1 00:00:00,420 --> 00:00:03,150 Maisie: Page 94, the Priva Eye Podcast. 2 00:00:03,663 --> 00:00:06,123 Andy: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Page 94. 3 00:00:06,123 --> 00:00:08,853 My name's Andrew Hunter Murray, and I'm here in the Private Eye office 4 00:00:08,853 --> 00:00:10,683 with Helen Lewis and Adam MacQueen. 5 00:00:10,992 --> 00:00:14,202 This is your 'welcome' episode to Page 94. 6 00:00:14,382 --> 00:00:20,352 That's right after 150 episodes, we have decided to, record a show explaining 7 00:00:20,352 --> 00:00:23,842 basically what the podcast is, we're gonna be hearing little selected cuts. 8 00:00:23,842 --> 00:00:26,002 We're gonna be finding out what this private eye magazine we 9 00:00:26,002 --> 00:00:27,322 keep talking about actually is. 10 00:00:27,605 --> 00:00:30,005 As the summer holidays end and we all get back to school, we need 11 00:00:30,005 --> 00:00:31,445 some good reading to do, basically. 12 00:00:31,595 --> 00:00:33,035 And that's what Private Eye provides. 13 00:00:33,515 --> 00:00:33,995 um, 14 00:00:34,022 --> 00:00:37,712 Adam: way like when American comedies just do a lazy clip show, 'cause it's 15 00:00:37,712 --> 00:00:38,762 summer and everyone's on holiday. 16 00:00:38,762 --> 00:00:39,812 It's not that, definitely not. 17 00:00:39,858 --> 00:00:40,925 Andy: it's absolutely not 18 00:00:41,109 --> 00:00:43,809 Helen: Can I ask you, the obvious question about why it's called 19 00:00:43,809 --> 00:00:47,229 Page 94, which is why isn't it just called the Private I Podcast? 20 00:00:47,229 --> 00:00:48,890 Why was that tossed out so early? 21 00:00:48,940 --> 00:00:52,433 Andy: Because in Private Eye Magazine that all the jokes, no, not all of 22 00:00:52,438 --> 00:00:56,558 the jokes, but a good few of them, each issue end with continued page 94. 23 00:00:56,628 --> 00:01:00,168 Adam: but actually it was just a very easy way of, finishing off a joke when 24 00:01:00,168 --> 00:01:01,518 you don't really have a punchline for it. 25 00:01:02,088 --> 00:01:03,528 and it started way, way back. 26 00:01:03,558 --> 00:01:07,938 I can remember, because, I wrote the, 50th anniversary history of the magazine 27 00:01:07,938 --> 00:01:10,908 turned up all sorts of correspondence, one of which was the original letter 28 00:01:10,908 --> 00:01:14,238 from Richard Ingram's, who was then the editor inviting, young Whippersnapper 29 00:01:14,238 --> 00:01:15,768 Ian Hislop to start contributing. 30 00:01:16,038 --> 00:01:18,558 And one of the bits of advice he gave was like, if you think the 31 00:01:18,558 --> 00:01:21,168 jokes are going too long, just put, continue, page 94, and that's fine. 32 00:01:22,363 --> 00:01:23,623 It's always been a part of it. 33 00:01:23,803 --> 00:01:27,339 Andy: So second question, Adam, why is Private Eye called Private Eye? 34 00:01:27,339 --> 00:01:30,173 Adam: Similar reasons, slightly lost, lost to history. 35 00:01:30,173 --> 00:01:32,123 There were a lot of names, considered for it. 36 00:01:32,123 --> 00:01:34,913 So Private Eye has been going since October, 1961. 37 00:01:35,303 --> 00:01:38,178 it was always going to be fortnightly, because at that point they didn't 38 00:01:38,178 --> 00:01:41,593 think, the, founders of it who were, some guys called, Christopher Booker, 39 00:01:41,623 --> 00:01:44,486 Willie Rushton and Richard Ingram's, didn't think they would make enough. 40 00:01:44,726 --> 00:01:46,376 Money off it to be able to make a living out of it. 41 00:01:46,376 --> 00:01:48,506 So they had to proper jobs in, in, in one of the two weeks. 42 00:01:48,506 --> 00:01:49,976 And basically that is how it's continued. 43 00:01:50,246 --> 00:01:52,826 we do one week off and then we all go off and do other things 44 00:01:52,826 --> 00:01:54,506 in, in, in the rest of the time. 45 00:01:54,656 --> 00:01:57,656 So that put pay to one of the ideas, for a title which they came up with, 46 00:01:57,656 --> 00:02:01,406 which was the flesh is weekly, so spirit is willing, but the flesh is weekly. 47 00:02:01,406 --> 00:02:02,516 It's a slightly weak pun. 48 00:02:02,516 --> 00:02:05,876 And it didn't work 'cause it was fortnightly anyway, the British letter 49 00:02:05,876 --> 00:02:07,766 that was considered the Yellow press. 50 00:02:08,326 --> 00:02:12,526 which was partly 'cause the yellow press was an old, very old, early 20th century 51 00:02:12,526 --> 00:02:16,186 phrase for kind of like tabloidy trashy journalism, but also mostly because the 52 00:02:16,186 --> 00:02:20,513 first business manager, Peter Osborne had, ordered a load of yellow paper 53 00:02:20,723 --> 00:02:21,683 and it was gonna be printed on that. 54 00:02:21,688 --> 00:02:23,483 So it was a very basic idea for that. 55 00:02:23,977 --> 00:02:25,777 And then of course it's been going for 64 years now. 56 00:02:25,987 --> 00:02:30,757 nearly 40 of them under the, leadership of Ian Hislop who took over as editor as 57 00:02:30,757 --> 00:02:35,557 a, an incredibly young age of, I think 26, in 1986 on the 25th anniversary. 58 00:02:35,954 --> 00:02:38,414 Andy: So what we're gonna do at this point in the episode is we're gonna play 59 00:02:38,414 --> 00:02:42,314 in some of those clips of old episodes that you can discover for yourself, 60 00:02:42,314 --> 00:02:46,664 but that we wanted to bring right back to the topsoil, to the surface. 61 00:02:47,174 --> 00:02:51,554 Adam, this is one which features you, it is you and Maisie talking about the 62 00:02:51,554 --> 00:02:57,524 eyes, famous fortnightly lunches, and what sort of shenanigans go on at them. 63 00:02:57,723 --> 00:02:58,721 Adam, here's you. 64 00:02:58,931 --> 00:03:03,101 Adam: I asked Richard Ingrams, who was the editor before in Hislop, what the 65 00:03:03,101 --> 00:03:06,851 thinking was behind starting up the real lunches, and what he said, we didn't 66 00:03:06,851 --> 00:03:10,271 know anyone and we didn't know anything, and it was a way of getting people along 67 00:03:10,271 --> 00:03:12,221 just to talk to them and tell them stuff. 68 00:03:12,401 --> 00:03:15,881 And people have this weird idea that journalism happens by a sort of process 69 00:03:15,881 --> 00:03:20,076 of osmosis that you just learn things and plug them from the air and put them in. 70 00:03:20,076 --> 00:03:20,796 But of course you don't. 71 00:03:21,156 --> 00:03:25,026 you, do need insidery type people to come along and, and tell you stuff. 72 00:03:25,026 --> 00:03:28,086 And it's not quite a case of kind of official secrets being swapped 73 00:03:28,086 --> 00:03:29,106 over the cheeseboard or anything. 74 00:03:29,106 --> 00:03:34,056 It's really a case of, building up a kind of network of people, who might 75 00:03:34,056 --> 00:03:37,716 not necessarily, come along with five perfectly formed stories for you, but 76 00:03:37,716 --> 00:03:41,196 might know a bit of gossip from within the BBC or the House of Commons or 77 00:03:41,196 --> 00:03:43,656 the Labor Party or wherever people. 78 00:03:44,361 --> 00:03:45,951 Turn out and they're, a bit nervous sometimes. 79 00:03:46,191 --> 00:03:48,231 And I say to, what's the purpose of these lunches? 80 00:03:48,891 --> 00:03:51,801 And and he says, alright, it's not a networking opportunity or anything. 81 00:03:51,981 --> 00:03:53,181 It's not anything really terrifying. 82 00:03:53,181 --> 00:03:55,881 Basically, we are gonna get you drunk and you are gonna tell us stuff and 83 00:03:55,881 --> 00:03:56,841 we're gonna put it in the magazine. 84 00:03:57,831 --> 00:04:00,591 at which point they, they look even more nervous and you've 85 00:04:00,591 --> 00:04:01,561 got them exactly where you want 86 00:04:02,241 --> 00:04:02,331 Andy: them. 87 00:04:02,331 --> 00:04:06,051 It's an essential journalist activity for the magazine is what we're saying. 88 00:04:06,281 --> 00:04:08,981 Adam: Eating lunch and drinking enormous amounts of booze is an 89 00:04:08,981 --> 00:04:11,891 essential journalistic activity for any magazine or newspaper. 90 00:04:11,891 --> 00:04:12,041 I can't 91 00:04:12,041 --> 00:04:14,471 Andy: think of many other places which do it quite as religiously. 92 00:04:14,561 --> 00:04:17,021 Adam: Newspapers do tend to do lunches, but they tend to be for 93 00:04:17,021 --> 00:04:18,251 a sort of select crowd of people. 94 00:04:18,401 --> 00:04:22,336 famously it was a an A Mirror newspaper lunch that, Piers Morgan, 95 00:04:22,606 --> 00:04:26,891 invited the eclectic guest list of Orica Johnson and Jeremy Paxman, 96 00:04:26,921 --> 00:04:28,691 and as recalled by Jeremy Paxman. 97 00:04:29,291 --> 00:04:31,301 at the Levison inquiry, you can go and look up the transcripts. 