Tall Girl: welcome back to sense, sensibility and chaos. The podcast that believes budgets are just horoscopes for your bank account.

Busy: I'm busy. I track my expenses religiously, and still somehow forget that iced teas.

Busy: Count.

Well Read: I'm well read. I once signed up for a free trial to save money, and then forgot about it

Well Read: for 3 years.

Tall Girl: And I'm tall, girl. My budget is just vibes writing a notebook today. we're talking about money, the mistakes, the miscalculations, and the one glorious payday, when you felt like you could buy a yacht, you couldn't. But still.

Well Read: Hi.

Busy: Hi hi hi.

Tall Girl: Hey, my fellow? Rich, absolutely budgeting. Well, friends, how are you doing.

Busy: I mean budgeting.

Well Read: Budgeted 2 with an inch of my life. But you know, yeah.

Tall Girl: Spreadsheet, app mental checklist.

Well Read: App.

Busy: Running.

Well Read: I used to do spreadsheet, but then I wasn't faithful to it, so app.

Tall Girl: You have a side, you have a side budget.

Tall Girl: Wow, okay,

Well Read: I do. I do.

Tall Girl: I didn't think you were that kind of.

Well Read: Well, you know.

Tall Girl: When you learn a person's finances, you really get to know them. Huh!

Well Read: We learn new things every day.

Busy: I've never been much for, like an app, or anything of that nature. I used to keep

Busy: it was more just a check sheet to make sure that I was paying my bills, like, you know, sometimes like, Oh, yeah, you know, you have to pay this every the mortgage on the first.st But you know.

Busy: you sometimes get busy. So it's just basically a spreadsheet going down in order of when the bills were due, to make sure that I hit. You know that I like marked it off

Busy: and noted if there's anything different or weird. But yeah.

Tall Girl: The move that surprises nobody. I have multiple bank accounts, and I have

Tall Girl: for each thing and each whatever.

Tall Girl: so like the account that pays all the bills gets funded with X amount of dollars every month, because I know, like, if my bills are $3, I will make sure I have $3 and 50 cents in that account. So, like my bills are paid from that account.

Tall Girl: and then the other money is in like 2 separate accounts, because when it's all together, I'm like, Oh, but you know I'll borrow here from there. But if it's like no, this account is for Bill paying only, and once a month you have to make sure X amount of dollars is in this account.

Well Read: Hmm.

Tall Girl: And then there's like the savings account, which is like, Okay, any extra you move in here. And then there's like the everyday account.

Well Read: Yeah.

Busy: Yeah, I mean, I do have multiple accounts. I mean, I just meant for tracking

Busy: bills. But I typically had multiple accounts. And

Busy: what I'll do is you get paid on a Friday? I give myself

Busy: certain amount of money to, like, you know.

Busy: Use that's outside of bills or something, and then should I not use that all by the next payday I move that amount into savings

Busy: so that I'm like, all right. You didn't use it. Roll it into savings. And I also, when the payday comes, I also take a set amount that automatically goes into savings, too. So.

Tall Girl: I have a savings account that I don't remember the password to. I like intentionally put a password I won't remember, so I have to reset the password to get in. So I really have to like

Tall Girl: you don't need to

Tall Girl: accessing the money. This is your savings savings. Do you need to be in here right now.

Well Read: You need to be committed.

Tall Girl: Because, like, if it's right there and it's like, Oh, I can just transfer it out of savings into checking, and I can spend it. I'm like, if it's hidden, and I don't remember it, and I can't see it.

Tall Girl: It's a beautiful little like. Oh, okay, here's the money you're going to need for that tire. But like, if I can see it, I'm like, Oh, I can spend it and earn it back, so I need to like out of sight, out of mind, savings.

Well Read: That's smart.

Tall Girl: It's like the Rainy Day Fund, like I know the Rainy Day Fund is there? I can't tell you the balance of the Rainy day fund, because it's better that I don't know it.

Busy: Where do you feel when it comes to money? Obviously, there's an emotional side.

Well Read: Mhm.

Busy: And how does that for each of us play out.

Well Read: What do you want? Like examples, or.

Busy: However, you want to take the question.

Well Read: Oh, well, yeah, obviously, money is never just

Well Read: money, right? It's it's a lot of different things to a lot of different people, except for some people

Well Read: how much money they spend on themselves or somebody else spends on them equals love.

Well Read: So it can be that it can be guilt. It can be comfort.

Well Read: Can be lots of different things, you know. Some people comfort shop.

Well Read: that's what they do when they're feeling depressed, or whatever or when they're feeling happy they go on a spree.

Well Read: It's money is different things to different people.

Busy: So for me, I would say that money

Busy: Outside of my own, like managing myself money with other people as I need to feel balanced.

Busy: I don't feel comfortable when anyone, men or women

Busy: we'll put out like, if it's for a birthday or celebration. Something special. Okay, that's 1 thing.

Busy: But I Hi!

Busy: It takes me a very long time to ever feel comfortable with a person who might not, if they have more money than me. That's fine, but if they are always paying or

Busy: like it takes me, I I have to know that I could contribute

Busy: and equal out until I know that it's not going to be used against me.

Busy: Whether you know held back

Busy: or given with guilt or commentary so

Busy: past traumas make me have to feel.

Busy: I know who it's. You know people like Oh, why wouldn't you let me help you? Because it's taken me many years to get to that point, to feel comfortable, to let people help.

