait. You spoke to Timmy of the bounce back clan? Yeah. A family bounce of house, bounce back.

Regan: What was energy like? When you were

Holly: talking to him, like what

Regan: was, what was he

Holly: like? I just put up the full interview on YouTube 'cause he talked for a good 10 minutes.

Chesko: No kidding. Shut

Holly: [00:12:00] down.

Chesko: Did you ask, did you ask him or did you just walk up to him and just, just kind of go for it?

Holly: I think it was pretty much as it is on the video. I just was like, Hey, I'm just asking about men. And he was Was ready, like, ready

to tell me everyth.

And, and everyone's like, oh, you're laughing because you agree.

And I'm like, I'm laughing. 'cause this is absurd.

Absolutely ridiculous.

And it's hilarious. He's like a clown. Yeah. I mean,

Regan: the second he said like, you just kill and destroy you like. Your eyes go to camera. Like, are is this for real right now? Like, is this happening?

Chesko: The whole, like the whole, you put any five men together and they will find common ground and love and have you ever met men?

Any men? Yeah. Um, and put five Timmy Bouncebacks in a room and they're gonna be fighting within

Regan: an hour immediately. They're, they're fighting. They're brawling for sure.

Chesko: Yeah.

Holly: Oh man.

I just, yeah, [00:13:00] there's no room for disagreement with Timmy Bounce back, so unless it's, they're all on the exact same page.

Right,

Regan: exactly. And again, like. I, I still laugh when he is like, you get five people of all ethnicities. It's like, because there's five

Chesko: of the five ethnicities, right? Of the uh,

Holly: the five ethnicities. Yeah, the five religions and five ethnicities, five ages. It's amazing.

Chesko: You, it's, it's amazing how it works out that evenly for everything.

Holly: It's like, have you ever met a woman?

Chesko: Yeah. No.

Holly: To a woman evers.

Chesko: Bye. I do, I do think it is the, it's representative of like, when you like put yourself in this bubble of this like red pill kind of misogynistic manosphere, like col and watch those videos, and you listen to those podcasts and you only hang out with those guys that only constantly complain about how terrible all women are.

Yeah. Then you start believing that, that there's, there is no alternate [00:14:00] viewpoint in the world.

Holly: They're getting indoctrinated. Mm-hmm. Some weird narrative about women being evil and manipulative. Mm-hmm. And killers and, right. They're killers. Yeah. I mean, obviously of course there are some bad manipulative right women, but it, it, but yeah, it's.

It's not our nature.

Regan: Well, and like the, there's something about these dudes, like, I feel like they almost always will do a weird voice for women. He is like, oh, have you seen her surgery? You're just like, and I,

Holly: not

Regan: so sexist. Right away. All women can talk about is handbags and surgeries. Like, come on. Like, what are you talking about?

Chesko: And, and the funniest thing, I think for a second, if you did put, give any real pushback to me, you'd be like, well, not you.

Holly: Maybe I. It's like the only thing he's ever seen of women is like the The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. It's only

Chesko: Are you saying that's not all women? What?

Holly: And I [00:15:00] love the Real Housewives.

Right? I love them. They're pretty savage, so I'll give him that if that's the only context of, but I

Chesko: think, I do think like if you don't actually interact with women. On a actual, uh, platonic, you know, friendship level. If you don't actually interact with them in a, in a position that's not trying to pick up on them, then it would be really easy to just believe Oh yeah, yeah.

They're just like the I see on TV because there's nobody I'm interacting with my life. That, that kind of contradicts that.

Holly: I mean, I think it, it is. Easy to feel that way about sort of any gender or any group of people. Mm-hmm. Like I know that, you know, my videos, the ones that blow up are the men that are really like, kind of douchey, controversial and it, it's sort of, it's a shame because a lot of the men I do talk to are wonderful.

Mm-hmm. And really cool. And. And I wish they got as much attention online mm-hmm. As the crazy guys. Right. [00:16:00] So I can see how like our, you know, what we see on the internet and what we see on TV is so different from reality that we get

mm-hmm.

It's easy to get very confused about who people are and what's really going on, when really, most of, most of everybody is just way more like in the middle.

Mm-hmm. Neutral. Mm-hmm.

Chesko: Well that, and that's kind of the point, like whenever I, uh, critique one of the guys, like the, one of the ones that blow up, you know, like these, these manosphere guys, my point is not all men are like this, right? Yeah. It's like, yeah, this is the shit that we should be critiquing so that people realize that there are, this is not the way all men have to be, right.

Uh, that there are, that we are willing to speak out against it, but they're like, no, you're critiquing all men. I'm like, what did I, and. I, this happens all the time. I'll get dms from guys usually 'cause they're afraid to say it in the comment section. And, and I'll, I'll, I'll engage with them and I'll say, okay, what specifically did I say?

I. That you had an issue with, and they're like, well, it's not, well, you didn't actually say anything. I'm like, well, tell me what, and we will go back and forth and I, I can, I don't screenshot these guys 'cause [00:17:00] I do feel like they're actually growing in certain points, but they'll, they'll end up apologizing to me.

