00;00;00;00 - 00;00;11;26
Unknown
Okay.

00;00;11;26 - 00;00;24;03
Unknown
All right, folks, welcome to ten seven with American Sheriff where we talk everything law enforcement, military and business. And we've got a couple guests today. We kind of did this one, off the cuff.

00;00;24;03 - 00;00;42;12
Unknown
But, I've known Burt and Clark for a long time. As a matter of fact, Bert has been my lawyer, helping me set businesses up and doing a lot of different things. For many, many years. Long before I think I was the sheriff. And then, Clark is partner, but these guys are specialists in patents, trademarks.

00;00;42;15 - 00;01;01;08
Unknown
I'm gonna let you guys dive in a little bit of your background, but thank you for being with us today, and I, they're part of the 1017. And thank you for being willing to be part of the 1017. Thank you. Mark's pleasure to be here. Happy to be with you. Yeah. Thanks for having us. We appreciate it. So, Clark, give a little bit of background on you other than you fell off an 80ft cliff.

00;01;01;10 - 00;01;18;19
Unknown
That was something I didn't know. 87ft. That's almost. You should sell it is 90ft, by the way. So I don't like to exaggerate, you know what I mean? So I usually go with 85. We have measured it since it was. It was an 87ft cliff. It was a good it was a good little tumble. So I'm happy to be here.

00;01;18;19 - 00;01;53;04
Unknown
Still alive. Nothing broke. Too bad. So I can still walk. And I'm happy about that. But, besides falling off cliffs when I'm not doing that, I, I'm an attorney, so we do mostly intellectual property work. We do patents, trademarks, and a lot of business stuff. So always related to that sort of thing is entrepreneur. So anyone who is doing a startup that's our favorite place to be is with people who are starting their own businesses and coming up with ways we have kind of that naive capitalist idea that people start businesses because they want to make the world a better place.

00;01;53;07 - 00;02;09;17
Unknown
And so law enforcement and military guys are really well positioned to do exactly that. So we heard about what you're doing and starting here at ten seven, it was a great opportunity for us. It was something we definitely wanted to support. Oh I love it. I love working with you guys too. And bird tell them a little bit about yourself.

00;02;09;20 - 00;02;33;23
Unknown
Yeah. So don't tell them any of the bad stuff. Yeah but try to stay. Just stay with the good stuff. It's about Burt. Yeah, but Burt, with my background, a little history. So I was a mechanical engineer for, like, ten, 11 years before going back and becoming an attorney and decided I was working at General Electric in South Carolina for a couple of years and got sick of doing engineering work for some reason.

00;02;33;25 - 00;02;58;07
Unknown
And my wife let me go back to law school. So I went back with four kids and, I was back in and just after 2012 or so and then got out in 2015. So I've been working as an attorney since, and Clark and I met just a couple of years after I graduated. So around 2016, 2017, I feel like we've been doing business since about that time too.

00;02;58;07 - 00;03;17;19
Unknown
Same same amount of time. Yeah, because we met like pretty much right out of the gate. Yeah. I moved back to Arizona from Michigan. Yeah, yeah. So I was pretty quick. Yeah. That's cool. So yeah. So I was an engineer for a long time. And Scott Sarah worked on rockets, missiles, gas turbine engines and it's a bit of a change.

00;03;17;22 - 00;03;39;23
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. I failed the grammar test initially, so I didn't know the right grammar. I had to learn that. Like, who does nowadays, nowadays are saying that everybody uses like the AI platform so much that. Right. They are not coming out of school well versed in grammar. No. Yeah. They're say my first year in law school, they're like, if you don't pass the grammar test, you don't pass law school.

00;03;39;23 - 00;03;58;06
Unknown
I'm like, crap, I'm an engineer. I don't know how to write. I don't know how to analyze stuff. Not right. So like I studied my butt off and I missed like 1 or 2 points, but that was it. So I finally got I don't think I still got grammar right because I still speak Russian. So we all look as long as you can get convey your point.

00;03;58;13 - 00;04;21;14
Unknown
I learned a long time ago, just be you, right? And convey your point. And people will accept you for who you are. They actually they actually like the authenticity, I think. Right. And our wives are there to correct us all the time. My wife corrects my grammar. That's part of the reason why when when I started thinking about ten, seven, you know, Burt and Clark were actually the first people I thought of.

00;04;21;14 - 00;04;52;18
Unknown
You guys were the first people I thought of like, hey, I think these guys would be perfect for what we're doing for law enforcement, for first responders, for for military veterans. Like you said, you know, you guys have been passionate about it. And we saw an opportunity, a really a void where a need where not everybody has knowledge in in law or in business when they spent a career serving public service, they don't always get that opportunity to either go to school to learn about business or run businesses themselves.

00;04;52;20 - 00;05;12;28
Unknown
And so when this came up, I thought, who better, Burt and Clark, let's get them in here and see it. So I was glad that you guys were willing to do it. No, thanks for having us. And we're enjoy. Like I have nephews in the law are in the military right now, and, I got my best friend, my all the son's best friend.

00;05;12;28 - 00;05;32;04
Unknown
He's in the Marines reserve. So we're well versed in. We love the military. We love first responders. Anything to do with them? We're here to support. Well, we appreciate it. We appreciate it. And I know that, a lot of guys, by the time they see this podcast, they'll have watched the videos with you guys in it talking about different things.

00;05;32;12 - 00;05;56;21
Unknown
What is, IP accelerate? What is your specialty? What is as lawyers, you tend to go criminal. You go there. Should go that you guys have decided that your specialty is what intellectual property. So that's what IP stands for. Most people don't know that. So with accelerate IP, including me, like I know what IP stands for, but I never gathered the IP.

00;05;56;21 - 00;06;17;09
Unknown
Accelerate. Yeah. So I learned something today. Yeah. So intellectual property is anything that comes out of your mind. Right. So anything that's developing inside your mind that you're able to put down in some type of tangible form or even non tangible form. So patents, trademarks, copyrights, even trade secrets, stuff that you've developed and came up with your mind, that's what we like protecting.

00;06;17;11 - 00;06;38;09
Unknown
And so that's where your business is really the value in your business is coming from an from intellectual property. So most individuals that are coming up with some type of business concept or business plan, their intellectual property is what they're putting down and selling to as a service or as a product to other people. So somebody has got this amazing idea.

