Podcast_CPG_07_Final-1 ===

[00:00:00] Hugh Brandt: This is the Intersection Faith Work and Life podcast hosted by Bob Varney and Hugh Brandt. The intersection is committed to helping people see that discipleship means we live by faith in God, in all arenas of our lives all the time. If you wanna hear more discipleship stories of people living by faith in every sphere of their lives, please invite others to listen to the Intersection Podcast.

[00:00:59] Hugh Brandt: Welcome [00:01:00] and thanks for listening today to learn how Shereen Shaker has learned how to integrate faith into her daily work. Shereen is Vice President for Management and Operations at the American University in Cairo, Egypt. Her responsibilities include overseeing campus buildings and operations. After graduating with a major in mechanical engineering and a minor in computer science from the American University, she advanced to a successful career with Procter and Gamble, Alcatel Lucent and IBM in the field of global business services, real estate and facilities management.

[00:01:37] Hugh Brandt: She has led construction fit out projects across Europe, the Middle East and Africa. She has led the Y two. K transition, business continuity and crisis management for Proctor and Gamble regionally. And she has led the COVID-19 task force for the American University for Operations. She holds an executive master's degree in real estate [00:02:00] and construction Management from Denver University, and today I have the privilege to interview Shereen Shereen.

[00:02:08] Hugh Brandt: Welcome. ~So glad you're with Bob and I today. ~

[00:02:08] Shereen Shaker: ~Thank you. Hug. ~Thank you.

[00:02:09] Hugh Brandt: Nice to see

[00:02:10] Bob Varney: you again. ~Shereen.~

[00:02:10] Hugh Brandt: Nice to see you. ~Thanks. Always Nice.~

[00:02:11] Bob Varney: She, ~and ~thank you for the gift ~that you, ~that you left here as you came through Northern Virginia.

[00:02:15] Shereen Shaker: Oh, you're ~more than ~welcome.

[00:02:17] Hugh Brandt: ~Shereen. Tell us, ~tell us who are you and then tell us what do you do?

[00:02:22] Shereen Shaker: Okay, so, ~uh, ~I'm Sharin Sheer. I live in, ~uh, ~Cairo, Egypt. I've been, ~uh, ~born and raised there for the majority of my life. I lived a few places abroad, but. Primarily grew up in Egypt. ~Um, and I, um, ~I have a degree in mechanical engineering, ~um, um, ~where I work now ~in, uh, in, ~at the American University, ~uh, ~in Cairo, as well as Vice President of management and operations, which truly means overseeing the campus, it's buildings, it's operations, and its services, all the non-academic.

[00:02:50] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, and ~I report to the president. ~Uh, I've been, um. I, ~I've been in the workplace for more than 30 years now. ~Uh, ~started in, ~uh, p and g, ~Proctor and Gamble in Egypt. I ~went with them, ~worked ~in a few, uh, ~for a few [00:03:00] years in Brussels in Belgium, and came back home in, ~uh, ~2007. ~Um, ~did a few more corporate jobs and then, ~um, ~moved to academia nearly six years ago where I work now.

[00:03:11] Shereen Shaker: And I have two, ~um, ~beautiful girls who are living and working in the state. One is in, ~uh, ~Virginia, and one is currently in Indianapolis where I'm visiting her. ~Uh, ~but she's on the move, so she'll probably be ~in a, ~in a different state in a couple weeks. ~Uh, ~so happy to be with you and, ~um, happy, ~always happy to connect with you and Bob, who, ~uh, uh, ~are very special.

[00:03:33] Shereen Shaker: And the journey we share together is extremely special, and I'm sure we'll talk more about that today. I attend a church in Cairo, Egypt. ~Um, ~yeah, that's it.

[00:03:45] Bob Varney: And ~I, uh, uh, ~I was, as you were describing the work that you do, ~uh, ~I just envisioned the tour that you, ~uh, ~gave us last time I was there, ~uh, ~you know, around the campus.

[00:03:53] Bob Varney: It's amazing campus. It's a wonderful campus.

[00:03:56] Shereen Shaker: It ~actually ~is. ~Yes.~

[00:03:56] Bob Varney: And I think you mentioned, ~uh, ~it's not, it wasn't clear when I [00:04:00] first heard your position and what you did. ~Um, ~the number of people that are engaged with you that you have responsibility for. Why don't you tell us that number? ~'cause it's a, it's a good size number.~

[00:04:07] Shereen Shaker: Sure. ~So, ~so there are 800 people in my organization, ~um, ~200, 300 security, another, ~a ~couple of hundred ~of ~maintenance staff. ~Um, and then ~I oversee other services. So all the. ~Kind of, um, ~food services, events, ~uh, ~all kinds of business support services. ~Uh, and then ~we have two campuses. There's the new Cairo campus.

[00:04:26] Shereen Shaker: There's a campus in downtown in Square. ~Uh, ~so yeah, all in all 800 a mix of obviously directors, managers, ~uh, ~blue collars, guards, mechanics, you name it. ~Uh, ~so, ~uh, ~yeah, large, large team of people to be responsible for, but ~it, but then a very, um. ~I'm very honored also to do that because it gives me a lot of, ~uh, ~exposure to different people, different groups of people, ~and, um, and, um, and, ~and really, ~uh, ~leeway of making an impact ~on their, ~on their lives.

[00:04:50] Shereen Shaker: So very thankful for that as well.

[00:04:53] Hugh Brandt: Well, Srin, I have to tell you, I'm jealous. ~I've not yet received a tour of American University, so next time~

[00:04:55] Shereen Shaker: I know Bob there,

[00:04:59] Hugh Brandt: next time

[00:04:59] Shereen Shaker: ~you come, next time ~you come. [00:05:00]

[00:05:00] Hugh Brandt: Shereen, ~you, ~you oversee 800 people. ~That ~that's an incredible number. But in the midst of that and all the other work you've had, what's it ~tell us what it's ~been like for you to integrate your faith in the work you've been doing.

[00:05:12] Hugh Brandt: Not only there, but in the previous companies. Tell us about that.

