INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where

INTRO: we share learning and expertise in child protection

INTRO: from inside and outside of the organisation.

INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and

INTRO: share good practice on how we can all work together

INTRO: to keep babies, children and young people safe.

PRODUCER: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast.

PRODUCER: Online technology and the ubiquity of

PRODUCER: smartphones have transformed the way that

PRODUCER: children and young people interact with others.

PRODUCER: This online landscape brings both benefits and

PRODUCER: risks, and one such risk is online sexual

PRODUCER: extortion.

PRODUCER: Online sexual extortion, also known as

PRODUCER: sextortion, is a form of online blackmail that

PRODUCER: involves the threat of sharing nude or semi-nude

PRODUCER: images or videos to extort money or force

PRODUCER: someone to do something against their will.

PRODUCER: In this podcast episode, recorded in March 2025,

PRODUCER: we'll be discussing what you can do to protect

PRODUCER: children from this form of abuse.

PRODUCER: I'm pleased to be joined by two expert guests to

PRODUCER: discuss the topic.

PRODUCER: Marie and Danielle, would you like to introduce

PRODUCER: yourselves, please?

DANIELLE HARRIS: Sure, my name is Danielle.

DANIELLE HARRIS: I'm a Childline Team Manager and I work

DANIELLE HARRIS: on our [Childline] Reach programme.

DANIELLE HARRIS: So the Reach programme is a programme of

DANIELLE HARRIS: work that looks at campaigns and

DANIELLE HARRIS: activities to reach children and young

DANIELLE HARRIS: people that we know as a service we're

DANIELLE HARRIS: less visible to.

DANIELLE HARRIS: And our most recent campaign is called

DANIELLE HARRIS: Behind the Screen, which looks at

DANIELLE HARRIS: reaching boys in terms of online sexual

DANIELLE HARRIS: extortion and raising awareness of this.

MARIE SMITH: Hey, hi. Thanks for having me.

MARIE SMITH: I'm Marie Smith. I oversee the CEOP education

MARIE SMITH: programme that's based within the National

MARIE SMITH: Crime Agency.

MARIE SMITH: We have resources that are run throughout

MARIE SMITH: schools for age groups 4 to 18,

MARIE SMITH: and a particular key threat of which we're

MARIE SMITH: focusing on at moment is what we're calling

MARIE SMITH: financially motivated sexual extortion.

PRODUCER: Fantastic. Thank you both for joining me today.

PRODUCER: I think that a good place to start is the point

PRODUCER: on terminology.

PRODUCER: So at the NSPCC, we use the term online sexual

PRODUCER: extortion to refer to the topic we're

PRODUCER: discussing.

PRODUCER: You've also might know this as sextortion as

PRODUCER: well. And Marie, as you said, at CEOP, you use

PRODUCER: the term financially motivated sexual extortion.

PRODUCER: All of those terms, we'll come across in

PRODUCER: our discussion today.

PRODUCER: Marie, I wonder if you could give us a quick

PRODUCER: introduction or a definition to what we mean

PRODUCER: when we say online sexual extortion.

MARIE SMITH: Yeah, of course.

MARIE SMITH: So we do a number of things at the National

MARIE SMITH: Crime Agency. And I guess within the CEOP

MARIE SMITH: child protection, child abuse arena,

MARIE SMITH: we have separated the sexual

MARIE SMITH: extortion — so that's the grooming of

MARIE SMITH: young people for sexual gratification —

MARIE SMITH: we have that in a separate box,

MARIE SMITH: shall we say, for the purposes of reporting

MARIE SMITH: and the response, of which we see.

MARIE SMITH: Because the financial element, particularly

MARIE SMITH: for children and young people, is relatively

MARIE SMITH: new, particularly within the last couple of

MARIE SMITH: years, we've slightly sectioned that out

MARIE SMITH: because also we need to work with our

MARIE SMITH: colleagues across our fraud teams.

MARIE SMITH: And because of that financial element there's

MARIE SMITH: a bit more crossover with regards to those

MARIE SMITH: threats within the National Crime Agency.

