PB_S2E22_CC_0709 ===

Paul: [00:00:00] Holy smokes, dude. Holy smokes. Wow, you guys. Okay. It's the end of season two. Yeah. Uh, there's a lot going on there.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's the end of season two

Paul: and it's such a setup for season three. I mean, it's like, it feels. Here's the thing I would like to talk about. You, you mentioned, we'll get into the Calci index for a second, but you, you, you get, we've, uh, it's been well established that Paul shearing the creator of the show, conceived of it as two seasons.

Paul: Mm-hmm. They break out and then they clear their names, right? [00:01:00] Mm-hmm. That's basically the mm-hmm. So from the moment in Act five, when Michael says Lincoln, we did it. Mm-hmm. Sarah says, you've been exonerated. All charges have been dropped. And he says, Michael, Michael, we did it. And then Kim says, not quite.

Paul: Um, I wonder what is the timeline from the first day of the pilot to that? Like Oh, wow. In how many weeks or

Sarah Wayne Callies: months?

Paul: Yeah. Like how, how much story time do you think? It is a matter of months, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think it's gotta be because

Paul: I mean, there's a ticking clock on the execution and then they break out. I think all of

Sarah Wayne Callies: season one is a couple months and then they break out and that can't be

Paul: right.

Paul: Like how long could the manhunt have gone on a few weeks.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right. Right. I mean there's, it's, it feels like a freight train. [00:02:00] The manhunt, do you know what I mean? There's not like a. Episode 17 starts with, we hadn't had a break in the case in 10 months. You know what I mean? Right. And

Paul: they're, and they've been hiding out and growing long beards like that doesn't happen.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right, right, right. Yeah. Oh, that's really interesting. Please write in if you know the answer to this. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure some script supervisors someplace, you know, at the beginning of season three had that all dialed in. But, um, yes. Yeah. If you know, that's a really interesting question. Yes. How long has it actually been?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um. Okay. Hmm. You know, briefly, uh, about what you just mentioned, that moment that it's all over. Mm. Those moments fascinate me. I remember it, my own high school graduation, going to graduation, going to thing after, and then coming home and like. Ugh. You know, we had like all these lays, 'cause it was Hawaii, so like you took off all the lays and there were flower petals everywhere.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You [00:03:00] took off the like fancy clothes and then it's like, oh, it's just me still in my bathroom brushing my teeth. Same person I was. But there's been this monumental change, like the, the moments when you've just come down. Those moments of realization I think are fascinating.

Paul: Fascinating.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um. It's like, there's like a moment after your wedding too, when it's like, oh, I gotta pee and you pee the same way you peed before you got married.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. But you're married now and it's like, yep. Nothing's changed and everything's changed. I just, those moments are uh, are really interesting, funny. And I like that Paul got to execute his original vision. Yeah, that's what you're saying during the

Paul: rewatch that he got to actually. Wrap it up and then there's a no wait, there's more.

Paul: But like for the time being, we thought that's it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But 'cause he left the show, right? Right. He didn't, he wasn't a part of season three, right? Or four or five and so, or no, I think he was a part [00:04:00] of four, uh, of five. Um, 'cause I remember doing press with him and stuff and talking about some of that stuff, but, um, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Anyway, lots to talk about. Okay. Uh, shall we do our. So many index and stuff.

Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, although I like that you wrote this in this little introduction, lots of cleaning up lots of loose ends, including you cleaning the boat, but that's different. Mm-hmm. The season ends, season two ends with almost everyone arrested or plausibly dead.

Paul: Mm-hmm. Except for Lincoln and Sarah. Possibly re and we'll get into all of that. But you and I are done on the show for a little while. You, I take it in the van, you wander off into the crowd like Hannibal Lecter cra. Is that what

Sarah Wayne Callies: Hannibal Lecter does?

Paul: Remember? He like, yeah, at the very end he, I never saw it.

Paul: Yeah. Oh, you never saw it? Okay. Yeah, he wanders off into the crowd in Mexico or Panama. Well, okay, I think

Sarah Wayne Callies: the last thing we should talk about is whether or not what we knew about coming back to the show or not coming back to the show because [00:05:00] we had very different experiences.

Paul: Yes. Yes. Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um. Okay, so last index of season two.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Sona premiered Monday, April 2nd at 2007. Hmm. Uh, at 8:00 PM against the usual network competition written by show creator Paul, she producing director Kevin Hooks, directed it 8.12 million live viewers tuned in to watched it, um, which actually makes it the lowest rated episode of the whole season.

Paul: That's so strange.

Paul: Oh, but you had a theory about this.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, I mean, I did a little bit of thinking about. What that meant in context. So in 2007, it can mean a number of things. Number one, folks were not used to serialized TV back then. Um, and there was no streaming, so it was really hard to catch up on episodes. And this is very much a show where you have to watch episode every episode in order.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So by the end of a 22 episode season, I think some people were just like, I'm gonna wait for the [00:06:00] DVDs to come out and watch the whole thing. Binging wasn't a thing, but I think they were kind of talking about binging. Um, and of course, by the end of a season, everybody knows that a DVD release isn't. Far behind.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, it could also mean that not everybody who started watching season two loved it anymore and they stopped watching. No, and that's impossible. That's also

Paul: their choice. Uh, what about, I wonder how the, what we called at the time, TiVo thing worked if people were waiting, Tito people waiting to watch it until they had gotten through every one of them.

Paul: I wonder if recording it counted as Oh yeah. Of viewership. Although I would imagine it did. I have no idea.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, I don't think it did. I don't think it, I think the, the 8.12 is like, those are the overnight ratings. That's the Nielsen. I don't think back then it took into account recording the dvr. Like I don't think they had the L sevens, L 30 is the way they do now.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. Could be wrong.

Paul: Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You wanna try and recap? [00:07:00]

Paul: Uh, yes. That is al a lot of words. Okay. To recap. Episode entitled Sona. Big breath. Maho is holding Lincoln hostage until Michael delivers the Christina Rose Deone so he can escape and start over. Michael arrives the boat for the exchange, and Mahome calls the police and reports a murder that hasn't happened.

