It's kind of amazing how blind I was to it before.

And I thought, wow, how many people drive by this,

myself included, something so small like that,

you know, it's not necessarily affecting the world,

but I know what it meant to them

that, you know, their voices weren't being heard.

There's so many people

that are going through something legitimate

and they deserve to be heard and they won't.

They won't ever be heard.

That's just the truth of the matter.

But there are a few of them that we can help,

you know, them be heard

and bring change to issues that should be changed.

- This is the Made to Advance podcast.

I'm your host, Brian Aulick.

We're here to inspire and equip you for your best future.

Well, welcome everybody.

It is so good to be with you today.

And before we get started, I wanna ask you a favor.

If you could rate and review Made to Advance,

that would be such a big help.

That helps us get the word out about the podcast,

and it also helps bring on more great guests

like the one we have today.

And by the way, we have an email for the podcast.

It's mta@ngettychurch.com.

And so if you've got thoughts, feedbacks, ideas,

boy, feel free to write in and let us know.

We'd love to hear from you.

But today I have on the show, Emily Scarlett with me.

Emily is a Michigan native

and a University of Michigan graduate

who has traveled the nation

as she developed her career in broadcast journalism.

Currently, Emily is an anchor on WZZM 13, On Your Side.

And I got to know Emily when she did a story

on "Ingetti Music" and I thought it would be really cool

to hear more of her journey.

Today, I am talking with a true pro.

And so welcome to the show, Emily.

- Thank you so much for having me.

- It is good to be with you.

Now we talked about this a little bit already,

but your show starts super, what, say again,

what time you're starting? - 4.30 in the morning.

- 4.30, you have been up for how long?

- 2 a.m. is when my second alarm goes off

that I know I'm like, okay, that's no more snoozing,

- Get up.

- When's your first alarm go off?

- 1.40, so I've got a strategic plan there.

I used to have like three different alarms,

a half hour apart, 15, but then it was getting

to the point where I'm like, okay,

this is just disrupting me.

So I have one warning, you know, alarm at 1.40 a.m.

2 a.m. I know, that's it, get up.

- What time do you go to bed then?

- Well, I try to wind down around 6, 7 a.m.

Six of it's a good night, and by wind down,

I mean, like, okay, in bed, no more devices,

because I do believe, you know,

if you're on your phone scrolling

or playing games on your phone, it does keep you up.

It keeps your mind going.

Like I've got to kind of start to shut it down.

I was having this conversation with someone the other day.

I feel kind of old school because incense,

not a lot of people use that,

but every now and then I will still,

I have some lavender incense.

That's really great to help me unwind.

And I have great white noise

that I'll put on my Bluetooth speakers.

I have different ways that I will help

to just sort of shut things off

so that I can go to sleep early.

Blackout shades are a must if you're a morning anchor.

- Do you, so on the weekends, I know you told me earlier,

like you're sleeping in, it's getting up at six.

What time is going to bed, like on a wild night,

you're like, I'm just gonna stay up?

- Well, it's so funny, I'm mostly a tea drinker,

but I tell people that I drink a lot of my coffee

on the weekends because that's when I'm really trying

to get that caffeine boost, stay up with the normal people,

as we say, so that's when I'll maybe try to like

get a nap in on Friday,

if I'm wanting to have a later night Friday,

because otherwise my body is used to,

because I try to be disciplined with that schedule,

you have to on this schedule.

So on the weekends, my body is still shutting down

around six, seven o'clock, I have to be strategic about,

okay, I need an espresso latte today,

I need a nap earlier so that I can try to hang out later.

- That is just a crazy life.

We'll talk more about the cost of broadcast journalism.

- It's a lifestyle choice, that's for sure.

- I need to say, straight off the bat,

thank you so much for the great story

you did on "A Getty Music."

It was, I knew by the kinds of questions you were asking

that I thought she is really, this is gonna be good.

- Thank you. - But then when I watched it,

I was really, I mean, I was truly taken aback

by how well you took the narrative all the way through.

And the song I think we were promoting that day

was "Still Do Miracles."

I told you how the building we're in was given to us for free.

And then you wove that in to the theme and I was like, I see what you did there.

I love that and appreciate that so much because I do consider my work when you

put together stories in that way,

a mixture of like putting a puzzle together and creating artwork at the same

time. And so I really appreciate that you found those little connections.

And I promise a lot of the times I find

it's not even planned.

As you're putting the story together,

those pieces just fit,

because it wasn't like I chose that song

for you all to have a part of the story,

and those pieces often just come together

the way they're supposed to,

so I appreciate you noticing that.

- So are you the one who then does,

like I was gonna ask,

I didn't wanna make it seem silly with like,

well, did somebody else do all that?

- No, it's a great question, yeah.

- But do you have a pretty,

I mean, are you the primary person

who weaves the narrative then?

- It's a combination.

So, you know, initially traditional journalism

or local TV broadcast news,

people are used to that, you know, anchor person

and then the reporter that has a photographer

with, you know, that reporter.

That's changed.

Like with most industries, you know,

you are expected to wear multiple hats.

So pretty much as I was getting into the industry,

and I'm sure we'll talk about my different stops

across the nation, as you mentioned,

but my first job, you know,

I was hired to anchor a new newscast

that they were adding to that particular station,

and I was supposed to do everything.

Anchor, produce the broadcast beforehand,

edit the video that needed to be in that broadcast.

So I got into it knowing that that was a requirement,

but getting back to answering your question.

At the station that I work at now, WZZM,

it's a combination.

And so you need to be prepared to do it all on your own,

but they're really great about managing

who do we have today, what story are you doing today,

will your story benefit from you having the photographer,

Or is it something that you can MMJ, as we say,

which stands for multiple media journalist.

MSP sometimes is used as well.

So, but anyway, that is what's expected these days

in journalism is that you can do it all on your own.

That particular day we had our chief photographer with me,

Doug Grievous, he's amazing.

So it kind of just depends.

Sometimes I'll go on my own and need to do all of the pieces

on my own.

That day I had a photographer with me

and he then will put all the footage into the system

and I still go in and grab all those puzzle pieces

and write and edit the story myself.

There are some photographers at the station

that we work with that insist on editing their work

because they, again, kind of see it as that puzzle

that they want to put together themselves,

especially after they were on the shoot

and they're kind of telling a story themselves

in their head.

So sometimes it's joint work where I might write the script

the photographer will go in and then edit it

with the pieces, or I'll do it on my own.

I'll go in, shoot it, write it, edit it.

So I hope that answers the question.

