I just decided, Brian, from the beginning, I'm just going to work as unto the Lord,

and I'll let the details take care of itself. And so I identified the problem, and I didn't just lament.

Yeah. I didn't just, "Oh, well, wouldn't it be nice if..." Right? No. I executed. I got after it

because it's what's required of me as a disciple of Jesus. If God showed you the entire trajectory

of your life, you would be paralyzed with fear. There's no way you would be able to even take a

step. So he's just going to show you a little bit farther ahead, a little bit farther ahead.

We want you to be dependent and relying upon him along the way.

This is the made to advance podcast.

I'm your host, Brian.

Olic.

We're here to inspire and equip you for your best future.

Well, Hey everybody.

It's so good to be with you today.

And, uh, Hey, before we get started with our conversation, I want to ask if you

you could rate and review made to advance.

That helps us get the word out about the pod to more people.

And it also helps us bring on more incredible guests.

Today I have with me Kyle Thompson

and Kyle hosts the Undaunted Life Podcast,

which is the number one podcast for Christian men.

He's also the co-host of the Daily Blade,

which is the number one devotional podcast

for Christian guys.

Kyle has a deep passion for the word of God

and its relevance to our culture.

who wants to help men become the culture shapers

God created them to be.

And for that reason, I felt Kyle would be a great person

to talk to on Made to Advance.

And so Kyle, welcome to the show.

- Well, thanks for having me,

but are we just not gonna talk about it?

We're just gonna blow right through it?

Come on, man.

I think we gotta talk about it.

- The fact that you were almost dead?

Is that what you're talking about?

Oh, you're talking about the second.

(laughing)

- Yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, we made, yes, we made Made to Advance.

We made Made to Advance history today.

And I was gonna talk about it actually,

once we got into it, but we'll just get it out right now.

I want you to know, everybody who's listening,

Kyle is the most gracious guest I've ever had

on the history of Made to Advance.

And here's why I say that.

We got through a full 45 minute conversation.

There was so much gold.

Kyle's dropping it all over the place.

And at minute 45, we have this sudden realization,

None of it was recorded.

And it would be fully within Kyle's rights to go,

you know what, man, it was a great talk.

I got a lot on my plate and I was a,

we're a one and done situation,

but here we are about an hour, hour and a half later

and heading for round two.

Are you sure you're ready for this, Kyle?

- No, I'm still not sure.

But the only request I have is I think we need

to rename the show to, you know, "Made to Regress."

That would probably be a better idea.

But no, the thing is, is, and I got to give this guy his flowers because I,

and I told you this story. So Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman, serious guy.

He wrote the book on combat, the book on killing, fantastic books.

He was like my third or fourth interview ever. Right?

So this is years and years and years ago, hundreds of episodes ago.

And I was using a program at the time and we do like two hours, right.

And I'm just like tickled to death that he would even talk to me much less

record for two hours. And then something went wrong with the files.

all the files corrupted, no big deal.

I just have to reach out to him.

They will re-upload from his device.

Well, his assistant, whatever,

did like an update to his computer

the moment he got off of the interview

and it wiped all the files.

And so here I go, you know, navel gazing, hat in hand,

and I email this guy and I say,

"Sir, I'm so sorry.

You know, it was a great interview.

I'm so thankful that you gave us this time."

But it's gone, like it's just gone.

And this is how this man responded.

This is Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman, he goes,

"Well, I guess God wasn't satisfied with our first try,

"so let's just go ahead and do it again."

Right?

And he did, he gave me another two hour conversation

and it went probably better than the first one

in terms of how I could remember.

So as much as I wanted to be mad,

as much as I wanted to like, you know, shake the cage

and say, "Hey, I've got all this stuff,

"you know, get your crap together."

Like it's happened to me.

And that's not the only story I have.

I've had to get people back on to re-record the backend

because some sort of bee-boop-dee-dop button I didn't hit

or whatever thing is, so it is not really that big a deal.

I'm just glad we could squeeze it back in today.

- Yeah, well, I think it's super kind.

And it's good, we're talking about,

or we will be talking about Christian manhood especially.

And it's just good to remember in the midst of being strong

and all of the things that come with being Christian man,

being a grace giver is a big deal.

And sometimes, I mean, we talk about kind of the strong side

but given grace like that is another expression of strength.

You don't wanna be a doormat,

but how do you feel like,

you know, what's the kind of the,

you know, navigating that tension

of where you do what you did,

which is say, hey, I'm gonna have grace.

And when is it like, hey, you weren't there,

you didn't show up, you didn't have your stuff together,

peace out.

What's, how do you navigate that tension?

- Well, technically I am a doormat

because also today something that's never happened

to me happened.

I'm technically dead, at least according to Google AI.

I was informed by a lovely fan of my audience

that according to Google AI, I do not exist anymore.

I died tragically in a bench press accident

where I dropped 315 on my neck and it killed me.

Also, according to Google AI,

I am a Green Beret Special Forces officer.

And so all that would be incredibly sad

if not for a few pesky little facts.

Number one, I never joined the military.

Number two, I've never dropped a bench press in my life.

number three, I am here currently talking to you. And so, like, it's hard to show grace

when you're technically an inanimate object. And so, like, I don't know how to deal with

that, but let me get back to your serious question here. So, this is not going to be

a shock to anybody that's consumed my content for any length of time. There's not a whole

lot of grace in my presentation. I think culture and I think the modern-day church does a pretty

good job of extending grace to everybody, especially when grace is not ready to go.

the big thing for me, um, and I know we're not supposed to say the guy's name.

He's like Voldemort, but Mark Driscoll actually taught me this.

It's like with your family and with your people that are, that are closest to you,

you need to be lying for them, lamb with them.

Okay.

So let's take my boys, James and Eli, five years old and three years old.

If I was lying all the time, it's just too stressful.

It's way too much stimulus.

It's way too abrasive.

they're just not gonna operate and grow well.

Same thing with my wife.

She's never gonna feel comfortable or safe

or any of those types of things

if it's just lying all the time, right?

But if I'm lamb all the time and the lion's not available,

that's not good either.

Because those kids and that gal that I married,

they're gonna know that, gosh,

this is a really nice kind of low-key,

polite environment to live in.

But if a wolf shows up, we're screwed.

And so again, that's kind of the dance we have

of trying to understand Jesus, who's fully Lamb of God,

but also fully Lion of Judah somehow,

fully 100% grace, but also fully 100% truth somehow.

And we just tend to run to the side

that more so aligns with our personality.

But I would say, I wouldn't say that men today

are struggling because there's too much grace

or because there's too much truth around.

It's way too much grace, it's way too much,

yeah, you're severely overweight

and you haven't taken your wife on a date in several years

and you haven't read a book since high school

and you don't pursue church, you pursue your hobbies,

but you know what, it's okay because grace or something.

No, no, I think guys need a whole heck of a lot more truth.

- Yeah, I think that's a good word.

I think that number one, as you're saying,

our culture, well, you said our personalities

and I think that is a huge deal.

