INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where
INTRO: we share learning and expertise in child protection
INTRO: from inside and outside of the organisation.
INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and
INTRO: share good practice on how we can all work together
INTRO: to keep babies, children and young people safe.
PRODUCER: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast.
PRODUCER: In this episode recorded in January 2025,
PRODUCER: we're going to be looking at the issue of child
PRODUCER: criminal exploitation.
PRODUCER: Child criminal exploitation is a form of child
PRODUCER: abuse where a child or young person is forced or
PRODUCER: coerced to engage in criminal activity or commit
PRODUCER: any type of crime.
PRODUCER: Since this podcast was recorded, the Crime and
PRODUCER: Policing Bill has been introduced into
PRODUCER: Parliament. which would introduce a new specific
PRODUCER: criminal offence of child criminal exploitation.
PRODUCER: This would target the adult as the primary
PRODUCER: offender in causing harm to the child by
PRODUCER: exploiting them to commit criminal activity.
PRODUCER: I'm joined by two guests with a wealth of
PRODUCER: knowledge and experience on the topic to discuss
PRODUCER: what professionals working with children need to
PRODUCER: know about criminal exploitation and what can be
PRODUCER: done to prevent children from being criminally
PRODUCER: exploited.
PRODUCER: Denise and Tara, please could you introduce
PRODUCER: yourselves?
DENISE ELLIS: Hi my name is Denise Ellis and I'm
DENISE ELLIS: the service head for the NSPCC Helpline.
DENISE ELLIS: I have the lead role for child
DENISE ELLIS: criminal exploitation as part of my
DENISE ELLIS: safeguarding role at the Helpline
DENISE ELLIS: and I have
DENISE ELLIS: nearly 43 years experience of
DENISE ELLIS: working with children and families from
DENISE ELLIS: nought right up to 18 years of age.
DENISE ELLIS: I previously worked for Manchester
DENISE ELLIS: Safeguarding Unit, and I currently
DENISE ELLIS: deliver training to professionals
DENISE ELLIS: in regards to identifying the signs
DENISE ELLIS: of child criminal exploitation.
TARA MELLOWES: My name is Tara Mellowes and I am a
TARA MELLOWES: Detective Constable based with
TARA MELLOWES: Leicestershire Police and I work within
TARA MELLOWES: their exploitation team.
TARA MELLOWES: So my kind of specialism is child criminal
TARA MELLOWES: exploitation but we're a team that cross
TARA MELLOWES: over, so I work alongside officers that
TARA MELLOWES: specialise in child sexual exploitation and
TARA MELLOWES: we work together within the exploitation
TARA MELLOWES: team.
PRODUCER: Thank you both for joining us on the podcast.
PRODUCER: Tara, please could you kick things off by giving
PRODUCER: us a brief overview of what child criminal
PRODUCER: exploitation is?
TARA MELLOWES: Annoyingly, we don't really have a
TARA MELLOWES: statutory definition for child criminal
TARA MELLOWES: exploitation. A lot of work is being done
TARA MELLOWES: by some agencies to try and rectify that.
TARA MELLOWES: However, we use a broader home office
TARA MELLOWES: definition which is, effectively, it's
TARA MELLOWES: a form of child abuse where the child is
TARA MELLOWES: being exploited to take part in
TARA MELLOWES: criminal activity, mainly on the behalf of
TARA MELLOWES: somebody else.
TARA MELLOWES: It's essentially an individual or groups of
TARA MELLOWES: people that would take advantage of the
TARA MELLOWES: imbalance of power that would be between
TARA MELLOWES: them and a child.
TARA MELLOWES: That can include coercion,
TARA MELLOWES: control, manipulation; it's just
TARA MELLOWES: essentially using all of that to get that
TARA MELLOWES: child to engage in criminal activity
TARA MELLOWES: but on behalf of somebody else,
TARA MELLOWES: for their own gain.
PRODUCER: Thanks Tara.
PRODUCER: And Denise, please can you tell us a bit more
PRODUCER: about the different forms that child criminal
PRODUCER: exploitation can take?
DENISE ELLIS: Yeah, so there are many forms of child
DENISE ELLIS: criminal exploitation.
