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DAVID COKE: I often get asked what it was like to be there.

It's a difficult question to answer because there isn't

anything like it in modern life. It's a sort of slightly strange

offspring of the Buckingham Palace Garden Party and

Glastonbury.

JAMES GRASBY : Garden parties in the 18th century weren't garden

parties like we know today. It was more like entering a fantasy

world of hedonism and abandonment.

For the likes of you and me, you could pay your pennies and head

to a public garden party, like Vauxhall in London. But the

place I'm visiting today, Claremont Landscape Garden in

Surrey, with its winding paths and lakeside walks, was private.

It was by invitation only.

Have you ever imagined being a fly on the wall of history?

We're transporting you back for the inside story of the people,

places, and moments that made us.

I'm James Grasby. Lean in for a tale from time, Back When.

Before I head to Surrey to discover more of Claremont's

fascinating history, I thought I'd take you on a journey of

escapism. To the world of TV and one of the hottest costume

dramas. This is Bridgerton, set in Regency-era London.

GENERIC: Pen? Colin.

JAMES GRASBY : Think lavish London do's.

GENERIC: I did not know you would be here. Sorry to

disappoint.

JAMES GRASBY : Think scandal.

GENERIC: Have you seen Miss Thompson?

JAMES GRASBY : And love rivalry.

GENERIC: She is ill.

JAMES GRASBY : And you get the picture.

GENERIC: My Mama had to stay home with her. Papa had to

chaperone. I'm quite enjoying the fact that he is here. Mama

would never allow me to wear a dress like this. Not yellow

enough I think.

Mr Bridgerton. I believe you owe me a dance this evening and I

only have one more space remaining on my card at present.

How convenient.

Penelope, I did not see you there.

I'm afraid I cannot offer you that dance, Miss Cowper. I am to

escort Miss Featherington to the floor.

JAMES GRASBY : That scene was set at Vauxhall Pleasure

Gardens, the outdoor entertainment venue of its day.

Vauxhall was the public garden to be seen at. Claremont, where

I'm headed tomorrow, was invitation only, but it was also

a place to party.

I've arrived after an evening watching Bridgerton.

Leaving the busy road and with one or two rather noisy

aircraft, I'm entering what looks to be a leafy paradise.

Welcome to Claremont, the sign says. There is a pretty

pavilion, which looks like the ticket office. It's even got a

white dove on the roof. What could be more lovely? Hello.

GENERIC: Hello.

JAMES GRASBY : Good morning. I wonder if you could show me the

way to my friend Rebecca Wallace.

GENERIC: Follow me. She's over by the rowing boat. It's

Charlotte and Victoria.

JAMES GRASBY : Thank you very much indeed. Victoria and

Charlotte, the rowing boats.

This looks very promising. Arched opening and this leafy

glaze and there is my friend Rebecca.

REBECCA WALLIS: Hello James

JAMES GRASBY : What a beautiful morning, it's spring.

REBECCA WALLIS: Look at the sunshine reflecting on the lake

and you've got the geese coming over to say hello as well.

JAMES GRASBY : Behind you is a lake going off into the far

distance, pristine lawns and rising ground with trees and all

the promise of temples and little bits and pieces. It's got

a big story this place?

REBECCA WALLIS: It has. It's arguably one of the most

well-known gardens of its day. We're talking 300 years ago.

It's monumental in terms of scale, ambition, in terms of the

setting.

JAMES GRASBY : I can resist it no longer. Let's go for a walk.

What to your mind makes it so incredible and important?

REBECCA WALLIS: It's a succession of very wealthy and

influential owners and they had the opportunity and the means to

take on the very best garden designers of the era in the 18th

century.

JAMES GRASBY : Rebecca it's taken my breath away.

REBECCA WALLIS: We're walking along a path which was once the

original Portsmouth Road, the road was relocated in the 18th

century at great expense to ensure the privacy of the owners

of Claremont and the fact they probably didn't want something

to disturb the most magical landscape that you see around

you today.

JAMES GRASBY : That's a lovely idea, diverting a sort of HS2 so

that you could build yourself a garden.

