INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where

INTRO: we share learning and expertise in child protection

INTRO: from inside and outside of the organisation.

INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and

INTRO: share good practice on how we can all work together

INTRO: to keep babies, children and young people safe.

PRODUCER: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast.

PRODUCER: In this episode recorded in January 2025,

PRODUCER: we're going to be looking at the issue of child

PRODUCER: criminal exploitation.

PRODUCER: Child criminal exploitation is a form of child

PRODUCER: abuse where a child or young person is forced or

PRODUCER: coerced to engage in criminal activity or commit

PRODUCER: any type of crime.

PRODUCER: Since this podcast was recorded, the Crime and

PRODUCER: Policing Bill has been introduced into

PRODUCER: Parliament. which would introduce a new specific

PRODUCER: criminal offence of child criminal exploitation.

PRODUCER: This would target the adult as the primary

PRODUCER: offender in causing harm to the child by

PRODUCER: exploiting them to commit criminal activity.

PRODUCER: I'm joined by two guests with a wealth of

PRODUCER: knowledge and experience on the topic to discuss

PRODUCER: what professionals working with children need to

PRODUCER: know about criminal exploitation and what can be

PRODUCER: done to prevent children from being criminally

PRODUCER: exploited.

PRODUCER: Denise and Tara, please could you introduce

PRODUCER: yourselves?

DENISE ELLIS: Hi my name is Denise Ellis and I'm

DENISE ELLIS: the service head for the NSPCC Helpline.

DENISE ELLIS: I have the lead role for child

DENISE ELLIS: criminal exploitation as part of my

DENISE ELLIS: safeguarding role at the Helpline

DENISE ELLIS: and I have

DENISE ELLIS: nearly 43 years experience of

DENISE ELLIS: working with children and families from

DENISE ELLIS: nought right up to 18 years of age.

DENISE ELLIS: I previously worked for Manchester

DENISE ELLIS: Safeguarding Unit, and I currently

DENISE ELLIS: deliver training to professionals

DENISE ELLIS: in regards to identifying the signs

DENISE ELLIS: of child criminal exploitation.

TARA MELLOWES: My name is Tara Mellowes and I am a

TARA MELLOWES: Detective Constable based with

TARA MELLOWES: Leicestershire Police and I work within

TARA MELLOWES: their exploitation team.

TARA MELLOWES: So my kind of specialism is child criminal

TARA MELLOWES: exploitation but we're a team that cross

TARA MELLOWES: over, so I work alongside officers that

TARA MELLOWES: specialise in child sexual exploitation and

TARA MELLOWES: we work together within the exploitation

TARA MELLOWES: team.

PRODUCER: Thank you both for joining us on the podcast.

PRODUCER: Tara, please could you kick things off by giving

PRODUCER: us a brief overview of what child criminal

PRODUCER: exploitation is?

TARA MELLOWES: Annoyingly, we don't really have a

TARA MELLOWES: statutory definition for child criminal

TARA MELLOWES: exploitation. A lot of work is being done

TARA MELLOWES: by some agencies to try and rectify that.

TARA MELLOWES: However, we use a broader home office

TARA MELLOWES: definition which is, effectively, it's

TARA MELLOWES: a form of child abuse where the child is

TARA MELLOWES: being exploited to take part in

TARA MELLOWES: criminal activity, mainly on the behalf of

TARA MELLOWES: somebody else.

TARA MELLOWES: It's essentially an individual or groups of

TARA MELLOWES: people that would take advantage of the

TARA MELLOWES: imbalance of power that would be between

TARA MELLOWES: them and a child.

TARA MELLOWES: That can include coercion,

TARA MELLOWES: control, manipulation; it's just

TARA MELLOWES: essentially using all of that to get that

TARA MELLOWES: child to engage in criminal activity

TARA MELLOWES: but on behalf of somebody else,

TARA MELLOWES: for their own gain.

PRODUCER: Thanks Tara.

PRODUCER: And Denise, please can you tell us a bit more

PRODUCER: about the different forms that child criminal

PRODUCER: exploitation can take?

DENISE ELLIS: Yeah, so there are many forms of child

DENISE ELLIS: criminal exploitation.