- Yeah, it does.

- 'Cause it can be a few different combinations.

- You have to be basically a jack of all trades.

- Absolutely.

- Yeah, that is why I had no idea that,

I mean, honestly, we'll get to this a little bit later,

but honestly, what great, good experience

to have that first job where you're having

to wear all the hats because it tees you up

for really your future work.

- Yeah, and that's what you get used to.

So when you get a little bit of help,

you're like, hey, this is amazing, thank you.

- Totally, yeah.

- That's what it felt like.

I remember when I first started in ministry

and you're like, my wife and I started this church.

And so back in the day, I mean, it's us.

We had a couple of other staff members part-time

and man, you just gotta do a lot of things.

- You're used to putting in all the work.

- So every time you get to hire someone,

you're like, "Oh my goodness, this is amazing.

I don't have to do all of the stuff anymore."

So it's- - Absolutely.

- Now I've got it.

Here's a question I've got to ask.

You guys, your team does amazing TikTok dances.

- Yes.

- And every time I see it, and I struggle so much.

I mean, my family, we tried to do it one time, one time,

and they all got it, and for whatever reason,

I cannot remember.

I'm good with narrative arcs, like telling a story.

And this is why preaching is good for me.

It's like telling a story.

But sequential details. - Remembering the steps

to the dance.

- It was a disaster.

I mean, I was very frustrated.

It was not the best side of myself.

You guys, I mean, how long does it take you

to put those together?

It's a common question that we get.

And sometimes, you know, in the morning,

one person will find, you know, the TikTok dance challenge,

like, hey, let's try this one.

Once we finished with the newscast

or our morning meetings for the day,

maybe 15, 20 minutes, depending on how challenging it is.

But I will say that Sam and I particularly,

our chief meteorologist, Samantha Jacks,

we both have had some dance experience in the past.

And I do think there's something that comes along

with this industry and this job,

where you do love to perform.

I think there are different aspects of that.

People are always like, oh, you must be,

public speaking must be so easy for you.

And that's not true.

You know, when you do a newscast,

it more so feels like this.

A couple people in the room, a few different cameras.

That's totally different from speaking

to a room full of people, you know?

But there are different aspects of it

that I do think combine.

And I do love to perform to a certain degree.

And so I never expected that TikTok dances

would be part of it.

but it resonates with a lot of people.

I think there are some people

that have never seen a newscast

and absolutely love our TikToks

or have never seen the TikToks and appreciate our newscast.

So I just appreciate the different reach

that we have with it.

- That makes a ton of sense and it humanizes you guys.

You're up there just doing your dance thing.

- And we're having fun, we really are.

- There's not one time I haven't watched,

I mean, it just draws you in.

I go, I wanna see this happen.

So now I'm gonna be super jealous

that you can pull it off that fast.

That's the next level.

- Some take longer than others.

(laughing)

- Well, tell me a little bit about your background.

I know I mentioned already you're a Michigan native,

but tell me a little bit about growing up

and how you discovered your passion for journalism.

- Absolutely, so I'm from the east side of the state,

Southfield, Michigan, it's a suburb of Detroit,

and I'm the youngest of three sisters.

My dad is originally from Jamaica,

and my mom is originally from the Detroit area.

So my family, they're all still there now,

we're super, super close.

Went to Southfield Public Schools,

And I tell people that journalism has secretly,

subtly been part of my life from the very beginning,

but I never really talked about wanting to do journalism.

For a lot of my life, I wanted to be a teacher.

My mom is a retired teacher from Detroit Public Schools

and my dad worked in the auto industry.

So for many, many years,

I was sure that I wanted to be a teacher.

And while I was in elementary school,

We had what I know to say still do in schools now, morning announcements.

I would typically take part in those.

Still never thought anything of it.

It was just kind of, "Hey, this is what you're going to do."

And I did it.

When I went to middle school, I was in one of my English classes or writing classes and

she's like, "Hey, you all have an assignment that I want everyone to do.

Write about this topic."

Just did what I was told as I was brought up to do.

And she's like, "Well, actually that was a competition.

I was choosing someone, Emily, you win.

By winning, you will now become the city's student columnist

for our city's newspaper.

I'm like, what?

I didn't even know I was signing up for this.

You know, winning meant that I actually had

a lot more work to do on top of my other schoolwork.

Still, never thought anything of, hey,

maybe this is something I could do as a career.

I went on to do that for two years,

but continued to say that I wanted to be a teacher.

- Did you find yourself really enjoying the work,

even though you didn't kind of expect to,

You know, you didn't know you were signing up for that.

- Honestly, I can't say that I did

because the type of person,

and it wasn't that I didn't enjoy it.

It's just to explain the type of person

that I was at that time,

it was you do what you're told.

You know, I was supposed to perform well in school.

That was another assignment that was given to me

and I took it on.

It, I really didn't even get a chance to analyze

what it meant or what it could mean for me,

you know, until looking back on it.

A little, for a little bit,

I switched over to saying I wanted to go into law.

- Okay.

but honestly just felt so defeated by the idea

of how much change is needed in our country, in our world.

And I'm like, can you really even tackle

something like that?

So I can't say what it was,

but I know that as I started to apply for college

and I knew for a long time that I wanted to go

to the University of Michigan,

something said, why don't you try news broadcasting?

And I, to this day, don't really know what that voice was,

but I'm so glad that I followed it.

- Wow, so that was before even you entered Michigan.

So you started with a journalism track right from the jump

when you came to college.

- So senior year of high school

as we're going through that application process.

And honestly, I think I always knew that college was my track

but I don't think I knew that at that point

you had to choose right then, okay,

what is it that you're gonna study and pursue

before even getting to the school?

So I'm like, okay, well, I've gotta choose something

for whatever reason I was led in that direction.

Do I recall reading or hearing that you and your sisters

used to pretend like doing new shows or something?

- Yes, that's right.

I can't believe that I forgot about that,

but that was part of our play.

And even with that, I still don't think

that I ever thought about it as a career,

but yes, I have sisters and cousins

that remember us doing this.

And I don't even remember how we would come up

with the stories, but we would set ourselves up

in our basement or bedroom and put on these newscasts.

I have no idea what it was we would talk about,

But those cousins would later come to me and say,

I can't believe you're doing this as a career now.

And this was a game for us back in the day.

So I forgot about that, but yes, that is true.

- Well, it's cool hearing that because one of the kind

of just assumptions I have about our own journeys

is that there are these clues that are in our growing up.

And I think a lot of them are actually

from when we're quite young.