98 00:04:31,571 --> 00:04:36,551 He told the boss of Vodafone that the security measures on his network were 99 00:04:36,551 --> 00:04:39,791 not good enough, and it was very easy for people to hack into, mobile phones, 100 00:04:40,271 --> 00:04:42,971 which is curious because it turned out later on he didn't actually know that. 101 00:04:43,366 --> 00:04:45,526 Andy: The person charged with booking the right mix of guests 102 00:04:45,526 --> 00:04:46,756 for these boozy affairs is 103 00:04:46,756 --> 00:04:48,076 the, is Maisie Glasebrook. 104 00:04:48,076 --> 00:04:49,066 And as you'll 105 00:04:49,066 --> 00:04:52,636 Andy: hear the phrase, boozy affairs can have more than one meaning. 106 00:04:53,776 --> 00:04:55,396 Maisie: it's a difficult balance. 107 00:04:56,116 --> 00:04:59,086 you wanna make sure that you don't get too many people from the same newspaper 108 00:04:59,086 --> 00:05:02,146 for one thing, which has happened before when it turns out that all, 109 00:05:02,146 --> 00:05:03,886 12 guests come from the same paper. 110 00:05:05,026 --> 00:05:09,166 Hillary, who used to organize the lunches before me and did a very, good job, she 111 00:05:09,166 --> 00:05:10,816 used to say you needed to have a lawyer. 112 00:05:11,221 --> 00:05:15,481 You need to have an actor, you need to have a comedian, I think 113 00:05:15,481 --> 00:05:18,421 she used to say, and obviously the balance between men and women. 114 00:05:18,421 --> 00:05:19,531 You want to try and get that? 115 00:05:19,981 --> 00:05:20,911 I'm always pretty paranoid. 116 00:05:20,941 --> 00:05:23,461 I'm gonna invite two people who've either had an affair with each other and it's 117 00:05:23,461 --> 00:05:26,251 ended very badly, or who hate each other. 118 00:05:26,341 --> 00:05:29,731 Andy: You surely can't be expected to know who hates everyone else in journalism, 119 00:05:29,731 --> 00:05:31,381 which is such a massive list of people. 120 00:05:31,576 --> 00:05:31,696 I 121 00:05:31,696 --> 00:05:31,776 Maisie: know. 122 00:05:31,776 --> 00:05:33,571 I know that's true. 123 00:05:33,571 --> 00:05:36,961 I can't put all the blame on myself, but sooner or later it's gonna happen. 124 00:05:37,381 --> 00:05:40,176 There's gonna be some kind of terrible scene and a punch out. 125 00:05:40,816 --> 00:05:43,756 Andy: Is your own basically to stop there being a punch up at a private eye lunch? 126 00:05:44,476 --> 00:05:45,586 Maisie: a punch up would be pretty good. 127 00:05:45,736 --> 00:05:47,866 I think Ian would call that a successful lunch probably. 128 00:05:49,066 --> 00:05:53,896 Adam: actually we were very proud because last year, after 40 something 129 00:05:53,896 --> 00:05:56,146 years of lunches, we had our first shag. 130 00:05:56,881 --> 00:05:57,511 That we know of. 131 00:05:58,141 --> 00:06:01,351 Maisie: I got a call, so I organized the lunch and it all seemed to go fine 132 00:06:01,351 --> 00:06:03,931 and everyone came back and said they'd had a great time and I was very happy. 133 00:06:04,141 --> 00:06:07,471 And then, the next day I got a call from the person who we deal 134 00:06:07,471 --> 00:06:10,111 with at the restaurant where the lunches held, and she said that she 135 00:06:10,111 --> 00:06:12,871 just needed to flag up something that had happened for my attention. 136 00:06:13,346 --> 00:06:15,446 And I obviously started panicking and it something had gone 137 00:06:15,446 --> 00:06:17,726 seriously wrong and she said, no. 138 00:06:17,726 --> 00:06:20,156 I just think it's good that you know that this is what happened. 139 00:06:20,546 --> 00:06:25,886 Two of your guests were discovered after the lunch in the toilet together, and 140 00:06:25,886 --> 00:06:29,606 I then burst out laughing so loud and ran up the stairs to tell everybody I 141 00:06:29,606 --> 00:06:34,136 could think of, burst into Ian's stroke meeting, told everyone, and Ian said it 142 00:06:34,136 --> 00:06:35,516 was the best lunch that had ever happened. 143 00:06:35,606 --> 00:06:35,756 There we 144 00:06:36,221 --> 00:06:36,261 Sarah: go. 145 00:06:37,106 --> 00:06:39,476 Maisie: And better than that, they were discovered in the toilet and 146 00:06:39,476 --> 00:06:40,916 then thrown out from the toilet. 147 00:06:40,976 --> 00:06:43,316 And then half an hour later, they were discovered in there 148 00:06:43,316 --> 00:06:45,476 again and thrown out again. 149 00:06:45,656 --> 00:06:47,276 Andy: Clearly the message hadn't got through the first time. 150 00:06:47,866 --> 00:06:51,026 Maisie: no, Through the waves of alcohol or love, obviously 151 00:06:52,196 --> 00:06:54,506 Andy: Now, that makes the eye lunches sound very Debo. 152 00:06:54,716 --> 00:06:56,156 We'd like to correct that impression. 153 00:06:56,156 --> 00:06:57,506 It is not all like that. 154 00:06:57,506 --> 00:06:59,276 It is not all Ugandan discussions. 155 00:06:59,606 --> 00:07:02,906 over the years we have had some extremely professional politicians 156 00:07:02,906 --> 00:07:04,436 and some very serious stories. 157 00:07:04,476 --> 00:07:05,886 That have come out of the lunches. 158 00:07:05,976 --> 00:07:09,156 Adam: Politicians are really interesting actually, 'cause sometimes you'll get 159 00:07:09,156 --> 00:07:12,966 sat next to someone and Maisie does a little potted biography beforehand 160 00:07:12,966 --> 00:07:16,116 and they all tend to say what select committees they sit on and what questions 161 00:07:16,116 --> 00:07:17,076 they've asked in the house recently. 162 00:07:17,076 --> 00:07:19,206 And you think, oh God, this is gonna be really, hard work. 163 00:07:19,206 --> 00:07:21,756 I'm gonna have to talk a lot about housing policy. 164 00:07:22,146 --> 00:07:25,626 And actually they turn out to be just fantastic gossips and really good fun. 165 00:07:26,566 --> 00:07:29,536 Andy: Adam, that was you Ma g Gladbrook back in 2016 when 166 00:07:29,536 --> 00:07:30,676 this podcast was barely a 167 00:07:30,676 --> 00:07:31,396 year old. 168 00:07:31,475 --> 00:07:32,285 Helen: Can I ask you, Adam? 169 00:07:32,315 --> 00:07:35,735 'cause one of the things I'm interested in is that, and, it's lovely about reading 170 00:07:35,735 --> 00:07:38,975 a magazine, a print magazine is, it has a particular architecture and structure 171 00:07:39,035 --> 00:07:40,895 and private eye is a very distinctive one. 172 00:07:40,895 --> 00:07:42,425 So it starts with street of shame. 173 00:07:42,425 --> 00:07:45,684 Then there's HB source, which is politics, and various other bits and pieces. 174 00:07:45,684 --> 00:07:49,494 Then you get to a big chunky section of jokes, and then the back is the sort of 175 00:07:49,494 --> 00:07:51,834 serious investigative journalism bit. 176 00:07:52,453 --> 00:07:53,773 has that been there since the beginning? 177 00:07:53,773 --> 00:07:55,933 Has it always had that particular kind of grammar 178 00:07:55,933 --> 00:07:56,293 to It 179 00:07:56,535 --> 00:07:57,525 Adam: It grew organically. 180 00:07:57,525 --> 00:08:00,225 So when it started it, the intention was always, I remember talking to 181 00:08:00,225 --> 00:08:02,445 Christopher Booker about this, the late Christopher Booker, and he said 182 00:08:02,445 --> 00:08:04,665 the intention was always that they would do investigative journalism. 183 00:08:04,665 --> 00:08:07,035 In fact, in the very, very first edition back in 1961, they had a 184 00:08:07,035 --> 00:08:10,275 big thing saying, coming next week, the K scandal, the inside story 185 00:08:10,275 --> 00:08:11,820 of this, This terrible scandal. 186 00:08:11,820 --> 00:08:14,130 And actually they didn't know enough to actually have any of that. 187 00:08:14,250 --> 00:08:18,360 So the investigative journalism really kicks in, mid, to late sixties. 188 00:08:18,780 --> 00:08:22,350 when Paul Foot, who's the ian of investigative journalists, he's ev any 189 00:08:22,350 --> 00:08:24,990 miscarriage of justice that you wanna name from the sixties, seventies, eighties, 190 00:08:24,990 --> 00:08:28,500 so the Birmingham six, Guilford four, the Carl Bridge Water case, things like that. 191 00:08:28,500 --> 00:08:32,070 He was heavily involved with both in his work at Private Eye and and 192 00:08:32,070 --> 00:08:34,140 at The Daily Mirror, which was a proper newspaper in those days. 193 00:08:34,590 --> 00:08:37,620 he got involved and Michael Gillard, who is still with us, who is slicker. 194 00:08:37,990 --> 00:08:40,120 Who does the city coverage and the back got involved at that point. 195 00:08:40,523 --> 00:08:44,088 but it didn't really get that weird sandwich effect until a bit later 196 00:08:44,088 --> 00:08:45,588 on, which is, it is an odd structure. 197 00:08:45,588 --> 00:08:48,408 The only real explanation I can think of for that is that you give 198 00:08:48,408 --> 00:08:54,168 'em about sort of 18 pages of grim corruption and mps being on the take 199 00:08:54,168 --> 00:08:55,848 and councilors being dodgy and stuff. 