INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where
INTRO: we share learning and expertise in child protection
INTRO: from inside and outside of the organisation.
INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and
INTRO: share good practice on how we can all work together
INTRO: to keep babies, children and young people safe.
PRODUCER: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast.
PRODUCER: Online technology and the ubiquity of
PRODUCER: smartphones have transformed the way that
PRODUCER: children and young people interact with others.
PRODUCER: This online landscape brings both benefits and
PRODUCER: risks, and one such risk is online sexual
PRODUCER: extortion.
PRODUCER: Online sexual extortion, also known as
PRODUCER: sextortion, is a form of online blackmail that
PRODUCER: involves the threat of sharing nude or semi-nude
PRODUCER: images or videos to extort money or force
PRODUCER: someone to do something against their will.
PRODUCER: In this podcast episode, recorded in March 2025,
PRODUCER: we'll be discussing what you can do to protect
PRODUCER: children from this form of abuse.
PRODUCER: I'm pleased to be joined by two expert guests to
PRODUCER: discuss the topic.
PRODUCER: Marie and Danielle, would you like to introduce
PRODUCER: yourselves, please?
DANIELLE HARRIS: Sure, my name is Danielle.
DANIELLE HARRIS: I'm a Childline Team Manager and I work
DANIELLE HARRIS: on our [Childline] Reach programme.
DANIELLE HARRIS: So the Reach programme is a programme of
DANIELLE HARRIS: work that looks at campaigns and
DANIELLE HARRIS: activities to reach children and young
DANIELLE HARRIS: people that we know as a service we're
DANIELLE HARRIS: less visible to.
DANIELLE HARRIS: And our most recent campaign is called
DANIELLE HARRIS: Behind the Screen, which looks at
DANIELLE HARRIS: reaching boys in terms of online sexual
DANIELLE HARRIS: extortion and raising awareness of this.
MARIE SMITH: Hey, hi. Thanks for having me.
MARIE SMITH: I'm Marie Smith. I oversee the CEOP education
MARIE SMITH: programme that's based within the National
MARIE SMITH: Crime Agency.
MARIE SMITH: We have resources that are run throughout
MARIE SMITH: schools for age groups 4 to 18,
MARIE SMITH: and a particular key threat of which we're
MARIE SMITH: focusing on at moment is what we're calling
MARIE SMITH: financially motivated sexual extortion.
PRODUCER: Fantastic. Thank you both for joining me today.
PRODUCER: I think that a good place to start is the point
PRODUCER: on terminology.
PRODUCER: So at the NSPCC, we use the term online sexual
PRODUCER: extortion to refer to the topic we're
PRODUCER: discussing.
PRODUCER: You've also might know this as sextortion as
PRODUCER: well. And Marie, as you said, at CEOP, you use
PRODUCER: the term financially motivated sexual extortion.
PRODUCER: All of those terms, we'll come across in
PRODUCER: our discussion today.
PRODUCER: Marie, I wonder if you could give us a quick
PRODUCER: introduction or a definition to what we mean
PRODUCER: when we say online sexual extortion.
MARIE SMITH: Yeah, of course.
MARIE SMITH: So we do a number of things at the National
MARIE SMITH: Crime Agency. And I guess within the CEOP
MARIE SMITH: child protection, child abuse arena,
MARIE SMITH: we have separated the sexual
MARIE SMITH: extortion — so that's the grooming of
MARIE SMITH: young people for sexual gratification —
MARIE SMITH: we have that in a separate box,
MARIE SMITH: shall we say, for the purposes of reporting
MARIE SMITH: and the response, of which we see.
MARIE SMITH: Because the financial element, particularly
MARIE SMITH: for children and young people, is relatively
MARIE SMITH: new, particularly within the last couple of
MARIE SMITH: years, we've slightly sectioned that out
MARIE SMITH: because also we need to work with our
MARIE SMITH: colleagues across our fraud teams.
MARIE SMITH: And because of that financial element there's
MARIE SMITH: a bit more crossover with regards to those
MARIE SMITH: threats within the National Crime Agency.