Busy: but also I think some of it. How I was raised.

Busy: One of the expressions I was taught was neither borrower nor lender be.

Busy: and I don't know. I understand the idea of it. I don't necessarily

Busy: always agree with it, depending on who the person is like. I'm not just gonna lend money to

Busy: anyone in my life, but I would lend it for someone who he's a valued, you know.

Busy: friend or family member.

Tall Girl: So wait a minute. If I buy you hot pot 3 times in a row at like the 3rd time you start waiting to see if I'm gonna be like.

Busy: No.

Tall Girl: That's 3 hot pots. Somebody get a shoveling into my front yard.

Busy: Because it's taken me years to come to comfort level with that, because I know that

Busy: if you're taking like and and even with well, right here it's

Busy: I know that I don't need to keep track, because you're not going to hold it against me either way.

Busy: That is, I have to get to the comfort level, knowing where the person is

Busy: and how they would use it, or say against me.

Tall Girl: My financial response is to now torture you into weekly hot pots until you accept.

Busy: No, I accepted.

Busy: I accept your love and your your generous, you know, if you wanna get me lunch.

Busy: but then you but I also I'll do things for you where you know. You say, how much are you? And I say No, you know there is no cost, because I know we do that for each other. So that is but that took me a while to get to comfort level because of

Busy: past traumas.

Tall Girl: I don't really value money, and I know I don't value money like it's nice to have, and I understand what it is, but I don't.

Tall Girl: I don't think it's the end all be all, and I don't think it makes the person so like I'm never impressed by how much or how little you have! It's more.

Well Read: -

Busy: Oh, you know!

Tall Girl: Do with it like.

Well Read: You know what.

Tall Girl: It's a great thing, and yes, it buys you things, and yes, it's great to have, but on the other side of it, like the people who have the most also tend to be the worst human beings. So it's like.

Tall Girl: I never want to accumulate too much, because I feel like that's where the evil thing goes like nobody wants to worry about bills. Everybody would just like to be comfortable like

Tall Girl: my bills are paid. I have a buffer a margin in my day, and I would be satisfied.

Tall Girl: It's the over accumulation, or like we we know people who are very much like this is what I earn, and this is what I pay, and this is what I do, and I'm like, why are you?

Tall Girl: Why are you bringing me so far into your finances.

Tall Girl: I don't think you guys know what I make like. I don't think you guys know what I spend, and it would never occur to me to tell you dollar for dollar. Any of that information.

Tall Girl: There's other people seem to use it as like a form of social communication where I'm like.

Tall Girl: I can't imagine why you think I would care about your starting salary.

Well Read: So there's actually something to be said for those people who, I think,

Well Read: who share their finances. I I'm

Well Read: this will surprise nobody in this room, but I am a little bit of a Socialist when it comes to.

Tall Girl: What?

Well Read: Like, I think you should share your salary, especially with your coworkers.

Well Read: It's it's a collective bargaining thing.

Well Read: Yeah, you know, in in terms of

Well Read: how much everybody is making? And is everybody making

Well Read: what they should be fairly making

Well Read: like? None of the 64 cents on the dollar crap

Well Read: So I'm I'm big one, but I'm also very shy when it comes to money in general, like it's

Well Read: I.

Well Read: If asked, or if in a comfortable situation. I will share details, but not like overshare.

Busy: Yeah, no, I'm I. I'm probably like.

Busy: I feel like, I don't necessarily feel like everyone needs to know what your salary is in the in a job. I do feel that we need to know what a salary the range might be for that role.

Busy: So this role is, you know, 60 to 80,000, so that you know that if you're

Busy: below that you should be, you know. Talk to your management and be brought up like that sort of stuff. I'm okay. With that I need to know that you make 68,000.

Busy: How you negotiate some of that your experiences that might alter it.

Busy: I am not.

Busy: My parents both used to get frustrated with me, because if we went to like if you had your birthday party or a graduation party, and someone gives you a gift card. At a certain age I stopped telling them what people gave.

Busy: and they would get so frustrated because they would say, like.

Busy: well, when their child graduates next year, I want to know how much to give them like, give them what you need to give them.

Busy: I am now at this page, you know, probably like end of high school. So it's just, you know.

Busy: turning 18 in a few months, and, like you, give them what you need to give them.

Well Read: Keeping up with the Joneses is not necessarily.

Busy: It's it's not even about the Joneses so much as I think a respecting having both of us being. Both sides are Italian, American. So it was. If

Busy: Uncle Joe give you a hundred dollars.

Busy: and when his son graduates he wants we want to reciprocate the $100 because there's a respect thing.

Busy: if possible, you know. That's her.

Tall Girl: Like friends I have who are like Arab, Asian, Italian, like people write this stuff down. There's like a big old reference, for like they gave a hundred. So I have to give a hundred like if they didn't give X or they didn't cover their plate kind of things like, especially when it comes to weddings like that's a big.

Tall Girl: For your birthday like we gave them kind of thing. But I'm like, that's the thing that drives me crazy because it's like I would love to give you 300. But I am in college. I gave you the $50 I had like.

Well Read: And I had to save for that.

Tall Girl: Mean your bad finance book, but, like Thank you.

Tall Girl: go into debt for your birthday with the expectation that, like 12 months later, I'll get that money back.