Paul: Murder, but then Kim then arrives, and then a fight ensues between his man and Maho. The brothers escape. Maho nearly does too, but the police catch him. Search the boat. Finding drugs on board. Planted by Michael Maho is arrested. That's not

Sarah Wayne Callies: actually technically right. I'm sorry. I was, I was reading a recap and writing this before that is re watched it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, no, Mahon does escape. He escape. He, he escapes the warehouse. Anyway, sorry. I'm not cooking. Okay, fair enough. I'll be done.

Paul: But he doesn't escape justice. Mahon is arrested. That's one down. Meanwhile, at Dr. Sarah's trial, Kellerman testifies to her and Lincoln's innocence. She is exonerated and Kellerman is [00:08:00] immediately arrested.

Paul: That's two down elsewhere. Teabag is revealed to have been collaborating with the company. What a scumbag, but they don't care anymore and they say, no, you're gonna stay arrested. Three down back to the brothers. They make their way to another boat that they got, and Michael has bought it from the kid Chaco, and they find Dr.

Paul: Sarah's there. She reveals that Burroughs has been exonerated, thanks to caller's testimony. What relief they're saved. Except Kim appears and is fatally shot by Dr. Sarah as he threatens the brothers. So that's bore down. The police arrive to the murder scene. Michael Lincoln and Sarah take off. Running out of options.

Paul: Michael takes Sarah hostage to sacrifice himself for her freedom. He's arrested for Heartbreaking five down and elsewhere. Beek insists Rey free him before he'll reveal the location of the pregnant Mara Cruz. But Rey gets to the station too late and Beek is led away to the. Prison that's six down and almost finally, Kellerman's vehicle is attacked on his way to jail.

Paul: It looks like they've killed him [00:09:00] until a couple seasons later. And finally, Michael and Mahon arrive in Sona Prison. And finally, finally, finally, the general states that this was exactly what they wanted as he goes into some strange surgical suite. End of season. Yep.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Woo. Ps while you were doing that, I was looking up the actor who played Chaco.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I apologize if I looked distracted, but I'll rewatch. I was like, what has Chaco been up to? So that's what I was doing. We'll get to that in a minute, uh, in please re-air this 'cause I wanna watch it news on April 1st. This was not a joke. Not then. President Donald Trump appeared on WrestleMania 23 for a match that was billed the battle of the billionaires Trump shaved.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Vince McMahon's head after his wrestler defeated McMahon's wrestler and then Stone Cold. Steve Austin executed a stunner on Trump, okay.

Paul: Uh, in massive juvenile literary news.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm.

Paul: [00:10:00] April one was also the release of the First Diary of a Wimpy Kid book, and in long running shows on Fox News on March 30th, back to the Future Ride at Universal Studios, Florida gave its last run.

Paul: To be replaced by the Simpsons ride.

Paul: And now we're gonna get sued. Okay. Uh, we'll be right back to talk about the episode. Let's take a quick break.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Welcome back. We have stuff to talk about. Okay. Um, and we'll, there's a bunch of fan questions after this. There's some good ones. So we'll leave time for that. Uh, I just Googled the actor who played Chaco. Um, are you in LA right now? Yeah, I'm in la. It's super hot. Okay. Um, Chaco was played by an actor named Jonathan Hernandez, who would go on to be in the bucket list.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, Nick Fresno Spanglish and Beverly Hills Cop three. Wow. Comes back in 94. Um, so he has indeed. [00:11:00] Uh, been acting. He is last known credit that I can see is, uh, some voiceover work on the Stinky and Dirty show. Um, but he was so good. I like, yeah, very good, very good. I loved him and found him incredibly charming.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Um. We talked a little bit about poor Pam Mahome and how she's gonna need lots of therapy about like, oh gosh, trusting men again and avoiding love bombing, and the head snapping back and forth like, I would like to see. A like TV movie spinoff called Pam Recovers. That just starts with her in the car, hanging up the phone and calling her mom and being like, mom,

Paul: he did it again.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I need a good therapist. She

Paul: needs a good, good friend who's like girlfriend, I've told you this 19 times. Mm-hmm.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That man

Paul: is. All kinds of crazy

Sarah Wayne Callies: no good.

Paul: He's, he's clearly a junkie and possibly a serial killer.

Sarah Wayne Callies: There are some people, and I say this with seriousness, there are some people that I know that I'm like, you are a candidate for arranged [00:12:00] marriages.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You can no longer be trusted to pick your own partners and the people who love you the most need to start taking a larger hand, because every time you pick your own partners, it is a tro,

Paul: bad pickers. They call that. What's that? They call it, you got a bad picker.

Sarah Wayne Callies: A bad picker.

Paul: Yeah, like a bad, like your picking is off.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Um, anyway, this is just a sort of like RIP Pam Mahomes heart. Yeah. She deserved better.

Paul: Yeah, she really did.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, oh, I'd asked you if you'd been to Baja. And you said you had, 'cause that's where Cabo is.

Paul: It's where Cabo is, but it's also where, um, Los Toto Santos, what's it called?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, Totos, Toto Santos something, I think.

Paul: Yeah. Yeah. So

Sarah Wayne Callies: you've been,

Paul: yeah, it's amazing. It's so close to here. Is it? Yeah, it's great. I mean, the problem with Do you drive down? No. Okay. The problem with Baja, uh, is you can't swim. Why in the ocean? Because it's incredibly dangerous. Wait, why rocks? [00:13:00] And, um, I. Uh, undertow. It's just like, it's never, ever, ever safe.

Paul: Oh, wow. And everyone's like, oh, it'll be okay. And you're like, no. Like when we were in Toto Santos, I'm looking it up. I think that's exactly where we were, like, uh, me and my daughter. Because

Sarah Wayne Callies: there's the inland side and then there's the Pacific side, right?