MARIE SMITH: So just to be very clear, I guess for us as
MARIE SMITH: well, we see young males being predominantly
MARIE SMITH: at risk. Not always, but the high majority of
MARIE SMITH: young males being at risk of the financial
MARIE SMITH: elements, and then I guess the more kind of
MARIE SMITH: sexual element we are still seeing a very
MARIE SMITH: high proportion of those being young females.
PRODUCER: Danielle, is that similar to what you're seeing
PRODUCER: on Childline?
DANIELLE HARRIS: We've used the term sexually coerced
DANIELLE HARRIS: extortion but we've also recognised the
DANIELLE HARRIS: differences in gender as well, so what
DANIELLE HARRIS: Marie was talking about in terms of how
DANIELLE HARRIS: boys are specifically more at risk in
DANIELLE HARRIS: terms of financially motivated online
DANIELLE HARRIS: extortion.
DANIELLE HARRIS: We see that in the counselling room when
DANIELLE HARRIS: young people are coming through to us.
DANIELLE HARRIS: Boys will talk about the financial
DANIELLE HARRIS: element of the extortion and girls will
DANIELLE HARRIS: talk more of the sexual extortion that
DANIELLE HARRIS: happens. So we are really seeing that in
DANIELLE HARRIS: the counselling room and through young
DANIELLE HARRIS: people coming to talk to us.
PRODUCER: A key point as well is that in 2023/24,
PRODUCER: more than two thirds of Childline counselling
PRODUCER: sessions about blackmail and threats to share
PRODUCER: sexual images were with boys.
PRODUCER: And I'm assuming, Danielle, that's what led to
PRODUCER: the Reach campaign. Is that correct?
DANIELLE HARRIS: Yeah, so when we started looking at
DANIELLE HARRIS: engaging boys, we know that as a service,
DANIELLE HARRIS: we speak to less boys in our live
DANIELLE HARRIS: contacts. So we wanted to look at the
DANIELLE HARRIS: different topics that were issues for
DANIELLE HARRIS: boys and what kept coming up in the data,
DANIELLE HARRIS: internally and externally, was
DANIELLE HARRIS: financially motivated extortion.
DANIELLE HARRIS: So what we found in Childline is when
DANIELLE HARRIS: boys do come to talk to a counsellor,
DANIELLE HARRIS: they are talking about sexual online
DANIELLE HARRIS: extortion and the financial motivated
DANIELLE HARRIS: side of it. And also we know from our
DANIELLE HARRIS: Report Remove data that significantly
DANIELLE HARRIS: more boys are using this.
DANIELLE HARRIS: Report Remove is our tool to get
DANIELLE HARRIS: nude images or videos removed off the
DANIELLE HARRIS: internet. So that was quite interesting
DANIELLE HARRIS: and just reflected the issue that
DANIELLE HARRIS: was here at present.
PRODUCER: Yeah. Marie, I wondered from an NCA perspective,
PRODUCER: why do you think the majority of known victims
PRODUCER: of the financially motivated sexual extortion
PRODUCER: are male?
MARIE SMITH: Yeah, I think there's a number of hypotheses
MARIE SMITH: around why this might be.
MARIE SMITH: I guess from our perspective, just a couple
MARIE SMITH: of top ones is that we're not just talking
MARIE SMITH: about teen males.
MARIE SMITH: So I guess we are talking about males more
MARIE SMITH: broadly being victims.
MARIE SMITH: The majority of reports that are coming
MARIE SMITH: through are roughly up to the age of about
MARIE SMITH: 30. So we definitely see reports from that
MARIE SMITH: point onwards.
MARIE SMITH: However, we're talking about the male
MARIE SMITH: population being at risk of this threat.
MARIE SMITH: Because we're the Child Protection
MARIE SMITH: Department, you know, an arena within the
MARIE SMITH: National Crime Agency, we're looking at
MARIE SMITH: under-18s specifically — so obviously what
MARIE SMITH: we're talking about today.
MARIE SMITH: These individuals are being targeted by
MARIE SMITH: organised crime groups based abroad.
MARIE SMITH: So these are... The whole purpose is that
MARIE SMITH: financial element.
MARIE SMITH: Sadly, they would have tested that.
