Men Judge Women SHOCKER_mixdown ===

Speaker: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to the Mr. Pick, me and the Man Hater Show. I am your host, Mrs. Man Hater.

I'm the man hater.

Speaker 2: Hello, Mrs. Man. Hater.

Speaker: Even though I don't hate men, and this is introduce yourself, stranger.

Speaker 2: I'm Checo, Mr. Pick me. Even though I've already been picked, we normally, we don't introduce ourself as Mr. And Mrs because it leads to assumptions.

Speaker: You do, you do. Mr. Pick me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I, yeah, but not combined.

Combined. It sounds

Speaker: The second, well, my brain freaked out, and then I wanted to say, Mr. And I said, that's not right. So then I said, Mrs. And then I was too deep in, I couldn't just like say, scratch that.

Speaker 2: For longtime listeners, I do wanna point out that I did not mess up our intro today. And I literally said to Reagan right before we started, I don't have anything to mess up [00:01:00] our intro today.

And she said, just be normal. And I was normal.

Speaker: Do you know what it is? So I said, just be normal. And he said, okay. And then he just screamed into the microphone. I

Speaker 2: was ready. I was pumped up. I was like, here's that. Woo. It's the normal podcast. Let's do it. No normal, no normal, normal, normal, normal.

Speaker: Actually, no friends.

That's a lie. Today is not a normal podcast because JustCo upset. Again, I am. JustCo sent me a video. That never happens. Usually both of us are upset about something, but definitely at least one. What are we upset about today, Jessica?

Speaker 2: Today we are talking about. Justice for RI theme song. You want bad advice, man?

I'll give it out. Glad I got some good advice for you. You don't, I know you don't. I got some

Speaker 3: good advice. You don't, you don't.

Speaker 4: Is it a serious topic?

Speaker 2: No.

Speaker 4: It sounds like it's gonna be like [00:02:00]

Speaker 2: if people are gonna think it's really, really more serious than, I mean, there's serious aspects of it.

Speaker: Okay. Just for our listeners, we're, the topic is not that serious.

It sounded like there's a human rights issue, but it's not that Actually, I don't know what it is.

Speaker 2: Well, well you know what? See, you haven't seen it. Maybe this is the most serious top. This is a special episode of Mr. Pgme and the Man Hater.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: Um, I listed as under comedy again for our, I'm not sure what I should have as under relationships or comedy.

Um, 'cause we talk about. Like relationships, but it's not, I do feel like we try to focus more on laughing about also the absurdity.

Speaker: I wanna give a personal middle finger to you, Checo, because what are you guess Who shows up on my freaking Instagram feed nearly every day? Oh, the Cowboy. Our friend. Our friend.

The Cowboy. The Cowboy who's Casanova, who's giving very scary advice to me.

Speaker 2: Lud is in fact a very [00:03:00] specific type of kink called Primal Play. Does he say he's that? He does not say it. This is, that's, I still stand by. It's problematic to give advice on the internet for a very specific kink without a no, no.

'cause I don't think he realizes he's giving advice for a kink. Oh yeah. Because he's not

Speaker: acting like he's, he's saying like, everybody's gonna love this.

Speaker 2: Yeah. No, he gave advice. Let's advice to ag. He gave advice the other day about, uh. I don't even, I can't even say it. You have have to. I think it takes, I think it takes our podcast to another like rating.

I don't, he says it was, he was like, how about I don't, I don't know how to say this is for, if I'm uncomfortable saying it, it's could he does this, uh, hand gesture.

No, that's a very visual thing, but it was, it had to do with this, and it was specifically about including this, this finger.

Speaker: Okay. Jessica, this is audio podcast

Speaker 2: two in the pink one in [00:04:00] the Stinks. All right. Is that, that's the, that's what he was going for. I'm cutting that out. I'm cutting that out. There's no way.

That is the old phrase. And he's, but he's saying it as like a, here's how to get your lady riled up at dinner. You show two fingers. That's like middle school boys. Two fingers. Yeah. And then you also show her your pinky finger and say before it ha. Oh. To keep it like, we need to do something. It was like, it was something, it was so weird.

That's horrific. That's not what this, that's not what today's episode's about. Reagan.

Speaker: That is horrific. That's like middle school boy.

Speaker 2: But, and that's the point is he is giving the advice of a middle school boy, but to like, be like, Hey boys, as a happily married man, this is how you keep your wife happy.

Speaker: You send that man to jail. Because I tell you what, if, if men pull that on their wife of 30 years

Speaker 2: straight to jail, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, the same. It's a different type of [00:05:00] problematic because like I said, the people that are into that type of kink, that's fine. I'm sure it's graded. That's fine. And if you were saying, Hey, to my people in this community, here's one thing I do, I think your lady's gonna love.

Right. This is, that's different versus, because it's the exact same problem that these fucking manosphere guys say. Like, what? Here's what women want. And it's, they say a lot more. They're like, they, they really horrific things. Yes. Like I, I, I think there's a difference between, I think this man genuinely thinks he's giving good advice.

Speaker: And I disagree. I think it's the, but I, I, it's just this idea of these poor women out there who are gonna receive this advice.

Speaker 2: And it's probably older, although I Wait, that's what I'm saying. We realize he's my age, which is still

Speaker: Yeah. But who's listening to him?

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's probably older men. Yes. Trying to rekindle something.

That's what I'm

Speaker: thinking. I can't believe he did the hand gesture. That is, I remember learning that like, uh, the boys would like, [00:06:00] like do that hand gesture. I told you I didn't wanna

Speaker 2: say it. You forced me this time. Well,

Speaker: you all you did was like, it's an audio podcast. You just said the hand like this.

Speaker 2: How do you describe it though?

Without saying what I said

Speaker: Wait, didn't they call it the shocker? I, that's what it's called. I think

Speaker 2: that was the shocker, right? Yeah,

Speaker: because I mistakenly asked what that hand gesture meant and um, I did not like what I found out.

Speaker 2: Not Jamie, anybody that's into as play. That is not what we are. Not ashamed podcast.

I'm just also saying though, that's not something you should surprise your person with, man or woman, whatever, or across any genders. He's killing

Speaker 3: me. Don't,

Speaker 2: don't give him a surprise shock that way. That's something you need to have a conversation about ahead of time. We have to move on. I'm choking affirmative consent.

That's important thing. It's not just. No, it is affirmative consent on something like that.

Speaker: Honestly, of most things. [00:07:00] Affirmative consent.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So say it's, it's not just, there's a whole conversation I thought was really important about, it's not just enough to say no, like that, that she didn't say no. Right.

It's, you need her to like, like for, it's a conversation like telling, as far as consent is concerned. Uh, she should be saying, yes, let's do this. As opposed to just, well, she didn't say no.

Speaker: Oh, so you're a clear instead of, instead of teaching no

Speaker 2: means no teach. And then there's the other one, which

Speaker: is, uh, enthusiastic.

Speaker 2: Enthusiastic set. Yeah. But like, like, okay, I got it. It needs to be, yeah. That's kind of, this is my

Speaker: least favorite intro ever. I almost died. I choked to death. I can't believe any of the things that were said today

Speaker 2: on the bright side. It has nothing to do with what we're about to talk about.

Speaker: Here's a good test, because I always cut out this crap.

When we say crazy stuff, I, I cut it out last week. We'll leave it in this week and you'd be the judge. They can decide. You

Speaker 2: let us know. Let us know the comments. Do [00:08:00] you wanna hear unhinged? Okay. I mean, it's better. Our pre-show was us just like basically doing a political podcast, which is what happens a lot.

We first day

Speaker: of school and politics,

Speaker 2: if you wanna hear our unofficial political podcast plus random stuff about our lives. Go to the Paton. Let's hear the video. Reagan. So here, let me give a, give a little insight. Yeah, give some background, give before the video. Okay. So this is, uh, it's a, it's a account called Provo's.

Most eligible is Provo in Utah. I don't know. I've never heard of it. Where's, where is I think it is, let me look it up. Yeah. Provo, Utah. Okay. So this is, uh, near Bri, near Brigham Young University, it looks like. Oh no, it's not that close.

Speaker 4: Near what?

Speaker 2: Brigham Young. The, the Mormon University. Brigham Young.

B-Y-U-B-Y-U.