Paul: Yes. Um, it, I went in one day with my daughter and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna be we.

Paul: Okay. And like five feet in, you're like, oh, I'm gonna die. I gotta get outta here. Really? Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Like that horrible surf because I've a lot of surf. Horrible feeling of like, that makes more sense. Yeah. Yes. Lacent. Yeah. Huh. Beautiful. Wait, no. All right. I'm wrong. All right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm asking because all of Canada goes to Mexico for Christmas.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Really, and I'm actually thinking this year, like maybe this is the year we go to, we go to, maybe we should Mexico,

Paul: maybe we should cut this 'cause it's super boring.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Sorry. Okay. I'm moving on. No, I'm,

Paul: I'm I, I, I don't think it's Toto [00:14:00] Santos. I think I totally made that up. Now it's bugging me though.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Maybe you were on the other side.

Paul: No, we went right up. Oh, it is to de Santos. I'm sorry. I'm right. I'm right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Fair enough.

Paul: All

Sarah Wayne Callies: right,

Paul: Luke, maybe cut all that out. I don't know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't know. We'll see.

Paul: Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um,

Paul: okay, so

Sarah Wayne Callies: what do I have here? I wrote the, do you wanna talk

Paul: about what you were told about the end of season two and coming back for season three?

Paul: Because.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, well before we do, um, we were talking about the crack shot thing, and I can't remember if we talked about this on another episode, but when we were shooting, when we were filming Sarah, shooting Kim, I remember begging Kevin Hooks. I was like, please don't make it look like I can drop this guy with one shot, because I don't know that Sarah's that familiar with firearms.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And it just, you know, we got the handshake thing in there. But like, I was like, I, I really think we need to. [00:15:00] And he was like, you know the way, the way they do? They were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem, no problem, no problem. Then of course it airs and it's like, bang. And what I had hoped for on the day was like, bang, bang, and then bang.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It gets him. But of course that first bang would turn his head around and he would probably shoot her, even if it's bang. I shot him in the chest and there's like four other shots that miss. It was one of those like actor things. I was super hung up on On the day. Yeah. And was really like ticked about, not at anybody, but just like, ah, when it aired I was like, that's really not what I was hoping would happen.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And now I'm like, yeah, it doesn't bother me at all if I didn't remember I. Um, do,

Paul: do you think because you're just become like a cynical monster, or do you think that it, it doesn't Probably

Sarah Wayne Callies: Cynical Monster probably about sums it up. Do, do you think

Paul: that No. But you think like, as a, as a director, producer, or do you think like, it [00:16:00] doesn't, like the very similitude of that?

Paul: Like, like you give it a pass in the world of prison break, it's like, you gotta know what show you're on. Like, it's, it's not about.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You know, I think, I think that's a smart way. I know Wentworth, when he bumped up against things like that, he'd be like, we're shooting a graphic novel.

Paul: We're shooting a graphic novel.

Paul: Right? This is

Sarah Wayne Callies: not a slice of life. This is not a link later like. You know? Yeah. Real, real, real. I think if I were directing it and we had the time, because it's a way harder stunt, I would say to our stunt team, how about we squib him in like three places, and the first one is like a shoulder shot, which does absolutely nothing but spins him around.

Sarah Wayne Callies: The second one is the back of the leg, and then the third one is a kill shot, and maybe it's super messy. You know what I mean? Like I,

Paul: I, I, yes, although I would say, but. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I would, I would've a different pitch. Okay. But I think shooting him that many times, I don't even think the network would like that.

Paul: It's too violent. [00:17:00] Think it's too violent, even though you're killing the guy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Paul: My, my thing would be. For, I don't know, very military. Not that I've ever been in that situation, and I certainly hope never to be. Last time I shot a guy on a boat, right, is that you would shoot as many times as you could, even before you saw if it hit him or not.

Paul: Mm-hmm. That would be bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, until he was down.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right. And then it's clip, clip, clip, clip, clip. There's nothing left. Correct. And so like shaking? Yeah.

Paul: The, the, the, the pitch I would make is there's a whole bunch of shots, but only one of them hits him. But I guess then mm-hmm.

Paul: You have to see all that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Or do you just need the audio? But I mean, again, it's those things that to me it's the difference between acting and directing. Acting is telling one person's story in all the detail. Yeah. And directing is seeing the bigger picture and Yeah. You know, hooks in the moment was like, I, my take on it is hooks was like, I'm gonna yes [00:18:00] man her to avoid the 45 minute conversation about how it's really not that big a deal and she can just take a deep breath and, but it's

Paul: also,

Sarah Wayne Callies: you know, a lot of

Paul: times.

Paul: That's our job as actors and a lot of times that stuff mm-hmm. Is good and appreciated. It makes the show better. Like, you know, it's totally, it's a pick your battles sometimes. Yes. No, you know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Totally. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, I have one more question for you. Yeah. I asked you if you ever Googled your, if you ever said to somebody Googled me.

Paul: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Tell me your story.

Paul: Um, I was buying a, um. And I, I, I, I was buying a computer at the Apple store years ago. Mm-hmm. And it was when, I don't even know if they still have this, it was an industry discount. And if you were working for a studio. They would give you, it was like significant. It was like 15% or something.

Paul: Really? Yeah. And I was like, well, I, I am working for a studio. And they were like, well, what, what do you do? And I was like, I'm an actor. And they're like, [00:19:00] me? Are you?

Paul: Oh my God, that's such a funny, it might've been prison Break by Practice. And I was like, are you? And I was like, you know, yeah. Idea. And they were like, what's your name? And they like Googled me like, oh, you on that show? Okay. And they gave me, I got were they

Sarah Wayne Callies: like, how do you spell Alside? They're like, no, it's ST.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No. Pretty

Paul: much. Yes.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um,

Paul: um, so yeah, the one time I've ever, that's

Sarah Wayne Callies: the time. The one time I did, it was actually not that long ago where I had a one of those ridiculous moments trying to board a plane. Oh no. Where the people who booked my ticket booked Sarah as a first name. Yeah. And Wayne Calley's as a double barreled last name instead of making Wayne my middle name.