Busy: No. And I agree with that. I I definitely think that there is

Busy: and and I think that's part of why I also didn't say, because it's like, I don't know what your finances are

Busy: and what you can give to our cousin, or whoever that's your thing. Now, like

Busy: I do try like I had 2 of my cousins siblings marry. Both of them got married last year.

Busy: so I did

Busy: write down what I gave for the 1st wedding to remember for the second wedding, because to me there were different venues and different environments. One was an overnight stay, one wasn't, but

Busy: because they're my 1st cousins. To me it's important to give the same amount which I matched to another previous 1st cousin on the same side, you know, to try and be in the range, and we're close. So it's not like it's a distant cousin that we don't talk to. We are close, we

Busy: chat constantly. But no, I also believe that if

Busy: there have been times when I you know I had a couple of weddings well back then, I was like, listen. I owe you your wedding gift.

Busy: Please don't think I didn't think of you. I just right now can't give it to you, but know it's coming, and luckily friends and family have been like I don't care. But they I'm just glad you're here, I said. I understand.

Busy: but just know it will be coming when I'm in a better situation.

Busy: and I could give an appropriate amount, and I keep a list.

Tall Girl: But I mean, I think there's also those that are like. You only spend $318 on me like, obviously you don't love me so like that's also.

Busy: Oh, thank God, I don't have anyone like that really in my life!

Tall Girl: Guidance.

Tall Girl: I feel like some people talk about their finances and talk about that stuff, because for them it's very checks and balances, and they're very like.

Well Read: And the.

Tall Girl: This equals that, and I don't think they're trying to be offensive, and it took me a few years to catch on to that like. You're telling me your salary because you're proud of it.

Tall Girl: I think you're telling me your salary to like. Get my head and be like,

Tall Girl: More than you or less than you, and like it gets

Tall Girl: weird, it just it took me forever to catch on that. Some people weren't trying to be rude. They were just trying to express

Tall Girl: their success.

Busy: Yeah. And I think that there is a difference like, I have some friends

Busy: I have. I could probably get a strong guess of where they are financially with their salaries. No, but and they don't tell me numbers, but they might say, Hey, you know, this year I for my job. I was given a bonus, and it was the most I've ever had. I don't need to know if that was a thousand dollars or $30,000. That's your business. But if you're telling me that was the most you've ever had, I'm gonna be. I'm happy for you, and I will celebrate that. Oh, my God, that's fantastic.

Busy: Jane. That you know you've got your largest bonus to date, and like that's fantastic. I you know.

Busy: Hope you enjoy. You know that you could put it places and spend it how you want. But I don't need to know that it was whatever amount it was because I'm not responsible for Dane's finances, and I don't

Busy: pick my friends based on their financial status.

Tall Girl: I have spreadsheets where I like keep track of my finances just because I need to see it in one place written down. It just it helps me.

Tall Girl: Lord bless the people who can have a running number in their head! That is not how I function

Tall Girl: of.

Tall Girl: but the other side of that is, people who tell me numbers. I can pay attention, and when you're like, Oh, I make 50,000, and you know, like then they start to run down their finances, and I'm like

Tall Girl: that. Math doesn't math. And when I think you're lying to me about like, it doesn't matter the finances of it. But when I think you're lying to me about something so fundamental as like that, I'm like, what other lies are you telling me or like? Oh, well, I bought this car for 42,000, and then I bought this, you know, whatever, for 10,000 I'm like. Well, that's more money than you brought in all year so like.

Tall Girl: but it feels weird to raise your hand and be like about your finances, because the numbers you're telling me don't make sense. But you remember when you said what your salary was, plus all these other things like it's not. It's not mathing. Help me understand your budget.

Tall Girl: It feels intrusive, but also you brought me there because you brought up your salary. You brought up your expenses. Now I'm kind of like in the game.

Tall Girl: but the game doesn't make any sense like you're borrowing from the Monopoly Bank in a way that I just I want to understand how.

Busy: Yeah, I I'm very grateful that

Busy: I have

Busy: people who have set good tones. I've not always been in a position to, but one of my friends, her husband.

Busy: They have never been the type when raising their children to be keeping up with the Joneses

Busy: so like when their children were saying, oh, our friends have all gone to Disney several times, and we've never been.

Busy: It was because for them a they wanted to make sure their children were old enough to remember it.

Busy: But B. They didn't want to put it on credit card debt.

Busy: and they wanted to save up for it.

Busy: so that it like. Yes, they wanted to experience it. Yes, they wanted to go, and the the kids were young enough to appreciate the magic of it. But they weren't going to put themselves in financial debt and ruin.

Busy: going every other year or every. And listen, if you have the finance, let's do it, or you're comfortable with the day.

Busy: Blessings on your house! That's not how.

Busy: I because I've been there. I had. I did a lot of the college debt.

Busy: The debt. Excuse me during college after college, and

Busy: it took me a long time to not only put in healthy financial habits

Busy: as best I can, but to get my credit score back up.

Busy: And so now.

Busy: because that's the other side of the financial. You know. Portion is managing your finances so like there are times when I am not.

Busy: you know, maybe best in my savings and my cash. But I'm happy because my credit score

Busy: I've worked very hard to get to a certain level

Busy: and try and maintain that. So I I appreciate that I have people in my life who have set good examples, and that no one in my first, 2nd, 3, rd 4th circle are the type that are like, Oh, my God! You didn't buy a new

Busy: insert designer name here, bag like, what's wrong with you. I've never had any of those friends

Busy: and people in my life, and I'm very grateful for that.

