Shelley Alward-MacLeod 0:00 You're listening to Within our Reach, a podcast by reachAbility Association that focuses on accessibility, inclusion and leveling the playing field at work and in your community. My name is Shelly Alward MacLeod and my co host, Blake Hunsley, and today we're joined by reachability therapy dog handler Evan Dobbie to talk about caregiving for ailing parents.

Blake Hunsley 0:22 Yeah, they enjoyed the episodes of it, no, because

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 0:25 I was in my head. It's Dobbie, not Doe-bie, right? Yeah, it's Dobbie so. But that thought went through my head, and then I completely messed up the rest of it, because, you know, like my brain was going this way, but my words need to go this way.

Blake Hunsley 0:39 See, I figured you were just making fun of me for who say we're talking about ailing caregiving for ailing parents. Enjoy this lighthearted romp, yeah, that's the joke we're going for today. We should say to Evan, happy birthday. You joined us on your birthday to talk about not the most lighthearted topic. So sorry, that's your birthday

Evan Dobbie 0:58 present, having to Yeah, I'm comfortable with it. It seems like a strangely apt occasion.

Blake Hunsley 1:05 Yeah, well, I mean, as Shelley and I were talking before the podcast, when I realized both of you have had more experience on this topic than I had remembered. And, you know, fortunately, I don't have that much direct yet, but I'm heading that way. And, but you two, both, both have a lot of experience, and Sarah, Evan, in particular, you. So why don't you tell us, I guess, to start. What age were you when you started caring for your parents when they first got ill? I suppose the best place to start,

Evan Dobbie 1:32 okay, yeah, that would. So I suppose I started, kind of like partially being a caregiver for my mother. Probably by about high school, I was already doing, like, some caregiving for her, and then, in an increase, increasing fashion, through my late teens, early 20s, when I was in university, I was away for undergrad, but when I'd be home, yeah, I'd be helping out my father. And then by the time I finished my second degree, and I was coming out of university there, and I was I was back in Halifax, and so I was around the parents a bit more, able to see my mother's decline and my father's struggle with caring for her. And then right after the summer, after I finished my other degree, she had another one of many small heart attacks and ended up in the hospital again. And so I was finishing my lease, so I was figured, all right, I'll go home and spend a couple months and help get mom back on her feet, give dad a breather. And by the time I got home, yeah, quickly, three to six months, and then looking around and realizing that this was going to be a bit more investment, but not really still aware of, like, how long it would take. And then that ended up turning into about, I think it was in the end, when mom passed, it was, had been 16 years, okay, since, yeah, we've been, like, 16 years at home looking for her or looking after her, and that was just before the pandemic. And then my father, we both got hit with COVID early, before anyone knew what it was. That was, yes, spring or actually probably February 2020, he had been pre diagnosed a few years ago with a lung condition that he hadn't really told us more much about or really looked into. Turns out, what it was was pulmonary fibrosis. The COVID really caused that to flare up and accelerate and yeah, so after about a year of us clear of looking after my mom and going through the whole like my personal therapy process and all that sort of thing, that journey grieving her and also coming to terms with the strange reality of like, the sense of relief after that enormous length of time caring, and the sense of release for her. And then, yeah, then dad needed my care pretty much full time as he degenerated, and we tried experimental drug programs and getting see if we could get him to, if not recovery, at least stability. But he just continued to decline, and he ended up passing in the hospital in fall of 2023

Blake Hunsley 4:55 Okay, so what's the total time period that you would put yourself in a caregiver role? You would say,

Evan Dobbie 4:59 yeah. So that total time, geez, so I guess it would be probably about 23 years,

Blake Hunsley 5:11 okay, and you're 42 today, yeah, talking half, half your lifespan, yeah,

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 5:16 I think that's, I think that is, you know, it's something that we don't talk about a lot, which is this whole elder care piece. It's becoming more more popular, I know, from an alternative dispute resolution, we now actually do dispute resolution in elder care, okay, which was not something that would have happened, you know, 10 years ago even. But from an inclusive point of view. We don't really think about, you know, people being away from what would be the traditional workplace, because they're actually working in a role of caring for an elderly family member, or not even elderly, like an ill family member. And you know, I think about in in your case, 20 some years through that, you were able to get your education, but there was no real your your job was as a care caregiver. So, you know, fast forward to today. You know, you, you know you've had to go through quite a process to get back into the traditional workplace.