MARIE SMITH: So there would've been an element at some
MARIE SMITH: point where they would look to see who is
MARIE SMITH: more likely to pay.
MARIE SMITH: So that would've being tested by these
MARIE SMITH: organised crime groups.
MARIE SMITH: I guess part of that [that] we're seeing is
MARIE SMITH: predominantly that the young female account
MARIE SMITH: is being used. So when they're starting some
MARIE SMITH: of those tactics, they're using online
MARIE SMITH: profiles pretending to be young, attractive
MARIE SMITH: females to, kind of, lure those young
MARIE SMITH: boys to their profiles.
MARIE SMITH: Or when they are actively asking them to
MARIE SMITH: share nude images, they're potentially even
MARIE SMITH: sharing images first, pretending it to be
MARIE SMITH: that female, so that there's an element of,
MARIE SMITH: you know, "I've swapped with you now, can you
MARIE SMITH: swap with me?" It can seem a little bit more
MARIE SMITH: fun. Obviously, any teenager around
MARIE SMITH: those kind of ages, between the ages of that
MARIE SMITH: 13 and 17 age bracket that we're currently
MARIE SMITH: looking at, are exploring their sexuality,
MARIE SMITH: their curiosity online,
MARIE SMITH: relationships online, what that means to
MARIE SMITH: them. So it's a really, kind of, particularly
MARIE SMITH: vulnerable time.
MARIE SMITH: I mean, there's a much broader discussion
MARIE SMITH: around young males and social norms
MARIE SMITH: and attitudes. Sometimes young boys can feel
MARIE SMITH: maybe a bit forced into doing things
MARIE SMITH: culturally that they might not want to do as
MARIE SMITH: well, because it's what men do or, you know,
MARIE SMITH: it's expected of them. Obviously that's not
MARIE SMITH: necessarily the case, or it might be the case
MARIE SMITH: in in their environment, so there's something
MARIE SMITH: here about talking to those young boys around
MARIE SMITH: what their values are online; what they would
MARIE SMITH: like to see within a potential relationship;
MARIE SMITH: or when things might move particularly
MARIE SMITH: quickly online, how does that make them feel?
MARIE SMITH: So it's stopping that moment and taking a
MARIE SMITH: breather and thinking about what that might
MARIE SMITH: look like. And I guess more broadly, but
MARIE SMITH: Danielle will be really, really up on this,
MARIE SMITH: is that boys are less likely to report, I
MARIE SMITH: guess, any form of crime and particularly
MARIE SMITH: sexual abuse more broadly.
MARIE SMITH: So it's really picking up on all of those
MARIE SMITH: vulnerabilities as some of those options.
DANIELLE HARRIS: We do definitely see a lot of boys coming
DANIELLE HARRIS: through talking about this and also, in
DANIELLE HARRIS: the respect of things happening quite
DANIELLE HARRIS: quickly online.
DANIELLE HARRIS: I think some misconceptions around
DANIELLE HARRIS: grooming is that it takes a long period
DANIELLE HARRIS: of time and actually with this type of
DANIELLE HARRIS: abuse it's happening within, I don't
DANIELLE HARRIS: know, half an hour in some cases.
DANIELLE HARRIS: I think the scary thing for me is the AI
DANIELLE HARRIS: that's involved in terms of the fake
DANIELLE HARRIS: profiles; how realistic these profiles
DANIELLE HARRIS: are looking. And actually, what Marie was
DANIELLE HARRIS: saying as well, we're seeing boys saying
DANIELLE HARRIS: that they've shared an image first — the
DANIELLE HARRIS: perpetrator has — and it looks real and
DANIELLE HARRIS: it's almost a false sense of security
DANIELLE HARRIS: in terms of building that relationship.
DANIELLE HARRIS: I think the other thing that's quite interesting
DANIELLE HARRIS: is reports of isolation are quite high,
DANIELLE HARRIS: which also feeds into this, I would say,
DANIELLE HARRIS: in terms of young boys trying to
DANIELLE HARRIS: make connections.