200 00:08:55,848 --> 00:08:58,698 And then it's oh God, please can we just have some jokes and cartoons for a bit? 201 00:08:59,568 --> 00:09:02,868 And then you hit them with the kind of investig, the, miscarriages of justice 202 00:09:02,868 --> 00:09:05,268 and the people dying in prison at the end just to really cheer up their 203 00:09:05,511 --> 00:09:09,651 Andy: So Helen, you joined the I so properly only a couple of years ago. 204 00:09:09,651 --> 00:09:09,771 Really? 205 00:09:10,566 --> 00:09:13,566 What is it like coming into an institution which has all of these 206 00:09:13,566 --> 00:09:17,766 layers of, in jokes and history and, it takes a, while to click in. 207 00:09:18,186 --> 00:09:20,436 even as a reader, let alone as a writer for 208 00:09:20,436 --> 00:09:20,556 Helen: it. 209 00:09:20,616 --> 00:09:20,916 Yeah. 210 00:09:21,156 --> 00:09:25,056 I had read Private Eye for years before then, and I think probably having worked 211 00:09:25,056 --> 00:09:28,926 in the media, I particularly bought it for Street of Shame because I worked at 212 00:09:28,986 --> 00:09:30,216 the mail and then the New States menu. 213 00:09:30,216 --> 00:09:35,021 So it, it was about people that I. I was working with or knew about, but I 214 00:09:35,021 --> 00:09:38,201 always used to think of it like, and maybe I said this before, like Willy 215 00:09:38,201 --> 00:09:42,433 Wonka's, Chocolate Factory, no one ever goes in, no one ever goes out. 216 00:09:42,523 --> 00:09:47,083 Like it just, it emerges and some people do have bylines in there, 217 00:09:47,383 --> 00:09:48,823 Craig, for example, Craig Brown. 218 00:09:49,063 --> 00:09:51,943 But you just is a kind of like it was made by elves. 219 00:09:51,973 --> 00:09:53,473 That's my, or, lumps 220 00:09:54,380 --> 00:09:56,810 Adam: God to me must have been such a disappointment when you met us. 221 00:09:57,698 --> 00:10:00,932 Helen: I know there was no singing, there was no chocolate river, but I 222 00:10:00,932 --> 00:10:03,452 think that's part of the mystique, and it's actually one of the reasons I think 223 00:10:03,452 --> 00:10:05,102 lots of people enjoy writing for it. 224 00:10:06,527 --> 00:10:10,667 I really love reviews and there's been a lot of discussion really about 225 00:10:10,667 --> 00:10:12,557 the fact that criticism is dying. 226 00:10:12,827 --> 00:10:15,047 that book sections in newspapers have been shrinking. 227 00:10:15,047 --> 00:10:17,447 It's hard to get advertising for them, and actually because 228 00:10:17,447 --> 00:10:18,617 of the economics of journalism. 229 00:10:18,617 --> 00:10:22,547 Now, freelancers particularly don't want to write rude reviews about mega artists 230 00:10:22,547 --> 00:10:26,537 because, sometimes those mega artists will their fan bases will go after them. 231 00:10:26,987 --> 00:10:29,957 And so Private Eye is one of the last bastions of the truly. 232 00:10:30,192 --> 00:10:31,662 Brutal hatchet job. 233 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,250 and because those are anonymous in the book section, I think people have got 234 00:10:35,250 --> 00:10:38,100 free reign to say what they actually think, not what you know, is gonna 235 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:41,730 ingratiate them with the publisher or their agent, or, do they want to 236 00:10:41,730 --> 00:10:45,000 make an enemy of somebody who's a very big beast in the literary space. 237 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:46,560 So I think the anonymity is. 238 00:10:46,925 --> 00:10:48,245 Is really key to it. 239 00:10:48,245 --> 00:10:51,485 And it's also, it is a bit like maybe China and CHOC Factory isn't the right 240 00:10:51,485 --> 00:10:56,375 sense, but being inducted into a kind of weird secret society in a sense. 241 00:10:56,705 --> 00:10:58,625 there is a private eye voice, isn't there, Adam? 242 00:10:58,625 --> 00:11:02,315 Like when you end up writing stories, you do end up writing 243 00:11:02,315 --> 00:11:05,105 them in a certain kind of uniform 244 00:11:05,105 --> 00:11:05,581 voice. 245 00:11:05,582 --> 00:11:06,602 Adam: there's a sort of house style. 246 00:11:06,752 --> 00:11:09,152 you have to know things like we always spell Andrew Neil was named 247 00:11:09,152 --> 00:11:11,372 with two Ls 'cause he complained about it once we'd spel it wrong. 248 00:11:11,492 --> 00:11:12,242 So we've done it ever since. 249 00:11:12,242 --> 00:11:14,702 'cause they're incredibly petty or, that the king has referred to as 250 00:11:14,702 --> 00:11:15,897 Brian, whereas his mother was Brenda. 251 00:11:16,468 --> 00:11:19,918 Andy: There's another thing about the Eye stories, which they all have in common, 252 00:11:19,918 --> 00:11:22,318 and which is close to a house style. 253 00:11:22,711 --> 00:11:25,831 and it's more upfront in the sections that you especially work on, Adam, 254 00:11:25,831 --> 00:11:28,741 things like street of shame, which is that they're all upside down. 255 00:11:28,951 --> 00:11:32,551 So the traditional newspaper story structure, you put a headline in. 256 00:11:33,176 --> 00:11:36,716 Which contains the absolute most important bit of information. 257 00:11:36,806 --> 00:11:40,406 Oh, and then you have the, your first sentence, which gives that 258 00:11:40,406 --> 00:11:41,696 a tiny bit more fleshing out. 259 00:11:41,926 --> 00:11:44,986 And then you put in the really boring stuff like the, we spoke to 260 00:11:44,986 --> 00:11:47,866 the people involved and they said, this is all rubbish actually, and 261 00:11:48,076 --> 00:11:49,036 we've got the wrong end of the stick. 262 00:11:49,156 --> 00:11:52,366 You put that in right at the end, A Private Eye, piece. 263 00:11:52,756 --> 00:11:53,806 It works like a joke. 264 00:11:54,436 --> 00:11:57,427 you have a. a curious headline at the top, which doesn't really 265 00:11:57,427 --> 00:11:58,657 tell you very much at all. 266 00:11:59,017 --> 00:12:03,007 Then you start off with the kind of setup to it, and then the most important 267 00:12:03,007 --> 00:12:05,497 piece of information goes right at the end because it's serving as the 268 00:12:05,497 --> 00:12:07,897 punchline, which kind of unlocks the whole 269 00:12:08,197 --> 00:12:08,677 rest of the 270 00:12:08,677 --> 00:12:09,187 piece. 271 00:12:09,620 --> 00:12:12,401 I was talking to, I think, some of our work experience, people a couple 272 00:12:12,401 --> 00:12:14,381 of weeks ago and I said, look, just put the article the other way 273 00:12:14,381 --> 00:12:16,391 up and it's, and that's perfect. 274 00:12:17,051 --> 00:12:17,531 and 275 00:12:17,593 --> 00:12:21,223 Adam: That is absolutely what I always do, Andy, I've learned over the 30 odd 276 00:12:21,223 --> 00:12:24,493 years that I've been working here that the, if a story isn't working, you 277 00:12:24,493 --> 00:12:25,813 literally just turn it upside down. 278 00:12:25,813 --> 00:12:28,693 You start with what you had as the ending, and almost always that sorts it out. 279 00:12:28,991 --> 00:12:31,009 Helen: And I think one of the things that, Ian has said before, which 280 00:12:31,009 --> 00:12:34,159 is also very true to the magazine, is he lets the writers follow their 281 00:12:34,159 --> 00:12:34,879 obsessions. 282 00:12:35,509 --> 00:12:39,499 And that's the kind of eclectic mix of stuff that, private eye covers, 283 00:12:39,499 --> 00:12:43,819 but essentially is what are particular writers energized about and they 284 00:12:43,819 --> 00:12:47,149 particularly find interesting, which is quite an interesting way of working. 285 00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:49,399 It's, actually oddly a bit similar to the other magazine 286 00:12:49,399 --> 00:12:50,329 where I work the Atlantic, right? 287 00:12:50,329 --> 00:12:53,569 Which is the idea that you hire good people and then you let them 288 00:12:53,569 --> 00:12:56,479 drive the coverage because they're gonna do their best work when 289 00:12:56,479 --> 00:12:57,919 they're completely engaged with it. 290 00:12:58,839 --> 00:13:03,339 for example, MD Phil Hammond has been really fascinated by the Le be case, 291 00:13:03,339 --> 00:13:05,829 and he's been given a lot of space to keep coming back to that and follow 292 00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:09,459 the developments in a way that I, don't think anyone else really has been able, 293 00:13:09,459 --> 00:13:12,699 like there's no other place in the media that has the structure in place for 294 00:13:12,699 --> 00:13:13,299 someone to do 295 00:13:13,321 --> 00:13:13,621 Adam: Yes. 296 00:13:13,621 --> 00:13:16,501 And the same with T Side and Ben Houchin, which is Richard's particular obsession. 297 00:13:16,501 --> 00:13:17,911 But God, what a source of stories. 