Evan Dobbie 6:26 Yes, yeah. That was a big journey and a big source of the sort of mental health struggles involved with the whole situation and overcoming that and dealing with, yeah, the inevitable sort of feelings of lack of value and worth that tend to come from that, and the isolation and I was compounded as well by the the reality of my own family life with my parents, and they were not the most mentally well. People themselves did not have a great relationship, did not engage in the therapy and stuff that they most definitely needed. Also realizing, after my own journeys, seeing that they probably had undiagnosed disorders and neurodivergence and that sort of thing themselves, and as a result, they pushed we were both very reclusive and kind of CO dependent people, and they both pushed their families away, so that, really, by the time mom, like, really started to get sick, that she either pushed everyone away or, like, the few that were, you know, got weirded out by the I guess they have, like, the uncertainty or fear anxiety of that, like seeing someone like that, and not knowing how to deal with it. And, yeah, so people sort of disappeared. So, yeah, it was really like, it was, it was all kind of down to me. So there was no other option. It was either I do this or, like, I walk away and take care of myself and leave them. So it's just kind of like, which is the decision you can actually sleep with at night. And so yeah, that was a major struggle of dealing with what comes after, and, like, trying to push that aside, but also, yeah, eventually, when it became clear that the journey was coming to an end with dad and that he wasn't going to get better, and this was kind of it, And it was sort of this mad scramble of like, okay, what now? What do I do? How am I going to, like, progress with my life? How am I going to take care of myself and support myself and and can I salvage my life and really feeling like I was sort of standing in the center of this smoking crater that I had created of my life, and just trying to figure out, like, how do I sort of climb out of these ruins? Or at least to me, what felt like ruins, and it's hard to see the forest for the trees at that point, like, what opportunities and stuff, and we're so, I suppose I don't want to say brainwashed, but I suppose, to a certain extent, definitely manipulated by stereotypical societal views and media messaging of what a proper life looks like and what success actually is, and how narrowly defined that is and the value of things, and just because our societies don't necessarily value them, that doesn't mean that they're not viable. Just means there's probably something wrong with our society, and that's why we have, yeah, again, quite such an issue with throughtout, like especially the Maritimes, with so many of our aging population now needing that, and then so many people like me being caught up in these positions where you need to be a caregiver, and it's hard to feel like like you have a purpose and a value, or even yet to survive, because we don't appreciate that, and also because it's convenient for governments to be able to take advantage of individuals who can step up in those situations. Because I realized afterwards, like, oh yeah, that's right. If it hadn't been for me, it would have been an enormous bill for the government basically, to take care of my parents. And so there is, yeah, a lack of valuing that contribution, and so eventually finding my way through that was, was the real key to actually getting back into the working world, getting my foot in the door somewhere, and giving myself, I guess, or if not finding the confidence, then at least the opportunity to develop that confidence when you start to see other people's view and appreciation of you reflected back.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 11:16 Yes, exactly. So there's a lot to break down there. No, I but and we will break that down. I did want to say we're not going to talk about Evans life after caregiving, because we've had a great podcast to show Evan's success. So if you haven't watched some of our previous or watched I guess that would be really weird. But if you haven't listened to some of our podcasts, please do listen to the one on Evan to see that his his successes, which are very admirable. But you know, let's come back to the whole to the whole caregiving. And I think that, you know, like, kind of, maybe everything in life, you there's many lessons learned, okay, that we can that we can pass on, and especially now that you're actually working here at reachability Association, you bring a, you know, a very different perspective to a whole different group of individuals that are likely dealing with with things that maybe nobody talks about, right? And that is that caring for an aging or a loved one that's ill. So let's talk about, you know, what are some lessons you know, you learn? What are some things that you wished you had known going through this process supports that you would have liked to have known that were available again, big, broad question,