[00:05:17] Shereen Shaker: Okay. So I think, ~uh, ~one of the, ~uh, ~kind of magnificent principles to really get and comprehend is the fact that. It's all one thing. It's not about faith in the church ~weekdays and then Sunday, sorry. And then, I mean, I mean, ~weekdays at work and Sunday at church, it really doesn't work that way.

[00:05:33] Shereen Shaker: But really it is about living one life, one integrated life. ~And um, ~living out our calling in the workplace is an honor and is a privilege, and it's something if we get right in our mind, then it becomes a lot easier to live. And we see the purpose and we see the value, and we see the meaning of it when we try to get it right.

[00:05:53] Shereen Shaker: So basically living, ~uh, ~my calling at the workplace, ~uh, uh, ~all along the jobs that I've been [00:06:00] at, ~um, ~really means to me doing the best I can, ~um, ~on the job that I'm put in, and with the people that I work with day in, day out, to do two things to really get the best. Work product out there. So do it, you know, best I can.

[00:06:14] Shereen Shaker: Good quality, ~um, ~in the best way. And at the same time, ~uh, ~work with people, treat them, ~uh, ~justly and fairly and with dignity. ~Uh, and, ~and ~really, um, um, ~it really goes beyond the typical corporate phrase of collaboration, but really doing the best for people. And I think one thing that I really believe in very much is that people.

[00:06:34] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~people get it. ~Uh, ~and that you can't fake real love. So ~if you love, ~if you love them, ~treat what, ~treat them right with compassion. With dignity. It does come across. And if you fail to do that, it also comes across very easily. People are smart no matter who, I mean the category that you're dealing with.

[00:06:50] Shereen Shaker: ~And, ~and people really tend to get it. And I think ~the, um, I mean ~the beauty ~of, ~of. Working with a lot of people is that, ~I mean, I, ~I have a lot of opportunity to make an impact on people's lives, [00:07:00] whether it's by when somebody is trying to choose another, ~um, uh, ~assignment to move into whether someone is in a difficult situation, whether different kinds ~of ~of situations, ~uh, ~are out there every day ~to, ~to show people, ~um, ~to really show them Jesus' love and compassion.

[00:07:15] Shereen Shaker: And at the same time not compromise at all on work, work standards and doing the best for whatever the company, the university, ~the, the, ~the workplace. And I've seen God's hand move. ~Um, ~I mean, I, I'm really very grateful, ~uh, ~for all the jobs that I was able to do and the movement I've done. ~Um, ~I, I'm now gonna be completing six years on the job at a UC big job.

[00:07:37] Shereen Shaker: And it's only with God's grace. That every day I can go to the workplace, do the best I can ~and, ~and make an impact.

[00:07:44] Bob Varney: You know, ~uh, ~I know that, that Hugh has a number of things he wanted to ask, but, ~um, ~it strikes me that, ~uh, ~I'm curious, ~uh, ~you, you've been through our leadership circle, ~uh, ~and yet you've, you began a while ago, back in, when you were up in Belgium or whatever, ~uh, ~[00:08:00] beginning to see all of life as one.

[00:08:03] Bob Varney: ~Um. ~Could you describe a little bit about the journey and, and did was what, what might have been added in your, ~uh, ~in, as you went through the leadership circle and now as you, as you lead those for other people, how has that affect affected

[00:08:17] Shereen Shaker: you? No, I think the leadership circle, I mean, ~it just, uh, it, it, it, ~it puts the principles ~that, I mean, that, ~that I already, that God spoke to me about and I was trying to live out gradually, bit by bit in my life.

[00:08:27] Shereen Shaker: But, ~but when, ~when it was, what the principles that are put together and packaged in a way that makes sense and that really, you know, it just makes sense ~when, when you, ~when you see, okay, that's what God has been kind of training me on the job for. But at the same time, ~this is how it, ~this is how the, the teaching or the, the principles are.

[00:08:44] Shereen Shaker: It just sticks in your mind a lot more and you do it more purposefully and it just, ~um, it, it ~makes sense more. ~You, you can, you know. You, ~you can make sense out of it all, ~uh, ~together in a better way. Leadership Circle is an amazing program. ~Amazing. ~An amazing course, and a more amazing program. We'll talk a bit more about [00:09:00] that.

[00:09:00] Shereen Shaker: ~I, ~I assume the interview, but it really helped me put my hand very solidly on the principles that I already knew, but they were kind of scattered. ~Uh, ~but it just put them all together in one place ~and, ~and have a logic and a sense and a meaning to, ~uh, ~in such a great way. And every single time we teach that course is just.

[00:09:17] Shereen Shaker: You know, it's just very special every single time you get a new angle or it, ~you know, ~solidifies more. ~And, uh, I mean they, I, ~I can speak on behalf of the whole Egypt team who just love the program ~and it, uh, ~and I'm sure that it will make a difference ~in, uh, ~in many more lives. Everybody who goes through that cohort, it's really, really, ~uh, ~mind changing.

[00:09:35] Shereen Shaker: ~And, ~and once you get your mind fixed, then you can easily live out the principles once you get your mind right.

[00:09:42] Hugh Brandt: Thank you so much for saying that, Shereen, ~it's, um, again, ~our partnership has been ~a, ~a great time. Shereen, ~I, you know, ~you know, we love stories. Can you tell us a story of where you found it difficult to live by faith in your work, but also a story where you experienced a time [00:10:00] where God came through ~and, ~and you experienced a victory, ~uh, ~a success.

[00:10:05] Shereen Shaker: Okay. I can recall one thing. ~Uh, the, I mean, basic, ~the majority of us know that the most difficult thing, ~uh, in, ~in the workplace is not really the work itself or the problem you're trying to solve, but more the relationships and how they work out ~in, ~in any given, ~uh, uh, place or ~workplace. ~Um, ~I can give an example of a relationship that was.

[00:10:24] Shereen Shaker: That, ~uh, ~started around three years ago, ~uh, when, ~when my boss ~put, ~created a role and that role, ~uh, ~was put in place so that we, ~that role kind of audits some of my work and we have to close ~closely, work, hand in hand, ~uh, a a lot ~together. So that role is basically called University Architect, and that role ~is, ~is to put design in place and make sure ~the, the, the guide, ~the design guidelines of the campus isn't compromised.