So our personalities are shifted towards this way or that

and we kind of flow with those.

Secondly, the culture is constantly

pushing the grace button.

And so I think most guys, like if we were erring

on the side of the lion side of things, 50% more,

we'd still probably be short of the amount of lion

that we could be living out.

I think it's a great idea though,

or a great comment from Mark just regarding

being a lamb to your family.

And then say it again, I wanna make sure we get that.

- Yeah, it's lion for them, lamb with them.

- There it is, all right, that's so good.

Now-- - And if I may,

if I can pause you just one sec,

because I've talked to my wife about this

because my wife and I,

we just celebrated our 16 year anniversary.

Again, five-year-old and three-year-old boys,

they're gonna be the most toxically masculine

Christian extremist little boys in the entire world.

I can't wait.

But I'm kind of a lunatic.

Like I'm very high strung.

I'm very ginger for those of you

that are just listening to this.

Square jaw, red hair, real angry,

three color options, red, pink, and clear.

It's just like, it's a whole lot.

It's like a ball of like crazy going on at all times.

But I've learned to calibrate that

for the sake of my wife and her heart

and I'm still don't do a very, very good job of it.

- I asked you the first time we tried it,

I asked you how you would feel about actually dying

in a bench press accident.

You said good if the weight would have been higher

or if they would have qualified, there were way more reps.

But here's an interesting thing.

I actually, I did some work on bio stuff for you as well.

I did not look at Google AI, I used chat.

Thankfully, I realized right away, something seems a little screwy here

because number one chat had that you were special ops as well.

So I'm telling you, man, the social media is building you up, but it also had,

and I need to just clarify this for everybody who might look you up after

this, after they hear on this conversation, it said you were also an avid.

Like painter of nature scenes is there.

There's gotta be another Kyle Thompson out there, bro.

I, I just don't, I mean, again, nothing wrong with it.

like David, you know, King David was a fighter and he was also strumming that

harp.

I mean, so that's fine, but are you out there like doing jujitsu and then like

painting nature scenes, uh, right after you get done?

You know, it's just one of those things that it's what calms me down after choking

my friends.

Uh, I just find the nearest nature scene and just pull out.

No, no, none of that is true.

Uh, you know, the funny thing is I've been, so I've been introduced in speeches

on podcasts as an MMA fighter, which I'm not as, you know, a Navy SEAL, which I've never

been.

I've never joined the military to make the record super, super clean and clear on that.

And I always have to find a very fun and low key way of correcting the host without completely

embarrassing them at the same time.

But I take stolen valor very, very seriously.

So I don't, I don't take that lightly because I've never raised my right hand and said that

I would protect this nation from enemies, foreign and domestic.

That is an incredible thing that is missing from my past, but that wasn't my calling.

I wasn't called to go downrange.

That's just the kind of way that it is.

I'm so thankful for the men that did do that and continue to do that on a daily basis.

No, I've got some interesting hobbies, but one of them is to not do my own little Bob

Ross impression.

It's usually jujitsu or lifting weights, but I just got to tell you, I know my foxhole

guys pretty well.

If one of them happened to come upon me and there I am dead on the bench or something

like that, like I clearly dropped it on myself and died.

They would at least have the decency to throw another couple of 45s on either

side so that the news, when they reported this, uh, this accident, it'd be like,

man, he was, you know, he was just repping out, you know, a four 95 and it

just didn't work out for him.

You know what I mean?

That's a test of a good brother right there.

Amen.

Hey, you know, a question I was thinking about, uh, just coming

off of this being round two.

And in a sense, uh, you might say our first attack, uh, first attack, first

stab on this was a fail, you know, and I guess it--and then here we are

rebooting it. How do you view failure in the life of somebody who wants to

ultimately have standards accomplished, live for God's best in their lives, and

live into God's calling for their life? How do you interpret failure and the

importance of failure? Well, the thing is, is if you're actually going for it, you're

gonna fail, right? Because if you never fail, it's because you're not doing

anything, right? It's because you're just basically sitting there, existing, you're

just like an amoeba, just kind of blaring your way through life.

You should be failing.

Right.

And the thing is, is I seek out failure, right?

I do that typically with exercise and jujitsu because, you know, I've been

training jujitsu for about eight years.

I've gotten, you know, a stripe on my Brown belt, knocking on the door,

a black belt, so I'm not worthless.

But some days you're the hammer and some days you're the nail.

And that's the thing with jujitsu is five for five or six years.

You're just the nail.

Right.

And you're going to get smashed by people that aren't as strong as you, that aren't as

as athletic as you, that aren't as big as you, that aren't as good looking as you,

whatever your thing is, but you just get smashed.

That's what the game is.

And so I guess the thing with failure is like, okay, are you going to define

yourself by your failure?

Is that, is that what you're going to do?

Because I find it to be, it's, it's kind of cocky in a way when someone's like, uh, I

don't know.

So maybe they, they had an affair on their wife or maybe, I mean, I've spoken to

Maybe they've murdered somebody. Maybe they've raped somebody. Like, whatever the thing is, the horrible thing.

It's like, so you're saying that

Jesus dying on the cross is enough to cover the sin debt of all humanity past, present, and future, but not enough to cover that?

Oh, but you don't know, like, I killed my--I had two abortions, and I had all these different things and all that. Okay.

There's now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. What is that, Romans 8? One? Okay.

So can we now dispense with this idea that somehow your brand and your version

of sin, that you've out sinned the grace of God in some way? And so yeah, these

people that just spend the rest of their life, you know, defining themselves by

something that they've done or something that's happened to them, it's ultimately

a victimhood mindset and I'm just not big on it. Yeah, well and even if it's, I

mean, for sure when it comes to anything relative to sin or morality, we, I mean,

it is arrogance to say, "Sorry, Jesus,

"what you did isn't good enough."

But even when it comes to the day-to-day stuff,

getting comfortable with my identity is based in Christ,

because the moment you're tying your identity

to performance, I think,

that's when it feels like failure is the end of you,

because now it's like, "Oh my gosh, I blew a podcast,"

and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or whatever it might be.

When you're rooted in Christ, you go,

"Hey, that's just part of it,

"like part of being faithful

"is you're gonna say stupid things,

"and you're gonna have to apologize afterwards.

"That's okay if you're following Jesus."

We didn't spend any time on your background.

I wanna make sure we get to that

now that we're a few minutes in here,

but give our listeners who might not be familiar with you,

you're just killing it in all the podcast space.

You've got great materials online.

We'll talk about how they can access those later,

but give us like the few minute version of your bio.

- Yeah, I appreciate the kind words.

I mean, it really goes back to 10th grade.

So I didn't grow up in a family that went to church.

And so people from my audience

are familiar with this language,

but since I was born in Oklahoma,

I feel like I fall into the country music theology mindset.