00;06;38;12 - 00;07;04;10
Unknown
Do they have to have a trademark to own that intellectual property or patented it? While patent is a little bit different, but copyright or even trademark is really kind of the, you know, that intellectual property, do they actually have to have a trademark to own that intellectual property, or is the safest thing to trademark it? Safest thing is probably the trademark is so you're wanting to protect that brand.

00;07;04;10 - 00;07;26;05
Unknown
So within intellectual property you got patterns, trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets. So patents is anything that is like an invention. So something that you come up that you could get some type of protection on that will give you 20 years of protection if you file it with the United States Trademark Office, where trademarks is more of your brand. So like a logo, something that you're putting consumer forward.

00;07;26;08 - 00;07;44;22
Unknown
So consumer facing. So you the consumer is going to see your brand be able to relate that to some type of product or service that you're getting. And then copyright is everything you see every day. So like websites, videos, images, you name it is protected by copyright. And then trade secrets like Coca-Cola formulas, WD 40.

00;07;44;22 - 00;08;03;14
Unknown
So Coca-Cola puts theirs behind evolved Wd40 has like two separate places that they mix their stuff out, and they mix that at one facility. So it's they're they're able to keep their stuff separate in a way from the public. And that's what a trade secret is. So those are like your format, more main intellectual properties that you're trying to protect.

00;08;03;16 - 00;08;24;25
Unknown
Then that's what we try to focus on is that. And so with trademarks, that's your brand. That's like your forward facing consumer protection. So you're able to look at Apple for example, and know that they could make computers. Nike makes sporting clothing. So we all associate those brand names to the stuff that they're able to that they're producing them.

00;08;24;25 - 00;08;48;14
Unknown
There's lots of value. There's think of how much Coca Cola brands worth an Apple brands worth trillion dollar companies. And they're it's all for is through branding. They provide the products and service. Q-Tip. Yeah Q-Tip stuff like that where they can can become generic like Kleenex, but they're still able to protect that type of brand. So as people start calling like tissue paper, Kleenex, that's become generic over the years.

00;08;48;14 - 00;09;07;16
Unknown
But I don't know if I, I don't know if I ever told you about this, because I'm gonna ask you a little bit more about that. But when I back when I left from the reservation as a cop, I came to the county and I needed to start a business to kind of offset. I took a $25,000 pay cut, so I needed to start this business to offset it.

00;09;07;23 - 00;09;27;06
Unknown
Plus, I kind of had the idea of running for sheriff. So and I would say, you know, I was talking today, I realized I didn't put it in my book. Ten seven. When your shift ends, your life begins. So this is a story that should have gone in the book. But I actually started a pest control company, and so I called it the bug police.

00;09;27;09 - 00;09;45;00
Unknown
And I took a little truck, and I made it look like a cop car. So it was black. And then the doors were white, and it freak people out all the time. So I go, I've been doing it for a while and I go to a, training. So every year you have to requalify, so you have to get all these training hours.

00;09;45;03 - 00;10;18;18
Unknown
So I go there and this other company from North Phoenix sees my truck and they have similar trucks, black with white. And they made the biggest stink. And they threatened to sue me because they said I was using their intellectual property that I and I had trademarked with you. No. We later trademarked because of this. This is what I learned right in the in the long run, after consulting with an attorney, I ended up having to change.

00;10;18;21 - 00;10;41;01
Unknown
I had to go completely black. I had to do away with the white and black, and it was the dumbest thing. And I was like, what? I was a cop long before I. I opened this pest control company. That's why I did it. But they had an argument that I had copied them. And so right in the end, the lawyer says you can fight it, but in but it's probably going to be cheaper for you to just change your truck.

00;10;41;01 - 00;11;00;20
Unknown
Yeah. And you know, like when you're in, when you are that entrepreneur and even when you were running law enforcement agencies, every dollar has a home, right? Like every dollar has a place that it needs to go. So what we try to do is to help people know where they should put those dollars. And so where do you invest in the intellectual property?

00;11;00;20 - 00;11;19;14
Unknown
That makes sense. When should you register your trademark or let that kind of thing right. And try to help people figure out when you can do a search or try to figure out these things so that you don't have these exact circumstances happen where you run into someone else who's out there in the market, and now you have a headache that you didn't necessarily need to have.

00;11;19;14 - 00;11;33;22
Unknown
If something else had been done to to look that up or to see if you can do it, I don't know how you would have avoided that one like you don't. There was a database that says these guys have black and white cars and they hadn't even trademarked it. Yeah, right. They hadn't trademarked it, but they were the first to be doing it.

00;11;33;22 - 00;11;53;06
Unknown
And so in essence, the argument was that they had intellectual property, right? That they had a right to it before I did, since we were in the same industry. And could I have won if I fought it? Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. But they, the cost would have been I would have ended up paying their legal fees. Most likely.

00;11;53;08 - 00;12;12;15
Unknown
Could have actually been, you know, there could have been a monetary, attachment, you know, pain and suffering, whatever you want to call it. And then I still would have had to have changed it. And so in the end, we had to change it to all black. And man, I was, I was mad or in a wet hand for a long time that I had to change it.

00;12;12;18 - 00;12;35;14
Unknown
So somebody out there now they're, they're getting ready to start a business. And they think they have a pretty unique idea. Do you recommend they get with you guys, start to figure out how do you trademark that or if it's a unique I want to talk about copyright because we have a copyright story, you and I. But let's stay in on trademark.

00;12;35;14 - 00;12;55;21
Unknown
Do you recommend that somebody get in and get with you guys and start to develop that trademark? Right. A couple questions. You can answer these. What does it take? How long does it take to get a trademark. Is it expensive and then honest. And then the last one is is there a time that the trademark can wear off right now?

00;12;55;21 - 00;13;16;25
Unknown
So yeah, with trademarks it's your story is pretty common. So people choose a name and then they start developing brands around it. It starts spending money on a website and whatever else. Like they start spending money developing this brand. And then someone says, hey, I got it. You don't have to stop using it. So that happens actually more often than not.

00;13;16;25 - 00;13;43;12
Unknown
So we always recommend at least doing the research. Right. So going out there, if you can search in the United States trademark database search and trade name database room, state to state, searching the Arizona Corporation Commission or other state Secretary of States and just seeing what's out there just and doing like a basic Google search and saying, all right, is this name out there and is it doing the same type of services, or is it providing the same type of goods that I'm using?