Speaker: Oh, you heard of that? Well, I've heard of, I just haven't heard it pronounced, I guess.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, black Menace does a lot of interview there, Uhhuh. That cracking me up. So this is a dating [00:09:00] show in a very large Mormon population. Um, in, in this. So, so that I think does add some, uh. Some context to what we're about to see.

Flavor, yeah. Uh, flavor to it. I don't actually, no, actually I don't think that matters really. 'cause this is just, uh, at the end of the day, it's a dating, it's a dating show for young college students looking to find love. And, and we have here, uh, it looks like they have them, them stand up and kind of introduce themselves to the other, to the, to the, I believe they have a white sheet kind of in between, so they're not able to see.

Mm-hmm. Uh, who's talking, but, uh, what, here's a young woman named Riley who introduced herself, and what's the reaction? Of the dudes on the other side.

Speaker: Oh, so I'm going to hate it as, as

Speaker 2: what you're saying, you're it. It made me very upset.

Speaker: Oh no. Okay.

Speaker 6: Okay. I'm ri, I'm 24. I'm from Houston, Texas, and [00:10:00] honestly, I'm down for any good adventure.

I just got scuba DIVE certified and I'm planning to go to Australia this summer, so I'm super excited about that. And then I just picked up skiing like two years ago and I honestly love any themed party. Like those are like my favorite things to go to, my favorite things to plan, and I'm looking for someone that wants to be my adventure buddy, and it's someone that I can trust in and is gonna be there for me.

Aw,

Speaker 3: okay. If any general would like to get to know Riley more, please step forward.

Speaker 4: They're nervous. Come, come on guys. Anyone come?

Speaker 6: Hey Riley, we're gonna have you sit down, but thank you for introducing yourself. Yeah.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: And need, I point out that the guys who are adults, they're in the college, are doing that super annoying thing [00:11:00] that middle schoolers do, which is like she's introducing herself. Mm-hmm. And they're like, would anybody like to go with ri?

And they're literally like, oh, this guy would like mm-hmm. Pointing to each other and laughing and they're like

Speaker 2: mocking each, they, they're like, yeah. While she's introducing herself. Yes. Which, first off, she sounds awesome.

Speaker: Uh, let me just tell you about this cutie patootie. She has a beautiful little crocheted flower vest on that is so cute.

She has gorgeous hair. She is so fun. Like I'm watching this thinking like mm-hmm. I would hang out with this. Well, not now. 'cause they're hd the H cap, right? Yeah. But, uh, but like, I would be her friend, like, she seems so fun.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: And they're like, did you see those dweebs? Yeah. Like you're judging her.

Speaker 2: That's the whole, somebody wrote, uh, this is a bunch of threes, really having a lot of high judgments about an eight. Yeah. I was like, I, I don't much, I don't make, make number judgments of people, but like, it, it's what happened there. And this is, I genuinely, fully think this is a great, like a perfect [00:12:00] explanation or perfect like visualization of how, um, men will do anything to impress other men, right?

Yes. This is all about the boys. So much more about what the other guys you're gonna think about them. Then about actual happiness, then about actually, uh, going after someone that might make them happy. That doesn't matter because if the boys don't approve and they saw guys giggling and doing that school yard bullshit, 12-year-old thing, bullshit in there, for those of you that are audio listening to this, that are, are, are, are mocking this, this young woman for, for sharing nothing worth mocking, uh, in this, she

Speaker 4: likes a themed party.

God forbid she'd

Speaker: be

Speaker 2: interesting. And, uh, there's a follow up video where she shares another thing, uh, as well, like what she's into. And it's, I'm like, what is happening? Right. Yeah. It's, it's, and like, don't get me wrong, she doesn't have to be for everybody, but I guarantee you there were guys in that group that if they were all individually Yes.

Listening with like, like in, in a room by themself, there were several of them that'd be like, she sounds [00:13:00] great. Right. That sounds fantastic.

Speaker: She scuba dives. Mm-hmm. You don't wanna hang out with a scuba diver. Mm-hmm. She wants to have, she wants to have experiences. Mm-hmm. Like is, I thought that's what the men wanted.

They didn't want like Right. Uh, gold diggers or whatever. No, but it was the second two seven experiences.

Speaker 2: The second, the second somebody started like insinuating, like, what a dork, what a nerd. Yeah. Versus is. Then all the rest of 'em were like, oh yeah, no. Oh, like all silently. Yeah. I will, I wouldn't wanna be a part of this at all.

Speaker: I would rather go home alone. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Then

Speaker: yeah, I bet so.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh God. Just if this is, this might be one of the ones you want to see visually on our YouTube. Yeah. Just to see their faces. They're jerk faces.

Speaker 4: They're stupid little Raf faces.

Speaker 2: Uh, and like, I don't know. Ri might could, she could very well be a terrible person.

There's

Speaker: a guy in a puffer

Speaker 2: coat, but Yeah. Are you mess? Are you,

Speaker: he has a black shiny puffer coat and he's being judged.

Speaker 2: I don't, I know nothing about any of these people other than what is going on in this moment. [00:14:00] But also the one guy that is like giggling and laughing mm-hmm. The most in the background later on says in another clip from this, we could play more of what he is like, I'm a big Jesus guy.

Church guy. Oh, well,

Speaker: it doesn't seem like you know him.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. It doesn't sound like you're very, uh, it, it's always like, and it's like, eh, you would be one of those guys. It's like mm-hmm. Very much like on the surface, like, oh, this is, this is what the ladies like to hear in Utah. Yeah. Then I'm a big Jesus guy.

It's,

Speaker: it's a lack of understanding. Like, I'm big into Jesus. Probably I go to church, probably my family's into it. 'cause most Mormons, it's like a family thing.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: But it's like, but you don't behave in any of the ways that he teaches. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: Okay. I don't, I don't like any of the actual teachings of Jesus.

I really like this misogyny thing we got going on though. Yeah. I heard I can get a place in these, in these evangelical spaces I really like

Speaker 3: mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: That men get to do to treat women like property. That sounds great.

Speaker 3: That's the part I'm into

Speaker 2: ignore the rest of the [00:15:00] teachings. That's, uh, which is what a lot of 'em are doing.

Mm-hmm. Uh, let's see. And I always say this is, there was, there was a, a friend of mine, uh, that, uh, I made a comment on one of our videos. I was like, I try not to bash for like, all belief systems of religions. Mm-hmm. Right? That, that you're, that's not usually your belief system is a problem. It's the people Right.

That are misinterpreting it and, and applying mm-hmm. Their versions of it to harm other people. That is the problem. Right. And this is, this is, uh, I think he's one of those people where he is like, he's mocking her, he is making fun of her. And then later on. I'm a big Jesus guy.

Speaker 3: Really? Really? Because you're giving confession later.

What's

Speaker: his name? Uh, shit. Uh, come on Catholic. I went to Catholic school. What's his name? Judas. You're giving Judas vibes. Traitor. You fucking Judas.

Speaker 2: Uh, and she even, uh, in a later on, and that's why I say she, I, I don't know what kind of person she is outside of this video, but in that clip though, she like, [00:16:00] like quotes a, a bible verse.

I mean, she's like, I got it. So she's like, she has all these things. These guys are saying that they, that they want. But no, they've decided she is not cool enough. And so

Speaker: I, I don't know if there's many things, like many things that get me so riled up, RI ri riled up, riled up, riled up. Uhhuh as like bullying where you can see it happening.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. There's like, I, ooh, when you can, I mean, you can see it in everyday life, like if you're going out somewhere and then like. Some, like you can see people being like, I will mm-hmm. Fight a stranger. I'll absolutely. Or at least befriend a stranger. Mm-hmm. Like if I see somebody who needs a friend anyways, that's not the point.

Right. But seeing shit like this where someone is like burying their, like, like, you, you little assholes. You came here for this. Like, that's what this is. It's someone standing up and bearing like just at least pretend to listen. Like you don't have to like her, you don't have to wanna be with her. You don't have to go on a date with her.

But to sit [00:17:00] there and judge her and, and make fun of her, like for the boys, by the way, you dumb dumbs, the girls can see you. You think the other women like that? You think the other women are gonna see you being mean to her and be like, Ooh, that's the man I want the kind of man who makes a woman feel like shit.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Like

Speaker: way to show them what they're gonna have for the next 20 years.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: I'm not even mad about this. I'm totally calm.