So basically if you're born in the South,

if your grandmama and grandpapa went to church,

and if you got baptized as a kid,

and if you can kind of quote John 3:16,

and if you vote Republican occasionally,

and if you listen to '90s country music,

then you get to go to heaven

'cause God loves all those things, right?

So it's, you know, your theology

just kind of wrapped in an American flag,

And no one really talks about your depravity.

It's just like, oh, well, he just likes to drink sometimes.

And sometimes it gets into a fight.

That's kind of how it is.

But as a middle schooler, all the best looking girls

from my middle school went to this particular church

on Wednesday nights.

So I was like, that's where I need to be.

I mean, just in case they need anything,

like I just need to be there and be available.

I'm a servant at heart.

- Serving the people.

- Yeah, yeah, I'm a servant.

But I started going to church on my own

and go to Sunday night, guest preacher comes in,

hellfire and brimstone.

Hell sounded awful.

There's earthquakes, there's volcanoes,

there's stuff going on.

So I chose team Jesus or Jesus snatched me up

against my will because we don't actually have will

if you're a Calvinist.

I don't really know how all that works out,

but one of these days I'll kind of map it all out

on the wall.

But pretty early on, I'm like, okay,

I got to figure out what it means to be a Christian

'cause I'm 15 years old now,

but also I'm simultaneously trying to figure out

what it means to be a man.

And so what I quickly determined is that

those are just separate things.

So men are outside the church doing like man stuff,

like fixing stuff and working out and doing all that.

And inside the church are all the godly guys.

And they're just like, you know, praying for you

and touching you all the time and like giving you a

handshake, but never like a firm one.

And I was just like, that's the, where I, you know,

that's what I surmise, right, in my monkey brain.

But then getting into my later teen years,

college years, early twenties,

I started to read the Bible for myself a little more.

Cause I know it was disciples, the disciple in me.

And so I was just kind of doing it all on my own.

And I'm reading about this Jesus guy,

this Middle Eastern Jewish construction worker

that seemed to have a pretty rough affect

that didn't seem to be terribly concerned

about how people viewed his words or actions.

He was sitting here on a mission

and he was just gonna take care of business.

And it just was like, wait a minute,

this is like a manly dude.

Like I had been given this idea from culture

and from art and from movies

that he was some sort of like wispy haired Danish guy

features that would never hurt a fly and certainly wouldn't say things that would

be offensive, that would just be super un-Christ-like. And so I guess I got a

burden for the tough guys, right? Those guys with crooked noses and

cauliflower ears and tattoos, those guys that walk into the church and maybe

don't feel like they fit in, they see all these frumpy doey dudes and they're like, "Ah,

that's not really gonna be my style." And so I worked with some different

ministries, helped start some ministries, did some camps, and you know, eventually I

I just realized I needed to go a little faster and get my ideology and my viewpoints on men's

ministry, which I don't call it that anymore, 'cause it's such a loaded phrase.

And then I guess you could just fast forward the tape a little bit, and then eventually

Undaunted Life becomes a thing, eventually my podcast becomes a thing.

I never thought it was gonna grow to what it is now.

I mean, I think, what was it, last year?

I think we peaked at the number 24 podcast in the entire world.

That's like six and a half million shows.

Wow, amazing.

You know, that was never the plan.

You don't follow a blueprint and do that.

It's just something that kind of happens

that God has ordained and blessed.

And so that's kind of the short version of it.

There's a lot more detail in there though.

Well, let's, because I really liked the picture.

I mean, I mentioned to you before,

I love when people have the guts to get out there

and start something in faith.

They don't know where it's going.

They don't even necessarily have this master roadmap

of it's gotta be this huge thing.

They just know the call of God is on their lives

and they gotta be faithful to that.

And it doesn't start all with like bells and whistles

and glory and all the things.

Talk about the beginning of the podcast.

You had other income and just talk to me

about the journey of that.

I love your early studio.

Sounds like a brilliant environment.

People need to know what that environment was like.

Yeah, let's talk about the early days.

So I kind of have a philosophical aversion

to people that get a vision

and then they just burn all the ships in their life,

regardless of the fact that they,

their wives and children prefer to live indoors and eat food, and then they just chase this

vision.

And 'cause every now and then that works out and it makes a great self-help book, but there's

about a thousand other stories where people crash and burn, go bankrupt, lose their marriage,

lose their kids, and it's a terrible disaster.

So don't do that, people.

But early on, I wrote a devotional for the YouVersion Bible app.

It did spectacularly well.

So that was kind of confirmation to me that the marketplace of ideas had a place for my

my philosophy as it pertains to Christian manhood, biblical manhood, what men should

be doing on a day in and day out basis, not just staying up here in the world of the philosophical.

And so they wanted me to write another devotional, didn't want to do that.

I hate writing.

I'm good at it, but I just hate it.

It's just, it's too frustrating for me because I just want to get it out, right?

My brain's moving too fast.

My fingers can't type fast enough.

And so the medium that is conducive for that is put some notes on a sheet of paper and

then just flow towards a microphone or a camera, and that's the podcast medium.

So I just decided, Brian, from the beginning, I'm just going to work as under

the Lord and I'll let the details take care of itself.

I've got my career, I've got things going on.

And so my first mic was like a $50 snowball mic, and I just

plugged it into my existing laptop.

My, in my studio was literally now my three-year-old's closet downstairs,

which was just big enough for me to like sneak my body and close the door.

Laptop's right here.

Mike's right here.

And I just stood in this dark closet.

screaming at the screen and into my microphone, getting super hot because

there's no ventilation in there.

It sounded great by the way.

But like, you know, but then I get out and I get to breathe and

that's just where it started.

And you know what my second studio was a closet in a different room where I

could just kind of walk around a little bit.

It was a little bit of a bigger closet.

And then I, you know, moved to a different place and you know, this is

kind of like the fifth or sixth iteration of my studio, but again, I just go back

to, from the beginning I was working as unto the Lord because there were

aspirations of the impact and the breadth of what Undaunted Life and what we've been

able to do with Undaunted Life and our message.

It was just, man, if I do a few dozen of these and I have tens of listeners and then I decide

to pull the plug on it for whatever reason, I wanted to always look back and be like,

you know what, I may have shifted my opinions on some things, I may have adjusted what I

think on this side or the other, I may have said that differently, but I would still sign

my name to it and be proud.

Yeah, that's so good.

And I just want for everybody hearing, I mean,

that idea of I'm not gonna, too many people are waiting

for conditions to be perfect before they launch the thing

or take the risk.

They're waiting for it to have all the money,

all the perfect gear, the perfect staff,

the perfect whatever.

And so that idea of if I've got something inside me,

and obviously this is all subject to the Holy Spirit,

but if I've got something inside me that is like,

man, I feel like I'm really called to do this.

And I love you had some external validation

coming from the Bible study you wrote,

but it's like, man, I just need to make something happen

here and quit sitting on my hands.

And then I love that it's up to God at that point.

Like God's gonna prosper how he wants to.

We work under the Lord and if he wants to take it further

then so be it for him to do that.