Evan Dobbie 12:49 yeah, definitely there. I would have, I would have liked to have known about, if anything, maybe a more concentrated source of information, like where to deal or where to find that kind of thing. But also, I guess, that there are resources available just like, like, things like even calling, like, 311 or we're not three one, but 211 for information that they can direct you to a lot of different resources, and then on my own journey, finding out that there are available supports, like, like the Victorian order of nurses, or there are home care providers that which we we used a lot, which were a great help, but I guess also I would have appreciated maybe a little more guidance on available financial supports, accessing caregiver benefits, grants and things of that nature that are available, or even charitable organizations sometimes help that kind of thing. And also even just knowing, yeah, what government supports are actually available in terms of things like the Department of Community Services and the availability of things, not just like income assistance, but also that there are things available for supports, for like recreation and things like that, that can be accessed, but they're just the information isn't very visible, so you have to know to go looking for it. And that, again, with would be a great thing to define would be, I guess, a source or a, maybe a communication platform of some kind for a. The caregivers and their peers and yeah, so that would, which is, I'm sure, much more available now than it was when I was going through my experience.

Blake Hunsley 15:10 It's interesting to say that you sure that it's available, because I'm just thinking, you know, we work in an agency where we see a lot of provincial government communications. You hear about a lot of programs and a lot of resources that are available, which is great. So contact us if you're curious, for you, but that's not something I see really publicized out there,

Evan Dobbie 15:28 sort of, it's like peer created. It's the actual something Reddit or, yeah, like, which is surprising,

Blake Hunsley 15:35 because Nova Scotia in particular has such an aging population. And this is exactly this is not a topic that's unusual to any of us, all of us. I mean, Shelly, you and I stood around the office talking about our own personal experiences before this episode. All of us have been through this or are going through it currently, but you really don't. I wonder, is there still some sort of societal taboo for talking about this sort of thing, or what? Well, I

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 15:57 don't know if there. I feel like there's less societal taboo, okay? It's likely more about like, the ignorance of you know where to go to find support. Like, and it's interesting that you said that about because there's so many different organizations and let's face it, in Nova Scotia, we do have a lot of organizations, okay, you know that do provide support, but we've talked to a few people, either during when we were doing the videos or our previous podcasts, and information is not only readily available, like there's organizations we don't know anything about. And interestingly enough, we were talking, I was sitting at a meeting of other, some other not for profits, a couple years ago, and there was talk of actually putting together, okay, a listing of all the charitable organizations and in Nova Scotia and what they offer right as well as all the links to the various mental health supports, provincial supports, municipal supports. But I've not, I've not seen, I've not seen that. And so what it takes I think, you know, like from, you know, when I think, when I think about it, is that when you're in the situation, okay, that you were in, for instance, you're already juggling 15 balls, right? And to have to sit in front of a computer or get on a phone or whatever, and, you know, get that bandwidth, that mental bandwidth, okay to call somebody, even if it's to call reachability, as Blake said, call us and we'll help you. You got to get to that point to be able to pick up the phone to call and say, Can you help me find x

Blake Hunsley 17:56 when your so called spare time is probably not unless your

Evan Dobbie 17:59 mental health is in a bad state? Yes, that is one thing I very much ran into, was the information and the resources was all very decentralized, and it was very hard to track that down. And like you said, when you're already very occupied in birthday, the last thing you want to do is then take on some homework, right, to try and sort through this sort of stuff, and that a centralized location would have been really great.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 18:28 So that's that, so that, I think, for our our listeners today, you know, number one lesson learned is, if you're going through this caregiving then reach out, reach out to any organization or or call Nova Scotia Health, and you take that 10 minutes to call, because you will likely get somebody on the phone. Okay? Most people who work in those organizations are compassionate individuals, and they'll start guiding you in the right, it'll be the best 10 minutes that you've spent right to try to help, because there are a lot of supports out there. So that's number one, right? The other thing that I wanted to unpack, that I think is is important, and you touched on it a bit, is what you know, what supports for you as the caregiver like you know what? What, when you think, when you think about, about that you need, your journey, yes, right,