And I think part of the journey of getting older

is kind of being able to discern

what these different clues point to.

There's a book called "Let Your Life Speak"

by a guy named Parker Palmer.

And he developed this idea for me,

and I end up, a lot of times, well, I'll give this,

it's a little book to college students and whatnot.

But I look back, and same thing,

my whole life I wanted to be in the business world.

And then I look back now when I finally realized

that I was supposed to do what I'm doing now.

- Your true path.

- And, but I go, oh, clue, clue, clue, clue.

- Even though you didn't see it as that at the time.

- Didn't see it, I mean, if you would have said that to me,

I would have thought, are you crazy?

That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard.

I don't know, honestly.

But yeah, I just think it's a good point of encouragement

to those who are listening to really be paying attention

to the early years and try to discern.

The tough thing is it's usually only as you take steps,

you got a clear, and I actually did too,

a very clear kind of almost revelation of sorts

of this is what you're supposed to be doing.

And it's not always that clear for folks.

And so it becomes this journey of trying to like try stuff

and then reflect on where you've come from

and try to put the clues together.

And a lot of times it's a little bit more

of a detective work than what you and I probably experienced.

- Yes, and when I speak to young people now,

I say that, you know, I don't know

that it could be any clearer for me.

You know, it is in hindsight,

but I always encourage young people to just do your best.

It's okay that you don't know right now, you know?

But once you know, as long as you've been putting

your best foot forward this entire time, you'll be ready.

Once it comes to light, you'll be ready

as long as at all times, you're doing your very best.

And it's okay if you don't know right now.

- That's a great word, and I think it's a good transition

too to just how your career journey then started to unfold.

So you go to U of M, go blue, and the funny thing is,

I know, I think, if I understand this right,

your first job was in Lansing, which is somewhat new.

I mean, it wasn't East Lansing,

but you kind of walked to the dark side on that.

And I remember being there for Michigan-Michigan State game

and came outside and my car was covered in green powder

'cause I think my license plate maybe had like a Michigan

you know, thing around it

that they knew I was a Michigan fan.

So yeah, not great times.

But yes, I always start off by saying

that I was sort of encouraged to go to the university.

I say encouraged or brainwashed sometimes

to go to the University of Michigan.

It started with my fourth grade class.

My teacher, she would always play the Michigan fight song.

There was Michigan memorabilia all over the classroom.

And she really just put us in this mindset

that not only is college after high school,

U of M is after high school.

And I tell you that at least half of that fourth grade

class, we did meet up again at Michigan.

Many, I wasn't the only student in the class

to get that message.

- Wow, shout out elementary teachers with influence.

How about that?

- Yes, and I appreciate it because I do think

It was such an amazing and important part of my journey.

But I also tell young people now,

don't let people steer you.

I think that worked out great in my favor

and I wouldn't do it any differently,

but don't let people steer you.

It's your journey, go there, find out is it for you?

Because that's the life that we live

where it's like you grow up

and your dad's favorite football team

is your favorite football team,

or your brother's favorite college football team

is your favorite college football team.

and then you think, oh, well that should be

where I go to school, and it isn't necessarily.

I love U of M and I wouldn't do anything differently,

but I tell people, make your own choice

because it is your life.

You might have those messages steering you one way,

but does that necessarily mean it's the right thing for you?

We grew up watching these movies that New York City

is just the place to be.

Now I know, it's great to visit.

I don't think I could ever live in New York City.

- Yeah, that's a really good word,

and I think that so many of us,

especially when you're young, there are many people

that are still trying to get, in a sense,

mom and dad's approval.

Not that it's, of course, we all want our parents

to be proud of us, but we really have to have

our identity built apart from their approval

because we've gotta make those decisions

that are in line with really what's put in us.

So tell me about then, kind of your career journey

that brings you to today.

I mean, you've kind of hopped around different places.

What's it look like?

How'd that unfold?

- Yeah, absolutely.

So starting with applying to the University of Michigan,

U of M doesn't have a journalism program.

And so many times with this career,

when you're applying to jobs, they're letting you know,

they usually want people with either a journalism degree

or communications degree.

So I went the communications route.

You're kind of mixed in all together

with people pursuing journalism, marketing, PR,

and it was a great wealth of information.

You realize shortly in that you've got to get

that internship experience as well.

So the job applications that you see,

they're first gonna be looking for that journalism

or communications degree,

and then that you've got some sort of experience

that you really can't get anywhere else,

but an internship to start before you get a job.

A lot of colleges also have a lot of great journalism

programs outside of whether you can get your degree there

or not, but that allow you to practice with those newscasts.

They might have a show that they're putting on on the campus.

I would strongly encourage students that are interested

in journalism to pursue that.

what opportunities are available on campus

for you to get that hands-on experience?

I went the route of just starting with internships,

and I always like to play a fun game

with people asking how much do you think I made

or earned for that internship?

You wanna guess?

- I'm gonna say, because you're not old,

but you're old enough, that I would say,

I'm gonna guess you work for free.

- Bingo, you got it.

- These days you do hear some paid internships,

and I'm like, where were those

when I was looking for internships.

- Exactly.

And when I played this game with kids,

I always get like $500 or two.

And I'm like, close, close, but keep going down.

So yeah, $0, but I can't say you did it for nothing.

Of course you get a college credit for it,

which is, you know, very important in its own.

The internship that I did, that particular station,

which was in Detroit, fabulous station,

made great connections there.

But that particular station was unionized,

which meant we could not touch any of the equipment.

Hard to get hands-on experience

when you can't touch any of the equipment.

It was someone there at the station who said,

"You wanna try to find a public access station

because that's really gonna give you

a lot of hands-on experience."

I found that in Lansing.

And so that's how I made it there.

So they had a public access station, Home TV,

which I think is an amazing opportunity

to give you that hands-on experience.

You start in all different areas of the newsroom

and the news station where you're working the audio board,

you're learning to work the cameras,

you're doing interviews, you're practicing anchoring,

you're getting that camera experience in the field

as well as in the studio.

So amazing, amazing experience.

And it was from that internship

that I was in the Lansing area.

I also did two years of radio.

That was my actual paid job at the time,

but I was actually paying them to work there

with how little I was making.

But you know, it was part of the process.

I think that people see this job and they think,

oh, it's so glamorous.

Oh, you're having such a great time.

you must make so much money, not at all.

You know, maybe you've heard this by now,

but no, it's definitely not as glamorous as it seems.

Does someone maybe recognize you every now and then

in the store?

Yes.

Do you always necessarily want that?