298 00:13:18,301 --> 00:13:21,091 and I'll think a lot of editors will say, we've, we've done this, haven't we? 299 00:13:21,091 --> 00:13:24,601 And really we haven't, there is new stuff coming out all, the time on that front. 300 00:13:25,051 --> 00:13:26,821 that's the other thing is they might be short stories, but 301 00:13:26,821 --> 00:13:27,991 God, they run for a long time. 302 00:13:28,171 --> 00:13:28,441 there is. 303 00:13:28,596 --> 00:13:32,286 There is a court case, pending at the moment, a criminal court case, 304 00:13:32,545 --> 00:13:35,213 which involves some people that were written about in Private Eye in 305 00:13:35,213 --> 00:13:38,423 1984 and some of the stuff that was going on in that particular story. 306 00:13:39,233 --> 00:13:43,193 we were advised when, when we were going through doing the best of stories for the, 307 00:13:43,313 --> 00:13:47,543 60 year book in, 2021 by the lawyer, that we needed to black all of that one and 308 00:13:47,573 --> 00:13:51,563 another story out because, there was still ongoing court things coming out of it and 309 00:13:51,563 --> 00:13:53,063 we were in, in risk of contempt of court. 310 00:13:53,063 --> 00:13:54,293 So that's not really a bad record. 311 00:13:54,293 --> 00:13:56,153 1984 to, 2021. 312 00:13:56,264 --> 00:14:00,404 Andy: So you've got Richard Brooks on T side, or the Post 313 00:14:00,404 --> 00:14:03,134 Office scandal, or PFI, or 314 00:14:03,164 --> 00:14:04,154 Helen: think of it as Richard Brooks on 315 00:14:04,154 --> 00:14:04,784 numbers. 316 00:14:04,939 --> 00:14:05,699 Andy: Richard Brooks on 317 00:14:05,699 --> 00:14:05,859 Numbers 318 00:14:06,101 --> 00:14:06,581 Adam: the key to it 319 00:14:06,581 --> 00:14:08,711 is Richard Brooks wasn't trained in journalism. 320 00:14:08,711 --> 00:14:12,581 Richard Brooks was a tax inspector, so unlike almost anyone else on Fleet 321 00:14:12,581 --> 00:14:15,131 Street or what used to be Fleet Street, he knows his way around a balance sheet 322 00:14:15,191 --> 00:14:16,451 and he can read numbers and he answer. 323 00:14:16,751 --> 00:14:19,721 the number of times I've gone up to his, office in the attic at the top of private 324 00:14:19,721 --> 00:14:23,771 and said, Richard, can you tell me what this means with a, with some, accounts 325 00:14:23,771 --> 00:14:25,301 from, from companies house or something. 326 00:14:25,451 --> 00:14:27,461 He, that is in itself a brilliant skill. 327 00:14:27,556 --> 00:14:28,636 Andy: so you've got Richard on that. 328 00:14:28,636 --> 00:14:30,719 You've got, Solomon on the probation service. 329 00:14:30,719 --> 00:14:33,929 You've got Jane McKenzie on things like architecture or conservation 330 00:14:34,139 --> 00:14:34,979 or, military housing, or 331 00:14:34,979 --> 00:14:35,489 a dozen other 332 00:14:35,501 --> 00:14:37,421 Adam: Phil Hammond, who is a working doctor, 333 00:14:37,585 --> 00:14:39,685 Andy: all of these people have been writing about particular things 334 00:14:39,685 --> 00:14:43,344 for a long time, a big chunk of the early episodes of this podcast. 335 00:14:43,344 --> 00:14:44,694 You can go back and listen to them. 336 00:14:44,964 --> 00:14:48,944 If you want to know about the Deep Cut scandal, the shootings of Young Service 337 00:14:48,944 --> 00:14:50,474 men and women at the Deep Cut Barracks. 338 00:14:50,845 --> 00:14:52,570 Heather Mills book on that story for over two decades. 339 00:14:53,345 --> 00:14:56,324 For a new reader to private eye, that might feel like 340 00:14:56,324 --> 00:14:57,344 quite an intimidating thing. 341 00:14:57,344 --> 00:15:02,234 Like I'm not completely sure of this, whereas if you can distill it to a 20, 342 00:15:02,234 --> 00:15:07,034 25 minute chat with a genuinely a world expert, I don't think anyone knows more 343 00:15:07,034 --> 00:15:11,364 about all of these stories than various eye writers who have been Banging on about 344 00:15:11,364 --> 00:15:13,644 them for a long time and updating readers. 345 00:15:14,214 --> 00:15:16,914 that was part of the founding ethos of the podcast is to say, look, these 346 00:15:16,914 --> 00:15:21,384 stories are a roll call of how Britain doesn't work in various different ways, 347 00:15:21,624 --> 00:15:23,184 all big scandals that have happened. 348 00:15:23,424 --> 00:15:24,774 And here's your potted 349 00:15:24,774 --> 00:15:25,134 guide to 350 00:15:25,396 --> 00:15:27,526 Adam: I had a conversation with our colleague Robbie the other week 351 00:15:27,526 --> 00:15:31,546 where I said to him, what are we actually doing when we put in I 1432 352 00:15:31,546 --> 00:15:32,836 or I pass, or anything like that. 353 00:15:32,956 --> 00:15:35,386 is anyone literally going, putting down that copy of the, and going into 354 00:15:35,386 --> 00:15:37,906 their vast library of back issues and looking up everything else we've written 355 00:15:37,911 --> 00:15:39,796 about the thing, but I think in a way. 356 00:15:40,299 --> 00:15:42,639 signaling to people that this has got some depth to it. 357 00:15:42,669 --> 00:15:44,979 That this is something we've been following for an awful long time. 358 00:15:45,579 --> 00:15:48,729 and in future, if they wanna be on things early, they're gonna get onto that. 359 00:15:48,729 --> 00:15:51,429 But also I think that is what the podcast does, gives us an opportunity to do. 360 00:15:51,669 --> 00:15:53,979 But, not everyone is gonna go and hardly anyone. 361 00:15:53,979 --> 00:15:56,229 You would be mad to go back into your entire archive and 362 00:15:56,229 --> 00:15:57,099 read through the whole thing. 363 00:15:57,729 --> 00:16:01,119 so yeah, no, being able to summarize them and, give the background is an 364 00:16:01,119 --> 00:16:02,319 absolutely brilliant opportunity. 365 00:16:02,449 --> 00:16:05,629 Andy: actually, while we're on the subject of anonymity and assumed names here is 366 00:16:05,629 --> 00:16:09,829 Ian Hislop talking about exactly why that is the case and why it's so useful. 367 00:16:10,075 --> 00:16:13,285 Ian Hislop: There comes a point in, people's career when they write for the 368 00:16:13,285 --> 00:16:17,065 eye, when they either get sufficiently established that they can't be fired 369 00:16:17,305 --> 00:16:22,465 in their professions anymore, or they just give up and don't care anymore and 370 00:16:22,465 --> 00:16:24,925 develop a skin so thick, they don't care. 371 00:16:24,925 --> 00:16:25,495 Who knows? 372 00:16:25,645 --> 00:16:29,125 But quite a lot of our columns are written by people inside 373 00:16:29,125 --> 00:16:30,865 the industry's professions. 374 00:16:31,210 --> 00:16:35,170 Businesses they write about and were it to be known who they 375 00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:36,520 were, they would be sacked. 376 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,060 So it's difficult for me to say, why didn't you interview them? 377 00:16:40,210 --> 00:16:43,840 Because that would be the end, not only of their career, but also of the column. 378 00:16:44,530 --> 00:16:46,990 'cause then we wouldn't have the insiders anymore. 379 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,190 I did think about trying to get you to interview people with an actor. 380 00:16:51,855 --> 00:16:56,895 pretending to be Jerry Adams or whatever, but it never really works that. 381 00:16:57,105 --> 00:17:02,325 So I'm afraid for obvious, obvious to me, reasons they have to remain anonymous. 382 00:17:02,565 --> 00:17:05,115 Andy: It is surprising who's secret and who's not. 383 00:17:05,115 --> 00:17:08,505 'cause you would've thought, for example, last, time we had Paul Vickers, who does 384 00:17:08,505 --> 00:17:10,335 Square Bashers military correspondent. 385 00:17:10,335 --> 00:17:11,295 You would've thought, oh, Army. 386 00:17:11,295 --> 00:17:11,865 Very secret. 387 00:17:12,045 --> 00:17:15,765 One of the most secretive people, is Dr. B Ching, who writes about trains. 388 00:17:16,065 --> 00:17:16,515 Ian Hislop: Yes. 389 00:17:17,265 --> 00:17:21,705 compared to the Army, railways is a really dangerous business and people 390 00:17:21,705 --> 00:17:25,545 are very, serious about trains in a way they probably aren't about 391 00:17:25,545 --> 00:17:27,735 destroyers or aircraft carriers. 392 00:17:28,755 --> 00:17:31,785 Paul is, happy to be a defense correspondent, as it were. 393 00:17:31,785 --> 00:17:35,925 But, Dr. B Ching is, he's there in the middle of the action, so I'm 394 00:17:35,925 --> 00:17:41,355 afraid, from getting lynched by commuters or targeted by the rail 395 00:17:41,355 --> 00:17:43,455 industry, you just can't talk to him. 396 00:17:43,545 --> 00:17:44,565 Andy: Are there any people who. 397 00:17:45,015 --> 00:17:47,835 Have one name, but actually they're a conglomerate of different people. 398 00:17:48,705 --> 00:17:49,665 I can't tell you that. 399 00:17:50,445 --> 00:17:50,955 Damnit. 