So just a great story and it makes me all the more

appreciate what you're putting out on "Daunted."

It's funny, I said it right in the intro this time,

but I'm still a man that is a mouthful.

It's just not the easiest word to say.

Like, and so it just goes back to the beginning.

I was trying to find something so undaunted,

hard to spell, hard to say, so that's my fault.

- Well, made to advance is now taken,

so I'm sorry, you're just not gonna be able to switch.

- Sorry, sorry, made to regress.

We've already, the ship has sailed on that.

The ship has sailed, change all the 501(c)(3) data.

- Hey, you can't get any judgment from me.

I named a church after a place in Israel.

It's called Engedi Church, and it's spelled E-N-G-E-D-I,

but for years when people didn't know what it was,

they thought it was in Jedi

and thought it was some kind of Star Wars cult church.

So trust me, no shade on the name game, that's for sure.

Fair enough, fair enough.

Let's talk about Jesus as a lion and lamb.

I think the lamb idea, when people think of,

even if they don't think of Jesus as a lamb,

when they think of Jesus' characteristics,

His traits, even some of their favorite stories,

probably some of these lamb moments,

these softer, more tender moments come to mind.

When you think of Jesus as a lion,

where do you see in scripture some of that theme

come out the clearest for you?

Yeah, so here's the issue, is people look at Jesus

like he's a combination of things.

So he's 85% lamb, 15% scary lion.

You know, he's 60% grace, 40% truth, or all that.

And we just got the math wrong.

He's 100% lamb, while simultaneously being 100% lion.

He's 100% grace, while simultaneously being 100% truth.

And so it was part of the problem

ministry in general, but significantly for these kind of effeminate

men's ministries that are out there, is they don't like talking about the Lion

of Judah very much, because the Lion of Judah is kind of scary, okay? So Jesus, a poor

guy walking around healing people, is a lot more palatable than the Jesus that

comes back on a white horse with bright white hair, eyes like fire, a sword in his

mouth, a tattoo on his leg, and a robe that's covered in blood. Is it the blood

from the cross, or is it the blood of his enemies? We don't know. But also, how much

hated sin. When he came to the tomb of Lazarus, it says he snorted with anger.

Now let me explain that to all you well-adjusted guys in the audience from a ginger, you know,

a guy with no soul. I've snorted with anger before, right? Where I was like Joe Pesci in Home Alone

where I was just (mimics snorting) and you just can't even talk because you're so mad. And then

later on, whenever he yells at a dead guy and tells him not to be dead anymore, right? He called out

and a loud voice, "Lazarus, come out."

The same word used for loud there

is the same one used to describe the storm

that almost sunk the apostles' ship, okay?

And so let's just talk about this fact

that Jesus was not just this meek and mild guy

that was going around teaching people how to be polite.

No, he was the Lamb of God that was sent here

to provide propitiation for all of our sin debt,

and the Lion of Judah is coming back to get his bride.

- Right on, right on.

Well, and I think of the times when Jesus gets into conflict

and it's interesting because sometimes we look at those times

gets in a debate or some kind of heated conflict

with the Pharisees, and we think, oh, Jesus is just trying

to heal people and encourage them, and then all of a sudden

this conflict erupts around him.

He baited people all of the time.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

He literally stimulated what would be and catalyzed

fights, arguments, debates.

He knew they were gonna go crazy.

And so it's just an interesting thing.

I don't know if you're familiar with Joe Rigney at all,

but he talks about sometimes you need to roll,

you need to read Joe Rigney.

I'm just gonna say it right now, you'd love him, okay.

But Joe talks about sometimes you need to roll a grenade

into a room and then just deal with what comes of it

because he's like, after you roll that grenade in,

you call a lie out for what it is.

You call out something that everybody's just rolling with.

And he said, sometimes you just gotta deal with the fallout

and trust that's how God's gonna work.

And Jesus did that all the time.

- Well, it's funny you say grenade

'cause my partner in ministry, Joby Martin,

the lead pastor of Church of 1122 down in Florida,

you know, he and I were having this conversation

about just our roles in the kingdom,

you know, capital K kingdom and what that looks like.

And he's like, "Kyle, look, man, I'm a shepherd, right?

Like that's what I've been called to do.

I'm a pastor.

I've been called to a particular group of sheep

to shepherd them along."

He's like, "You're a prophet."

And he didn't mean like, you know,

telling the future and all that woo stuff.

He's like, and he used the word grenades.

He's like, "It's your job to pull the pins on grenades

"and throw 'em into culture

"and just not really care if people get mad about it."

Because there are things that I talk about on my show,

again, we cover faith, culture, politics,

not necessarily in that order,

not a third, a third, a third all the time.

And there's things that I'm gonna talk about in detail

on my show that aren't really appropriate

for the pulpit on Sunday morning

when you're supposed to be equipping the saints

for the work of the gospel

and should be exegeting the scripture, not eisegeting it.

You should be expositing the scripture,

not trying to build a TED Talk

and then sprinkle some Bible verses over the top

so you can keep your tax exempt status.

Like that's your job.

My job is different, right?

The thought of like sitting there

and holding people's hands and counseling people,

it's just, I think I'd rather peel off my toenails

with pliers, like I just don't wanna do that.

Like I just wanna help equip people

to be able to push back darkness.

Because basically wherever you look in culture,

in government and in politics, in your local community,

there's darkness that has to be pushed back

because darkness does not stop itself.

you look at mass shooters or people that do things,

those people don't just, "Okay, I've done enough evil,"

and then they stop doing what they're doing.

No, they have to be stopped.

And so I'm trying to equip people to have the mindset

to where they can fight that type of a battle.

- Yeah, so good.

And I do think he's right.

I mean, I would say in general, for the prophetic voice,

it's many times easier to not be the pastor of a church

and have that kind of prophetic voice be your main deal,

'cause it's a different kind of a thing.

I think that's a gift and an insight, though,

God's given you.

And let's be honest, Jobi is a fantastic pastor,

and if you're not familiar with Jobi,

you need to go to 1122 immediately

and check out everything he's ever said.

We were talking earlier about this idea

that when it comes to things like reading Bibles,

when it comes to physical fitness,

really any kind of fitness,

guys can come up with different reasons, excuses, et cetera,

why they just can't quite seem to get there on those goals.

And I think part of, you know,

part of probably your draw in general is you're like,

well, let's just back this up.

I'm gonna get after that right from the jump when you say,

I want to do this, but somehow you're not.

So some guy, I'm gonna just gonna put, you know,

I'm gonna put this in front of you.

Some guy says, ah, I really wanna get more in shape,

but I just can't quite get there.

I'm trying to, what do you say to him right in that moment?

- Yeah, so typically the word they'll use, Brian,

is man, I'm really struggling to get in shape.

I'm really struggling to have a consistent diet.

I'm struggling to get to the gym.

And my response now after hearing that for years

and years and years from hundreds of guys probably is,

man, if you struggled, you'd have a lot more wins by now.