DANIELLE HARRIS: If they're not making those connections
DANIELLE HARRIS: in real life, they're seeking them out
DANIELLE HARRIS: online and that just adds additional
DANIELLE HARRIS: vulnerabilities for young boys.
MARIE SMITH: Yeah. And just to come in there as well, we
MARIE SMITH: did some research recently in the buildup
MARIE SMITH: to a campaign that we were putting out.
MARIE SMITH: So we commissioned some research with over
MARIE SMITH: 500 boys and we were
MARIE SMITH: seeing that 74% of them didn't understand
MARIE SMITH: or didn't see a request for a nude image as a
MARIE SMITH: potential attempt, a sextortion attempt.
MARIE SMITH: Again, 74% didn't fully understand what
MARIE SMITH: sextortion more broadly was, what that would
MARIE SMITH: look like, what it means for them.
MARIE SMITH: 73% didn't even know where to go to report if
MARIE SMITH: it was to happen to them as well.
MARIE SMITH: And I think what was strongly coming through
MARIE SMITH: the conversations that we were having is that
MARIE SMITH: they didn't really see themselves as victims
MARIE SMITH: as well. There was quite lots of
MARIE SMITH: victim-blaming language that was being used
MARIE SMITH: when talking about these kind of potential
MARIE SMITH: scenarios that we were presenting to them as
MARIE SMITH: well.
PRODUCER: And Marie, can I ask you a bit more about the
PRODUCER: mechanics of the financial extortion?
PRODUCER: What does that process look like?
PRODUCER: So say a young person has shared a
PRODUCER: self-generated image, what happens next?
MARIE SMITH: There's a number of ways in which this crime
MARIE SMITH: is committed. And I think it needs to be
MARIE SMITH: really clear to young boys: this is a crime —
MARIE SMITH: these are criminals who are targeting them —
MARIE SMITH: and particularly that they [the victims] are
MARIE SMITH: not to blame. Therefore, so even if an image
MARIE SMITH: has been shared by them first, they have been
MARIE SMITH: targeted for this very purpose.
MARIE SMITH: So I think that's a real barrier to reporting
MARIE SMITH: as well, is the fact that "well, I've shared
MARIE SMITH: an image and therefore have I broken the
MARIE SMITH: law?" And that's often what they'll be told
MARIE SMITH: by offenders online as well.
MARIE SMITH: And why particularly, as the National Crime
MARIE SMITH: Agency, we've got lots of materials out and
MARIE SMITH: now a campaign out, because we want to be
MARIE SMITH: telling young people we are law enforcement
MARIE SMITH: and we are telling you, you're not to blame.
MARIE SMITH: So if you're going to seek help from law
MARIE SMITH: enforcement, that message is being strongly
MARIE SMITH: put out across our community and to ensure
MARIE SMITH: that's not a barrier to come forward.
MARIE SMITH: Interestingly, what Danielle said there, we
MARIE SMITH: are seeing an increase in the use of AI.
MARIE SMITH: So that's definitely by, as Danielle said,
MARIE SMITH: the offenders using AI to pretend to be, for
MARIE SMITH: instance, a young female.
MARIE SMITH: But also sadly, there's AI images being
MARIE SMITH: generated where a young person hasn't shared
MARIE SMITH: an indecent image at all.
MARIE SMITH: So what they [the perpetrator] are coming to them
MARIE SMITH: is to say, "I have this image of you that
MARIE SMITH: I've created. Obviously I know it's fake,
MARIE SMITH: but the people I'm going to share it with
MARIE SMITH: don't." So it has the same impact.
MARIE SMITH: "I'm going to share it your parents, I'm
MARIE SMITH: going to share with your school, I'm going to
MARIE SMITH: send it amongst your classmates." Obviously
MARIE SMITH: it's very easy to piece together your
MARIE SMITH: communities online and those offline
MARIE SMITH: communities and we do see some of these
MARIE SMITH: threats being seen through.
MARIE SMITH: So I guess previously we would have said
MARIE SMITH: "it's a threat" and therefore it might not
MARIE SMITH: happen; but actually we do you see cases
MARIE SMITH: where those images are shared.
MARIE SMITH: So that makes it even harder for young people
MARIE SMITH: to seek support because they're potentially
MARIE SMITH: seeing some of this happening.