00;13;43;15 - 00;14;03;22
Unknown
If you don't find anything, usually you're pretty in the clear of using that name. So we always recommend doing those searches first before settling on a name and doing a domain name search. Right. So that's kind of a shortcut is doing a domain name search that you see if there's anything similar to it. Right. And if you could tie up as much.

00;14;03;22 - 00;14;21;12
Unknown
So you want a brand name that you could tie up everything around it. So with social media, with domain names and everything out there, you want everything associated. So when people search for your goods or services able to find you. So if you're using something that's not even related to your name or products and services, they're not going to find you.

00;14;21;19 - 00;14;37;02
Unknown
So you want to be able to use something that's and don't be descriptive too. So that's a common thing. So if you're going to be getting a trademark, don't describe the goods and services that you're on. So calling a pencil a pencil don't do stuff like that. You can say like a piece of wood with lead in it.

00;14;37;02 - 00;14;56;07
Unknown
Yeah a piece of wood with lead like a used to writing shark serpents or something like that, something that's not even related to it, but then use the descriptor after. Yeah. So that's you always one of the things that any of our members don't really need to know this. That's what the attorneys for. Right. But when choosing the name, they need to know this.

00;14;56;07 - 00;15;17;12
Unknown
Because when a lot of people come up with some type of name and they love the name, even though it describes exactly what they're doing, or someone else has it out there, now, they have to reach out there and have to change that name. So that's good to know at least. Hey, I need to not describe this or I need to search, do a basic search and see what's out there.

00;15;17;14 - 00;15;44;18
Unknown
And I mean, people like us, we're here to try to help you guide through that process a little bit. Right? So if you want to reach out to someone like an attorney, like we do a free consultation where you can come in and talk to us before we charge you any money. And so if you wanted to say, look, I'm thinking about using this name, we can let you know these kinds of things like, well, that might be descriptive or you might want to use something that's a little bit more distinctive than that.

00;15;44;20 - 00;16;02;03
Unknown
Use those kinds of things. If you're starting your business and you can reach out to those professionals and just ask them these initial questions, maybe they can give you some guidance before they start charging you a lot of money. And then, I mean, there is other things that we can do for them if they want to register the trademark or whatever else.

00;16;02;03 - 00;16;24;10
Unknown
But at least at the outset, we can give some guidance on those things and what they can think about as they're guiding their own journey as an entrepreneur. So trademarks, what does it typically cost to try to to get a trademark? Yeah, and this is something else too. If you develop multiple products, you kind of have to go through and trademark multiple like each product too, right?

00;16;24;11 - 00;16;40;14
Unknown
I mean, it's all about the brand. You want to build the brand, and if you have lots of products, you might want to have those being related so that they have kind of a house mark. So that all looks the same. So McDonald's right. Make chicken and McNuggets and everything else has got the the mark on it. That's how they built their brand.

00;16;40;14 - 00;16;59;17
Unknown
And you can do things like that if you have multiple products or not. But at least think through that kind of issue and what you want to do. And trademarks are all about really the the way that we protect trademarks in our country is really about the consumers. We don't want people being confused about the source of where their goods and services came from.

00;16;59;19 - 00;17;21;25
Unknown
And so it protects consumers from being confused. And the whole thing is about preventing consumers from thinking that the stuff they're buying comes from someplace else. Yeah. And so we have this system that's set up so that you can reserve it so that someone else isn't ripping off that goodwill that you've built up and using it for themselves.

00;17;21;27 - 00;17;43;23
Unknown
And we can do that. So what's the cost of a trademark typically? Well, so usually to get it filed there is a filing fee on that. It goes up all the time. The trademark office runs that up. There's it's and they charge it by class. So there are different classes that your trademark can fall into. One of the examples we use a lot is like Trojans right.

00;17;43;23 - 00;18;05;29
Unknown
So there is the prophylactic company. And then there's the USC Trojans. They're doing very different things. One is you know, university and they're playing football, but both are universal names, but both using that same name. But they're in different classes. They're different. And the logos fairly similar to. Yeah. But they're a distinct enough in what they do, even though those are related a little bit.

00;18;05;29 - 00;18;28;15
Unknown
Right. Like people at USC use a lot of Trojans, but they still are distinct enough that no one thinks that they're coming from the same thing when they buy their condom. They're not thinking that the University of Southern California is selling these, so as long as it's distinct enough, they're able to do that. But so when you do register your product, you have to register it in all of the different classes that it might fall into or that you're using it.

00;18;28;15 - 00;18;51;20
Unknown
So common one, if you're selling t shirts or hats or something that promote your own business, if you as a Mexican sheriff, you don't really sell hats and t shirts, but you do sell hats and t shirts, then you'd want to classify it in the class for whatever it is that you're doing. And then also in another class that's selling hats and t shirts or those other things to make sure that you get all of those things wrapped up.

00;18;51;20 - 00;19;13;06
Unknown
So the cost can depend on how many classes that you end up filing. And got it. That makes sense. 350 to 450 per class is just the file. It just went up this last year. So the government needs their fees. Yeah. Ballpark figure if you're looking at it somewhere around oh they got doge too much. Yeah. You're out taxes.

00;19;13;08 - 00;19;44;05
Unknown
So we got that. So does it have an expiration. So after because I've heard this. Yeah. You've heard the there's a gal that's on social media whose name was Sierra Mist. She realized that Pepsi had let their Sierra mist trademark lapse, which is why you don't see Sierra mist today. You see, starry. Yeah. Sorry. Or something. And so I think they had actually offered to settle with her because she now own the trademark on it.

00;19;44;05 - 00;19;47;04
Unknown
but it's whatever it was, she didn't take the offer.

00;19;47;04 - 00;19;52;04
Unknown
they ended up having to change their whole branding because they allowed that, trademark to expire.

00;19;52;04 - 00;20;08;25
Unknown
So that does happen, right? Yeah. So it does happen. Trademarks last for around five years. You have to pay what they call a section eight. So it's a maintenance fee. So the government wants their money to keep, keep up with it. So we've probably got a couple that we've got to file. So you, you file those section eight between your fifth and sixth years.

00;20;08;25 - 00;20;30;02
Unknown
If you don't file those, then it's become abandoned. But that doesn't mean your trademark goes away as long as you're using your trademark in commerce and people are able to associate your goods and services with it, you still got that trademark. You're just not federally registered, right? It's still your property, your rights or property. Yeah, exactly. And so that happens every fifth and sixth year, I think, between the ninth and 10th year.

