00:00:00:00 - 00:00:25:11
Unknown
Welcome to our weekly livestream recording of the Emanating, a podcast series devoted to acquisition entrepreneurs, search funds and how co builders in the UK, EU and beyond. We discussed the topics and challenges that impacts SMB, fashion, M&A and explore the highs and lows of searching, acquiring, owning and operating small and medium sized businesses. This week we're very excited to interview for you and some of those taking a maybe slightly different path.

00:00:25:11 - 00:00:46:08
Unknown
So I speak to lots of searches all the time that are out for this white whale. Let's see one big acquisition at the start. And I met Karl. I'll see you at a car symposium. He took a slightly different route and I thought was very interesting. And I'd like to share with you. So if you are looking to complete your first acquisition, especially stick around for the rest of this episode because I think you might pick up some interesting tips.

00:00:46:08 - 00:01:06:06
Unknown
So first off, Cao, thanks for joining me. Awesome. Thanks, Alfie. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here. Yes. And I know that you have a few other episodes and you join us for the the theoretical symposium. How did you enjoy the event? As good. Yeah, the symposium was good networking event. Met some. That's good conversation. That's good.

00:01:06:06 - 00:01:29:16
Unknown
People managed to pin down some of the venture capitalist guys as well and have a chat with them to see how they're how they're going and kind of what their investment criteria was, as well as like the software that's coming out, like with you guys and the other gentleman that was there with his. Yeah. Is a kind of fund search or whatever show with deal flow agent.

00:01:29:16 - 00:01:48:17
Unknown
Yeah. Really interesting stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Also I mean, it's just crazy but yeah he's obviously that pretty hot as I imagine you guys are. Yeah, I was the topic of the day, Piers. Lenny's talk at the start was super popular as well as sort of A.I.. So post-acquisition, I think that was really illuminating for a lot of people.

00:01:48:19 - 00:02:17:01
Unknown
Yeah, for sure. Okay, so before we dive too deep into your acquisition, that's obviously what we really want to get into. Let's learn a little bit about you. So what's your professional background count and how did you that leads you into HCI? Yeah, I'm going to council by trade, originally from Australia, from Perth, trained there, originally a startup BDO in international and corporate tax.

00:02:17:03 - 00:02:43:15
Unknown
Didn't really like that too much, then moved into insolvency. So was doing, you know, liquidations, turnarounds, you know, trying to try to sell businesses if we could save them. But generally that that wasn't the cases with insolvency easier generally selling off bits and pieces. But I thought that was really good experience in terms of getting into managing businesses, because if you think about it, insolvency situation, when is when the practitioners come in, they're replacing the directors.

00:02:43:15 - 00:03:03:12
Unknown
So as a young like 23 year old, I was going in and with my managers, but a lot of time just left me to it to manage teams and kind of see what we could do in terms of taking place around trustees. So we were sort of boots on the ground experience from early on for you. Yeah, yes I do.

00:03:03:12 - 00:03:43:04
Unknown
My chartered accountancy there did some insolvency law qualifications as well, which are very useful in the UK, but then you go and yeah, London like 11 years ago now and just moved over to it myself as an independent consultant just as a kind of business analyst primarily, which is jack of all trades type of role away. I was actually going into various companies, a lot of government work fixing problems where you come in for a short period of where to cover someone or just looking at issue and then you unpick it and try and come up with with what you what, what the recommendation approach is to fix it.

00:03:43:04 - 00:04:03:07
Unknown
And then you see that rolls into the next problem and the next problem and the next thing. And that's kind of like what I've been doing consultancy wise in the UK and still doing that while I've gone through this acquisition. And I'm still I'm still working as a consultant because the acquisition isn't paying for the bills. So if I'd be one of my tips is keep your job if you can.

00:04:03:09 - 00:04:24:00
Unknown
That's I mean, that's a great piece of advice. I think that's there's lots of other people that end up in that same situation. I think being prepared for that is is a smart thing going to say, you know, coming from the insolvency background. I think that's really interesting. Some great experience because lots of people only start to come across those kinds of issues at the point of after of owning a business.