I have over a hundred times now it's happened where somebody will be like, well, I'm sorry, I was just kind of like upset because blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, maybe listen to what people are saying online instead of just immediately. Assuming that it's an attack on all men everywhere. You know, you shouldn't have to say not all men.

In order for people to realize that, uh, you're not attacking those, just, just be better.

Holly: Yeah, totally. So many people are like, you hate men. And I'm like, not at all. I mean, whole, I've made a whole show where I'm just talking to men. Mm-hmm. Of course I don't hate men, but, um. Yeah, because a couple, I'm just, I'm just showing.

I'm just showing what's out there. They said that, they literally

Chesko: said that. You mentioned your partner's a man, right?

Holly: You hate this man. It's because you hate men. Not because I hate men. Right, right.

Chesko: I feel like you mentioned your partner's a man. It's like you that would shock them. Like what?

Holly: It doesn't fit.

Yeah. My partner create, who helps me [00:18:00] create the show is a man.

Chesko: I think Gilo gets it a lot. She's like, I'm literally, you've seen my, my fiance or boyfriend. I don't know if their, what their relationship is, but she has that, you know, this beautiful ripped man fiance, uh, that that's with her. And, and everyone was like, well, I thought you hate man.

She was like, not him, not, she's like, not nice, but yeah, not, not the guys. They're, they're very specific what I'm talking about.

Regan: Yeah. So what, my question, what is the energy like, like with, for example, with, uh, Timmy bounce back. When you are interviewing them because it's one thing to like watch an interview happen and I assume it's completely different to be in the interview.

Holly: I mean, Timmy bounced back was was fun like, 'cause there was nothing intimidating or scary about him. You can't say that to

Regan: Timmy

Holly: though, you very upset. He's back. Tim was like, I'm a star. Like he was like got out his like baton and started tap dancing is what it felt like. Yeah. And he was just like, [00:19:00] ready to go.

He was such a fun interview because he was mm-hmm. So game. Yeah. And willing and wanting to be part of this. Um, it's so different with like, I really never know what to expect when I'm walking up to people. I'm just going and I don't really like. I just sort of walk up to everyone and I'm like, Hey, hi, can I talk to you about being a man?

Chesko: And, and this, it is funny you say that 'cause I, I didn't hate Timmy bounce back. Like, like it, it was fun watching him, right? Yeah. I don't think I would get along with Timmy, but, but it's, but it wasn't like, it was like, oh this guy's this evil human being that I hate. 'cause there are people like, you know, they, he's, he, this guy Timmy Ack is not agitate, right?

He is not this, this evil figure online. He's just this. Weirdo.

Holly: He's like a goofball.

Chesko: Yeah, that's exactly it.

Holly: It's like he's, it's he's in, he's not right. But like, it's funny, right? He's, he's entertainment. Mm-hmm. Some of these guys are entertaining. Some of them are, [00:20:00] uh, legitimately scary. Yeah. Um, yeah. There was one, there was one that I was, that, that we ended up, like me and my camera girl ended up running out of the.

Place where we were, where we

Chesko: were. No kidding.

Holly: Like running, like booking it. And I, I was gonna

Chesko: ask, is there any that you haven't posted online because of like safety issues or concerns or anything like that? Um,

Holly: I was really hesitant to post, I really blew up on TikTok. I, it's,

Chesko: it's

Holly: got over a million views on TikTok, the scary one.

Oh wow.

Um, so there's some weird interactions out there. Um. Yeah, for the most part people are, it's more neutral. Like people are mostly friendly or sort of indifferent or like, there's not, it's not that exciting. Um, and then some people are like, yeah, really just like excited to be on camera or to like be on TV and

mm-hmm.

Some people are really. Excited to, to try to make a difference and to say something meaningful. And then some people are, [00:21:00] you know, it just runs the gamut. Right.

Regan: What, what was this, what did the scary, what was the, the content of the scary guy's? Like what was his message that was intimidating?

Holly: Oh, the scary guy was in Bakersfield.

We went to a, um, like a, like a. County fair kind of thing. Oh, God

Chesko: is, oh, is it the guy with the, the hoodie and like the glasses on his hat?

Holly: Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he, and I ask him like, Hey, I'm just asking men why are you like this? And he's like, what the fuck does that mean? And it just, I, the hatred in his eyes was so palpable.

Terrifying. But I just was like, hold your ground, Holly. Hold your ground. Stay steady, Holly, stand here and just don't let him intimidate you. Right. Like I'm going continue to ask him why this is a problem for him.

Mm-hmm.

And it turned into like a game of I know you are, but what am I [00:22:00]

Chesko: so mature? That's because that, that really is the, you know, why don't we just, since we're talking about it, do you wanna play, uh, Reagan?

Do you want me to send you the link and, yeah. Because don't know what we're talking about. I, I'm always, I'm always thinking about the listener so they can. They don't have to then scramble to, uh, yeah, yeah. Whenever Scary. What they could be hearing this six months ago, and then they'll, uh, uh, end up like, they'll be like, which one was it?

I wanna know who the guy was. Okay. So let's just, just for the sake of everyone being on the same page, I texted you, Reagan.

