Hi Paige.

Thank you so much for coming on.

Thanks for having me.

I'm so excited to talk to you.

I was just saying before we started

recording that I think I first saw you

on, I wanna say it was probably TikTok

or something and you stitched Dave

Ramsey and I love like this feminist

movement where we were just calling out

people that maybe say things that are

a little harmful to, especially when

we talk about moms and the mother load.

And I always tend to

like just jump right in.

But can we talk a little

bit about what that was?

I kinda wanna talk about.

Your platform and how that's

kind of like grown over the years

and what you kind of focus on?

yeah,

sure.

Yeah, so that video in particular

was right up my alley because I talk

a lot about childcare and he was

talking about the cost of childcare.

And so for context, I create content

and I started out talking about

just being a working mother and.

part of that conversation is logistics.

How do I make it work?

How much do I pay for daycare?

What does our schedule look like?

Just all of those things.

And I was just sharing my lived

experience of motherhood, and the

very first time I went viral on TikTok

was talking about how much I pay for

daycare, because people were just.

Astonished at how expensive it is, and,

didn't even believe me transparently.

A lot of people were

like, that's not real.

And so I spend a lot of time bringing

awareness to the childcare crisis

because this is something that is

happening to most people in our

country, like most people and parents

are experiencing, the high cost of

childcare and the impacts of that.

And so.

When I saw the video of Dave

Ramsey saying $25,000 a year for

childcare, like, that's not real.

I felt like I had to respond

because it is very real.

It is the lived experience of

many, many families, and for

me, he's a financial expert.

He should understand the finances

of the people he's speaking to and

the fact that this is the reality

for most people in our country.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I think when.

You get to a certain, I don't

know, I would say platform of

his, He can't really relate to the

common person, the common family.

and so I feel like, I feel like

your content is so necessary because

so many moms might go in and see

something like his, and it's like,

oh wait, I shouldn't be paying this.

Or like, this isn't normal, but

like we can't relate to someone like

that, that actually is not in it.

Right.

Totally.

Yeah.

I think first and foremost, I think

he's of a different generation,

and so childcare looks different

today than it did even 10 years ago.

And so if you haven't been a

parent to young children in a

very long time, you don't know

the realities of the cost, right?

So I think in that way he's out of touch.

But it is his job to be in touch

with what the average experience

is of parents in our country,

especially if he's giving out.

Financial advice, but I also think just

in general, Dave has a very specific

idea of what it should look like, right?

he had a stay at home partner.

He, personally likes that, right?

Like that idea of, women providing

that childcare, or at least he

insinuates that in some of his content.

And, Yeah.

You know, I just think he has a

very specific platform and form of

advice that he gives, and I just

felt like in that instance, you

know, I'm not a financial expert.

I don't pretend to be, but in

that instance, he was saying

something that I felt like was so

outlandish and out of touch that

it had to be addressed in some way.

So I know I kinda like jumped the gun

right into that, conversation that I saw.

Sure.

But

can you tell everyone a little bit more

about what you post about on your page,

your content, and what you feel your

mission has become, with your posting?

Sure.

So yeah, I talk a lot about being a

working mother and the realities of

what modern marriage and motherhood

look like specifically for women.

I will say my following on all

platforms is 99% women, sometimes 98.

You know, it fluctuates.

Mm-hmm.

But it's mostly women because

my content for them is relatable

and it's something that they,

understand and see themselves in.

I would say the thing that

most people know me for is.

Speaking about the mental load

specifically as it relates to motherhood,

but I speak about it in general as well.

Mm-hmm.

And.

My goal with that conversation is to help

women articulate what's happening in their

lives so they can better, process that

with their partner, find equity at home,

and hopefully in the workplace as well.

And as part of that mission, I

also talk about systemic things

like lack of pay, parental leave,

lack of affordable childcare.

the motherhood penalty in the workplace.

So my overarching goal is to

help women advocate for gender

equity in all facets of life.

So not, being the default

parent by default, right?

All of these things that I think as a

society have been very normal for very

long, but are leading women to feel burnt

out and exhausted, and I do that through.

Sharing my own experience, but

also just thought leadership

on these topics in general.

Yeah, I love that.

It's so powerful and it's funny, I

mention it time and time again, but

like before doing all of this, I worked

for a mommy brand and ironically it

was before I had my daughter and but

with that, it was, I heard firsthand

stories from moms, like struggling to

go back to work, having to go back to

work after six weeks or unpaid leave.

And when I started kinda like digging

into it, I was like, this is outrageous.

Like it's, we're in a country

where they want us to have more

kids, but then there's no support

when you do have those kids.

so what do you think are the biggest like.

Things like work.

I mean, workplaces is one thing.

what can workplaces do?

What can we do as a society to kind of

like raise awareness to all this stuff?

I think talking about it first

and foremost is really important,

bringing these topics up.

You know, the things I've mentioned,

childcare, paid parental leave.

We often view these as women's issues,

when in reality they're a family issue.

They should be impacting anyone who

is a parent, not just women, but women

are the ones that disproportionately

take on this work, right?

So if there's no

childcare, who stays home.

Typically mom

who adjust their career,

typically mom,

right?

And so that's just a societal expectation.

And then sometimes people will

point to the fact that, well,

oh, the husband makes more money.

And that just points the wage gap, right?

It's just like, it's this kinda

like chicken and egg thing, right?

We're struggling at home, we're

struggling in the workplace, and

they're really tied together.

And so I think on an individual level.

I like to tell people

this is not a failure.