00:04:24:00 - 00:04:40:05
Unknown
Yeah, some people come and just they never bought business before or really operates at that level. Some people have operated, but only other businesses that perhaps haven't been through that. So you've seen first hand, you know, the problems that caused businesses to go down the insolvency route and how to fix those. And you've been doing so for a long time.

00:04:40:08 - 00:05:06:19
Unknown
That puts you in a good sort of driving seat to be a great operator. That's the thinking. Yeah. We'll say. And so what was it that took you from that to FCA? What sparked your interest initially in acquiring a business? So I was I've got another business as well, which is I started six or seven years ago with a few metals consulting with a couple of Aussie mates.

00:05:06:19 - 00:05:29:05
Unknown
Well, then moved over to London and we built houses in South London. Wow, I've been doing that for a while and just small, small sites like just one, two, three, four units, nothing too huge, but just the lumpiness of that business. I was really just just getting to me like it's quite stressful act when you've got hundreds of thousands of cash.

00:05:29:05 - 00:05:52:14
Unknown
It's just leaves your bank account and then you're waiting on the winds for the market to whether you're going to sell these houses or not. You know, what's going on with interest rates is a bit, you know, a huge impact on what you're going to be making any money or not. So I started looking. I was just basically looking for ways to have some stable cash flow in that business and just went down the rabbit hole, found a whole bunch of people.

00:05:52:14 - 00:06:17:02
Unknown
John, John, Jay, Jeremy Harbor, watch a lot of their stuff and then went into yeah, it started started the search really. I was convinced by it and was makes sense. Okay, this looks like we can grab by someone else's 1020 years plus business and plug that into my business. And that that sounds lovely. It sounds beautiful. And then hopefully it's not operating too well.

00:06:17:02 - 00:06:44:16
Unknown
So I can I can grow it and cut it off. Yeah. To start off with the property, looking at looking like property sector. Okay. And gut got to the finish line on a whole bunch of one on three deals in particular. Am I mate. I've ended up in health but my mate who, who's brought me into health, he's a radiologist, he's my business partner, he's like, Man, you just keep getting blue boat, even blue bolts.

00:06:44:16 - 00:07:05:01
Unknown
So you get to come over to health, take a look at it. I mean, that's one of interesting learning for anybody that is is getting into this, because I speak to lots of people that get to that same point. I mean, I start calling it blue balling, but I have at this point. Yeah, but lots of people do gets that kind of almost sort of moment of completion of a deal and a full story.

00:07:05:02 - 00:07:35:18
Unknown
I mean, do you mind sharing what you know, what happened to some of those? Yes, I think I've been self-funded, etc. and I think it's probably just a learning curve being self-funded searcher of every time I was getting further along or down at the acquisition stages, if you like, I just kept there was just something that would go well and then it would either be your second one goes, I could have handled it differently and probably would have actually got a deal there or I should have walked away from it or whatever.

00:07:35:18 - 00:08:03:00
Unknown
Was it, as you can find excuse to blame yourself, but a lot of it is just kind of like, yeah, the learning process. So I had a the first one I was I've got after six months, I was a electrician and I was around St Albans and he was a good size. 1.1 turnover had just put in some systems in the previous 12 months which enabled him to grow, had a good team around him and a lot of uncertainty around that.

00:08:03:00 - 00:08:28:01
Unknown
I had around like how Reliant and business was on it with him, but his whole thing was he just had enough. He's like, I want to move to Spain, my partner's move to Spain, I'm behind. I need to get rid of this thing. I need to be out within three months. Wow. And I had booked my son a holiday to go to Greece, settling in Greece, and my wife wasn't going to let me get out of that.

00:08:28:01 - 00:08:49:08
Unknown
All work was in the boat. Over that week. I had some finance terms that I had said to him I was going to get in before I left and would send to him. So think about over the week and then we'd hopefully do a deal. When I got back during that week, I didn't get his terms in time, and then someone else he was speaking to did get terms to him so that during the week I was away, so I missed out and it would have been a it would've been a great one.