No.

So it has its, you know, aspects that people might assume,

you know, that are there,

but you definitely don't start out making a lot of money.

After my internships doing a couple of years in radio,

doing that internship in Lansing.

I was finally offered my first television broadcasting gig

in Montana, which if you're familiar

with the journalism industry,

the televisions are ranked in what are called markets.

And so it's kind of based on city size

in terms of New York City being number one

and Chicago being up there and LA,

what we consider some of our largest cities.

Of course, in Great Falls, Montana,

this is a small market.

You know, and that you learn that early on,

at least the way it was kind of back in the days,

that if you wanted to get your start in this industry,

you're likely gonna have to start in the middle of nowhere.

It's not so much like that anymore.

But I started in Gray Falls, Montana at a station there.

They were an ABC affiliate,

but we're starting a new Fox newscast at 9 p.m.

that they asked me to anchor Monday through Friday.

And as I mentioned,

that entailed doing everything for that newscast,

producing it, editing the video for it,

setting up, you know,

the different stories that were running in it.

And it was a great experience.

I stayed there for two years. - How many hours a week

are you putting in at that time, would you say?

Is it just a normal full-time job?

- Yeah, normal full-time job.

That was one of the few times that I worked nightside

in the industry, so when people always ask me

about my early morning hours, I say most times,

working as a news anchor is kind of one end

of the spectrum or the other.

Really super early in the morning,

or leaving work around 11 p.m., midnight.

- Okay, gotcha.

- I kind of prefer early mornings, honestly,

'cause with that schedule, at first I'm like,

"Oh, starting work at 2 p.m., this is great."

You know, I was waking up early,

working out a little bit, getting my errands done.

And that eventually changed to me waking up

right before I needed to get to work,

running late, getting there,

and then you leave work when it's dark out,

everything's closed, and so--

- And everybody's, you know,

you can't hang out with anybody in the evening.

- Exactly, everyone's already kind of winding down

for the day, so it's whatever your choice is,

but it's kind of one end or the other.

Spent a couple years in Montana,

and then moved to the Quad Cities,

which is the border of Illinois and Iowa.

So there I worked as a morning anchor,

and I will say that I was just chatting

with some colleagues earlier that my first internship

that I mentioned in Detroit, coincidentally, was mornings.

And again, one of those signs that I didn't know

was a sign at the time that it was really kind of

setting me up to be comfortable with that schedule.

I was a college student working at 3.30 in the morning

during my summer vacation.

but it set me up to feel comfortable

and at ease with that schedule.

So, in the Quad Cities, I was again working

as a morning anchor.

I would come in at midnight at that point

because still I needed to produce the show

and then anchor it.

So I spent three years there

and then took a weekend anchor position

in Columbia, South Carolina.

All the while, as I mentioned, those markets,

trying to climb up to bigger cities.

- Yeah, that's what I wonder if it's driving it.

Each time you're getting an opportunity to bigger cities.

That's really what is pushing you

to take the next step.

- Exactly, so two years in Montana,

three years in the Quad Cities,

four years in South Carolina.

And at that point, I've kind of spent some time

in the industry sort of seeing how things work out.

And I realized, hey, maybe you'll get back to Michigan,

maybe not, and I kind of started to accept that realization.

And by the grace of God,

an opportunity opened up in Grand Rapids.

I couldn't believe it when I got an email back

from the news director.

I remember sending a screenshot to my family

in our group text messages, and we were all just so excited.

- Yeah, excited at that point that you got the job

or that there was an opportunity.

- Just the possibility that I could be coming back

to Michigan, I'd still be two hours away from them,

but just the possibility, because again,

I think my entire family had accepted

that that might not be the case.

- Sure, well, I don't know,

you probably can't go public on this point,

but I'll tell you what, a lot of people

that spent time on the East Side

and even grew up on the East Side,

end up saying, "There's a lot we appreciate

"about the West Side, so I'm not gonna make you

"pick a side though."

- Right, I've heard West Side is the best side.

I've heard the phrase, I've heard the phrase.

But what I always say to people,

because Detroit has a reputation,

really anywhere you go in the country,

but what I always say to people is, home is home.

Anybody can relate to hearing that, and so I love home.

- Well, and Detroit has changed so much.

I mean, it's really, really cool

what's happening in Detroit.

I love, we've got friends there,

we have churches we support in Detroit.

- Yeah, a lot of development.

- It's amazing, yeah.

- Downtown area is growing so much.

I haven't even really had a lot of time to spend down there,

but I've seen the growth.

You can see the change and even how people are spending

their time in the downtown area, and so it's great to see.

- What do you feel like when you look back

on your career to date, what do you feel like

is the most personally significant thing to you

about your journey, about what you get to do?

- Personally significant, hmm.

I think that, you know, recognizing the role

that we play in telling stories for the world.

You know, I'm a big documentary fan, right?

And just recognizing the role that we play

in any significant story that you're needing to go back on,

You really can't tell that story without going to the news.

Hey, what archives do you have on this

when this story was being told?

Sure, there are other ways to tell it,

but I do really see us and take pride in us

being the history keepers,

the record keepers of what's happening here.

And some people do that well, some people don't.

There's a lot of in-between in there,

but I know a lot of people take that seriously

and take a lot of pride in that, and I'm one of them.

Do you look back on stories you've covered

or experiences you've had to date?

And does anyone stand out as,

man, I will never forget that moment

when I got to cover that story?

- Absolutely, I do have a chance to think about this a bit

just because you all sent me the questions beforehand.

If I hadn't, I'd probably be sitting here thinking,

oh, what should I pull to?

Because it took me a while to think about that

in terms of my greatest challenge with the story

or what was the hardest story that I've ever worked on.

But I will say the hardest story that I think was

like a reality check for me was in Columbia, South Carolina,

even though this story can be told anywhere,

and I've realized that since,

was it was a story about the unhoused community

or homeless community.

And, you know, the person who was bringing the story

to my attention was saying,

"Hey, they're living among us and you may not even know it."

So when he told me to meet him in this particular location

that was like near a Walmart,

which we know where Walmarts are placed,

this is usually like a well-trafficked area.

It wasn't like we had to drive off to some, you know,

remote, middle of nowhere, hidden place.

No, this was like in the middle of a busy highway.

We stepped off to the side behind some trees

and there were like six tents where people were living.

And I thought, wow, how many people drive by this,

myself included, and have no idea of what's happening right there.

You know, like I said, you don't have to drive far to see it.

And since I've done that story, I see them now.