MARIE SMITH: It is very very serious now that we have
MARIE SMITH: these individuals contacting teens more
MARIE SMITH: broadly, adults as well, with images that
MARIE SMITH: they have made, and as Danielle said, they're
MARIE SMITH: becoming increasingly more realistic in their
MARIE SMITH: approach.
PRODUCER: Yeah, that really chimes with a quote I read in
PRODUCER: the NSPCC's Helplines insight briefing on this
PRODUCER: topic, which draws from contacts we've received
PRODUCER: to Childline, in which young people share their
PRODUCER: experiences of online sexual extortion.
PRODUCER: Everything's anonymised for the report, of
PRODUCER: course, but one of the young people featured in
PRODUCER: that report talks about how someone had produced
PRODUCER: a fake image of them, and they were really
PRODUCER: worried that, because it was so realistic, they
PRODUCER: wouldn't be able to convince people that it
PRODUCER: wasn't them. What do professionals need to
PRODUCER: know about the generative AI aspect
PRODUCER: of online sexual extortion?
MARIE SMITH: I think the really important thing for
MARIE SMITH: professionals to know, which we recently ran
MARIE SMITH: a study and nearly half of the professionals
MARIE SMITH: that we surveyed weren't aware, is
MARIE SMITH: that AI generated child abuse material is
MARIE SMITH: illegal. And I think there is just that
MARIE SMITH: concern [around] what to do with it.
MARIE SMITH: And actually what we're saying is you deal
MARIE SMITH: with those images in exactly the same way you
MARIE SMITH: would any other.
MARIE SMITH: So if there is an incident, you report it to
MARIE SMITH: the police. You do not share that image.
MARIE SMITH: There is guidance for professionals on what
MARIE SMITH: to do and how to respond to instances of nude
MARIE SMITH: image sharing that sits on [the UK government
MARIE SMITH: website]. We've created that at the National
MARIE SMITH: Crime Agency and worked with a number of
MARIE SMITH: different organisations, including the NSPCC,
MARIE SMITH: to ensure that it's the most up to date and
MARIE SMITH: most relevant procedures in there.
MARIE SMITH: So if you are an organisation working with
MARIE SMITH: young people, there is a potential that you
MARIE SMITH: would need to respond to this threat and it's
MARIE SMITH: really imperative that you have that and use
MARIE SMITH: it.
DANIELLE HARRIS: I would just jump in there.
DANIELLE HARRIS: In terms of Report Remove, it's exactly
DANIELLE HARRIS: the same. So for young people that want
DANIELLE HARRIS: to make a report to Report Remove, and
DANIELLE HARRIS: that they know that this image is AI, it
DANIELLE HARRIS: doesn't matter. It'll be treated exactly
DANIELLE HARRIS: the same.
PRODUCER: One thing that struck me earlier was the
PRODUCER: comment around how boys are potentially less
PRODUCER: likely to come forward if they are affected
PRODUCER: by online sexual extortion.
PRODUCER: Danielle, can you talk a bit more about the
PRODUCER: potential signs that a professional might be
PRODUCER: able to notice in a child or young person who
PRODUCER: may be being extorted.
DANIELLE HARRIS: I mean, it is very difficult because a
DANIELLE HARRIS: lot of the signs can resemble other signs
DANIELLE HARRIS: of different types of abuse.
DANIELLE HARRIS: So I think it's really important just to
DANIELLE HARRIS: say, staying curious and supportive
DANIELLE HARRIS: through whatever you're seeing is really
DANIELLE HARRIS: important. But there might be some
DANIELLE HARRIS: changes in behaviour.
DANIELLE HARRIS: So young people may appear more withdrawn
DANIELLE HARRIS: or worried or more stressed about
DANIELLE HARRIS: what's going on.
DANIELLE HARRIS: They might be a bit more secretive or
DANIELLE HARRIS: guarded about their devices.
DANIELLE HARRIS: They might talk about new online
DANIELLE HARRIS: friendships or connections that are
DANIELLE HARRIS: formed really quickly.
