Hi Paige.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Thanks for having me.
I'm so excited to talk to you.
I was just saying before we started
recording that I think I first saw you
on, I wanna say it was probably TikTok
or something and you stitched Dave
Ramsey and I love like this feminist
movement where we were just calling out
people that maybe say things that are
a little harmful to, especially when
we talk about moms and the mother load.
And I always tend to
like just jump right in.
But can we talk a little
bit about what that was?
I kinda wanna talk about.
Your platform and how that's
kind of like grown over the years
and what you kind of focus on?
yeah,
sure.
Yeah, so that video in particular
was right up my alley because I talk
a lot about childcare and he was
talking about the cost of childcare.
And so for context, I create content
and I started out talking about
just being a working mother and.
part of that conversation is logistics.
How do I make it work?
How much do I pay for daycare?
What does our schedule look like?
Just all of those things.
And I was just sharing my lived
experience of motherhood, and the
very first time I went viral on TikTok
was talking about how much I pay for
daycare, because people were just.
Astonished at how expensive it is, and,
didn't even believe me transparently.
A lot of people were
like, that's not real.
And so I spend a lot of time bringing
awareness to the childcare crisis
because this is something that is
happening to most people in our
country, like most people and parents
are experiencing, the high cost of
childcare and the impacts of that.
And so.
When I saw the video of Dave
Ramsey saying $25,000 a year for
childcare, like, that's not real.
I felt like I had to respond
because it is very real.
It is the lived experience of
many, many families, and for
me, he's a financial expert.
He should understand the finances
of the people he's speaking to and
the fact that this is the reality
for most people in our country.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I think when.
You get to a certain, I don't
know, I would say platform of
his, He can't really relate to the
common person, the common family.
and so I feel like, I feel like
your content is so necessary because
so many moms might go in and see
something like his, and it's like,
oh wait, I shouldn't be paying this.
Or like, this isn't normal, but
like we can't relate to someone like
that, that actually is not in it.
Right.
Totally.
Yeah.
I think first and foremost, I think
he's of a different generation,
and so childcare looks different
today than it did even 10 years ago.
And so if you haven't been a
parent to young children in a
very long time, you don't know
the realities of the cost, right?
So I think in that way he's out of touch.
But it is his job to be in touch
with what the average experience
is of parents in our country,
especially if he's giving out.
Financial advice, but I also think just
in general, Dave has a very specific
idea of what it should look like, right?
he had a stay at home partner.
He, personally likes that, right?
Like that idea of, women providing
that childcare, or at least he
insinuates that in some of his content.
And, Yeah.
You know, I just think he has a
very specific platform and form of
advice that he gives, and I just
felt like in that instance, you
know, I'm not a financial expert.
I don't pretend to be, but in
that instance, he was saying
something that I felt like was so
outlandish and out of touch that
it had to be addressed in some way.
So I know I kinda like jumped the gun
right into that, conversation that I saw.
Sure.
But
can you tell everyone a little bit more
about what you post about on your page,
your content, and what you feel your
mission has become, with your posting?
Sure.
So yeah, I talk a lot about being a
working mother and the realities of
what modern marriage and motherhood
look like specifically for women.
I will say my following on all
platforms is 99% women, sometimes 98.
You know, it fluctuates.
Mm-hmm.
But it's mostly women because
my content for them is relatable
and it's something that they,
understand and see themselves in.
I would say the thing that
most people know me for is.
Speaking about the mental load
specifically as it relates to motherhood,
but I speak about it in general as well.
Mm-hmm.
And.
My goal with that conversation is to help
women articulate what's happening in their
lives so they can better, process that
with their partner, find equity at home,
and hopefully in the workplace as well.
And as part of that mission, I
also talk about systemic things
like lack of pay, parental leave,
lack of affordable childcare.
the motherhood penalty in the workplace.
So my overarching goal is to
help women advocate for gender
equity in all facets of life.
So not, being the default
parent by default, right?