00;20;30;02 - 00;20;50;11
Unknown
And then it goes every eight years after that. So and the trademarks can last indefinitely. Just think how long Coca-Cola has been going on for 100 plus years. So you can't as long as you're paying your fees and still using your mark in commerce trademarks can last forever. So just make sure you're hitting those fees and using it in commerce.

00;20;50;13 - 00;21;10;24
Unknown
That's what the attorneys for. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk copyrights because you guys do copyrights to get in. And and I know we have videos on the website that talk about copyrights. In a nutshell, what is a copyright cover? Yeah. So copyrights are any original work. So anything that you can put down in some type of tangible form.

00;21;10;24 - 00;21;36;29
Unknown
So for common ones are like artwork, photographs. We're social media nowadays. If you're producing some type of video that would be all covered under copyright. Where plagiarism. Yeah. Plagiarism. Like Mark and I have a good story about taking his own photo of himself and someone already copied, took the photo, was copyright it. And so what it was, was there was a photo.

00;21;37;00 - 00;21;56;28
Unknown
I'll let you tell him. Yeah, it was a photo of me in the Oval Office. Right. I had gone to the Oval Office. President Trump during his first term was signing, I don't know, a veto of a bill or. And we were there with a bunch of different people, and there's a picture of me, shaking. I think President Trump's parents were in the white House.

00;21;56;28 - 00;22;16;00
Unknown
And so I took that picture, put it up on my website, didn't think anything of it. Then I started getting these nasty grams from an attorney, which I ignored for a while. Or they basically were saying, hey, I was violating, copyright, right? Which I thought, that's stupid. How do you know at the time that, yeah, whoever took the photograph.

00;22;16;00 - 00;22;37;07
Unknown
So I ignored it, ignored it, and then finally I thought, okay, which one is it? So they actually sent a, list. Show me which picture it was, so I took it down. Then I kept getting the nasty grams and I said, hey, I took it down. They said, no, that's one piece of it you need to pay us for using the picture of the first right?

00;22;37;10 - 00;22;55;06
Unknown
And, so I called Bert and I was like, hey, this is stupid, right? I don't have to do this. Right. And did I have to do it? Yeah, yeah. So we got him actually talked down from what they were one like 4 or 5 grand. Yeah. It was like 4 or 5 grand. And we got him talked down to like 800 or 700 or I can't remember.

00;22;55;06 - 00;23;14;02
Unknown
But yeah, I feel like it was that or like 1800, but whatever it was, it was way it was way more. It was way down thanks to Bert. Way more than you want, but way more than I thought. I needed to pay for a picture that was on the open source of the internet, but he had a court he had copyrighted.

00;23;14;06 - 00;23;36;04
Unknown
What do you think? He copyrighted it after I put it up on the website. Do you think he in it? Well, if you take the picture and it's yours, the copyright automatically attaches itself to that. Yeah. And this is actually important. So what they did is they registered it right away with the Copyright office. And that gives them options on what are called statutory damage.

00;23;36;04 - 00;23;53;06
Unknown
It raises the risk for you. People end up stealing it. Their damages rewards can go way up like the amount that you would have to pay if they sued it, and one goes up if they have it registered. So for a lot of people, it's their business model. They'll take a ton of these photos. They'll buy a lot of publicly available photos.

00;23;53;06 - 00;24;14;24
Unknown
They will register them at the copyright office. And then they will have an algorithm that just continually searches for those things. And if anyone uses it, those nasty Grammys go out and they only pay for it because they have those things registered, they have additional damages that they can bring against you, and then they're coming. And it was a picture of me, of you like, it's a picture of me.

00;24;14;27 - 00;24;31;14
Unknown
And I got fined for using a picture of me. Right. Good example for where like when copyright attaches. So as we're creating this, by the way, I forgot to put that in the book too. That should have gone in the book. Yeah. And you can copyright it. Hey, listen, I had to write that in a very short amount of time, so yeah, I should have put that in there.

00;24;31;14 - 00;24;53;19
Unknown
Like what? The video that, like blog post. The video is your book. As soon as you put that down in tangible form, copyright automatically attaches itself. You don't have to file it to enforce it. You got to file it. So what do I do? Like I have, I wrote two books. There is a, a, it's a, generic copy of my first book on Amazon.

00;24;53;21 - 00;25;17;07
Unknown
Can I sue them? Yeah. Well, there's a generic copy, and they're taking your copyrighted work. It's called, like, I don't know, traditional, I'll show you. There's actually a couple different versions of it. It's my book that they have changed the cover on and changed the title to. But it's my content. Yeah, that's copyright infringement. Well, we need to talk after this.

00;25;17;07 - 00;25;39;11
Unknown
Yeah, well, I might be able to get some dough. Well, and actually for Amazon, a lot of these sites like Amazon that have that are a platform for these sorts of things. They have rules on how they can take that stuff down. But you'll get they'll get it. No, but listen, I'm still a little stung for paying for a picture of me, so I feel like it's more than just taking it down now.

00;25;39;11 - 00;25;56;10
Unknown
Now you pay me for. Yeah, yeah. Like there needs to be some payment on that. Yeah, exactly. Oh, this is good. This is good. Well, and so you can increase the damages that they might have to owe you if you register that copyright. And if you publish the book, publishers will make you do that.

00;25;56;10 - 00;26;06;10
Unknown
But if so, when I do the book and it says in there I believe it's copyrighted, but it's not really copyright because we didn't go there.

00;26;06;10 - 00;26;25;10
Unknown
Yeah. What matters is you go to the copyright office, you pay them your $65 and you upload the thing and then it has it read it. So we should copyright all three in my book. We do. But either way, it's my intellectual property. You still own it. But before we go after them and get those extra damages, we should register it and can get that extra protection.

00;26;25;10 - 00;26;46;26
Unknown
Okay, let's do that ASAP. Yeah, right. Okay. Do it. Good. See, like I'll keep you posted on what happens here. We'll have to do a follow up on this. See if we if we got out anything out of it. As minimum we need to keep them from selling their book online. Yeah. My book. Yeah. Your book. Yeah. I already got I already got snookered once with the picture once.