DANIELLE HARRIS: They might be spending a lot more time
DANIELLE HARRIS: online or you might sense that
DANIELLE HARRIS: certain apps or platforms that they're
DANIELLE HARRIS: using are becoming a source of anxiety.
DANIELLE HARRIS: The other one is they might be asking for
DANIELLE HARRIS: money with little or no explanation of
DANIELLE HARRIS: what they need it for or they might
DANIELLE HARRIS: trying to obtain funds without asking
DANIELLE HARRIS: permission for it. So, taking card
DANIELLE HARRIS: details and selling high value items
DANIELLE HARRIS: is another one. And I think what we're
DANIELLE HARRIS: seeing more often as well is payments
DANIELLE HARRIS: in forms of gift cards as well.
DANIELLE HARRIS: So they're all different signs.
DANIELLE HARRIS: But like I say, I think the main thing is
DANIELLE HARRIS: staying curious when exploring this.
MARIE SMITH: I think what Danielle said there was really
MARIE SMITH: important; and the gift card payment aspect,
MARIE SMITH: we definitely see that throughout the abuse
MARIE SMITH: that's taking place. Obviously, lots of
MARIE SMITH: people are more likely to be caught when
MARIE SMITH: going through traditional banking systems,
MARIE SMITH: so a way around that is to get young people
MARIE SMITH: to buy gift cards and then to send them the
MARIE SMITH: codes for those gift cards.
MARIE SMITH: So they're still responding to a financial
MARIE SMITH: demand in some respects, but it's just
MARIE SMITH: different to I guess what people might think.
MARIE SMITH: Yes, sometimes there is money.
MARIE SMITH: I guess the biggest message that we're trying
MARIE SMITH: to put out again from the National Crime
MARIE SMITH: Agency is do not pay.
MARIE SMITH: We really understand that that is
MARIE SMITH: tricky because when you're in a situation,
MARIE SMITH: when the demand's coming through, they're
MARIE SMITH: giving individuals very short amounts of time
MARIE SMITH: — so there potentially might be a clock
MARIE SMITH: ticking and a number of seconds that they
MARIE SMITH: would need to respond, otherwise their images
MARIE SMITH: are going viral, they would say.
MARIE SMITH: We need to be very clear that if they do pay
MARIE SMITH: — and we understand why people would want to,
MARIE SMITH: because you want to make it stop. And they
MARIE SMITH: start with quite low sums, so £10, for
MARIE SMITH: instance. The likelihood is that most teens
MARIE SMITH: would have access to — probably not all, but
MARIE SMITH: some — that amount.
MARIE SMITH: But if you are to do that, then you're
MARIE SMITH: showing that you can pay and it will not
MARIE SMITH: stop. So by doing that, will not make them
MARIE SMITH: cut contact and not return.
MARIE SMITH: I think that's just the explanation behind
MARIE SMITH: that do not pay message.
MARIE SMITH: And as Danielle mentioned earlier, the
MARIE SMITH: likelihood of this happening through the
MARIE SMITH: night and in a very short time scale is
MARIE SMITH: the most likely scenario.
MARIE SMITH: So we roughly see, with the whole process
MARIE SMITH: happening, as Danielle said, within half an
MARIE SMITH: hour to an hour. So much, much quicker than
MARIE SMITH: some of the other threats that we see.
MARIE SMITH: It's really, really vital that we involve
MARIE SMITH: parents and carers in the conversation
MARIE SMITH: because they are likely, hopefully, to
MARIE SMITH: be the people that are available to them at
MARIE SMITH: that time. We want parents and carers to be
MARIE SMITH: equipped that if their child was to come
MARIE SMITH: knocking on their door at 3am or come down
MARIE SMITH: the stairs as they're watching TV, would they
MARIE SMITH: know what to do?
MARIE SMITH: The likelihood is that probably not, and
MARIE SMITH: that's through no fault of their own.
MARIE SMITH: It's that they just haven't necessarily been
MARIE SMITH: exposed to what this is and how to respond.
MARIE SMITH: So, we've created parents and carers guidance
MARIE SMITH: that we've launched alongside a teen campaign
MARIE SMITH: last week, that very clearly explains how
MARIE SMITH: to have the conversation.