It's so, it's kind of amazing how blind I was to it before, but even here in West

Michigan, once those trees start to lose their leaves, you notice the tents that

are along the highway or just in grassy wooded areas, again, not necessarily in

remote areas, they're right in the middle of the city.

But that was just such an eye opener to me

that I could have continued to just drive past every day.

I'm glad that someone opened my eyes to that.

You know, among us, I wish that there was more

that I could do, there's a lot more work to be done.

- Yeah, but you, I mean, it is, you get to shine a light

on important stories like that, which is a big deal.

Is there one particular story, I mean,

maybe you would call, you would say that story is it,

that you're most proud of?

Again, in Columbia, South Carolina,

because I will say that's where I did the most

of my field reporting,

where I really kind of got to work with the community

and tell different stories in that way.

My other jobs have been primarily anchoring,

but in Columbia, South Carolina, I did more reporting.

And there was a bridge.

This was kind of a remote, smaller rural town.

And community had reached out to us to say,

"Hey, they've had this bridge closed for five years now.

"We're having to drive around and make a 30-minute detour

for what should be a 10-minute drive just because they haven't opened this bridge.

I get there, it's like, you know, again, just a small residential street, nothing anyone

else would really think of besides this community being affected by the bridge.

But just our small story, getting the word out and being able to contact the people who

could make a change, I can't remember how long it took, but within months that bridge

was reopened.

And just the reaction from them, how appreciative they were.

And I saw, we did the drive to see what that detour, you know, how much time it was adding

to their commute.

So something so small like that to, you know, it's not necessarily affecting the world,

but I know what it meant to them that, you know, their voices weren't being heard and

we helped them with that.

And you spoke about like the importance of our job.

That is the importance of our job.

There are so many people that are going through something legitimate and they deserve to be

and they won't, they won't ever be heard.

That's just the truth of the matter.

But there are a few of them that we can help,

you know, them be heard and bring change

to issues that should be changed.

And I do take that seriously.

- That's what feels like it would be super rewarding

about your work because, and all the time,

not only will I read stories about certain issues,

but then I'll read stories about how the stories

made a difference, how somebody saw it

and gave money away or started volunteering

or made connections between,

hey, I run an organization that does this,

maybe we could link up.

And I just think that's a really powerful opportunity.

- It is.

I was having a conversation with my dad about that

the other day because people always say,

oh, the news is so depressing.

I just can't even go there.

But I promise you that there is a lot of negative

that comes with the stories that we tell.

But the positive always outweighs the negative.

even when you've got a terrible story,

you know, people don't always necessarily,

and sometimes we do try to share the updates

and the follow-ups, but people don't always necessarily

see the emails that we get in the aftermath to say,

"Hey, I saw the hard time that that person

"or family is going through, what can I do to help?"

Or, "I already know how I can help,

"I'm gonna donate this, this, and that."

The positive always outweighs the negative.

- Yeah, that's really cool.

Well, I'm gonna flip the script then.

So, that was asking about the most significant stories.

Now, once in a while on my Instagram feed,

I will get like news anchor, you know,

biffs and you know, mistakes and bloopers and all that.

And I mean, some of them I am laughing to tears

like when I see these things.

So I would be curious,

you can take this whatever direction you want.

Either A, a story that you were involved in

that you were on site thinking,

I just cannot believe that I'm talking about this right now.

It's so goofy, but it's what we're doing.

Or you can say some behind the scenes thing

that you, it's just stands out as like, I mean,

as a person who speaks a lot,

I've got a few key moments where I can tell you

of bloopers of stuff I've said that you're like,

oh my goodness.

So you can take it either a personal kind of,

or a behind the scenes moment that was really funny

or a story you had to cover or both.

- Oh man, I wish I could think of that like great moment,

but you know, bloopers happen every day,

you know what I mean?

And we try to capture those moments, but we're not perfect.

I mean, every day there's something weird happening

or we're even coming back from commercial break

still laughing from what we were discussing in the break.

And then there's this terrible story

we're needing to talk about

and we've got a smirk on our face.

So I wish I could think of that great example for you,

but I mean, bloopers happen all day, every day with us.

- Was that ever hard for you to have a blooper on camera

and not let it get in your head

or were you so good from the jump on?

That's just part of the business, gotta move on.

- Oh no, it still gets in my head.

What I've worked on is telling myself to let it go.

I mean, it's really hard not to bring work home with you,

like, oh, I could have said this better,

I could have done that better,

or oh, this mistake happened and you just can't let it go.

I mean, I've had to condition myself

and I'm still working on it to just let it go.

- Well, that's a really, I mean,

I feel like that's a really encouraging thing to say

no matter what somebody's doing,

whether it be a hobby or a passion they're involved with

or their occupation, is this idea of embracing risk,

embracing failure, learning from it,

but not letting you beat yourself up.

I mean, I deal with that all the time,

where the whole woulda, coulda, shoulda thing,

and you just think, gosh, if I woulda just said this

or said it better, or I forgot something,

and that just, it makes me crazy.

But of course, then you get paralyzed by your failures.

- Right, and I do try to tell newer, younger people

And I mean, it's much easier said than done.

Certainly we can all relate to that.

But at the end of the day, there is no what if.

You can't go back, right?

So you've got to let it go as hard as that may be.

Whether it was a mistake that you made,

that comment someone left you,

that's certainly always something we take home with us.

But as much as you can, just let it go.

'Cause there's really nothing else you can do with it.

- Yeah, and yeah, so you're just setting yourself back

by getting fixated on it.

It's an interesting question.

you've been doing what you've been doing now

for a long time.

What are ways that you find yourself growing today

or how do you try to grow yourself?

How do you try to get better?

Like this is a good angle that you're even talking about

if I'm still having to let things go and not obsess.

But what other ways do you find yourself growing

after doing what you've been doing as long as you have?

- Absolutely, especially having worked in different states,

different newsrooms, you know,

and many people can relate to this.

Anytime you're taking on a different job,

it's like working with a different group of people

that you've now got to gel with, right?

So I think those are the ways that I'm trying to improve

upon myself each day.

It's like, how am I being a better colleague?

There are times, and I talk to young people about this too,

it's like, it's not just young that you get frustrated

or you don't like people or you have a bad day, right?

That you want to just kind of lose it.

But I think that's part of adulting and being professional

is like, okay, I wanna say all this, this, this, and this,

but then sometimes that sits with me too.

I get home and I'm like, was that really my best self in that moment?

As I get older, I'm able to kind of think that through before it comes out of my mouth

and say, "Hmm, will you regret that later?