Tall Girl: Weirdly. I attract those people because I tend to not care about money like, I like you as a person not based on the accessories on your person kind of thing.

Tall Girl: So for some reason, entitled Riyach D Bags.

Tall Girl: or like Hi, I'm rich and I'm like, Hi! I don't give a flying.

Tall Girl: They like. They go harder to try to impress me about it. And I'm like, really, you're never gonna get me to a point where I care how many bugattis are like in your driveway like, it's just not.

Tall Girl: It's

Tall Girl: weird. It's weird because my friends who manages their finances better and are more aware of their money. I swear they're nicer people.

Tall Girl: and like

Tall Girl: those that are more braggy, tend to be the ones I tend to avoid because they're trying to be flashy. They're trying to make up for the difference of something, so I always feel more awkward like the more you try to show me your wealth, the more I'm like. What are you hiding behind your wealth?

Tall Girl: Because they're also the ones that you know the second, they can't afford something have like an emotional breakdown. And I'm like.

Tall Girl: if I planned on buying this in 2023, and I can't afford it to 2025, like, okay, I'll work on that like I'll make do. I'll carry through.

Tall Girl: I obsess, about promo code probes like promo codes coupons.

Tall Girl: Yeah, it's just one of those like, I.

Tall Girl: I want to keep what I have. But it doesn't really necessarily matter to me, nor does it how I measure somebody else. It's just like.

Tall Girl: yeah, this is my pile of sand to play with. If my pile of sand disappears, I'm cool.

Tall Girl: You importing sand

Tall Girl: kind of freaks me out a little bit like I don't think I would do well with super rich friends, because it was just like, no, why.

Tall Girl: I can never be friends with Jeff Bezos.

Busy: I mean, I have no desire to. But also I mean, I think, that there, there are people I you know there are people in the world who are in like financial like, they are in the position to be financially generous, whether that's giving money to their friends, buying them things.

Busy: and for me, I think they're

Busy: has to be a balance in the relationship. Some people are comfortable with gifts.

Busy: you know. That is not my love language. It's the least of my love languages unless it's handmade. And then to me I I convert it to

Busy: time because you spent time making it but

Busy: that is something I am not comfortable with.

Busy: you know, receiving either a lot of gifts or expensive gifts.

Busy: And it goes to my trauma of not feeling like I could trust it.

Busy: And all. So I'm glad I'm I

Busy: don't have people in my life who who do that

Busy: and but I've also had to have calls with people like talk to me like, Hey, I love you for wanting to do this.

Busy: but

Busy: it it's too much for me. Please calm down, or can we find another way that is comfortable for both of us.

Busy: so that you feel like

Busy: you could, you know, display your friendship or something like that, and I don't feel. And it's not like I feel like they're buying my love or flaunting their their money in front of me. It's none of that. It's just. It's just childhood fun to just feels overwhelming.

Tall Girl: I mean, look, when we don't have jobs.

Tall Girl: it feels like crushing. Because it's just like this. I have skills. I have things I should be able to pay for things yet. I'm I'm not receiving money in when nothing has fundamentally changed. I'm still me.

Tall Girl: I just don't have a job right now

Tall Girl: and then having to have those conversations with people like, Hey, I'm unemployed like aw, like, excuse me like

Tall Girl: no, no, no, like you know. The economy globally took a tank. This this isn't my fault kind of thing, but it's like, you know. Then you start to stress your bills, and then you start to like this is how long the runway is kind of thing, and then it's like

Tall Girl: this is when I have to cut off subscriptions. This is when I have to. Whatever this is what I'm gonna have to call my parents to be like, Hey, yeah. And then it's like, you know.

Tall Girl: how lucky am I to have that runway as short as it is? But, like, you know, the reality, especially now is people's runways are getting shorter and shorter.

Well Read: Yes.

Tall Girl: You know.

Tall Girl: it's the stress of it, like our generation basically knows we're not going to retire. Or maybe we can afford like 5 years of retirement, instead of like the 20 years of retirement. Kind of thing. So it's like.

Tall Girl: it's been this thought process. Our whole lives like we're supposed to save up for something that's not happening

Tall Girl: yet, you know. Like, with everything getting infinitely more expensive, how can we even save? And then it just becomes this like never ending thought process of like. Okay.

Tall Girl: even with every spreadsheet that I have, even with every separate bank account that I have like.

Tall Girl: How do you make this all work, because one day, through no fault of your own, you just lose your job, or you get a hospital bill, or whatever, and it, just

Tall Girl: it knocks it all off.

Tall Girl: and it's without any control whatsoever. So like, I can manage my budget down to the micro penny.

Tall Girl: And then one thing happens through no fault of my own, maybe possibly through some fault of my own, and then it's like boom! There, there goes everything.

Busy: Yeah.

Busy: And even if you have it up, like, you know, oh, God, we're going 2018, yeah 2018.

Busy: I was literally turning onto my block.

Busy: and I was driving, and I turned up, and the guy behind me did not see me any minute later with his fault, and he hit my car, so

Busy: there was nothing wrong with my car otherwise, and it was just a better. It just was an older car that I had well under the mileage, for because it would cost more to do. But then, all of a sudden, I'm being hit with worrying about a car payment.

Busy: buying or renting and or leasing. Excuse me, and.

Well Read: Yep.