[00:10:44] Shereen Shaker: ~So, ~so they put this so that team would put the standards and my team would execute according ~to, to, ~to those designs. ~Uh, so there, ~there was ~lots of things, uh, ~lots of interactions back and forth. ~And ~initially there was a lot of power struggle, ~uh, ~with that individual ~who was put in charge of that. Um, who, ~who was fitting that role?

[00:10:59] Shereen Shaker: It was ~very, ~very [00:11:00] rocky. It took a long time, day in, day out to work on a relationship. ~And, um, ~and at times it got very difficult, really difficult, ~uh, ~and I was kind of giving up. It's like, okay, this is really hard to do. ~Uh, ~but again, I tried to, ~you know, ~do the right thing, ~uh, ~every time. And now I can look back ~and, and really, uh, ~and honestly say that now ~we're, ~he's one of my best friends at work.

[00:11:20] Shereen Shaker: We work very well together. We back up each other. ~Uh, ~when he's gone, ~I, ~I look after the work when I'm gone, he looks after the work. And we work. ~Um, I, ~I can see the, ~the, i, I wanna call it miraculous, but, but it, it really was a hundred, ~180 degree turnaround in the relationship. And it is only by God's grace, that individual is not of the Christian faith.

[00:11:38] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~Egypt, for those who don't know, is made up of around 85%, ~um, uh, ~Muslims from the Islamic faith. And, ~uh, ~Christians are around 15%. ~Uh, so, so ~especially when I'm working and I work every day of course with Muslims, they tend to really observe how Christians think and live and, ~uh, ~treat other people and do their work.

[00:11:58] Shereen Shaker: ~And, um, and whenever you do something, you know,~

[00:11:58] Shereen Shaker: I was, I wanna [00:12:00] say in, in a perfect way, it does stand out and it is definitely always team. So that person is ~of the, of, of, ~of the Islam, ~um, uh, ~faith. And I wanna say that now I, I can give glory to God that I'm sure that he sees something different and that ~we, you know, and, and ~we both ~en ~enjoy ~the, uh, the, ~the transformed, ~uh, ~relationship now at work ~that we, ~that we have.

[00:12:17] Shereen Shaker: So I'm very, very thankful to God ~for, ~for that.

[00:12:20] Hugh Brandt: And Shereen, ~um, ~the story you told us this happened over a period of a day, or how long did it take for you to work through this, this journey with this fellow worker?

[00:12:30] Shereen Shaker: No, it's now three years long, but things started improving roundabout after a year, year and a half.

[00:12:36] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~so it does take a lot of work. It does take, you know, four steps forward, three steps back, kind of thing, up and down. ~Uh, ~but you need to, like anything in life, perseverance is the key. And ~when you, you know, ~when you put your heart on it, you at the end, you need to make it work.

[00:12:53] Hugh Brandt: Thank you, Shereen. That's a powerful story.

[00:12:56] Hugh Brandt: We all can relate Shereen, I believe it was something [00:13:00] like 2017 where, ~um, ~we encountered you and others there ~that, ~that you work with. ~Um, ~what would you say led you to want to partner with, ~um, ~C Project Global and us?

[00:13:14] Shereen Shaker: ~Um, ~we in, I mean basically ~the, the, ~the team of people ~that we, ~that I serve with in Egypt, we, ~um.~

[00:13:19] Shereen Shaker: Our focus is the workplace, and our focus is equipping believers to live their calling in the workplace. So when we saw the, ~um, ~leadership circle and ~the, ~the topics that you, ~uh, ~talk about and ~that you, uh, ~that the courses is ~hinged, uh, ~hinged upon, we just saw such a great, ~um, I mean, ~synergy and intersection between the two, and we really thought that this would, I mean, ~it, ~it really hit the spot and we thought that, ~you know, it, it just, ~it just makes so much sense to partner with you.

[00:13:44] Shereen Shaker: ~Um, and ~I think this was one of the best decisions that ~we've, uh, ~we've made. ~Uh, I mean, it does, I mean, ~it does really go together so well, and every single time we teach that course, something is still an eye-opener ~and, ~and something still is, ~uh, ~new to learn. I think the way ~the, um, ~this course is [00:14:00] packaged, all the engagement opportunities, the role plays, ~and, you know, it's, ~it's a very.

[00:14:05] Shereen Shaker: Dynamic kind. It's not a static kind of teaching, but ~it's, it's ~the way it's designed and made up is so engaging. It's so fun. People get together, enjoy it. We never have a cohort that doesn't fully enjoy their time together and we just uncover the principles in such a creative and nice way. There's videos, there's, ~uh, ~debates.

[00:14:23] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~these are one of the hu's favorite ones when he was trying to teach us that course. It was hard to get us under control at times, but such as the Mediterranean culture. For those who haven't worked with any of us. ~Um, ~but ~I, ~I mean, ~it's, it's, ~it's a lot of fun. At the same time, we uncover principles together.

[00:14:40] Shereen Shaker: We discover, we learn, ~uh, ~we talk, we discuss, we debate. ~It's, uh, ~it's just a lot of fun. ~Uh, ~so I would ~highly, ~highly encourage, ~uh, ~anyone who hasn't done that course ~to, uh, to, ~to go through it definitely with it.

[00:14:53] Hugh Brandt: Ena, I have to tell you, ~I, ~I remember one of our first trips, Bob and I were there with you and the others, your team in your living [00:15:00] room.

[00:15:00] Hugh Brandt: ~And, um, ~we were talking, trying to decide whether we would want to work with one another. ~And, um, ~one of your colleagues said, can we talk with one another in Arabic? And then we'll get back to you. ~And um, ~Bob and I sat there for about 10 minutes as you guys discussed, and then you came back and said that you would be delighted to work with us.