Like if you've ended up in a position

where you're burnt out and exhausted

and you're struggling with the mental

load and your career has taken a hit due

to childcare or whatever it might be.

You're not alone in that.

That's not a personal failure, that's

a systemic failure across the board.

But also there's certain things that

are within our control that we can do.

And so we can't fix all the systems

at one time, but we can do some

things, which is, for example, if your

husband has access to paid parental

leave, he should be taking it.

Mm-hmm.

So many men don't.

So many men have access and they

don't take it, and they don't take it.

Because they're afraid it's gonna

hurt their career, which ultimately

just hurts women's careers more

and hurts their partners and

their baby and all of the things.

And so, we need men to be doing that.

We need, policies that support

parents in the workplace.

So adequate sick time, adequate

paid leave, flexible work schedules.

we need to stop these return

to office mandates that

disproportionately impact women, right?

Like there's all these things,

but also within our homes.

One of the reasons I suggest paid parental

leave not suggest I strongly encourage,

is because when men take it, they're more

likely to carry that mental load with

their partner from the beginning and.

The mental load disparity happens

very, very early on, typically

even before you have kids.

I think about, when my husband and I were

in our twenties and we were going to a

million weddings, I always bought the

gift and the card and booked the hotel

and coordinated all the things, and he was

there, but I was coordinating it, right?

Like I carried that mental load.

It wasn't super heavy until we had

kids, and so being aware of these

dynamics in advance and talking about

them with your partner, putting systems

in place to avoid one person carrying

too much, that's something we can

do, and there's tools to do that.

I love that.

Yeah.

I feel like it's such an

important conversation

that a lot of families either don't

have or don't know they should or

can have them because it's just,

that's the way it was when I grew up.

Or my dad went to work, my mom was home.

So I just thought that's how it went.

and I think, like I said, with working at

the mom brand, I was able to see like, ah.

I don't want that when I go

through postpartum, I need my part.

It was like, have your partner

support you, get your partner

involved in the process.

Because so many women would like

tell me like, oh, my husband wasn't

even in the room when I gave birth.

Or he went right back

to work the next day.

Yeah.

And even if they had a choice to stay

home, they're like, oh, well I gotta work.

And it's just like, you don't

realize if you are setting

your family up for failure.

if you don't take that time as a partner,

to the one that gave birth, right?

And so I feel like it's such an

interesting conversation because

that push and pull between work and

sticking up for your family essentially.

Yeah.

And I think, know, it's

the narrative, right?

We've put a real premium in our

country on men being providers

and doing the paid work and women

doing the unpaid care work at home.

And so even like the overnight

feedings I've said on social media,

like, dad should be doing some of

those, even if they're partners

breastfeeding, like they can change

the diaper, they can soothe the baby.

Mm-hmm.

And men are like, well,

I have work tomorrow.

It's like, she's gonna be up tomorrow too.

Okay.

Like, and doing something

incredibly important, which

is caring for your newborn.

And we have this narrative of.

This work that men do outside of

the home being really important,

if not more important than the

work their partner does at home.

And so I really think we

should push back on that.

And I, do think most

men wanna be good dads.

They wanna be good partners.

But to your point, like as a society and,

kind of what's been modeled for us just

doesn't show us what that looks like.

Mm-hmm.

I was talking to someone the other

day and they were asking like,

oh, how was your, postpartum?

And I realized, I'm like.

Obviously I had a lot of challenges and

stuff, but I think because my husband

at the time, like where he was working

at the time, he got like two weeks off.

I was like, this is what it's

gonna be like when I'm, postpartum.

Like, I'm gonna need

you to help with this.

And like, I remember just being

responsible for like breastfeeding.

I was like, other than that, he

did everything else or we were

able to split other things.

I would hear of all these moms like

having like postpartum depression

and obviously that's so nuanced.

There's so many reasons

why women go through that.

Right?

Totally.

But I feel like a lot of it could be

helped with a supportive partner or

supportive workplaces because a lot of

times these women are stressed about going

back to work in a few weeks and they're

not getting paid and they have to get

their child in daycare and, that's a lot.

There's a lot.

you even mentioned daycare.

Women are typically the ones finding

childcare, and that's really hard to do.

And so yeah, it's not as

simple as just being home,

taking care of a sleeping baby.

it's pretty complex what's going on.

I'm glad to hear that you had

the support that you need.

I mean, similar to my husband had.

Not a lot of time with

our first three kids.

He had no time.

and then with our fourth, he

had four weeks and it was night

and day experience for us.

Right.

It was a vastly different

experience for me.

and I think that's so important.

I wish everyone had that.

I know.

It's like, imagine how it would be

if men were like forced, like, you

have to be home during these 2, 3,

4 weeks, whatever that looks like.

And just support.

Women.

Yeah.

I mean, some countries do that.

They mandate it, that men have to

take it, and there's like specific

rules around how that looks.

And so yeah, I think unfortunately

in order to get men to do it,

oftentimes it has to be mandated.

but I do think, more and more men are

doing it, but we still need to see

that improve across the board and.

know, there's data to show that, the

work that women are doing and the mental,

they're caring it leads to real impact,

mental, emotional, physical tolls on

women, and that has a long-term impact

on their, lives and their wellbeing.

And so if we care about that, if we care

about mothers as much as we say we do,

then we should prioritize their care.

Yeah.

So I bet with like posting this

kind of content, I mean, I see it

'cause I follow a lot of content

about like talking about, inequality

with women or, Women empowerment.

There's always the haters in the comments.