MARIE SMITH: So just to be very clear, I guess for us as

MARIE SMITH: well, we see young males being predominantly

MARIE SMITH: at risk. Not always, but the high majority of

MARIE SMITH: young males being at risk of the financial

MARIE SMITH: elements, and then I guess the more kind of

MARIE SMITH: sexual element we are still seeing a very

MARIE SMITH: high proportion of those being young females.

PRODUCER: Danielle, is that similar to what you're seeing

PRODUCER: on Childline?

DANIELLE HARRIS: We've used the term sexually coerced

DANIELLE HARRIS: extortion but we've also recognised the

DANIELLE HARRIS: differences in gender as well, so what

DANIELLE HARRIS: Marie was talking about in terms of how

DANIELLE HARRIS: boys are specifically more at risk in

DANIELLE HARRIS: terms of financially motivated online

DANIELLE HARRIS: extortion.

DANIELLE HARRIS: We see that in the counselling room when

DANIELLE HARRIS: young people are coming through to us.

DANIELLE HARRIS: Boys will talk about the financial

DANIELLE HARRIS: element of the extortion and girls will

DANIELLE HARRIS: talk more of the sexual extortion that

DANIELLE HARRIS: happens. So we are really seeing that in

DANIELLE HARRIS: the counselling room and through young

DANIELLE HARRIS: people coming to talk to us.

PRODUCER: A key point as well is that in 2023/24,

PRODUCER: more than two thirds of Childline counselling

PRODUCER: sessions about blackmail and threats to share

PRODUCER: sexual images were with boys.

PRODUCER: And I'm assuming, Danielle, that's what led to

PRODUCER: the Reach campaign. Is that correct?

DANIELLE HARRIS: Yeah, so when we started looking at

DANIELLE HARRIS: engaging boys, we know that as a service,

DANIELLE HARRIS: we speak to less boys in our live

DANIELLE HARRIS: contacts. So we wanted to look at the

DANIELLE HARRIS: different topics that were issues for

DANIELLE HARRIS: boys and what kept coming up in the data,

DANIELLE HARRIS: internally and externally, was

DANIELLE HARRIS: financially motivated extortion.

DANIELLE HARRIS: So what we found in Childline is when

DANIELLE HARRIS: boys do come to talk to a counsellor,

DANIELLE HARRIS: they are talking about sexual online

DANIELLE HARRIS: extortion and the financial motivated

DANIELLE HARRIS: side of it. And also we know from our

DANIELLE HARRIS: Report Remove data that significantly

DANIELLE HARRIS: more boys are using this.

DANIELLE HARRIS: Report Remove is our tool to get

DANIELLE HARRIS: nude images or videos removed off the

DANIELLE HARRIS: internet. So that was quite interesting

DANIELLE HARRIS: and just reflected the issue that

DANIELLE HARRIS: was here at present.

PRODUCER: Yeah. Marie, I wondered from an NCA perspective,

PRODUCER: why do you think the majority of known victims

PRODUCER: of the financially motivated sexual extortion

PRODUCER: are male?

MARIE SMITH: Yeah, I think there's a number of hypotheses

MARIE SMITH: around why this might be.

MARIE SMITH: I guess from our perspective, just a couple

MARIE SMITH: of top ones is that we're not just talking

MARIE SMITH: about teen males.

MARIE SMITH: So I guess we are talking about males more

MARIE SMITH: broadly being victims.

MARIE SMITH: The majority of reports that are coming

MARIE SMITH: through are roughly up to the age of about

MARIE SMITH: 30. So we definitely see reports from that

MARIE SMITH: point onwards.

MARIE SMITH: However, we're talking about the male

MARIE SMITH: population being at risk of this threat.

MARIE SMITH: Because we're the Child Protection

MARIE SMITH: Department, you know, an arena within the

MARIE SMITH: National Crime Agency, we're looking at

MARIE SMITH: under-18s specifically — so obviously what

MARIE SMITH: we're talking about today.

MARIE SMITH: These individuals are being targeted by

MARIE SMITH: organised crime groups based abroad.

MARIE SMITH: So these are... The whole purpose is that

MARIE SMITH: financial element.

MARIE SMITH: Sadly, they would have tested that.