Busy: That was nothing. But just he wasn't paying attention. He flat outside. I was trying to get to Wendy's, and I didn't see you, and that's my fault. So

Busy: literally just turning on my block, putting on the blinker, slowing down, I did everything right, and then had to worry about that.

Busy: So things just happen in life.

Tall Girl: And then, even if your entire life is settled, you know your boiler breaks or your furnace turns off, or you know something else like whatever. There's just

Tall Girl: as soon as you feel financially peaceful is when I tend to start to panic, because then I'm like, No, no like.

WellRead: When's the other shoe going to drop?

Tall Girl: in like. I have $5 in my bank account till the end of the month, like yay, and then it's like that is the moment where I tend to start to freak out because I'm like.

Tall Girl: no, no, something's something's coming. Something's coming soon like.

Busy: Yeah, I mean, look at bills that get taken out. Anyone who is battled with student loan.

Busy: What company you deal with there is usually at some point. They're just gonna take out a payment sooner than not like a day sooner like your payment normal payment days on a Saturday. So they took it out Friday, I mean, like they took it out a week early, or they took the next month's.

Busy: you know, way early, or hey? By the way, they just wanted to. Took take a double payment out for no reason. And now you have to fight them to get it back. You don't understand that. Why, it's gonna why you're having such a fit, because you'll just pay it. We could just skip next month like. No, no, no, I need that money until next month.

Busy: like you're not helping me.

Busy: So I think like, then you have that situation where again you could have things on direct withdrawal. You could have payments, but then, sometimes

Busy: banks against it, lots of big offenders in this, in my opinion.

Busy: Just screw you over.

Tall Girl: I have that limited bank account so like it doesn't, so they can't. Years ago somebody taught me to use a prepaid credit card for the gym, because certain subscriptions will just keep you, or they'll keep billing you like. And now the trump administration just overturned the easy cancellation. So we're going back to like there was a like cancel. Now, kind of button like, we're going away. So I heard that the other day, and I was like.

Tall Girl: okay, time to go through my credit card statements and like anything I would like to get rid of that. I don't want to have to spend an hour and a half trying to get rid of like.

Tall Girl: Now is the time. Do I? Really?

Tall Girl: I love this? But do I use it? Should I get rid of it, because, having it could shortly take me forever to kind of opt out again, which is.

Tall Girl: when my friend told me about the prepaid credit card for the gym like it was life changing because I was like, oh, so certain things that seem like they're going to be sketchy. I put on the prepaid like. I'd rather you have to come, chase me for the money and explain why, despite the fact that I've canceled, you're still entitled to this money, but it's a

Tall Girl: the amount of work you have to do for this kind of stuff.

Tall Girl: or, like, you know, one year.

Tall Girl: 39, 99 a month, but pre like paid in advance, and then oh, by the way, we renew it on the 1st of January, not like March 3, rd when you signed up last.

Well Read: Last year.

Tall Girl: But come on.

Busy: Yeah, no, I I've gotten to the point when

Busy: I look at certain subscriptions, certain memberships. And I'm just like, is it necessary for me at this time.

Busy: So, for example, I was yesterday at WellRead's.

Busy: and there was something that I needed from a specific large store. I didn't have a membership to them. But I remembered if you did, Instacart, you can get it. And had that come over and was able to get it with that, because I don't need the whole membership because I have one for another store that my store just doesn't have this one product.

Busy: And so, like, I found a workaround to just make it so that I don't need another membership that gets renewed when I'm not paying attention.

Busy: Yeah, no, I mean.

Well Read: I, you know I've been through it, too, where you you lose your job, and the 1st week

Well Read: or the second week, depending on your

Well Read: mental stability. You sit down and you go. Okay, what do what do I not need?

Well Read: And it's surprising. I think it's something like people will underestimate

Well Read: their subscriptions by like 200%.

Well Read: So you'll think, oh, I only have Netflix, but you have Netflix and Hulu, and paramount and and and and and

Well Read: and you don't think about it like.

Well Read: because it's not something that you engage with a whole lot often

Well Read: the subscription. So you just you forget you have it, and but 200 is a map like a huge number.

Busy: To misestimate your finances by and.

Well Read: When I had to sit down and go through my subscriptions and stuff like that, and it was a big eye opener for me. It taught me a lot about what I need and what I don't need.

Busy: Right.

Tall Girl: I also think it can be like in the more conversations we have to be honest with each other, like I am in a tough spot. You have a Costco membership. I don't. If you're gonna go to Costco, can I give you the money? And can you buy me the Costco items kind of deal like

Tall Girl: it does kind of lead you to a place with people you can trust. You could say something like that, which is, I think how we ended like we landed on so many people using Netflix subscriptions because it's like, I don't have 1499 a month to spend on Hulu and Netflix and Disney, and whatever, and you know.

Well Read: And it's it's not even 1499 a month anymore. It's

Well Read: $20 in a lot of cases, $20/25 with ads, because they know they can get you. Now.

Tall Girl: Which is why I'm so cheap and use like my local library, because I'm like, No, no like. Do you understand? I get to watch a film all the way through that I paid for through my taxes, anyway, like I get to watch this film and I get to return it and like, yes, I have to go to my library, which is inconvenient, but

Tall Girl: I just I can't. I don't. I don't know where people are getting the money, because it's now more than a cable bill to have these 19 subscriptions plus audible plus com. So you can sleep plus the sleep app plus the period tracking app plus like when you add up all the apps and what you're spending on apps alone, not even subscriptions. It's like holy.