Speaker 2: I think what makes me upset about this though, and this is what it comes down, the, the, obviously a theme we've talked about a lot though, male loneliness, loneliness, epidemic mm-hmm.

Is that these guys will then go back and be like, the same ones that are yelling about women will only choose the top 10% of guys. Yeah. And it's so hard to find someone and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, because they're also only there, there was a conversation I think is, is very valid and needs to continue happening is there was, there was a guy that was, I don't remember the video.

Hope maybe I could find it. We could throw it in here if we, if I do, it'll be hard to find. The internet's very big. Uh, but he was yelling, [00:18:00] he was like, there's nothing worse than being hit on by an ugly woman. You do. You see that one? And, and it is like Uhhuh. He is not like the most attractive guy in the world.

Speaker: Hold on, wait.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker: I bet I can find it. I, I think I saved it. You and I tend to do the same videos and it's kind of embarrassing.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker: This happened the other day.

Speaker 2: I mean, this is why we, we have a podcast together now. I'm

Speaker: like, there was one I was literally about to do a video of, and then I was like, well, Checo did it.

I feel like we say the same thing.

Speaker 2: No, but I do think we, we have different, we have different perspective on things though. Usually there, like, the only reason the other day I texted you, I was like, oh my God, I'm, I already recorded the video about the, uh, the guy that was yelling at his wife. Yeah. Uh, which we could do a whole podcast, but we could have done our whole podcast about that guy too.

Um, but uh, I was like, no, our video are are still pretty different. Yeah. I don't think we, we, we approached it in pretty different ways.

Speaker: There's, I think, so there's similar places Similar saying the

Speaker 2: same, we're saying the same point, but in, in our own version of saying it. [00:19:00] Yeah.

Speaker: Okay. Listen, so this is the guy.

I have it saved,

Speaker 2: so

Speaker 5: nothing is more worse than an ugly chick. Shooting her shot at you. And I know all my guys could definitely relate to this. Like I'm telling y'all we could be chilling, focus on ourselves, try to improve ourselves in life grinding. Then they just come along. The mid ones. I'm so serious.

Like it literally could be anywhere. Especially the workplace.

Speaker: Oh, hold on. I wanna point out. He said ugly and then he said mid. Mm-hmm. So it's not even quote unquote ugly girls. Mm-hmm. It's even mildly midway attractive is is gross to him or what

Speaker 2: he deems to be midway attractive to, which is

Speaker: usually like Swee, what's her name?

Sydney Sweeney,

Speaker 2: right? Yeah.

Speaker: Margo Robbie.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Because you have to see that same girl every single day. So you already know she's gonna try to send smoke your way, shooting her shot so many times she'll give you those hint, [00:20:00] those signals. It's crazy, bro. And it's like, girl, stop. I'm not feeling you. Can you get the hit?

But at the same time, you're not trying to be an asshole, like a jackass about it. You're trying to be cool as much as possible, but she in her mind, thinking like, you got something going on. But at the same time, we don't, but we all know it's a part of the game. They gonna be coming in, shooting they shot, you know what I'm saying?

Being bold, because if they like you enough, they're gonna shoot they shot, bro. They're gonna try to get what they can get, but always remember if she's going, that doesn't mean you had to either.

Speaker 2: The thing that is there, there's, there's data, uh, um, and in general that shows that people tend to, uh, the, the, and this is, it's, it is still in a weird.

Area of data and research. Mm-hmm. But in general, it shows that if you, if you ask enough people about to rate someone's attractiveness, whatever, you can get a good sense of what the [00:21:00] general beauty standards of a society rates someone as. Right. And I'm not saying that it's correct because of the fact that I think there's a lot of problematic things that go into those beauty standards.

Right. But in general, when you look at the, the research that has been done on dating and attraction, people tend to only go for people that are roughly in their level of a, of a we, we have it as inherent part of our brain can sense kind of how people are viewing us and how, how people would view this other person.

And we tend to approach people, uh, that, that, or end up with people at least that are. Of a roughly similar level of attraction. It doesn't always happen. Obviously there are exceptions to this. Sure. Attraction is subjective, yada, yada, yada. Things go into that. But the, the reason I think that's funny to bring up is that he, like a guy like this will say it happens because he is making it sound like it happens all the time.

All the time. Meaning [00:22:00] that, because I don't think, how often do men get hit on, uh, especially if you're like an average dude. Like this is not like this a dawns of a man. It's like

Speaker: he would, he would, I I would think according to like male standards for themselves and other men, he's not in the top. I don't, I don't even know going off of how men judgment.

Speaker 2: Right. I, I always feel that's what I was, I always feel uncomfortable judging someone, but just in general,

Speaker: I'm just going off of how I would assume Yeah. Other men because their standards are crazy, so. Right. Um, he's not, I don't think he'd be the alpha mm-hmm. In a group Right. Deemed by other men who think their alphas.

Speaker 2: I could just say like, it, it's, there's, I think it's not like, and it's also not like he's a celebrity. I think when you're a celebrity, it changes things up because you're gonna get people all over the board Sure. Like, uh, that are, are, are sending you messages and things like that, but like, as a normal human being walking the earth Yeah.

If consistently

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: You're like, why do only women that are well [00:23:00] below me keep hitting on me? It's like, you need to self-reflect. Right. A little bit on well. I, I, I, I,

Speaker: it's also their like, need and joy when it comes to ripping on women, like mm-hmm. They wanna say there's a loneliness epidemic, but then when women show a gen, like a genuine interest mm-hmm.

Like what he's talking about, and then, you know, these women, it's like they are so mean and nasty to them, and he's saying, you don't wanna be an asshole. It's like, well, this whole video is being an asshole, really. Right. And so it's like, it's not even that we're saying, like, you have to get with these people, but like, if the idea is that you're lonely, that you're not given opportunities, that women aren't coming up to you, but then when women come up to you, all you do is call them mid and make fun of them to their face to the boys.

Because you'd rather have male validation.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: You can't really argue both points. You can't live in both worlds because they, they, they can't coexist. Mm-hmm. Either you're [00:24:00] lonely because no one's coming up to you. Or women are coming up to you so much that it's annoying and they're mid, and it's so funny how much you get to reject women.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. And it's the, the, do you ever see like, whenever they like the whatever podcast? I fucking hate those jackasses. Have you ever seen, he always has a bunch of women on there. Uh oh.

Speaker: The guy, the, the guy who's like,

Speaker 2: yeah. Looks like he lives

Speaker: a basement dweller.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I did a video telling him to shave his beard recently.

I dunno if you saw that one. Uh, but, uh, he, uh, the, oh,

Speaker: he has a bunch of women that like, he acts superior to.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And he'll always ask them to rank themselves and whatever they rank himself. He'll yeah. Oh, if, oh, I've, when she go ahead. It's just in, there's a million different, there's like literally a hundred different clips of a online asking women to rank themselves.

And no matter what they say, he will be like, he'll, he'll be like, you think you're a nine? I

Speaker: love the one. There's one where the woman says she's a 10, and he's like, you're not a [00:25:00] 10. And she was like. Like, yeah, I am. I think I am. And

Speaker 2: I know that's what you're talking about. Yeah. That's my

Speaker: belief and it's true for me.

Mm-hmm. I don't care what you think. Mm-hmm. I don't care what your, because it's like what happens is he asks for the them to like self grade themselves or rate themselves and then he does, but he expects that his rating is like the true rating and theirs isn't. And it's like, dude, if you're gonna say you're gonna throw mine out, then why wouldn't I cast yours out?

Mm-hmm. Like it goes both ways. You're not God, you don't choose the rate. Yeah. That's your opinion. And she basically, there's no

Speaker 2: world that exists where I would think what his version of a 10 is, is any opinion that I would be wanna respect,

Speaker: I have said this so many times, but ladies. Just a, anybody fem presenting people probably, particularly just in this kind of patriarchal society, when you get to the point where you do not care what men think of you, like what?

Especially cis [00:26:00] cis men, like when you do not care how they rate you, they lose, uh, 80% of their power because most of what their power is and, and what, like, where they're, it is not really strength, but where they see their strength is in their ability to make you feel small. And most of their arguments, like drew off ELA talks about it all the time.