MARIE SMITH: So there would've been an element at some

MARIE SMITH: point where they would look to see who is

MARIE SMITH: more likely to pay.

MARIE SMITH: So that would've being tested by these

MARIE SMITH: organised crime groups.

MARIE SMITH: I guess part of that [that] we're seeing is

MARIE SMITH: predominantly that the young female account

MARIE SMITH: is being used. So when they're starting some

MARIE SMITH: of those tactics, they're using online

MARIE SMITH: profiles pretending to be young, attractive

MARIE SMITH: females to, kind of, lure those young

MARIE SMITH: boys to their profiles.

MARIE SMITH: Or when they are actively asking them to

MARIE SMITH: share nude images, they're potentially even

MARIE SMITH: sharing images first, pretending it to be

MARIE SMITH: that female, so that there's an element of,

MARIE SMITH: you know, "I've swapped with you now, can you

MARIE SMITH: swap with me?" It can seem a little bit more

MARIE SMITH: fun. Obviously, any teenager around

MARIE SMITH: those kind of ages, between the ages of that

MARIE SMITH: 13 and 17 age bracket that we're currently

MARIE SMITH: looking at, are exploring their sexuality,

MARIE SMITH: their curiosity online,

MARIE SMITH: relationships online, what that means to

MARIE SMITH: them. So it's a really, kind of, particularly

MARIE SMITH: vulnerable time.

MARIE SMITH: I mean, there's a much broader discussion

MARIE SMITH: around young males and social norms

MARIE SMITH: and attitudes. Sometimes young boys can feel

MARIE SMITH: maybe a bit forced into doing things

MARIE SMITH: culturally that they might not want to do as

MARIE SMITH: well, because it's what men do or, you know,

MARIE SMITH: it's expected of them. Obviously that's not

MARIE SMITH: necessarily the case, or it might be the case

MARIE SMITH: in in their environment, so there's something

MARIE SMITH: here about talking to those young boys around

MARIE SMITH: what their values are online; what they would

MARIE SMITH: like to see within a potential relationship;

MARIE SMITH: or when things might move particularly

MARIE SMITH: quickly online, how does that make them feel?

MARIE SMITH: So it's stopping that moment and taking a

MARIE SMITH: breather and thinking about what that might

MARIE SMITH: look like. And I guess more broadly, but

MARIE SMITH: Danielle will be really, really up on this,

MARIE SMITH: is that boys are less likely to report, I

MARIE SMITH: guess, any form of crime and particularly

MARIE SMITH: sexual abuse more broadly.

MARIE SMITH: So it's really picking up on all of those

MARIE SMITH: vulnerabilities as some of those options.

DANIELLE HARRIS: We do definitely see a lot of boys coming

DANIELLE HARRIS: through talking about this and also, in

DANIELLE HARRIS: the respect of things happening quite

DANIELLE HARRIS: quickly online.

DANIELLE HARRIS: I think some misconceptions around

DANIELLE HARRIS: grooming is that it takes a long period

DANIELLE HARRIS: of time and actually with this type of

DANIELLE HARRIS: abuse it's happening within, I don't

DANIELLE HARRIS: know, half an hour in some cases.

DANIELLE HARRIS: I think the scary thing for me is the AI

DANIELLE HARRIS: that's involved in terms of the fake

DANIELLE HARRIS: profiles; how realistic these profiles

DANIELLE HARRIS: are looking. And actually, what Marie was

DANIELLE HARRIS: saying as well, we're seeing boys saying

DANIELLE HARRIS: that they've shared an image first — the

DANIELLE HARRIS: perpetrator has — and it looks real and

DANIELLE HARRIS: it's almost a false sense of security

DANIELLE HARRIS: in terms of building that relationship.

DANIELLE HARRIS: I think the other thing that's quite interesting

DANIELLE HARRIS: is reports of isolation are quite high,

DANIELLE HARRIS: which also feeds into this, I would say,

DANIELLE HARRIS: in terms of young boys trying to

DANIELLE HARRIS: make connections.

DANIELLE HARRIS: If they're not making those connections

DANIELLE HARRIS: in real life, they're seeking them out

DANIELLE HARRIS: online and that just adds additional

DANIELLE HARRIS: vulnerabilities for young boys.