REBECCA WALLIS: And it's incredible to think that the

ability to do that but also to make sure that the garden looks

at its very finest.

And you can see all these features as we're walking around

on the left-hand side across the lake we've got the Belle Isle,

as it was called, with the building in the centre. That

would originally have had a bridge to it.

We'll be coming up shortly to the grotto. You know, all of

these features that were so important to give a sense of

surprise and joy and interest to people.

What's really interesting about Claremont is the time that it's

developed in the 18th century is exactly at the same time as

there's a huge amount of social change in terms of expectation

about what gardens should do and what they should offer,

particularly in terms of entertainment. They are pleasure

gardens rather than productive crop growing gardens.

They are spaces to gather, to escape your troubles. Those that

were very wealthy, it was becoming almost expected that

you would have a pleasure ground, a pleasure garden like

this to entertain, to host events, to stage large galas and

to really impress your neighbours. It was very much

about looking at what Duke of'such and such' had done and

then try and copy it yourself.

So we're going to continue around the garden. We met by the

boats. And the current garden entrance. That actually wasn't

the original entrance that visitors to Claremont in the

18th century would have seen. We would have come from the other

end of the garden, but we'll walk round and show you the

moments of reveal and views that would have been intended.

JAMES GRASBY : How lovely. Lead the way.

REBECCA WALLIS: Will do.

JAMES GRASBY : Rebecca, that was a brisk climb. I wasn't

expecting that.

This is the margins of the garden. But in the distance, I

can see a four-square classical house, which I guess is

Claremont.

REBECCA WALLIS: This would have been the visitor entrance to the

gardens. So you can get a sense here of how visitors would have

walked from the house across the landscape and accessed the

formal gardens.

JAMES GRASBY : So Rebecca, as a visitor, I've arrived here. This

was the entrance to the garden, and there is the great house.

But who was I coming to see?

REBECCA WALLIS: Guests to Claremont in the 18th century

were visiting the Duke and Duchess Of Newcastle. Thomas

Pelham-Holles and his wife Henrietta lived here for about

40, 50 years. They were socially very well connected.

He was a politician for over 30 years and Prime Minister twice

and was hosting events here for the great and the good of the

day. So we're talking politicians, nobility, dare I

say royalty at times. He and his wife would host these large

gatherings akin to fete champetres.

JAMES GRASBY : Fete champetre. That has lovely resonances.

Fetes and gardens, pleasure and fun outside.

REBECCA WALLIS: And Claremont lends itself to that. And, you

know, whether he's hosting a large party, a large fete or

garden party, as we might call it today, or a small intimate

gathering, the variety of entertainment on offer. The

music that might be played, the games that might be played.

There are moments around this garden where you could really do

as your heart desires.

JAMES GRASBY : Hundreds of people in glamorous outfits,

music, jollity, drink, food, fun.

REBECCA WALLIS: Places like Claremont were really incredibly

important because they were places where people could

network as well as socialise and be entertained, and it was

incredibly important in terms of that ability to get on in

society.

DAVID COKE: Really, ordinary people in smaller houses didn't

socialise very much. There was a hole in the market. I'm David

Coke and I'm a social historian specialising in the Georgian

Pleasure Gardens of London.

The trip to Vauxhall started usually with a trip over the

river.

It really represented a kind of separation from ordinary life in

London, from your business, from your stresses and strains, from

all your worries, and you would leave them behind, find Vauxhall

Gardens. The first thing you'd notice would be the music. The

bandstand was surrounded by things called supper boxes,

which were a bit like theatre boxes, where people would go to

have a bite to eat. When I say a bite, that's really what it was.

The food was very sparse and extremely expensive.

Sitting in your supper box, you could watch the other people

going by, and one of the great joys of Vauxhall was to see the

other people there, see who they were with, see what they were

wearing, see how expensive they looked, and see who was rushing

off one of the dark walks with somebody else, so you would know

who was pairing up with who. And that was all part of the gossip

of the time.