Regan: Oh, I'm already scared. Okay. No, I'm scared too. It's not happening now. Okay. Here we go.

Weirdo: What the fuck is that supposed to mean? How

Holly: you guys, how are you

Weirdo: Doing? Well, how are you?

Holly: Good.

I'm trying to, um, ask men, why are you like this?

Weirdo: What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Are you guys plane?

Holly: You don't like that question? It just means like, why are men the way they are?

Weirdo: Are you serious right now?

Holly: Yeah.

Weirdo: Why are you the way you are?

Holly: Well, a lot of things because, okay. [00:23:00] Well, I'm a

Weirdo: lot of things too.

Holly: Why does that upset you?

Weirdo: You think I'm upset?

Holly: Seem irritated.

Weirdo: You seem irritated. Is it a joke?

Holly: Yeah, it's supposed to be fun and lighthearted because I think that

Weirdo: was a statement. I didn't think it was a joke.

Holly: No. I don't know why you're getting defensive.

Weirdo: I'm not getting defensive. Are you getting defensive?

Holly: You seem very angry.

Weirdo: Cool. What's next?

Holly: What's the manliest thing about you?

Weirdo: What's the girliest thing about you?

Holly: Probably my hair. So you're, so you're

Weirdo: assuming that I'm a man. Is that where we're going with this?

Holly: Are you,

Weirdo: are you a female?

Holly: Yeah. Yeah.

Weirdo: Cool.

Holly: Ah, they stole my idea.

Regan: That's crazy. Well, you know what's funny, it's his, in his, uh, intimidation and or trying to rile you up.

Didn't work.

Chesko: Right. And that made more. And so you made could tell he was on a

Regan: standstill. He was like, he thought he was gonna say something. You'd be like, uh, and you're like, no, I'll answer you. Okay. Right. It's weird though, because. When you said that, I was definitely picturing more of like an like, like outwardly angry kind of conversation, but this is like [00:24:00] seething.

Holly: Mm-hmm. It

was his, his express, like you can't even see it on the video. The way he was looking at me was so filled with rage and hate. It was just, it was terrifying. And my videographer also. Felt it and it was just fun.

Yeah,

it was really strange. I just didn't, I'm like, why? Why so much rage? Why so much anger?

What. What happened? Why, why do you hate women? It

Chesko: definitely feels like it's the, the, in his life, in his own, once again bubble. No one would dare to ques to, to come at him and dare question and speak to him like that. In his mind, you were, you would, you would cross some boundary that he had made up that, that you like, that he could not even fathom a woman.

A lesser being right in his mind and clearly in this guy's mind. Uh, that would would dare to, to say something that could [00:25:00] possibly be construed as an, an offensive question and to question why he's is the way he is. Um, and that that anger was you, you're right, is palpable. Even through the video, you can just feel.

This like disdain that you don't, it feels like, like out of a movie from the past, right? Like this is like another era. Yeah. That, that you're watching.

Holly: Yeah. It's like something just snapped. And then after I walked away mm-hmm. I, I, I was so shaken. I was like, I don't think I can do any more interviews.

Like, I just feel like the vibes are off. And then we, we looked and we saw he had like, had a friend all of a sudden and they were staring at us. And that's when I was like, we need to get outta here. Yeah. We need to go. And we just, good instincts. We started. Good. I'm not even sure if I should be saying this publicly, like admitting the fear of how scary that was.

Mm-hmm.

Regan: I think you should though, because it's, it's important to understand that like just by doing like, [00:26:00] which is, you know, it's a fun setup. Like you're just doing like this, this street style interview, the fact that. A man could be get so irate. Mm-hmm. At a simple question with, with no like judgment. I mean, literally it's just like, why even like this, like, it's not like you say it in a demeaning way.

Mm-hmm. And to have, I guess what's alarming to me is like. A simple question. Got that response. Mm-hmm. Imagine if a woman legitimately crossed him. Mm-hmm. Or legitimately upset him or did something to him or didn't do something the right way. Imagine him in a power position, like this was a street interview with a camera on him.

That's how he treated you like. That is scary. And it's important to see like how quickly things turn because there's so many people who are like, just be nice, you know. That, that, you know, if, if you treat people with respect that bad things won't happen. They wanna put the blame on women in these situations.

But like you asked a simple question and [00:27:00] that's how he responded, and then all of a sudden he's got a friend and you guys have to get out of there. Yeah. And we're in danger now because

Holly: of. Because of what? Like what? How? Because I exist. Yeah.

Chesko: Mm-hmm. And you even di you, you deescalated it perfectly. Right?

Or like, what should have been perfectly, like, were you even like, okay, I'm not even gonna push this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go, you know, this is clearly a guy that feels, he's very manly. What's the manliest thing about you? That's like the perfect shift. You can write a better follow up. Theoretically that could shift it to him being like, oh yeah, I don't mind talking about that.

Yeah. Uh, but he was still just so in that anger, they couldn't even, that he, that he tried to do that weird, like, I, why are you assuming I'm a man?

Holly: Yeah. What was that? That's, that's

Chesko: the part, like what wait, is this, is this person, all of a sudden now a gender like, is like he cares.