Sarah Wayne Callies: The guy behind the Air Canada counter was so like, he got that look on his face the way little Napoleon do when they're like, Ooh, I get that. Got you. And I was like, can we go back to the, the premise of this, isn't it? To make sure that I am who I say I [00:20:00] am. I was like, you can see the photo on my passport.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You can see it's me. And he goes, I don't know who you are. And I was like, you could Google me. That'll tell you who I am, and it'll tell you that my name and, you know, he just, and PS he did not let me board. It was a flight to Europe. So I had to call work and be like, you guys are gonna have to buy me another flight to Europe.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And they were like, take a picture. They're like, take a picture of this fucking guy because we wanna know who the, you know, and like technically, of course, yes, technically he's correct. But in any human world, it's like there's a, uh, you just go, Hey man, somebody made a mistake, blah, blah, blah. Um, obviously I didn't book the ticket myself, but it was, that was the, that was I think the one and only time.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I was like, if you Google me, you will see that I am the person that I say I am and you can save.

Paul: So crazy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: My work, the last minute ticket, which turned out to be like thousands of dollars, thousands of dollars, sure. No bons anyway, um, is a

Paul: Nate Bartzi joke that I'm gonna find and send you because it's all about that and it's, I love

Sarah Wayne Callies: Nate Zi.

Paul: [00:21:00] Oh, it's incredible. It's this exact situation.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Really?

Paul: Mm-hmm.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Nate Bartzi. Nate Bartzi. Nate

Paul: Bartzi. Nate Bartzi. Um, okay. Okay. Come on.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So you, you left the show because you booked another show.

Paul: No. No, no. Um, they, but okay, we're gonna keep having, we're gonna keep having deja vu because we had these conversations.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We already had this conversation. I know. I'm like, did we talk about this? Oh, we did, but we, we did, but it's gone. Oh. This is where we should let people know that we recorded this episode and the rewatch once already, and then the files were totally corrupted. So we're doing it again. So we have deja vu, and this was like two months ago.

Paul: Ah. So what happened was they were very, uh, upfront with me about. A prison break. That is the powers that be, uh, that they were killing me off. I don't remember. Somewhere like halfway through the season, they were like, yeah, we're not, he's gonna be done by the end of season two. Which allowed And did they

Sarah Wayne Callies: say killing you off?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Like the idea [00:22:00] was that you were dying in that van or were there like way we're done with you as an

Paul: actor, but at the time it was we're killing you. It time we were killing you off? Yeah. Okay. And, and, uh. Yeah, he dies and, um, which allowed me to have a pilot season, which allowed me to get private practice,

Sarah Wayne Callies: which was six years.

Paul: Six years.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's amazing. Is that the longest you've ever been on a show?

Paul: Yes. That's amazing. As long as on show, as long as I've ever done anything. Um,

Sarah Wayne Callies: well you've, you've been a father for long. That's

Paul: true. That's true. 15 years. Yeah. Um, and so the, that was, that was all just, there was so much crazy serendipity involved in that whole thing.

Paul: I was off. Had to, I, I was off for an episode. I happened to be back in la um, long, you know, and, but the, the bottom line in terms of the prison break of it all was, they were very, uh, good to me in being communicative. Mm-hmm. Because the last thing you want is, so [00:23:00] by the time that we shot episode 22 by the, I, I had already, I knew I was on another show.

Paul: I, I knew I was done. Um, had you

Sarah Wayne Callies: shot the pilot yet for private practice? No, it was, was all

Paul: after. It was after this. And was it a straight

Sarah Wayne Callies: to series order because it was kind of a spinoff?

Paul: It was, it was embedded in a Grey's Anatomy episode.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay.

Paul: Right. So it was like a special two series, which at the time was like one

Sarah Wayne Callies: of the other biggest shows on television, Grey's Anatomy.

Paul: Um, and it wasn't a hundred percent of a pickup, but we kind of knew it would've been. It was going to be, yeah. Yeah. Or we were told That's awesome. Which you, you know, you never know. Um, the funny. I told you this before, but I'll tell you again. Um, we're just gonna, I've already forgotten it. I don't

Sarah Wayne Callies: really listen to you, so that's fine.

Paul: Is that, that last day I was all like, oh my God, that's my last day. And I was like writing people notes and I bought, you know, people end of, you know, rap presents to makeup wrap gifts and. You know, I made a lot of friends over [00:24:00] two years and dah, dah, dah, dah. And I was like, we've shot that. It was like, I think one o'clock, two o'clock.

Paul: And I was like, okay. And I was like, we're done. And they were like, that's a se series wrap. Um, Paul, I got the, I got the applause. Mm-hmm. And I was like, okay, everybody, uh, you know, we're gonna go out tonight and have drinks. And everybody was kinda like, yeah, we gotta, we got another shot and, uh, 6:00 AM call tomorrow and we got 6:00 AM call, dude.

Paul: So, you know, let us know when you're back. And I was like,

Sarah Wayne Callies: oh. Okay. It is amazing speaking. Like we were talking at the beginning of this, the moment after something big happens, like first of all, you have that moment if you know you're leaving a show, you've got the clap out, you've got the goodbyes with everybody, you've got the hugs and the whatever, and then you go back to your trailer and you're like, okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yep. Still the person I was an hour ago when I had a job.

Paul: I think the, I think one of the hard things, or one of the hard's, not necessarily the right word, but um. Things that make you feel out of sync is when, like, it's not the last day of shooting. Mm-hmm. [00:25:00] Not everybody's wrapping up the other actors. It's not the last day of school.

Paul: Yeah. It's, you're just not coming back. It's, you're just not coming back.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Paul: And so there's not a big communal goodbye. It's just like, goodbye. Uh, well, and

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah. At least you're going to a job, you know, and you're excited about sometimes. Oh. I mean, sometimes it can feel really alienating where it's like, oh my God, I'm leaving this home.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm leaving people in it. And I'm moving on. That's a, that can feel

Paul: scary.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It can be really intense. Yeah, for sure.