Their arguments are like, you're ugly, you're fat, you're this, you're that. And like once you get to the point where like, even if you, you, I believe you think that's true, guy. Like even if you think that's true, I do not give a shit what you have to say. I don't care. And, and that's where, that was the energy that girl had, which was like, I don't care what you, what you rape me as I know what I rape myself as.

Mm-hmm. Like you can see him imploding internally because he realizes like. Oh shit. Like, I have no power over this woman. She does not care what my opinion is. And like that's, it's, I know it's a little bit of a soap soapbox, but like, when you get to that point, like life changes because it is irrelevant.

It's so irrelevant, like what [00:27:00] these guys

Speaker 2: think. That's the core aspect of, of, uh, nagging. Yes. Uh, when, and that 'cause that entire shows purpose and all of these shows that do the ra ranking women and having them rank themselves publicly and everything, it's, it's, it's a public negging. Mm-hmm. Right? Because if they can show a beautiful woman that is just like a standard, like I said, uh, typical, I don't know the word I'm looking for, um, that fits our, our our, um, stereotypical societal definition of beauty.

Mm-hmm. And she's calling herself a seven, uh, like on there and, and everyone else is agreeing, oh yeah, you're a seven. You're a seven. Then that immediately hits the, the make makes you a someone that might be impression and watching this and, and, and is like trying to find a partner. You're like, oh man, I must be.

But on this weird, stupid rating system, right. I must be a four then I must be below, I must be terrible. 'cause this, this woman that I think is beautiful is a seven.

Speaker: Meanwhile, Charlie, Charlie Kirk's out here thinking he is a 10, please. Right. [00:28:00] Well, it's just like the guy there was, um, I don't know his name.

I don't care too. I never will. Uh, he would ask, and he's tall too, which makes it stupid. But the whole thing's stupid. But then especially he would say to women, do you care what people, what men's height is? And some of them would say yes. And so then he'd pull out a scale. So this is his whole bit, uh, horrendous.

Mm-hmm. Also, what the fuck are you talking about? But also whatever. Anyways, it's not the point. So that I saw that and I was horrified by it. I don't, I don't think we need to get into why that's horrifying. I obviously, it's gross. You end up finding out if, if you watch enough of, uh, the videos is, the scale is rigged.

Speaker 3: So

Speaker: he's purposefully making women think they're heavier than they are. 'cause this one girl got on and she was like tiny, very petite and very muscular. Like just, just, just a tiny, tiny person got on there and it said she weighed way more than it was possible. And even like men in the comments were like, I don't think so, man.

And so the [00:29:00] whole point was to make, so like it's rigged to make you feel like shit. You already feel like shit when someone brings out the scale. The whole point is to make people feel ashamed, but on top of that, he's going out of his way. To humiliate women. And that's the goal. And that's what's funny, supposedly.

Yeah.

Speaker 2: It, it's, it's the most obvious example of like, I'm really insecure, so instead of trying to upli make myself better, feel better, or, or, or, the only way I make myself feel better is to bring other people down as opposed to working on myself and figuring out other things, other aspects I have. 'cause the rea, and this is why I, I've said this before and I think it needs to be pushed by more people that are giving like good dating advice online, uh, to things.

'cause I'm like, I'm not a dating expert, but I do know one thing for certain is to get the fuck off dating apps. Like, like they are, you go meet people in real life. Yeah. Because the, the reality of the world is that this chronically online group and it's growing, they're sucking people into that same chronically online, uh, dating thing.

[00:30:00] Think. That all women will only date someone that is over six foot tall. Right. That all women will only be attracted to. And that this is a universal thing that, that all women are saying because they see these podcast clips where these guys select women that are, and they're usually 18, 19-year-old women, uh, that are, that are saying that they want, they'll only date someone over six to Oh, they're always young.

Yeah. It is almost always young. Or on the other side, it's someone that is genuinely like a supermodel that is, is like, you know, that is living a life, uh, of a certain thing, uh, uh, a certain type of life as opposed to looking at if you explore the real world and you have hobbies and you take classes and you meet other people, you can.

Easily, I have so many friends that are below five 10, right? That are, are in happy marriages, right. That are in long-term relationships with beautiful, lovely, intelligent, amazing, funny women, right. That, that are, that are, [00:31:00] that are that they didn't have a problem finding them. Right. That they're younger guys too.

I know. They're not just like the, like people my age. It's not like this is a brand new thing. Uh, where people are, height has been, been, some people talk about, but they, they met them in real life. They didn't go on Tinder to, to meet them.

Speaker: Well, and the other thing to your point, like just, just the, like the height conversation, like I know that's a problem I've had, I've had so many men lie to me about their height.

I couldn't care less how tall people were truly like obviously. I'm, I'm married to someone. My height, I, I have, I have dated many short kings in my day. I don't care. But like this, this just showcases kind of like the disdain for women because it's not like a conversation was had because if it was just a conversation, I think there's valid points to height.

I do think it's a preference. Um, and I can see, I understand that people's feelings can get hurt over that. Like, I, it's not like I don't have empathy. Like I think it's hard if, if you're really a short guy and [00:32:00] you think that you have to be tall to be a man and you feel like women don't wanna be like, that sucks.

I'm not saying it doesn't, but it's not a conversation that was had in that clip. It's not like they said that and he said, okay, but you judge on, you're judging on height. Mm-hmm. But what about weight? Which would've been, I would not have liked that conversation to be fair. Right. But he goes a step fur, like there's so many steps here.

He goes a step further to bring a scale out and demand should get on it.

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker: Like, it's not just like, it's not just like, oh, what about your weight? That would be bad enough. I wouldn't like that.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: But then to say, well get on the scale and then to go even further to rig the scale so they think they're heavier, which the only point is to humiliate women.

And the only way he knows that it will humiliate women is because he knows we live in this patriarchal society where women

Speaker 3: mm-hmm.

Speaker: Are, are terrified of gaining weight. Mm-hmm. Or, or being too heavy, or not being whatever, not skinny enough. So it's like this urge, I guess my point is like, this urge of men to humiliate women mm-hmm.[00:33:00]

Is so messed up. Like that's what that is for that guy. And I say, see the same things like the guy talking in his car, like the way he's talking about women, like that's humili. Mm-hmm. Like, you're so. You, you're so mid, you're so, you're so ugly. Like, the point of that is to humiliate women, to make the boys laugh.

We go to ri it's the same shit's. Mm-hmm. It's, it's, let me, let me make this girl feel humiliated. Let me ruin this moment for her. Let me, you know, take someone who's really putting themselves out there, let me be closed off. Not make eye contact. Make her feel stupid. Make her feel small. Mm-hmm. For the boys, because it makes me feel good.

Speaker 2: Because also the worst thing that can happen is that she gets, she turns them down. Right. Because then, then they're like, I'm humiliated. But like the, the reality is you're never gonna find someone that you like and you're, that you get along with. And that's going to complete you in so many ways if you don't risk that humiliation.

Right. Right. [00:34:00] That, that rejection, that that is going to rejection happens. I think that's the other aspect of like, that it is like they think. That's the worst fucking thing in the world. Well,

Speaker: that, that's it. Like rejection doesn't have to be humiliating.

Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be. It could just just be

Speaker: Yeah.

Go

Speaker 2: What it is. Well, exactly. I think we're, we're on the same page. Yeah.

Speaker: It's, it's because you've made it to be so humiliating. Mm-hmm. You've set this system up, like you've set this intense system up of like degrading, degrading people in the dating world, humiliating people in the dating world, like you set up an antagonistic system in which harm comes to somebody.

Somebody's feeling bad. Right. There's just no way to get by to get through any type of dating encounter without somebody feeling shitty and like mm-hmm. That's not the environment you want my guys, like you are setting up, you're setting up adversarial relationships. You're setting up extremely judgmental scenarios.

You're setting up humiliation.

Speaker 2: The other [00:35:00] aspect of this too is like the. Creating this persona for, for that they think women will like, I cannot, and this is me being, me, being autistic, where like, I just feel like that would be so hard to do, to create a persona. This, this whole thing because I already have, I do, I'm very aware, uh, I'm a hi heavy Masker.