00:08:49:09 - 00:09:07:19
Unknown
Like, well, in terms of that, the numbers, it was a no money down deal. It was, you know, it's taking a lot of the boxes with a lot of uncertainty still around door lights on him. That's the first one that that's I mean, it sounds like a great business on paper, especially with the level of motivation from the seller.

00:09:07:19 - 00:09:38:19
Unknown
I hope selling in Greece was was worth it. Yeah, but I'm still married, so I guess that's a more fluid thing there. Actually. It's not about saving. Yeah, you're absolutely right. One was a in the Midlands, New Wales West Midlands and it was a pole planting business. So this dispossess pole planting is you see your, your power lines either on like a wooden hole, it's in the ground.

00:09:39:00 - 00:10:02:02
Unknown
So those poles, they degrade over time someone's going to come out and replace them. Happens every depending where it is. And that kind of the quality of how it's being planted, those kind of stuff. But that happens like every 20 to 30 years or something like that. So this one business had a had a big contract with the utilities provider in the area and expanding actually.

00:10:02:03 - 00:10:27:09
Unknown
And this gentleman was in the sixties and his dad had started the business and he wanted to pass onto his son, but his son didn't want to be someone to work in the business. So that was a great that's a nice story and great kind of scenario of how it was all coming together. What happened was me, I think it was communication breakdown in terms of the deal I was putting forward and how much money he was going to get on day one.

00:10:27:11 - 00:10:54:14
Unknown
Okay, So I was this is another no money down deal. So I was going to basically he's got all these trucks and all these JD Jacobs, which is how he runs the business and they're kind of spread out throughout the Midlands where he's got his area, his patch, the does this pole planting and pay for the valuation to happen, told him what I thought he was going to, I was going to pay him on day one and the rest was going to get deferred over ten years at.

00:10:54:18 - 00:11:20:03
Unknown
Plus he would want to work as a consultant within the business and get a top up his income if he needed to. We get to the valuation kind of where a couple of months in and just after fall apart. And the reason it fell apart was because his wife didn't trust me and wasn't didn't want the deal because she was concerned that she was going to have to maintain the lifestyle and pull as much out of the businesses as what they were doing already.

00:11:20:05 - 00:11:41:04
Unknown
So that was a huge loss. And I was like, You can't win the wife over. Just give up because if she doesn't like you or she's she's not into it, You're you're in trouble. Yeah. I also I think that's absolutely true. I think everybody does need to be on board. Do you think perhaps also the long terms had part of that because they have to trust you for ten years, you know, to get that power over that amount of time?

00:11:41:05 - 00:12:02:12
Unknown
Do you think maybe that factored into it or could have could have I mean, I started off from negotiating from data not telling him in the first meetings going like this is how, you know, if there's a kind of structure, I'm thinking about it. This is how I think it's going to work and just try and lean on the partnership kind of model.

00:12:02:14 - 00:12:16:13
Unknown
Want to keep you around, want to keep you employed, want to do basically work together to do a handover. It's less me buying it and more of us working together to get the deal across the line and get something that works for everyone.

00:12:16:14 - 00:12:39:08
Unknown
Yeah, he was he was quite motivated. He had he had some injuries and was getting bit sick and like was having difficulty walking around, had had a had a hip replacement and the other one was going and just body was falling apart. So he was like, Yeah, I think you want someone to come in, but I think I could have got a deal there like without the wife.

00:12:39:09 - 00:13:01:04
Unknown
Like it felt like as soon as I wasn't in regular contact with him, it would just go off me. And when, when I went over there and was like to go out for dinner and stuff like that, she was always a bit cold and kind of like about it, I could just sense it wasn't. And then on the final call that I had with him as accountant and his wife to kind of go through it is like a last effort.

00:13:01:04 - 00:13:22:02
Unknown
She just basically took over the call and said, How can you expect us to live on what you're offering? How have you expect this to be? This isn't it. I'm not going to maintain my lifestyle. I don't think is going to work for us. So she just basically, yeah, took over as the lead negotiator. And I think that's that's so, so interesting.