Regan: I think he made an assumption about you or, or why, maybe you're asking the question.

Mm-hmm. And that probably pissed him off even more is because now he's on tape like saying. Don't assume I'm a [00:28:00] man, which like, to me, that's fine, but like to him, I doubt that's how he wants to be seen, you know? Totally. I'm like, okay, well, are you a man? I mean, I'm so

Chesko: sorry. I, I think we need to promote this guy as like this hero for trans people.

Like he's, he, he's like, no, don't assume I gender based on this. I shouldn't. They

Regan: hate, hate when they do that. Like they'll, they'll say something like that as a gotcha. And then when they do, when you're not got, they're like, oh shit. I, what did I say? But I mean, I, I really, I find that almost more scary than like, out outwardly scary people.

Like when someone has that, like calmness to them and they're being really scary, uh, because it seems like they are in control, which I think is, is kind of frightening. Uh, and again, what, what have like a, a scary reaction to the simplest of questions.

Holly: Mm-hmm.

Regan: It was quick too because you had the, hi, how are you?

Which seemed to go across fine.

Holly: I think he's friendly in the, in the beginning I think he thought I was like coming up to flirt with [00:29:00] him or something.

Mm-hmm. Which

I think a lot of people do.

Regan: Your mustache is so sexy. This is the interview. Like, uh, no, no. What's your number? That's my question. Uh, yeah. It's, it is really like the how quickly situations and encounters can turn Scary to me is, is really.

Frightening and,

Holly: and

Regan: eyeopening.

Holly: I mean, and that's the reality of being a woman in the world though. Mm-hmm. Like things can turn very scary very quickly for no reason. Mm-hmm.

Chesko: Often.

Holly: Mm-hmm. With no cameras on, right?

Chesko: Mm-hmm. And it was, I think it might have been part of his disappointment of that. You were, you figured, oh, she's not flirting with me.

Uh, you know, maybe

Holly: I would've if he'd did, sir. Could have gone there.

Chesko: Can you say speaking on that though, I think it's really, uh, fat. That's one. Another thing I think is fascinating about your videos though, is you're not like, like openly flirting in any way. That is like. [00:30:00] Traditional. You're just being nice.

Right? I'm just being friendly. You're just, you're just being a friendly person. Yeah. And how many of the guys that you talk to though, immediately go toward, like, basically hitting on you in that moment where it's, it's like, there's one I want, I want to show also that I said Reagan. Um, the, the guy that, uh, the older model, uh, oh

Holly: my god.

Yeah. Yeah.

Regan: Model,

Holly: model.

Chesko: Here, wait, just before, once again, before we talk about it, uh, I wanna get to why you play it real quick. 'cause this is when I can't stop thinking about this video.

Holly: Do you date women

your own age?

Old Guy: I'm not attracted to all. There's very few that are really attractive.

Holly: I'm asking men, why are you like this?

Old Guy: I just bought something peaceful to do. I just did a runway show in Milan. I've been a cover of a magazine.

Holly: You're

Old Guy: on the cover of a magazine? Yes. And a book as well. Four

Holly: books. Are you a famous model?

Old Guy: I wouldn't say a famous model, but I've been modeling for a while. Okay. Have you done any modeling?

Holly: Yes,

Old Guy: I'm retired.

You retired

Holly: because I'm old now. Well,

Old Guy: it's different for men. Women age differently.

Holly: What age women do you date?

Old Guy: [00:31:00] 23 to 33.

Holly: How old are you?

Old Guy: I'm be 53 this year.

Holly: Do you date women your own age?

Old Guy: No, there's no, there's no, I'm not attracted to 'em. There's very few that are really attractive. I mean, I didn't make this world.

It's just the way it is. Yeah. Our girls not are attracted to you if you don't have money,

Holly: why does it stop at 33?

Old Guy: Because if you get into a nice, long relationship, you've got at least 10 years where you're really attracted to her. I age way better than most people. Like I've got really nice skin. I'm really fit.

I'm flexible. I'm fast.

Holly: Can you give me an example of how flexible you are?

Old Guy: Do this. I'm glad you're laughing. This is a good start. I What's your age? You, are you picking up on me? Are you flirting? I don't, I know. See, you're a, you're a classy woman. How

Holly: old do you think I am? 30.

If I'm 32, I only have one more year left to date you, but

Old Guy: if I start a relationship with a woman that's 50, then what, like in five years should be 55.

Holly: But you're gonna [00:32:00] be like 90 in five years.

Old Guy: Yeah. You're old. But I, I'm, I'm major unusually though.

Holly: I'm gonna tell you how old I really am.

Old Guy: Damn. You feel really good though. You have a nice,

Holly: so this is the, I'm 42, so would you not date

Regan: me?

Old Guy: Yes, I would. I would date you actually.

Regan: Oh, okay. Hold on, hold on. Not him grabbing your thigh.

There's a lot to unpack

Chesko: in this. Yeah. There's so much time about listeners.