DENISE ELLIS: It can be the dealing and transporting of

DENISE ELLIS: drugs or weapons.

DENISE ELLIS: It could be growing cannabis.

DENISE ELLIS: It can be encouraged to get involved

DENISE ELLIS: in theft and burglary.

DENISE ELLIS: Street crime, such as begging and

DENISE ELLIS: pickpocketing.

DENISE ELLIS: Compulsory labour, forced labour.

DENISE ELLIS: Sexual exploitation.

DENISE ELLIS: Drug trafficking.

DENISE ELLIS: Involvement in criminal gangs and violence,

DENISE ELLIS: modern slavery and stealing or shoplifting.

DENISE ELLIS: So there are a number of different ways

DENISE ELLIS: in which children can be criminally

DENISE ELLIS: exploited.

PRODUCER: Thanks, Denise.

PRODUCER: Another type of criminal exploitation that

PRODUCER: listeners may be familiar with is county lines.

PRODUCER: Tara, I know this is an area your work covers.

PRODUCER: Please, can you tell us a bit more about that

PRODUCER: form of exploitation?

TARA MELLOWES: That's where the bulk of my work is.

TARA MELLOWES: We see children being used as drug runners

TARA MELLOWES: that are trafficked, mainly out of big

TARA MELLOWES: cities into smaller cities in towns,

TARA MELLOWES: essentially for the purposes of working on

TARA MELLOWES: a county line.

TARA MELLOWES: For those that probably don't know what a

TARA MELLOWES: county line is, it's effectively a drug

TARA MELLOWES: dealing line that operates within a town or

TARA MELLOWES: a city, but may be orchestrated from

TARA MELLOWES: another larger city outside that force

TARA MELLOWES: area. And that tends to be mainly crack and

TARA MELLOWES: heroin drug dealing.

TARA MELLOWES: And so that's what I see the majority of

TARA MELLOWES: and a lot of the children that come under

TARA MELLOWES: my radar have been involved in that.

PRODUCER: And why are children targets for criminal

PRODUCER: exploitation?

PRODUCER: You mentioned earlier the imbalance of power

PRODUCER: between children and perpetrators, for example.

PRODUCER: Please can you perhaps expand on this and how

PRODUCER: children come to be targeted?

TARA MELLOWES: I think vulnerability plays

TARA MELLOWES: a huge part in that imbalance of

TARA MELLOWES: power, which naturally exists between an

TARA MELLOWES: adult and a child.

TARA MELLOWES: And also I think it's really important to

TARA MELLOWES: note that whilst there are some groups of

TARA MELLOWES: children that I would say are more

TARA MELLOWES: vulnerable to this kind of exploitation, I

TARA MELLOWES: have seen children from all walks of life

TARA MELLOWES: become involved.

TARA MELLOWES: I think we're naturally inclined to see,

TARA MELLOWES: from a stereotypical perspective, mainly

TARA MELLOWES: children from deprived areas of larger

TARA MELLOWES: cities, areas where gang culture is more

TARA MELLOWES: prominent, children with adverse childhood

TARA MELLOWES: experiences, children that have gone

TARA MELLOWES: through the social care system.

TARA MELLOWES: Yes, they're the ones that come under my

TARA MELLOWES: radar. But I've also worked with children

TARA MELLOWES: from the complete opposite end of the

TARA MELLOWES: spectrum, and I think the consistent factor

TARA MELLOWES: that I see all through the children that I

TARA MELLOWES: see is that area of vulnerability.

TARA MELLOWES: It's that targeting of that vulnerability.

TARA MELLOWES: Whether that vulnerability within that

TARA MELLOWES: child is that need for connection, and

TARA MELLOWES: that's how those children get involved in

TARA MELLOWES: gang culture. Whether that child's

TARA MELLOWES: need and the target of the vulnerability is

TARA MELLOWES: money. We talk about children that come

TARA MELLOWES: from very deprived areas of the country.

TARA MELLOWES: I've seen boys in particular who see it as

TARA MELLOWES: their role within that family to make

TARA MELLOWES: money for the family.

TARA MELLOWES: That's how they can get involved.