DENISE ELLIS: It can be the dealing and transporting of
DENISE ELLIS: drugs or weapons.
DENISE ELLIS: It could be growing cannabis.
DENISE ELLIS: It can be encouraged to get involved
DENISE ELLIS: in theft and burglary.
DENISE ELLIS: Street crime, such as begging and
DENISE ELLIS: pickpocketing.
DENISE ELLIS: Compulsory labour, forced labour.
DENISE ELLIS: Sexual exploitation.
DENISE ELLIS: Drug trafficking.
DENISE ELLIS: Involvement in criminal gangs and violence,
DENISE ELLIS: modern slavery and stealing or shoplifting.
DENISE ELLIS: So there are a number of different ways
DENISE ELLIS: in which children can be criminally
DENISE ELLIS: exploited.
PRODUCER: Thanks, Denise.
PRODUCER: Another type of criminal exploitation that
PRODUCER: listeners may be familiar with is county lines.
PRODUCER: Tara, I know this is an area your work covers.
PRODUCER: Please, can you tell us a bit more about that
PRODUCER: form of exploitation?
TARA MELLOWES: That's where the bulk of my work is.
TARA MELLOWES: We see children being used as drug runners
TARA MELLOWES: that are trafficked, mainly out of big
TARA MELLOWES: cities into smaller cities in towns,
TARA MELLOWES: essentially for the purposes of working on
TARA MELLOWES: a county line.
TARA MELLOWES: For those that probably don't know what a
TARA MELLOWES: county line is, it's effectively a drug
TARA MELLOWES: dealing line that operates within a town or
TARA MELLOWES: a city, but may be orchestrated from
TARA MELLOWES: another larger city outside that force
TARA MELLOWES: area. And that tends to be mainly crack and
TARA MELLOWES: heroin drug dealing.
TARA MELLOWES: And so that's what I see the majority of
TARA MELLOWES: and a lot of the children that come under
TARA MELLOWES: my radar have been involved in that.
PRODUCER: And why are children targets for criminal
PRODUCER: exploitation?
PRODUCER: You mentioned earlier the imbalance of power
PRODUCER: between children and perpetrators, for example.
PRODUCER: Please can you perhaps expand on this and how
PRODUCER: children come to be targeted?
TARA MELLOWES: I think vulnerability plays
TARA MELLOWES: a huge part in that imbalance of
TARA MELLOWES: power, which naturally exists between an
TARA MELLOWES: adult and a child.
TARA MELLOWES: And also I think it's really important to
TARA MELLOWES: note that whilst there are some groups of
TARA MELLOWES: children that I would say are more
TARA MELLOWES: vulnerable to this kind of exploitation, I
TARA MELLOWES: have seen children from all walks of life
TARA MELLOWES: become involved.
TARA MELLOWES: I think we're naturally inclined to see,
TARA MELLOWES: from a stereotypical perspective, mainly
TARA MELLOWES: children from deprived areas of larger
TARA MELLOWES: cities, areas where gang culture is more
TARA MELLOWES: prominent, children with adverse childhood
TARA MELLOWES: experiences, children that have gone
TARA MELLOWES: through the social care system.
TARA MELLOWES: Yes, they're the ones that come under my
TARA MELLOWES: radar. But I've also worked with children
TARA MELLOWES: from the complete opposite end of the
TARA MELLOWES: spectrum, and I think the consistent factor
TARA MELLOWES: that I see all through the children that I
TARA MELLOWES: see is that area of vulnerability.
TARA MELLOWES: It's that targeting of that vulnerability.
TARA MELLOWES: Whether that vulnerability within that
TARA MELLOWES: child is that need for connection, and
TARA MELLOWES: that's how those children get involved in
TARA MELLOWES: gang culture. Whether that child's
TARA MELLOWES: need and the target of the vulnerability is
TARA MELLOWES: money. We talk about children that come
TARA MELLOWES: from very deprived areas of the country.
TARA MELLOWES: I've seen boys in particular who see it as
TARA MELLOWES: their role within that family to make
TARA MELLOWES: money for the family.
TARA MELLOWES: That's how they can get involved.