Because what does it take to be fit?

Struggle.

Yeah.

What does it take to eat real food and not donuts?

Struggle, delaying gratification.

And the thing with a lot of people is plenty of people

are well-versed in excuses on why they lost,

I try to get guys to make excuses

for why they're gonna win, right?

Here's how I'm gonna win, right?

So, 'cause the thing is, is like, okay,

I've got the Murph workout is coming up on Monday.

And so that's a workout I do every year.

That's just a standard that I set for my physicality.

I should be able to do that without any problems

and do it at a quick time.

It's a mile run, 100 pull-ups, 200 push-ups,

300 squats, and another mile run.

And I do it all with a weighted vest.

Now guys will do it with a partner

they'll do it without the vest.

Like I don't really care, but that's just what I do.

And I do it alone, like a psychopath without any music

or anything like that.

I just get after and get it done.

I got a little, you know, bicep,

I got a little tear in my bicep and different things.

And I'm a few days out from this workout.

And so I can make a bunch of excuses

as to why I'm not gonna get after it,

or I can make some excuses about how I'm gonna overcome

and how I'm gonna win.

And so whenever I think that way,

now my brain is thinking in problem solver mode.

So my buddy, who's a PT,

he kind of helped me evaluate what's going on.

He's like, "Hey, here's a little TENS unit.

Let's stimulate that side of the muscle.

Hey, you know, if it doesn't really work out by Monday morning and you still feel

the same way, we can tape it up and you can get after it.

There's a little bit of risk there, but if you want to knock it out and do the,

you see what I'm saying?

It's shifting your mindset.

And a story I told you earlier, so you're hearing it for the second time today.

So act surprised.

But, um, on Sunday nights, I have a group of guys that get together and we're all

reading the same book and it could be a, you know, it could be a biblical book.

It could be a finance book.

It could be a relationship book.

It doesn't really matter.

And we talk about the reading for the week.

We do a kind of a warmup workout and then we all do jujitsu and there's some high

level guys in there, you know, collegiate wrestlers and good jujitsu guys.

And there's some other guys that are just, you know, there for the community aspect,

right?

They're not really even good athletes.

And there was one guy that came from my Sunday school.

He shows up cause it's, it's open.

It's like whoever wants to come, like just show up and he just dies during the workout.

He's dogging it.

He's probably 30, 40 pounds overweight.

Um, he just hasn't been taking care of himself for years.

The jujitsu part literally almost put him in the grave and he starts,

He comes out to me after practice is over.

And he goes, "Hey Kyle."

And I go, "No."

And he just goes, "Wait, I'm sorry, I didn't say anything."

I go, "No."

And he's like, "Kyle, what are you talking about?"

I'm like, "You were gonna come up to me

"and ask me to help you get in shape, right?"

And he kinda like got sheepish and he's like,

"Well, yeah, I was just gonna see if you could."

I was like, "Yeah, not interested, no thanks."

I said, "Dude, you've got a supercomputer in your pocket.

"You've got an internet connection.

"I've been reliably informed

that you literally make thousands of dollars per year.

There are things that you can figure out.

There are gyms in this town.

There are trainers.

There's all kinds of things, but you're going to come to me to shoulder some of

the burden that you are unwilling to shoulder yourself.

A spotter doesn't lift all the weight off of you with every rep there

Jair, just in case you fall, they're trying to give you a little bit of a boost.

And I was like, bro, go work out for six months, go figure it out.

Like go down the road of struggle for six months and then i'll help you sharpen the sword

I'm not gonna help you find it, but I will help you sharpen it

And what do you think the guy did?

He didn't do it, right?

He was trying to help to try to put some of the burden on to me and I spent years buying into people's dudes

Bs and their aspirational identities and then I wanted it more than they did and it always ended in the same place

They got a little bit injured. They got a little bit busy

they got a little bit whatever, and then, "Ah, I guess they don't wanna take care of

the only body that God gave them anymore," right?

Because I'm busy.

And so, yeah, that's the thing for me with most of these guys.

I kinda throw the gauntlet down earlier than most other people because I just assume in

my natural pessimism that you're not gonna do what you said you're gonna do.

So if you don't do it, I get to be right, and if you do do it, then I just get to be

pleasantly surprised.

So it works out for me both ways, but it doesn't work out for them.

Right.

Do you feel like with your podcast

and your overall ministry, I mean, I feel like part

of the strength that God's gifted you with

is just a let's cut through the crap kind of vibe

when it comes to if a guy says this,

and the thing is, by the way,

there are some guys listening even right now,

they're telling themselves something

that they really are even believing is true.

It's not necessarily guys are just thinking,

oh, I'm lying to you right now,

but how much of what's connecting

about your approach towards just speaking into guys' lives

is just saying, "Listen, I'm gonna identify

the stuff you're believing at the most foundational level

and I'm just gonna call it out."

I mean, would you say that's a big part of your influence?

Yeah, and look, there is virtue and wisdom

in taking the slow approach

and to kind of leading people along

and taking people by the hand

and, "Hey, let's attack small things

and we can build up to bigger things later."

Like, I get it.

I just fundamentally disagree with the philosophy.

And I'd rather get to the point

as opposed to talking about things that are not the point.

So another buddy of mine came up to me,

he came to Fight Club, he struggled during the workout.

And this is a guy that exercises, right?

So he's different than this other guy I described

'cause he's actually doing something.

But my little workout, which is no big deal,

was killer to him.

He comes up to me after practice, he says,

"Hey man, like, you know,

I don't know what I'm doing wrong

'cause I go to the gym and I work out three,

four days a week and blah, blah, blah.

But I just struggled during the workout."

do the elliptical or something.

And he could have got real offended and all that, but guess what?

That was his answer.

Like he would go do the elliptical and he would kind of do a few sets of this over

there and he'd go over and pick up this weight and put it back down, but there

was no direction, there was no standard that he was trying to get to or hold on

to as it pertained to his physical health.

And I just cut all the way through that as opposed to, oh yeah, tell me a little

bit about, you know, your upbringing and how that could possibly have an impact

on you being in your late thirties and not working out really hard.

Okay.

It's just like, no, let's get to the heart of the issue.

We were talking earlier, and I wanna transition

to talking about, in a sense, spiritual training.

We were talking earlier about just the importance

of reading the Word of God, and I think one of the things

you said right off the bat is if somebody's struggling,

do they actually believe that the Word of God

is the Word of God?

Do they actually fundamentally believe

it's necessary for life?

If they're saying, oh, I absolutely do,

but then they're not reading it,

they don't, I mean, really believe that.

It's if somebody believes they need to eat food to survive,

you don't have to convince them to eat food.

So what I love is you're starting at the root level

saying, okay, before we even talk about

reading the word of God, what do you actually believe

and not what you say you believe, what's deep down in you?