TARA MELLOWES: They're enticed by the ability to make a

TARA MELLOWES: lot of money very quickly, as so they

TARA MELLOWES: perceive it to be.

TARA MELLOWES: What normally happens then unfortunately is

TARA MELLOWES: that the perpetrators will target that

TARA MELLOWES: vulnerability and create a kind of 'hook',

TARA MELLOWES: if you like, whatever that 'hook' is to

TARA MELLOWES: hook that child in.

TARA MELLOWES: If I took money, for example.

TARA MELLOWES: The hook for that child is to have that

TARA MELLOWES: money come in. Someone might say to the

TARA MELLOWES: child, "right you go and go and sit in that

TARA MELLOWES: trap house for me for five days in this

TARA MELLOWES: area and I will pay you £500

TARA MELLOWES: for doing that for me." That child might go

TARA MELLOWES: and do that, and they'll do it three or

TARA MELLOWES: four times and not have any problem.

TARA MELLOWES: It will feel maybe quite easy to them.

TARA MELLOWES: They probably don't come under police

TARA MELLOWES: radar. They're probably not getting

TARA MELLOWES: arrested. So those three or four times that

TARA MELLOWES: they've done it, it feels quite easy to

TARA MELLOWES: make quite a large amount of money; but

TARA MELLOWES: that's where the hook is.

TARA MELLOWES: And then that's when things do start to

TARA MELLOWES: spiral.

TARA MELLOWES: It might be that on the third or fourth

TARA MELLOWES: time they've gone and done it, they're

TARA MELLOWES: arrested by police. All of a sudden, they

TARA MELLOWES: find themselves in a custody suite.

TARA MELLOWES: It may be that something's happened and

TARA MELLOWES: that child has either lost money or lost

TARA MELLOWES: drugs, and that's how that spirals very,

TARA MELLOWES: very quickly.

TARA MELLOWES: I think that's where the children don't see

TARA MELLOWES: the danger. Something that can feel quite

TARA MELLOWES: easy or okay at first, they don't

TARA MELLOWES: see the spiral that it can take very

TARA MELLOWES: quickly.

PRODUCER: Listening to you there Tara, I think one of the

PRODUCER: key points for listeners to remember is that

PRODUCER: whilst some children are at increased risk,

PRODUCER: criminal exploitation can happen to any child.

PRODUCER: So everyone needs to be vigilant.

PRODUCER: Denise, with this in mind, what are the signs of

PRODUCER: child criminal exploitation that professionals

PRODUCER: working with children need to look out for?

DENISE ELLIS: Yeah, so with this, you need to be very

DENISE ELLIS: careful. We refer to it as 'pennies in the

DENISE ELLIS: bank'. So what we wouldn't want to do is

DENISE ELLIS: for somebody just to think, oh,

DENISE ELLIS: somebody I know has been seen away from

DENISE ELLIS: home, missing from home or there's been a

DENISE ELLIS: change in their appearance or they've

DENISE ELLIS: been missing from school or their behaviours

DENISE ELLIS: have changed.

DENISE ELLIS: So, you know, it can be signs to look out

DENISE ELLIS: for.

DENISE ELLIS: Use of new slang words.

DENISE ELLIS: Carrying weapons. Having two mobile phones,

DENISE ELLIS: that's a common one.

DENISE ELLIS: It could be graffiti-style tags.

DENISE ELLIS: It can be a change in routine or

DENISE ELLIS: places seen that they wouldn't normally have

DENISE ELLIS: been seen.

DENISE ELLIS: Increased social media usage; we

DENISE ELLIS: know that young people do tend to

DENISE ELLIS: be on social media a lot, but it's just

DENISE ELLIS: looking out and being aware of some of those

DENISE ELLIS: signs.

DENISE ELLIS: Again, committing petty crimes and

DENISE ELLIS: being stopped and

DENISE ELLIS: seen in places they wouldn't normally be.

DENISE ELLIS: Wearing expensive clothing that can

DENISE ELLIS: be a sign — if they've not got the receipt

DENISE ELLIS: to show that it's been paid for.

DENISE ELLIS: Where have those extra mobile phones

DENISE ELLIS: come from? Where have those £200

DENISE ELLIS: trainers come from?