TARA MELLOWES: They're enticed by the ability to make a
TARA MELLOWES: lot of money very quickly, as so they
TARA MELLOWES: perceive it to be.
TARA MELLOWES: What normally happens then unfortunately is
TARA MELLOWES: that the perpetrators will target that
TARA MELLOWES: vulnerability and create a kind of 'hook',
TARA MELLOWES: if you like, whatever that 'hook' is to
TARA MELLOWES: hook that child in.
TARA MELLOWES: If I took money, for example.
TARA MELLOWES: The hook for that child is to have that
TARA MELLOWES: money come in. Someone might say to the
TARA MELLOWES: child, "right you go and go and sit in that
TARA MELLOWES: trap house for me for five days in this
TARA MELLOWES: area and I will pay you £500
TARA MELLOWES: for doing that for me." That child might go
TARA MELLOWES: and do that, and they'll do it three or
TARA MELLOWES: four times and not have any problem.
TARA MELLOWES: It will feel maybe quite easy to them.
TARA MELLOWES: They probably don't come under police
TARA MELLOWES: radar. They're probably not getting
TARA MELLOWES: arrested. So those three or four times that
TARA MELLOWES: they've done it, it feels quite easy to
TARA MELLOWES: make quite a large amount of money; but
TARA MELLOWES: that's where the hook is.
TARA MELLOWES: And then that's when things do start to
TARA MELLOWES: spiral.
TARA MELLOWES: It might be that on the third or fourth
TARA MELLOWES: time they've gone and done it, they're
TARA MELLOWES: arrested by police. All of a sudden, they
TARA MELLOWES: find themselves in a custody suite.
TARA MELLOWES: It may be that something's happened and
TARA MELLOWES: that child has either lost money or lost
TARA MELLOWES: drugs, and that's how that spirals very,
TARA MELLOWES: very quickly.
TARA MELLOWES: I think that's where the children don't see
TARA MELLOWES: the danger. Something that can feel quite
TARA MELLOWES: easy or okay at first, they don't
TARA MELLOWES: see the spiral that it can take very
TARA MELLOWES: quickly.
PRODUCER: Listening to you there Tara, I think one of the
PRODUCER: key points for listeners to remember is that
PRODUCER: whilst some children are at increased risk,
PRODUCER: criminal exploitation can happen to any child.
PRODUCER: So everyone needs to be vigilant.
PRODUCER: Denise, with this in mind, what are the signs of
PRODUCER: child criminal exploitation that professionals
PRODUCER: working with children need to look out for?
DENISE ELLIS: Yeah, so with this, you need to be very
DENISE ELLIS: careful. We refer to it as 'pennies in the
DENISE ELLIS: bank'. So what we wouldn't want to do is
DENISE ELLIS: for somebody just to think, oh,
DENISE ELLIS: somebody I know has been seen away from
DENISE ELLIS: home, missing from home or there's been a
DENISE ELLIS: change in their appearance or they've
DENISE ELLIS: been missing from school or their behaviours
DENISE ELLIS: have changed.
DENISE ELLIS: So, you know, it can be signs to look out
DENISE ELLIS: for.
DENISE ELLIS: Use of new slang words.
DENISE ELLIS: Carrying weapons. Having two mobile phones,
DENISE ELLIS: that's a common one.
DENISE ELLIS: It could be graffiti-style tags.
DENISE ELLIS: It can be a change in routine or
DENISE ELLIS: places seen that they wouldn't normally have
DENISE ELLIS: been seen.
DENISE ELLIS: Increased social media usage; we
DENISE ELLIS: know that young people do tend to
DENISE ELLIS: be on social media a lot, but it's just
DENISE ELLIS: looking out and being aware of some of those
DENISE ELLIS: signs.
DENISE ELLIS: Again, committing petty crimes and
DENISE ELLIS: being stopped and
DENISE ELLIS: seen in places they wouldn't normally be.
DENISE ELLIS: Wearing expensive clothing that can
DENISE ELLIS: be a sign — if they've not got the receipt
DENISE ELLIS: to show that it's been paid for.
DENISE ELLIS: Where have those extra mobile phones
DENISE ELLIS: come from? Where have those £200
DENISE ELLIS: trainers come from?