When I've, lately, it's funny 'cause I'll hear

different reasons, I used to be so pastoral

and oh, I understand, it's hard to read the word

and all that, and I'm like, listen, you go to the bathroom,

you feed yourself, you brush your teeth today,

if you did all of those things, you can teach yourself

to read the Bible, but speak to guys just on what God's Word

has done and is doing in your life.

And I get what you're saying,

and we talked about this earlier, not motivating guys,

but I just want them to hear like,

this is why the Word of God is such a big deal.

This is why it's, draw a line in the sand

and say the Word of God is gonna be part of my life

every day.

- Yeah, part of it is you're exactly right.

What do you think the Bible is, right?

Do you think it's the Word of God?

'Cause I think if more people thought it was the Word of God

you know, half inch of dust on the top of our stack of Bibles on our bookshelf.

And so the reality is, is at some point, you have to read it like it's true.

Because we don't read anything because we think it's true.

We read it because it's going to be valuable to us or it's going to keep us from being bored.

That's why we read stuff. But if you just read the Bible as if it's true,

you're going to come to a realization that this is the most tremendous thing ever produced that a person could own,

and it's not about us.

It's for us, but it's not about us. I think Matt Chandler disabused Stephen Furtick of that

At the Code Orange revival, you know years and years ago

You're not David

And your your issue with porn or your issue at work is not Goliath

Okay, that is a story that is a description of a truth of God and everything in the bible somehow some way points to Golgotha

Points to the empty tomb. Okay

And so when you approach it that way guess what you're going to start making connections

The reason why I've got this sleeve going, right? I've got, you know, Jesus crowned thorns.

I've got, you know, the three skulls. I've got the rock formation that looks like, you know, a skull.

And I've got this lamb. It's because over the last year, year and a half between different sources, I've connected

Abraham and Isaac

all the way to Golgotha. So just as a quick and dirty, Abraham is told by God, "Take your son Isaac,

the son you've been waiting for, right? Take him to a place I will show you and sacrifice him." That happens to be Mount Moriah.

Okay, so takes him up there. He's about to slit the throat of his son, the angel of the Lord.

So this is probably a Christophany. This is probably Jesus says, "No, don't do it. You've proven yourself.

I'm going to make of you a great nation. Every nation will be blessed because of you, blah, blah, blah."

And then guess what the Lord provided?

A ram that was stuck in a thicket. What is a ram? An adult male lamb.

What does a thicket include? Thorns. What part of the ram was stuck in the thicket? Its head.

So a sacrificial lamb was stuck in a crown of thorns?

Okay, now let's fast forward a thousand years. You've got the the valley of Elah. You've got a Philistine out there

that's 10 feet tall telling, you know, the Israelites, "Hey, your God doesn't exist. Send your champion out here. Fight me."

David, a shepherd boy that likes to play the harp, basically volunteers and says, "I'm your huckleberry." Goes out there,

Pam, hits him in the in the middle of the forehead with a rock, goes over there,

takes his own sword, chops his head off, and then the Bible tells us that David took the

head of Goliath to Jerusalem.

And that's where the Bible stops.

This is where you have to get into early rabbinical writings and some of the early Christian and

Jewish traditions.

So at that time, it's not the city of David because David isn't even David yet.

It's a Jebusite fortress.

They're not going to let you parade the decapitated head of your enemy throughout a Jebusite fortress.

So he went to a hill nearby and purportedly, or reportedly, buried the head there on that

hill.

What was the name of that hill?

Mount Moriah.

Remember Abraham and Isaac, Mount Moriah?

Okay.

They bury the head.

That place became colloquially known as the place of a skull, Golgotha.

Okay?

Fast forward another thousand years, that's where Jesus was murdered by the Romans at

the behest of the Jewish Sanhedrin.

So you have God's promise with Abraham and Isaac and a substitutionary sacrifice.

You've got David killing one of God's enemies, which was a foreshadowing of the death of

death, which was going to happen at the cross of Golgotha, and that's where Jesus ends up.

You can't make those connections if you don't read the Bible, fellas.

Right.

And dude, I was one of the worst offenders at this, Brian.

A few years ago, I read 54 books for my podcast.

So if you're coming on my show, by golly, I'm going to read your book, okay?

And look, it's got scripture in it, so it's almost like I'm reading the Bible a lot of

these times, right?

But I get to the end of the year and I realize I had not read 54 chapters of the Bible.

And I was like, "Nope, nope, that's it."

We came up with the forging table.

That's where me and three other laymen sit around the table and we do Bible study together,

one chapter of the Bible at a time, one hour at a time.

We've gone through Genesis, we've gone through Nehemiah, we've gone through Matthew, we've

gone through Acts, we've gone through some Pauline letters, some Proverbs and Psalms,

and we're going to be hitting up Romans later on this year.

And then, you know, Jobi and I launched the Daily Blade.

It's just kind of like quick Bible five minute stuff

for guys like locker room style.

And so I identified the problem and I didn't just lament.

I didn't just, oh, well, wouldn't it be nice if, right?

No, I executed, I got after it

because it's what's required of me as a disciple of Jesus.

- I love that.

I'd love to hear your, just from a personal standpoint,

and it's so good in the midst of,

like you're hearing right now, Kyle's example

of I'm doing this right, I'm doing this right,

I'm doing this right.

It's great to hear, like he's,

you're listening to the Holy Spirit

and ready for conviction at any given moment too,

and saying, "Hey, I realize, I look back now,

"this needs to tighten up."

What are some areas you feel like God's

pressing in on right now?

I know that's more of a personal question,

but how do you feel like the Holy Spirit's just growing you?

- Yeah, I'm an open book.

For me, it really goes back to what I said earlier,

lamb with them, lion for them.

I feel like my boys, James and Eli,

five and three years old,

they've seen the lion a little too much.

And so for me, that's a part for me to where it's like,

again, I kind of have this natural bend

towards explosive anger.

Like I'm not, there's not a whole bunch of holes

in the drywall in my house or anything like that.

So don't get the wrong idea.

But I think the kids have seen unnecessary harshness.

And so I think it's in Colossians where it says,

"Do not be harsh with your wife,"

like any of those types of things.

Sometimes, because my studio is in my home,

so I don't have a drive home to recalibrate

and turn Kyle from Undaunted off.

I just walked down the stairs.

And so sometimes, you know, my lovely bride, Kelsey,

and my two boys, they get Kyle from "Undaunted."

They get fired up, Kyle, that just got done

recording a podcast about, you know,

how a baby was murdered in a particular thing.

And again, if I'm gonna equip men to push back darkness,

I consume a lot of darkness.

I go to very, very dark places in this world

so that I can gather intel,

so that I can equip the men that listen to my show

to be able to push back darkness when they see it

and sense it and feel it.

And so that's the biggest thing for me is calibration

to where it's like, again, the boys in my wife

need to know that the lion is available

at the drop of a hat,

but they don't need to see him all the time.

- Yeah, that's good.

How do you feel like when you're discerning things like that

and you could take this question broader than that,

how do you see the Holy Spirit intersecting

with your own spiritual life?