Regan: He straight up reaches over and grabs her thigh, which you had. Mm-hmm. Shorts on or skirt. Anyways, you had, you could see, so that's bear skin. Uh, also the splits. What do you do? You know how fast you can get some guys to do a, like a split or a back flip or whatever, A cartwheel.

You're like, oh, are you strong? Show me. They're like, yes, right now.

Holly: I know, and then he grabbed my thigh like he was checking his produce. Yeah, he did. He said like tight

Chesko: way he grabbed it. It was not even, it was, it was such a weird way to [00:33:00] not, there's a, not, I don't think there is a like, not weird way to grab a stranger's thigh, like in, in, in a, that you just met, but like, especially if you're gonna make it as weird as possible, it was just, it was an examination of your thigh, like you said, like you're checking pro.

That was such a weird, because he, I mean, that's. Probably the best description. 'cause that's exactly how he was treating you. Yeah. It was

Holly: like, how old are you? And he's like, squeeze my thigh to find out.

Chesko: Yeah,

Holly: I'm ripe. So

Chesko: weird.

Holly: Ripe.

Chesko: And the, the, you notice how quickly he goes from when he thought you were in your thirties.

Uh, and he was like, oh yeah, that's the most I I would still, I date, will you? 32, I'd date you. And then he finds out how old you are, immediately throws it out the window. He is like, well, I'm trying to get laid. Yeah. So I'm gonna pretend too. Okay, that's fine. I'll do, you know what, I'll let it slide for this one time.

I'll do you a favor. Yeah.

Regan: Lucky me.

Chesko: Oh man.

Regan: So weird. The, the 23, like 33 is bad. He [00:34:00] said he is in his fifties, 23.

Holly: So. Women have been DMing me mm-hmm. That

have

met him on the Santa Monica Promenade where I met him.

Mm-hmm.

And one of his ex-girlfriends DMed me and Wow. He even has commented on his own video being like, I know most of these comments are negative, but it's still cool.

He's.

Chesko: He just loves the attention.

Regan: Do you see how good looking I am in that?

Chesko: I care when you said, uh, in five years you'll be 90. The first I literally dropped my phone because he, and he, it didn't even sway him though. He was like, I don't care. I'm focused in on trying to like, like to hit on you, but like.

That was such a, and the fact that you're smiling while saying it in such a nice way that it, it totally did not, I like, if I'm watching this later, I barely, he probably didn't even hear it, or like, he didn't even notice what, that's what you said. It's such a, [00:35:00] it's such an amazing burn.

Holly: He's like,

Regan: I'm a model.

I'm a, he'd have to be listening to a woman speak in order to hear that. That's good point. You don't listen to produce. Right. I don't, and it's so funny 'cause you're sitting, like, you're sitting on those two chairs, so your legs are kind of dangling. So you do look like kind of young, you know, like young person.

But like, you can tell he almost has that, like he's trying to like give you dad vibes or something. Like he's trying to be the like, cool older man. It's like, bro. Ew. Like how does bragging about how young you like women, like how do you think that comes off? Because clearly he thinks it's charming,

Chesko: right?

Holly: Yeah. He thinks he's like gotten away with something. He's like special. He's better than other men because he's aging differently and he can date 20 year olds. And

Chesko: the thing. He, he looks fifties. Like it's not like he doesn't, not like a bad, like he looks good for a fi, like a fi, but he looks, I'm not, like when he said his age, I wasn't like, no, [00:36:00] not him.

You

Regan: mean his father? Because that's clearly a young man.

Chesko: I'm 43. I'm like, there's no nothing. I'm never like, uh, you'll never guess how old I am. I'm like, you're gonna, I'm like, I'm 43. I've never expected people to be like, no, and no. No. I never would've guessed such a thing. Yeah,

Holly: I know. I was like, yeah, you look 50. Yeah. Sure. You look like you maybe were on the cover of some kind of romance novel.

Right. He's like, I'm on the cover of the book.

Regan: Yeah. A

Chesko: book. I I bet you were. That's great.

Regan: Yes. What was it? Yeah, what was the, the love about, the love story about? It's hard for me because like you can tell how suave he thinks he is. You're like, he is like Rico Suave. You're like, no, no, I saying that you were a model.

I do love that you have modeling history. So he really, you are like. Same. And you know, it's like he had, he was like, shit, uh, well, [00:37:00] you know, I, I walked one time and knew that was supposed

Chesko: to, that was supposed to impress you. I know

Regan: exactly. Like I know models. I worked with them. Oh shit. If

Chesko: you were a model, you've actually probably met other models before.

Holly: Nail models.

Chesko: Oh no.

Holly: That's not something I brag about. Right. Why, sorry. Male models.

Regan: Sorry. Male models. I love you. I, you know, I don't know that we have a, a high population of male models listening. Not, not

Chesko: all male models, right? Not

Regan: all male models, not all male.

Chesko: I, I, I've done, I do, uh, photography on the side, uh, and I, I've shot with some male models before, like some cosplay, uh, guys that are like, if you're, uh, what's his name?

Just got him. Jensen, I forgot his last name. Um, but they're, they're like, there's beautiful men that are actually cool guys. And then there's beautiful men that I'm like, I fucking hate you. Yeah. Like, yeah, like some, whenever I meet like one of those, like a, a model, like a guy that's like this Adonis guy that's actually super chill, I'm like, that's not fair.