00;26;46;26 - 00;27;07;28
Unknown
Right. Yeah. Okay. So copyrights, how long is a copyright good for. Was it 70 years plus life? The life of the author plus. Oh, so this ones. So it all based movies based upon Disney actually. So Walt Disney they kept updating it. Now it's like for the author plus seven. So is this why people can remake sons The Art of War?

00;27;08;00 - 00;27;27;04
Unknown
All those other books they can rip, so they go through and publish these books for next to nothing, because it didn't cost them anything, because the copyrights up where I think Mickey's copyright, it was all over the news. It's just ran up. Yeah, it's ran out and they can't renew it. No. Done done. Well. So and it the way that that works is from the original publication.

00;27;27;04 - 00;27;49;12
Unknown
Right. So the initial cartoon of Mickey, the one where he's on that steamboat, right. The way he looks then that copyright just expired. They couldn't, like, lobby Congress to extend it anymore. Like the reason we have the length we have is today. A lot of people have lobbied Congress to get those to extend that stuff from going into the public domain.

00;27;49;15 - 00;28;16;07
Unknown
That initial steamboat, Mickey, is now in the public domain, but more recent, Mickey's right that have maybe changed is on them. Copyrights can be different for though, so you still have to be careful about what you get. Son too. Thankfully, he's been dead a long time, so that's. Well, yeah. Into the public domain. We can do whatever we want and stuff like that, but you know, another one that was always interesting to me and I learned this years ago was, Bruce Buffer.

00;28;16;07 - 00;28;32;17
Unknown
I might have to we bleep this out right now because I think he has a pretty strong copyright on that. Like if you say it, you got to pay him. You can't say in that tone. You know the you know I want to say yeah, but yeah, don't say it and I don't because I might already get the book.

00;28;32;20 - 00;28;57;20
Unknown
But I mean, you might get another letter, I might, I might add another letter. So let's talk about so copyrights aren't that expensive. No, they're pretty cheap. $65 with the United States Copyright Office. And that's just for the filing fee. And it's pretty straightforward for the most part to file those. Okay. When people call us to ask us to do it, like we have a price that we'll give them to do it, but we usually just say, you can do that yourself.

00;28;57;20 - 00;29;20;09
Unknown
Take your 65 bucks and go to the copyright office and just upload my book. That thing called back. Okay. Well, we'll talk about that after. Yeah. Okay. Patents like, you're an engineer. I know we've somewhere around here, I feel like I have one year. Little things. I do, oh, yeah. Just to give you an example, bird is an engineer.

00;29;20;09 - 00;29;40;23
Unknown
And so here's one of his things here. It's like a little, it's like where you keep your cocaine and stuff. Coke, anything that you want. Actually. No. Yeah. In there. Yeah. This one actually has. This is for it's got a little rollerball on it. So you can put, like, peppermint oil or whatever on it. Yeah. Essential oils, fragrances, you name it, stores all sorts of stuff.

00;29;40;23 - 00;30;02;15
Unknown
But you take their take pills and they actually store it. I've talked to a lot of people that store pills in it, but but you've patented this patent. Another version of that, the wallaby file, the one on that right now. So it's going through the process. But yeah, I have a patent on another type. So a patent basically is saying you can't produce anything for 20 years.

00;30;02;15 - 00;30;26;23
Unknown
Yeah. Is it similar or exactly similar. That's a great question. Yeah. Let's get your clerk. I'll let you talk. So the way the patents work and the reason why they're so complex. Right. And a lot of what the value added is that the lawyers put in there, you define what the invention is in your patent application. And so there's always a part at the end of the patent application there's a part called the claims.

00;30;27;00 - 00;30;47;10
Unknown
And they're impossible to read. They're the English gets really dense in them. And that's where you define specifically what it is that your invention is that you can stop other people from doing. And so we try to draft those as broadly as possible, so that anything that's close to what your idea is would be an infringing act, and you can go and stop that.

00;30;47;12 - 00;31;09;08
Unknown
But it has to specifically exactly fit what it is that we describe in our claims for the patent in order to be infringing. So we draft them so that it covers as much stuff as possible, but it has to exactly fit our description in order to be considered infringing. Okay. Yeah. Right. So patents are a little bit more expensive probably.

00;31;09;08 - 00;31;31;02
Unknown
Yeah. Are they time consuming to get the patent on it. Very very. Yeah. So the current wait time I think the the median wait time is around 20 months before they look at it. So once you file the application it will sit in line to get looked at for 20 months before they look at it the first time, the most frequent government.

00;31;31;02 - 00;31;49;23
Unknown
Yeah. And then we'll get a rejection on the first one. Almost every time. The first office action is usually a rejection. And we can talk about that. We almost draft it so that we do get rejected the first time. We want to be able to make sure that it's as broad as possible. And to do that, we have some back and forth with the patent office to get the claims.

00;31;49;23 - 00;32;20;20
Unknown
In a situation where we can protect as much of the waterfront of what is possibly going on with that product as possible. And but you can sell your product without it. You just don't have the patent on that roll. Right? That's why you see so many things to say and patent pending. Yeah. You all have people that leave patent pending on their for years, like even after the patents either expired or the application went abandoned, they just leave it on there because it costs more to change the molds with the patent pending on their than to take them off.

00;32;20;20 - 00;32;44;19
Unknown
So yeah. So even though they have the pattern they'll say patent pending, right. Yeah. Just because it's expensive I've seen stuff that patents have been expired for years and it still says patented on it. So patents last 20 years, but you still have to pay maintenance fees because the government wants their money. Right. So every three and a half, seven and a half and then 11.5 years, I think it is you got to pay more money to keep your patent.

00;32;44;22 - 00;33;15;20
Unknown
So how long the patents have a lifespan because I see that it's pharmaceuticals or whatever. They patent it. But then the patent wears off. And then now companies can come in and 20 years. That's why when you see any of these generic pills come out, it's 20 years, 20 years from the 25 to 20 years. Just get after it and make some dough right before other people said, okay, that's when when you see all these generic pills come out and patterns expire, that's when the cost of those pills drop big time because they're all generic.

00;33;15;23 - 00;33;34;17
Unknown
Let's talk businesses. All right. So if you anybody on the website probably seen you guys talking about trade names, this and that, not to dive into too much, but, a trade name just it's whatever you think you're going to call, but you don't actually have to have an LLC or anything. You can just have your trade name.