All of these things that I think as a
society have been very normal for very
long, but are leading women to feel burnt
out and exhausted, and I do that through.
Sharing my own experience, but
also just thought leadership
on these topics in general.
Yeah, I love that.
It's so powerful and it's funny, I
mention it time and time again, but
like before doing all of this, I worked
for a mommy brand and ironically it
was before I had my daughter and but
with that, it was, I heard firsthand
stories from moms, like struggling to
go back to work, having to go back to
work after six weeks or unpaid leave.
And when I started kinda like digging
into it, I was like, this is outrageous.
Like it's, we're in a country
where they want us to have more
kids, but then there's no support
when you do have those kids.
so what do you think are the biggest like.
Things like work.
I mean, workplaces is one thing.
what can workplaces do?
What can we do as a society to kind of
like raise awareness to all this stuff?
I think talking about it first
and foremost is really important,
bringing these topics up.
You know, the things I've mentioned,
childcare, paid parental leave.
We often view these as women's issues,
when in reality they're a family issue.
They should be impacting anyone who
is a parent, not just women, but women
are the ones that disproportionately
take on this work, right?
So if there's no
childcare, who stays home.
Typically mom
who adjust their career,
typically mom,
right?
And so that's just a societal expectation.
And then sometimes people will
point to the fact that, well,
oh, the husband makes more money.
And that just points the wage gap, right?
It's just like, it's this kinda
like chicken and egg thing, right?
We're struggling at home, we're
struggling in the workplace, and
they're really tied together.
And so I think on an individual level.
I like to tell people
this is not a failure.
Like if you've ended up in a position
where you're burnt out and exhausted
and you're struggling with the mental
load and your career has taken a hit due
to childcare or whatever it might be.
You're not alone in that.
That's not a personal failure, that's
a systemic failure across the board.
But also there's certain things that
are within our control that we can do.
And so we can't fix all the systems
at one time, but we can do some
things, which is, for example, if your
husband has access to paid parental
leave, he should be taking it.
Mm-hmm.
So many men don't.
So many men have access and they
don't take it, and they don't take it.
Because they're afraid it's gonna
hurt their career, which ultimately
just hurts women's careers more
and hurts their partners and
their baby and all of the things.
And so, we need men to be doing that.
We need, policies that support
parents in the workplace.
So adequate sick time, adequate
paid leave, flexible work schedules.
we need to stop these return
to office mandates that
disproportionately impact women, right?
Like there's all these things,
but also within our homes.
One of the reasons I suggest paid parental
leave not suggest I strongly encourage,
is because when men take it, they're more
likely to carry that mental load with
their partner from the beginning and.
The mental load disparity happens
very, very early on, typically
even before you have kids.
I think about, when my husband and I were
in our twenties and we were going to a
million weddings, I always bought the
gift and the card and booked the hotel
and coordinated all the things, and he was
there, but I was coordinating it, right?
Like I carried that mental load.
It wasn't super heavy until we had
kids, and so being aware of these
dynamics in advance and talking about
them with your partner, putting systems
in place to avoid one person carrying
too much, that's something we can
do, and there's tools to do that.
I love that.
Yeah.
I feel like it's such an
important conversation
that a lot of families either don't
have or don't know they should or
can have them because it's just,
that's the way it was when I grew up.
Or my dad went to work, my mom was home.
So I just thought that's how it went.
and I think, like I said, with working at
the mom brand, I was able to see like, ah.
I don't want that when I go
through postpartum, I need my part.
It was like, have your partner
support you, get your partner
involved in the process.
Because so many women would like
tell me like, oh, my husband wasn't
even in the room when I gave birth.
Or he went right back
to work the next day.
Yeah.
And even if they had a choice to stay
home, they're like, oh, well I gotta work.
And it's just like, you don't
realize if you are setting
your family up for failure.
if you don't take that time as a partner,
to the one that gave birth, right?
And so I feel like it's such an
interesting conversation because
that push and pull between work and
sticking up for your family essentially.
Yeah.
And I think, know, it's
the narrative, right?