What do you think the most, like,

not necessarily like hate, comment,

or like argument against what you

have to say, or, you know, negative

comments that people will comment

and how do you kind of handle that?

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people

say couple things, that I hate men,

which I don't, I don't hate men.

I just want men to show up

in a more meaningful way and.

I think most of them want to do that,

which I know not everybody believes that.

Like I actually am a person on

the internet who says, like, I

actually think most dads wanna

be good people and good parents.

they're not doing it necessarily,

but I think they want to.

And so it's worth trying

to get them there.

but most people say, I hate men,

or, that my husband must hate me.

those are two top comments, because

I've talked about my own experience in

marriage and motherhood with my partner

and what that journey's been like.

And so, this mostly comes from men.

Obviously it's not coming from women.

I would say the vast majority of women.

Feel understood or at least

relate to something that I'm

saying, even if not everything.

but those tend to be the top

comments, which is because I'm

pushing for gender equity that yeah.

I don't like men and then

men in my life don't like me.

Mm.

I feel like too, it's like people that

say that kind of thing, in their family.

It's like, if it's not, broke,

don't fix it kind of thing.

Yeah.

It works for them, but does

it actually work for them?

Maybe it works for them as the male

partner, but have they actually

sat down with their partner and

asked, does this work for you?

But I think are probably afraid

to ask that question because they

don't wanna get the pushback or have

to carry more of that mental load.

Yeah, I think it's, layered.

I think it depends on

the person, obviously.

And.

one I hear from women in their sixties,

seventies, all the time who are like,

I wish I'd had this when I was younger.

'cause I just suffered through it.

And I spent 40 years of my life catering

to somebody who never helped me at all.

And I hear that constantly.

And then I'm lucky enough to hear from

young women who are learning about what

they do and don't want in a relationship.

But I think for men, some of it's,

you know, what did I see growing up?

What did my dad do?

What did my mom do?

I think to your point of happiness, one

of the comments that I see often, which

is always so surprising to me, and I think

comes from a very specific subset of men,

is that men will sacrifice their happiness

for their family, and women will sacrifice

their family for their happiness.

So insinuating that women who expect

more from their partner or choose

divorce because they're unhappy, are

choosing their own happiness above their

families, and men are willing to suffer.

For their families.

and it's this very specific talking

point that I find so interesting.

But I think it's, again, trying to

position women in this bad light

the same way we do as single moms.

Right.

Single moms are bad.

Where are the dads?

Right?

Like the moms are there.

we talk about that.

Like yes, the impact that being

raised by a single mother has.

And we never say like, okay, the impact

of a father being absent has, right?

Like, we never talk about that.

Mm-hmm.

So I think it's a branding

thing, but essentially like.

Whenever women do something that

remotely prioritizes themselves,

we position it as selfish.

When women have a career,

they're selfish, right?

They're, looking to make a ton of money.

They're letting somebody

else raise their kid.

When men do it, they're providers,

they're family men, right?

They're putting food in the table.

We, very different narratives

for men and women in our society.

So much so that.

we would never call a mom a

hands-on mom or a present mom.

Mm-hmm.

But like so many women will be

like, I have the best husband.

He's such a present dad.

He is so hands-on.

It's like, yeah, you, kind of have

to be hands-on with the toddler.

Like there's no other

version of parenthood.

Right.

For women.

And so it's just so interesting.

I think some of it is just, yeah, the

status quo, what we're used to, and

then other parts of it are kind of

like, yeah, what we think about men and

women at their time and whose time we

truly value.

That's such a good point.

Yeah.

It's like I've seen videos about

where it's like a mom could be

juggling like a few kids at the

store and they're like, that's a mom.

The kid might be like throwing a

tantrum or something and they're

just like, okay, whatever.

She's doing her mom thing.

But if a dad does it,

he's such a good dad.

The best dad.

She's such a good dad.

And I remember like people will say

stuff about my husband, they'll be

like, oh, he changes the diapers.

Oh, he takes her places by himself.

I'm like.

Well, he's her father.

Like why wouldn't he?

Yeah.

But I feel like it's also generational,

like, at least my parents' generation,

I feel like a lot of times it was

Stayat home mom, so she was with the

kids a lot, the dad was at work and

you know, you saw them for dinner time.

the older generations are

like, what's happening here?

Like, something's shifting.

Totally.

I think things are shifting.

I think in the millennial generation

you're seeing more egalitarian

relationships, which is amazing.

you're seeing a little bit more

polarization in the younger

generations between men and women and

what they expect from one another.

And I think.

There's many reasons for that, but it

is interesting how different millennial

men are compared to their fathers.

And I think that's a good thing.

I think it's a good thing, but

it doesn't come without pushback.

Obviously, when you're talking about

these, deeply ingrained expectations

of men and women, when you push back

on those people, it gets uncomfortable.

Yeah, definitely.

it's for the better good of, everyone.

For sure.

I agree.

what's your message for

anyone listening that.

Maybe is, struggling with the mental load

right now and doesn't kind of know the

first steps to take either with their

partner or their family or their work.

with the mental load in particular, I

often say the first thing you have to do

is just start to understand what it is.

I think oftentimes women feel incredibly

burnt out and exhausted and they feel

like they're kind of on this hamster

wheel they can never get off of.

They have this ongoing running to-do list

that's always there and never shorter.

and.

but They can't articulate that,

their partner says What's wrong,

they're just like, I don't even know.

There's a million things I could tell you.

A million things that I'm

stressed out about right now.

And so first and foremost, I suggest

people familiarize themselves

with the terms and what's actually

playing into the mental load.