Paul: Um, um, can we talk about the courtroom, about your lying in the courtroom when you're like, I literally dunno what to say to you right now.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I literally don't know what to say to you right now.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Do you

Paul: think that that was, that sounds like a

Sarah Wayne Callies: Shonda line actually.

Paul: Script. Totally. Do you think it was scripted? It can, yes. I think it's just an amazing delivery.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You're right. There's another way to, there is another way to deliver that. But I delivered it like it was a genre show. [00:26:00] No, you didn't

Paul: Like, I, it's very in character. Talk to about and what I, I, I like also, there's something intimate about it between the two of them. It's something like, I love that she doesn't say thank you.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, because do you thank the guy who tried to kill you? Well, also,

Paul: but you're also not like, screw you. Like it's somewhere I think you literally don't know what to say. Right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and I, I actually wonder if that's a moment in the writer's room where they're like, what, what do we

Paul: like, what is she supposed to say?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Is she grateful? Does she hate him? Does she spit in his face? Does she shake his hand? Like I can imagine our writers spitballing. Yeah. 30 versions. And Paul being like, do you know what I'm gonna say? I literally don't. I say, I literally don't know what to say to you right now. 'cause we don't, they'll be like, call will figure out a way to make that work.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You know, what it's like. Um, and it does also make me think of that whole Clint Eastwood thing that he used to say that when you get to the, the. The peak of an emotional arc for a character. Think of a blank [00:27:00] piece of paper and the audience will map onto you. Oh yeah. How they're feeling like, like don't push it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. You know what I mean? Don't over, don't overdo it. We get it. It's a huge fucking moment. Yeah. We've shot it through two fans. We've had resolves. We get it. Although what is interesting mm-hmm. Is. If we'd gotten to this point mid-season, that trial could have been an entire standalone episode. Like if they had needed a bottle episode, the trial of Paul Kellerman and or of, of Sarah Retti and Paul coming in and saying this, and the, you know, the, the DA being like, I'm sorry.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So you're saying what? Where's the proof? Well, right,

Paul: right, right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I actually wrote it down on a piece of paper because it's the safest thing like. I understand the reason that they did it the way they did it. I'm not criticizing, but it is interesting. There could be an enormous thing that's an arc for both of them.

Sarah Wayne Callies: [00:28:00] Mm-hmm. Where there's even a scene, you know, where he's asked something and he goes, for what it's worth? I didn't wanna do it. Mm. If that means anything, no. Politic doesn't fucking mean it doesn't mean anything. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There there could have been, and again, I'm not saying there should have been, but having rewatched it twice because we lost the original Mm.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I was like, oh, as a fan of the show, but also as the character, there's so many moments between Sarah and Paul that could have been interesting in there, had. Had there been the time? Mm. But there wasn't, because you know, you've got so much to cover in the show. Um, and I said it on the rewatch, but the, the way they jump cut out

Paul: on the shooting of

Sarah Wayne Callies: your execution.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. That turned out not to be a real execution, but is really, really interesting.

Paul: So tell me what you knew about Sarah's end of [00:29:00] season two and season three.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, certainly a big contrast is there was no, okay, guys, that's a series wrap on Sarah. Clap, clap, clap. Congratulations. Hugs. It was all you know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Good luck with the baby. We'll see you when you're back from mat leave. Like it was a very, you know, I obviously hadn't been picked up on paper. Right. Right, but there was no talk of,

Sarah Wayne Callies: Hey, we don't know if the character's coming back, or, you know, I, they were leaving it open-ended with me vanishing into the street because right. My baby was due July 14th. That was the due date. And we were coming back to film around July 4th because we always started, you know, around mid summer. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: 4th of July in the States. And so there [00:30:00] was a little bit of a like, well, what's the maternity leave gonna look like? When are you coming back? How do we account for this? Um, but not one person was like, Hey, FYI, we don't know if you're coming back and. I was even asked when I was seven months pregnant to go do a mini press tour in London and in Madrid.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm-hmm. To do press over there because the rest of the cast wasn't available. And they're like, we want you to go rep the show. And I had to get permission from my midwife to travel that late. Sure. And we like worked it so that it was the last, it was kind of the last window and my husband went with me in case anything got weird.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, and. We can get into this in a season three conversation. But up through all of that, [00:31:00] everything from Fox and 20th was when we go back to shoot season three. When we go back, what are you doing next season? What's the, this, you know, like that was all the messaging and all the conversations. Um, and then obviously there was a hard pivot, uh, which.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You know, totally took me by surprise.

Paul: It did. I don't really, I don't know this story. Oh yeah. So you can tell it as much or little as you want. Uh, when we get back. When we come back to it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. I think it's kind of a season three conversation. Yeah. But I definitely left season two with the implicit understanding from everybody.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It was all. We'll see you next season. Yeah. Good luck with the baby. We'll see you next season. Wow. Um. But you know, TV changes really quickly. Yes, it does. And, uh, um, um, you wanna take a break and answer a few fan questions?

Paul: Yeah. I just wanna tell one quick funny story. Oh, please. [00:32:00] We shot the scene in the courtroom, you and I.

Paul: Mm-hmm. And then that night I met some friends for a, for a drink and, uh, in this very crowded bar near my apartment in Dallas. And, uh, this woman came up to me and said, oh my God, I was, I was background in, in the courtroom today. Oh, no way. And I said, oh, no way. That's great. And she said, yeah, your entrance was hilarious.

Paul: And I was like, what? Huh? She was like, it was so funny. Sure. Hope not. And I was like, oh, oh, oh no. Oh no. Oh no. That's terrible. Right? Lemme call Kevin Hooks. What? What happened? I don't know what I don't know. It was so baffling, I think about it more often than I should about like what is the disconnect there?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Your entrance was so hilarious. I have not one [00:33:00] memory of that, although, I wonder, like, is it possible that you just for shits and giggles, did like a Kramer entrance on a rehearsal?