00:13:22:02 - 00:13:44:17
Unknown
So it's a communications breakdown, but possibly between the seller and his wife rather than anything that you've done wrong because it does in your terms from the start, then perhaps they weren't being adequately conveyed back at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Potentially. That's that's frustrating. That's frustrating. And how did you try and it starts to interrupt you. How did you transition from these kinds of companies?

00:13:44:17 - 00:14:12:05
Unknown
So you said that your friend was a radiographer. I mean, he had, you considered, you know, health at all before? Was this, you know, purely sort of driven by your your relationship, your friend? Yeah. So a mate from that I went to high school with actually he was doing a fellowship in Birmingham and he was just couch surfing on my place on weekends or where I had a bit of a holiday and he was just telling about what I was doing and I was only looking in construction property space.

00:14:12:06 - 00:14:34:19
Unknown
And he said just to have a look at physios. And he's like The Australian model of physiotherapy and integrated health care of in Aussie typically go to a physio and although at the time you'd have a diagnostic service alongside it or you have some other service that's in the same building at a complement. So you have an internal referral system and that's just not really around here.

00:14:35:01 - 00:14:50:01
Unknown
You don't see it. And so he's like, why don't we look at look at for physios? He's like, I'll, I'll bring in the diagnostic service, which is high margin as well as I'll just take a look at some video, see what, see what you think, see if that if that kind of like stacks up with what you look at limit.

00:14:50:03 - 00:15:24:04
Unknown
So I took a look and yeah just comparing sectors the increase in multiples and valuations goes up much faster in health care than it does in construction and it kind of makes sense with health, you kind of it's not lumpy cash flow, it's very consistent cash flow. People pay before treatment. So the cash flow cycle is positive. A lot of customers high demand, it's expected to be in the construction side, whereas a lot of risk and people pay after and it's played and negative cycle.

00:15:24:04 - 00:15:45:09
Unknown
Yes, invoice terms in construction are an absolute nightmare. Then the red tape, the things boxes needs to be checked and waiting to be paid and, you know, yeah, it is a long process. I can absolutely see that, you know, physio would be a much cleaner transaction. Yep, yep, yep. So yeah, the feature side was looking good as a practice to start.

00:15:45:09 - 00:16:25:01
Unknown
And then with the value addition of the diagnostic service alongside and then also researching into that, that the wait times and everything, the NHS difficulties that are going on and how hard it is to get decent care and get and actually even find out what's going on. Yeah, it's crazy the wait times at the moment, so it's a nice time, a perfect storm really to kind of enter into this space and I think we've got a good model operating model which where, which is basically been the objective of this first one is to build out our case study, define our operating model to kind of like get everything documented and wrapped up our systems in

00:16:25:01 - 00:16:50:07
Unknown
place and kind of get ready for how we would take this going forward. Yeah. And this is what, you know, really interested me when we first spoke about this. I mean, obviously, I totally understand the the issues of debate, the physiotherapy and NHS and injury and musculoskeletal stuff is treated in the UK. I've got a raft of sports injuries myself that I won't regale everyone with on here, but I've had a tough time with it and I'm a big lover of the NHS.

00:16:50:07 - 00:17:05:15
Unknown
I think do a great job, but you know, spend most of the time also critical care. And I think some of this other stuff we are we do fall behind in October. We see in Australia that you're probably a better system, much more kind of sports focused and I guess that there was obviously a payment at point of service, if I'm right as well.

00:17:05:15 - 00:17:37:00
Unknown
So maybe that fuels that a slightly different model there. So you're kind of bringing an entirely new model to the to the UK and you're also potentially going to be working with the NHS, you said, is that correct? Yeah, Yeah, that's the view. So, so I think now what we were going for with integrated health care and a single location, you have the physios there, which is we're trying to primarily private physios don't typically get referrals in for NHS.

00:17:37:02 - 00:18:04:13
Unknown
It's kind of like a very best that's kind of already been done with the large physiotherapy practices that are out there. So that kind of generally keep in private. But then so our diagnostic, which is starting off with ultrasound and hopefully within a few years we'll start getting MRI's and maybe X-rays and things as well. That diagnostic side, there's really big wait times in NHS and I don't think that, you know, just the opportunity to partner with them.