[00:15:16] Hugh Brandt: And of course. Bob and I had already made that decision that we were delighted to work with you guys and it's been a great relationship all these years since, I mean, eight years now, I believe. ~Mm. Um, ~it's ~been a, ~been a delight. ~It ~

[00:15:28] Shereen Shaker: ~has been great. ~It has been great. ~Yeah. ~And I'm very proud to say that many ideas were born in my living room.

[00:15:33] Hugh Brandt: Yes, ~I think so. ~I think so. And I have to say this is, ~um, ~you know, my favorite word in Arabic, which I probably don't pronounce right, but it is Gadel.

[00:15:42] Shereen Shaker: Yes.

[00:15:43] Hugh Brandt: And I, my understanding is it means discussion,

[00:15:46] Shereen Shaker: debate, ~debate, debate, debate.~

[00:15:46] Hugh Brandt: Yes. ~I, ~I remember the first time we were going through it, and I was facilitating all of you.

[00:15:51] Hugh Brandt: And you're right. ~I, ~I would give you a couple questions and you just got into this really strong debate discussion. I said, what do you call [00:16:00] this? An Arabic? And you told me, Goodell, I said, I was so impressed with your gadel because you're right, there were very hot

[00:16:06] Shereen Shaker: tempered people. ~So,~

[00:16:07] Hugh Brandt: but you, it's obvious, you, obvious you learn from one another because that's the idea of the leadership circle is we want workplace leaders who are experts to learn from one another and engage one another and not given easily, but to again, really learn, ~um, ~from each other.

[00:16:25] Hugh Brandt: And you guys do that really well?

[00:16:27] Bob Varney: Yeah. We've, we, we always recognize that. You know, you have a bunch of Christians coming together, each of us has been walking with the Lord a different amount of time. God makes us different. I mean, ~we have, ~we have different gifts. We're different personalities. ~Um, ~we have different experiences.

[00:16:43] Bob Varney: So it's easy ~to, when you think, when you sit back and think about it, ~to realize that there's with a, with a table full about 15 people and, and we bring up some topic ~on, on the table. Um. ~Some people ~have, ~have gone pretty far on that topic already. They've had experiences and they can bring those back so that others can learn from what they had already learned [00:17:00] through God.

[00:17:00] Bob Varney: You know, so it's, ~we, ~we really rely on, ~on the, ~the journeys that the members of the leadership circle have had before they even show up. And that makes this Goodell really rich, I

[00:17:13] Shereen Shaker: ~think. Yes. Yes. ~Correct.

[00:17:14] Bob Varney: Yeah.

[00:17:15] Hugh Brandt: Michel, excuse me, I'm Shereen. You've already told us, ~uh, ~an example how, ~um, ~what you found helpful with the Leadership Circle, but can you give another example?

[00:17:25] Hugh Brandt: How has the leadership circle added to your work in your life? Is there something else that stands out to you that you'd like to mention today?

[00:17:34] Shereen Shaker: Okay. There's ~one of those one, ~one of the topics I just cannot get over every single time, which is this, ~uh, which is. Uh, ~and if someone has read his book or seen the videos, ~uh, ~it's about what definition of what Shalom is, and he defines it very, very, very nicely as, ~um, ~when you come into a disorderly place and you, and, ~and you, ~you manage to get out of it, ~ut ~order and abundance, which is what God [00:18:00] did, ~um, in, in the, ~in the Garden of Eden.

[00:18:02] Shereen Shaker: Before it was just very unorderly. It was all over the place, and that's what he did. ~Um, and, ~and that beauty was the first word that he used. First beauty, then order, then abundance. And if we look at our jobs, that's really what we, at the end of the day, ~we, we, um, we, we, ~we get an output, whether it is mostly beauty, mostly order mostly abundance or the three together.

[00:18:22] Shereen Shaker: And that principle is just for me, every time I think about work or think about situation, I put him and it's make and, and sweetie, that that output that the. The blend of the three is really what Shalom is all about. And if we can bring that to our, whether it's our workplace, our community, our city, wherever we are, that is getting the kingdom of God to the place, and that's what Shalom looks like.

[00:18:48] Shereen Shaker: I love that principle and I really try to live by it. ~Uh, ~and every time I think about it, it's just mind blowing. ~Uh, ~there's many things in the leadership circle that have. ~Um, ~kind of made a mark and, ~and, um, ~[00:19:00] and it's really a, ~and ~I wanna say ~it's, ~it's the transformation of the mind is really ~what, what, what, ~what this course is all about.

[00:19:06] Shereen Shaker: I mean, there's two objectives, really the mind process. And then at the end there's outputs, physical things that we can do as projects to help the community. But ~they're, I mean, ~they're equally both as important, but the mind piece is very, very fundamental ~and, and a lot of, I can name a lot of things that I really love about, but this, this one is my absolute favorite.~

[00:19:20] Shereen Shaker: The, ~um, ~beauty order in abundance. Yeah. That it's to shalon.

[00:19:24] Bob Varney: ~That's great. ~That's great. Yeah. One of the things that, ~uh, ~happened to me long before the leadership circle. ~Um, ~was, I was working in transition, you know, and I ended up ~doing, ~doing the transition, ~uh, ~being the architect of the transition from Bill Bright stepping, ~uh, ~out of his president role.

[00:19:38] Bob Varney: ~Uh, ~but what had happened to me is I, I'd gone through a lot of transitions beforehand and, ~um, ~I was curious about them. So I asked a friend of mine, he sent me a bunch of books. ~I, ~I thought I was gonna be, ~uh, ~studying these things for the next year or so. ~Uh, ~but it only took me a few weeks. Because what I found was that ~in, ~in my particular case, [00:20:00] WI found principles, I found, ~uh, ~extensive work on the depth, the depth of those concepts.

[00:20:10] Bob Varney: I found some research that supported those concepts. I found structure that they went into, I found naming things, ~you know, I, so they, they got sort of organized for me. Um. ~So as we began putting this leadership circle together, we borrowed things from different people so that you could, ~uh, ~get a picture of this is what somebody says this looks like, and this is its structure and this is its name and this is how it fits into a diagram and this is how it fits into some research.