400 00:17:52,155 --> 00:17:52,845 alright. 401 00:17:52,935 --> 00:17:54,555 How did it start? 402 00:17:54,705 --> 00:17:58,125 'cause the whole magazine anonymous, how did that get going in the first place? 403 00:17:58,335 --> 00:18:01,335 that's not an obvious thing for magazines to do necessarily. 404 00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:06,990 Ian Hislop: No, I believe it was a mixture of safety and the original contributors 405 00:18:06,990 --> 00:18:08,730 not wanting to give each other any credit. 406 00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:12,810 So I think it was a, curious mix. 407 00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:17,040 And it was the sixties, so there was a sort of collective feeling about, 408 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,750 but one of the first people to be named was Paul Foote, and he was clear 409 00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:25,380 that doing his sort of journalism, you had to be a focus, a funnel. 410 00:18:25,650 --> 00:18:28,500 We still have people, who writes the business, you know 411 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:30,210 who writes that, but there are. 412 00:18:30,625 --> 00:18:35,125 I still maintain that it is acceptable to have certain people who are 413 00:18:35,185 --> 00:18:38,275 in the midst of it, who you just, you can't reveal who they are. 414 00:18:38,965 --> 00:18:42,070 Andy: Has anyone ever started secret and then decided. 415 00:18:43,090 --> 00:18:44,500 Actually, it doesn't matter anymore. 416 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,150 Ian Hislop: A lot of people start secret. 417 00:18:46,390 --> 00:18:50,650 I'm found saying I'm terribly sorry, I can't say who they are. 418 00:18:50,860 --> 00:18:51,730 And they say, oh really? 419 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,030 'cause they've just done an interview in the paper claiming 420 00:18:55,030 --> 00:18:56,770 all the credit, for some piece. 421 00:18:56,770 --> 00:18:58,090 So it's quite tempting. 422 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,270 if people are any good to start saying, it was me actually. 423 00:19:01,330 --> 00:19:03,730 Andy: Do people get to choose their own nicknames? 424 00:19:03,790 --> 00:19:04,450 'cause you've got. 425 00:19:04,885 --> 00:19:06,085 Bio waste spreader. 426 00:19:06,085 --> 00:19:06,595 Who does pharma? 427 00:19:06,595 --> 00:19:11,155 You've got old Sparky who does energy and power remote controller. 428 00:19:11,155 --> 00:19:12,025 Who does tele? 429 00:19:12,205 --> 00:19:15,835 Are these names that they assume like superhero costumes or are 430 00:19:15,835 --> 00:19:18,655 they names that you impose on them, like superhero costumes? 431 00:19:19,765 --> 00:19:23,275 Ian Hislop: No, they are self-defining and in television there's remote 432 00:19:23,275 --> 00:19:24,235 controller most of the time. 433 00:19:24,235 --> 00:19:28,915 Then occasionally there's someone called youth who takes over when perhaps the 434 00:19:28,915 --> 00:19:30,440 older remote controller isn't there. 435 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:34,180 Though he, she may well be younger. 436 00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:35,410 I'm not giving that away. 437 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,820 And we used to have a farming was done by Old Muck spreader and the new person 438 00:19:39,820 --> 00:19:41,080 doing it felt that was out of date. 439 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,720 So he became new bio waste spreader. 440 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,930 So the nicknames change as do the contributors. 441 00:19:47,020 --> 00:19:50,800 Andy: Is it helpful from a legal point of view as well as in, I think I heard 442 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,040 something about the magazine gets sued rather than the individual writer. 443 00:19:54,370 --> 00:19:58,960 Ian Hislop: It makes it more difficult for vindictive, liable actions, or 444 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,030 privacy actions or confidentiality. 445 00:20:01,030 --> 00:20:04,930 You can't say, that person has betrayed a confidence 'cause you dunno who they are. 446 00:20:05,290 --> 00:20:06,970 So you just have to see the magazine. 447 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,180 So it's helpful in one sense, but it's unhelpful in the sense 448 00:20:10,180 --> 00:20:14,620 that the other side can then say, you don't even have the courage. 449 00:20:14,665 --> 00:20:18,055 To come out, and admit who you are. 450 00:20:18,385 --> 00:20:22,135 I remember some barrister saying, that a contributor had displayed 451 00:20:22,135 --> 00:20:24,565 all the bravery of a rubber chicken. 452 00:20:25,615 --> 00:20:30,505 So the jury may well think, this anonymity's a bit cowardly. 453 00:20:30,715 --> 00:20:31,075 Is there 454 00:20:31,075 --> 00:20:32,155 Andy: anything in that, do you think? 455 00:20:32,635 --> 00:20:36,445 Ian Hislop: I would say not, but I can see why they say it, but I would 456 00:20:36,445 --> 00:20:40,855 say in certain types of journalism it is, it's pretty important not to know. 457 00:20:41,890 --> 00:20:45,010 Andy: Have you selected your own secret name? 458 00:20:45,550 --> 00:20:46,870 Ian Hislop: I use Ian Hislop. 459 00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:49,180 which fools a lot of people. 460 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:56,570 Andy: we heard Ian earlier talking about anonymity of people, and 461 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,930 Adam, as you said, there are a few people who don't mind their names 462 00:20:59,930 --> 00:21:04,250 being public, like Phil Hammond, md. anyone who's appeared on this podcast 463 00:21:04,250 --> 00:21:06,230 obviously has been happy to be named. 464 00:21:06,747 --> 00:21:11,092 but, one of the only actual names that appears in the magazine is that of 465 00:21:11,092 --> 00:21:16,582 Craig Brown, which is a really peculiar quirk, but it, I think he's the only. 466 00:21:17,072 --> 00:21:18,512 Named writer most 467 00:21:18,881 --> 00:21:22,054 Adam: think it's just down to the fact that if you've got Craig Brown working for 468 00:21:22,054 --> 00:21:23,579 you, you want everyone to know about it. 469 00:21:25,072 --> 00:21:27,412 Andy: So Greg does the, diary column. 470 00:21:27,804 --> 00:21:32,364 every week it's, he takes on a different voice or a collection of voices and 471 00:21:32,454 --> 00:21:37,494 just produces an absolutely bananas thousand words of surreal comedy 472 00:21:37,494 --> 00:21:39,954 that kind of are the bridge between. 473 00:21:40,034 --> 00:21:42,674 The jokes and the books pages, but they don't really fit in either. 474 00:21:42,674 --> 00:21:44,744 But it's, it's too good not to have. 475 00:21:45,186 --> 00:21:48,756 Craig is really good at that kind of parody version of satire, which does 476 00:21:48,756 --> 00:21:52,236 crop up a lot in the jokes pages, but he does it in a very specific way. 477 00:21:52,648 --> 00:21:55,708 One of the voices he does, especially well alongside thousands of 478 00:21:55,708 --> 00:21:57,598 others, is that of Donald Trump. 479 00:21:57,598 --> 00:22:03,148 And we, spoke to him in 2016 about how to do Donald Trump. 480 00:22:03,148 --> 00:22:05,038 So this was during Trump 1.0. 481 00:22:05,578 --> 00:22:07,288 but it's about how to get a comedic voice. 482 00:22:07,288 --> 00:22:12,166 Basically, it's about how to communicate, a really strange character and make 483 00:22:12,166 --> 00:22:13,606 it really, funny at the same time. 484 00:22:13,666 --> 00:22:14,266 Here's Craig. 485 00:22:14,625 --> 00:22:18,060 Craig Brown: It is rather hard now that everyone's doing it. 486 00:22:18,060 --> 00:22:20,700 He's, it's almost like you nationalized. 487 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,550 comedy, and so I was trying to think of that. 488 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,390 I did one Melania, a lot of Trumps, which were all right. 489 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,730 It's hard to gauge her cha. 490 00:22:29,850 --> 00:22:33,810 you can gauge her character, oddly enough, through her tweets, Donald 491 00:22:33,810 --> 00:22:38,890 Trump's, you read her tweets and they were very, Bland, but what was I suddenly 492 00:22:38,890 --> 00:22:42,190 realized was striking about them that she hardly ever mentioned other people. 493 00:22:42,460 --> 00:22:49,540 She would tweet views out of Trump, towers of Central Park and pictures of 494 00:22:49,540 --> 00:22:51,340 herself or something she'd just bought. 