Evan Dobbie 19:37 supports, especially the normal things that you would consider for, just like the maintenance of your life, but also the huge thing is the isolation that comes with it due to the time constraints the location demands were for me, it was my mother, and she was located. You know, confined to her bedroom, largely, so that's where she was, and that's where I needed to be around, and a lot of the time. So yeah, there just wasn't a lot of free time or energy or resources to do things like socialize or really have a life of my own. And that's largely what happened was my own life just disappeared, and it like my life just became looking after them, and there, there was no room, really, or ability for anything else. Social supports, peer groups would be phenomenal, just you know, even if it's like like minded peers who are also caregivers, or just yeah, having like a like a pub trivia group or something that you can go hang out with is huge. It's definitely massive, because the social isolation really compounds all the mental health issues and can, yeah, that tends to lead to the darkest places.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 21:07 Absolutely, absolutely. So I think you know that it's important that, if you know, in that first in that first step, when we're reaching out to what are those supports that we can have for caregiving, because some of it is financial support, such as, you know, there are supports out there for home care, assistance in the home, which allows, okay, the primary caregiver. In this case, you okay to get out of the house, even if it's to go to, as you said, of journey at night, it's, you know, being able to set those boundaries and and and take the time to to look, to look after, after yourself. So that's, you know, that's that I think is really important. And I know from my experience in in in dealing, you know, with with my, one of my parents who, you know, was starting to need care. And luckily, you know, like my parent was still somewhat good cognition in the beginning stages, and made it very clear that, you know, she didn't like the fact that, you know, one of us was going to have to, you know, give up our our life. And while she didn't think that she was ready to go to any type of care facility, but also, she was setting boundaries for us, because she came from the healthcare field. That was actually very helpful. So I was, I was fortunate in that now we, we did, you know, it progressed, you know, relatively quickly from a safety perspective of her living alone. So, you know, we did have to kind of bring her kicking and screaming, to, figuratively, or maybe almost literally, you know, to, you know, to, you know, a semi assisted living place. But that actually did put some boundaries in place. So, you know, but not everybody's that, not everybody's that fortunate, right? But you do have to look at you do have to take care of, of your, of yourself, right? So I think that that's, that's, that's important,

Evan Dobbie 23:32 yeah, that that's is huge for me, especially with my mother, just was not an option. She Yeah, would have you would have that was a no go for her. But yeah, and I would say also the third major thing would be the availability and ease of access to quality mental health care, yes, especially, I would say in like during the process, not just afterwards, as you know, post trauma care, but like current, like as a, simply, as a as a way to vent and process what you're going through at the moment, not only for you, but so that you can also actually provide that care that they need without, you Know, while giving them the quality of care and not, you know, taking out anger or resentments and things like that. That was very important for me. But also one of, like, the hardest struggles I had was especially here in Nova Scotia, especially during the pandemic too, with my father, was just getting access, not just to medical or mental health care, but reliably and quality, that was a struggle, but once I did, that was also huge, and was a big component in me being able to process the whole situation. And to a point where I was okay with it, but also, yeah, being able to give them the sort of grace that they needed and that I needed to give them, to be able to see them as fallible humans, rather than trying to hold them to some impossible standard is as parents, who I have, you know, grievances with which really was just going to get in the way. And I knew that I didn't want to reflect back on that afterwards and regret that. So it was very important to me to be able, yeah, to to care for them, free of Yeah, like, sort of that feeling of resentment, and I didn't want to make them feel guilty during that process. Like that was what I wanted to be able to give to them, was, I guess, a gentle transition where they can feel at peace,

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 26:02 right? Exactly, all while taking care of yourself, yes. So I think that that that's a really great example that you once you finally accessed mental health for yourself. You said, like that was a huge, you know, benefit to you, like you saw, which I think we all know, right, but you're right, the access to mental health supports, right, is still not good. And once you do it, once you are able to access it, I think people are saying, great, great success. So, you know, so that's, that's a real Yeah, that's