Probably.

So what's the best way that I can address this?"

And I tell people this, that doesn't mean you have to just swallow it all in and let

it sit.

You can still address your issue, but how can you address that without regretting your

actions later?

Yeah, that's really good.

Do you find that the team that you work with overall,

is there a culture of being able to kind of be able to say,

hey, this was tough for me?

Or is it like, man, that it's, I mean,

sometimes a culture makes that easier than others.

So yeah, is that easy to do in the team?

- I always say people who say,

oh, I'm great at accepting constructive criticism.

I love constructive, liars, liars, that's what I call them.

I feel like that never gets easier.

It's never easy to hear you're doing something wrong.

You could be doing this better,

whether it's coming from a partner, your mom,

you know, it's never easy to hear that.

So no, I don't think that that ever really gets easier,

but I do think that's part of being professional.

And again, it comes with that,

okay, how can I best react to that?

And almost having that thought process now in the moment,

that you're not regretting those decisions to say,

okay, well, this is the conversation I have with myself.

Is this person really looking out for me?

Does this person really have my best interests

when they give me this constructive criticism?

Or do I feel there are ulterior motives?

If I truly feel that person really is just wanting

to make sure I don't make that mistake again,

which is something I've grown to appreciate.

You know, we make mistakes.

None of us are perfect.

Even being in the news world doesn't mean

that I know every grammatical rule there is,

or that I know everything going on in the world.

So we make mistakes, and I've grown to appreciate

people saying, "Hey, by the way, it's pronounced this way,"

or, "Hey, by the way, you don't say it this way,"

or whatever that may be.

My mom, she's kind of one of my main constructive criticism.

- As a former teacher,

I'm guessing she's not teaching anymore.

- Exactly, right.

Yeah, she's retired.

- She's gonna keep an eye on you.

- Exactly, but I've grown to appreciate it

coming from a good place.

I know for my mom, it certainly is.

- Yeah, it's funny how many times

when we're talking with our kids

about things they're navigating with fellow classmates

and whatnot, people they work with at their jobs.

Just I'll say to them,

hey, what you guys are dealing with right now

with like that student,

and this is since they were little, trust me.

I'm working with adults. - Still dealing with it.

- I'm still having the same conversation.

So it really is, it's a great idea to be using

wherever we're at right now, in school,

early part of our career, whatever,

use those moments as training ground

because those kinds of challenges never go away.

And I love what you said about, I mean,

the muscle of both speaking one's mind

in an appropriate way and letting people know

where you have a frustration or a concern

or a sea of growth, that is on the one hand,

one muscle to develop that's hard to do.

It's so hard for people to just, one, to say anything,

And then two, to say it like you're talking about

in a way that you don't regret

and is best for them to hear.

But then also the receiving side,

I just so appreciate that you said that

because the truth of the matter is,

many of us, some of our best places of growth

are gonna come from people who have the courage to speak up.

- Exactly, you know, it's like that person,

maybe you would have felt better

that the person never corrected you, right?

But then how do you feel five years later when someone does

and you're like, I've been saying it wrong all this time.

So, you know, just appreciating that aspect of it.

I would prefer to be doing it the right way.

And think about it yourself, you know,

if you hear someone say something the wrong way,

and it's like, you know,

and it's just easier for me to go about my day.

Someone stopping to make sure you're doing it correctly,

they are actually looking out for you.

They don't even have to waste the time

or risk your wrath of not wanting the feedback, right?

- Yeah, that's exactly right.

I'd be curious when you think about your journey to date,

what are some of the biggest challenges you've had to face

or sacrifices you've had to make?

You don't just, I mean, obviously some of it

is moving around and being willing to do that,

but you don't just show up.

And would we be considered here in West Michigan

a mid-market?

Is this, I don't know what--

- Yeah, I mean, it's top 50, so I'll give it that.

Yeah, and--

- So, you know, you don't show up at a top 50

in a top 50 market by accident,

but yeah, talk about some of the sacrifices

or challenges you've had to overcome

to get to the place you are.

- Yes, absolutely.

You know, it's so funny because looking back

when I accepted the job in Great Falls, Montana,

my mind today is like, what the heck were you thinking?

You had no idea what you were walking into,

but I was so hungry for the opportunity.

I didn't think twice.

It was like, hey, they're offering me an anchoring position.

I'm going for it, you know?

So all of it, it's a lifestyle choice.

We talked about that before we started for sure.

Making those choices to travel around the country.

Moving isn't easy,

let alone having to do it cross country.

The shift that I work, I mean,

you have to find people that are understanding of that,

that, hey, I work a job that's 24/7,

regardless of what my hours are,

at any point I could be needed.

So people in healthcare, you know,

maybe can understand that as well.

But yeah, having to go to bed at six o'clock

on the weekdays, or, you know,

even feeling tired on the weekends at that time,

It's all a lifestyle choice that is somewhat of a sacrifice

to your personal life and having other people

that can understand.

I've got a different setup than most people you talk to.

- Do you ever regret the cost

or is it that you're so excited about what you do

that you don't even think about the cost?

- Yeah, no regrets, no regrets whatsoever.

Every day I really am so thankful for what I do.

Like I don't take it for granted.

And I think having to move around every couple of years,

you kind of can, you know,

I haven't been in the same place for a long amount of time.

So it still feels new to me.

I'm still so thankful.

I can't believe I made it back to Michigan.

We're going on four years in May

and that's how excited I still am about it.

So, you know, not just being in Michigan,

but I'm so thankful.

I learned with the different experiences

that you go through this whole interview process

and then the weeks of waiting to find out

if you're gonna get the job, you know,

you used to have to fly out to different stations

There's this long, drawn-out process.

And then you get there and realize you don't even like the people you work with.

Not saying that that was my particular case, but there's so much that goes into these moves.

And I am so thankful that I have this amazing team that I work with at WZZM.

And I'm not just saying that.

I mean, what you all see in those TikTok videos, we truly do enjoy each other's company.

And I know that you don't just walk into that anywhere.

So I'm so thankful that not only did I make it back to Michigan, but I'm in a place where

I'm happy.

- Do you end up having to think much about the tension

between in the modern media landscape,

I mean, things are getting so fragmented

and obviously social media is a whole thing,

all the different places people are finding news.

Is that something you have to think about much

or do you go, "Oh, that's something the corporate people

"are figuring out how we're gonna deal with the fact

"that mainstream media is not got the same cachet

"as it once had."

- Oh, it's very much a part of our conversations

in the newsroom now.