[00:20:34] Bob Varney: And so all of these things together, it seems to me. Help people, ~um, ~like your beauty order and abundance. I mean, we got it from Sky Tani ~and, ~and he packages it in a certain way. ~Uh, ~and just the packaging ~of, ~of a concept ~is, ~is particularly valuable. So we've tried to put a bunch of those into the leadership circle for that reason.

[00:20:54] Shereen Shaker: Yeah, and ~uh, ~you've done it very successfully, ~I have to say.~

[00:20:56] Hugh Brandt: Thanks. Well, the great thing is ~I, ~I think [00:21:00] Shereen, you guys have made it culturally appropriate for you in Egypt. ~Um, ~and, and tell us how many cohorts have gone through it in Arabic?

[00:21:09] Shereen Shaker: We have done, is it five or six? ~Uh, ~I get confused. I think we've just finished our sixth.

[00:21:15] Shereen Shaker: ~Yeah,~

[00:21:15] Hugh Brandt: I know you've had ~now ~quite a few people go through it over these five or six years.

[00:21:19] Shereen Shaker: Yes. ~We typically, uh, ~we typically start out at around 20 to 22. Participants, ~uh, we, ~it's very typical that around two to four don't make it for reasons. Either they get too busy or they can't make the commitment. ~Uh, ~but we normally end up with around at least 16 to 18, ~uh, in, ~in a given cohort.

[00:21:36] Shereen Shaker: ~Um, and again, ~we just completed ~now a, uh, ~a cohort where we added the spheres, ~uh, ~together with the basic leadership circle, which was the first time that ~we, ~we've done ~that ~both in one. ~It was a, ~it was a long one because we did them back to back. ~Uh, ~and we had the round, I think 24 participants in this, ~um, ~in, in this cohort,

[00:21:54] Hugh Brandt: ~you, you mentioned spheres that this was added in.~

[00:21:54] Hugh Brandt: ~Um, ~tell us about the spheres. What is this that you're ~discuss ~mentioning?

[00:21:58] Shereen Shaker: Okay, so these are [00:22:00] the, ~um, ~these are how any, ~uh, ~you can dissect society into the, I mean, that's one way of looking at seven spheres. Which are, ~um, ~education, family, ~uh, ~technology and business, ~uh, ~religion, ~uh, ~media and the, ~um, ~arts and entertainment.

[00:22:16] Shereen Shaker: So that's, I mean, there, there's different ways you can dissect, ~uh, ~any, any society. And that's, and that's one of them. And that's a curriculum that YWAM have put together. ~Um, ~and basically it's, ~um, ~it's really very powerful because it, ~um, it gives you. It, ~it gives you a deeper way of looking by sector or by sphere into, in, into that society.

[00:22:37] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, in, ~in society. What, what, what's, I mean, how that sphere comes into play. ~Um, ~what needs to be restored about that sphere and really is kind of an application of the leadership circle principles, but how to apply it in the different spheres. ~Um, again, it's the, it's not the, I mean. Both kind, both, uh, ~both The curricula are very different in terms of format ~and, ~and the way ~they're, ~they're done.

[00:22:56] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~so we're still in the experimenting phase ~with the, ~with the sphere. It's very [00:23:00] biblical, so a lot of biblical foundation, a lot of scripture that they refer to in particular as it ~really, as, as each, as ~relates ~to, ~to each sphere. And, ~um, very, ~very powerful. ~Um. It. ~And again, ~it, it, I mean ~it really is the application at the end ~and, ~and how kingdom leaders can impact the spheres that they work in, ~um, uh, in a, in a, ~in a way that brings ~the ~glory to God and restores and brings that field to, ~to, uh, ~restoration, ~uh, ~while working ~at it ~in it.

[00:23:22] Shereen Shaker: ~You did~

[00:23:22] Hugh Brandt: a great job describing that. Thank you so much. ~I, ~I agree. ~It's, um. ~It's been really great that we have partnered with YWAM to bring this powerful curriculum in as part of the leadership circle, but unique in its own right. As you described Shereen, you know that just last year we published our first book called The Intersection Faith, work and Life.

[00:23:43] Hugh Brandt: And again, it was exciting for us to see that you guys were the first one to translate it into another language, to translate it into Arabic, and we're just delighted because. We have a desire, as do you, to get this message of living with God every day, [00:24:00] living out our faith in an integrated way. But Rin tell us, ~um, ~what are your plans for using this book now that you have it in Arabic?

[00:24:09] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, we, so, so we, ~we just got it translated very recently and we're still beginning ~to, um, ~to find ways to distribute it. ~Um, so one, ~one of the ways that we're hoping ~we can, um, we can, ~we can get copies out to people is by having it available in conferences or conventions or, ~you know, um, ~retreats that we go to, partnering with different churches or different entities.

[00:24:28] Shereen Shaker: So ~we're, ~we're going to a conference ~in, um, in hopefully, God willing, we go in, uh, ~in the fall, ~in, uh, ~in Africa, in Ghana, and we plan to take some copies with us. ~Uh, we, we, we, I mean we, ~we just got the prints very recently, so ~we haven't yet. I mean, we're not, ~we haven't yet started on a very, ~you know, ~large scale, but ~we, we, ~we do plan to have them ready ~in any, you know, using them with, with, as I said, ~in any opportunity that we can.

[00:24:43] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~the beauty of Arabic is the Arabic is, ~um, ~you know, spoken and read in, in all the Arab countries and not just Egypt. So we also have opportunity ~to get it, ~to get it beyond. ~Uh, ~in the Levant areas ~and the um, and, and, ~and beyond. ~Um, ~the beauty of this book is that it is, ~um, ~it's a simple read. ~Uh, ~it's, it's, [00:25:00] it's quite, it's a relatively small book.

[00:25:02] Shereen Shaker: It's an easy read. ~It, ~it really taps into the basic principles without elaborating too much on them, but it gives kind of a foretaste. To what ~the whole, the, ~the bigger course is about. And I think it's a very attractive way to, ~uh, ~pass it on ~to, ~to people. ~I've, ~I've given a few copies to people ~in, ~in my workplace and ~it, ~it touches on the principles, giving them a kind of a teaser of what they can expect or look for ~in a, ~in a bigger course.