00:18:04:13 - 00:18:32:10
Unknown
So yeah, we're looking to what's once we get certified with 66 and that to enable the contract with local hospitals that we'll be looking into. Yeah. For sure. Try and relieve some of that wait time and get some of that demand into the clinic and work with the NHS. It's so interesting because I think there is it's not any great service, especially the people that will get to use your, you know, your diagnostic tools, but also to everybody else in the area that does have those long waiting times.

00:18:32:10 - 00:18:55:18
Unknown
It's going to alleviate that kind of pressure on the NHS who perhaps don't have the same systems in place. So I think that's super interesting. And yeah, to go back to another point that you mentioned, your your model when you said that you're kind of testing out and again, not the thing that made me want to get you on the podcast and share this with people because like I said, you when we first spoke, you said that you had initially looked at going out and raising funding and maybe acquiring a bigger business then than you actually did.

00:18:55:18 - 00:19:17:07
Unknown
In the end, nothing but a little smaller fund, if I remember correctly, and you, you know, you've had to apply that model and get some learnings along the way and possibly a slightly less risky environment. And now you can take that learning and that model and apply that to, you know, maybe another acquisition down the line or potentially even a larger physio or group.

00:19:17:08 - 00:19:34:12
Unknown
Yeah, for sure. So this so we went micro with so small for our first one that we self-funded just trying to think, okay, well I know I'm going to make a lot of mistakes, I know it's going to be lots of issues. There's like this, things I just don't even know about, which I know I'm going to it out.

00:19:34:14 - 00:19:57:09
Unknown
So we went, yeah, we went, went pretty small. So the business, the physio, we got was only doing 435 turnover in the last 12 months. Once we what we got from, we bought it and, and we made, we made it all well I should say I made all the mistakes of business partners basically relying on me to, to make a good decision.

00:19:57:11 - 00:20:29:07
Unknown
And I tell you, I did everything wrong. I mean I got like I think I was a year and a half of searching after being with a bunch of deals that are fallen through. So I was getting very hungry for something just to get across the line. And this thing, I was like, okay, well, it's like I could do that much as my thinking was that if I make every make every wrong decision, I'm pretty sure like I can still cashflow this thing to eventually get it to a point where it's going to be able to turn around.

00:20:29:09 - 00:20:51:13
Unknown
And that's pretty much what happened. Like we it was reliant on the owner. He was a key income earner, which we're going through the process of kind of replacing him at the moment. Okay. The staff and culture, there was no culture. The staff have all changed because we've come in. We're trying to actually generate like a team working environment and change things a bit much maybe.

00:20:51:15 - 00:21:16:13
Unknown
Okay, there's the financial reporting wasn't great, so I had to tidy that up. No marketing whatsoever. No marketing or sales systems have had to implement that unreliable booking software. So we had to change the booking software. Just, just, just everything's changed. Yeah. So it sounds like every every, every possible fire you could have to fight. You've had a fight with this business at some point.

00:21:16:13 - 00:21:36:15
Unknown
A huge learning curve. I bet it's been it's been great. And then actually through this, I mean, we bought it in August last year, so we're almost a year in. And then in April I did a little tuck in acquisition as well as the local chiropractor and took that into our clinic as well, which is awesome. It was a massive, massive help to our cash flow, which is great.

00:21:36:17 - 00:22:08:14
Unknown
And now we're at the point I think we're going to get to we're going to get to 12 months. We basically going to have our playbook, if you like. You know, we're going to have everything kind of we've been through everything that you could go through. We know what we need to do to solve it. And then we can hopefully go out and solve that for other people through like an equity, you know, consulting for equity model or go in and just be able to identify things, you know, you know, once you once you've been stung and gone through the actual process and lived it, you're well aware to make sure.

00:22:08:15 - 00:22:30:19
Unknown
I mean, I'm not going to forget to like standardize someone's salary. The owner, you know, if they're doing any work in the business whatsoever like that, that's going to definitely stay with me for a life. Now or, you know, just understanding the quality of earnings and going through the process of where's the money coming from, how they paying for people to come in the door?