DENISE ELLIS: Abusing drugs and alcohol.
DENISE ELLIS: Refusing to seek medical help.
DENISE ELLIS: Repeated sexual health conditions,
DENISE ELLIS: unwanted pregnancies, getting involved in
DENISE ELLIS: fights, more physical violence.
DENISE ELLIS: So yeah, there are so many different things.
DENISE ELLIS: But in regards to county lines,
DENISE ELLIS: one of the things that— there was one young
DENISE ELLIS: person who'd said that they were travelling
DENISE ELLIS: on a train at 12 years of age,
DENISE ELLIS: going outside of the
DENISE ELLIS: place, the geographical area where they
DENISE ELLIS: normally lived.
DENISE ELLIS: They said that they were invisible.
DENISE ELLIS: No one stopped them.
DENISE ELLIS: No one said hello or, you know, where are
DENISE ELLIS: you going? Why are you on your own?
DENISE ELLIS: This was a 12-year-old person who's being
DENISE ELLIS: asked to travel solo to London
DENISE ELLIS: and was having to go into an area they
DENISE ELLIS: didn't know before. So if you see somebody
DENISE ELLIS: and they seem lost or they might have a
DENISE ELLIS: school uniform that just doesn't fit in with
DENISE ELLIS: that geographical area.
DENISE ELLIS: These are signs to look out for.
PRODUCER: Thanks Denise.
PRODUCER: And Tara, can you give us an overview of the
PRODUCER: risks associated with child criminal
PRODUCER: exploitation?
TARA MELLOWES: I think the risks are absolutely huge and
TARA MELLOWES: are so multifaceted, it's really hard to
TARA MELLOWES: contain them into a very small, brief
TARA MELLOWES: overview.
TARA MELLOWES: But I think for me [the one] that jumps out
TARA MELLOWES: the most obvious is the criminality element
TARA MELLOWES: of it. Speaking from a police perspective,
TARA MELLOWES: our standpoint when we come across children
TARA MELLOWES: is we don't want to criminalise children.
TARA MELLOWES: It's not something that we feel comfortable
TARA MELLOWES: doing. Our first standpoint will always be
TARA MELLOWES: to look at the broader picture of what's
TARA MELLOWES: going on for that child but criminalisation
TARA MELLOWES: in itself, whether that's through
TARA MELLOWES: being arrested for drug dealing, if they're
TARA MELLOWES: getting involved in county line drug
TARA MELLOWES: dealing, it's the criminalisation. If they
TARA MELLOWES: are getting involved in other types of
TARA MELLOWES: offending, whether those children are
TARA MELLOWES: involved in a gang culture and a lifestyle,
TARA MELLOWES: we get violent offending that crops up with
TARA MELLOWES: it as well.
TARA MELLOWES: So that's the biggest kind of thing that I
TARA MELLOWES: see is the risks that child is going to
TARA MELLOWES: find themselves in a custody cell, or
TARA MELLOWES: getting themselves involved in serious
TARA MELLOWES: harm and violence against other people,
TARA MELLOWES: against each other.
TARA MELLOWES: That's the bit that I see the most of.
TARA MELLOWES: But then the tail end of that as well is
TARA MELLOWES: the knock-on effect that that has on that
TARA MELLOWES: child, whether that is the physical harm
TARA MELLOWES: to themselves. Getting involved in county
TARA MELLOWES: line drug dealing normally has an element
TARA MELLOWES: of violence associated with it as well,
TARA MELLOWES: particularly in areas where there's
TARA MELLOWES: numerous county lines running; there can be
TARA MELLOWES: animosity and violence between different
TARA MELLOWES: entities that are operating in certain
TARA MELLOWES: areas. Those that are getting involved, or
TARA MELLOWES: starting to get involved, in gang culture
TARA MELLOWES: and lifestyle, violence can be used
TARA MELLOWES: as a bit of a test or a bit of an
TARA MELLOWES: initiation to be able to become part of
TARA MELLOWES: that element.
TARA MELLOWES: That kind of leads on to the physical and
TARA MELLOWES: the psychological harm of what happens with
TARA MELLOWES: those children.