[00:25:27] Shereen Shaker: So I think ~it's, uh, uh, I mean, ~it can be used very nicely. And now that we have both the English and the Arabic language. ~Um, ~and hopefully, ~I mean, ~the word spreads to ~um, I mean ~many more people. So congratulations on the book and we're very happy that we're the first to translate.

[00:25:40] Bob Varney: Right. I was excited to get my copy.

[00:25:42] Bob Varney: ~Shereen. This is the front, uh, if, if,~

[00:25:42] Shereen Shaker: and I have the English start from ~you, uh, ~you a few days ago. That's good.

[00:25:48] Hugh Brandt: That's good. Okay. It seems like I'm jealous today because I do not have a copy of it in, so there's a lot of truth coming out in this podcast. [00:26:00] Serena, as you've had a chance to read through the book, ~um, ~how do ~you, can ~you see it being helpful in recruiting people to the leadership circle, but also how do you see it being helpful just to people who read it and maybe that's.

[00:26:12] Hugh Brandt: They would not join the leadership circle. How do you see it being helpful?

[00:26:17] Shereen Shaker: No, it's still very, very helpful and I think the, one of the most powerful, ~uh, ~principles that are being laid down in the book is the whole principle of culture, what it takes to change culture. What is culture? What are we called, ~uh, ~to do about culture as believers and ~I, ~I think the whole discussion around culture is so powerful and so important.

[00:26:39] Shereen Shaker: So even if people decide ~not to join the, ~not to join any, ~you know, ~leadership circle cohorts or the spheres or whatever, but they still address very important topics. And it's ~not topics, they're ~not topics that the church preaches about every day. ~Um, ~actually very rare does the church get into, ~uh. I mean ~such, ~uh, ~I would say they look as non-spiritual, [00:27:00] however, ~uh, ~very, very impactful and they really do impact the way we work.

[00:27:03] Shereen Shaker: We live in such a great way. So the whole, ~um, ~topic of culture is very nicely addressed in the book, and I think it would make ~a, ~a lasting, ~um, ~difference ~in, ~in anybody who reads it. ~Um, ~so it can be used independently, ~uh, ~whether to, ~you know, ~invite people to the course or not, or just as a great book. And again, as I said, a very nice and easy read.

[00:27:23] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~I think you guys have done really well with the book.

[00:27:26] Bob Varney: Thank you. That's really great. ~And I, ~and I really appreciate what you say about culture, ~uh, ~because there's nuances in culture that we often miss. I mean, I think we're all familiar with ~the, ~the story of the frog. You know, you put the frog in ~a, ~a set a little piece of water and you put it on the stove and he's happy swimming around in a little bowl.

[00:27:44] Bob Varney: ~Uh, ~and then you turn the heat up and he's still a little happy and he doesn't notice. And ~uh, ~at some point he dies 'cause it's just gets too hot. Right. Well, culture is like that. You know, when we grow up in a culture and we see a lot of this in the digital world that we live in, the effect that, that [00:28:00] it's now having on the children that are growing up in the midst of it.

[00:28:03] Bob Varney: ~Uh, ~you know, a, a culture, ~um, ~affects us when we're not noticing it, just like the frog, you know? ~Uh, ~so if we can help wake people up to the idea that culture actually matters, what is my culture? And asking the question, well, is my culture affecting me in a way I actually don't want it to affect me. ~Oh my goodness.~

[00:28:25] Bob Varney: Now what do I do? I mean, ~so it's, it's a, ~it's a powerful thing, this notion of culture. So I'm glad you brought that up. Thanks.

[00:28:31] Shereen Shaker: Yeah. And the fact that we are culture, we're called to be culture makers and culture changer, and that we can impact, we're not just receivers, we're not just consumers. I think this is, ~uh, ~very well, very nicely handled in the course and in the book, ~uh, ~with different angles.

[00:28:46] Shereen Shaker: I think it's just great. So, ~uh, ~yeah, the more we get exposed to that, ~the more, ~the more it we'll make a difference.

[00:28:52] Hugh Brandt: Well, you know, Shereen, ~um, ~we're also wanting to have the book translated into four other languages like Portuguese and Spanish and French and [00:29:00] Russian. ~Um, you know, ~and we also desire that it would be taken.

[00:29:03] Hugh Brandt: To other ~Arab speaking, ~Arabic speaking countries. And do you guys have any plans for how you might expand what you're currently doing and maybe how you can use the book or other means to, ~um, ~continue to spread this teaching that God ~is, ~is restoring all of his creation. He's inviting us to join him in doing that.

[00:29:23] Shereen Shaker: Amen. No, I think we, I mean we, our plans are to, ~um. ~To start using it more and more since we just got it printed, then, you know, take it with us wherever we're, you know, we're traveling to a conference soon in the fall. We're so tapping into opportunities like that, I think ~will, uh, will, uh, I mean, ~will help us reach more people, ~um, uh, ~with that great book.

[00:29:41] Shereen Shaker: ~Um, and, ~and again, I mean, we're hoping that we, I mean, so far we've only been doing cohorts in Cairo. We're hoping to extend that to go. And like, ~um, ~upper Egypt, other places within Egypt that we haven't gone to as well as other places in the Arab world that ~we, ~we haven't, ~uh, ~gone to. So I think ~there's, there's, I mean ~there's potential there.

[00:29:59] Shereen Shaker: ~Um, and ~hopefully [00:30:00] as we, ~I mean, ~we've thought about ~in our, in our, in our, ~in our core team, if we kind of split and ~we start, um, and we ~start handling more geographies in terms of what ~we, ~we wanna start more in Egypt and, ~and upper, upper, ~upper Egypt, where ~we, um. ~We really think that there's, ~uh, I mean there's a, ~a big need there.

[00:30:12] Shereen Shaker: So that's, I think, ~uh, ~we're hopeful ~that ~that will be our next step or milestone. We're actually looking at also, ~uh, ~trying to, ~uh, ~do ~a ~shorter versions ~of the, of the, ~of the course so that we also reach other church entities and institutions. ~By that. ~That's our kind of next project, and we're hopeful ~that we, um, ~that we go there.