And so one way to do that is to.

We say, make the invisible visible,

write things down every thought that pops

into your brain, which is like, I have

to pay, the school for a raffle basket.

my kids need cash 'cause they're

going to the beach tomorrow with camp.

I have all these reminders on my phone

and I think a really important way to

do this is just write everything down.

For a week, two weeks, just write

it all down and look at it and

you'll see, you'll start to see

what that mental load looks like.

What are the things that

are weighing you down?

What's stressing you out the most?

What's causing the most tension?

where do you think your

partner can support you?

Where do you feel like you're strong?

being able to look at it

in a really concrete way.

I use a spreadsheet, I offer this

to people, whoever wants it, it's

part of my free guide, but I have

a spreadsheet and it just lists a

bunch of tasks that most families do.

It's from the book Fair Play.

E Rodsky created this game, which

is a really great way to make

that invisible labor visible.

Doing that is so helpful just for you

as a person to be able to see it and

say like, wow, okay, this is why I'm

tired, like this is why I'm stressed out.

and then from there.

You can think about having a conversation

with your partner, but I often tell

women like, sometimes you're not

ready for a conversation with your

partner and you just need to be able

to say it to your therapist or say

it to your best friend and start

to articulate what you're feeling.

And then once you've been able to do

that, then you can start to have the

hard conversations of, okay, well what

does it look like for us to change this?

Mm-hmm.

I love that.

Saying it out loud.

'cause I feel like a lot of

times, like as women, we like

keep things in until like, yeah.

Kind of builds up a little bit and then

it's like you can't take it anymore.

So, I love that, getting it outside,

saying it to a therapist, a friend,

and kind of piggybacking off of that.

okay, let's get into, because

I know everyone loves the crazy

stories Wedding Hot takes.

Let's get into some different

hot takes for weddings.

if as we're kind of

talking, you have like any.

Wild wedding stories or wanna share

anything, you know, no pressure to share

anything personal if you don't want to.

okay.

These are hot takes

that people sent to me.

Here's what they said.

It's okay to skip traditions

that don't resonate with you,

including the white dress.

Yeah.

Why not?

my daughter's daycare teacher just

got married and she wore a pink dress,

and my daughters are all about it.

They're like, that was beautiful.

It was like a baby, like

very light, light pink.

But they, a four and

3-year-old are obsessed.

Yeah.

So I love that like old princess dress.

I know.

I feel like there's so many things

that we do with weddings or whatever it

else It is, and we don't like ask why.

We're just like, let's just do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It says you don't owe anyone a plus one,

especially if they've never met the one.

Mm, yeah.

Yeah.

There's a weird expectation that

you have to give people a plus one.

And I think, going back to the finances

talk from the beginning, it's like,

it's expensive to have a wedding and

I'm paying for your plus one to be here.

And I think depending on

who's funding it, right?

Like having that understanding, be

able to understand, especially if

they're your close friends, like.

I can't give everybody a plus one,

and I think that should be okay.

I think context matters

if you're inviting.

A coworker who knows no one

and you give them no plus one.

I actually think that's probably

pretty uncomfortable for them.

If you're inviting your cousin

who has 20 other cousins at the

wedding, they don't need a plus one.

Right?

Yeah.

Like your 16-year-old cousin

that just started dating someone.

I think they can come with

their parents like that.

That's fine.

Yeah.

I find this interesting thing when

I post about either, like if I do a

skit about plus ones or kids being

invited or something like that.

People have this, they either

are like, yes, I agree.

you don't owe anyone an invite.

Right?

The other side of people are

like, just say you're broke if

you're poor, don't have a wedding.

I've had some people say that and

I'm like, just because they're

not inviting the whole world

and then some, doesn't mean they

don't have money or they're broke.

Everything's nuanced.

Right?

And it's just like, I don't know.

Yeah.

It also reminds me of, like, when I talk

about childcare, people will say, well,

don't have kids if you can't afford 'em.

And it's like, okay, but I am

having kids that I can afford.

It doesn't mean that it's not expensive.

people are having weddings

that they can afford.

It just means they can't

invite your plus one.

to me, it's very like classist to

be, like, to say, you're broke.

It's like everybody's having the

wedding that they can afford.

they can afford or that's

within their budget.

And if you don't like

it, then don't attend.

Right.

Then don't go.

But I don't think we should judge

anybody for the scale of their wedding

or how many people they can invite or

how expensive it is, because at the

end of the day, we're all living in

this world and this economy together.

Right.

We all have different means.

I think it's a very strange take to have,

honestly.

Yeah.

It's so interesting.

Yeah.

That's such a good point too about the

kids comment, because you hear that all

the time One, it's like if just because

someone has a budget or they're like, oh,

this is expensive, or we can't afford to

do this because blank, it doesn't mean

they made a poor choice and why are we No.

Why are we putting someone

down because of their life?

And I don't know.

I find that so.

Yeah, it's also a very

privileged take, right?

Like we're all like one bad

medical disaster or layoff away

from struggling financially like

most people in this country.

And so if you have that perspective,

you can understand that some people

maybe aren't prioritizing plus ones

at their wedding because they're

saving for a down payment on a house.

And so they're not broke.

They just have different

priorities to you, and that's okay.

But I do think it's a pretty

privilege take to have that.

just say you're broke side of it.

It's so people are funny in

the comments about honeymoon

stuff or gifting at a wedding.

All these kind of things that

are just do what you can afford.

People are more happy

to have you be there.

It's like, yeah.

Very interesting.

Okay.