Yeah, you're not supposed to be that good looking [00:38:00] and actually this nice, what the

Holly: fuck? I know, I mean, most of us girls really don't like good looking men if they're too good looking. It's like sus

Chesko: you do. I mean, it, it is, uh, I think because of, you know, not to, not to get too serious when we look at our, the way our society rewards beauty though, too, and especially if you are a man in our society, that's already rewarded simply for being a man.

Right. And then you also have. Pretty privilege as along with that, uh, it's, it's very easy, I think to then just let that go to your head and just kind of float around the world as if you are literally God's gift to everyone around you, what you're seeing. And this

Holly: man thinks he's that good looking.

Mm-hmm. But that's, that is, how do you like to have that level of delusion? Must be so fun. How great world. What a, what a world. I know. What a world well

Chesko: model that. I wish I could have that.

Regan: Yeah. It's also weird that like he's so impressed by himself in the fact that [00:39:00] he's saying, I can date younger women.

But then he says that. Didn't he mention like money, like you have to have money to date younger women. Yeah. And it's like, so you're admitting mm-hmm. You have to, that it's your money. Like, and so it's like, I, I don't know any woman because he is speaking to you. It's like mm-hmm. The idea that he thought you as a woman would be impressed with his ability to date younger women, like young women, 23 year olds, like.

Uh, we don't think that's cool. No, because my interpretation of that is always like, you must have something going on where women your own age don't wanna be with

Holly: you.

Regan: Mm-hmm. That's my interpretation. When, when men exclusively date younger women, I'm like, okay, so you can't be with women your age or you're so misogynistic that you don't see women as people and see them as objects, and you want the newest model one or the other, but neither is good.

Holly: Exactly. I mean, that's exactly what it is. It's just like, you're so immature, you're so [00:40:00] stunted, or whatever it is. Mm-hmm.

But

I mean, you know, on the other hand, I've, a lot of people are like, oh, but age gaps are blah, blah, blah, normal. Listen, I don't have a problem with age gaps. It's not, that's not the issue here.

Mm-hmm.

It's a man saying like, older women are icky, is what my problem is with like

mm-hmm.

Date younger people, date older people like I don't give a fuck. But when you're saying like, women past X age are gross, that's mm-hmm. That's where I take offense. Right. And then I'm like, well, I am past that age.

Okay, so do you think I'm gross?

Mm-hmm.

Like, what? What you, and then I'm like, okay, well all my girlfriends look like me.

Mm-hmm.

Gross. Okay. Well, not them, but you are

Regan: living proof that everything he's saying is incorrect. And it's amazing. He is like, gotcha. It's a gotcha interview unintentionally. And not, not this one.

And not you in particular. It's like just admit. Just admit this is your own issue. This has nothing to do with women, nothing to do with their age. This has to do with like misogyny. This has to do with your inability to get with women at a certain [00:41:00] age. Mm-hmm. But like, I, I just love a moment like that when he's like, clearly attracted to you, made that known.

And then you'd be like, I was gonna get with you, but I'm too old. Sorry. No, no,

Chesko: no. I have no principles. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I'm just kidding. I was, I was joking. Delete, delete.

Holly: Unfortunately, he's not the only guy that I've had this interaction with where I'm like, oh, I guess I'm too old for you.

Bye. Gotcha. Kidding. Sorry. I love,

Regan: I love when you can just be like, and you're wrong and, and you've just dug your own grave. And I'm sorry, except I'm not sorry. Really?

Chesko: That's, we, we've talked about age gaps before, uh, on this podcast before too, and I think that's the, the consensus we've always said it's not the age gap necessarily.

I mean, some age gaps are creepy regardless. Some are creepy. Yeah. Uh, but like, it, it's, it's the guys that are specifically seeking out. That lower, you know, 21, 18-year-old age range that are my age and older. That, that's weird. That's, that is, it's, it's when you are specifically seeking out young women [00:42:00] for, for either because you think old women are older women, is it old women, old?

Any women over a certain age is quote unquote gross. Like this guy said? Yeah. Or because you know that you, it's easier to manipulate or impress, uh, someone of a certain age that's still in college. Fresh outta high school. Like there, there's, there's always a reason why you're seeking out someone at that much of a younger age, uh, consistently, right?

It, it's, I'm not, I'm not gonna say it's not possible. You can meet someone that was, uh, had a age gap. If, for whatever reason you had something in common that could happen. It's this, it's these ones that are specifically eliminating. Any woman of a certain age, simply because they know either one, they won't put up with their shit.

Two, that they're gonna find out how terrible they are at doing all the things that you do in a relationship. Or three, that they know that they're not nearly as impressive in any sort of other way. Uh, to a woman that is actually dated someone out of high school before.

Holly: I mean, it [00:43:00] is shocking, like also how many.

Even just how many videos I have of men saying they won't even date women their own age. A guy in his thirties who's 32, I have a video of him saying, I won't date anyone over 27 years old. And he has his age limits set on his dating app. So he can't meet anyone who's his age because all the good ones are taken.