Paul: No. Oh, maybe yes, but I don't recall. But I don't, I remember being baffled at the time. Um, all right. That's amazing. Let's take a, uh, quick break and get to some, uh, fan questions.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Let's get to some fan questions. All

Paul: right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, we are back. Let's see. Okay, here's a few questions. Let's see. We've got some from Instagram. Um, here's one for you. Paul.

Paul: Yes.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't know how to pronounce this. A LAA in Hawaiian. That would be all Laa, but I don't know. Uh, Aho. Okay. Asks, by the end of the season, many characters face unexpected betrayals.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm. What do you think is the biggest betrayal of the season and how did it impact the overall narrative of the show? I'm [00:34:00] tempted to say the betrayal of Pam Mahome, but I don't know that that fully counts as the biggest. Right. Because we've gotta go back to tweener Haywire. Oh gosh. Johny. Johny. I know it's been, when I think back.

Sarah Wayne Callies: To how this season started with them on the tarmac. It feels like that was 10 years ago. It does. Um, um,

Paul: the mahome, I guess everyone sees it coming, but the mahome betrayal of the, I'm gonna make a deal with you guys. Actually No, I'm not. Is pretty bad. Yeah. Um,

Sarah Wayne Callies: the Niko one, I remember reading in the script and I did not see coming.

Paul: Which one?

Sarah Wayne Callies: When she, uh, grabs the gun, hugs Lincoln grabs the gun Oh. And tries to hold them up. Oh yeah. And then he saw it coming. Um, I don't know that it has a huge impact on the rest of the season, except that I [00:35:00] think it does tell the brothers that, like even the few people who you may think are on your side.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I am gonna, I betray you.

Paul: I'm gonna say Carolyn Reynolds. Cutting kellerman Uh oh. Cutting kellerman off is a pretty big one. I know that's myopic of my part on my part, but

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, no, no, no, no. It's pretty

Paul: bad. And also, um,

Sarah Wayne Callies: it definitely propels a huge amount of action that affects, I mean, if she doesn't do that, you don't exonerate anybody.

Paul: Yeah. Um, now Bruce did not try to kill you, right? It was the other It was,

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah. I thought he did right and then I was wrong. Um,

Paul: it was the company, correct?

Sarah Wayne Callies: It was the company. That's the subtitle of season two. Season two. It was the company. It was the company, yeah. Um.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, prison Break. Asked when Sarah was shooting her final scenes of the of the season, did she [00:36:00] know about the plan for season three? Oh, this was something else. Uh, we kind of just answered that, but this was something else that we talked about. I think last, when we did the first version of this is that we had a long conversation about Michael sacrificing himself for Sarah Uhhuh because I think, I think there was a draft.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I. Where Michael kind of said like, here's the plan. I'm gonna take the fall. I'm gonna protect you. I'm gonna make it. Okay. And I remember at some point in reaction to, I think that, but maybe it was just a pitch just going, Hey, if Sarah knows what he's gonna do, she will never go along with it.

Paul: Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And so really consciously working on drafts so that he's reassuring her. And making sure that she's a wreck emotionally overtaking a man's life so that she doesn't see the wheels turning and go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, [00:37:00] no, no, you're not doing this. Um, that's a great note. Important.

Paul: Yeah, that's great.

Paul: Because she wouldn't, so it's better, it's a better reveal, frankly. 'cause it's a surprise. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I, I agree with you. And I also, I thought, um, just as a side note, that work. You guys were did together and you in particular in the I Kill the Man thing that's so hard to play. Ugh. Those kinds of things are so hard to play and it sounds so beautifully.

Paul: It's not a side of Sarah, or it's not a, an an emotional color we've seen from Sarah before. We're just really was very That's interesting. I find it very effective.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thanks. I, Kevin, I think also did something lovely, which is he played the whole thing in a two shot. Yeah. So you're with both of them in that moment?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. Michael, as his brain is going and Sarah, she's losing her shit rather than like,

Paul: yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Over, over, over, over. Cutting. Like that's, that's something that probably is easier for a producing director to get away with that kind of like, no guys, we're not gonna do the [00:38:00] coverage on this. We're just gonna let it live right here.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I wonder if they did it.

Paul: I wonder if they did the coverage you, do you remember if they did the coverage, you didn't use it? Or if it was, I don't. Yeah. Um, I would also, I'll also say, uh uh. Uh, wait, it went right outta my head. I forgot.

Paul: I forgot.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's okay. Um, oh, this is sort of, okay, so what we just talked about was the answer to Caina 1920 six's question. Um,

Paul: I remembered though.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. What,

Paul: sorry. Uh, we said it during the rewatch, but, um, this is the first time that Michael and Sarah say, I love you. I.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think it

Paul: is. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Because they're so broken.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I mean, of course. Like, and, and

Paul: Sarah said, I said, oh my God. Oh my gosh. They said, I love you. And Sarah said, yes. This is what it took for them to be that emotionally vulnerable with one another. Yeah. She had to kill a man, and they have to be surrounded by the Panama [00:39:00] Police

Sarah Wayne Callies: believing they're both each one believing, I'm gonna go to prison for this and never see you again.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right. Like, yep. Yeah.

Paul: Yeah. I know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's very, uh, it's very dramatic.

Paul: Yeah. Um, but also beautifully done. Very moving.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thank you. Um, let's see. Oh, this is interesting. At Alicia, L-I-S-N-Y-J, since you both haven't watched season three, can we get some predictions of what you think is gonna happen next? Ooh.

Paul: Golly, we might have to save that for the beginning of season three

Sarah Wayne Callies: Predictions.

Paul: Yeah, we, we should save that for the beginning of the season three podcast. Fair? No,

Sarah Wayne Callies: fair. Totally fair. Um, I think, I think Be's gonna have a very hard time and I think Maho iss gonna have to do some detoxing. I'm gonna start with that.