DENISE ELLIS: Abusing drugs and alcohol.

DENISE ELLIS: Refusing to seek medical help.

DENISE ELLIS: Repeated sexual health conditions,

DENISE ELLIS: unwanted pregnancies, getting involved in

DENISE ELLIS: fights, more physical violence.

DENISE ELLIS: So yeah, there are so many different things.

DENISE ELLIS: But in regards to county lines,

DENISE ELLIS: one of the things that— there was one young

DENISE ELLIS: person who'd said that they were travelling

DENISE ELLIS: on a train at 12 years of age,

DENISE ELLIS: going outside of the

DENISE ELLIS: place, the geographical area where they

DENISE ELLIS: normally lived.

DENISE ELLIS: They said that they were invisible.

DENISE ELLIS: No one stopped them.

DENISE ELLIS: No one said hello or, you know, where are

DENISE ELLIS: you going? Why are you on your own?

DENISE ELLIS: This was a 12-year-old person who's being

DENISE ELLIS: asked to travel solo to London

DENISE ELLIS: and was having to go into an area they

DENISE ELLIS: didn't know before. So if you see somebody

DENISE ELLIS: and they seem lost or they might have a

DENISE ELLIS: school uniform that just doesn't fit in with

DENISE ELLIS: that geographical area.

DENISE ELLIS: These are signs to look out for.

PRODUCER: Thanks Denise.

PRODUCER: And Tara, can you give us an overview of the

PRODUCER: risks associated with child criminal

PRODUCER: exploitation?

TARA MELLOWES: I think the risks are absolutely huge and

TARA MELLOWES: are so multifaceted, it's really hard to

TARA MELLOWES: contain them into a very small, brief

TARA MELLOWES: overview.

TARA MELLOWES: But I think for me [the one] that jumps out

TARA MELLOWES: the most obvious is the criminality element

TARA MELLOWES: of it. Speaking from a police perspective,

TARA MELLOWES: our standpoint when we come across children

TARA MELLOWES: is we don't want to criminalise children.

TARA MELLOWES: It's not something that we feel comfortable

TARA MELLOWES: doing. Our first standpoint will always be

TARA MELLOWES: to look at the broader picture of what's

TARA MELLOWES: going on for that child but criminalisation

TARA MELLOWES: in itself, whether that's through

TARA MELLOWES: being arrested for drug dealing, if they're

TARA MELLOWES: getting involved in county line drug

TARA MELLOWES: dealing, it's the criminalisation. If they

TARA MELLOWES: are getting involved in other types of

TARA MELLOWES: offending, whether those children are

TARA MELLOWES: involved in a gang culture and a lifestyle,

TARA MELLOWES: we get violent offending that crops up with

TARA MELLOWES: it as well.

TARA MELLOWES: So that's the biggest kind of thing that I

TARA MELLOWES: see is the risks that child is going to

TARA MELLOWES: find themselves in a custody cell, or

TARA MELLOWES: getting themselves involved in serious

TARA MELLOWES: harm and violence against other people,

TARA MELLOWES: against each other.

TARA MELLOWES: That's the bit that I see the most of.

TARA MELLOWES: But then the tail end of that as well is

TARA MELLOWES: the knock-on effect that that has on that

TARA MELLOWES: child, whether that is the physical harm

TARA MELLOWES: to themselves. Getting involved in county

TARA MELLOWES: line drug dealing normally has an element

TARA MELLOWES: of violence associated with it as well,

TARA MELLOWES: particularly in areas where there's

TARA MELLOWES: numerous county lines running; there can be

TARA MELLOWES: animosity and violence between different

TARA MELLOWES: entities that are operating in certain

TARA MELLOWES: areas. Those that are getting involved, or

TARA MELLOWES: starting to get involved, in gang culture

TARA MELLOWES: and lifestyle, violence can be used

TARA MELLOWES: as a bit of a test or a bit of an

TARA MELLOWES: initiation to be able to become part of

TARA MELLOWES: that element.

TARA MELLOWES: That kind of leads on to the physical and

TARA MELLOWES: the psychological harm of what happens with

TARA MELLOWES: those children.