To kind of kick off a little bit

more, and before we get to the

wedding story, this is rapid fire.

This is kinda like just a new little.

Wedding chaos.

rapid fire thing.

Okay.

would you rather have your childhood

nemesis in your bridal party or your

partner's ex sitting front row partner's?

X. Okay.

Would you rather have the fire

alarms go off during your vows

or your mic cut out mid speech?

Mike.

Yeah.

I feel like that happens at

like

a lot of the weddings.

Anyway, I was gonna say, and I've been at

a wedding where the fire alarm went off.

It wasn't during the vows, but

we had to evacuate for a while.

Oh gosh.

I just heard a story where

the fire alarm went off.

And they all had to go off into the

parking lot and they ended up just

like the DJ just played music out there

and they like opened up a bar outside.

They're like, we couldn't

afford wait for hours.

And I was like, I love that.

I love that turn of events where

you just make the best of it.

It's memorable.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Everyone will always

talk about that wedding.

would you rather have your cake be

made of styrofoam for display or

taste like cardboard, styrofoam?

Would you rather your hairstylist

ghost you or your makeup artist?

Show up two hours late.

Hairstylist ghost me?

Yeah.

would you rather accidentally post

your private vows on Instagram or

text them to your ex? These are wild.

Instagram.

I've said worse on Instagram for sure.

It's like at this point someone was asking

how I post content and I'm like, once

you kind of start, you're kind of like,

we're all on this floating rock together.

Like who cares once you Yeah.

It's like once you get it out

there, you're like, I don't care.

these sting sometimes still, but for the

most part, of course I'm just like, I

dunno if you're ever like scrolling, like

TikTok, do you feel like we're just all

like on a talent show and we're all just

kinda like posting different things it

kinda just rolls past you after a while.

Okay.

Let's get into this

week's wedding submission.

as always, people just send me different

stories to react, to give advice or.

I guess it's kind of, I was gonna

say unsolicited, but they sent

it so I guess it's solicited.

Yeah.

so yeah, feel free to stop me at any

time or we can add little side stories.

So let's see.

I have not read it, so

let's see how it goes.

Okay.

or they say, so this is a long story.

It started when my brother-in-law got

married a few months before our wedding.

My mother-in-law insisted

on paying for the reception.

The couple offered to chip in

because they wanted to include

the bride's grandparents.

My mother-in-law said it was fine

and that she would handle everything.

On the day of the wedding,

she was incredibly sweet,

thanking everyone for coming.

But as soon as the guests, including

the couple left and the bill

came, she completely flipped out.

Mind you, this was a low key reception,

at a buffet style restaurant.

My husband tried to calm her down and

even offered to cover the cost for the

bride's grandparents, but she refused

and said they were all ungrateful.

She had also insisted on paying for

the limo the bride took to the church.

It was chaotic getting ready that day.

There were three limos outside and the

drivers were directing us where to go.

We even got into one limo and were told

it was the wrong one, so we had to switch.

At the time, I had a year

and a half old daughter.

She wasn't in the wedding, so

my mother-in-law offered to

watch her after the ceremony.

Anyway, I'm in the limo with the

bridesmaids and the flower girl.

We arrive at the church and there's

my mother-in-law, absolutely fuming.

Apparently the limo we wrote in

was meant for the bride to be fair.

The only difference was the color.

She had my daughter on her hip

and was walking up the steps.

When I saw the bride pulling up in the

other limo, she practically threw my

daughter at me and I tripped trying

to catch her so she wouldn't fall.

My gosh.

Okay.

Then she walked over to the bride's limo.

Tried to hand her a

cross necklace to wear.

The bride politely thanked her,

but explained she was wearing her

late grandmother's necklace who

passed just a few months before.

That must have been the last straw.

She reached into the window, window

of the limo and tried to pull the

bride out, screaming and cussing

that she didn't deserve her son.

then like nothing had happened,

she walked back to the steps and

tried to take my daughter again.

I told her absolutely not that I was

going to walk down the aisle with her.

I had already cleared it with the groom

who was in the back of the church sobbing.

The bride's parents asked

her to leave, but she said,

you'll have to call the cops.

I'm not leaving without

seeing my son get married.

Imagine saying that, and then

demanding to be there for the wedding.

No, that's crazy.

I mean, well, is that it or is there more?

There's more.

Okay.

It's already pretty wild.

it's funny, like these stories, sometimes

they seem like out of left field,

you don't really get like the before.

Yeah.

As sometimes you get some of this stuff,

but then all of a sudden it's just like

this crazy day that just goes wild.

okay.

Sure enough, the cops

came and escorted her out.

Oh my.

That's wild.

Okay.

The rest of the wedding was actually

beautiful and went off without a hitch.

I,

well, that's good.

I guess that's good.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

Okay.

I'm confused though.

Did she pay for the

reception and the rehearsal?

It must have been the rehearsal dinner.

That she was talking

about at the beginning.

Yeah.

I can't imagine she's

paying for a reception.

She's not attending, but

I know, well, it said she insisted

on paying for the reception, but

maybe that's the rehearsal dinner

maybe.

Yeah, because it's at the restaurant.

I don't know.

Yeah, because it sounds

like the night before.

Yeah, right.

Said, oh yeah.

So I'm wondering if she

meant rehearsal, maybe.

Yeah.

Because yeah, it was the night before at

a restaurant, and then they got a check.

Mm-hmm.

So, yeah.

I can't imagine she'd offer to pay

for it now, especially if everything

No, sure.

She was escorted away by the police

then she wasn't there for the check.

Right.

I mean, yeah, that is wild.