We've put a real premium in our
country on men being providers
and doing the paid work and women
doing the unpaid care work at home.
And so even like the overnight
feedings I've said on social media,
like, dad should be doing some of
those, even if they're partners
breastfeeding, like they can change
the diaper, they can soothe the baby.
Mm-hmm.
And men are like, well,
I have work tomorrow.
It's like, she's gonna be up tomorrow too.
Okay.
Like, and doing something
incredibly important, which
is caring for your newborn.
And we have this narrative of.
This work that men do outside of
the home being really important,
if not more important than the
work their partner does at home.
And so I really think we
should push back on that.
And I, do think most
men wanna be good dads.
They wanna be good partners.
But to your point, like as a society and,
kind of what's been modeled for us just
doesn't show us what that looks like.
Mm-hmm.
I was talking to someone the other
day and they were asking like,
oh, how was your, postpartum?
And I realized, I'm like.
Obviously I had a lot of challenges and
stuff, but I think because my husband
at the time, like where he was working
at the time, he got like two weeks off.
I was like, this is what it's
gonna be like when I'm, postpartum.
Like, I'm gonna need
you to help with this.
And like, I remember just being
responsible for like breastfeeding.
I was like, other than that, he
did everything else or we were
able to split other things.
I would hear of all these moms like
having like postpartum depression
and obviously that's so nuanced.
There's so many reasons
why women go through that.
Right?
Totally.
But I feel like a lot of it could be
helped with a supportive partner or
supportive workplaces because a lot of
times these women are stressed about going
back to work in a few weeks and they're
not getting paid and they have to get
their child in daycare and, that's a lot.
There's a lot.
you even mentioned daycare.
Women are typically the ones finding
childcare, and that's really hard to do.
And so yeah, it's not as
simple as just being home,
taking care of a sleeping baby.
it's pretty complex what's going on.
I'm glad to hear that you had
the support that you need.
I mean, similar to my husband had.
Not a lot of time with
our first three kids.
He had no time.
and then with our fourth, he
had four weeks and it was night
and day experience for us.
Right.
It was a vastly different
experience for me.
and I think that's so important.
I wish everyone had that.
I know.
It's like, imagine how it would be
if men were like forced, like, you
have to be home during these 2, 3,
4 weeks, whatever that looks like.
And just support.
Women.
Yeah.
I mean, some countries do that.
They mandate it, that men have to
take it, and there's like specific
rules around how that looks.
And so yeah, I think unfortunately
in order to get men to do it,
oftentimes it has to be mandated.
but I do think, more and more men are
doing it, but we still need to see
that improve across the board and.
know, there's data to show that, the
work that women are doing and the mental,
they're caring it leads to real impact,
mental, emotional, physical tolls on
women, and that has a long-term impact
on their, lives and their wellbeing.
And so if we care about that, if we care
about mothers as much as we say we do,
then we should prioritize their care.
Yeah.
So I bet with like posting this
kind of content, I mean, I see it
'cause I follow a lot of content
about like talking about, inequality
with women or, Women empowerment.
There's always the haters in the comments.
What do you think the most, like,
not necessarily like hate, comment,
or like argument against what you
have to say, or, you know, negative
comments that people will comment
and how do you kind of handle that?
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people
say couple things, that I hate men,
which I don't, I don't hate men.
I just want men to show up
in a more meaningful way and.
I think most of them want to do that,
which I know not everybody believes that.
Like I actually am a person on
the internet who says, like, I
actually think most dads wanna
be good people and good parents.
they're not doing it necessarily,
but I think they want to.
And so it's worth trying
to get them there.
but most people say, I hate men,
or, that my husband must hate me.
those are two top comments, because
I've talked about my own experience in
marriage and motherhood with my partner
and what that journey's been like.
And so, this mostly comes from men.
Obviously it's not coming from women.
I would say the vast majority of women.
Feel understood or at least
relate to something that I'm
saying, even if not everything.
but those tend to be the top
comments, which is because I'm
pushing for gender equity that yeah.