TARA MELLOWES: It's something, particularly the

TARA MELLOWES: psychological element of it, isn't

TARA MELLOWES: something that's probably the most

TARA MELLOWES: immediate to them.

TARA MELLOWES: They can go years before

TARA MELLOWES: those psychological elements become

TARA MELLOWES: apparent and they all form part of, you

TARA MELLOWES: know, quite adverse childhood experiences

TARA MELLOWES: that we talk about when we talk about

TARA MELLOWES: adults and how they behave and how

TARA MELLOWES: their formed later on in life and the

TARA MELLOWES: impact of that is massive.

TARA MELLOWES: And I think that's where the concerns are

TARA MELLOWES: for me. Even those children that have come

TARA MELLOWES: through and been involved in CCE (child

TARA MELLOWES: criminal exploitation), that maybe feel

TARA MELLOWES: like they've come out of it unscathed, it's

TARA MELLOWES: the impact that that has on later down the

TARA MELLOWES: line.

PRODUCER: So there's both the short-term risks, such as

PRODUCER: criminalisation and physical abuse, but also

PRODUCER: those long-term impacts of adverse childhood

PRODUCER: experiences and trauma associated with the

PRODUCER: exploitation. So the risks are really clear.

PRODUCER: We also know that it can be really difficult to

PRODUCER: extricate children from criminal exploitation

PRODUCER: once they've become caught up in it.

PRODUCER: So prevention and early intervention takes on an

PRODUCER: increased importance.

PRODUCER: Denise, please can you tell us a bit more about

PRODUCER: this?

DENISE ELLIS: Early intervention is incredibly important.

DENISE ELLIS: It can provide targeted expert

DENISE ELLIS: support to help children at risk

DENISE ELLIS: to find a positive path forward away

DENISE ELLIS: from criminality.

DENISE ELLIS: So things to consider: early recognition

DENISE ELLIS: nips things in the bud.

DENISE ELLIS: That's one of the key things.

DENISE ELLIS: It prevents normalisation.

DENISE ELLIS: And one of the things that we hear from

DENISE ELLIS: young people who are being criminally

DENISE ELLIS: exploited is that they think that it's

DENISE ELLIS: normal. That it's normal to carry weapons.

DENISE ELLIS: It's normal to carry drugs.

DENISE ELLIS: It's not normal to be raped.

DENISE ELLIS: It is never normal to raped or

DENISE ELLIS: abused in any way.

DENISE ELLIS: It prevents escalation of more serious

DENISE ELLIS: crime. Obviously the grooming and

DENISE ELLIS: the drawing young people into this,

DENISE ELLIS: what they portray as a fantastic

DENISE ELLIS: world of, you know, do you want to have

DENISE ELLIS: a £200 pair of trainers or do you wanna earn

DENISE ELLIS: £500 pound.

DENISE ELLIS: For some young people that's a lure.

DENISE ELLIS: That's kind of... this sounds fabulous.

DENISE ELLIS: They don't have to do anything at first.

DENISE ELLIS: But nipping things in the bud and

DENISE ELLIS: early interventions prevents that escalation

DENISE ELLIS: of more serious crime because nothing

DENISE ELLIS: is free in this world.

DENISE ELLIS: So if you've got a brand new

DENISE ELLIS: £200 pair of trainers or mobile phone,

DENISE ELLIS: there is some kind of payback for that.

DENISE ELLIS: So it might start off with, "oh, can

DENISE ELLIS: you just transport some cannabis for

DENISE ELLIS: us?" But that cannabis then turns into

DENISE ELLIS: Class A drugs such as cocaine, heroin,

DENISE ELLIS: crack cocaine and the increase in

DENISE ELLIS: criminalisation goes up and up.

DENISE ELLIS: So early intervention

DENISE ELLIS: breaks that kind of cycle.

DENISE ELLIS: It prevents criminalising children.

DENISE ELLIS: We often hear professionals use

DENISE ELLIS: criminalising language.

DENISE ELLIS: You know, "oh the young person was

DENISE ELLIS: promiscuous" — you're using blaming language

DENISE ELLIS: for somebody who's a potential victim.