Tall Girl: but it's like there's that guy on Tiktok who sits down with people, and they're like terrible finances, and I know he's doing it for the drama. So he picks the people with the worst finances. But I'm like, I feel better that I'm more in control of my finances than some people. But on the other side, I'm like.

Tall Girl: Oh, he has a point like, I probably shouldn't be spending this, that or the other kind of thing like.

Well Read: And there's that whole there. But for the grace of go I you know,

Well Read: The thought process that it can.

Well Read: for most people change on a dime.

Well Read: All it takes is one big bill.

Tall Girl: I think it was a while ago I looked it up. The average American is 2 paychecks away from.

Well Read: Less, now.

Tall Girl: Less, and then it's now.

Well Read: Paycheck, and then.

Tall Girl: 8 years to get back like, just because it's gonna happen that quick. It's 8 years before you get back to where you were in this moment before the big bill hit. So it's like that's.

Well Read: Yeah.

Tall Girl: That's the tight ass margin we're living in now, and it's like.

Well Read: Yep.

Tall Girl: How are you not stressing your finances like? I know I'm cheap. I am cheap about so many things. I also know I ridiculously spend on others.

Tall Girl: but like for us to have a good meal together, I'd rather us have a nice meal together than like buy you a Tchotchke. You don't need, so

Tall Girl: it's very unlike.

Tall Girl: Buy you a you know, crap gift, just because it happens to be Christmas. But like, Oh, there's this, you know, like wine and cheese expo like.

Tall Girl: I would rather have that experience with you guys. So like, that is fun money. But like

Tall Girl: Bill, money goes first, st and then there's like, whatever's left over is like, okay. But 1st go bills.

Well Read: Yep.

Tall Girl: But you know.

Tall Girl: one thing, one tiny little thing gets knocked off, and it's like it all evaporates, like, okay, I just, I need running water.

Tall Girl: All I need is running water.

Busy: So what are things that you feel? You've learned sooner with financial

Well Read: Things that I wish I'd learned sooner. I think not to get into the habit, or

Well Read: I don't know if that's the right way to put it

Well Read: to get into the habit of saying no.

Busy: Hmm! Yep.

Well Read: Like Nope can't do it, and we've talked about that before. But

Well Read: the ability to like really push the Fomo back and say, You know what. It's just not feasible right now.

Well Read: because of what I'm looking at, I think is something that I wish I had learned sooner

Well Read: rather than a little bit later.

Busy: Understanding. I think how things affect your credit Score.

Busy: So

Well Read: Oh, my God! That's something that they should be teaching in high school.

Tall Girl: Financial education, like the literally

Tall Girl: my parents talked to me about some of it, so I had a little bit of a better idea. But like even crypto, like, it's just you have to go out and do the research because nobody teaches you. And then, like people, make really unwise choices. They have no idea what a margin call is kind of.

Tall Girl: I will have friends. Call me about their 401 K. And I'm like

Tall Girl: I am not the person for you to talk about your 4. 0, 1 k with like

Tall Girl: oh, but I don't know when to invest it

Tall Girl: like, what is a Roth, Ira, like things that we should be taught.

Tall Girl: If you're going to have to be taught to drive, to get on the road, you should have to be taught finances to get into the financial game.

Tall Girl: because the rules are stacked against you in every possible way in the finance world. At least, like, you know there's not cars intentionally headed to hit you on the highway. Well, except for you.

Well Read: She wish she met me. Guys.

Tall Girl: But, like, you know, normally, aggressively, there are not just people on the highway being like, Oh, I'll rear end them. So they have a collision, it's like, you know, but in the finance world, like there's an overdraft fee, and there's an in margin call, and there's like a overdraft, and there's like all these other rules, and there's taxes, and there's hidden fees, and

Tall Girl: you have to be so on top of it, and nobody ever tells you that until you find yourself like the number of people in college who signed up for a credit card because they sat and.

Busy: Student center.

Well Read: Hi.

Tall Girl: And then it's like, Hey, here's, you know, 42% interest on like what what? Oh.

Well Read: And, by the way, if you have that card for a while, and then you cancel it, it's gonna negatively impact your credit score by screwing you by like a hundred points.

Tall Girl: Oh, and then there's 3 credit agencies. So good luck, you're gonna have to call all these credit agencies. And even then they're probably not gonna fix it. So you open.

Well Read: Probably end up.

Tall Girl: Having to hire somebody to clear out your financial record. To like

Tall Girl: I had friends apply for mortgages and stuff from their college years is like about that Victoria secret credit card.

Well Read: It's still.

Tall Girl: And your name kind of stuff, and it's like.

Well Read: Yeah, I think one of

Well Read: one of the most valuable things that I did learn was how to balance a checkbook that was part of my junior year math

Well Read: class.

Busy: Oh, I learned it. I just didn't do it.

Well Read: Learned how to balance checkbooks and like and do an actual budget and stuff. And and I got sat down by a parent and

Well Read: had a budget laid out for me like this is how your life will look if you're not careful.

Well Read: So those are some of the privileges that

Well Read: I was granted growing up. But

Well Read: I think you guys both bring up excellent points about the

Well Read: the things that you wish you would learn sooner, and

Well Read: also say not to compare my finances to others. When I got my 1st job everybody was going to Cabo for the weekend. They were going to Miami. They had Prada bags.