- Oh, I just assume I'm wrong a lot.

And so that's, you know, some people approach the Bible

Like, do I like this or not?

So if I have an opinion that is contrary

to what the Bible says,

you have to train yourself to be like, you're wrong.

And the thing is too,

is if you get one of those whispers in your ear

and you're having trouble discerning,

is this the Holy Spirit or is this Satan?

What do you put it through in terms of a filter?

The word of God, right?

How do we know that something that's almost true is false?

Scripture.

Because guess what?

Satan was giving Jesus a bunch of almost truths when he was in the desert.

They were real close, right?

They were just completely false, but almost true simultaneously.

That's what Melissa Dougherty, who's a new friend of mine, she wrote a great book called

Happy Lies about the New Thought Revolution.

So New Age is very overt.

It's crystals and tarot cards and, you know, otherworldly spiritualism or whatever.

It's kind of easy to identify that as an issue.

thought looks and feels and seems Christian, right? New thought will ask

questions like, "Did God really say?" And then, you know, dunder-headed, soft-headed

Christians will just go along with it because they don't want to seem divisive

and also they're lazy and they don't want to do their own research. And so

that's the thing for me, is the more adept I get at the Bible, the more

theologically astute I become, the easier it is for me to surmise, "Wait a minute,

this is false. This is something that seems true, but it's not." Well, on the

flip side, if you sense the Spirit of God, if you sense one of those prompts

and nudges and it aligns with everything you know to be true of God's Word and

God's character, then you can feel like, "Hey, this feels like a move in that

direction kind of a thing." So I think that's where you can't

isolate, "Hey, just subjectively, I just feel the Spirit saying apart

from God's Word," but obviously God's Word doesn't directly prescribe every jot

and tittle of how we live life, and that's where the Holy Spirit is. "Am I

supposed to take this meeting? Am I supposed to do a second podcast with

Brian, I'd like to say you were really sensitive

to the Holy Spirit on that one.

You know, I don't know, but in terms of--

- Well, I regret it wholeheartedly at this point.

You know, this is going really poorly,

but no, like in all sincerity,

I have a coaching program called Dominion

for guys that want more one-on-one coaching,

more proximity to me and people like me.

You know, I have that on my website.

And one of the pillars of that is, you know,

execution over ideas, which we've already talked about.

But for a lot of these people,

they're not operating with intellectual honesty

or with any type of rigor.

And another one of the pillars is direction over vision.

So many people get a vision for their life, right?

A vision of what God's telling me to do, blah, blah, blah,

and then they go and burn all the ships and all that.

God's gonna give you a direction.

He's not gonna show you the whole path.

The word is a lamp unto our feet,

even though we want it to be a floodlight, right?

That shows us the whole way.

Brother, if God showed you the entire trajectory

of your life, you would be paralyzed with fear.

There's no way you would be able to even take a step.

So he's just gonna show you a little bit farther ahead,

little bit farther ahead and he wants you to stay connected to the vine as it were.

So he doesn't want to just show you everything.

All right, here's the next thousand steps of your life.

Have fun.

I'll be here if you need me.

No, he wants you to be dependent and reliant upon him along the way.

And so that's why you just get a little bit of the piece.

You get a little bit of direction, you know, Hey, Abram, I need you to leave

the, your father's house and leave the land that you know, where am I going?

I don't know.

I'll show you.

Right.

Right.

And then you, you gotta convince your wife, Hey, come along.

And that's like one of the worst sales pitches of all time.

Hey, Sarah, we're leaving, where are we going?

No idea, but get your crap.

And so like at some point,

Job says this all the time and I love it.

It's pray, guess, go.

You pray, God, give me some discernment,

help me, tell me the next steps, whatever the thing is.

And then you listen, right?

You guess, what am I getting, right?

What do I think God's saying?

And you test that guess with other people,

with through prayer, through the scripture,

and then you just gotta go.

You pray, you guess, and you go.

So many people pray, they don't even mess with guessing,

and go is like a faraway land in concept.

No, pray, guess, go, execute.

And can we just add that if you go and it's difficult,

or you go and it seems like it fails,

that doesn't mean you weren't supposed to go.

I think sometimes people are like,

"Oh man, if it wasn't all like butterflies and rainbows,

"it must not have been God's will."

Man, if it was really hard and involved some kind of

difficulty, persecution, setback,

that might be more of a confirmation of God's will

than if it was like swimmingly easy.

- 100%.

- Yeah.

- 100%, the easier something is,

the more I'm like, wait a minute, something's off here.

Because you can't read scripture

and come away with this idea that once I accept God,

it's all rainbows and unicorns and bathrooms

full of money in the walls, right?

Shout out to all the pastors in Houston.

But that's one of those things that it's rough

for us to kind of wrap our minds around,

Like, wait a minute.

So I get this awesome gift

and then my life's just gonna suck from here on out?

It's like, well, yeah, kinda.

Because all of the apostles

were killed in these horrific fashions, right?

Crucified, crucified upside down, stone to death.

They had their skin peeled off.

They were torn apart by animals.

You know, John was the only one that kind of got out alive.

They tried to boil him,

but it's like, I guess you can't kill the guy

who Jesus told to take care of his mama.

But at the same time, it's like,

where do you get this narrative

that things are just supposed to be easy for you?

No, when I start to feel resistance,

that's when I know I'm over something,

that I'm over the X, because guess what?

The tip of the spear is lonely,

and that's where you get the most amount of flack.

So the further you make your way to the tip of the spear,

the more you should expect some people to push back.

Yeah, right on.

I used to say to folks, I still do occasionally here,

but man, if you're in a place of discernment

and you start feeling fear about whatever it is

that you're going, actually count that

as it very well may be confirmation

the Holy Spirit's drawing you,

not that he's just trying to dissuade you from it.

That being said, when you write a Bible study for YouTube

and it goes absolutely bananas, that's a good thing too

and can be an equally a sign that God's favor

is on something.

- Yeah, yeah, it was the YouVersion app.

- YouVersion, thanks.

- Yeah, it doesn't matter.

But like the thing about that is it's okay to get wins,

I think is what you're kind of going with

'cause those are confirmations.

So like the Daily Blade that Jobi and I launched,

within two or three days of launch,

we were in the like the top 40 of all podcasts in existence

within a few days, the Associated Press named us the number three new podcast of 2025 in

all categories.

Amazing.

Right?

And this started with a phone call to Joby like, "Hey, there's nothing for like normal

dudes that want to just get a little bit of Bible, a little bit of information, something

to chew on every day, you know, locker room style, safety meeting out on the oil patch

style."

And then it just kind of grows into that.

That's good.

That's confirmation.

But at the same time, you don't always get all five-star reviews.

I had someone tell me a day or two ago that my dominion coaching program, where I'm trying

to get people to push back darkness for the sake of Christ, is basically Andrew Tate's

Hustler University, where he's teaching people how to get hoes and make money.