DENISE ELLIS: So there should be no blaming.

DENISE ELLIS: Young people who have been exploited

DENISE ELLIS: are victims.

DENISE ELLIS: It prevents entrenched criminal behaviour

DENISE ELLIS: because once that becomes the normalisation,

DENISE ELLIS: once that becomes part of your lifestyle,

DENISE ELLIS: it's hard to break that cycle.

DENISE ELLIS: So it's easier to break if

DENISE ELLIS: early intervention is there.

DENISE ELLIS: It avoids going up in the chain of

DENISE ELLIS: criminality.

DENISE ELLIS: We've seen a hierarchy of gangs for instance.

DENISE ELLIS: So you have the faces, you have the

DENISE ELLIS: elders and the ones who are high up in

DENISE ELLIS: that chain and that leads

DENISE ELLIS: to the people who are on the streets, who

DENISE ELLIS: are dealing with guns, who are dealing with

DENISE ELLIS: drugs and weapons.

DENISE ELLIS: So early intervention breaks that chain of

DENISE ELLIS: going up in the hierarchal kind

DENISE ELLIS: of more serious criminality.

DENISE ELLIS: It prevents serious health and fatalities.

DENISE ELLIS: We know and we've seen that young people

DENISE ELLIS: who are exploited are at risk of serious

DENISE ELLIS: harm, so that early intervention is

DENISE ELLIS: key. It provides life opportunities

DENISE ELLIS: and alternative means of successes.

DENISE ELLIS: So when children are seeing these lifestyles

DENISE ELLIS: of, you know, these big mansions, these

DENISE ELLIS: fantastic cars, things that people

DENISE ELLIS: like pop stars and footballers have;

DENISE ELLIS: they feel that they're entering into a world

DENISE ELLIS: where all these things are gonna be given to

DENISE ELLIS: them. But to break that cycle and get

DENISE ELLIS: them on the path of other successes, of

DENISE ELLIS: career choices, is what is amazing with

DENISE ELLIS: early intervention.

DENISE ELLIS: So they're just a few safeguarding examples

DENISE ELLIS: of how early intervention can help.

PRODUCER: And what are some of the elements of strong

PRODUCER: early intervention? What does that look like?

DENISE ELLIS: We often look at offender and victim.

DENISE ELLIS: So, in order to focus on supporting

DENISE ELLIS: young people who are trapped,

DENISE ELLIS: it's important that we have to tackle

DENISE ELLIS: exploitation.

DENISE ELLIS: If you're a specialised practitioner, such

DENISE ELLIS: as a caseworker or a police investigator,

DENISE ELLIS: then it's about being able to recognise the

DENISE ELLIS: signs of child exploitation,

DENISE ELLIS: to identify the risks, the

DENISE ELLIS: harm and to disrupt those offenders.

DENISE ELLIS: I think that's the most important thing.

DENISE ELLIS: You know, rather than the focus being on

DENISE ELLIS: somebody who is shoplifting

DENISE ELLIS: or who is carrying drugs or weapons,

DENISE ELLIS: who is it that's targeted these young

DENISE ELLIS: people? The focus has to be on them and

DENISE ELLIS: disrupting their chain and line

DENISE ELLIS: of exploitation.

DENISE ELLIS: It's about supporting frontline

DENISE ELLIS: practitioners and promoting collaborative

DENISE ELLIS: opportunities.

DENISE ELLIS: Anyone working with young people has a

DENISE ELLIS: crucial role in dealing with

DENISE ELLIS: incidents when they happen and immediately,

DENISE ELLIS: and again, it's that timeline.

DENISE ELLIS: The earlier you can intervene and

DENISE ELLIS: disrupt these exploitive behaviours,

DENISE ELLIS: the more valuable that is for uncovering

DENISE ELLIS: child exploitation.

DENISE ELLIS: Everyone who engages with children has a

DENISE ELLIS: part to play.

DENISE ELLIS: Sometimes people just think it's children's

DENISE ELLIS: services. You know, the family need a social

DENISE ELLIS: worker. It's not just social services.

DENISE ELLIS: Everyone has a role to play in listening and

DENISE ELLIS: acting on those concerns.