I'm very aware of who I'm putting, but this is all still me, right? This is, there's nothing, no aspect of me that, that you see online that is not fully me in that moment. I feel like if I were to put on. Uh, a character.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Where I pretended I was all these things and then that somebody liked that character.

That wouldn't feel good to me. That wouldn't feel any better than, than being rejected. It's exhausting. I'm sure you, you still don't like me. Yeah. Well, you don't know me. You like this thing that I created that I thought you'd like?

Speaker: Well, I don't, I don't understand the idea of like, thinking that will make people attracted to you.

'cause I, maybe there's some pick me type of gals out there. Uh, and I mean that in the, [00:36:00] the literal sense, which is like, I will throw a woman under the bus to be picked. Right? Mm-hmm. So maybe they would like that be behavior because if one girl looks bad, then I look good in that type of mentality. Mm-hmm.

But I don't know many women that would watch a woman get up there and like really put herself out there and like be genuine and be kind and watch these guys make faces and look away and laugh at her. Like, I don't know many women that would. Find that appealing because mm-hmm. I, I, you know what I think it proves, if anything, and you talked about this before, how much of dating is for men?

Like men For men? Mm-hmm. Because like, th this is supposedly to get women, but that performance them, like yucking it up and be like, oh yeah, no, he wants, or he wants it. That's for the men. Like, girls don't wanna see, like, young ladies don't wanna see young men treating women like shit. So that is for the guys, like they're willing to throw themselves under the bus and potentially mm-hmm.

Getting with other girls for two seconds of [00:37:00] looking, quote unquote cool for the boys.

Speaker 2: And like, and the, the something I realized afterwards, there was like a sheet of like, they couldn't see each other. Like, so both groups were separated. Like, you know, if that, if that sheet wasn't there, they wouldn't be.

Oh really? Yeah. They wouldn't be, they were the only reason they were acting. Up for the boys. It's because they knew the women couldn't see them,

Speaker: but she could see them,

Speaker 2: couldn't she? No. It looks like, it looks like in that they frame it that way in the video. I found that later on. Oh, the video looks like, it's like they're just talking.

That

Speaker: makes so much more sense.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And so that's why they're behind the sheet and acting like assholes. Assholes because they know it's, it's a, it's this, they can

Speaker: be assholes without having they know if you can't

Speaker 2: see them.

Speaker: Yeah. What cowards then? They, they're assholes. Yeah. Total

Speaker 2: cowards. 'cause you know, if that sheet wasn't there, they wouldn't be doing that.

It would be in a completely different scenario in that,

Speaker: Ew, ew, that makes it so much worse. Mm-hmm. Yuck. Oh my God. I hate that Jessica. But so, so ri did not see them making those faces.

Speaker 2: Not until she saw the video, I'm assuming.

Speaker: Oh my God, [00:38:00] RI justice for RI is right. Mm-hmm. But like, there you go. It's like such.

Ugh. Yeah. Like, just stop. Like mm-hmm. Stop. You're the one on the dating show, dude. It's like, stop acting like you don't wanna be there. Clearly. You wanna find a girl. Why else would you be there? Don't, you don't need to make people feel like she, I just don't understand it. It's so common too. And like, I hate when I see like someone who is unique, like she's dressing unique.

Her hobbies are interesting and them, and like being crushed. Like I just mm-hmm. I hate that. Like, ugh, God. I mean, we know, like, I know the Mormon culture there is kind of like a cookie cutter look. They seem to like, in like how they, like the women dress. It didn't seem

Speaker 2: like these were like, full, full on. I don't know if like, there's maybe not, but like devout Mormons, like the, the way that everyone in that room was dressed seemed more college kid relaxed as opposed to, I, I don't know enough about Mormon culture to know if that's like a thing now.

Um, right. But you're, but even, even culturally,

Speaker: it's [00:39:00] like just seeing somebody who's. Who's brave enough to put themselves out there exactly as they are, like, just bums me out. Yeah. To see them be such jerks. I really, I'm very interested now because they had the sheet up, like, uh, like, oh, like the way they instinctively took advantage of the scenario.

Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Like, immediately were like, oh, cool. We can really be rude.

Speaker 2: Well, that's what I'm saying. The one guy that was being the biggest asshole of giggling and like, like whispering and everything was the one later on when the sheet was gone. I'm a big Jesus guy. I love God.

I love church. Please share your favorite. Passage with me.

Speaker: This is like the locker room. Like the more social media we have, the more we are given access to the locker room and locker room talk. Mm-hmm. And it's really frightening because like mm-hmm. You know, I grew up with the, essentially with the sheet, like you only see the side of guys that you, they want you to see.

And like it was really disheartening as I got older to [00:40:00] recognize or find out like what these guys did behind all the girls' backs and like how they talked. Like you would hear stories of how they talked about like someone they were dating and you were like, oh my God. Like that's awful. This

Speaker 2: is why the number one thing I've said before is that what I do on social media doesn't matter what guys are saying in that moment, when this shit happening, that's when the change happens.

Mm-hmm. I, one of my, it's, I'm still friends with this person 'cause he changed, he did grow I think. And part of the reason he grew was 'cause of moments like this. He was sharing something with us and I was like. We were drunk. By the way, this is like a group of guys. I know what you're talking about. I think,

Speaker: go ahead.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and he shared something with us. I don't wanna be too specific about it. 'cause uh, yeah. But he shared something. I was like, and I I was like, that's fucked up man. I was like that. Why are you doing that? That's, and he got, and he, the, the, we went back and forth for a while and then he ended up storming out of the apartment and yelling at me.

You fucking feminist, you feminist [00:41:00] bullshit, blah, blah, blah. And left. But it needed to be said. Right. Because if I didn't say it, nobody else was going to. And everybody else in the room was gonna be like, oh yeah, it was pretty cool you did that. It was like, like I said, but that being too, he, it wasn't something horrific.

It wasn't, he didn't do anything that he should go to jail for, like, anything like that. He'd be canceled for. Right. But it was enough that he was, he was being an asshole. It was, it was like these guys laughing at, at Riley, right? Like, just, you gotta, if a guy's an asshole to a woman and treating a woman, like, like shit, you need to be, have the balls.

You know, and this, I'm using that word specifically in this, to stand up to other men and be like, Hey, stop being a dick. You know, stop treating. That's not okay. I don't think that's cool.

Speaker 3: Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: I don't know if you're sharing that 'cause you thought it was cool. I want you to know, I don't think that's cool.

And, and if, and if more men were, were ha were, were like not, weren't such cowards in behind the scenes in these curtained moments, then we would [00:42:00] have a lot less of this horrific stuff happening outside of the sheets. Right. When the sheet is not, is, is dropped.

Speaker: Right. Yeah, exactly. I, I. Spend my days, like I call it out all constantly.

If, if I, mm-hmm. If anybody says something fucked up, it could be an mm-hmm. Any type of fucked, I mean, women say fucked up things too. And right across the gender, pioneer what? Or across the gender spectrum. They all, we all say crazy stuff. Mm-hmm. But like, I, I love to call people out to their face 'cause they're like, oh, you can tell they've never been challenged.

Really?

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Uh, I remember one time this was like, oh God, high school, I guess. But I remember this guy had dated my friend for a long time and then they broke up and he was like, he was clearly trying something and he was like, I, I really want you to know that, like, that whole time that I was with her, uh, I really liked you.

And [00:43:00] I was like, he was a weirdo too. I remember, uh, I remember one time they, this is a really weird story, but they were like making out all, there was a trampoline and they were like making, this was high school. They were like making out and he's like, come lay next to us. And I was like, no pass. I'll be on.

I'll be jumping over here. Anyways, he was a weirdo, but I remember going, I'm sorry. Do you think that's a positive thing? You've just told me the whole time you dated my best friend. You were interested in me. Do you think I like you more now? Do you think I'm interested? That is like the worst thing you could have said to me.

You know

Speaker 2: what

Speaker: I mean? Like that is truly Yeah.

Speaker 2: That is

Speaker: one of the grossest. But like, you could tell it was

Speaker 2: like, oh, no, I would've, if you had asked, I would've cheated.

Speaker: I know. I would've cheated. That's what he, I mean, it's like, so you lied to my friend, or you misled her, or you acted like you're more interested or you had feelings for her best friend.