TARA MELLOWES: It's something, particularly the
TARA MELLOWES: psychological element of it, isn't
TARA MELLOWES: something that's probably the most
TARA MELLOWES: immediate to them.
TARA MELLOWES: They can go years before
TARA MELLOWES: those psychological elements become
TARA MELLOWES: apparent and they all form part of, you
TARA MELLOWES: know, quite adverse childhood experiences
TARA MELLOWES: that we talk about when we talk about
TARA MELLOWES: adults and how they behave and how
TARA MELLOWES: their formed later on in life and the
TARA MELLOWES: impact of that is massive.
TARA MELLOWES: And I think that's where the concerns are
TARA MELLOWES: for me. Even those children that have come
TARA MELLOWES: through and been involved in CCE (child
TARA MELLOWES: criminal exploitation), that maybe feel
TARA MELLOWES: like they've come out of it unscathed, it's
TARA MELLOWES: the impact that that has on later down the
TARA MELLOWES: line.
PRODUCER: So there's both the short-term risks, such as
PRODUCER: criminalisation and physical abuse, but also
PRODUCER: those long-term impacts of adverse childhood
PRODUCER: experiences and trauma associated with the
PRODUCER: exploitation. So the risks are really clear.
PRODUCER: We also know that it can be really difficult to
PRODUCER: extricate children from criminal exploitation
PRODUCER: once they've become caught up in it.
PRODUCER: So prevention and early intervention takes on an
PRODUCER: increased importance.
PRODUCER: Denise, please can you tell us a bit more about
PRODUCER: this?
DENISE ELLIS: Early intervention is incredibly important.
DENISE ELLIS: It can provide targeted expert
DENISE ELLIS: support to help children at risk
DENISE ELLIS: to find a positive path forward away
DENISE ELLIS: from criminality.
DENISE ELLIS: So things to consider: early recognition
DENISE ELLIS: nips things in the bud.
DENISE ELLIS: That's one of the key things.
DENISE ELLIS: It prevents normalisation.
DENISE ELLIS: And one of the things that we hear from
DENISE ELLIS: young people who are being criminally
DENISE ELLIS: exploited is that they think that it's
DENISE ELLIS: normal. That it's normal to carry weapons.
DENISE ELLIS: It's normal to carry drugs.
DENISE ELLIS: It's not normal to be raped.
DENISE ELLIS: It is never normal to raped or
DENISE ELLIS: abused in any way.
DENISE ELLIS: It prevents escalation of more serious
DENISE ELLIS: crime. Obviously the grooming and
DENISE ELLIS: the drawing young people into this,
DENISE ELLIS: what they portray as a fantastic
DENISE ELLIS: world of, you know, do you want to have
DENISE ELLIS: a £200 pair of trainers or do you wanna earn
DENISE ELLIS: £500 pound.
DENISE ELLIS: For some young people that's a lure.
DENISE ELLIS: That's kind of... this sounds fabulous.
DENISE ELLIS: They don't have to do anything at first.
DENISE ELLIS: But nipping things in the bud and
DENISE ELLIS: early interventions prevents that escalation
DENISE ELLIS: of more serious crime because nothing
DENISE ELLIS: is free in this world.
DENISE ELLIS: So if you've got a brand new
DENISE ELLIS: £200 pair of trainers or mobile phone,
DENISE ELLIS: there is some kind of payback for that.
DENISE ELLIS: So it might start off with, "oh, can
DENISE ELLIS: you just transport some cannabis for
DENISE ELLIS: us?" But that cannabis then turns into
DENISE ELLIS: Class A drugs such as cocaine, heroin,
DENISE ELLIS: crack cocaine and the increase in
DENISE ELLIS: criminalisation goes up and up.
DENISE ELLIS: So early intervention
DENISE ELLIS: breaks that kind of cycle.
DENISE ELLIS: It prevents criminalising children.
DENISE ELLIS: We often hear professionals use
DENISE ELLIS: criminalising language.
DENISE ELLIS: You know, "oh the young person was
DENISE ELLIS: promiscuous" — you're using blaming language
DENISE ELLIS: for somebody who's a potential victim.