00:22:31:03 - 00:22:59:18
Unknown
What is the marketing sales process? it's the guy who's actually is calling up his buddies who he knows for 15 years with GP's and consultants around the place, and that's how he does it. Okay, well, that's that's not ideal for me. So just the basics. I got to get the basics down there for sure. And do you think that from your experience in, you know, working in insolvency, you were maybe a little bit less daunted by this task because you've you've seen companies have to, you know, see a lot change come in and teams turned over.

00:22:59:18 - 00:23:29:16
Unknown
And is that something that perhaps maybe a little less get out of this than than another operation might have been potentially, Yeah, I suppose being in distress situation. So I guess the it's difficult if you're if you're the insolvency practitioner, you don't take on any liability. Whereas if you're the business owner and you and you take on the shares from the point that you take on those shares, you're you've got director duties you are liable for for the active actions that you take from that point on.

00:23:29:16 - 00:23:45:04
Unknown
So you need to be you need to be pretty honest, I'd say like that it's still daunting. I suppose the thing that made it more possible, kind of like Liverpool, is the fact that it was just a small business, so it wasn't the end of the world if it if it failed, it wasn't the end of the world.

00:23:45:04 - 00:24:13:07
Unknown
Had a we've I also got a loan that was only 20% peg, so I only got a loan for 100 grand to, to buy this business 20% PJ So I'm on the hook for 20 grand and that's obviously a chunk of money for some people. But like worst case scenario, everything just went to hell. I can kind of work that off over a few years, but I don't think I would even get to that point.

00:24:13:07 - 00:24:34:13
Unknown
There were assets in the business to try to self-fund for that small and if you had going on it maybe a more traditional route and you'd purchased a business turning over, you know, a couple of million, then it would have been a slightly more daunting and maybe a different story. Different story, I think then, you know, you go down traditional route, you've got the support you've got, you've got a lot of experience and support behind you.

00:24:34:13 - 00:24:56:13
Unknown
So yeah, you would be yeah, you'd be guided to make the right decision, you know, going to, you know, going through a school of hard knocks, you're going to be making this decision and as, as well like cash flow is king. If you've got a, a fund supporting you and have invested in you to, to get something get a business and they believe in it, it's really their cash.

00:24:56:13 - 00:25:11:01
Unknown
It's on the line. So they're not going to see you fail. They're going to be able to maybe have a cash flow you out of the problem, which I think is that's the comforting thing of the traditional search. Right. You've got you've got the experience and the money behind you to kind of see your way through the issues.

00:25:11:02 - 00:25:38:17
Unknown
Whereas if you go self-funded, you're just taking it out on yourself. So yeah, if you run out of cash and you don't have the skills or attitude, you got to solve the problems. Yeah, that's, that's on, you know, it's interesting. So if you were to put to the next cow who's out there to do acquisition, what would you say to him and what advice would you offer some of the start their acquisition journey.

00:25:38:18 - 00:26:06:03
Unknown
I'd say don't get deal heat and don't get too carried away about asking to get something. That's basically, I think the situation that we've ended up in with this one. And otherwise it's yeah, try and I think like partnering like this this is a it's such a great community if this if if you want to be the operator I suppose there's investors out there see if you can partner with someone that's done it before or get investment behind you.

00:26:06:05 - 00:26:29:11
Unknown
That's the size that you want. Like, I suppose my thesis was a little bit, so I didn't, I didn't expect to kind of take any money out of this for 12 months or so. I just wanted to kind of go through the process and have a successful acquisition in Under my belt. And then my thinking was that, okay, if I can prove that I've got skill set too, then rinse and repeat a model.

00:26:29:12 - 00:26:53:16
Unknown
Then I can get investment much easier than if I haven't done anything. And I'm trying to get convinced people to back me just because I think buying a business is a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. I think my name is Sorry. Please continue. So I got you so we've got we've got a bit of a delay. Yeah, sorry about that.