Like, there is no world in which that's a positive to me. Mm-hmm. I think you're an asshole now, and I hope I never speak to you again. I, and I did say something to that effect. [00:44:00] Mm-hmm. But it's like, there's so many men that say these wild things. Mm-hmm. And like I, I catch 'em when I can. I think a lot of people catch 'em when they can.

But it is behind the sheet. It is be, it is behind closed doors. It's with people they're comfortable with. I've talked about, I've had men because I'm a lesbian, assume, like I'm cool with that and I've corrected them quickly.

Speaker 2: Oh, you like objectifying women too? That Yes, yes.

Speaker: I, I had, I, there was, I can tell you where I was because I found it so disturbing.

Mm-hmm. I was like walking with a guy from work. We were like going to lunch or something and he, um, he, he was like trying to get me to talk bad about my wife. Like it was clearly a setup. Like he was talking bad about his wife and he, it was like he was teeing me up and I ended, I was like, no, I don't really, don't have anything to say like that.

And he is like, leans into me. He's like, she's not here. Like, like, like that was stopping me. And I, it's,

Speaker 2: this is what we do.

Speaker: I know he, it was literally like, he was smiling. Did you know, [00:45:00] he's like, you can be in the, did you not know we, we can be in the club. You can be in the boys club. Like, like he was, oh, thank you, Gooda.

But I look at him, I was like, I'm aware. I still don't wanna talk about like, it's like, so, so I've had moments of that that I can like push back. Mm-hmm. But really, I agree with you, like men to men, like that's when they say the worst stuff and that's when they listen. Men don't, because there's also,

Speaker 2: oh, go ahead.

I didn't wanna cut you off.

Speaker: No, you're fine. I was just gonna say, men, those type of men do not care what a woman has to say about that behavior.

Speaker 2: I was gonna say, and that's also the, the reason, it's not like this is a confidant where you're like, oh, this is something I'm struggling with with my wife. Right.

You know, this is, oh, this is really frustrating to me and I'm sharing it with you because, you know, I'm saying it out of love. And I, and I'm, you know, that I'm not looking, not that, no, this is someone say, Hey, let's talk shit about our wives. It was

Speaker: very common. You

Speaker 2: hate your wife too. Is that how lesbians were?

That

Speaker: was, it was like at the [00:46:00] office. Like I, I, I've talked about on my other podcast, I've talked about it before, but mm-hmm. It, it would happen and I would have to like correct it every time I heard it. 'cause it was, it, it opened my eyes to what goes on because mm-hmm. I wasn't privy to those conversations.

No one was having those conversations around me, but I guess they got confused. Maybe I like, oh, well, she, she's with women, so she talk shit on women, clearly. Mm-hmm. But they, like, the guys would talk shit on their wives, like as a group, like the heads of the company. You'd hear them, or like, like, you know, there's a lot of edit.

I worked at a production company. Mm-hmm. So there's a lot of editors, you know, and like, you're just,

Speaker 2: I, I'm just imagining that him responding and like, oh, is your wife the man?

Speaker: Oh, I should talk to her about

Speaker 2: you. Oh, that She's the one. Okay. Oh, oh. So she, that's good to know. Oh, okay. You are the, so she

Speaker: wears the pants.

Speaker 2: They can, because I've seen conversations where they can't fathom Uhuh.

Speaker: No.

Speaker 2: And that relationships can function outside of this gender dynamic. Dynamic.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. Well, it's so funny too because I'm asked actually, [00:47:00] uh, not like, uh, not looking, uh, she, you know, she has shorter hair and she has a little more masculine style than I do.

But I am definitely more masculine personality wise. And so people are like, I don't know what to do with this. Um, I told you, I get along with guys great when they're not being assholes. Um, and so, yeah, it was just, it was really interesting to, I don't

Speaker 2: believe you,

Speaker: what's the name of this podcast then? Um, but yeah, it's like, uh, seeing, seeing behind the curtain, literal like, you know, this as the saying goes, but, uh, really understanding the way that men talk about women when they're not around.

And, and again, I think we're just because of social media. We literally are in the locker room. We're given access, and now we are seeing these conversations and it's gross. And this again, like, this is what, like, there's so many times you're like, whoa, online, not women, but you know, there's the loneliness epidemic.

But then you see shit like this and you're like, yeah, women can see [00:48:00] you. Women saw that video. Women see these things. Women see your posts. Like mm-hmm. Just go through someone's social and you'll know a lot about them.

Speaker 3: You

Speaker: know, what do they like? Who do they follow? All of this is available. So it's like, yeah, if you, if you don't like women and you make it clear you don't like women and you like videos, like the one we discussed where the guy's like, oh, don't you hate how hugs are always talking to us?

Like mm-hmm. Yeah. Women don't like that.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. That's not an attractive quality. You don't want that showing up. Uh, at some point you're like, what, what's this about? He is, oh, what's this? Not you, baby, you're, you're at least a seven. You're, I said yes to you. 'cause you're not one of Theos I was talking about you're only mid with your makeup off.

Speaker: So

Speaker 2: that's a whole nother podcast episode there. Uh, can I share, so speaking of like behind the scenes and I, I, I. We genuinely do try to have conversations with these guys that [00:49:00] attack me. And it's become a fun little pastime for me. These

Speaker: guys who attacked me,

Speaker 2: well, they come, they'll DM me like these, like they'll come after me.

Like what I'm saying. They're like, I, you're, you're, you don't understand, blah, blah, blah. Uh, and one of my favorite, I've done it, I've about three or four times now, uh, where somebody will say something like, you don't understand women. You're, you're wrong. Women will only date somebody that, that is like in the, the 1% of guys that are over six feet tall and make this money, blah, blah, blah.

And I, and I now I like responded. I was like, thank you so much for thinking I'm I so highly of me. And they're like, what? I was like, you just said, I was in the 1% of men. And they're like, whoa. And it's, and you could always tell a coach that they're like, no, no. You're, and they try something back and it disarms them so bad that it's, I've been able to have like really good conversations with them, um, after that.

But it's, it's, I always, it, that's my favorite little thing is like, to pretend like they're complimenting me.

Speaker 4: Stop,

Speaker 2: stop it. [00:50:00] I'm, I'm here. I I'm blushing. I can see what you're writing. I am flushing right now. Wow. You think so highly. Why are you yelling at me? You clearly think I am the alpha and that you've just said I am part of the 1% of all men.

Like that's, wow. Thank you. You

Speaker: are six five. Jessica. I appreciate

Speaker 2: that. I make good money. I'm six five. If I were, if I was, I'm amazing. I'm, God, what am I doing? I need to start, I need to start a dating service right there about. Uh, yeah,

Speaker: I, again, like, I also think a lot of the talking points are wild things people say when they're like being filmed, you know, when they're being questioned on the street or like their ideal situation.

You know, ideally I would like a really tall person. Like so many of these things are not like the reality for most people. Right. Uh, of course when you're being interviewed on the street, people say crazy stuff about what they want and it's like, the reality is, [00:51:00] I probably most, I would say most of my friends, their partners are not like crazy to like, that's not, I don't know many people that are that strict about what they're looking for.

I, again, I think we talked about this last week. Mm-hmm. I feel like it's just an excuse to hate on women while simultaneously, uh, excusing not having women. It's like, what? And

Speaker 2: not, and excusing not doing any of the. The work on yourself. Right, exactly. That women say that they are actually interested in,

Speaker: well, I'm not six five, so it doesn't matter.

Mm-hmm. Like, and

Speaker 2: the thing is that every, everyone's allowed to have a, a unrealistic standard for who they want to be with. Go off. The only, the only person they're punishing by not achieving that is themselves. Right? Yeah. Oh, if a woman only wants this 0.01% of men, then, then if that what? Yeah, if her, that's fine.

That's just, if her, if she's decided that the only type of man that's gonna make her life better is [00:52:00] then this small percentage, then great. Then fine. That's fantastic. Say who cares?

Speaker: You can do that as a guy too. That gets into consent too. 'cause like I do think that's part of it. It's like men. Because the solution is like, oh, to your point, you can have high standard, and that's not you.