DENISE ELLIS: So there should be no blaming.
DENISE ELLIS: Young people who have been exploited
DENISE ELLIS: are victims.
DENISE ELLIS: It prevents entrenched criminal behaviour
DENISE ELLIS: because once that becomes the normalisation,
DENISE ELLIS: once that becomes part of your lifestyle,
DENISE ELLIS: it's hard to break that cycle.
DENISE ELLIS: So it's easier to break if
DENISE ELLIS: early intervention is there.
DENISE ELLIS: It avoids going up in the chain of
DENISE ELLIS: criminality.
DENISE ELLIS: We've seen a hierarchy of gangs for instance.
DENISE ELLIS: So you have the faces, you have the
DENISE ELLIS: elders and the ones who are high up in
DENISE ELLIS: that chain and that leads
DENISE ELLIS: to the people who are on the streets, who
DENISE ELLIS: are dealing with guns, who are dealing with
DENISE ELLIS: drugs and weapons.
DENISE ELLIS: So early intervention breaks that chain of
DENISE ELLIS: going up in the hierarchal kind
DENISE ELLIS: of more serious criminality.
DENISE ELLIS: It prevents serious health and fatalities.
DENISE ELLIS: We know and we've seen that young people
DENISE ELLIS: who are exploited are at risk of serious
DENISE ELLIS: harm, so that early intervention is
DENISE ELLIS: key. It provides life opportunities
DENISE ELLIS: and alternative means of successes.
DENISE ELLIS: So when children are seeing these lifestyles
DENISE ELLIS: of, you know, these big mansions, these
DENISE ELLIS: fantastic cars, things that people
DENISE ELLIS: like pop stars and footballers have;
DENISE ELLIS: they feel that they're entering into a world
DENISE ELLIS: where all these things are gonna be given to
DENISE ELLIS: them. But to break that cycle and get
DENISE ELLIS: them on the path of other successes, of
DENISE ELLIS: career choices, is what is amazing with
DENISE ELLIS: early intervention.
DENISE ELLIS: So they're just a few safeguarding examples
DENISE ELLIS: of how early intervention can help.
PRODUCER: And what are some of the elements of strong
PRODUCER: early intervention? What does that look like?
DENISE ELLIS: We often look at offender and victim.
DENISE ELLIS: So, in order to focus on supporting
DENISE ELLIS: young people who are trapped,
DENISE ELLIS: it's important that we have to tackle
DENISE ELLIS: exploitation.
DENISE ELLIS: If you're a specialised practitioner, such
DENISE ELLIS: as a caseworker or a police investigator,
DENISE ELLIS: then it's about being able to recognise the
DENISE ELLIS: signs of child exploitation,
DENISE ELLIS: to identify the risks, the
DENISE ELLIS: harm and to disrupt those offenders.
DENISE ELLIS: I think that's the most important thing.
DENISE ELLIS: You know, rather than the focus being on
DENISE ELLIS: somebody who is shoplifting
DENISE ELLIS: or who is carrying drugs or weapons,
DENISE ELLIS: who is it that's targeted these young
DENISE ELLIS: people? The focus has to be on them and
DENISE ELLIS: disrupting their chain and line
DENISE ELLIS: of exploitation.
DENISE ELLIS: It's about supporting frontline
DENISE ELLIS: practitioners and promoting collaborative
DENISE ELLIS: opportunities.
DENISE ELLIS: Anyone working with young people has a
DENISE ELLIS: crucial role in dealing with
DENISE ELLIS: incidents when they happen and immediately,
DENISE ELLIS: and again, it's that timeline.
DENISE ELLIS: The earlier you can intervene and
DENISE ELLIS: disrupt these exploitive behaviours,
DENISE ELLIS: the more valuable that is for uncovering
DENISE ELLIS: child exploitation.
DENISE ELLIS: Everyone who engages with children has a
DENISE ELLIS: part to play.
DENISE ELLIS: Sometimes people just think it's children's
DENISE ELLIS: services. You know, the family need a social
DENISE ELLIS: worker. It's not just social services.
DENISE ELLIS: Everyone has a role to play in listening and
DENISE ELLIS: acting on those concerns.