DENISE ELLIS: Some people may have been sitting on

DENISE ELLIS: concerns for more than six months.

DENISE ELLIS: It's never too late.

DENISE ELLIS: That would be my message. That would my key

DENISE ELLIS: message. It's never too late to report abuse

DENISE ELLIS: or to report any concerns that

DENISE ELLIS: you have.

DENISE ELLIS: So for the young girl who was 12, who

DENISE ELLIS: travelled on that train and who felt that

DENISE ELLIS: she was invisible; we shouldn't let young

DENISE ELLIS: people be invisible.

DENISE ELLIS: They are at risk if they

DENISE ELLIS: are being exploited.

DENISE ELLIS: They may not know it.

DENISE ELLIS: Like I said before, it may seem just normal

DENISE ELLIS: behaviour for them, but if

DENISE ELLIS: they are being coerced or controlled

DENISE ELLIS: or paid or isolated

DENISE ELLIS: because they're not allowed to go anywhere

DENISE ELLIS: until that person who's controlling

DENISE ELLIS: them says they can.

DENISE ELLIS: That's abuse.

PRODUCER: Absolutely, and I think we need to be really

PRODUCER: clear here that child criminal exploitation of

PRODUCER: any kind is a form of child abuse.

PRODUCER: Tara, please can you go into a bit more detail

PRODUCER: about the work that the police does with

PRODUCER: children who are experiencing child criminal

PRODUCER: exploitation?

TARA MELLOWES: I can only speak for the way that my

TARA MELLOWES: force works; other forces have very

TARA MELLOWES: different ways of working.

TARA MELLOWES: So from my perspective, the support that we

TARA MELLOWES: provide is from a context of if

TARA MELLOWES: that child's been involved in criminal

TARA MELLOWES: activity, they've been involved in criminal

TARA MELLOWES: exploitation, and there is an element of

TARA MELLOWES: disruption that could be done for that

TARA MELLOWES: child, there's an element of disrupting the

TARA MELLOWES: perpetrators, that's my role and that's

TARA MELLOWES: what I would seek to do to protect that

TARA MELLOWES: child but also to protect other children

TARA MELLOWES: from those perpetrators.

TARA MELLOWES: I can either do that with or without a

TARA MELLOWES: child's support. Those are the tools that

TARA MELLOWES: are given to me to be able to take that

TARA MELLOWES: down the criminal justice route.

TARA MELLOWES: I'm a police officer so I look to go down

TARA MELLOWES: that route because that's what my job role

TARA MELLOWES: entails. But there's also an element of

TARA MELLOWES: support with regards to being able

TARA MELLOWES: to bring other professionals in to be able

TARA MELLOWES: to help that child, to be able to tap

TARA MELLOWES: into different resources, normally from a

TARA MELLOWES: social care perspective, but there's also

TARA MELLOWES: some really fantastic charities up and down

TARA MELLOWES: the country that specialise in support

TARA MELLOWES: that can be given to that child.

TARA MELLOWES: When I step away from my role or the

TARA MELLOWES: criminal justice element has been

TARA MELLOWES: finalised, I have resources to be able to

TARA MELLOWES: direct towards that child to be able to

TARA MELLOWES: support the overarching and the longer

TARA MELLOWES: term support, if that makes sense.

TARA MELLOWES: All forces have Working Together

TARA MELLOWES: strategies, so if we've got a child that's

TARA MELLOWES: starting to come under the radar — whether

TARA MELLOWES: that's under police radar or whether that's

TARA MELLOWES: under radar of social care, schools or

TARA MELLOWES: professionals — we have a process where

TARA MELLOWES: that concern is flagged up and then

TARA MELLOWES: all of the agencies that are involved with

TARA MELLOWES: that child come together.

TARA MELLOWES: We look at where the threat might be, we

TARA MELLOWES: look at what's going on and

TARA MELLOWES: have a think about who is best placed to be

TARA MELLOWES: able to do that, what you were talking

TARA MELLOWES: about with the early intervention.

TARA MELLOWES: Sometimes it's the early intervention from

TARA MELLOWES: a police perspective.