MARIE SMITH: Yeah. And just to come in there as well, we

MARIE SMITH: did some research recently in the buildup

MARIE SMITH: to a campaign that we were putting out.

MARIE SMITH: So we commissioned some research with over

MARIE SMITH: 500 boys and we were

MARIE SMITH: seeing that 74% of them didn't understand

MARIE SMITH: or didn't see a request for a nude image as a

MARIE SMITH: potential attempt, a sextortion attempt.

MARIE SMITH: Again, 74% didn't fully understand what

MARIE SMITH: sextortion more broadly was, what that would

MARIE SMITH: look like, what it means for them.

MARIE SMITH: 73% didn't even know where to go to report if

MARIE SMITH: it was to happen to them as well.

MARIE SMITH: And I think what was strongly coming through

MARIE SMITH: the conversations that we were having is that

MARIE SMITH: they didn't really see themselves as victims

MARIE SMITH: as well. There was quite lots of

MARIE SMITH: victim-blaming language that was being used

MARIE SMITH: when talking about these kind of potential

MARIE SMITH: scenarios that we were presenting to them as

MARIE SMITH: well.

PRODUCER: And Marie, can I ask you a bit more about the

PRODUCER: mechanics of the financial extortion?

PRODUCER: What does that process look like?

PRODUCER: So say a young person has shared a

PRODUCER: self-generated image, what happens next?

MARIE SMITH: There's a number of ways in which this crime

MARIE SMITH: is committed. And I think it needs to be

MARIE SMITH: really clear to young boys: this is a crime —

MARIE SMITH: these are criminals who are targeting them —

MARIE SMITH: and particularly that they [the victims] are

MARIE SMITH: not to blame. Therefore, so even if an image

MARIE SMITH: has been shared by them first, they have been

MARIE SMITH: targeted for this very purpose.

MARIE SMITH: So I think that's a real barrier to reporting

MARIE SMITH: as well, is the fact that "well, I've shared

MARIE SMITH: an image and therefore have I broken the

MARIE SMITH: law?" And that's often what they'll be told

MARIE SMITH: by offenders online as well.

MARIE SMITH: And why particularly, as the National Crime

MARIE SMITH: Agency, we've got lots of materials out and

MARIE SMITH: now a campaign out, because we want to be

MARIE SMITH: telling young people we are law enforcement

MARIE SMITH: and we are telling you, you're not to blame.

MARIE SMITH: So if you're going to seek help from law

MARIE SMITH: enforcement, that message is being strongly

MARIE SMITH: put out across our community and to ensure

MARIE SMITH: that's not a barrier to come forward.

MARIE SMITH: Interestingly, what Danielle said there, we

MARIE SMITH: are seeing an increase in the use of AI.

MARIE SMITH: So that's definitely by, as Danielle said,

MARIE SMITH: the offenders using AI to pretend to be, for

MARIE SMITH: instance, a young female.

MARIE SMITH: But also sadly, there's AI images being

MARIE SMITH: generated where a young person hasn't shared

MARIE SMITH: an indecent image at all.

MARIE SMITH: So what they [the perpetrator] are coming to them

MARIE SMITH: is to say, "I have this image of you that

MARIE SMITH: I've created. Obviously I know it's fake,

MARIE SMITH: but the people I'm going to share it with

MARIE SMITH: don't." So it has the same impact.

MARIE SMITH: "I'm going to share it your parents, I'm

MARIE SMITH: going to share with your school, I'm going to

MARIE SMITH: send it amongst your classmates." Obviously

MARIE SMITH: it's very easy to piece together your

MARIE SMITH: communities online and those offline

MARIE SMITH: communities and we do see some of these

MARIE SMITH: threats being seen through.

MARIE SMITH: So I guess previously we would have said

MARIE SMITH: "it's a threat" and therefore it might not

MARIE SMITH: happen; but actually we do you see cases

MARIE SMITH: where those images are shared.

MARIE SMITH: So that makes it even harder for young people

MARIE SMITH: to seek support because they're potentially

MARIE SMITH: seeing some of this happening.