Just because they took the wrong limo.

I'm so confused of like,

there must be another.

Backstory or something that

happened.

I mean, it sounds like she doesn't

like the daughter-in-law and it also

sounds like, I don't know, there's

so many accounts out there that talk

about these kind of mothers of son

dynamics and mother-in-law dynamics and

I think this sounds like someone who,

obviously we do not have the context

here, but like wanted this wedding day

to be about her and what she wanted.

Mm-hmm.

I also think the grandparent thing is so

strange 'cause it's like it's two people.

You agree to it.

and I think.

Yes.

if somebody paid for my rehearsal

dinner, I would say thank you and be

grateful and all the things, but, you

shouldn't do it because you wanna parade.

Like if you're offering to do it, and

if you're agreeing to do it, don't know

what she wants from the bride and groom

and they're obviously preoccupied with

everything else and that day's about them.

And so.

Even if they are thankful, it

doesn't have to like, I don't know.

I don't know what that person wanted.

Mm-hmm.

I feel like it's that common trope

of like, they offer to pay for it,

but there's this like invisible

string or like Yeah, they're

dangling a carrot, to be like, we

paid for this, so we get to do this.

Or Yes, there's all these like.

If I do this, then I get this and

it's like, that's not how it works.

If it's a gift, an actual gift, and you

wanna help, then treat it as a gift.

Yeah.

There's no strings attached or control,

like you don't get to control a situation

because you financially provided for it.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

And I feel like they want this, red carpet

then rolled out like, oh, that's her.

She paid for the event, you know?

But it's like, it's still

not gonna be about you.

It's about the bride and groom.

Yeah.

Now she says, now my wedding.

After all of that, my husband and I

decided we were going to elope to Vegas.

Get it?

We asked my parents it.

You're like, I get it.

Yeah, I get that.

I eloped as well.

I get it.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh no, my family just doesn't get

along and so I figured instead of that

whatever is happening here, I don't

think that would've happened to me.

But I think, I decided instead to

elope with my husband in Italy and

we had the best time by ourselves.

so, I mean, I get the eloping I

actually recommended to everyone.

Even if your family is not complicated,

because personally to your point

earlier, like weddings are expensive.

People are never gonna be fully

happy with everything that you do.

if you are a person who knows

that you're gonna show up at your

wedding and be more concerned with

everybody else having a good time

than having a good time yourself.

Don't have a wedding, and that's who I am.

Like I would be running around

being, are you having fun?

Are you having fun?

Are you having fun?

The host And I wouldn't be having any fun.

And so eloping, I was

able to do whatever I

wanted, which was great.

That's such great advice because I know

brides were like, I was a bridesmaid

for them and the whole time they're

more concerned about everyone else.

They're doing everything

for the other people.

And it's like, yes, you wanna, care

obviously, and you want people to enjoy

themselves, but it goes by so quickly.

And if you're there like stressed

about everyone else and like, oh,

did so and so like their food, or

did so and so blah, blah, blah.

it loses the whole purpose, I think.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah.

okay, so she says they eloped to Vegas.

we asked my parents to watch our

daughter and began saving for

plane tickets in a hotel we had

planned for a two month window.

wait, they were going for two?

I'm assuming in two months from then?

Yeah, maybe.

Maybe.

I dunno.

No, that was, yeah.

as I'm reading these,

I'm like not absorbing.

I get it the right way.

okay.

But as life often goes,

something unexpected happened.

I found out I was pregnant with

our second child, no flying for me.

So we decided to get married at the

courthouse and plan to do a vow renewal.

In Vegas on our one year anniversary.

We wanted to keep it

simple and stress free.

So the mother-in-law from the

previous story is, that's gotta

be her husband or partner's mom.

It's her husband's, yeah.

Mom.

Yeah.

Okay.

So a mom of two sons it sounds like.

Who?

at least

two?

Yeah.

Yeah, at least

two.

Yeah.

Who might not like the daughter-in-laws?

Okay.

His mom insisted he stay at her house the

night before, even though we had already

been living together for two years.

She also insisted I wear her

cross necklace, so she's going

through these same like motions.

Mm-hmm.

Despite me not being religious, I

had found a dress I love on sale

Just $260 for the dress, Petco and veil.

I'm not into heels.

I even wore flip flops to the previous

wedding, but she took me shoe shopping

and made me get these blinged out

heels instead of the white slipper

style shoes I liked that were only $10.

don't understand.

Made me get she's like, poles are

up to the front and is like, you're

wearing these on your wedding day.

So I'd be like.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think, I get it though.

I think some people have a hard time.

which I sometimes say I'm

like a natural people pleaser.

I'd have a hard time finding a

way to like tactfully say no.

but.

I think also like, yeah, sometimes,

especially with your own wedding, it's

like, yeah, I'm not wearing those shoes.

Thank you though.

That's so kind of you.

It's kind of you.

but I'm gonna politely decline.

Yeah, I'm sure it's like so

complicated seeing how she

reacted to the last wedding.

So she's like probably tiptoeing

totally to this mother-in-law.

Gosh, that's gotta be a nightmare.

Okay.

What was supposed to be a short

25 minute ceremony started to

feel like a full-blown production.

I was pregnant, emotional, and

just wanted to marry my husband,

eat a burger, and go home.

My parents offered to take us to an

Italian restaurant after the ceremony.

I wasn't thrilled about it, but my

husband really wanted to go, so I agreed.

I figured I'd settle for

ravioli instead of a burger.

They invited his mom, my best

friend, who was my witness, and

his brother, who was his witness.