Evan Dobbie 26:41 a real concern, yeah, and finding the type that works for you too, because I spent the first few years struggling with the government system here just kind of being put on waiting lists and pushed to cognitive behavioral Therapy repeatedly, even though I did not find success with them when I finally was put in contact with a DBT dialectical behavior therapy practitioner, that was like a huge thing for me. It's like finding a form of therapy that worked for me, rather than trying to push everyone through that sort of bureaucratic square peg.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 27:22 Yeah, so, well, we certainly don't want to get Blake on the bureaucratic processes. We, as soon as you started to talk about, you know, the political processes, I was like, oh, Lord, oh Lord,

Blake Hunsley 27:39 I'm gonna stay off my soapbox today, but I do have one suggestion. I would love to see someone in a position of authority take on someone who can affect this sort of changes. We have such an aging population in Nova Scotia. We have the highest rate of disabilities out of the whole country in Nova Scotia. This is not an issue that is unknown to us, that we have to be ready, be prepared, to cope when our relatives or people in our care need this intense level of care. I would love to see it be brought into the healthcare system where, let's say, my parent gets a diagnosis that is going to be headed towards palliative care, right? Where is my little care book of all the resources that are out there for me? Why is that not just something pre packaged, handed to me so that I'm getting devastating news and at the same moment I'm getting just an absolute wealth of resources that already exist. We're not reinventing the wheel. So

Evan Dobbie 28:28 actually, the best sort of death and grieving resources, and yeah, sort of preparedness I got was actually for my mother, when she was in Halifax hospice, which I cannot sing their praises enough, phenomenal organization. She was one of their first guests. I think she was the very first guest in the willow room, which was interesting for us, because, yeah, she was. She grew up on Willow Street here in Halifax, and so it was kind of an interesting, yeah, sort of a circle for her and the other people there were phenomenal. And they had amazing reason. They had exactly what you described, and had, yeah, you know, grievance counseling and, you know, just an amazing organization that was, I guess, yeah, compounded the disappointment in our own health system all the more. Yeah,

Blake Hunsley 29:28 exactly. You can see it can be done. Yes, exactly. Whereas

Evan Dobbie 29:31 that from, say, like my father's lung specialist, like pulmonary specialist, I get, like, a package of information, all about the experimental drug that he's on, and everything I need to know about that, but nothing about how to prepare for his inevitable death. You know, that's like, obviously on the wall, yeah, so, or, you know, or putting me in contact with it. The only thing really, was just a social worker that they had on. When the recovery floor he was on you, they would come around and basically ask if you wanted to talk or but that was pretty much it, and was pretty limited, as well as, like, what they could do and their resources, or just the availability of that too. This one person that I think maybe like one or two day a week for an entire floor and so yeah, it's that, and a greater breadth and more substantive supports from the Yeah, from the healthcare system, in regards to preparing for death and what to do afterwards.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 30:46 So I wanted to actually follow up. Normally, I don't jump on the box with you, but I do you know based on what you said and why? Why can't we have all this information in one place? And you know, and I do want to give a shout out to Halifax hospice, because they are exceptional at what they do. So it shows that that can happen, right? This is such a great job, okay? For some summer interns, you know, we have all these. The government puts a lot of money into, you know, summer, the summer job fund, both from the federal and provincial level. This would be a great project, okay, to compile all of this information, okay, into the same space, and then it's, you know, it's readily available. So, you know, you think about when the social workers coming to your room if you want to talk, but here's a package, right? You know, all the oncology offices, okay, go in there. Here's your package, right? Family doctors, right? Like it's readily available on websites. So, I mean, I think there's we just we need to put it together to get it done. Is

Evan Dobbie 32:08 like a legal checklist of what you need to do for someone when they die. Right? For me, yeah, especially with my father, it was just me, and I had no experience with any of that stuff. Was figuring out, like, Who do I need to notify? What do I need to do? What

Blake Hunsley 32:26 paperwork? While you're at your most emotional. exactly.

Evan Dobbie 32:28 How do I get someone cremated? Like, what's that process?