DENISE ELLIS: Some people may have been sitting on
DENISE ELLIS: concerns for more than six months.
DENISE ELLIS: It's never too late.
DENISE ELLIS: That would be my message. That would my key
DENISE ELLIS: message. It's never too late to report abuse
DENISE ELLIS: or to report any concerns that
DENISE ELLIS: you have.
DENISE ELLIS: So for the young girl who was 12, who
DENISE ELLIS: travelled on that train and who felt that
DENISE ELLIS: she was invisible; we shouldn't let young
DENISE ELLIS: people be invisible.
DENISE ELLIS: They are at risk if they
DENISE ELLIS: are being exploited.
DENISE ELLIS: They may not know it.
DENISE ELLIS: Like I said before, it may seem just normal
DENISE ELLIS: behaviour for them, but if
DENISE ELLIS: they are being coerced or controlled
DENISE ELLIS: or paid or isolated
DENISE ELLIS: because they're not allowed to go anywhere
DENISE ELLIS: until that person who's controlling
DENISE ELLIS: them says they can.
DENISE ELLIS: That's abuse.
PRODUCER: Absolutely, and I think we need to be really
PRODUCER: clear here that child criminal exploitation of
PRODUCER: any kind is a form of child abuse.
PRODUCER: Tara, please can you go into a bit more detail
PRODUCER: about the work that the police does with
PRODUCER: children who are experiencing child criminal
PRODUCER: exploitation?
TARA MELLOWES: I can only speak for the way that my
TARA MELLOWES: force works; other forces have very
TARA MELLOWES: different ways of working.
TARA MELLOWES: So from my perspective, the support that we
TARA MELLOWES: provide is from a context of if
TARA MELLOWES: that child's been involved in criminal
TARA MELLOWES: activity, they've been involved in criminal
TARA MELLOWES: exploitation, and there is an element of
TARA MELLOWES: disruption that could be done for that
TARA MELLOWES: child, there's an element of disrupting the
TARA MELLOWES: perpetrators, that's my role and that's
TARA MELLOWES: what I would seek to do to protect that
TARA MELLOWES: child but also to protect other children
TARA MELLOWES: from those perpetrators.
TARA MELLOWES: I can either do that with or without a
TARA MELLOWES: child's support. Those are the tools that
TARA MELLOWES: are given to me to be able to take that
TARA MELLOWES: down the criminal justice route.
TARA MELLOWES: I'm a police officer so I look to go down
TARA MELLOWES: that route because that's what my job role
TARA MELLOWES: entails. But there's also an element of
TARA MELLOWES: support with regards to being able
TARA MELLOWES: to bring other professionals in to be able
TARA MELLOWES: to help that child, to be able to tap
TARA MELLOWES: into different resources, normally from a
TARA MELLOWES: social care perspective, but there's also
TARA MELLOWES: some really fantastic charities up and down
TARA MELLOWES: the country that specialise in support
TARA MELLOWES: that can be given to that child.
TARA MELLOWES: When I step away from my role or the
TARA MELLOWES: criminal justice element has been
TARA MELLOWES: finalised, I have resources to be able to
TARA MELLOWES: direct towards that child to be able to
TARA MELLOWES: support the overarching and the longer
TARA MELLOWES: term support, if that makes sense.
TARA MELLOWES: All forces have Working Together
TARA MELLOWES: strategies, so if we've got a child that's
TARA MELLOWES: starting to come under the radar — whether
TARA MELLOWES: that's under police radar or whether that's
TARA MELLOWES: under radar of social care, schools or
TARA MELLOWES: professionals — we have a process where
TARA MELLOWES: that concern is flagged up and then
TARA MELLOWES: all of the agencies that are involved with
TARA MELLOWES: that child come together.
TARA MELLOWES: We look at where the threat might be, we
TARA MELLOWES: look at what's going on and
TARA MELLOWES: have a think about who is best placed to be
TARA MELLOWES: able to do that, what you were talking
TARA MELLOWES: about with the early intervention.
TARA MELLOWES: Sometimes it's the early intervention from
TARA MELLOWES: a police perspective.