Paul: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, I did not have predictions that involved a head in a box, but we'll get into that later.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh golly. Um. [00:40:00] Let's see. Oh, some of these I answered on the, on the, uh, the live thing on the We did.

Paul: Um,

Paul: I like this question from Marni 16. Paul, at the time, did you think Kelman was really dead or did you believe it was staged and he would be back later? I oh yeah. Believed he was dead. I don't know if it was TV worked differently or my brain worked differently, but I never even thought, oh, he didn't see the body.

Paul: Of course he could come until it became Yeah, I didn't either. I, I, I just think we weren't quite used to that bait and switch yet, like how many bait and switch TV shows, um, and movies have Yeah. Subsequently. So I, I was, I, maybe I was naive, but I was like, oh, I guess that's it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, I mean, I. I think we, including the writers at the time, were like, Kellerman is genuinely dead.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. And they shot it in a way [00:41:00] that was so classy and so like, it felt like it was honoring the character because also like, what are we gonna do? Like show him being riddled by bullet, like that feels cheap. It feels disrespectful in some way. Um. Yeah. Following on a similar vein, Ingrid SJ wanted to know for Paul, how would you explain Kellerman's train of thought when he made the decision to do the right thing and testify in Sarah's favor and exonerate her and Lincoln from all charges?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Was it his lost relationship with his sister? Yes. That led him to that. And what was it like to prepare? I think

Paul: that it was, um, that moment. I think that's exactly right. I think it was that he, when uh, he realizes how crazy the company has gotten and how he's been, how compromised, uh, Reynolds has been, he's gonna go and kill her.

Paul: That gets foiled. He then is going [00:42:00] to kill himself. And that gets foiled. And the lesson I think he learned from his sister, uh, when she comes to see him in the hotel room, is it's never too late to try to do the right thing. And so I think that totally motivates that, that, that you've tried, you know, you've screwed a whole bunch of things up.

Paul: Mm-hmm. You thought you were gonna make it right. You couldn't make it right. Um, and instead of ending, you know, yourself, try to try one more time to make it right, you know, maybe in a different way than with a gun. Um, so I think that, that, I think that he absolutely is, is, is inspired by what his sister has said to him.

Paul: And that, and preparing for it was easy because it felt really like a relief. It's like he, the guy is told, the guy's [00:43:00] always bullshitting. He's always got a ulterior motive at work, and here he literally just has to go and say, this is what I did. And I'm not trying to protect myself or anybody else at this moment, which is.

Paul: His MO all the time. And so I think that there's a relief in it. Um, and it, it did actually at the time, I remember feeling kind of cathartic to do.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's interesting that that piece when you finally come clean Yeah. You see it in your kids. Yeah. When they've been, no, I didn't do it. I didn't do Okay.

Paul: Uhhuh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, and also, you know, what you just said about your sister makes me think about one of the phrases. That was built into the prison yard.

Paul: Oh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: At Fox River, which is, it's not too late to mend. It's never too late to mend. Oh. Um, that's an interesting kind of

Paul: [00:44:00] Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: I like that. The idea that it's not, it's never too late to be redeemed.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Paul: Um, and also I think, you know, whether it's, I mean, Kellerman says what I'm gonna tell you is probably gonna get me killed, but. At that point, I think especially in terms of Sarah, he, he, he feels like, well, here is an innocent bystander that I tried to kill, who doesn't deserve what's happening to her right now?

Paul: Mm-hmm. So it's not just about even redeeming his own conscience. It's about mm-hmm. Um, really doing, doing right by somebody in a concrete way.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm-hmm. I can do something right at the door.

Paul: That's right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, for sure. That's right. Can't save Danny.

Paul: Right, exactly.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Can save,

Paul: can't save

Sarah Wayne Callies: Sarah, potentially. Sarah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Um, this one interested me. Cina asked, this is, I think on our discord, I feel Michael and Sarah's unconditional love for each other's [00:45:00] shown. Very nuanced and restrained. It's intriguing and touching last no matter what through all the massive obstacles they face. Would it perhaps be possible to do a separate episode about this relationship as the podcast series progresses?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Probably not, but let's talk about it now. Why are they drawn to each other in such a way? How does this romance develop and evolve and what are perhaps the dark sides of this love? I mean that I think the dark side of it is interesting and we never.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Think we've, I don't think the show is about that, really. Mm-hmm. Um, Michael and Lincoln sometimes touch on like, is this toxic? Is this like codependency? I mean, what I think what's interesting is when people are drawn to each other who are very broken, there's a question of. What does it [00:46:00] mean to heal?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Does it threaten the relationship to heal, or does the relationship nurture the healing? And I, I think what we see in season, especially kind of later in season four and five, is that they actually are able to be healing for one another. Almost through humor because that's such a big, like there's this wonderful line in season four where they're like sitting on the dock outside the warehouse and it's just like, I always thought, you know, I can't remember, but it's like something about sailing into the sunset and I would, you know, the ocean being my backyard.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And he goes, the ocean is your backyard. And it's just like we're totally hooped, but it's okay. We're together. There's a much darker version of this relationship between the two of them that gets very unhealthy and very codependent. And, um, I'm grateful [00:47:00] that the writers didn't do that. I'm, I'm grateful that it didn't kind of turn into a, that, that having kept her in the dark for all of season one.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Having so much, do you wanna come? Is this good for you? Is this bad for you? In season two, by season four, there's really a sense of, I'm gonna bring you, I'm gonna read you into this with me. We will be fully in this together. Um, and is that toxic or not

Paul: toxic?