I don't like men and then
men in my life don't like me.
Mm.
I feel like too, it's like people that
say that kind of thing, in their family.
It's like, if it's not, broke,
don't fix it kind of thing.
Yeah.
It works for them, but does
it actually work for them?
Maybe it works for them as the male
partner, but have they actually
sat down with their partner and
asked, does this work for you?
But I think are probably afraid
to ask that question because they
don't wanna get the pushback or have
to carry more of that mental load.
Yeah, I think it's, layered.
I think it depends on
the person, obviously.
And.
one I hear from women in their sixties,
seventies, all the time who are like,
I wish I'd had this when I was younger.
'cause I just suffered through it.
And I spent 40 years of my life catering
to somebody who never helped me at all.
And I hear that constantly.
And then I'm lucky enough to hear from
young women who are learning about what
they do and don't want in a relationship.
But I think for men, some of it's,
you know, what did I see growing up?
What did my dad do?
What did my mom do?
I think to your point of happiness, one
of the comments that I see often, which
is always so surprising to me, and I think
comes from a very specific subset of men,
is that men will sacrifice their happiness
for their family, and women will sacrifice
their family for their happiness.
So insinuating that women who expect
more from their partner or choose
divorce because they're unhappy, are
choosing their own happiness above their
families, and men are willing to suffer.
For their families.
and it's this very specific talking
point that I find so interesting.
But I think it's, again, trying to
position women in this bad light
the same way we do as single moms.
Right.
Single moms are bad.
Where are the dads?
Right?
Like the moms are there.
we talk about that.
Like yes, the impact that being
raised by a single mother has.
And we never say like, okay, the impact
of a father being absent has, right?
Like, we never talk about that.
Mm-hmm.
So I think it's a branding
thing, but essentially like.
Whenever women do something that
remotely prioritizes themselves,
we position it as selfish.
When women have a career,
they're selfish, right?
They're, looking to make a ton of money.
They're letting somebody
else raise their kid.
When men do it, they're providers,
they're family men, right?
They're putting food in the table.
We, very different narratives
for men and women in our society.
So much so that.
we would never call a mom a
hands-on mom or a present mom.
Mm-hmm.
But like so many women will be
like, I have the best husband.
He's such a present dad.
He is so hands-on.
It's like, yeah, you, kind of have
to be hands-on with the toddler.
Like there's no other
version of parenthood.
Right.
For women.
And so it's just so interesting.
I think some of it is just, yeah, the
status quo, what we're used to, and
then other parts of it are kind of
like, yeah, what we think about men and
women at their time and whose time we
truly value.
That's such a good point.
Yeah.
It's like I've seen videos about
where it's like a mom could be
juggling like a few kids at the
store and they're like, that's a mom.
The kid might be like throwing a
tantrum or something and they're
just like, okay, whatever.
She's doing her mom thing.
But if a dad does it,
he's such a good dad.
The best dad.
She's such a good dad.
And I remember like people will say
stuff about my husband, they'll be
like, oh, he changes the diapers.
Oh, he takes her places by himself.
I'm like.
Well, he's her father.
Like why wouldn't he?
Yeah.
But I feel like it's also generational,
like, at least my parents' generation,
I feel like a lot of times it was
Stayat home mom, so she was with the
kids a lot, the dad was at work and
you know, you saw them for dinner time.
the older generations are
like, what's happening here?
Like, something's shifting.
Totally.
I think things are shifting.
I think in the millennial generation
you're seeing more egalitarian
relationships, which is amazing.
you're seeing a little bit more
polarization in the younger
generations between men and women and
what they expect from one another.
And I think.
There's many reasons for that, but it
is interesting how different millennial
men are compared to their fathers.
And I think that's a good thing.
I think it's a good thing, but
it doesn't come without pushback.
Obviously, when you're talking about
these, deeply ingrained expectations
of men and women, when you push back
on those people, it gets uncomfortable.
Yeah, definitely.
it's for the better good of, everyone.