TARA MELLOWES: We have a team of detectives, we have team
TARA MELLOWES: of uniformed officers — PCs if you
TARA MELLOWES: like, although they don't wear their uniform
TARA MELLOWES: when they support the children — but they
TARA MELLOWES: are kind of a resource to be able to go
TARA MELLOWES: and visit children.
TARA MELLOWES: They'll build a rapport with that child,
TARA MELLOWES: they will go and have a chat, they will
TARA MELLOWES: visit and they're just effectively a go-to
TARA MELLOWES: point for that child.
TARA MELLOWES: If that ends up with the child being able
TARA MELLOWES: to talk more about what's happened to them
TARA MELLOWES: to the police officer, or they may find it
TARA MELLOWES: easier to talk to a social care
TARA MELLOWES: professional that's been put in to support
TARA MELLOWES: as well, there's
TARA MELLOWES: both areas of support there.
PRODUCER: Thanks Tara. It's really interesting to get an
PRODUCER: insight into how the police respond to criminal
PRODUCER: exploitation.
PRODUCER: Now, obviously the police is just one avenue for
PRODUCER: support with this issue.
PRODUCER: Denise, where else can people go to for support
PRODUCER: if they are concerned that a child they know or
PRODUCER: work with is being criminally exploited?
DENISE ELLIS: So anyone who's got concern for a child,
DENISE ELLIS: I would say reach out sooner
DENISE ELLIS: rather than later.
DENISE ELLIS: They can reach out to their statutory
DENISE ELLIS: agencies, which is children's services or
DENISE ELLIS: the police. They can reach out to
DENISE ELLIS: their education.
DENISE ELLIS: So if they're in school, to the head
DENISE ELLIS: teacher. Speak to the designated
DENISE ELLIS: safeguarding officer at the school.
DENISE ELLIS: Every school should have a designated
DENISE ELLIS: safeguarding officer.
DENISE ELLIS: Speak to their local GP
DENISE ELLIS: or health services in regards
DENISE ELLIS: to if they feel that there's any sexual
DENISE ELLIS: exploitation.
DENISE ELLIS: The NSPCC Helpline, there is also Childline,
DENISE ELLIS: there are legal services.
DENISE ELLIS: There is support out there.
DENISE ELLIS: You might feel that you're the only one.
DENISE ELLIS: You might feel that you don't want to get
DENISE ELLIS: anybody into trouble.
DENISE ELLIS: What you are doing by reaching out, you are
DENISE ELLIS: safeguarding.
DENISE ELLIS: You are being the voice of that young person
DENISE ELLIS: who may not have a voice or who may have
DENISE ELLIS: lost their voice or who maybe so scared
DENISE ELLIS: to reach out.
DENISE ELLIS: They're hoping that someone who is
DENISE ELLIS: a protective factor to them steps in
DENISE ELLIS: and says, "enough is enough.
DENISE ELLIS: I'm here to help.
DENISE ELLIS: I'm hear to listen.
DENISE ELLIS: I'm not here to judge.
DENISE ELLIS: I'm not here to blame.
DENISE ELLIS: It's not your fault, let me help you."
DENISE ELLIS: So the more that people do that,
DENISE ELLIS: the more opportunity and the chance that
DENISE ELLIS: we've got to reach out and safeguard more
DENISE ELLIS: young people at risk.
PRODUCER: Thank you. I think that's the perfect message to
PRODUCER: end our discussion on today.
PRODUCER: Thank you, Denise and Tara for taking part in
PRODUCER: this podcast. If you're listening and you want
PRODUCER: to learn more about child criminal exploitation,
PRODUCER: we have a suite of resources, including a new
PRODUCER: elearning course on county lines, available on
PRODUCER: the NSPCC Learning website.
PRODUCER: Check the podcast shownotes for more
PRODUCER: information. Thanks for listening.
OUTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning
OUTRO: Podcast.
OUTRO: At the time of recording, this episode's content
OUTRO: was up to date, but the world of safeguarding and
OUTRO: child protection is ever-changing.
OUTRO: So if you're looking for the most current
OUTRO: safeguarding and child protection training,
OUTRO: information or resources, please visit our
OUTRO: website for professionals at nspcc.org.uk/learning.