Women just don't want mm-hmm. That woman doesn't want you and Right. Find one that does, but, and she can do that even if she never finds that guy. That's her. Right. And that's her preference and that's fine. Mm-hmm. But it's like one, it's like they, it's almost like they don't like the consent aspect, which she should have to mm-hmm.

Speaker 4: I

Speaker: her her standard's done. That's exactly, yeah. And it's like her, because

Speaker 2: she's, she's the one I want and that's all that matters.

Speaker: It's like, sir, that's the thing, is like she could want an eight foot tall alien. Maybe she won't get it, but that's her. Like, it's like they want, they don't like that they're getting a no.

Mm-hmm. Even if it's only perceived, even if it's only like ideologically. Mm-hmm. I don't like that some woman out there is gonna reject me. Potentially. [00:53:00] Maybe even though she, they wouldn't have access to her in the first place because she wouldn't be interested. But it's like the consent thing again, as, as is always their problem.

I want access to you and I should have your consent.

Speaker 2: The, the whole point is that everyone has a type, right? Sure. Everyone has certain things that they're, uh, they're into, it's like the, it it, it would be the same thing as them getting mad at you because what you want is a woman. And they do. And they do and Yeah, I know, and that's, and that's the exact same.

They don't, they don't see that. I think people think that's a different conversation, but that, that's the same type of anger there, uh, as like, well, but I want you.

Speaker: Yeah, but you should be with me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you should be with me though. I could change that. Yeah.

Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah, sure. Have you ever,

Speaker 2: have you ever tried?

Yeah, I,

Speaker 4: yeah. How did I get here? How do you think I got here, Greg?

Speaker 2: I really do genuinely believe that any single man that is fully invested in it being a choice is gay. I don't know if that's [00:54:00] controversial to say, because like, that means they've, they're like, no, no, I am consciously every day choosing this or buy or, or like buy or poli.

Yeah, pansexual. Like, uh, that, uh, because like if you, if you truly believe that there's no such thing as a choice that you are fully biologically attracted to one type of person, then you, then it would be very easy to understand why a woman would be attracted to a woman. But if you're like, no, no, I am making the choice, you know how hard it is for me.

Speaker: Every day I have to look at men every day. All I'm thinking

Speaker 2: about is dicks.

Speaker: I get outta my head. I choose to not get on Grindr today. I did yesterday, every

Speaker 2: single day. So I know for a fact you have to be doing the same thing.

Speaker: Yeah. Well, spoiler. No, but I also, I, it's so

Speaker 2: controversial to say no. I like,

Speaker: I mean, it's a choice or it's not.

That's a fact. Either it is or it isn't. So if it's not a choice for you, it's not a choice for me. If you're saying it's a choice for me, is it a [00:55:00] choice for you? There's, there's something else

Speaker 2: going on, Nikki. There's a,

Speaker: we're gonna dig deep one of these days. Yeah. I also wanna be clear, like I, preferences is fine.

Like we said, you can have whatever preference you want. What is wrong with all of these videos is humiliation, degradation. Right. Judgment. And that's 'cause somebody's not your preference. Mm-hmm. That's the difference. Mm-hmm. These guys don't just have preferences. They have preferences and then they degrade women who aren't said preference.

Mm-hmm. They, they basically humiliate anyone. Who's not, who's not to their standard, but also in order to get them to be their standard, like they want, they want to, I would, I would say they, they, they would want every woman to look like they want them to look. I think that's true, but I also think they want to weaponize that, that degradation, they wanna weaponize that ne neg, neg negging negation, I guess.

Um, but they wanna weaponize it [00:56:00] because they know if I can make you feel like shit, right, I might have a chance at you. If I can make you self-conscious and you, and you are so unsure and unsteady about who you are, and if you're good enough for me, then you won't even have time to worry about if I'm good enough for you.

I may not have anything to bring to the table, but I can make you feel like you didn't bring enough.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: And I think that's a big part of this whole play and like

Speaker 2: as if society is not already doing that to women far more than men about like, making them feel terrible about every aspect of

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Their, their identity and who they are and they're not doing enough. It's the whole system. It's

Speaker: like, 'cause you have mm-hmm. Again, I am dead serious. Like the system fucking starts to fail when you don't give a shit about male validation. Mm-hmm. And I'm not saying like, you don't care, like you can, like mm-hmm.

Like if someone compliments you and like you can, like you're, you know, men's approval. But I, what I'm saying is if you don't live or die by [00:57:00] validation, like the whole system. Doesn't work as well because mm-hmm. It, it depends on that, like, everything depends on women needing the validation of men and like needing to feel like they're good enough and needing approval because like, you know, you've seen comment section, it's like my comment section.

Um, a lot of times what men come for is. Like your looks, uh, with me, normally they claim I'm don't have a man, which you know, is factually true. They're right there not how they think, but it's like, um, they don't come from my looks as much as they, they just are like, well, you're alone.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. And

Speaker: I'm like, well, that's not true.

But there is no man. So you got me there. Uh, Chad. 69. 69. You got me there. But you know, it, it's just this like that is what they attack you on. Drew talks about it like they actually don't have good talking points. Mm-hmm. So if them trying to come at your looks or whatever, whatever [00:58:00] they deem they can come at you for is not effective.

They really do lose power in arguments because that's what they bring to the table. Because you can say, I don't care about your opinion, so let's talk about the argument. Mm-hmm. They can, they, those dudes cannot deal. They cannot, if it comes to facts, they're like, you're ugly. Like, I don't care that you, I, I agree.

You think I'm ugly. Great. And let's move forward. And they're like, no, no. You're supposed to cry now. You're supposed to run. They said you

Speaker 2: were ugly. I win, I win. You're ugly. Isn't that what we're talking about? No, I don't. No, we were talking about

Speaker: politics.

Speaker 2: Yeah. This has nothing to do with what's going on.

Oh, God. But that's, that's why I've said before, I've said this on the show before, like that's another thing I say in DMSO that like, what specifically did I say that made that you think is, is so degrading toward men or toward you specifically? Yeah. Time code. What's not you? I mean, I don't do those things.

All right, then that video wasn't about you. Right. Then why are you so upset? I think it, [00:59:00] why are you here? Made you do maybe, do you want to do those things? Are you upset that I told you just your friend? You can't, you shouldn't do those things. Yeah. Are you seeing your father in my videos? Like that could, there could be lots of things.

Well, I'm seeing my, my buddies do that though. Like, well, your buddies are assholes then. I, I, I don't know how to tell you this. Show them my videos. Tell, let them tell me what they have an issue with and then let me talk to 'em. Yeah.

Speaker: That's the thing is I, I will get people, a lot of men fighting me on things, and it only proves that they're the man I'm talking about.

Right. Because secure men, like I have so many guy friends, they have no problem with my videos. They think that, like, they laugh at them just because like other guys will laugh at guys being assholes. Mm-hmm. Like, they, like, they'll be like, this dude's, this dude's a tool. Like they, this guy sucks. They can acknowledge it just like anybody else can.

It's a you problem. If you can't hear about a-hole men without feeling attacked, then perhaps you embody [01:00:00] some element of the guys I'm talking about or love some guy, a guy that I'm talking about. Mm-hmm. Like you are, you are relating and empathizing with this, this type of guy.

Speaker 2: Well, I made a post the other day that talked about like the, the videos that I get, the most angry comments from men.

Are the ones where I'm talking about how misogyny and toxic masculinity harms men. Like, it's not like I, I get obviously a, a fair amount in all my, all my videos talking about like the way it harms women too. But the ones where I'm talking about, Hey, yeah, this is really fucking up men's mental health and this is causing men to be single and this is cause this is harming dudes.

Yeah. And they're like, Hey, fuck you man. Don't you try and help us. Like, it's the weirdest thing. I'm like, Hey, this guys, this is, this is, I'm not, this is me saying that this is, this is why one of the major underlying premises behind why I talk about these things is because yeah. Are the, I think the primary.

Uh, overt [01:01:00] harm is done to women because that's kind of what the system is set up to do, is oppress women, um, for the sake of men, but it also is responsible for men committing suicide, like successfully committing suicide more often. It's successful for the, the reason why all these sorts of men may not be able to express their feelings.

Oh, yeah. And being depressed and all these other sorts of harmful things that happen to men, they're like, no, no result. They're, oh, that's not true. You hate men. You hate me.