495 00:22:51,670 --> 00:22:55,030 But it was though you realized it's very kind of lonely life. 496 00:22:55,090 --> 00:23:00,220 I then thought of doing Donald Junior's tweets or something, and I'm sure that 497 00:23:00,220 --> 00:23:03,010 would be a good angle in a bit, like. 498 00:23:03,263 --> 00:23:07,291 Dear Bill, that was a rather good way into Mrs. Atch 'cause she was so done 499 00:23:07,291 --> 00:23:12,151 by satis and jokesters everywhere that actually, if you did it via Dennis 500 00:23:12,156 --> 00:23:15,391 it, it became a fresh joke because you haven't really been doing Twitter. 501 00:23:15,791 --> 00:23:17,021 Diaries for very long. 502 00:23:17,231 --> 00:23:18,326 No, Twitter. 503 00:23:18,331 --> 00:23:21,671 Twitter is a real godsend because it just boils down. 504 00:23:21,671 --> 00:23:24,971 Everyone's vanity and his paranoia and everyone just 505 00:23:24,971 --> 00:23:26,531 becomes more of what they are. 506 00:23:27,161 --> 00:23:30,431 Andy: this is the thing, because it seems a bit like they were, 507 00:23:30,491 --> 00:23:34,091 you were more extreme in your Trump tweets in your early ones. 508 00:23:34,091 --> 00:23:35,951 So more than a year before the election. 509 00:23:35,951 --> 00:23:39,701 Yeah, it was things like, No disrespect to Pope Francis on his 510 00:23:39,701 --> 00:23:42,791 US tour, but the guy looks like a fruit in his frilly white dress. 511 00:23:42,851 --> 00:23:43,181 Fire. 512 00:23:43,181 --> 00:23:44,351 Your Taylor Frank, right? 513 00:23:44,411 --> 00:23:44,621 Yes. 514 00:23:45,641 --> 00:23:47,291 I don't like a loser, don't get me wrong. 515 00:23:47,351 --> 00:23:48,821 Jesus was a remarkable guy. 516 00:23:48,821 --> 00:23:52,511 A genius at publicity, but clinging on with your hands to a cross that 517 00:23:52,511 --> 00:23:54,131 sends out all the wrong messages. 518 00:23:54,671 --> 00:23:58,031 But actually they're not too much less extreme than the ones that you do now. 519 00:23:58,301 --> 00:23:59,891 And maybe that's 'cause he really 520 00:23:59,891 --> 00:24:01,121 Craig Brown: hasn't changed, as you say. 521 00:24:01,451 --> 00:24:02,201 No, he can't. 522 00:24:02,386 --> 00:24:06,766 Change and he gets fixated now on fake news and that kind of thing. 523 00:24:07,546 --> 00:24:11,596 Andy: a lot of what you do, I know that you study your form quite well, 524 00:24:11,596 --> 00:24:15,436 so whenever you do anyone, not just Trump, you get as many samples of their 525 00:24:15,436 --> 00:24:17,056 writing and their speaking as you can. 526 00:24:17,386 --> 00:24:17,746 Craig Brown: Yeah. 527 00:24:17,746 --> 00:24:20,266 That is one, that's a way of work avoidance. 528 00:24:20,296 --> 00:24:23,536 'cause you think, if I'm, if I, it's easier to read tweets 529 00:24:23,536 --> 00:24:24,436 rather than create them. 530 00:24:24,766 --> 00:24:28,516 It's also a kind of laziness because especially with Trump, you can use. 531 00:24:29,216 --> 00:24:32,936 95% of what he writes and just change the name or that, that kind of thing. 532 00:24:33,296 --> 00:24:38,276 But also I think that, with parody mistake people make when they're trying 533 00:24:38,276 --> 00:24:41,246 to do parodies, he's just doing too much of themselves and you should just 534 00:24:41,246 --> 00:24:43,946 let, it's like jujitsu or something. 535 00:24:43,946 --> 00:24:48,266 You should let the person's weight he wants creates the fall. 536 00:24:49,886 --> 00:24:51,986 Andy: actually on that note, I have a little game that I 537 00:24:51,986 --> 00:24:53,096 thought might be useful to play. 538 00:24:53,096 --> 00:24:54,116 I have got some. 539 00:24:54,631 --> 00:24:56,821 Trauma tweets and I've got some of your trauma tweets. 540 00:24:56,911 --> 00:24:57,901 And so I 541 00:24:57,901 --> 00:25:01,381 Craig Brown: guess I'll be able to do them just because I think you probably will. 542 00:25:01,921 --> 00:25:06,481 because usually, if I can't, and it's a, it doesn't say much for my tweets. 543 00:25:06,511 --> 00:25:09,541 'cause I think there's, the thing about parody is you are, not just 544 00:25:09,541 --> 00:25:13,381 trying to recreate someone, you are trying to edge them into comedy 545 00:25:13,381 --> 00:25:15,626 whilst retaining their essence. 546 00:25:15,646 --> 00:25:19,621 And so I think if I can't get it, it means my joke isn't good enough. 547 00:25:20,341 --> 00:25:21,271 Andy: Okay, we'll see. 548 00:25:21,361 --> 00:25:23,311 so this is basically a referendum on your jokes, right? 549 00:25:23,496 --> 00:25:23,526 yeah. 550 00:25:23,531 --> 00:25:24,166 Who it is, yeah. 551 00:25:24,171 --> 00:25:24,331 Yeah. 552 00:25:25,741 --> 00:25:29,731 Lightweight bands, Stars, refuse to play at my inauguration. 553 00:25:29,851 --> 00:25:30,811 Poor work ethic, unfair. 554 00:25:33,421 --> 00:25:34,681 Craig Brown: I guess that was Trump. 555 00:25:34,681 --> 00:25:34,981 Yeah. 556 00:25:35,191 --> 00:25:35,761 That's you. 557 00:25:35,821 --> 00:25:36,271 That was, 558 00:25:38,461 --> 00:25:38,761 yeah. 559 00:25:39,091 --> 00:25:46,291 I should have put some specific rock reference or that someone he was hoping 560 00:25:46,291 --> 00:25:48,691 to get who would be a very naff person. 561 00:25:48,961 --> 00:25:49,351 Andy: Okay. 562 00:25:49,381 --> 00:25:49,861 Next up. 563 00:25:49,891 --> 00:25:50,161 Yeah. 564 00:25:50,251 --> 00:25:51,031 It's freezing. 565 00:25:51,061 --> 00:25:53,161 It's freezing and snowing in New York. 566 00:25:53,191 --> 00:25:54,571 We need global warming. 567 00:25:57,196 --> 00:25:58,186 I'd say that's Trump. 568 00:25:58,426 --> 00:25:58,606 It. 569 00:25:58,606 --> 00:25:59,356 Is Trump good? 570 00:25:59,416 --> 00:25:59,656 Yeah. 571 00:26:01,531 --> 00:26:01,821 Yeah. 572 00:26:01,846 --> 00:26:03,226 So it's one all so far. 573 00:26:04,966 --> 00:26:09,736 the cheap 12 inch square marble tiles behind speaker at UN always bothered me. 574 00:26:10,036 --> 00:26:13,576 I will replace with beautiful large marble slabs if they ask me. 575 00:26:14,656 --> 00:26:19,966 Craig Brown: Oh, that would be, I would be quite pleased if I'd done that. 576 00:26:20,386 --> 00:26:22,816 But I can't remember doing it, so I guess that's Trump. 577 00:26:22,876 --> 00:26:23,596 It is Trump, yeah. 578 00:26:23,596 --> 00:26:23,776 Good. 579 00:26:23,806 --> 00:26:24,616 Oh man, you've got 580 00:26:24,616 --> 00:26:25,366 Andy: so many of them so far. 581 00:26:26,236 --> 00:26:26,866 one last one. 582 00:26:27,316 --> 00:26:30,166 Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those 583 00:26:30,166 --> 00:26:33,106 who have fought me and lost so badly, they just dunno what to do. 584 00:26:34,606 --> 00:26:39,286 Craig Brown: I've seen he, he's done tweets which say, happy Father's 585 00:26:39,286 --> 00:26:41,416 Day, even to the losers and haters. 586 00:26:41,716 --> 00:26:44,656 And and he does a whole series of that usually. 587 00:26:44,656 --> 00:26:46,846 So in a way his are usually stronger than that. 588 00:26:46,876 --> 00:26:48,226 I'd say That's Trump, I'm afraid. 589 00:26:48,856 --> 00:26:49,666 It is Trump. 590 00:26:49,666 --> 00:26:50,626 Oh, good, Yeah. 591 00:26:50,716 --> 00:26:52,036 Oh, you've done very well. 592 00:26:54,650 --> 00:26:56,600 Andy: There's Craig Brown in 2016 on donald 593 00:26:57,017 --> 00:26:59,612 Adam: I remember years ago having a conversation with one of Craig's. 594 00:27:00,287 --> 00:27:03,017 Victims, I suppose you should call them someone who was 595 00:27:03,017 --> 00:27:03,977 parody in the diary section. 596 00:27:03,977 --> 00:27:06,497 Not Donald Trump, I have to say, but I will spare their blushes and not say who. 597 00:27:06,857 --> 00:27:09,887 But they just said, they thought it was hilarious, but also they 598 00:27:09,887 --> 00:27:11,087 were slightly devastated by it. 599 00:27:11,087 --> 00:27:14,027 'cause they realized that one of the phrases he used was just something that 600 00:27:14,027 --> 00:27:15,557 they used all the time in their writing. 601 00:27:15,557 --> 00:27:17,237 And from that moment on, that was it. 602 00:27:17,267 --> 00:27:18,917 They could never, ever use it again. 603 00:27:19,030 --> 00:27:21,370 Andy: Craig actually has recent form with Donald Trump, so he 604 00:27:21,370 --> 00:27:25,330 wrote a book about, the Queen, called a Avoid Around the Queen. 605 00:27:25,330 --> 00:27:25,930 Really good book. 606 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:32,472 And, in it, he just mentioned in passing, the claim that Trump had made that he was. 607 00:27:32,697 --> 00:27:37,384 Of all the presidents she'd met over the last 70 years, he was her favorite 608 00:27:37,384 --> 00:27:41,374 president and he said, a lot of people have told me that, I was her favorite. 