[00:30:31] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~and again, part of our. Middle Eastern culture is our, our time aspect is very fluid. We tend to go longer in discussions, longer. We like long and happy discussions, but we're trying to reach a format where we go short and concise so that we can, we can explore opportunities where people don't have that much time.

[00:30:50] Shereen Shaker: They want a shorter version, kind of a three day course or something that would, that would give them in a, in a nutshell, what it's all about without. Going through the whole journey. [00:31:00] So we're having some thoughts about that. And we're, ~um, we're looking hopefully to get kind of a, a different format of the course developed, hopefully by end of this year, uh, ~so that we can also reach more people in a different way.

[00:31:05] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~other than ~the, ~the long, ~uh, ~cohort that is very, very nice. But for people who have the time to go through the long good COVID.

[00:31:13] Bob Varney: Yeah. As you know, ~uh, ~from some of our previous discussions, ~uh, we're also working. ~Hugh and I are working on what we call some modules that we can actually put online. ~Uh, now ~the format changes dramatically ~when, ~when you move out of a person to person interaction where you have discussions.

[00:31:27] Bob Varney: ~Uh, ~the Goodell is hard, ~uh, ~online, but, ~uh, nevertheless, uh, it's, ~it's another venue for us. ~You know, ~like the book is a venue of, of getting these principles out, ~uh, ~in forms that people can get to them. Easily, ~uh, and, and, and, ~and get into a place where they say, ~you know, ~I'd like to go a little further into this, so maybe I want to join a leadership circle.

[00:31:46] Bob Varney: So ~we, ~we should, ~uh, ~continue to, ~uh, ~work our, you know, exchange notes.

[00:31:51] Shereen Shaker: Yes.

[00:31:51] Bob Varney: ~Uh, ~as we both think about what shorter looks like and what are the concepts that you really want to exercise, ~uh, ~which ones come first, you know, all that kinda stuff.

[00:31:59] Shereen Shaker: Yeah. ~And online is great. ~Online is [00:32:00] just such a great tool. ~Yeah.~

[00:32:01] Shereen Shaker: Makes it accessible and easy for all. Cost, different time zones, different borders. ~Yeah. ~So I think also tapping into an online, ~uh, ~version ~is, ~is probably a great idea.

[00:32:12] Hugh Brandt: Well, you know, ~um, ~Rine having had the privilege of coming to Cairo many times, ~um, ~and riding in a car with you, going from one side to the other can take a long time in this fairly large city of 20 million.

[00:32:24] Hugh Brandt: ~So. ~You're right. Using Zoom, doing it online, even within this great city of 20 million can really be a benefit, ~um, ~because you don't have to spend ~Yes, ~an hour and a half to get from ~one, ~one spot to another. And again, I think you guys have done a great job. ~And you know, I have to tell you, I, ~I have so admired that you guys have built in retreats when you take people through the leadership circles, so not just one.

[00:32:47] Hugh Brandt: Or not just one at the end or the beginning, but during the time you take them away where they have a chance, I think, to really get to know one another, but ~a chance for ~maybe relaxed goodell where there's time to just, not [00:33:00] just during the session, but afterward when you're having meals and all that. Am I right to say that?

[00:33:06] Shereen Shaker: Yes, absolutely. ~No, I think it, um, I mean, ~what we've learned is when we start off with a retreat. ~At the, ~the very first, ~uh, um, ~month or two ~or no matter how many months of the, ~of the new leadership circle ~we, we, we put in ~the first retreat makes a big difference because people connect, ~uh, ~face to face, they get to know one another.

[00:33:20] Shereen Shaker: It's a much nicer, ~you know, ~launchpad ~than the beginning. Uh, which, ~which ~gets people to get, ~gets people to really interact, ~uh, ~a lot ~more ~faster, ~I would say, ~and get to know each other better. ~So in, ~in this last cohort, we had two retreats, one in the beginning and one around ~in ~the middle when we started the Spheres.

[00:33:34] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~and it was actually a great experience. I think having at least one retreat ~in, um, ~in the mix adds a lot ~and, uh, ~and people get to know each other so much better ~and ~which also helps when people are then, ~um, ~wanting ~to. To, ~to focus on a project. It's then easier to know ~what, ~what people do, what they work, and having them know each other faster.

[00:33:53] Shereen Shaker: Also kind of expedites that, ~uh, ~choice of project to work on in the starting the middle. So it, it was [00:34:00] definitely ~an, uh, ~something that ~we, we, ~we hope that we can always repeat having at least one retreat during ~the, ~the journey. We go to very basic places, ~not very, I mean, uh, ~like church, ~uh, ~retreat centers.

[00:34:10] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~that's what we, that's what we do. ~Um, ~and we go for the weekends, starting Thursday night, going back home Saturday night. So typically that's what a retreat ~would, uh, ~would look like.

[00:34:19] Hugh Brandt: I think that's fascinating. What you're saying is, is workplace leaders live very full lives like yourself. The all the work you have to do, and yet when you're off a retreat, people make time.

[00:34:30] Hugh Brandt: And they come to the retreat and that, I'm sure part of it is they see the great value of being on that retreat and they will have the opportunity ~to, ~to get to know people better, but also to dig deeper into the topics that, ~that we, ~we present to them. So that you guys have really been ~a, ~a teacher to me communicating to me the power of these retreats and what you do during the retreats.

[00:34:51] Hugh Brandt: And of course, the excellent food that is offered in the, the beautiful location of each retreat center. ~It's, um, and you, you guys have really discovered something powerful there. ~You really have [00:35:00] Reem. We're coming toward the end of our time and what else do you wanna tell our listening audience? What, ~what do you want to say to Bob and I but to say to the many, many, many people that are listening as well, what do you, ~what do you need to say to to them?

[00:35:09] Hugh Brandt: To us?