Speaker: You know what it mean? Don't you hate me? It's that you, the answer is in their, on their court and the ball's in their court to solve the problem.

And I don't think they, because like if I say something, there's so many times they'll come back and be like, well, what about me? And what about when women do men? I was like, I have never said women don't. Do, I try and include the whole gender spectrum to be honest, but, um. Yeah. It's like, they'll be like, well, you don't care about, and I, and they'll politely be like, I do.

That's not a video. Mm-hmm. Hey, guess what? You have access to the TikTok if you'd like to make a video about [01:02:00] your experience. I am not a man. I don't have that experience to express. If you would

Speaker 2: like to see a video of people trashing women, let me introduce you to the internet. The, because there are a lot of 'em.

You

Speaker: know what, go ahead and just put woman in the search. Yeah. You'll find it and just see what

Speaker 2: comes up. I guarantee you, within a 10 seconds you're gonna find somebody trashing women. You'll find a friend in some way or another,

Speaker: but it's just, but then, you know, it's like, but if you, you, you need to include men.

But if you include men, then you shouldn't include men that there, it's just, I really do think it's, I want men to be harmed or not. No one, I I, I want acknowledgement that men are also harmed in the system, which they mm-hmm. Absolutely. Are. I, I would hope no one's arguing. Men aren't also harmed on some level.

Mm-hmm. Um. But also, I don't want you to say it's men's fault. I want it to be women's fault that men are harmed. Mm-hmm. And then that's where we're at in impasse. I think.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: They're like, no, you, but I, I'm [01:03:00] hurting, but also not

Speaker 4: from me.

Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. There is a, there, there is a growing number of men I've seen being willing to talk about this.

'cause it, for a while there it was like, there was like four of us that were, and, and I will say it is growing and I'm happy about that. Um, but I'm also, it also terrifies me because I've seen how many guys have we seen in this space that are, it turns out they're just using it. To get like, access to women.

Speaker: Oh, well, even if they don't start with that intention, which I think some absolutely do, right? But then they start getting attention and they're like, oh, oh, wait, here, wait, am I an alpha?

Speaker 2: Uh uh. And so it's like I'm always, because I got added into a group chat recently on Instagram of a bunch of men that are making this work, and I haven't heard of half of 'em.

Uh, and I'm like, I'm so hesitant. I'm like, I need, before I follow any of you, please don't

Speaker: be mad.

Speaker 2: I just, I need to like, spend time with your content and interact with you. Like there's, there's probably three or four guys that I like. [01:04:00] Sizer, professor Neil, like people that I've talked to in real life. You have to talk to them.

That I've interacted. Yeah.

Speaker: I've, I've been that I know for

Speaker 2: certain,

Speaker: I've been fooled before by multiple genders that people were not who I thought they were. You have to recognize there will be people who have good points.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: That may not be the best people. Like where you'll, you'll like, be like, but they said this cool thing, or they said this good thing I'm, it's like, okay.

Mm-hmm. But as a whole, and that's a problem too, is like you, you may only see one viral video of someone. Mm-hmm. So you may only know them from one thing and it's like, it's very hard to get a full grasp of people.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: But I would just say, and even in, just to the people listening, like even in our spaces where, you know, it's seemingly people trying to help or, or do better or encourage growth in others, whatever.

Any, any space where people get a huge, a lot of popularity and fandoms and commenters, like anytime someone's getting that level of [01:05:00] attention, you run the risk of them. Mm-hmm. Maybe even if they started Okay. Like becoming somewhat performative because performative, you know what it reminds me of? That's, I didn't finish that thought.

Performative, um. Performative interactions and posts really do well. Like, have you seen the guy, I don't know what he's European in some ways. He's like, she's not crazy. You've just broken her heart. Oh yeah. So many times. Stop. You're kidding her. She's tired. I'm like, bro, I probably, my wife's working from home.

I probably shouldn't scream.

Speaker 2: Yeah,

Speaker: but

Speaker 2: I know exactly what you're, that

Speaker: that is the far end of per performing, right? Performative.

Speaker 2: Okay. It's like first, first you didn't say any words I disagree with. Why do I hate you?

Speaker: Who is this for? Are you maybe trying to get some lady friends? Yeah, because it's two men, but it's clearly not.

Men watching,

Speaker 2: right? [01:06:00] Hmm. And obviously, and that's what the, the thing that's important, and I've, I've open, open about this, is like, you should have doubts in including me. You should have doubts about why am I in this space when it doesn't overtly benefit me, right. To be in this space? And now I would argue that I think it, this harms that's obviously part of my platform is that it absolutely benefits me to right overthrow these misogynistic structures that are out there.

Um, however, so I, it is still self-serving if you look at it in a different, it's just not self-serving In the typical, I'm looking to get laid, uh, you know, by a random woman on the internet in way, can't not

Speaker: imagine,

Speaker 2: would not happen. So,

Speaker: uh, that's, that's all she wrote I think. There we go. Justice for ri.

Justice for Ri Ri. If you're listening, I will be your friend. I know you're looking for dating, but we all think you're very cool and we really like you.

Speaker 2: The characteristics of like someone that's adventurous and likes going and doing things and having fun. [01:07:00] Like I, why is that cringey? I don't get that.

That's absolutely what I was, what my, when I met my wife, I was like, she, like, she does cool things. That's great. I,

Speaker: I honestly think people are so terrified of being cringe. Like it's, it, I mean the, the, it's like labeled now, right? Mm-hmm. So, uh, they're so terrified of it that they, like, they go out of their way to judge others to show they're not cringe.

Mm-hmm. Which unfortunately leads to this crazy environment where then everybody's thinking, everything's cringe. Mm-hmm. Just praying that no one thinks they are. Like, that's what I see so much of. Uh, and it's really sad because I feel like there's so many unique people with unique interests that. You know, are seen as cringe, like a, any loving anything is cringe.

You know what I mean? Right. Not, not actually, but the way that they talk about it. Mm-hmm. And so like, be cringe. Truly do what you love. Who cares? Like, I think all this, who cares what other people think? Who cares about these boys behind the sheets like. That sounds so creepy, but like, yeah, just [01:08:00] be your authentic self.

Then you can find someone who's authentically paired for you, or at least authentic friends, like that's, mm-hmm. That's what matters.

Speaker 2: It's, I mean, it's, it's part of the benefit of me having such a poor ability to hide who I am, is that I, I, when I was dating someone, they knew who they were. Same. They knew who they were getting.

Yep. Right. There was no surprises down the line. My wife cannot say that. The man, I am not 43. There's not really any surprises since the man she met when I was in my twenties.

Speaker: You know what, Jessica, I will say, the men that I dated early on did get quite as surprise later in life about me. Yeah.

Speaker 2: I guess, but, but perfect.

You were not, you didn't realize it, but you were not living your authentic self at that

Speaker: point. No. I, oh, right. I was just like, this is so hard. Why is it so much work?

Speaker 2: Why is this so gross?

Speaker: You know what, Jessica, that's one in the category of your theory, which is that you're, it's when people think it's a choice, it's because I was had to choose real hard.

Mm-hmm. To doing

Speaker 2: it. [01:09:00] You're like, I guess, I mean, the other thing sounds great. Oh God, why is this so much work to be straight? Yeah. Everyone must hate this. Right? It's just, I

Speaker: genuinely thought that I literally can pinpoint conversations in moments that I was like, oh, everybody's hates it. I get it, I'm fine.

Speaker 3: Yeah. But

Speaker: here we are now authentically myself and that's how I paired with my wife. 'cause there

Speaker 3: you go.

Speaker: You gotta know who you are to find who's, not only do you need to know who you are, but your partner needs to know who you are too. If you're gonna find somebody that's gonna match you

Speaker 2: so you don't shock them with a primal play video.

Speaker: Don't you say shock in reference to the primal play. You're sick. You're sick. On that note, we have to go 'cause I have to go throw up and scream. But thank you for joining us. As you know, you might wanna watch on YouTube so you can see Jessica's really great hand gestures this episode. Ooh. And the facial expressions of these guys because it really is something [01:10:00] can canceled.

Um, and then we have our socials, which will be underneath this episode. Mm-hmm. Other than that, we will see you next week. Bye. See you on

Speaker 2: the flippity flap. Bye. Love you.