Like we know the industry is changing

and people are constantly thinking about,

hey, how do we keep up with that?

Because I was just saying earlier

when we were doing our makeup,

I don't think it's that people don't need this information.

As you said, they're getting it from different places.

And a lot of people think,

oh, local news is just for old people.

But even that, I don't think that's the case.

It's just as you get older,

you know, the things you didn't care about

at that city council meeting,

now you're kind of like,

"Mate, maybe I do kind of need to hear that.

I'm a homeowner in this town

or I've got a kid in that school.

maybe I do care about what's being said

at that school board meeting

that I didn't care about 20 years ago.

So I think this information will always be necessary

and information that people seek out.

But yes, they're getting it in different ways

and it's just how do we fit into that?

And it's very much a part of our conversation.

- How have you had to adjust

or how have you seen what you do change over the years

as this has taken place?

- A major focus shift to streaming,

to streaming because that's where people are going, right?

It's not so much like your traditional television.

People are getting rid of cable.

People definitely are not necessarily...

Well, some people now are relying back on the antennas now because cable is getting

so expensive.

But people are just finding different ways to be able to get that entertainment.

And so we are having to adjust to that.

How can we then be in front of people in the ways that they're seeking?

But even that streaming, there's so much that goes along with that because you now are running

your own station.

and then you then need like 24 hours of content

to keep that going.

So it's a whole new avenue

that we're constantly trying to navigate now.

- I think I read an article the other day

and I might be misquoting this,

so we'll hope that I'm right.

Unlike you guys, I will not be doing a correction afterwards

but I think I read the other day

that YouTube is now the biggest provider of news above,

maybe it was just TV content.

That would make more sense to me.

Do you know who the biggest,

where people are primarily getting their news from now?

- I don't.

I don't, I can't say for sure.

I don't wanna say, but I,

'cause actually we just had a meeting

where there was a chart of this.

And my manager at the time was saying,

you'd be surprised that TV is still on the list.

So I don't wanna say that it's been wiped out completely,

but there's just so much more on the list now,

whether it's streaming, whether it's social media.

I mean, you'll hear people say,

I caught highlights from the presidential address

last night on TikTok.

You know, and there's nothing wrong with that

depending on the sources that you're relying on.

But just to say, like, that's how much it's changing.

People aren't sitting down at the dinner table

like I did with my family at 6 p.m.

turning on that small TV.

- Well, and it goes to show you,

and I think this is true for anybody's journey,

virtually in any career, there is constant evolution.

There's a constant need to learn.

You can't have a mentality of I'm locked in,

I figured it out, I do my thing.

Even for a job like pastoring,

which I feel like in many cases you'd say,

I mean, that feels like over time,

that's gonna be kind of mostly the same thing.

Well, on the one hand, it is.

On the other hand, even us having this conversation

in this format, some number of years ago,

people would have never imagined this is happening.

So it's just this constant idea

of meeting people where they're at,

and it's all about serving them.

- And I'm one that doesn't take will to change.

I think a lot of people can relate to that.

And I'm realizing, I'm learning, you've got to get over that.

Whether it's at work or just in life in general,

life is ever-changing.

Things change, and that's just what it is.

There was a great show that I watched.

I'm not going to remember what the show was.

But this particular show was showing the different decades.

I can't remember why.

But there was an immortal figure that

was meeting back up every decade with this person.

But it was so amazing to see they were showing like,

yeah, 1940, 1950.

My point is, there wasn't much change

until you get to around 1980.

But 1980 to 1990 to 2000,

if you think about how much our world has changed,

and I hope that I'm making my point clear,

from early 1900s to 1950s,

Yes, there were changes, but maybe not at the same speed

of how we're seeing technology change now.

I'll give you another example.

VHS tapes were around for a long time.

And I remember, 'cause my family had a huge collection

of VHS tapes.

When it switched to DVDs, we're thinking,

we gotta start all over again with this collection.

DVDs didn't even stick around that long.

- Yeah, that's a great point.

- You know what I mean?

And so that's how quickly technology is changing.

You can't be resistant to change.

this world is just ever-changing.

I was just getting used to Facebook,

now there's six other social media sites.

- Well, and we'll move on to this question in just a second,

but I'll tell you as a person of faith,

for me, part of what's helpful for me

in adjusting to and adapting to change

is just I think faith is such a helpful thing

'cause I feel like any time you're stepping into change,

by definition, you're stepping into a place you haven't been

and I think the whole journey like in the Bible

meeting people is encouraging them to take a step, and oftentimes into a place they haven't

been before, and trusting Him that they'll be okay.

Out of their comfort zone.

Yeah, and in our human nature, that's exactly right.

We wanna control, we wanna be comfortable, and it's so hard in those moments.

And so I like that picture of almost open-handedness, physically open-handedness.

"Okay, God, here's my life, and here's my journey, and I'm gonna quit clutching and

clinging to comfort and control, and I'm gonna try to step into this thing and see what happens."

to accept that with the journey.

I never asked to be in Great Falls, Montana.

You know what I mean?

I never knew about the Quad Cities

to have wanted that to be a part of my path.

I'm so thankful for each and every one of those steps.

And after the first couple ones,

I did have my hands open like,

okay, God, show me where this path is leading me

because I obviously have no control over it.

And thankfully, here I am sitting in Michigan.

- Yeah, well, we're glad you're here.

Tell me about this.

I know just before we started talking here,

I said, is it cool if I ask about your faith background?

I know nothing about your faith background.

I just knew that when you were here with us

doing the story, I thought, "She is really good."

And then I watched the story and I thought,

"She's even better than I realized

when we were sitting there doing the original capture."

But yeah, just be fun to hear a little bit

about your faith background.

- Yeah, absolutely.

Both my parents were raised in the church.

Now, I told you my dad was born and raised in Jamaica.

He didn't come to the US until he was like 30.

So that was very much his upbringing.

And I understand that he was raised

in a Catholic-type school setting,

in church every week with his family.

Same with my mom, I'm not exactly sure of the denomination,

but in church every Sunday-type family.

They did not raise us that way.

We were not in church every Sunday.

And so they really allowed us the freedom

to seek out that information in whatever way we wanted to.

I kinda started that journey on my own in middle school.

I started to go to a church with one of my friends,

maybe in like sixth grade.

So I just started to explore it for myself.

When I was in college at U of M,

there was a Bible study that my sister

and I would go to regularly.

She was there at the school with me, thankfully.

And so we would go to that Bible study regularly

and attend the church of that Bible study

pretty much every Sunday.