MARIE SMITH: It is very very serious now that we have

MARIE SMITH: these individuals contacting teens more

MARIE SMITH: broadly, adults as well, with images that

MARIE SMITH: they have made, and as Danielle said, they're

MARIE SMITH: becoming increasingly more realistic in their

MARIE SMITH: approach.

PRODUCER: Yeah, that really chimes with a quote I read in

PRODUCER: the NSPCC's Helplines insight briefing on this

PRODUCER: topic, which draws from contacts we've received

PRODUCER: to Childline, in which young people share their

PRODUCER: experiences of online sexual extortion.

PRODUCER: Everything's anonymised for the report, of

PRODUCER: course, but one of the young people featured in

PRODUCER: that report talks about how someone had produced

PRODUCER: a fake image of them, and they were really

PRODUCER: worried that, because it was so realistic, they

PRODUCER: wouldn't be able to convince people that it

PRODUCER: wasn't them. What do professionals need to

PRODUCER: know about the generative AI aspect

PRODUCER: of online sexual extortion?

MARIE SMITH: I think the really important thing for

MARIE SMITH: professionals to know, which we recently ran

MARIE SMITH: a study and nearly half of the professionals

MARIE SMITH: that we surveyed weren't aware, is

MARIE SMITH: that AI generated child abuse material is

MARIE SMITH: illegal. And I think there is just that

MARIE SMITH: concern [around] what to do with it.

MARIE SMITH: And actually what we're saying is you deal

MARIE SMITH: with those images in exactly the same way you

MARIE SMITH: would any other.

MARIE SMITH: So if there is an incident, you report it to

MARIE SMITH: the police. You do not share that image.

MARIE SMITH: There is guidance for professionals on what

MARIE SMITH: to do and how to respond to instances of nude

MARIE SMITH: image sharing that sits on [the UK government

MARIE SMITH: website]. We've created that at the National

MARIE SMITH: Crime Agency and worked with a number of

MARIE SMITH: different organisations, including the NSPCC,

MARIE SMITH: to ensure that it's the most up to date and

MARIE SMITH: most relevant procedures in there.

MARIE SMITH: So if you are an organisation working with

MARIE SMITH: young people, there is a potential that you

MARIE SMITH: would need to respond to this threat and it's

MARIE SMITH: really imperative that you have that and use

MARIE SMITH: it.

DANIELLE HARRIS: I would just jump in there.

DANIELLE HARRIS: In terms of Report Remove, it's exactly

DANIELLE HARRIS: the same. So for young people that want

DANIELLE HARRIS: to make a report to Report Remove, and

DANIELLE HARRIS: that they know that this image is AI, it

DANIELLE HARRIS: doesn't matter. It'll be treated exactly

DANIELLE HARRIS: the same.

PRODUCER: One thing that struck me earlier was the

PRODUCER: comment around how boys are potentially less

PRODUCER: likely to come forward if they are affected

PRODUCER: by online sexual extortion.

PRODUCER: Danielle, can you talk a bit more about the

PRODUCER: potential signs that a professional might be

PRODUCER: able to notice in a child or young person who

PRODUCER: may be being extorted.

DANIELLE HARRIS: I mean, it is very difficult because a

DANIELLE HARRIS: lot of the signs can resemble other signs

DANIELLE HARRIS: of different types of abuse.

DANIELLE HARRIS: So I think it's really important just to

DANIELLE HARRIS: say, staying curious and supportive

DANIELLE HARRIS: through whatever you're seeing is really

DANIELLE HARRIS: important. But there might be some

DANIELLE HARRIS: changes in behaviour.

DANIELLE HARRIS: So young people may appear more withdrawn

DANIELLE HARRIS: or worried or more stressed about

DANIELLE HARRIS: what's going on.

DANIELLE HARRIS: They might be a bit more secretive or

DANIELLE HARRIS: guarded about their devices.

DANIELLE HARRIS: They might talk about new online

DANIELLE HARRIS: friendships or connections that are

DANIELLE HARRIS: formed really quickly.