Tall Girl: I thought I was making an okay salary. I didn't understand how everybody else was living this grandiose life.

Tall Girl: And then, you know, a fiscal cliff happens and come to find out. Friends not only have, like $80,000 in student debt, they've got like 40,000 80,000 in credit card debt.

Tall Girl: I was sitting here the whole time thinking I was an absolute failure. I wasn't shedding off places. I wasn't buying the newest thing I wasn't doing like Salt Bay, you know. Steak experiences.

Tall Girl: I was paying my bills.

Tall Girl: I was paying my bills with my meager salary, and by the like I made money. I paid money, and I made money again. Kind of thing

Tall Girl: I was. Even so when the fiscal cliff happened like I was making just enough money to squeak through, whereas everybody else was like

Tall Girl: massively in debt, and for the years leading up to that moment I thought I was an absolute failure. And I was like, Oh.

Tall Girl: okay, lesson learned. Whatever they're showing you is not necessarily what their bank balance is, and.

Well Read: No compounding that we grew up like

Well Read: we came into adulthood right? As social media was becoming a thing. So if they were going to Cabo if they were going on this trip and that trip, or buying this thing and that thing. It was all over social media, and we had never been inundated

Well Read: with that kind of information before. So it it leads to all sorts of like guilt and frustration.

Well Read: Pain. Yeah, but it's shame.

Busy: Just ridiculous!

Well Read: Things that we didn't think we were ever going to have to feel, but we

Well Read: got to feel it all up front. And then, you know, you eventually learn that

Well Read: nothing is, as it seems, in front of the camera.

Busy: Yeah, I think that things I wish I learned sooner were

Busy: even if you don't open up the credit cards when they're like, oh, you just check to see, and they hit your credit for a hard

Well Read: Hard inquiry between a soft credit check and a hard credit check.

Busy: Okay.

Busy: because I wouldn't check my own credit for the longest time, because I assumed I knew it was an inquiry, an inquiry.

Busy: I didn't realize the difference between myself checking my credit versus have it, and.

Well Read: Agency.

Busy: Hard, apply and and understand that. Understand that even when I pay off a loan, which is a great thing, you are going to hit a couple of points because it's seen as closing account, though it's a good thing it does seem, you know, that that.

Well Read: Oh, wow! They're extending my credit card limit. That does not mean you have to.

Busy: Spend it too much like. Sit yourself down.

Well Read: Do you have a different.

Tall Girl: Between a credit score and a fico score like they don't explain that to you. So some people look at the 2, and they're like. Oh, my fico score is like 900. I'm like what? No like that!

Tall Girl: What? What do you

Tall Girl: to understand? How to apply for a loan, or what that does for your credit, or how the 2 numbers work together, not necessarily separately, like you can have one good and one bad, and when you go to lease a car. Good luck! Nobody.

Busy: When I.

Well Read: That the ideal amount of debt is 1 3.rd Your salary.

Busy: When I when I went to purchase my house, my aunt was my realtor, and I didn't have a house yet, but the 1st thing she made me do is sit down with

Busy: a finance, a

Busy: person. I forget what her specific title was, and she pulled my credit, and she's like, Hey, did you? Were you aware of this? Open? I was like no, and apparently I had a student loan that I didn't know about. I mean

Busy: when I went back and did the work I found it, and I'd forgotten about it honestly, because you know, you just sign away your life when you were younger, and

Busy: I had money.

Busy: and she said, Listen, I think until you find the house that you're looking for, she goes. Do not open up credit cards. Don't look for a new card. Don't do anything. Don't go spending money, pay a little bit more on your credit card if you can. And this

Busy: loan that was open. I have a let's say the number was $10,000 in credit, card debt and 10,000 for this loan, and she said. I said I could pay off the credit card to me, because that seemed like the better because

Busy: your debt could go right back up on the credit card, she said. Pay off this loan if you can, right now.

Busy: and you you won't have as much foot down, but that will close out.

Busy: and then we could be done with that, and between, when we 1st pulled my credit to when I actually closed on the house, my score has gone up.

Busy: and because it was about 2 months or 3 months or so, and it allowed me to have a little more flexibility

Busy: to get a higher mortgage approved, for when I close, so you know, looking to see what are the better options? Is it better to pay down the credit card debt at the moment, or a loan that you have set. If you you know you borrowed 20,000, you could pay that off first, st which one has the higher apr

Busy: like trying to do that and be smart about things.

Well Read: Financial, literacy.

Tall Girl: Oh!

Busy: Oh!

Well Read: Is just. It's woefully undertaught.

Busy: In this country at least.

Well Read: In this country, in this country.

Tall Girl: Frustrating that you come down to a number.

Tall Girl: and then even then that number is, you know, you've got. You've got a hateful kind of bigoted car salesman. It doesn't matter what your score is. He's he's gonna completely screw you over.

Tall Girl: You know you've never met me. You don't know me. You have no idea that I would give a kidney in order to make sure I could pay off this debt versus somebody else is like, Oh, I just got a $10,000 loan, and all I did was smile. And I'm like what

Tall Girl: you know. And then, like the Canadian aspect of it, like, you have to have 25% to put down in the Us. It's like, Hey, you have nothing welcome to credit cards. It's so easy here. And it's like.

Tall Girl: Okay, this is whenever I go into the Canadian bank to talk about something. And then it's like, Oh, okay. But in America they just look at me and they're like.