00;33;34;19 - 00;33;59;27
Unknown
That's considered one thing, like a sole proprietorship, right? So its trade name is just what your business is called or your products called sole proprietorship. You file those with the secretary of state, usually whatever state you're in, and that just protects your name. But we always recommend doing an LLC right. And that's going to be a DBA. A lot of times you'll go to the bank and they don't set up an actual account for, say, ten seven, right?

00;33;59;28 - 00;34;21;22
Unknown
They set up a DBA account. So Mark Lamm DBA yeah. 1007 yeah, but they're easy to set up. It's really easy. It still works as a business account, right? You know, you're getting taxed as a sole proprietorship. So there's ways but it's easy because when you do your taxes it's a 1040. It's just you add it right into your roll right in tax.

00;34;21;26 - 00;34;42;10
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Or with an LLC or if there's some ways of structuring and an LLC means what limited liability company. Yeah there's ways of structuring. And I talked to a CPA professional about this. We're not CPAs but there's ways of structuring it where you could save money on taxes. Yeah. For example, my LLC, I started off as just a normal LLC.

00;34;42;12 - 00;35;05;06
Unknown
Then I changed it to an S Corp. Right. Because there's tax advantages. Exactly. When you have employees all that. So you how many members do you need for an LLC. One one member. Can it be a foreign entity. Yeah. So you can file in. If you say you live in Utah and you file in Arizona, let's say I live in Panama.

00;35;05;06 - 00;35;24;27
Unknown
Yeah. I say you live in Panama. You can still file in Arizona as a foreign entity and be an LLC in Arizona. Yeah. So you be a company in Panama or a company. And that's how these companies from China or whatever come in here and do business. Right. And then they set up an LLC, which is owned by a company that is or wherever they're at, right?

00;35;24;29 - 00;35;46;06
Unknown
Yeah. Or the Cayman Islands or whatever. Yeah. That's a whole nother video with one. Yeah. That's, that's oh, that's for the tax people. Yeah. I mean the one wrinkle there because you mentioned S Corp, an S Corp cannot have a foreign member. Right. So someone who's from outside of good clarification. So yeah. But anything if it's not an S Corp.

00;35;46;07 - 00;36;03;22
Unknown
Yeah. But the S Corp is for the taxes tax purposes, right. When it's a foreign company there are usually pass through that LLC just as a pass pass through to the to the foreign corporations. Yeah. Like I said, that's a whole nother thing. We're not going to get into that. But I want to ask so is is it.

00;36;03;22 - 00;36;29;28
Unknown
And then the LLC is by far would you say is the best companies that are best business structure they've designed? I mean, lawmakers created LLCs to make it easy to open a business, and they've made them really flexible. They've made them easy to use. Different states are different in how like easy or difficult they are to use, but they are usually, with some very minor exceptions, the best way to go.

00;36;30;06 - 00;36;51;17
Unknown
And you can always convert your LLC into a corporation later. If you've got investors coming in who want you to, do you want to take it public or. Yeah, but if you're just ready to get up and get going, do now. But if you're to the point where you're taking an LLC to a corporation, you've already you're business businesses, you're making money and you have people that will help you do that.

00;36;51;19 - 00;37;23;26
Unknown
You you've paid some lawyers some money. You pay some lawyers and some financial people. And you have you have a CEO and CFOs and all that junk, too. So, LLC, limited liability company. So really it's about reducing liability and risk as much as possible. That's right. So if you've got a company and someone slips and falls outside of your company and you have to pay them a big payout and they come after you, they can only get the assets of the company, not your home or any of the other assets in your personal bank account.

00;37;23;27 - 00;37;40;13
Unknown
They can only come after the assets of the company. So for any of them out there, just because you have one LLC doesn't mean you can't have a whole myriad of LLC. And like a lot of these companies, if you take a look at the rental car companies, they will have the cars will actually be held in holding companies.

00;37;40;15 - 00;38;03;13
Unknown
Right. And so if there's a major problem with one of those, and they can only get what that holding company has, right, right. It's common in real estate too. So if you're you have multiple properties in real estate it's common to have one property in one LLC. So that way is something happens with that property. They can't go after all the other properties that you own.

00;38;03;15 - 00;38;21;05
Unknown
That's so there's ways of structuring it where it helps limit liability for your personal assets and for your business assets for other businesses. But you guys are the IP accelerate. You guys help people get the right structure, right? They know. And that's what we do at ten seven as we walk through kind of figure out what is it you're trying to do?

00;38;21;05 - 00;38;38;20
Unknown
What kind of liability do you have all of those things and then help you form the right, right business structure? Yeah. That's what we're going to help with. The ten seven is make sure that they're set up correctly and that the business structure is set up correctly. That way they're protected. So you guys have been business for several years.

00;38;38;20 - 00;39;00;18
Unknown
What would you say is one of the hard lessons you've had to learn? Clarke. What has been one of the hard lessons you learned from a business mistake you made? Well, so like I, I'm kind of on I'm kind of. I was going to say you were taking so long. I was like, how many businesses know? Hey, you know, like me, I could list like one, two, three, four, five.

00;39;00;20 - 00;39;20;25
Unknown
I got a ton of them. Dinham. Yeah. So stay with us. Yes, but thank you for telling you. Don't make mistakes. Never. It's always perfect. The people that. The one that I think was the most is to go be careful about the people that you go into business with and make sure at the outset that everyone's expectations are clear.

00;39;20;28 - 00;39;37;05
Unknown
So that just expectations are clear, that you know what you're doing as you get into it. One of the biggest things that people run into, is that they'll come in, they think they're doing one thing and then those expectations changed, and now you're pissed off and you hate each other, and now you're starting to fight about things.

00;39;37;05 - 00;39;57;19
Unknown
And that's what gets expensive is when people get stupid and they get stupid when they're mad. And the mad when their expectations have changed. So if you can come in and just be upfront with everyone, be honest with everyone, let everyone know what they're doing. That heads off a lot of problems before anything else burn. I used to have a third partner, and a guy that we like.

00;39;57;19 - 00;40;22;06
Unknown
Right. Like the we enjoy that had to, like, separate from us. And it was it was a less thing. Good thing for our business, to have that happen even with someone that that, you know, is someone that we enjoy, like, and so if you start hating each other, these can go bad real quick. I'm glad you brought that up, because, you know, in the book ten seven, I talk about the woes of partnerships.