The whole time at the restaurant,

his mom was making nasty comments

to his brother about his wife.

Oh my gosh.

So she still doesn't let this all go.

No.

I also wonder how between that wedding

and this one, how the relationship

was, if they were like, you know,

we're gonna keep our distance.

Or if we're like, oh, it didn't happen

to us, we're just gonna brush it off.

Because getting arrested and pulled

outta your son's wedding is a big deal.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

I

don't know.

there's a lot of missing pieces here.

Yeah.

He eventually got up and left.

Then she started in on my husband

saying he wasn't sticking up for her.

It got super awkward.

I finally said, it's our wedding day.

We just wanna celebrate

with the people we love.

She looked me dead in the face and

said, well, now I have no sons.

Are you happy now?

Oh

yeah.

I think, she's just a classic example

of the, boy moms we see on social

media, the ones who are a bit, Yeah.

Are never gonna be pleased with whoever

the other, it's weird to say the other

woman, but the wife is, yeah, essentially.

I think this is a lived experience

that many women have and it

feels like a no-win scenario.

I mean, obviously we don't

know the intricacies here.

We dunno what's going on from this story.

Mm-hmm.

It sounds like she feels like she's

losing quote, unquote losing her

sons to their wives, which like.

I think that's what's supposed to happen.

Yeah, they're adults.

so yeah, that's complicated for sure.

Yeah.

I just had a therapist on last, a couple

weeks ago, and there's a term for it.

It's no, I don't wanna butcher it and

like say the wrong thing, enmeshment.

Enmeshment.

Yes.

Yes.

And she was like, it's

when they like can't see

their kids as separate people.

Mm-hmm.

Even when they're into, they're adults,

they feel like they always owe them,

or they always are connected in some

interesting way that's not Yeah.

Normal.

Yeah, not normal, but

I guess it's not, okay.

I was shocked in complete disbelief.

My husband calmly asked her to speak.

with her outside as they were heading out.

He told my best friend to

grab my coat and purse.

We got married in December

and bring them to him.

She followed and handed them to his mom.

Later he told me, he told her behavior

toward me, toward him, toward us was

completely unacceptable that she wasn't

going to ruin another wedding day.

He told her We needed a break.

There we go.

And that she had to accept that

her sons had found women they love.

She jumped in her car and sped off.

We went five months with

no contact after that.

The root of it all control.

She constantly tries to compete

with everyone financially,

emotionally, and otherwise.

That was nearly 14 years ago

and to this day, we still

have to take breaks from her.

So they're not no contact it

sounds like, but maybe low

contact.

I think some people go like low

contact with their parents, where

they engage with them when it feels

like they can and then otherwise.

take space from them.

I mean, that's really hard.

I think you hear about these stories

a lot of times, and I just dunno that

there's a healthy way to interact

with a person who's going to engage.

Even if I felt incredibly

wronged by somebody on their

wedding day, I would say nothing.

Mm-hmm.

no matter what, my sister, I don't care.

Like, I would say nothing.

I'd be like, that's for my

therapist for another day.

That's not, for now.

I think, people who don't have

that capacity, obviously, that's

a very different situation and

obviously I imagine for her

sons like so hard to navigate.

Mm-hmm.

that's gotta be so hard coming in as like

a daughter-in-law really excited to Marry

this person and having your in-law like

hate you just because you're with her son.

Yeah.

No other reason.

And you really can't win.

I feel like in a situation like

that, unless the mom goes to therapy

maybe, or like do some social

searching or something, I don't know.

that's just gotta be really challenging.

Yeah,

I can't imagine.

Yeah.

Honestly,

I'm proud of the husband because a lot

of these stories, you don't hear them

mention the fiance or partner or husband.

A lot of times it's just like their

personal story with the mother-in-law

or if it is a mother-in-law story

or the situation, and we're always.

Where are they in this story?

So I'm really glad that he like put his

foot down, was like, this is not okay.

Because you don't always hear

that in these stories because

it sounds like both of them did,

both brothers, stuck up for their partners

and I think that's really important.

You hear that a lot, which is I

have these awful in-laws and my

partner doesn't do anything about it.

And I think that's a really

difficult situation to be in.

So yeah, I think it's great

that both partners, stepped in.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, that was a wild, wild bunny story.

okay.

it's funny that we were talking about

eloping and stuff because when I

share these kinds of stories, people

are always like, oh, that's it.

I'm gonna elope.

And I think the important

lesson here is like.

Know your audience and know what you

and your partner want ultimately.

Mm-hmm.

Because I think eloping is a great idea.

I don't think everyone should elope,

but I think it just do whatever makes

sense for you and block out all the

noise because it's so easy to think like,

oh, my parents or my sister, or whoever

it is, wants this big wedding for us.

And then you do it and you're

like, that's not what I wanted.

And then it's, yeah.

Disappointing.

Yeah,

I think weddings have become this

like big, big, I mean, they've always

been a big thing, but I think now

too, in the age of social media,

it's like, what's the hashtag?

What's this?

What's that?

It doesn't matter at the end of the day.

And I think having a strong

partnership is ultimately.

The thing that you're gonna hold

onto for the rest of your life

is not gonna be that wedding day.

I will say I have friends who've

absolutely loved every single second

of their wedding and loved having one

and would do it a hundred times more.

And I think if you are that person

and you think that's going to be

you, you should absolutely do it.

Like do that.

And if you're not, that's okay.

And if it doesn't end up being the

best of your life, that's okay.

and this is not meant to sound, flippant,

I guess, or I don't know if that's the

right word, but as a wedding guest.