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, I think it's not toxic. I think it's, I think it's an understanding that it's the secrets and the lies that really create the big problems.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, and they give each other space to be broken, which I think is helpful. Um, do you think we have time for one more question? Yes. What do you think? Ingrid asked a question about the crane tattoo, but I answered that in my a MA. [00:48:00] Okay. We kind of did that. Um, actually we answered a lot of these. Oh, Ray, I remember this one.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I read this and I thought this was interesting. I did not take it this way, but this is 20 years ago. Rachel Fios, 21. Okay. This may come off as bit of. As a bit of a rant, but after a badass arc in the season, resisting torture and ironing a guy. I kind of hate that when we discover Sarah on the boat, she's cleaning and the first thing she does after hugging Michael, if I remember correctly, is getting Lincoln a beer.

Sarah Wayne Callies: My question is, does it frustrate the both of you as well, or is it just me? What do you think, Paul? Uh.

Paul: The beer thing did. I'll get you a drink. Thing didn't bother me because I think it was time for the brothers to have a moment together.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Dramaturgically. Sarah's gotta get outta there. Get him. She got out. She gotta get outta there.

Paul: Yeah. Yeah. [00:49:00] Uh, the cleaning, cleaning the book thing is a little funny to me.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I have a feeling the writers needed Sarah to come out from the inside of the boat and. Emerge.

Paul: Yeah. I can also see, sorry, go ahead. I interrupted.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, I, I would be willing to bet that the art of the writers were like, come out of the boat and you're like, stand there. And I'm like, what am I doing? And they'd be like, I don't know what the fuck do you wanna be doing?

Sarah Wayne Callies: But I don't gimme a rag. I'll be cleaning the boat. Like I have a feeling this smells like something. That was after me going just, yeah, gimme something to do on the day. I said, I don't think it was in the script.

Paul: I don't even think the was in the script.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't think it was in the script. No. And

Paul: I bet, I bet it was like Kevin was like, so he says she's awfully pretty.

Paul: And he says, yeah, it's a good boat. He says, I don't mean the boat. And then we look up and Sarah merges and you'd be like, well, why am I merging? Doing [00:50:00] what? Yeah. What am I doing? How do I know? How do I know they've arrived? Uh, 'cause you gotta, you know, you gotta air the rag. Uh, I dunno. What do we have?

Sarah Wayne Callies: A hundred percent.

Sarah Wayne Callies: A hundred percent. So yes. Rachel, I appreciate your, um, feminist eyes on this, but I think, I think the cleaning the boat was probably me going, I don't wanna just stand there for no reason. And the getting a beer, actually, I think the getting a beer is not just dramaturgical, but I think it's also Sarah going Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: They, they need a money. That's what I mean. Let me go. Yeah,

Paul: that's what I mean. I mean, that seems organic and so percent it doesn't mean it's not kind of like. From a feminist standpoint, like, eh, we're gonna clean the vote. Even if that is why we did it. You did it. That's it just goes to show you how sometimes when you're like searching around for stuff to do, you gotta pick something.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Gotta pick something. But also I think there's something to be said for you can both. [00:51:00] Be a badass who irons a guy and saves herself. Yes. And still get on a boat and go, I, I gotta, I don't wanna sit on this. I'm gonna wipe this down. Like I think it's okay to, I think it's okay to

Paul: do both. Be both. Be all the things.

Sarah Wayne Callies: To be all the things. To be all the things I do. Cook and clean and garden

Paul: and iron. Iron, iron. But in a different way. No, I don't. Iron. Iron. Humans. No men. I do not iron. You. Iron Men in the chest

Sarah Wayne Callies: only. If they're wrinkled. Okay. Ah. Um, guys, it's the end of the season. Wow. Uh,

Paul: crazy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's the end of the season.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And if I think about where the season started, that's bonkers thanks to everybody, especially to our discord community. Mm-hmm. I love the way you guys take care of each other and form community and are there for each other. Uh, I was at a convention in Europe a couple of weeks ago and. I met a bunch of you [00:52:00] guys who had met on Discord and check in with each other every single day, and then met up together in Germany from like three or four different countries.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So I think that's freaking beautiful. Do more of that. Um, and it's been really lovely reconnecting with like Cynthia and Camille, um, and a bunch of the, like, it's Billy. Yeah. Reconnecting with the cast has been,

Paul: yeah, really nice,

Sarah Wayne Callies: really lovely. Um, it was a great job with some really wonderful people. Mm-hmm.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We're lucky to be able to do it.

Paul: Mm-hmm. And, and I feel lucky to be able to revisit it with you. Very fun.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, some of my favorite parts of the entire season were. The stuff that we did together from all the way from Lance, um, Lance, I love

Paul: Lance so long ago.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Actually, you know what, that betrayal question from [00:53:00] Sarah's perspective, that's the biggest betrayal of the question.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That was, that was a big one. Violating the sacred trust that straight women have with gay men. Yeah. And, and, and a manipulating it into trying to kill me. And, and na and na. Not a narcotic and no abuser. And not anonymous. Yeah. Um, yeah. Okay. Uh, so yeah. Thank you. Be good to each other.

Paul: Yeah. Thank you for taking this ride with us.

Paul: As we say, world

Sarah Wayne Callies: credits,

Paul: uh, prison breaking with Sarah and Paul's been a caliber studio production.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Your hosts have been inmates, Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul Adelstein.

Paul: Our prison warden is producer Ben Haber.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Cutting us up in the yard is editor Luke Lucian Singer.

Paul: The front man of our jailhouse rock band is me Paul Edelstein, who made our music?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Our Prison Yard Tattoo artist logo and brand designer is John Nunzio and Little Big Brands. You can check 'em out at www.littlebigbrands.com.

Paul: John Nunzio. John Nunzio.

Sarah Wayne Callies: John Nunzio. John Nunzio.

Paul: Follow the [00:54:00] show on YouTube and Instagram at Prison Break Podcast. Email us at pb podcast@caliberstudio.com.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Join the watch Party and our Discord community through the Patreon link in the show notes.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Wherever you're listening right now or watching

Paul: prison Breaking with Sarah Paul has been at Caliber Studio Productions. Thank you so much for listening.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thank you so much for listening and

Paul: watching

Sarah Wayne Callies: that too.

Paul: Bye.