DANIELLE HARRIS: They might be spending a lot more time

DANIELLE HARRIS: online or you might sense that

DANIELLE HARRIS: certain apps or platforms that they're

DANIELLE HARRIS: using are becoming a source of anxiety.

DANIELLE HARRIS: The other one is they might be asking for

DANIELLE HARRIS: money with little or no explanation of

DANIELLE HARRIS: what they need it for or they might

DANIELLE HARRIS: trying to obtain funds without asking

DANIELLE HARRIS: permission for it. So, taking card

DANIELLE HARRIS: details and selling high value items

DANIELLE HARRIS: is another one. And I think what we're

DANIELLE HARRIS: seeing more often as well is payments

DANIELLE HARRIS: in forms of gift cards as well.

DANIELLE HARRIS: So they're all different signs.

DANIELLE HARRIS: But like I say, I think the main thing is

DANIELLE HARRIS: staying curious when exploring this.

MARIE SMITH: I think what Danielle said there was really

MARIE SMITH: important; and the gift card payment aspect,

MARIE SMITH: we definitely see that throughout the abuse

MARIE SMITH: that's taking place. Obviously, lots of

MARIE SMITH: people are more likely to be caught when

MARIE SMITH: going through traditional banking systems,

MARIE SMITH: so a way around that is to get young people

MARIE SMITH: to buy gift cards and then to send them the

MARIE SMITH: codes for those gift cards.

MARIE SMITH: So they're still responding to a financial

MARIE SMITH: demand in some respects, but it's just

MARIE SMITH: different to I guess what people might think.

MARIE SMITH: Yes, sometimes there is money.

MARIE SMITH: I guess the biggest message that we're trying

MARIE SMITH: to put out again from the National Crime

MARIE SMITH: Agency is do not pay.

MARIE SMITH: We really understand that that is

MARIE SMITH: tricky because when you're in a situation,

MARIE SMITH: when the demand's coming through, they're

MARIE SMITH: giving individuals very short amounts of time

MARIE SMITH: — so there potentially might be a clock

MARIE SMITH: ticking and a number of seconds that they

MARIE SMITH: would need to respond, otherwise their images

MARIE SMITH: are going viral, they would say.

MARIE SMITH: We need to be very clear that if they do pay

MARIE SMITH: — and we understand why people would want to,

MARIE SMITH: because you want to make it stop. And they

MARIE SMITH: start with quite low sums, so £10, for

MARIE SMITH: instance. The likelihood is that most teens

MARIE SMITH: would have access to — probably not all, but

MARIE SMITH: some — that amount.

MARIE SMITH: But if you are to do that, then you're

MARIE SMITH: showing that you can pay and it will not

MARIE SMITH: stop. So by doing that, will not make them

MARIE SMITH: cut contact and not return.

MARIE SMITH: I think that's just the explanation behind

MARIE SMITH: that do not pay message.

MARIE SMITH: And as Danielle mentioned earlier, the

MARIE SMITH: likelihood of this happening through the

MARIE SMITH: night and in a very short time scale is

MARIE SMITH: the most likely scenario.

MARIE SMITH: So we roughly see, with the whole process

MARIE SMITH: happening, as Danielle said, within half an

MARIE SMITH: hour to an hour. So much, much quicker than

MARIE SMITH: some of the other threats that we see.

MARIE SMITH: It's really, really vital that we involve

MARIE SMITH: parents and carers in the conversation

MARIE SMITH: because they are likely, hopefully, to

MARIE SMITH: be the people that are available to them at

MARIE SMITH: that time. We want parents and carers to be

MARIE SMITH: equipped that if their child was to come

MARIE SMITH: knocking on their door at 3am or come down

MARIE SMITH: the stairs as they're watching TV, would they

MARIE SMITH: know what to do?

MARIE SMITH: The likelihood is that probably not, and

MARIE SMITH: that's through no fault of their own.

MARIE SMITH: It's that they just haven't necessarily been

MARIE SMITH: exposed to what this is and how to respond.

MARIE SMITH: So, we've created parents and carers guidance

MARIE SMITH: that we've launched alongside a teen campaign

MARIE SMITH: last week, that very clearly explains how

MARIE SMITH: to have the conversation.