Later on, the entertainment became much more, I suppose,

popular. There were things like tightrope dancers. An American

brought his wild cats. Lions, tigers, cheetahs, leopards. So

he would take in a lamb or something like that or a small

child and show them how well trained they were.

I often get asked what it was like to be there. It's a

difficult question to answer because there isn't anything

like it in modern life. It's a sort of slightly strange

offspring of the Buckingham Palace Garden Party and

Glastonbury.

JAMES GRASBY : Rebecca, you've brought me out of the wind into

this lovely area of Lawn. Claremont is full of surprises.

REBECCA WALLIS: Claremont is full of these amazing surprises,

and then we have a real showstopper to show you later.

Have you? But before that, I'd like to introduce Graham

Alderton, our head gardener here.

JAMES GRASBY : Graham, how do you do?

GRAHAM ALDERTON: How do you do, James?

JAMES GRASBY : You're the luckiest man alive.

GRAHAM ALDERTON: I am.

JAMES GRASBY : It's beautiful.

GRAHAM ALDERTON: Claremont is incredibly important as it

charts the history, the origins of the English landscape

movement. We had four of the most influential designers

leaving their Mark on the landscape here. First of all, we

have Vanbrugh. If you look behind you, you can see the

Belvedere. And then the Leisure Garden all comes out from this

area.

JAMES GRASBY : Wow. Graham Claremont, you both have

ambushed me again. That is extraordinary. I mean, the

ground rises. That's about 150 metres, I guess, to the top with

beautiful symmetrical beech hedges neatly clipped by your

fair hand I'd guess.

GRAHAM ALDERTON: He builds this not long after he sells it to

Thomas Pelham-Holles. Bridgeman comes in just after Vanbrugh.

Bridgeman puts in the pond, the amphitheatre, and a few walks so

the Duke can get his daily exercise. William Kent then is

Brought in. Kent is very muck the instigator of the English

Landscape Movement. He gets rid of the formal lines, he

introduces meandering walks, and he puts in small buildings.

Then we have Capability Brown, who had a very light touch. The

area around the current house, the only area where there's a

Brownian landscape, big, wide, open vistas.

JAMES GRASBY : You're in a long line, a long trajectory, of

people who have loved this place, nurtured it, and also

thought deeply about it.

GRAHAM ALDERTON: To be able to work in the footsteps of

Vanbrugh, Bridgman, Kent and Brown is quite a rarity, but

some of these designers worked at Stowe as well, which I

understand you're familiar with. In fact, you were watching it

yesterday whilst you were watching an episode of

Bridgerton. Bridgerton was actually filmed at Stowe.

HANNAH GREIG: To be at Stowe to film the Vauxhall Garden scenes

for Bridgerton was just one of the most transporting and

remarkable nights of my life. I'm Hannah Greig, Professor Of

History and a consultant to film and television.

The gardens were just absolutely packed with supporting artists.

It was full of colour and noise and drama. We had music and

fireworks. There was dancing and you could get a sense of what it

was like to be at a public pleasure garden in the 18th

century. How thrilling and new, as if something incredible was

just about to happen that night.

I've always loved that sense of a closeness to the past, of

visiting historic houses and thinking about who lived there

or who visited there, who those ghosts were, what their stories

were like, were they people like me or not, what were their lives

like.

And much of my academic historical research is based in

archives, dealing with letters and diaries. It can sometimes

feel slightly removed from the actual environments and

locations and places. And then when I'm filming, it does almost

feel like you're transplanted back into a different era. And

it's exciting to see those locations brought to life in a

way that's similar to the way in which they would have been

experienced in the past.

GRAHAM ALDERTON: Okay well if we all go up these steps I'll

introduce you to our show stopper.

JAMES GRASBY : We're walking up really quite a steep flight of

gravel steps and there's a pristine perfect line on the

horizon. It could be a cliff edge that you you're leading me

to.

What an absolutely sensational view.

This is a great vantage point. And in front of us is your

garden.

GRAHAM ALDERTON: It is.

JAMES GRASBY : Falling away down to the sparkly lake in the

spring light is a series of terraces. We're above the

amphitheater.

This is a terrific sight, isn't it? And very unexpected. Wow.