00:26:53:17 - 00:27:07:08
Unknown
I think so. I guess that the answer would be like, just know yourself, know it, know what you're after and what you're trying to do. So, yeah, my mine was I can, I can keep working and I can keep doing I can consult on the side of doing the the purchase me and my business partner to be able to solve the problems.

00:27:07:13 - 00:27:30:10
Unknown
Well, we'll get to the end of 12 months and we'll hopefully be in a position where we can go again. This is the other other mentality probably is I need to earn an income, so I need financial support while I go through an acquisition and then potentially want to be buying something a bit bigger or a lot bigger, something you can start drawing a salary from early on.

00:27:30:10 - 00:27:55:18
Unknown
And I suppose having that. Yeah, and it's a double edged sword, I suppose, because you tend to take up more of your time I guess. But there is less pressure on it to, to take some cash out. And you did have a bit of space for learning. So it's a super interesting route and you know, as for, you know, the business that you did acquire, how did you go about finding, selecting, you know, talking to that to that target?

00:27:55:18 - 00:28:34:02
Unknown
Was it an off market search? You find it through a broker. This was through a broker. This was their CVS General. wow. Okay, rubbish. But yeah, yeah, she's very smart. But I was doing I was doing letters, so I was getting database of I was using I was using a market research company. Okay. Called market location. So as you see, I was buying I was using that database, had a template letter and I was sending 500 letters a month for a long period time, like six months plus six.

00:28:34:02 - 00:28:59:12
Unknown
But that was one method. Other one was I used a LinkedIn consultant to like message or connect my basically set up on my profile, connect with people, and then set up calls to me. And then, yeah, brokers. I was registered with every broker I could register with and was trying to find people I could just speak to regularly and keep sending me stuff that's interesting.

00:28:59:12 - 00:29:26:10
Unknown
And we're all those tactics. Specifically in health, it was this for the construction deals beforehand and then you reach into health later. That was the construction. That was a construction route and the health one was really quick, I think started searching, I'm pretty sure from start search to then buying. This was like four or five months. Wow. Yeah.

00:29:26:11 - 00:29:52:14
Unknown
Met with at three or four. And then it was just it was just fast. Yes, it was faster. And part of that, you think, was maybe, as you described it, they will hate you were so sort reaching to get a deal done. It maybe moved along a little bit quickly. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. From agreeing a deal to then completing on this first one was just over two months and that was definitely just pushing everything through to as fast as possible.

00:29:52:16 - 00:30:08:12
Unknown
Wow, that is quick. But you know, like you said, you gave yourself space to learn and there wasn't a huge risk to you and you've now got that playbook. And like you said, you can go and apply that elsewhere. And you spoke a little bit about your plans. But you know, what is next for you with this playbook?

00:30:08:12 - 00:30:33:05
Unknown
Is it going to an investor and saying, hey, I've done this before, I've learned all the lessons, let's go in and buy a, you know, slightly larger practice or collection thereof or, you know, other some other routes that you're looking at taken to expand. Yes, all of the above, I suppose. There's so I've got the I've got a good size practice lined up now to to acquire, which is also in South London.

00:30:33:07 - 00:30:53:04
Unknown
And that one the gentleman he wants. Yeah. He's adamant what is in cash on the table on completion. So that one needs invested. Funny. I don't, I don't have the money for it. I don't want to open debt and he does want it to be all done on debt as well. Sure. So that was why I was at the last networking event.

00:30:53:09 - 00:31:15:00
Unknown
But the thing is, of course, basically you need to be raising over a million from these funds or I suppose like family offices and things like that to actually kind of get your foot in the door. So this one, I'm 38, 700, so I'm not quite there. So I think, yeah, I'm looking at other other kind of alternatives now.

00:31:15:00 - 00:31:41:19
Unknown
So I'm thinking about the consulting to equity route where I can basically start off coming in as advisor, fix problems, help people get sale ready. I've got my playbook that I can present to them and then they can pick bits that they like off that and tell me this is I don't want help with. Start off with a consulting fee and then moving to a small consulting firm with a bit of equity that and but the main thing that you want to get out of that is like an option to buy, right?