609 00:27:41,434 --> 00:27:45,544 And we're talking back to the days of, Eisenhower here and we're going back a 610 00:27:46,114 --> 00:27:46,804 really long way. 611 00:27:47,044 --> 00:27:47,404 Yeah. 612 00:27:47,652 --> 00:27:50,742 anyway, Craig simply mentioned this in his book and, might've raised an 613 00:27:50,742 --> 00:27:53,775 eyebrow and said, recollections may vary. 614 00:27:54,195 --> 00:27:57,555 At which point Trump was then asked about this at a press conference and called 615 00:27:57,735 --> 00:27:58,185 Craig a 616 00:27:59,104 --> 00:28:00,694 Adam: Oh, the glory. 617 00:28:01,350 --> 00:28:03,210 Andy: And of all the words you'd use to describe Craig, 618 00:28:03,210 --> 00:28:04,770 as you've heard from that clip 619 00:28:04,942 --> 00:28:06,624 Adam: That's why he deserves his byline. 620 00:28:08,495 --> 00:28:09,605 Andy: I think we should have another of these. 621 00:28:09,605 --> 00:28:12,965 There are so many different small sections of the eye, which have 622 00:28:12,965 --> 00:28:14,285 been going for such a long time. 623 00:28:14,375 --> 00:28:15,425 So one of which. 624 00:28:16,130 --> 00:28:20,900 is Dumb Britain, which is this tiny box of the eye, which has been going 625 00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:25,141 for decades now, and it's real answers given on British quiz shows, by 626 00:28:25,141 --> 00:28:27,031 real contestants to real questions. 627 00:28:27,331 --> 00:28:30,811 And it's compiled every fortnight by Marcus Berkman, who gets through an 628 00:28:30,811 --> 00:28:33,361 enormous amount of quizzing and quizzes. 629 00:28:33,961 --> 00:28:36,901 and here's him giving a little guide to that section and 630 00:28:36,931 --> 00:28:38,341 how it arose and what's in 631 00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:41,649 Marcus: They're not there to illustrate that the world is full of thickies. 632 00:28:41,649 --> 00:28:45,609 Although obviously if you do watch as many quiz shows as I do, you realize that 633 00:28:45,609 --> 00:28:49,719 the world is indeed full of thickies, but it's not specifically supposed to do 634 00:28:49,719 --> 00:28:51,519 that is supposed to be, make you laugh. 635 00:28:51,849 --> 00:28:53,439 Andy: A lot of the answers are chosen because. 636 00:28:53,894 --> 00:28:57,254 They're very apt, or they're inapt in exactly the right way. 637 00:28:57,254 --> 00:29:00,734 So for example, who formulated the laws of gravity after watching an apple 638 00:29:00,734 --> 00:29:02,264 fall from a tree at his linker home? 639 00:29:02,949 --> 00:29:04,419 Contestant answers Einstein. 640 00:29:04,479 --> 00:29:04,899 Marcus: Yes. 641 00:29:05,109 --> 00:29:05,349 Andy: Yeah. 642 00:29:05,552 --> 00:29:08,822 Marcus: and the point is, some of these questions you have to really 643 00:29:08,822 --> 00:29:12,272 think about how anyone is actually gonna come up with any of these things. 644 00:29:12,272 --> 00:29:13,142 So for example, 645 00:29:13,202 --> 00:29:13,382 Andy: yeah, 646 00:29:13,442 --> 00:29:15,902 Marcus: that one of my favorites, and this is from the, I think the seventies 647 00:29:15,902 --> 00:29:20,042 or the eighties, and we put this on the cover of a Dumb Britain book and the, it 648 00:29:20,042 --> 00:29:24,452 was on Radio Mercy side, and the presenter said, what was Hitler's first name? 649 00:29:24,662 --> 00:29:25,622 And the caller said, Hyle. 650 00:29:27,302 --> 00:29:33,062 It's the imaginative process that comes up with, with these amazing answers. 651 00:29:33,212 --> 00:29:33,302 Yeah. 652 00:29:33,302 --> 00:29:34,952 That is what we, that what we love. 653 00:29:35,372 --> 00:29:38,132 Andy: So you presumably reject the idea. 654 00:29:38,132 --> 00:29:40,412 This is just a, snobbish exercise. 655 00:29:40,442 --> 00:29:42,752 'cause the name Dumb Britain, it, does imply a certain. 656 00:29:44,982 --> 00:29:45,822 from, it does, 657 00:29:45,822 --> 00:29:50,082 Marcus: but, I inherited the, column name and I've never particularly liked it. 658 00:29:50,082 --> 00:29:52,602 And I've, I actually spent 20 years trying to justify it. 659 00:29:52,752 --> 00:29:56,112 And because people do get cross about it, and I get letters regularly from 660 00:29:56,112 --> 00:30:00,672 people saying, dumb Britain, sneering at, people getting things wrong. 661 00:30:01,362 --> 00:30:01,827 yes and no. 662 00:30:02,462 --> 00:30:06,482 Andy: Have you suffered a catastrophic collapse on a quiz show? 663 00:30:06,482 --> 00:30:07,742 Because you do a lot of quizzes. 664 00:30:07,802 --> 00:30:08,912 I don't think the readers may know this. 665 00:30:09,062 --> 00:30:09,242 No, they 666 00:30:09,242 --> 00:30:09,512 Marcus: don't. 667 00:30:09,572 --> 00:30:13,532 And, I have a sideline and I'm a quiz master, so I do lots and lots of quiz 668 00:30:13,532 --> 00:30:17,632 mastering all over the, southeast, of England all the time and do about. 669 00:30:18,082 --> 00:30:20,152 Probably one a week, 50 a year, roughly. 670 00:30:20,482 --> 00:30:25,822 But I've been on a couple of quiz shows, and I went on, 15 to one, which 671 00:30:25,822 --> 00:30:30,112 I was completely obsessed with in the, nineties, totally obsessed with, and 672 00:30:30,172 --> 00:30:33,172 I think it was on two or three times different, on different occasions. 673 00:30:33,412 --> 00:30:37,222 Two of the times I came up with the most catastrophic errors. 674 00:30:37,922 --> 00:30:41,822 the first time I was on it was, who was the Sun King of France. 675 00:30:41,852 --> 00:30:42,152 Okay. 676 00:30:42,362 --> 00:30:45,962 And I came up with the wrong louisie, although I, my, my brain knew 677 00:30:45,962 --> 00:30:48,752 which louisie it was, but my mouth definitely said the wrong louisie. 678 00:30:49,262 --> 00:30:52,592 and there was another one I was on and, I needed to answer 679 00:30:52,592 --> 00:30:54,722 one question to win the show. 680 00:30:55,292 --> 00:31:00,362 And William G. Stewart read out the dictionary definition of a stenographer. 681 00:31:00,722 --> 00:31:01,112 Andy: Okay. 682 00:31:01,322 --> 00:31:03,902 Marcus: He could have said, what are those two things on the end of 683 00:31:03,902 --> 00:31:05,672 your legs with five toes on each? 684 00:31:05,792 --> 00:31:09,332 But, and, I wouldn't have known the answer 'cause my brain had gone. 685 00:31:09,662 --> 00:31:14,192 So I'm sympathetic to people who, who go on these chin things and 686 00:31:14,192 --> 00:31:15,632 make complete fools of themselves. 687 00:31:15,692 --> 00:31:16,592 Andy: I think we can all. 688 00:31:16,997 --> 00:31:17,537 Empathize. 689 00:31:17,537 --> 00:31:19,967 There are times in all of our lives, and I still think of 690 00:31:19,967 --> 00:31:21,227 questions I've got wrong in quizzes. 691 00:31:21,977 --> 00:31:22,457 Marcus: absolutely. 692 00:31:22,457 --> 00:31:23,087 All the time. 693 00:31:24,287 --> 00:31:30,317 you did you know that in 2005, Ian, his op and Christopher Booker and Francis 694 00:31:30,317 --> 00:31:35,447 Ween and I went on university, challenged the professionals as the prior I team. 695 00:31:35,447 --> 00:31:40,187 I did not know that there were 10 shows and the top four scoring teams went 696 00:31:40,187 --> 00:31:43,877 onto the semifinals and ours was the last of the main 10 to be recorded, 697 00:31:43,877 --> 00:31:45,917 and we had to get 210 points to. 698 00:31:46,582 --> 00:31:48,352 To go on, which is a lot of points. 699 00:31:48,562 --> 00:31:53,602 And we started, amazingly, we were playing tores and we started like a train and, his 700 00:31:53,602 --> 00:31:56,002 lot Booker and Ween, they're brilliant. 701 00:31:56,062 --> 00:31:57,232 They're, they know everything. 702 00:31:57,262 --> 00:31:59,002 And they were fantastic. 703 00:31:59,002 --> 00:32:01,342 And I got one or two things and we were working really well. 704 00:32:01,342 --> 00:32:07,822 And then we started ballsing things up and we were leading, I think 1, 3, 5 to 15. 705 00:32:08,362 --> 00:32:10,762 And in the end, I think we only scored 150 points and we didn't 706 00:32:10,762 --> 00:32:12,772 go through and we all fell away. 707 00:32:12,772 --> 00:32:13,372 And one of. 708 00:32:13,832 --> 00:32:18,842 The bonus rounds was Ian's special subject in finals at university 709 00:32:18,962 --> 00:32:20,132 and he got none of them right. 710 00:32:20,882 --> 00:32:25,712 And he said afterwards he says, I've done, have I got news for you for 15 years? 711 00:32:25,712 --> 00:32:27,962 And that was much more stressful than any of those. 712 00:32:29,177 --> 00:32:30,767 It's, it happens to everybody. 713 00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:31,839 Andy: Marcus Bergman. 714 00:32:32,062 --> 00:32:34,312 The thing that Marcus was really keen to get across in that interview is, 715 00:32:34,312 --> 00:32:36,532 firstly, it happens to everybody. 