Blake Hunsley 32:32 We don't think about the practical concerns when we talk about death. We just talk about all the emotionality. You're right. There's so much bureau. What

Evan Dobbie 32:39 goals do I need to make doing bank accounts, safe deposit boxes, insurance policies, car ownership, like deeds, all this stuff, like, do they did they own, like firearms or something that you need to dispose of, or whatever, or Yeah, like, it could be Like anything, or even like, it would be great for parents to maybe prepare a little bit better, even if it's just, what do we have and what's it worth, and like, what like, what do we want you to do with this stuff? And, yeah, rather than just like, All right, now I've suddenly got a house full of, like, people's stuff to go through and figure out.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 33:24 Well, that's the that's actually probably a whole topic. But, you know, parents from, you know, my parents, like from their generation, that was not something they talked about. They don't talk about they don't talk about finances, they don't talk about those kind of things, and they don't talk about death. So you know, maybe they had this stuff prepared, but you don't get to look through their stuff and find out, because heaven forbid, should you try to have a conversation with them while they're alive and kicking? And you know, it will not go very well, because it's none of you know. As I was told quite clearly, it's none of your business. This is a very nervous system, right? So, so that you know that, whereas in today's society, we overshare, yes, okay, so like, there's got to be, like, I always say the pendulum

Evan Dobbie 34:19 needs to kind of come in my case, it was particularly difficult with my mother because of her degrading mental health at the end and her own mental health disorder, she became very she sort of antagonistic to most people by the end, even towards my father and I by the end, to the point where she we found that afterwards that she seemed to have done something with her will and like, like, destroyed it or something, and it seemed to have already gone through and given away most of like, her valuable jewelry to like, I think it was like home care workers, basically, that she developed strange parasocial relationships with because she had no one else, and she grew, like, resentful of us, and then, yeah, so she, like, was like, figure how do you do? What do you do if your parent is actively working against you? And it's like, Whatever, I'll do whatever you want with your stuff. But I'm just trying to, like, figure this out so I can put this behind me. This is why

Blake Hunsley 35:19 I'm going to stay off by my politics yelling soapbox today, because I think when on this topic, it's more of a social change sort of issue it is to take on the hard work I've been very fortunate. And Shelley, you and I were joking earlier that we both have parents that like to tell us they're spending our inheritance, which I find very funny. Like, yeah, don't leave me with debt, but don't, don't leave a penny. Spend it on yourself. It's yours sort of thing. But I've always had parents that, for better or for worse, are, I don't want to say morbid, but like we used to go play in cemeteries all the time as children, like death was a very common topic to talk about, and I think it's because they had each experienced, Evan, exactly what you're talking about, where either they lost a parent or lost a grandparent or someone in their family, and nothing was prepared and everything fell on the people who were left behind, and that's not what they wanted for us. So the arrangements when something happens, everything has been taken care of already. I've been told for many, many years this, right? That's something that I'm going to endeavor to do for my loved ones in my time comes.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 36:16 So learned, learned, learned experiences, right? I think there's

Blake Hunsley 36:20 a lot of responsibility on on people, especially parents, especially parents, if and especially if it's an unfortunate situation where they're getting sick when their child is still quite young, like case was Evan. The other thing I think, social change wise, I'd love to see, and I wrote down palliative confidence is the only way I can really phrase it, is, you were talking about the isolation and of being at home because your mom was really in her bedroom at that point, and that's where you had to be. The amount of times I've seen friends dwindle away when there's a sick person or a dying person in the midst because they don't have that palliative confidence. They're afraid they're going to say the wrong thing or uncomfortable around someone who's at that stage of life. It's so natural, if we could all just get a little more comfortable, even though it is a devastating experience. How much easier would it have been on you? I mean, if you had friends that were completely comfortable coming by, at the at the