TARA MELLOWES: We have a team of detectives, we have team

TARA MELLOWES: of uniformed officers — PCs if you

TARA MELLOWES: like, although they don't wear their uniform

TARA MELLOWES: when they support the children — but they

TARA MELLOWES: are kind of a resource to be able to go

TARA MELLOWES: and visit children.

TARA MELLOWES: They'll build a rapport with that child,

TARA MELLOWES: they will go and have a chat, they will

TARA MELLOWES: visit and they're just effectively a go-to

TARA MELLOWES: point for that child.

TARA MELLOWES: If that ends up with the child being able

TARA MELLOWES: to talk more about what's happened to them

TARA MELLOWES: to the police officer, or they may find it

TARA MELLOWES: easier to talk to a social care

TARA MELLOWES: professional that's been put in to support

TARA MELLOWES: as well, there's

TARA MELLOWES: both areas of support there.

PRODUCER: Thanks Tara. It's really interesting to get an

PRODUCER: insight into how the police respond to criminal

PRODUCER: exploitation.

PRODUCER: Now, obviously the police is just one avenue for

PRODUCER: support with this issue.

PRODUCER: Denise, where else can people go to for support

PRODUCER: if they are concerned that a child they know or

PRODUCER: work with is being criminally exploited?

DENISE ELLIS: So anyone who's got concern for a child,

DENISE ELLIS: I would say reach out sooner

DENISE ELLIS: rather than later.

DENISE ELLIS: They can reach out to their statutory

DENISE ELLIS: agencies, which is children's services or

DENISE ELLIS: the police. They can reach out to

DENISE ELLIS: their education.

DENISE ELLIS: So if they're in school, to the head

DENISE ELLIS: teacher. Speak to the designated

DENISE ELLIS: safeguarding officer at the school.

DENISE ELLIS: Every school should have a designated

DENISE ELLIS: safeguarding officer.

DENISE ELLIS: Speak to their local GP

DENISE ELLIS: or health services in regards

DENISE ELLIS: to if they feel that there's any sexual

DENISE ELLIS: exploitation.

DENISE ELLIS: The NSPCC Helpline, there is also Childline,

DENISE ELLIS: there are legal services.

DENISE ELLIS: There is support out there.

DENISE ELLIS: You might feel that you're the only one.

DENISE ELLIS: You might feel that you don't want to get

DENISE ELLIS: anybody into trouble.

DENISE ELLIS: What you are doing by reaching out, you are

DENISE ELLIS: safeguarding.

DENISE ELLIS: You are being the voice of that young person

DENISE ELLIS: who may not have a voice or who may have

DENISE ELLIS: lost their voice or who maybe so scared

DENISE ELLIS: to reach out.

DENISE ELLIS: They're hoping that someone who is

DENISE ELLIS: a protective factor to them steps in

DENISE ELLIS: and says, "enough is enough.

DENISE ELLIS: I'm here to help.

DENISE ELLIS: I'm hear to listen.

DENISE ELLIS: I'm not here to judge.

DENISE ELLIS: I'm not here to blame.

DENISE ELLIS: It's not your fault, let me help you."

DENISE ELLIS: So the more that people do that,

DENISE ELLIS: the more opportunity and the chance that

DENISE ELLIS: we've got to reach out and safeguard more

DENISE ELLIS: young people at risk.

PRODUCER: Thank you. I think that's the perfect message to

PRODUCER: end our discussion on today.

PRODUCER: Thank you, Denise and Tara for taking part in

PRODUCER: this podcast. If you're listening and you want

PRODUCER: to learn more about child criminal exploitation,

PRODUCER: we have a suite of resources, including a new

PRODUCER: elearning course on county lines, available on

PRODUCER: the NSPCC Learning website.

PRODUCER: Check the podcast shownotes for more

PRODUCER: information. Thanks for listening.

OUTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning

OUTRO: Podcast.

OUTRO: At the time of recording, this episode's content

OUTRO: was up to date, but the world of safeguarding and

OUTRO: child protection is ever-changing.

OUTRO: So if you're looking for the most current

OUTRO: safeguarding and child protection training,

OUTRO: information or resources, please visit our

OUTRO: website for professionals at nspcc.org.uk/learning.