I couldn't tell you what somebody's

bouquet looked like seven days

later, let alone seven years later.

I don't remember, right?

I'm here ' cause I love you and

I wanna have a good time and I'm

gonna dance and I'm probably gonna

cry at your vows, but no one else

is nearly as invested as you are.

And I tell my friends all the time,

like when I'm a bridesmaid, I'm

like, don't worry about my pictures.

You're never gonna look at 'em again.

You're really not like, you're never

gonna look at this picture of you and

I in my bridesmaids dress again, you're

only gonna look at pictures of you and

your husband and maybe your family.

Yeah.

and that's just the truth.

Like at the end of the day, we're doing

it for us and our partner and there's

so much that goes into it that we stress

about, and it's like, no one else is

gonna remember this a week from now.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

So don't kill yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I know.

It's like you hear people

getting stressed over like.

I mean the favor being, oh my gosh.

I was in a wedding once where

they were stressed about the way

the favor was on the plate, and I

was like, no one's gonna notice.

Let's not stress about that.

It's okay.

And they never know.

I didn't know what it was supposed to

be, so I don't know that it's wrong.

Exactly.

You know, like you're

the only one who knows.

And here's the thing, if a vendor has

royally messed up and you're paying a lot

of money for it, like you should care.

but in the sense that you should try

and get your money back, not in the

sense that like anybody else cares.

No, absolutely.

I would say it was kind of a blessing.

Like my husband and I, all our, like

good friends got married before us.

We were like one of the last ones.

And it'll allow us to see over the

years, like what we liked, what we

didn't like, and learn from brides too.

being like, oh, I wasted money on

this, or I really wish I would've done

this, or, I caved and did this when I

really sh you know, whatever that was.

Yeah.

And I feel like we chopped off a

bunch of people too that They wouldn't

have cared to be there or not.

And so I feel like we can learn

a lot from, observing, I guess.

Um, a hundred percent, yeah.

Okay.

I like to just end these

with, some confessions.

People send me their crazy

confessions in Instagram.

this one says, my fiance wants me

to remember the good times with the

in-laws, and I just don't think I can.

So that sounds like a.

maybe a bad relationship

maybe with the in-laws.

Yeah.

I mean, I think like you can't ask

somebody to do something that they

don't have the capacity to do.

So

it

is what it's, yeah.

That sounds like to me, without assuming

too much, it just sounds the son's

probably put in the middle of the in-laws.

Mm-hmm.

His wife not getting along and he

doesn't want to like, cause a barrier

or say no, and so he is just just

think of the good times, That's hard.

my sisters were so much drama

at my wedding then got mad when

I didn't want to be at theirs.

Oh, that's hard.

yeah.

That's tough.

last one says I have to invite

someone I hate because she's the

wife my fiance's best friend.

Yeah, I think you do have to invite

her kind of, Ooh, I don't know.

It's tricky.

I would say if something has actually

transpired between the two of you and

she is a person who's caused you harm.

You don't need to, and like your

partner should be the one to have that

conversation with his best friend.

Yeah.

If you just don't like her, you

just don't vibe, you don't like her

energy or who she is as a person,

I think that's slightly different.

If somebody's caused you direct harm,

it been unkind to you, you shouldn't

have to have them at your wedding.

If.

It's just that you just don't like them.

You're not gonna notice her.

Again, going back to the, like, if

you have a hundred people at your

wedding and you hate one of them for

no real reason, and I'm not saying you

do, but if that's what it is and it's

like, just don't pay attention to her.

just ignore her.

you.

You don't have to interact.

There's enough people

there to buffer that.

It doesn't have to impact your day.

Yeah, no, that's a really good point.

And I wanna say, I'll try to say

it so it's not like too obvious,

but I have to say something

similar happened at our wedding.

I wouldn't say hate, of course, I

don't hate anybody but someone in our

wedding that's like really close with

my husband started dating someone.

I knew from my childhood

that was just kinda like a

bully, not like a nice person.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And when I found, I was like, oh,

we have to give him a plus one.

I know he's gonna bring her.

And it was just kinda uncomfortable,

awkward, not nice person, but I

just like put my feelings aside

with it and it ended up being fine.

Like, oh good.

It ended up being fine.

Totally fine.

She was awesome.

And I feel like it was just me

kind of holding onto some like

childhood thing of like, okay, I

don't know how this is gonna go.

And it was fine.

Yeah.

Um, that's good.

So, I don't know, not saying recommend

to like all of a sudden let it go.

'cause we don't know what happened

with these people, but just Right.

Totally.

well thank you so much for coming on.

I feel like we kind of jumped

all over the place because I'm

like, oh, let's talk weddings and,

Mental load.

But I feel like there's so many important

conversations to have and I was just

telling someone, like I started by

just sharing wedding stories on here.

'cause that's what I do in my content.

But I feel like it's so much more

complicated than just wedding.

There's relationships,

there's new relationships,

dynamics, that kind of thing.

And it all ties into so much more.

So thank you for coming on.

Thanks for having me.

Can you again just tell everybody

where they can follow you, what kind

of content you share, and anything

interesting or fun you're working on?

Yeah, sure.

I share content on modern marriage and

motherhood and what that looks like in

relation to gender equity, and you can

follow me on pretty much every social

media platform at, she's a page turner.

I also have a website.

She's a page turner.com, a

substack, all the things, and so.

if you Google it, you'll find me.

Awesome.

Well, thank you so much.

It was awesome chatting with you.

Thank you.

I.