So, through my own journey,

I've become more of a spiritual person, I would say,

more so than religious, but I'm thankful

that my parents sort of allowed us

to choose that journey for ourselves.

And I don't even know if that was their idea,

you know, in the beginning, but that's been my path.

- Do you guys end up talking about spiritual things

as a family much, or does it not come up?

It's interesting, 'cause it sounds like you've been,

you've probably been slightly more bent

in the direction of exploring spiritual things

than maybe, I don't know if you,

I was gonna say, maybe than your parents were,

but who knows, maybe they were actually full on,

but they just didn't kind of let you guys

into that part of their--

- Right, I think in the sense

that they weren't given a choice.

I don't think it was like,

hey, you're gonna be here on this day,

you're gonna go there on this day.

And so, we don't really talk about it much.

My dad will often reference stories in the Bible

and it's part of our conversation,

but he's trying to relate it to real world things.

So, it's not something that we talk about

that I guess necessarily guides our conversations,

but like I said, it comes up with my dad regularly,

but it's not necessarily leading our conversations.

- Yeah, that makes sense.

Do you find that faith themes or God come up much

when you're doing stories?

Does that come up in your own mind or in the story?

I guess either way.

- Oh, many times it's coming up more so

from the subject, talking about how God has played into

whatever is happening with them.

And we don't shy away from including that

because so many people can relate to

that being at the forefront of what's leading their lives

or maybe what's happening in their lives.

And so I do feel that that's still just a commonality

amongst people that is still pretty prevalent among people.

But I will say growing up, it was like sort of taboo to say,

"Oh, our family doesn't go to church every Sunday."

And I've noticed that that has changed

in the last few years where people are more accepting

of people having their own journey.

You know, I do feel that,

I tell people that I'm of the religion

of being a good person just because I feel

it has driven people so much that for some people,

I feel they've gotten away from maybe

what the original purpose was.

So I wish that more of us would just sort of gravitate

to well, are you doing what feels right?

I like to treat people the way I wanna be treated

and I just naturally want to see people do well.

I don't wanna see people harmed,

and I feel like don't we all feel that way?

So it's kind of sad, I guess,

to see how much division has come into religion

because it's like, but ultimately, weren't we wanting good?

Yeah, right.

Well, I think it seems like a lot of times when I talk to folks, and they'll talk about

religion of different kinds, and I think so many people come out of a background...

I don't know if this is quite your parents, but if they came out of a background where

things were really forced or required, and especially if those expectations were super

heavy, and if the background was more legalistic, there's a certain burden there.

And I always like to say to people, there's a difference between religion and relationship.

Religion is about what we do to get to God, we gotta check off the boxes, we gotta be

a certain kind of person so God's happy with us.

And I always try to say, Christianity is not...

'Cause I think so many people think of Christianity as religion, it's about doing the right stuff.

And I always like to say, Christianity is about relationship, it's about Jesus dying

on a cross for our sins so we can have a personal relationship with God.

And then out of that relationship, something changes on the inside so that we wanna be

the kind of person you're describing.

But I think what's tough is in our culture, so many people, and this is sad, but so many

people have had tough experiences with religion that they end up thinking of it, this is mostly,

you should go to church on Sundays, you should do these things, and it's all about what we're

supposed to do and less about what Jesus has done for us. And then even what we do becomes,

I'm trying to somehow make God happy instead of receiving, in a sense, God's acceptance through

Jesus and saying, "Okay, out of that place, now I'm gonna live a different kind of person." So...

Absolutely.

I think those tensions are real tensions.

And that has absolutely tainted people that I've talked to, and the experiences along the way. You

by people in that atmosphere.

So I definitely think that plays along with it

and certain things that have just tainted that experience

for people that make them feel like,

well, maybe this isn't for me.

- Right.

Well, I think that it's cool with you telling the story.

You know, it's interesting because you're telling stories

and for me, I read this book called "The Air I Breathe"

and basically, you know,

without doing a nerdy deep dive on it,

he basically talks about so much of our cultural values

we hold, human rights, morality as a whole, all these different things are inheritances

of a Christian worldview ultimately.

To say something's right or wrong, these are all inheritances that we have, even if our

culture at large doesn't necessarily subscribe to that.

And it's funny because even as you are telling a story, it's funny 'cause I think of the

Bible, people look again, even at the Bible in different ways, rule book, all these different

things, but ultimately the Bible itself is a story.

starts Genesis with this creation in a garden, that God takes the story through, there's crisis,

there's redemption through Jesus, and then at the end of the Bible, there's ultimately what we call

new creation where God makes all things new and writes injustices. And so I feel like every time

we are telling good stories, there's a sense in which we're imaging God. And I think that with

even what you've just described here today, I think it's really cool because there's a very

real sense in which when you tell redemptive stories in the way that you're seeking to do that,

I think you're imaging God, you're imaging our Creator. His word is a story, He's in a sense

writing a story, and every time you tell a good story that's seeking to paint a better picture

of a future or to make a better future possible, there's a very real sense in which I think you're

imaging the God who made you. I think that's really, really cool to think of it that way.

- Absolutely, I can relate to that in the sense of,

I was telling you about that puzzle piece

and creating that artwork in a sense

when you are telling a story

and those pieces coming together,

there are many times that I definitely feel like

there is some force that is helping that story

come together in ways that I had no control over.

- Yeah, yeah, that's really, really cool.

That's the thing I love about how God works,

whether we always tangibly know or how people name him,

I think he is at work behind the scenes

in far more ways than what we can appreciate.

- Yes, absolutely.

- Well, Emily, thank you so much for joining me here.

- I had a great time.

- I really appreciate this conversation.

Thanks for your realness.

Thanks for what you do.

Thanks for the way your stories make a difference.

And thank you for being such a help

to Getty Music as well.

We're grateful.

- Thank you so much for having me.

- Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Emily.

And I really appreciated the emphasis she put

on the sacrifices and the challenges she's had to face

to get to where she is today.

That's gonna be a necessary part for any of us

to pursue the calling that God has put on our lives.

And if you are a Christ follower,

part of what it means to follow Jesus

is to carry your cross.

And so that looks like a lot of different things,

but just know that sacrifice, risk, faith,

it's all part of what it means to follow Jesus.

But as Jesus himself said, "The reward is great."

Well, if you appreciated this conversation,

please rate and review us.

That helps us get the word out to more and more people

about Made to Advance.

This has been a production of Engedi Church,

and we have more incredible conversations on the way.

And so until next time,

just know that God made you to advance.