For sure.
I agree.
what's your message for
anyone listening that.
Maybe is, struggling with the mental load
right now and doesn't kind of know the
first steps to take either with their
partner or their family or their work.
with the mental load in particular, I
often say the first thing you have to do
is just start to understand what it is.
I think oftentimes women feel incredibly
burnt out and exhausted and they feel
like they're kind of on this hamster
wheel they can never get off of.
They have this ongoing running to-do list
that's always there and never shorter.
and.
but They can't articulate that,
their partner says What's wrong,
they're just like, I don't even know.
There's a million things I could tell you.
A million things that I'm
stressed out about right now.
And so first and foremost, I suggest
people familiarize themselves
with the terms and what's actually
playing into the mental load.
And so one way to do that is to.
We say, make the invisible visible,
write things down every thought that pops
into your brain, which is like, I have
to pay, the school for a raffle basket.
my kids need cash 'cause they're
going to the beach tomorrow with camp.
I have all these reminders on my phone
and I think a really important way to
do this is just write everything down.
For a week, two weeks, just write
it all down and look at it and
you'll see, you'll start to see
what that mental load looks like.
What are the things that
are weighing you down?
What's stressing you out the most?
What's causing the most tension?
where do you think your
partner can support you?
Where do you feel like you're strong?
being able to look at it
in a really concrete way.
I use a spreadsheet, I offer this
to people, whoever wants it, it's
part of my free guide, but I have
a spreadsheet and it just lists a
bunch of tasks that most families do.
It's from the book Fair Play.
E Rodsky created this game, which
is a really great way to make
that invisible labor visible.
Doing that is so helpful just for you
as a person to be able to see it and
say like, wow, okay, this is why I'm
tired, like this is why I'm stressed out.
and then from there.
You can think about having a conversation
with your partner, but I often tell
women like, sometimes you're not
ready for a conversation with your
partner and you just need to be able
to say it to your therapist or say
it to your best friend and start
to articulate what you're feeling.
And then once you've been able to do
that, then you can start to have the
hard conversations of, okay, well what
does it look like for us to change this?
Mm-hmm.
I love that.
Saying it out loud.
'cause I feel like a lot of
times, like as women, we like
keep things in until like, yeah.
Kind of builds up a little bit and then
it's like you can't take it anymore.
So, I love that, getting it outside,
saying it to a therapist, a friend,
and kind of piggybacking off of that.
okay, let's get into, because
I know everyone loves the crazy
stories Wedding Hot takes.
Let's get into some different
hot takes for weddings.
if as we're kind of
talking, you have like any.
Wild wedding stories or wanna share
anything, you know, no pressure to share
anything personal if you don't want to.
okay.
These are hot takes
that people sent to me.
Here's what they said.
It's okay to skip traditions
that don't resonate with you,
including the white dress.
Yeah.
Why not?
my daughter's daycare teacher just
got married and she wore a pink dress,
and my daughters are all about it.
They're like, that was beautiful.
It was like a baby, like
very light, light pink.
But they, a four and
3-year-old are obsessed.
Yeah.
So I love that like old princess dress.
I know.
I feel like there's so many things
that we do with weddings or whatever it
else It is, and we don't like ask why.
We're just like, let's just do it.
Yeah.
It says you don't owe anyone a plus one,
especially if they've never met the one.
Mm, yeah.
Yeah.
There's a weird expectation that
you have to give people a plus one.
And I think, going back to the finances
talk from the beginning, it's like,
it's expensive to have a wedding and
I'm paying for your plus one to be here.
And I think depending on
who's funding it, right?
Like having that understanding, be
able to understand, especially if
they're your close friends, like.
I can't give everybody a plus one,
and I think that should be okay.
I think context matters
if you're inviting.
A coworker who knows no one
and you give them no plus one.
I actually think that's probably
pretty uncomfortable for them.
If you're inviting your cousin
who has 20 other cousins at the
wedding, they don't need a plus one.
Right?
Yeah.