So the ones who are left must be damaged. Some, I mean, he literally calls them damaged. And what does that make you, sir? And right? What is your story then? And, and it's, it's like common. It's like mm-hmm. This is like, not that I, it's, it's more common than I knew.

Chesko: Mm-hmm. It's, they're, they're seeking out, uh, and this is for so many different of these themes, they're seeking out partners to impress other men as opposed to partners that they like.

'cause there's a lot of men that are absolutely attracted to beautiful women that are, are, that are bigger. Uh, but they were, they're afraid to actually [00:44:00] go after what they're attracted to because they're afraid it won't be impressive to other men. Right. And same thing goes for age, same thing goes for all these different things where they will not seek out or they, they don't.

They don't even necessarily have a preference. 'cause a lot of 'em don't even like women at all. Um, yeah, yeah. And they, and so they're, they're completely the sole purpose of a partner is so they can show off literally as a trophy to the guy, their, their friends. Like, look at this, look what I found, look what I got.

Um, which is such a sad way to approach relationships, like not even just a, on a pure misogynistic level, but is a sad way to live your life, uh, to, to just only want somebody for the sake of impressing people that aren't. Not them.

Holly: Yeah. I mean I think that's really, I'm like, is that an LA thing? Because I feel like it happens on both sides.

People are just sort of like, oh, this is the right, right in the right box. Mm-hmm. So I will just partner with you whether I like you or not.

Yeah.

Regan: How is your experience, uh, because there, now I've [00:45:00] seen a couple videos where you're interviewing someone who is. Saying like offensive, degrading, or demeaning things and simultaneously hitting on you.

It's like I, I know that you're a professional and you've been doing this a while. Like how does it feel in those moments when you're on camera and these guys are doing that? I.

Holly: I mean, I, I don't, I really, it's interesting because like, I think my sort of innate trauma response is fawn

and freeze.

Mm-hmm.

And just to sort of fawn and be nice to people. And that's kind of how I've like. Survived in the world is by that, is the trauma response that comes up. Mm-hmm. So it really works well for this show because I kind of go right into like placating people and making them feel comfortable. And then I'm also like, well, I wanna keep them talking.

So I'm, I'm just trying to show like, interest in what they're saying, rather, I'm not trying to argue with them [00:46:00] or like. Uh, you know, have any sort of conflict. Like, I just wanna

keep

talking and keep trying to understand what they're saying. So I kind of just. There is like a little part of me that's going like, oh my God, I can't believe he's actually saying what he's saying to me on camera right now.

This is incredible. But it's, it's, there's like a higher self or something that comes in and is like, this is very interesting. So like Right job,

Regan: this will be viral. I, I'll just keep going.

Holly: It's, it's fascinating. It really is, and I'm just endlessly surprised.

Chesko: Do you have a, uh, do you have a favorite one you've done so far, like in a positive way, I guess.

Holly: I am like trying to think, uh, in a PO like in a positive way. Like someone I really like, I guess when

Chesko: you've walked away and you're like, I'm really, like, that was, that was, I didn't expect that. And this was like, you know, where you don't walk away [00:47:00] terrified or, or feeling objectified. I, I guess we're, was there anybody that, that surprised you?

Positive? Yeah. I mean there was like

Holly: a couple. There, there have been some, some of them are definitely like very heartwarming and I'm like, gosh, that was such a nice interaction. Like I really liked, um, there was a guy that like fed me goat cheese. He was very.

Regan: You know what? I'll take it over the other things.

Holly: He was like, his reaction to the question was, I was like, why are men like this? Or Why are you like this? And he was like, what kind? Like generous, thoughtful, and I was like. This is such a great example of how this can be answered, right? This was first reaction that's in immediately what he thought was kind, generous, and loving.

And then he fed me goat cheese. Um. That was generous. There are some guys that are just like so sweet and playful that it's just like [00:48:00] fun and mm-hmm. And it makes me feel like, oh my God, men are good. There are so many good men. I, I wish these men would go viral. Right. Um, there's, oh, when we went to the USC like frat row, I just like walked up and down frat row and was doing, oh,

Chesko: Jesus.

That's amazing.

Holly: And I really thought they were going to be douchey, but they were all so, so nice. These boys that were like 19 and 20. And I was like, well, maybe it's just generational. Like are they young guys? Like just more aware or are they just saying the right things? Because they were all very sweet and non-reactive or reacting like with, you know, they were happy to like talk about this.

Chesko: I do think there, there are young men. 'cause I have, I have a growing young male population that's following me. Like guys in their twenties and like even late teens, uh, that, uh, are, are responding to a lot of my videos and I think they [00:49:00] are. I. They're seeking better role models right now. I think they're noticing, at least they're aware that the role models that are out there for guys when it comes to relationships, when it co comes to just talking about women are not great.

Right? And, and, and I think there was a whole wave of about 10 to 15 years, I mean, longer than that for misogyny and patriarchy in general, but like as far as like these, these, the rise of these, these man influencers, um, online that did not. Hear those critiques. There weren't a lot of people saying like pushing back against, like Andrew Tate is the biggest one, but like the Andrew Tate sneak, uh, fresh and fit, like these other big podcast guys that were coming out there.