00;40;22;08 - 00;40;42;25
Unknown
You know, partnerships are tough. I know you guys are in a partnership, but I would say that every partnership I've had is not really I wouldn't they just don't. And they're just not great. They don't end well. Especially if you start to have a tremendous amount of success, you start to really see people's good and bad sides start to come out.

00;40;42;27 - 00;41;06;09
Unknown
Greed can play a part in it. And so I yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I know you guys are in a partnership, so I'm not going to back on it too much. But and I'd say partnerships with family or even I think it's different with your kids and your wife. But I think partnerships with siblings, cousins, all that stuff starts to get real difficult once those interests start to divert.

00;41;06;13 - 00;41;31;02
Unknown
Right then you can start having some real discussion. Yeah. Some disagreements. Come on. Yeah yeah, yeah. That happens all the time within partnerships. I mean different things like especially with family. So especially if once went in way more work than another or doing something that someone else doesn't like, you're always going to butt heads. So setting like Clark says, setting those expectations out initially from the get go, that's the best way to do it if you're going to have a partner.

00;41;31;04 - 00;41;54;23
Unknown
So Bert, what's yours? Have too many to list one. That kind of is a caveat for people. People at, you know, something that people can learn from, like, hey, because I had knowledge outside the law firm, I have a couple startups or I've had a couple startups. So that especially with like wallaby and a few others, and with the wallaby, be careful.

00;41;54;23 - 00;42;18;15
Unknown
Like one of the ones I've had recently is be careful who you bring in to help, not just with like partnerships could bring in to help you as a potential investor, as a potential supplier, even as an employer employee. Make sure that you vet them in a way that you could actually know who they are and what they stand for.

00;42;18;18 - 00;42;46;16
Unknown
The guy that we brought in for the wallaby turned out to be not the guy that we thought he was. And, it's a story for another time, but he we luckily didn't give him any equity in the business or anything like that. And we're able just to kind of, like, ignore him and push him out instead of actually having to go through any type of lawsuit or anything like that to get him out, because we were careful in the way that we structure the business.

00;42;46;16 - 00;43;10;25
Unknown
So if you're going to bring back to say this. Yeah, so it's about defining roles and expectation expectations. And if you're bringing someone in, don't just hand over a bunch of equity to them, if especially if they're late to the game, set up certain protections in place. There's ways of doing it contractually that you're able to have cliffs and have, which means like so he said cliffs.

00;43;10;28 - 00;43;34;14
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Clark knows all that was very that was very insensitive of you and being able to like okay claw back. So yeah he's had PTSD clawback different equity from them if they're not doing their part in the business. So luckily with this guy, we didn't give him anything besides a fictitious business that we never formed because I want him to form and put in money and he never would.

00;43;34;16 - 00;43;51;13
Unknown
And, so that's what I thought about it, like long and hard on how I should bring him in. And that's the way he did it. And luckily he never fought in the business. So he has a piece of nothing. Yeah. So be very careful on who you bring in and who you're trusting with your baby. Right. So your business is your baby.

00;43;51;13 - 00;44;13;27
Unknown
It's the one that you're trying to nurture and grow. And eventually, share with everyone around you. And you don't want to just trust it to anyone besides people that you trust. Really trust, man, you bringing that up? There's like 3 or 4 different stories I wish I would have put in the book. The book's already on way to production out, so the sequel will come out.

00;44;13;27 - 00;44;38;09
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, the sequel is all the stories I forgot to put. Right, right. So coming back to sticking with you, Burt, what is the what do you think are some of the things you've learned in life that are actually keys to success in business? So things I've learned probably the most in life is hard work, right? You're not gonna get anywhere in life without putting in the work.

00;44;38;12 - 00;44;57;21
Unknown
And, putting just even with my kids. So I got five kids, and I tried to teach them. Don't look at what everyone else is doing. Look at what you're doing. So put in the work. And if you see someone else putting in 100%, you do have 110% put in more work than anyone else. And that's what's going to help you become successful in life.

00;44;57;23 - 00;45;21;04
Unknown
Just make sure you're you're not looking at anyone. Don't compare yourself and put in the work. So that's really where I've kind of like put myself is I look at what I have, what I'm doing, and what everyone else is doing, and I'm going to put in as much work as I can to become successful, no matter what work in ten, 15, 20 hours a day, that's what it's going to take.

00;45;21;07 - 00;45;41;00
Unknown
So that's really what I like to stress to my kids, at least as well nowadays. Kids, they don't. They know there's no work ethic. And so if you are a hard worker, you will automatically rise to the task. Then it's a matter of what do you want to dedicate your hard work to be successful? But if you're a hard worker, you're automatically going to be leaps and bounds better than everybody else, right?

00;45;41;00 - 00;45;59;08
Unknown
Exactly. Not every kid learns that, especially when I'm in my family, there's a few kids are still learning. But my daughter, my second daughter, she's like, she wants to earn the money, she wants to put in the hard work. And she's seen that. Like even when people have asked her, what do you appreciate about your parents? And they're she's like, they're dang hard workers.

00;45;59;08 - 00;46;21;15
Unknown
They put in the time. So we have the examples getting over to a few of the kids. I liked it quite well, so I always wear a helmet when you're Canyoneering first, so did you slip and fall or were you just really quick? Quickly? Right. So we were rappelling. We were in Zion National Park, and there's a canyon there.

00;46;21;15 - 00;46;40;03
Unknown
It's called Ballooning Canyon, and it's, you high propel, high propel, high propel. And we were in the fifth. There's nine repairs total of this. Listening. We're on the fifth rappelling. We're setting up in the hardest place to get to the heart in the middle. Right. This remote, difficult place to get in. And cell service is just a is a is a rumor at that point there.

00;46;40;03 - 00;47;01;09
Unknown
There's no cell service at that point. No and no Starlink, no Starlink, not at that. No, it didn't even exist. This was about ten years ago. 12 years ago now. And so we're setting up to do the repel. I saw something that looked like a good photo. And so I started walking over there. I thought I had, like a goat trail that to go on, and it was just like, there's a striation in the rocks for a reason.

00;47;01;09 - 00;47;18;21
Unknown
There was no goat trail. And so I go a little ways. My feet start to feel a little sketchy. I know that I'm on a slope that is pretty bad, and I turn around to start coming back at. My feet just slipped out from under me, so I slipped. I slid about 20ft, hit a cliff edge, fell about 80, and then it was sand at the bottom.