MARIE SMITH: Because again, that sounds simple, but really
MARIE SMITH: what we're talking about here is crime
MARIE SMITH: groups, organised crime groups based abroad,
MARIE SMITH: online sex and relationships, sexual
MARIE SMITH: curiosity. You know, there's so much involved
MARIE SMITH: within this. So some advice on how to that
MARIE SMITH: conversation. It's very easy to say to have
MARIE SMITH: it, but what does that look like in practice?
MARIE SMITH: And then those kind of really clear steps on
MARIE SMITH: what to do, which has don't pay, stop all
MARIE SMITH: contact, and to report.
PRODUCER: On the topic of having those conversations with
PRODUCER: children, Danielle, I wondered if you have any
PRODUCER: advice either for professionals or for
PRODUCER: parents and carers on some things to consider
PRODUCER: when talking to children about
PRODUCER: online sexual extortion.
DANIELLE HARRIS: I think, like Marie said, for me the most
DANIELLE HARRIS: important thing parents and professionals
DANIELLE HARRIS: can do in the first instance is be aware
DANIELLE HARRIS: of the issue.
DANIELLE HARRIS: Understand how it can present and the
DANIELLE HARRIS: impact that it can have on children.
DANIELLE HARRIS: Then by having open discussions with
DANIELLE HARRIS: young people around these topics, it will
DANIELLE HARRIS: help prevent [the issue], but also make
DANIELLE HARRIS: it feel safer for young people to come
DANIELLE HARRIS: and speak to parents and professional
DANIELLE HARRIS: should it happen.
DANIELLE HARRIS: I think one of the main barriers that we
DANIELLE HARRIS: see for a lot of young people that stops
DANIELLE HARRIS: them from speaking out is that fear of
DANIELLE HARRIS: being blamed.
DANIELLE HARRIS: We need to really avoid that
DANIELLE HARRIS: victim-blaming language and behaviours to
DANIELLE HARRIS: make sure that children feel safe and
DANIELLE HARRIS: able to come to get that support.
DANIELLE HARRIS: When we spoke to young people, when we
DANIELLE HARRIS: were developing our campaign, they were
DANIELLE HARRIS: talking about, you know, sharing nudes
DANIELLE HARRIS: has become normalised within young
DANIELLE HARRIS: people. And actually, it's really
DANIELLE HARRIS: embarrassing for a young person to even
DANIELLE HARRIS: approach an adult to talk about sharing a
DANIELLE HARRIS: nude, let alone the added layer of
DANIELLE HARRIS: extortion and blackmail that comes into
DANIELLE HARRIS: that as well. So, I think it's really
DANIELLE HARRIS: having that understanding of the impact
DANIELLE HARRIS: on the child and how difficult it is to
DANIELLE HARRIS: talk to an adult about what's going on.
DANIELLE HARRIS: Really having that empathetic and
DANIELLE HARRIS: supportive approach, being informed on
DANIELLE HARRIS: the actions that Marie has just talked
DANIELLE HARRIS: about and then being able to signpost
DANIELLE HARRIS: them into support services, like
DANIELLE HARRIS: Childline, so that we can support them
DANIELLE HARRIS: at their pace, and also Report Remove
DANIELLE HARRIS: in terms of practical steps to get nude
DANIELLE HARRIS: images and videos removed off the
DANIELLE HARRIS: internet.
PRODUCER: And you mentioned the Behind the Screen
PRODUCER: Childline campaign earlier.
PRODUCER: Please can you tell us a bit more about the
PRODUCER: resources that form part of that campaign?
DANIELLE HARRIS: Our Behind the Screen campaign has a
DANIELLE HARRIS: number of resources.
DANIELLE HARRIS: We have a professionals pack.
DANIELLE HARRIS: That professional pack looks at sexually
DANIELLE HARRIS: coerced extortion, the signs, what to
DANIELLE HARRIS: look out for, how to support young
DANIELLE HARRIS: people. There's a range of information on
DANIELLE HARRIS: Childline services in terms of our
DANIELLE HARRIS: confidentiality policy and what makes us
DANIELLE HARRIS: unique, as well as our online resources.