And I'm like, "Okay, well, I could look at that and I could spend time dwelling on what

somebody ignorantly thinks of what I'm doing and take that as, 'Oh, this is oppression,'

or I can just put it in the category of what it is."

and ignoramus making a comment, you know, basically out of his rear end.

And then I just go on and keep operating and pushing the guys that

know what they need to be doing.

They just need a little bit of help.

Right on, right on.

Um, couple last questions and we'll, we'll call it a wrap.

Um, I know you've got a great list, a book list on your website

about your like a hundred top books.

But if right now a guy's like, you know what, I'm going to read three books.

And, uh, if you had to, if you had to just say, man, uh, these are my top three.

outside of the Bible, obviously.

Yeah, well, the Bible's a library, it's not a book, so it's in its own category.

If they can only read three books, so it's on donna.life/booklist,

you can get the whole list, it's the hundred books that every modern Christian man should read.

Number one is Fearless, it's my favorite book of all time.

It's a biography of a Navy SEAL that was killed in an absolutely extreme set of circumstances

that brought this guy to Christ, that brought this guy to the battlefield.

One of the most insane stories of resilience

that I've ever heard in my entire life.

Eric Blem is the author of that.

The second one that comes to mind, I'll go ahead and,

gosh, that's a really good question.

Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis.

- Yeah.

- It's a difficult book because he's kind of old English,

but density per page,

that is just an absolute killer of a book.

and I'm stretching out my answer to the second one

as I think of a third one.

- Let me riff on number two.

It's interesting, I did a huge study on folks

who are leading CEOs, leading companies,

leading in the marketplace, leading in the public sphere,

and it was interesting, this author

had hundreds of interviews.

The number one book, hands down,

that had led people to Christ

and were influential in their spiritual journeys

was "Mere Christianity."

it was hands down a theme across all of those leaders.

If you haven't read "Mere Christianity,"

read "Mere Christianity."

I gave you about 60 seconds more.

Third book?

- I'm ready.

So I didn't wanna say this,

but for whatever reason, it's all I could think of,

so let's just go with it.

"Bonhoeffer" by Eric Metaxas.

So that is a biography of Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

He was a pastor that was caught in the middle

of a coup attempt to try and kill Hitler, right?

And so the dude's an absolute gangster.

And he was like a bookworm guy.

This is not, he's not six foot five, you know, 2% body fat and neck tattoos.

This was like a bookworm guy.

Like this was not like an imposing guy, but he literally

was trying to kill Hitler.

Right.

And so the other reason why I would suggest that book is because it's, it's 500 pages.

It's not an, it's not an easy read.

It's a lot of information and I'm big on, Hey, let's not work on small victories.

Like let's take out the biggest, nastiest thing first.

And then everything else will seem kind of easy by comparison, but yeah.

Fearless, the biography of Adam Brown, and then we've got C.S. Lewis's Mere

Christianity, and then Bonhoeffer by Metaxas. I'll have to check out

Fearless, I haven't read it, the other two are both fantastic, and I'll tell

you what, with Bonhoeffer, I mean, you have to get through the earlier stuff,

which is part of every biography of understand the childhood and all the

things, but man, I know I'm not the average reader, but once I got into

him starting to really grow as a man, I couldn't put the thing down. I

for Christmas for some of them, it's still collecting dust on their bookshelves, but

someday, someday they're going to pick that sucker up.

They're going to listen to this podcast and say, it's time.

Hey, uh, before we get off Kyle, anything else you want to add before we close?

Yeah.

The main thing is, uh, in terms of a soft place to land, uh, in terms of the content

that I produce is the daily blade again, guys, that is, you know, I get it.

Someone sends you Joby Martin sermon.

It's an hour long.

You don't know if you're going to like it.

You're a busy guy.

listen to podcasts at two times speed because you're a loser.

And it's like, that's, that's a big, could be a big waste of your time.

Someone sends you my podcast.

Who's this angry ginger screaming about who's it's what's it's.

And you know, talking to random people.

Yeah.

Maybe that's, that's a waste of your time.

You got five minutes and Monday through Friday, he does a week.

I do a week.

He does a week.

I do week.

And we'll bring on some guests.

Matt Chandler is going to be our first guest and some different folks like that.

We have you in mind.

Okay.

Most men's content is women's content that has been repackaged.

They put camo or metal or dirt on it

and then they shove it in front of your face

and say, "Consume this or you're a bad person," right?

No, Jobi is a man's man pastor.

I try to be a man's man prophet.

And we're just giving you Bible.

We don't have time to conjugate a Greek verb.

We're not gonna go into a long discussion

of something that John Piper would say.

It's, here's this part of the Bible.

Here's something you should think about

as it pertains to this.

We'll see you tomorrow.

And so thedailyblade.com or the Daily Blade on Spotify

or I think it's on YouTube and Apple Podcasts,

all the places, right?

That is the thing.

You're trying to get just an elbow in

with a friend from work or something like that,

send him that.

He's not gonna listen to your favorite theologian

talk about something in the Greek.

He's just not gonna do it.

But he's gonna listen to something in the Daily Blade.

And it's just that little window

into kind of what you're doing.

And the funniest thing about the Daily Blade

is we decided from the beginning,

no ads, no sponsors, nothing.

So literally, it is just a time investment on Job and I,

and our schedules are ridiculously full.

Why are we doing it?

To equip the saints for the spread of the gospel,

to equip men to be able to push back darkness,

to invite that one more and compel him

to come into the kingdom of God

and give his life over to Christ.

And so if you're looking for something

that is gonna help you on a daily basis,

but could potentially help the guys around you,

don't keep that a secret.

- Yeah, that's a great word.

It's a great, great tool.

and Job is one of my all-time favorite pastors.

And so to have the two of you

on one devotional podcast is amazing.

And then obviously "Undaunted Life" podcast is fantastic.

Great conversations both with guests

and with doing the Bible studies,

so deeper dives like that.

Kyle, thank you so much for jumping on today.

I really appreciate it.

And I think, you know,

back to your opening illustration of the general, man,

I feel like round two was better than round one,

so God was in it.

I think he was in it.

And so shout out again to Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman.

You are the man.

You taught this numbskull knuckle dragger how to have a little bit of grace when he's

faced with a modicum of adversity.

So I was happy to do it.

It was a great time.

And thanks for gently correcting me every time I get his title wrong.

You are a gracious, gracious guest and you are the man.

So hey, Kyle, have a great day.

All right.

Thanks again.

Appreciate it.

Well, I hope you've enjoyed that conversation with Kyle.

I know I did.

I got to kind of have it twice, but I'll tell you right now,

it got even better the second time around.

So I'm super, super grateful that Kyle was willing

to invest a couple hours here at Made to Advance.

And hey, if this whole conversation with Kyle

was encouraging to you, was helpful,

was strengthening, was challenging,

please rate and review our podcast.

It's gonna get this conversation out further and further

to other folks who will benefit from it.

It's been a production of Getty Church

and we have more great conversations on the way.

And so until next time, know you were made to advance.