00;47;18;21 - 00;47;34;21
Unknown
That's how I survived. So stuck down there. Yeah. And then I was with people. Were you conscious people? Not at first. Right. So for a couple minutes, I was out. My wife was there. She watched me fall. And so there were a couple minutes of silence that were pretty scary for her. But then I woke up.

00;47;34;21 - 00;47;57;01
Unknown
I can I have some memories from being at the bottom there. For. And we were there. I'll be honest with you, the helmet is wearing you for protection at that point. Yeah, yeah. Well, so. And. Yeah, I'll show you a picture like you can see. My head was pretty dented. Like I smashed all the cap, the sinuses in my head, and they had my helmet on a wall at Zion National Park for a little while on like their.

00;47;57;01 - 00;48;15;21
Unknown
This saves lives. They had. Why are you wearing this flag? Yeah. Yeah. And it was there because it saved my life, you know, like it really? Yeah. It was wearing me for protection. But I hit that thing pretty hard and it was pretty crushed. And. Yeah. Did you survive it? I, I think so, unless this is all, like, a big green.

00;48;15;24 - 00;48;38;02
Unknown
I made it out. And because, really dedicated veteran, like the Air Force came and got me, it was those pair of rescue guys that normally are doing combat rescues that the county wasn't going to come get me. The state wasn't going to come get me. There was a storm coming in. It was a narrow canyon. But those, you know, there's some badass people in our military that will risk their lives to save others.

00;48;38;02 - 00;49;00;11
Unknown
And they came and they risked their lives and saved mine. And that's the only reason I'm here. So now you're you're you got to do something with your life. That's it. Yeah. And I echo what Bert said, that you've got to be deliberate in what you're doing. Like you work hard and stuff doesn't just happen to make you a success.

00;49;00;13 - 00;49;19;09
Unknown
Even people that are, like, sudden successes, they work hard to get there. And they guided themselves there, like you were saying, when you were, when you were, just on the police force, you had an idea that you wanted to run for sheriff and you started angling yourself towards that. And that brought a lot of this.

00;49;19;12 - 00;49;43;01
Unknown
And the idea that I had was in 2011. I started running in 2015, got elected in 2016, took office in 2017. So you're talking about five, six years and and and that might even be a short end goal for some people who have, you know, long term. But yeah, it's not easy. There was a lot of work in between there, a lot of sacrifice, a lot of bad ups and downs.

00;49;43;04 - 00;50;01;07
Unknown
Like, I love the stories. When you hear about what people went through to be successful. Yeah, because we only look at him and go, man, that got so lucky. He's got all that money and this bat, you know, realize they work their butts off and they had a lot of, a lot of successes and failures along the way to get to work hard.

00;50;01;07 - 00;50;04;28
Unknown
Man. They.

00;50;05;00 - 00;50;23;25
Unknown
You know, and, but you've got to you've got to have something that you're working for. And in your life and in your business, you can't just show up and wait not to die. There's something that we we want to have done here before we go. I love that too, because in my book ten seven, we talk a lot about purpose.

00;50;23;29 - 00;50;43;22
Unknown
Yeah. And that's kind of what you're hitting on. And that's what ten seven is about. And sadly I brought up the statistic that, you know, the average cop dies within five years of retirement. And veterans not as much because a lot of veterans are in for 3 or 4 years. And then they're out where the average cop's 20, 25 years.

00;50;43;24 - 00;51;09;06
Unknown
And it is a it's a startling, statistic that basically says you've got to find purpose. I think that's really what drives life. I knew a guy that was I worked on a dairy and he was 90 something years old. Man, he was tough to work with, is tough to work with. And every year he'd be like, well, the good Lord will be just excuse me this year, I hope this is my last year.

00;51;09;09 - 00;51;31;10
Unknown
And I'd be like, me too. Yeah, but, not that you wish it on anybody, but he lived. And then I left and he was still there. And it wasn't until that they actually sold the business. And then he no longer had anything. I think he probably died within six months. And so its purpose, purpose driven life. And I think that's what you're saying.

00;51;31;13 - 00;51;54;20
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I like that so. Well, man, it's been good. I know we're gonna probably end up doing this again. Yeah. As we start to really roll out and we get more and more people signing up and, and more and more questions and, you know, you know, we'd love to have you guys back and talk more about all the, the do's and don'ts and the what ifs and what should BS and all of those things.

00;51;54;22 - 00;52;12;25
Unknown
But we appreciate you guys expertise more than anything. I appreciate you guys being willing to be a part of ten seven, and I'm sure the members do as well. So thank you guys for, jumping on with me today and anything. Any parting words? Wear elements. Wear your helmet. Yeah. Where are your helmet? Oh, thanks for having us.

00;52;12;25 - 00;52;34;26
Unknown
We really appreciate it. We look forward to being a part of ten seven and helping first responders and military. We love what you what you've done and what the first responders and has done for us. And when you're setting up your business and when you're taking advantage of your time to call the attorney and talk through some some questions you might have, these are going to be primarily the guys you're going to be talking to.

00;52;34;26 - 00;52;53;21
Unknown
So, right. We're small law firm, man. It's me and Burt. You're not going to talk to the secretary. We're it. Which is why I wanted you guys part of this. Because I think that that personal touch. Yeah, the personal touch of being able to connect with somebody, get answers right away. Especially in this day and age where you feel like you never have more places.

00;52;53;21 - 00;53;11;18
Unknown
Don't even have their phone number listed on their email. So all right, guys, well, thank you so much. And thank you everybody for tuning in. Thanks for being a member of ten seven. If you're already a member, if you're not, make sure you go to go ten 7.com. Sign up today. Let's get you set up with LLC.

00;53;11;18 - 00;53;31;24
Unknown
Let's get you set up with Burt and Clark and figuring out the next step for having success in your, in whether you're retired or still on the job, we want to make sure that you're successful getting the business structure you need in place. And, we're excited to help you here. Ten seven. So God bless everybody. Make sure you check out the book as well.

00;53;31;26 - 00;53;50;05
Unknown
Ten seven when your shift ends and your life begins, don't give me any critique on it. Listen, I understand I'm no author, okay? I'm just trying to do the best I can and, share a little knowledge that I have. So God bless everybody. And thanks for tuning in to another episode of ten seven with American Sheriff.

00;53;50;05 - 00;53;52;07
Unknown
God bless.