MARIE SMITH: Because again, that sounds simple, but really

MARIE SMITH: what we're talking about here is crime

MARIE SMITH: groups, organised crime groups based abroad,

MARIE SMITH: online sex and relationships, sexual

MARIE SMITH: curiosity. You know, there's so much involved

MARIE SMITH: within this. So some advice on how to that

MARIE SMITH: conversation. It's very easy to say to have

MARIE SMITH: it, but what does that look like in practice?

MARIE SMITH: And then those kind of really clear steps on

MARIE SMITH: what to do, which has don't pay, stop all

MARIE SMITH: contact, and to report.

PRODUCER: On the topic of having those conversations with

PRODUCER: children, Danielle, I wondered if you have any

PRODUCER: advice either for professionals or for

PRODUCER: parents and carers on some things to consider

PRODUCER: when talking to children about

PRODUCER: online sexual extortion.

DANIELLE HARRIS: I think, like Marie said, for me the most

DANIELLE HARRIS: important thing parents and professionals

DANIELLE HARRIS: can do in the first instance is be aware

DANIELLE HARRIS: of the issue.

DANIELLE HARRIS: Understand how it can present and the

DANIELLE HARRIS: impact that it can have on children.

DANIELLE HARRIS: Then by having open discussions with

DANIELLE HARRIS: young people around these topics, it will

DANIELLE HARRIS: help prevent [the issue], but also make

DANIELLE HARRIS: it feel safer for young people to come

DANIELLE HARRIS: and speak to parents and professional

DANIELLE HARRIS: should it happen.

DANIELLE HARRIS: I think one of the main barriers that we

DANIELLE HARRIS: see for a lot of young people that stops

DANIELLE HARRIS: them from speaking out is that fear of

DANIELLE HARRIS: being blamed.

DANIELLE HARRIS: We need to really avoid that

DANIELLE HARRIS: victim-blaming language and behaviours to

DANIELLE HARRIS: make sure that children feel safe and

DANIELLE HARRIS: able to come to get that support.

DANIELLE HARRIS: When we spoke to young people, when we

DANIELLE HARRIS: were developing our campaign, they were

DANIELLE HARRIS: talking about, you know, sharing nudes

DANIELLE HARRIS: has become normalised within young

DANIELLE HARRIS: people. And actually, it's really

DANIELLE HARRIS: embarrassing for a young person to even

DANIELLE HARRIS: approach an adult to talk about sharing a

DANIELLE HARRIS: nude, let alone the added layer of

DANIELLE HARRIS: extortion and blackmail that comes into

DANIELLE HARRIS: that as well. So, I think it's really

DANIELLE HARRIS: having that understanding of the impact

DANIELLE HARRIS: on the child and how difficult it is to

DANIELLE HARRIS: talk to an adult about what's going on.

DANIELLE HARRIS: Really having that empathetic and

DANIELLE HARRIS: supportive approach, being informed on

DANIELLE HARRIS: the actions that Marie has just talked

DANIELLE HARRIS: about and then being able to signpost

DANIELLE HARRIS: them into support services, like

DANIELLE HARRIS: Childline, so that we can support them

DANIELLE HARRIS: at their pace, and also Report Remove

DANIELLE HARRIS: in terms of practical steps to get nude

DANIELLE HARRIS: images and videos removed off the

DANIELLE HARRIS: internet.

PRODUCER: And you mentioned the Behind the Screen

PRODUCER: Childline campaign earlier.

PRODUCER: Please can you tell us a bit more about the

PRODUCER: resources that form part of that campaign?

DANIELLE HARRIS: Our Behind the Screen campaign has a

DANIELLE HARRIS: number of resources.

DANIELLE HARRIS: We have a professionals pack.

DANIELLE HARRIS: That professional pack looks at sexually

DANIELLE HARRIS: coerced extortion, the signs, what to

DANIELLE HARRIS: look out for, how to support young

DANIELLE HARRIS: people. There's a range of information on

DANIELLE HARRIS: Childline services in terms of our

DANIELLE HARRIS: confidentiality policy and what makes us

DANIELLE HARRIS: unique, as well as our online resources.