00:31:41:19 - 00:32:02:18
Unknown
So that to me sounds like the perfect route to kind of build up a group because you can get some cashflow off the bat, you're not reliant on the business, you you agreeing with someone and building a relationship with someone who's going to sell you that business. As long as you got option in place, you can stitch up a few of those together and then go to a fund or whatever and be like, Look, I'm ready to go.

00:32:02:18 - 00:32:29:15
Unknown
But six, seven, how many places got the option to buy? Just need your money to execute. I know how to run. I've been consulting there for how long? You know, you've got a good in and a good story to tell. Plus you've got your playbook in your back pocket to then continue fixing problems. If you if the if they're there, offer the people for the funder to say if they're not sure about your credentials or what you're planning to do well, and hopefully if they've been working with you, they've been implementing some of your playbook.

00:32:29:15 - 00:32:52:03
Unknown
So it's not like coming in on day one and having to tear everything up and start again. It's already working in the way that you would like it to and you could hit the ground running. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And any goals for you as an owner, not price any sort of personal growth goals as a sort of entrepreneur and business leader, what are you hoping to achieve the next couple of years?

00:32:52:05 - 00:33:19:12
Unknown
I don't know. That's a good one. I've nothing in particular. I don't know. I think I'm just I like this. The consulting for equity type play, I think is quite nice. I mean, I'd like to just be through this journey to help people, kind of help people have a succession planning and cover themselves from the business. I think it's the guy we bought from was like stressed out of his mind.

00:33:19:13 - 00:33:39:10
Unknown
He like his business was was failing my keys. He was not in a good place, was working nonstop. He was having to start to get health issues. I think you like your emotions kind of like where your body down, don't they? So yeah, he was just done a full apart and he was so frazzled. Since taking it over, he's had much more time and is just a happier person.

00:33:39:10 - 00:33:58:12
Unknown
I think that's kind of potentially people to to look at as well as this gentleman that I've told you about who's ready to sell his clinic in South London. Yeah, he's just no succession plan. No, no, he's been trying to sell it for two years. Great difficulty, people can't raise the money for it. And maybe he wants too much.

00:33:58:12 - 00:34:19:13
Unknown
Who knows? But if you got. If I can go in there and convince him to sell to me, not to sell to me, but we can have some sort of consulting arrangement to kick off a purchase agreement and he can see the way I operate, then hope that's kind of like an easy sell, right? And Easier in just helping people like this that have these clinics that they're kind of struggling.

00:34:19:14 - 00:34:38:10
Unknown
And I helped take some some weight off them, help them enjoy a little bit better doesn't have to be for an acquisition all outright but just take some services away from them to make that clinic and life easier. I think that's a really nice positive side effects is yeah they do have that that that impact on on business owners and operators lives.

00:34:38:10 - 00:34:54:11
Unknown
I mean something that we see quite often is that people go into business because they're good at what they do, not necessarily because they like running a business. So, you know, they might have been, you know, a great physio or a construction. It's super common as well. And then they get to this point in time where they are kind of ground down by the day to day.

00:34:54:14 - 00:35:09:15
Unknown
They don't get to do the bit of it that they love anymore, hold up other pressures, and if someone like you can come in and alleviate some of that, then that must be a great a great feeling for them and a great feeling for you and hopefully, you know, leads to plenty more acquisitions along the way for you.

00:35:09:17 - 00:35:42:03
Unknown
Let's say I have something awesome. Well, thank you very much for joining us. It's been super illuminating. I'm sure our listeners will feel the same if anybody is in this kind of space wants to connect with Cowen. We will leave his links in details on the bottom of this video. So if you are the owner of a physiotherapist practice and you need someone to come and do consulting or you're in the same space, you want to network or you want skim 700 K to buy a practice in South London, then please get in touch with him.

00:35:42:04 - 00:36:12:00
Unknown
We can always make exceptions for the best of platform as well. So Karl, thank you very much for joining us. Thanks, Alfie. Thanks for having me. Good talking to you. And that's it for The Amazing. We will see you next week. I.