Tall Girl: How is that legal? And I'm like, I don't know, but that's that's how it works over on the other side of the border.

Busy: I think also.

Busy: Well, I just went blank on this. We were just saying, I I think, understanding

Busy: what your end goals are.

Busy: 2 so you know, not just paying your minimum payments, but

Busy: working. If if you are in a place to

Busy: putting a little bit more money, $10 $20 if you can, on payments to work towards a a better long term goal.

Tall Girl: Also, knowing, if you can like, my my parents bought this house for the 1st 2 years they couldn't overpay

Tall Girl: so like

Tall Girl: they couldn't make overpayments. So they banked the money, and then they like they wiped out their more. Okay, also back. Then it was infinitely easier you could pay a lifeguarding salary to go to Harvard kind of deal, but like.

Well Read: Mhm.

Tall Girl: My mom still goes to this bank where this banker is still like they must be the same age. He's still in business, he's like. The woman who paid off her mortgage, and like half the time like he's still a little bit bitter that he didn't make the interest off my parents back in 19

Tall Girl: because they read the terms and the term said, for the 1st 2 years you couldn't pay a dime more

Tall Girl: but 2 years in a day, and they started making like payments and a half, because they were like we would rather eat ramen and bananas for 5 years and pay this off.

Tall Girl: They didn't vacation. They didn't go anywhere. Fancy, like, you know, our 1st few years. Mom stayed home all the time, and then it was like, okay, but now our mortgage is paid off. Any money coming in after this is our money to manage our way. You no longer hold our purse strings kind of deal.

Tall Girl: Nobody explained that to him, and my mom would like every once in a while it would come up, and people are like, how did you know that she was like I read.

Well Read: The terms and conditions.

Tall Girl: We went home, and as a couple we read the whole agreement together and asked questions. And I was like, you know, you're taught not to hassle them. You're taught not to question it. Just be grateful that somebody's willing to issue. They're doing you the favor, and it's like.

Tall Girl: no, I give them my money, and they loan it out 6 times.

Tall Girl: They're not doing me the favor. I'm doing them the favor of giving them my money.

Tall Girl: It's a mute for me, not against me, because the second I don't have any money. You guys like

Tall Girl: the day I don't pay a bill. You all cut me off.

Tall Girl: You're not my friend, you you are a corporation who will cut me off in a nanosecond.

Busy: One of the things. A year ago I went. I was looking for a car, and

Busy: one of the things that has happened now it used to be that you would get a better deal if the car was, let's say, $30,000, and you can give them pretty much cash

Busy: for the car. You might get it down a little bit, and they would, you know, give you the deal. But now they're getting kickbacks from, and and my car guy flat out. Told me. Listen.

Well Read: Yep.

Busy: We get kickbacks. The company gets kicked back from the loan companies.

Busy: So now it is not cheaper to do the pay the cash upfront. So we are pushing the loans. So

Busy: you know it's if you can like. You have to do the loan for like a month or 2,

Busy: and then, if you have the money like, pay it off to be done

Busy: so like, you know, that works against you, and just being aware going into it.

Tall Girl: I like the early days of Crypto. I was really excited because I was like, Oh, this will be run by us, and now it's like, no, you know, the government's gonna get their fingers into crypto. And I was like, oh, so no, no, no.

Tall Girl: never mind.

Well Read: No, I'd like to go back to barter system.

Tall Girl: You know, more and more people are starting to do that again, like neighborhoods are doing like. I'll barter you bread for doing laundry or something, or you shovel my driveway kind of deal, and I'm like.

Tall Girl: We definitely, we need to as much as we need to teach people be financially literate. We also need to teach people how to bargain for the skill or the whatever they have. But

Tall Girl: it's much easier to negotiate with. You have shuffling your hand.

Tall Girl: I've been like 4.th

Well Read: If you, if you shovel me out of my house, I will feed you.

Busy: S.

Well Read: I will feed you, and I will probably give you a beer as well like. You deserve

Well Read: a beer and a nice meal for shoveling me out of my house, and I think that that is a perfectly fair trade.

Well Read: But

Well Read: yeah, I think bargaining is definitely a skill that is is quickly being lost, especially with the subscription-based mentality.

Tall Girl: I think people also don't necessarily know that they have the skill like I would pay you to do that. And like, I think, a lot of people don't realize that that.

Tall Girl: Like sometimes. Her time is, you know.

Tall Girl: and you pick up my mail. I will give you a jar of jam if you pick up my mail while I'm on vacation kind of thing like

Tall Girl: it's 10 feet from my house to your house like a jar of jam. Good deal.

Tall Girl: So basically start anarchy, start bargaining, ordering, and bargaining for everything.

Well Read: Yes, good chaos.

Tall Girl: Global domination through bartering.

Tall Girl: Why am I always trying to revolutionize the world.

Busy: I don't know.

Busy: I think it's a cult.

Tall Girl: Independent community.

Busy: Think that's it for today's episode.

Tall Girl: That is the end of today's episode. Episode 20. So yay, for us, our podcast can almost drink in America. If you if you've ever looked at your bank account and thought, who did this to me. It was you. But that's okay.

Busy: Next week. Who knows? Maybe we'll talk about something that doesn't cost money.

Well Read: If you like this episode, subscribe review or send it to the friend who's currently justifying another candle.

Tall Girl: Until then stay sensible.

Busy: Or embrace the chaos.

Well Read: Preferably both.