[00:35:10] Shereen Shaker: ~I think we, yeah, ~I think we ~as, um, ~as believers. People who are in the workplace, we have such a great potential and opportunity to make an impact. ~And I think, uh, you know, it's, I mean, you just, ~you don't work to get food on the table. ~I mean, ~that's really not what work is. And if you, if you work with a purpose and, ~uh, ~and seeing what God wants to do through your work, ~and again, ~you can be a waiter, you can be, ~uh, ~working in a factory.

[00:35:32] Shereen Shaker: You can be a manager, you can be an executive manager. Whatever level it really, that's not, I mean, in, in whatever God has called us each one to do, according to his own vocational calling is very, is very, ~uh, uh, ~precious. It's very impactful and how we live, our calling every day in the workplace is such a great honor and privilege, ~uh, ~that the Lord has given us.

[00:35:57] Shereen Shaker: So not to be taken rightly. And ~we need to look for ways to, to really, uh, live our calling in a, in a, in a better way. ~We need to [00:36:00] look for ways to do our work better. We need to look for ways ~to, ~to join like-minded people, and it doesn't have to be people of the same faith, but people who care about the same things and really, ~uh, ~try to make an impact.

[00:36:11] Shereen Shaker: I'm very grateful for the work and the journey that God has used me in, ~in my, ~in my career and in the jobs that ~I, ~I was exposed to. ~Uh, ~I don't know ~how, ~for how many years I can enjoy working and ~en enjoying what I'm doing and like ~liking my work. ~Um, ~but I know it's not by coincidence. I know that God puts us where we are because he has great plans and he has good things and that he wants to bring about Shalom.

[00:36:33] Shereen Shaker: And again, that whole mind boggling beauty, order and abundance never leaves my mind. But there's many, many more things about ~what, what, ~what does the Kingdom of God and the four chapters and how to bring restoration. To whatever problem or field you're in, there's so many things that we can practice in the workplace, ~um, ~that really makes it very, ~um, ~very, very special.

[00:36:52] Shereen Shaker: So I wanna encourage everybody who has a tough job. I have a very tough job. Some days are difficult. Some days there's issues, there are [00:37:00] problems, but ~I don't, ~I can't even start, you know, ~where, ~where should I start resolving it? ~Mm-hmm. ~Some days aren't, ~you know, ~a walk in the park. But again, in it all, I can just see God's hand, ~uh, ~moving.

[00:37:10] Shereen Shaker: And I can see myself growing into ~a, um, ~a more capable person who can impact ~the, the, ~the place ~I'm, um, ~I'm in. So I'm thankful, I'm grateful, I'm hopeful. ~Um, and ~I wanna encourage people ~to, um, ~to understand more about living our, calling the workplace to, ~you know, ~seek to become culture changers, culture makers.

[00:37:30] Shereen Shaker: So all these principles are so important and make such a huge, ~um, ~impact. ~Um, ~and will enable us to leave a legacy each in his own job with its own way and ~with, I mean, with, ~with a special ~Im, uh, ~imprint. ~So ~I wanna thank you all. I wanna thank you very much for today and for, ~uh, ~all the previous years of working together in such a fun way.

[00:37:47] Shereen Shaker: ~Uh, ~you guys are very special and, ~um, God will continue doing great things and thank you. ~Thank you for hosting me today.

[00:37:51] Hugh Brandt: Well, sheen, thank you for that powerful last word. ~You, ~you said so much ~in the, ~in your summary there. ~It was, ~it was powerful. Bob, do you wanna say anything before I ask you [00:38:00] to close us our time in prayer?

[00:38:02] Bob Varney: ~Uh, no. I just, uh, I, I, I agree with you. Uh, ~I really do appreciate ~the, ~the relationships that we've had, the relationship that we've had over the years, and, ~uh, ~the way you articulate, ~um. ~How you feel about that relationship, about the leadership circle, about what has happened ~and, ~and how you do your work. I mean, it's all wrapped up very, very nicely.

[00:38:17] Bob Varney: So, nicely done, nicely said. Thank you very much. ~Thank you. ~Thank you for sharing. Bob, will you close this then? ~Well, let me just pray. I, ~heavenly father, ~uh, ~you created us, ~uh, to, ~to work with you, to know you, ~uh, ~to have a relationship with you. ~And, ~and you've given us work to do. I mean, ~we have, uh, work, ~all of us have daily work of one kind or another.

[00:38:38] Bob Varney: And, ~uh, as, ~as we found through our research, ~um, ~there's only a very small percentage of people that work in the religion sphere, but the rest of us are all, ~uh, ~still working in your kingdom for you. ~Uh, so, so ~I pray ~that. ~That more and more people will get to understand that, that they will get the joy of knowing that, ~um, ~when we think about growing the kingdom, when we think about leading people to [00:39:00] Jesus, ~um, ~so much of it happens in the workplace.

[00:39:03] Bob Varney: We have so many opportunities ~to, ~to be an example to other people, ~uh, ~of who Jesus is and the kind of person and the kind of character traits that we need to have. We think of, ~uh, ~joy and peace and uplifting conversations. So many things we can do, ~uh, ~all of them just help people see that there's a Jesus in us.

[00:39:25] Bob Varney: So Father, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity we all have to be in the workplace to represent you. ~I, ~I thank you for Shereen. I thank you for the whole team in Cairo. ~Uh, ~of, ~uh, ~the work that they've been doing in the leadership circle, and therefore the work that they're doing out ~in, ~in their workplaces.

[00:39:41] Bob Varney: ~So thank you. I ask you to be with them. ~I ask you to be with Shereen, ~uh, ~as she's with, she's with her daughter, and enjoy the time and the safe travels back to Cairo. So father, thank you. Thank you for this time together. We ask your blessing. In Jesus name. Amen.

[00:39:56] Hugh Brandt: Well, thank you to all of our listeners for joining us on this sixth.

[00:39:59] Hugh Brandt: ~In the intersection, faith Work and Life podcast with Shereen Shaker. We ask you to go to our website, cities project global.com, or to LinkedIn or to the Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, and subscribe to our podcasts. And if you have found our podcasts helpful, please let us know through a review.~

[00:39:59] Hugh Brandt: [00:40:00] Thank you again, Shereen, for joining us today.

[00:40:03] Shereen Shaker: Thank you.