Rebecca, it feels a bit like being in the upper circle of a

huge theatre, doesn't it?

REBECCA WALLIS: This is the prime view as you came from the

house to see, you know, what you could go and explore. You can

just tantalising see the island and the lake as it curves round

and the paths that would take you across. But also really

important to think about the wider views. Behind us, we've

got amazing views of London. But also down into Surrey and to the

other estates as well. So you are getting some of the prime

views, not only of this garden, but also of the neighbourhood

and what else was going on. So it was a real vantage point.

You're absolutely right, that point about the upper circle,

this is the prime spot to be in.

JAMES GRASBY : You could keep an eye on developing relationships

between new lovers.

REBECCA WALLIS: Who's crossing the bridge together? Who's

sailing on the lake? Who's maybe tucking themselves around a

corner into an avenue of trees to make sure that they're not

seen?

JAMES GRASBY : Rebecca, it's a place designed for pleasure and

parties. The Fete Champetre sounds stunning and of course it

would be a lovely thing to do it again. I mean, when was the last

time a Fete Champetre happened here?

REBECCA WALLIS: About 20 years ago, but actually it was about

200 years before that that they probably stopped happening. So

after the Duke and Duchess Of Newcastle sell the property,

after a succession of owners, it then becomes owned by the royal

family. Princess Charlotte and Leopold live here. Just behind

me, actually, at the top of the amphitheatre, we have the

remains, the foundations of a monument to Princess Charlotte.

They were much celebrated, both as a couple, but particularly

her as the only legitimate daughter of George IV, the king.

Her husband, Prince Leopold, erected a monument after her

death, aged just 21, in childbirth in 1817.

When she died, there was a public outpouring of grief.

People were absolutely devastated for her and for the

family. And so Leopold used a tea house structure to allow

people to grieve and himself to grieve her.

And it was really that moment that shifted people's

perceptions of Claremont. And we see a period of time where the

idea of partying here is not a priority. Royal families do live

here and they do entertain, but not on the scale that we'd seen

before.

It was only after a period of renovation in the 20th century

by the National Trust that the idea came to the Trust to

celebrate this transformation of the garden with a series of Fete

Champetre's.

That's not to say that the type of Fete Champetre's didn't

happen elsewhere in the country at other great gardens and

indeed today they continue. Lots of country houses now will make

a second income by hosting these amazing festivals, which are in

many ways the modern day equivalent of a Fête Champetre.

JAMES GRASBY : And there's a very, very real appetite here

for increasingly giving pleasure and fun to visitors.

REBECCA WALLIS: Absolutely. And I don't know if you noticed at

the start when we met with the boats, the boats are all named

after the royal family.

JAMES GRASBY : Of course they are.

REBECCA WALLIS: And so they are boats that, you know people can

enjoy on the lake so it's tying that back in to the history of

the place but also allowing people to enjoy the fun, the

leisure, the pleasure of this garden.

JAMES GRASBY : As I reluctantly head back to my car, ahead of my

journey home, I'm wondering whether I'll get back in time to

squeeze in another episode of Bridgerton before I go to bed.

That's the trouble with box sets. They are moreish.

But having seen Claremont and all its beautiful features and

hearing how they would have been used for the ultimate garden

party. It does make me wish we could travel back in time and

experience a period in history for ourselves, to see what it

was really like, even just for one day.

Now, when I visit wonderful gardens and admire them for the

vistas, the architectural features, the winding footpaths,

those secret corners and shaded walkways, I shall imagine the

setting as the backdrop to a great party, a Buckingham Palace

Garden Party meeting Glastonbury.

And as I'm watching the next episode of Bridgerton, I shall

look past the lavish costumes and the dancing and the scandal

a little and pay more attention to another star of the show, the

setting.

Thanks for joining me for this episode of Back When.

Please do rate, review and follow us on your favourite

podcast app. And why not check out our nature podcast Wild

Tales with Rosie Holdsworth.

And I'll be back soon with another tale from time. See you

then.

HELEN ANTROBUS: This podcast is sponsored by CEWE, Europe's

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