And so all these, these young boys that were coming up, these teenagers were coming up, they were listening to their, looking for guys to listen to and there wasn't any real alternative or pushback to them, um, because it was all, everything was else was coming up at the same time. So I do think there is.

It'll be interesting to see how that shifts and, and hopefully your experience at USC is a, is a [00:50:00] sign that maybe there is some change happening, uh, and that they, these guys are finding other outlets of people that are, aren't just openly hostile toward women on the internet. Um. You know, I, I would, I'm gonna say positively that I'm hoping that is a, a good sign and not that you just had a really good experience.

Holly: Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's like a, there, there needs to be some positive masculinity, which is something that you put into the world. Mm-hmm. And. And yeah, I guess people need somebody to look up to and to follow. And, and I do hear a lot of men on the streets. The men on the streets saying like, you know, men need a place to go.

They need a place to talk. Like they need places to, yeah. To commune and to, to have somebody have leadership and somebody to look towards. Mm-hmm. And so. I don't know.

Chesko: Yeah, that's what Reagan and I were talking on the pre-show about the uh, uh, that, [00:51:00] exactly that kind of the, the idea that women also have been saying all the, these things online for, for this long.

But, but who do men listen to? They're, they're waiting to hear another guy say it. Yeah. Before it's acceptable for it's okay to hear it. Uh, and that goes for so many things that goes for racist things at the end that goes for homophobic things in the end that goes for, unless they're hearing someone that looks and, and.

Experiences the world the way they do, it's so much easier for them to just write it off and pretend like it's not actual. Reality.

Holly: Yeah. I mean that was, that's why I started my anthropology. I was like, I'm gonna show men, men, like men wanna see themselves. So I'll show men. Men and then mm-hmm. Men are like so mad to see, no, we don't wanna see us.

Get that outta here.

Show get outta, outta. I really

Chesko: do think that's the wildest thing though. 'cause you're not. Like editing it out of context. Yeah. You're not purposely going out there and doing these things that are setting up men to look bad. You're [00:52:00] simply like, here's a microphone, and of course the ones that are going viral are these guys that are just like, finally,

here's my chance

to prove you wrong.

By literally embodying everything that led up to why this question is even being asked to begin with.

Regan: Yeah. They proved the point. Speaking of anthropology, where can people find you, Holly? How can they see your content?

Holly: Well, my Instagram is at Holly m Sola, and then we have a new Instagram for anthropology tv.

Which is at Anthropology tv. Um, TikTok, you can find me at Holly m Sola, and I think you can also put a, at anthropology, either one will take you to the same place. So,

Regan: yeah, I love it so much. And I think like to, to this whole conversation's point, just like how eye-opening it is, it really is like a window into these men's perspectives [00:53:00] because.

It actually is a neutral question. It's just that there is a lot of manosphere talk about how women feel about men. And so they're taking that bias into the conversation and assuming maybe that your intent is negative, maybe you're saying, why are you like this? Uh, and so it's, it's really, it's fascinating to see.

What they feel kind of being projected onto you as to this is what your intent is and I'm gonna react accordingly.

Holly: It is kind of an anthropological studies. Oh, and then I also have a, a Substack, which is Holly Wood, W-O-U-L-D. And I write a lot about like, you know, I write about my personal life, which now has a lot to do with making anthropology.

I think

Chesko: it would be interesting not to, not to like give you. Content ideas. I'm sure you have plenty on your own. I think it be fascinating to see. You going out and, and having a, a man also asking the question [00:54:00] and to see how differently men react to a man saying, why are men like this versus Awo? And see if they are as openly hostile or if it's more like, well, you know, like if, if it's a, that could be interesting, like back to back kind of a That's

Holly: no, I'm, I'm glad you said that because yeah, there is someone I'm teaming up with to do some, some great stuff, a man in a few weeks and we're trying to kind of figure out like what, how we.

How we do exactly what you just said. So

Chesko: yeah, I look forward to that. It's gonna be great. Yeah, so thank you.

Regan: Can't wait. All right. Well thank you so much for being with us, Holly, so much for having me. This is so fun. Well, we will be continuing to look at your content and candidly, I kind of hope Timmy does not bounce back.

I, I hope you don't run into him again.

Chesko: I hope that is the peak of his fame. And, uh, and next week our guest is Timmy Bass.

Regan: I'll not, you'll not see me on that call 'cause I would be like, what? Destroying the world really? Timmy. Timmy. What [00:55:00] was your home life like?

Chesko: I'm putting it out there. I will interview Timmy Bounceback for something if I am, if he wants to, I will personally do a one-on-one.

Regan: Oh wow. Timmy's coming on for sure. I doubt Timmy's listening, to be honest with you. I don't think this is his cup of tea.

Chesko: Probably not. You don't think

Regan: so? No. All right. Well, thank you to everyone for listening. Thank you so much, Holly, for being here. Thanks again and we will see you all next week.

Chesko: Bye. Love you all.

Regan: Bye.