716 00:32:36,772 --> 00:32:40,432 This phenomenon of giving a comically wrong answer, an answer 717 00:32:40,432 --> 00:32:44,542 that's al almost not even wrong, it's so wrong, is a universal one. 718 00:32:44,542 --> 00:32:46,552 And that's the kind of glorious, joyful thing. 719 00:32:46,732 --> 00:32:50,028 And sometimes the connections that people make in their minds, is wonderful. 720 00:32:50,028 --> 00:32:55,008 Like his frank, the someone who gave an answer to, who painted the girl with 721 00:32:55,008 --> 00:32:59,287 a pearl earring, the, famous portrait, and the contestant answered Frank Bth. 722 00:33:00,152 --> 00:33:00,902 Now what, 723 00:33:01,145 --> 00:33:03,755 Adam: I've been known best for presenting breakfast telly in the 1980s with 724 00:33:03,755 --> 00:33:07,565 Selena Scott wearing nice jumpers, not known as a painter as far as I know. 725 00:33:07,883 --> 00:33:08,513 Andy: Exactly. 726 00:33:08,573 --> 00:33:11,303 But what had happened was the contestant had thought, famous portrait. 727 00:33:11,333 --> 00:33:13,613 Okay, I need a famous painter, Van Goff. 728 00:33:13,853 --> 00:33:17,423 But in the process of saying Van Gogh had just, their brain had 729 00:33:17,423 --> 00:33:18,533 just garbled it to Frank Boff. 730 00:33:18,563 --> 00:33:21,863 And that's, those are the kind of glorious bits of dumb Britain. 731 00:33:21,863 --> 00:33:22,793 Those are the really fun ones. 732 00:33:22,809 --> 00:33:25,908 I suppose one final question to finish off, Helen and Adam, if 733 00:33:25,908 --> 00:33:28,728 you could send listeners back to listen to one bit of the podcast. 734 00:33:28,728 --> 00:33:32,058 One thing that you think sums up not only page 94, but also private eye. 735 00:33:33,093 --> 00:33:34,443 Where would you send people back to? 736 00:33:34,998 --> 00:33:39,048 Helen: I would pick Jane Mackenzie, talking about RAAC, which is a very 737 00:33:39,048 --> 00:33:40,668 strange, bubbly form of concrete. 738 00:33:40,908 --> 00:33:43,488 And I remember her coming on to talk about the fact that it had been used in 739 00:33:43,488 --> 00:33:47,178 schools and lots of official buildings and it was not to put too fine a point 740 00:33:47,178 --> 00:33:50,718 on it, breaking in a way that, that you don't really want concrete that 741 00:33:50,718 --> 00:33:51,858 you've made schools outta to break. 742 00:33:51,858 --> 00:33:53,748 And I remember thinking it was one of those moments in pri 743 00:33:53,748 --> 00:33:56,478 like classic private eye moment, But Jane, this sounds terrible. 744 00:33:56,478 --> 00:33:57,888 Why is no one talking about this? 745 00:33:58,788 --> 00:34:01,218 and sure enough, I think about it was like you set your watch 746 00:34:01,218 --> 00:34:02,418 by it about two months later. 747 00:34:02,418 --> 00:34:05,598 There was a huge scandal about it, about school, the fact that the government 748 00:34:05,598 --> 00:34:08,148 was now on the hook for lots of money to rebuild schools that were built 749 00:34:08,148 --> 00:34:09,558 with this particular type of concrete. 750 00:34:09,858 --> 00:34:12,588 But it was a really good example of a story that on the surface 751 00:34:12,588 --> 00:34:16,338 looks really unglamorous, but just had a huge amount of depth to it. 752 00:34:16,338 --> 00:34:19,458 And I think Jane was very prescient in picking it up and also. 753 00:34:19,898 --> 00:34:24,908 I've again, the private eye way of writing and the podcasting made a 754 00:34:24,908 --> 00:34:28,928 story about concrete, somehow gripping, which is a great achievement, I think. 755 00:34:29,010 --> 00:34:30,000 Adam: Sexy concrete. 756 00:34:30,030 --> 00:34:30,180 Yeah. 757 00:34:30,663 --> 00:34:31,233 Andy: Yeah, 758 00:34:31,293 --> 00:34:31,683 Adam. 759 00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:33,420 Adam: I would go back. 760 00:34:33,529 --> 00:34:36,349 there was one that you and I did together where we just, we were 761 00:34:36,349 --> 00:34:38,239 talking about that way of explaining all the backstory to something. 762 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,909 We basically did the entire mirror phone hacking scandal in kind of 20 763 00:34:40,909 --> 00:34:43,759 minutes and, laid that one out for everyone, which I enjoyed a lot. 764 00:34:44,046 --> 00:34:47,128 but also, in terms of the, sort of the history of the eye, there was one that 765 00:34:47,158 --> 00:34:52,348 you did with, Ian Hislop and, Francis Ween now sadly retired, where they just talked. 766 00:34:52,348 --> 00:34:53,398 It was that strange point. 767 00:34:53,813 --> 00:34:56,903 to everyone's surprise, suddenly the Maxwell family erupted back into public 768 00:34:56,903 --> 00:35:00,623 consciousness, with Ghislaine, Maxwell's involvement in the Jeffrey Epstein 769 00:35:00,623 --> 00:35:04,613 scandal, and they basically did the backstory of, Robert Maxwell, her father, 770 00:35:04,613 --> 00:35:08,603 who had attempted to sue the eye out of existence repeatedly and failed before 771 00:35:08,603 --> 00:35:11,183 dropping off the back of his yacht and turning out to have stolen millions and 772 00:35:11,183 --> 00:35:12,383 millions of pounds from his company. 773 00:35:12,863 --> 00:35:15,293 just in terms of kinda explaining backstories, those two I would think 774 00:35:15,293 --> 00:35:16,433 were particular highlights for me. 775 00:35:16,545 --> 00:35:17,475 Helen: do you have a favorite, Andy? 776 00:35:18,405 --> 00:35:19,815 Andy: I've got 150 favorites, Helen, 777 00:35:20,352 --> 00:35:22,242 Adam: It's like choosing one of your children, isn't it? 778 00:35:24,855 --> 00:35:26,055 Andy: I would say. 779 00:35:26,430 --> 00:35:30,180 That if you look for Richard Brooks talking about the post office 780 00:35:30,180 --> 00:35:33,971 scandal, it's just such a thorough explainer. 781 00:35:33,971 --> 00:35:36,371 If that's a story that you were interested in, if you saw Mr. 782 00:35:36,371 --> 00:35:40,541 Bates versus the post office, Richard and his colleague Nick Wallace, 783 00:35:41,531 --> 00:35:44,561 who, both worked on the story a great deal for many years, did an 784 00:35:44,561 --> 00:35:46,511 absolutely terrific job exposing. 785 00:35:46,976 --> 00:35:49,916 Just what went wrong and how and what comes next. 786 00:35:50,006 --> 00:35:51,386 And I think that's always really interesting. 787 00:35:51,386 --> 00:35:54,116 And when, I do one of these long interviews with an 788 00:35:54,116 --> 00:35:56,396 expert, I try and say, what? 789 00:35:56,426 --> 00:35:58,046 What can be done about it? 790 00:35:58,346 --> 00:36:00,716 And sometimes the answer is optimistic and sometimes it's not. 791 00:36:00,716 --> 00:36:03,236 But it's always fascinating to hear people say, how we got 792 00:36:03,236 --> 00:36:04,946 here and what, can be done. 793 00:36:05,457 --> 00:36:07,137 okay, so there you have it. 794 00:36:07,214 --> 00:36:08,880 There's your guide to, not only this podcast. 795 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:09,630 Thank you for listening. 796 00:36:09,847 --> 00:36:10,987 there are 150 episodes. 797 00:36:11,017 --> 00:36:12,217 Go back and listen to all of them. 798 00:36:12,337 --> 00:36:16,987 Each one containing amazing stories about what is going right and more frequently 799 00:36:16,987 --> 00:36:18,607 wrong around Britain and the world today. 800 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,460 if we've peaked your interest, if you are, I curious, the first 801 00:36:22,460 --> 00:36:23,685 thing to do is go into your local. 802 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:25,520 Just go with it guys. 803 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:26,000 The 804 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:26,390 first 805 00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:26,930 thing to do 806 00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:28,340 is 807 00:36:28,340 --> 00:36:30,560 walk into your local news agent and pick up a copy. 808 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:31,340 You cannot miss it. 809 00:36:31,340 --> 00:36:35,746 It is the only magazine with a photo bubble cover in this day and age, And 810 00:36:35,746 --> 00:36:38,386 for those of you who have picked up your first copy of Private Eye, the 811 00:36:38,386 --> 00:36:42,253 next thing to do is go to the website and get, a fortnightly subscription. 812 00:36:42,645 --> 00:36:47,514 . we'll be back again with another three unlikely subjects yoked together in 813 00:36:47,514 --> 00:36:49,814 the podcast format, a fortnight's time. 814 00:36:49,964 --> 00:36:52,454 Until then, thanks for listening to page 94. 815 00:36:52,638 --> 00:36:55,128 Thanks to Helen and Adam, all of our contributors today. 816 00:36:55,308 --> 00:36:57,318 And as always do Matt Hill of Rethink audio. 817 00:36:57,468 --> 00:36:58,008 Bye for now.