DANIELLE HARRIS: We've got a new Childline webpage

DANIELLE HARRIS: which is called 'trusting others online',

DANIELLE HARRIS: which was developed as part of this

DANIELLE HARRIS: campaign, which can be signposted as well

DANIELLE HARRIS: to children and young people.

DANIELLE HARRIS: We also have a video that was created, a

DANIELLE HARRIS: playful way of highlighting and

DANIELLE HARRIS: bringing awareness to fake profiles.

DANIELLE HARRIS: It's using male influencers aged —

DANIELLE HARRIS: I think they were about 19, so they're in

DANIELLE HARRIS: the age group — talking about how to

DANIELLE HARRIS: spot fake profiles online.

PRODUCER: Super. So yeah, lots of resources for

PRODUCER: professionals out there and we will put links to

PRODUCER: all of these in the podcast shownotes.

PRODUCER: Marie, I know that NCA has also done lots of

PRODUCER: work recently to help professionals understand

PRODUCER: and respond to online sexual extortion.

PRODUCER: Can you tell us more about those resources?

MARIE SMITH: Yeah, I think obviously, there's a lot of

MARIE SMITH: resources out there, which is great.

MARIE SMITH: People will be pleased to know that they

MARIE SMITH: complement each other. So when Danielle talks

MARIE SMITH: about Report Remove, that's a service that we

MARIE SMITH: highly reference throughout our resources as

MARIE SMITH: well. And I guess, just to be clear, we're

MARIE SMITH: ensuring that we are putting all of these

MARIE SMITH: online campaigns and things that we're doing

MARIE SMITH: in slightly different places for young people

MARIE SMITH: to see and using different approaches as

MARIE SMITH: well. Because as we know, sometimes you need

MARIE SMITH: to see things a number of times to engage

MARIE SMITH: with that in a number of different ways.

MARIE SMITH: We're all very different, we look at things

MARIE SMITH: differently, so it's great that there's so

MARIE SMITH: much out there.

MARIE SMITH: Last year we launched an alert to schools,

MARIE SMITH: the first of its kind.

MARIE SMITH: That reached an average of 320,000

MARIE SMITH: to 360,000 professionals, we believe.

MARIE SMITH: That's roughly two thirds of all teaching

MARIE SMITH: staff. If you've not seen that, then

MARIE SMITH: definitely give that a go and there's a

MARIE SMITH: parents and carer's letter that's in there

MARIE SMITH: that you can send out as well.

MARIE SMITH: Within there, there's a link to resources

MARIE SMITH: that can be used within the classroom, but we

MARIE SMITH: are also developing a new online blackmail

MARIE SMITH: resource that we've currently filmed.

MARIE SMITH: We're just piloting it and that'll be for

MARIE SMITH: launch in September.

MARIE SMITH: The campaign that we have running at the

MARIE SMITH: moment is predominantly on Snap and Instagram

MARIE SMITH: directly to young teens, male

MARIE SMITH: teens. And that resource is

MARIE SMITH: — the work that we did with the commissioned

MARIE SMITH: research that I mentioned, and also the

MARIE SMITH: piloting of that — is just really clear,

MARIE SMITH: simple messaging from law enforcement and

MARIE SMITH: particularly around that you are not to blame

MARIE SMITH: and to seek help message.

PRODUCER: I think that's a really good place to conclude

PRODUCER: our discussion for today.

PRODUCER: You can find links to all the resources we've

PRODUCER: discussed in this episode as well as further

PRODUCER: information about online sexual extortion in

PRODUCER: the podcast shownotes.

PRODUCER: You'll also find a link to the free Report

PRODUCER: Remove tool, which allows young people under 18

PRODUCER: in the UK to confidentially report sexual images

PRODUCER: and videos of themselves in effort to have them

PRODUCER: removed from the internet.

PRODUCER: All that's left for me to do is to say thank you

PRODUCER: to Marie and Danielle for joining me on the

PRODUCER: podcast today.

DANIELLE HARRIS: Thank you.

MARIE SMITH: Thank you very much.

PRODUCER: And thank you everyone for listening.

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INTRO: child protection is ever-changing.

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