DANIELLE HARRIS: We've got a new Childline webpage
DANIELLE HARRIS: which is called 'trusting others online',
DANIELLE HARRIS: which was developed as part of this
DANIELLE HARRIS: campaign, which can be signposted as well
DANIELLE HARRIS: to children and young people.
DANIELLE HARRIS: We also have a video that was created, a
DANIELLE HARRIS: playful way of highlighting and
DANIELLE HARRIS: bringing awareness to fake profiles.
DANIELLE HARRIS: It's using male influencers aged —
DANIELLE HARRIS: I think they were about 19, so they're in
DANIELLE HARRIS: the age group — talking about how to
DANIELLE HARRIS: spot fake profiles online.
PRODUCER: Super. So yeah, lots of resources for
PRODUCER: professionals out there and we will put links to
PRODUCER: all of these in the podcast shownotes.
PRODUCER: Marie, I know that NCA has also done lots of
PRODUCER: work recently to help professionals understand
PRODUCER: and respond to online sexual extortion.
PRODUCER: Can you tell us more about those resources?
MARIE SMITH: Yeah, I think obviously, there's a lot of
MARIE SMITH: resources out there, which is great.
MARIE SMITH: People will be pleased to know that they
MARIE SMITH: complement each other. So when Danielle talks
MARIE SMITH: about Report Remove, that's a service that we
MARIE SMITH: highly reference throughout our resources as
MARIE SMITH: well. And I guess, just to be clear, we're
MARIE SMITH: ensuring that we are putting all of these
MARIE SMITH: online campaigns and things that we're doing
MARIE SMITH: in slightly different places for young people
MARIE SMITH: to see and using different approaches as
MARIE SMITH: well. Because as we know, sometimes you need
MARIE SMITH: to see things a number of times to engage
MARIE SMITH: with that in a number of different ways.
MARIE SMITH: We're all very different, we look at things
MARIE SMITH: differently, so it's great that there's so
MARIE SMITH: much out there.
MARIE SMITH: Last year we launched an alert to schools,
MARIE SMITH: the first of its kind.
MARIE SMITH: That reached an average of 320,000
MARIE SMITH: to 360,000 professionals, we believe.
MARIE SMITH: That's roughly two thirds of all teaching
MARIE SMITH: staff. If you've not seen that, then
MARIE SMITH: definitely give that a go and there's a
MARIE SMITH: parents and carer's letter that's in there
MARIE SMITH: that you can send out as well.
MARIE SMITH: Within there, there's a link to resources
MARIE SMITH: that can be used within the classroom, but we
MARIE SMITH: are also developing a new online blackmail
MARIE SMITH: resource that we've currently filmed.
MARIE SMITH: We're just piloting it and that'll be for
MARIE SMITH: launch in September.
MARIE SMITH: The campaign that we have running at the
MARIE SMITH: moment is predominantly on Snap and Instagram
MARIE SMITH: directly to young teens, male
MARIE SMITH: teens. And that resource is
MARIE SMITH: — the work that we did with the commissioned
MARIE SMITH: research that I mentioned, and also the
MARIE SMITH: piloting of that — is just really clear,
MARIE SMITH: simple messaging from law enforcement and
MARIE SMITH: particularly around that you are not to blame
MARIE SMITH: and to seek help message.
PRODUCER: I think that's a really good place to conclude
PRODUCER: our discussion for today.
PRODUCER: You can find links to all the resources we've
PRODUCER: discussed in this episode as well as further
PRODUCER: information about online sexual extortion in
PRODUCER: the podcast shownotes.
PRODUCER: You'll also find a link to the free Report
PRODUCER: Remove tool, which allows young people under 18
PRODUCER: in the UK to confidentially report sexual images
PRODUCER: and videos of themselves in effort to have them
PRODUCER: removed from the internet.
PRODUCER: All that's left for me to do is to say thank you
PRODUCER: to Marie and Danielle for joining me on the
PRODUCER: podcast today.
DANIELLE HARRIS: Thank you.
MARIE SMITH: Thank you very much.
PRODUCER: And thank you everyone for listening.
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