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 37:09 deepest and coming by, y'all take that one step further. You know. You know somebody who that, instead of moving away right, stop respecting their wishes that you think they need to be with their parent. What about offering? Hey, Evan, I'm going to pop over tomorrow, right? I'll spend some time with your mom. You go, do you for a couple of hours, right? Or I'm going to come and I'm just going to sit beside you, whether you whether you like it or not, you know, like, that's a true, you know, a true situation that needs to happen. So I think that you know, there's, you're right, like, there's, it's social. There's a lot of social change that needs to happen. And while this was a very weighty topic today, I think you know, there's some really good takeaways. Is that, you know, we talked about the fact that, sure, there's not this compiled all in one place information, but there are resources out there. So step one is, you know, reach out to somebody, right? You know, even if it's even just a friend that you have that's a good friend, that's, you know, you know wants to help get them on the they're going to be looking up and researching all the information for you. But reach out to somebody. You can't do it alone. Number two, you need to put some supports in place for yourself. Okay, very early on, okay. Again, reach out. And while, again, mental health supports may take a while to get the right fit for you, you need to keep at it, because that's so important, right? And And third, we need to try to erase some of the social either the social stigma, social awareness, and that is, you know, really trying to come at the conversation about, you know, preparing, like learning from other people's, other people's lived experience. What can we do better? What information do we need to have? I know my parent is, you know, having some complications. So what do I need to have a conversation with them about, or, heaven forbid, you have, you know, somebody in your family who passes away quite quickly and you don't know what to do, right? You know, providing that support to those individuals, like, what did you What was the, what was the checklist you used, right? Like, you know, like, here's what I, you know, sharing some of those experiences to help fill the gap until we can get to a place where there is that lovely package, okay, that somebody is able to hand you that has all of that information,

Blake Hunsley 39:59 and until. Are there? I'd like to suggest to anyone listening to if you're sitting there thinking they're not mentioning this great resource that helped me so much when I was going through this for heaven's sakes, please call or email. We will put it in future show notes. We will have it up on the website. We're more than happy to share resources. That's that's resource collection and dissemination is a big part of this

Evan Dobbie 40:18 podcast. One last thing I would like to add, the thing that really enabled me to reach out and look for that help was confronting the shame of or of not letting myself feel shame about struggling with these things, because that was also a big thing that compounded my isolation and stopped me from reaching out, especially with me and my own circumstances and neurodivergency, of developing a very hyper independent personality from a young age, like looking after her parents and having, like undiagnosed ADHD and all this stuff that I was so used to just taking care of everything myself, and also because the way my parents were very prideful about, like, yes, not admitting needing help, and like, keeping everything private. And basically that just ends up with, like, okay, everything is on me alone, and I can't tell anyone about it. And, yeah, getting over that and accepting that like that was okay, it's normal, it's human. And it would be insane if you could somehow handle all this on your own, that, yeah, to not be ashamed of that, to be willing to reach out and actually take that first step for him, nice,

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 41:38 exactly, and and you know that that is a great, a great, a great way to end this session, because Evan is truly a success story, because he did reach out. And reached out. One of the organizations was reachability Association. And again, you can listen to the podcast where Evan talks about his meeting with reachability Association and his success, and we're so happy to have him as a full time employee

Blake Hunsley 42:10 here episode seven, which aired on May 7. I believe exactly, in case you haven't listened to that one yet, that's right, Evan, I think part of the reason we felt comfortable taking on such a weighty topic, even on your birthday. So thank you again for that was that you really do speak quite openly and eloquently about your experience, and you convey that you're in a good place without diminishing how difficult it was to get where you're at. So credit where it's due. And thank you very much for coming on and talking about especially today, and I hope that you have a more lighthearted birthday. Yeah,

Evan Dobbie 42:46 it's, it's important to me to be able to, I guess, yeah, find value in it that helps me process it. If I can help other people simply by, like, sharing this with them, and I know from my own personal experience that that would have helped me. So yeah, I'm very happy to share any of this with anyone because, yeah, it's not it's not who I am. It's just something that happened to me

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 43:12 exactly well. Thank you very much, Evan, and for those of you that are listening, you heard it here. If you feel you don't have any resources, you actually have a resource, because Evan, you know, just offered to have a conversation with you. So thanks so much, Evan, and thanks for listening to within our reach. We'll be back in two weeks with our next episode. If you have an idea for an episode, a topic you'd like us to cover, or if you'd like to join us as a guest on the podcast. Please reach out to us at within our reach@reachability.org,

Transcribed by https://otter.ai