Like your 16-year-old cousin
that just started dating someone.
I think they can come with
their parents like that.
That's fine.
Yeah.
I find this interesting thing when
I post about either, like if I do a
skit about plus ones or kids being
invited or something like that.
People have this, they either
are like, yes, I agree.
you don't owe anyone an invite.
Right?
The other side of people are
like, just say you're broke if
you're poor, don't have a wedding.
I've had some people say that and
I'm like, just because they're
not inviting the whole world
and then some, doesn't mean they
don't have money or they're broke.
Everything's nuanced.
Right?
And it's just like, I don't know.
Yeah.
It also reminds me of, like, when I talk
about childcare, people will say, well,
don't have kids if you can't afford 'em.
And it's like, okay, but I am
having kids that I can afford.
It doesn't mean that it's not expensive.
people are having weddings
that they can afford.
It just means they can't
invite your plus one.
to me, it's very like classist to
be, like, to say, you're broke.
It's like everybody's having the
wedding that they can afford.
they can afford or that's
within their budget.
And if you don't like
it, then don't attend.
Right.
Then don't go.
But I don't think we should judge
anybody for the scale of their wedding
or how many people they can invite or
how expensive it is, because at the
end of the day, we're all living in
this world and this economy together.
Right.
We all have different means.
I think it's a very strange take to have,
honestly.
Yeah.
It's so interesting.
Yeah.
That's such a good point too about the
kids comment, because you hear that all
the time One, it's like if just because
someone has a budget or they're like, oh,
this is expensive, or we can't afford to
do this because blank, it doesn't mean
they made a poor choice and why are we No.
Why are we putting someone
down because of their life?
And I don't know.
I find that so.
Yeah, it's also a very
privileged take, right?
Like we're all like one bad
medical disaster or layoff away
from struggling financially like
most people in this country.
And so if you have that perspective,
you can understand that some people
maybe aren't prioritizing plus ones
at their wedding because they're
saving for a down payment on a house.
And so they're not broke.
They just have different
priorities to you, and that's okay.
But I do think it's a pretty
privilege take to have that.
just say you're broke side of it.
It's so people are funny in
the comments about honeymoon
stuff or gifting at a wedding.
All these kind of things that
are just do what you can afford.
People are more happy
to have you be there.
It's like, yeah.
Very interesting.
Okay.
To kind of kick off a little bit
more, and before we get to the
wedding story, this is rapid fire.
This is kinda like just a new little.
Wedding chaos.
rapid fire thing.
Okay.
would you rather have your childhood
nemesis in your bridal party or your
partner's ex sitting front row partner's?
X. Okay.
Would you rather have the fire
alarms go off during your vows
or your mic cut out mid speech?
Mike.
Yeah.
I feel like that happens at
like
a lot of the weddings.
Anyway, I was gonna say, and I've been at
a wedding where the fire alarm went off.
It wasn't during the vows, but
we had to evacuate for a while.
Oh gosh.
I just heard a story where
the fire alarm went off.
And they all had to go off into the
parking lot and they ended up just
like the DJ just played music out there
and they like opened up a bar outside.
They're like, we couldn't
afford wait for hours.
And I was like, I love that.
I love that turn of events where
you just make the best of it.
It's memorable.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Everyone will always
talk about that wedding.
would you rather have your cake be
made of styrofoam for display or
taste like cardboard, styrofoam?
Would you rather your hairstylist
ghost you or your makeup artist?
Show up two hours late.
Hairstylist ghost me?
Yeah.
would you rather accidentally post
your private vows on Instagram or
text them to your ex? These are wild.
Instagram.
I've said worse on Instagram for sure.
It's like at this point someone was asking
how I post content and I'm like, once
you kind of start, you're kind of like,
we're all on this floating rock together.
Like who cares once you Yeah.
It's like once you get it out
there, you're like, I don't care.
these sting sometimes still, but for the
most part, of course I'm just like, I
dunno if you're ever like scrolling, like
TikTok, do you feel like we're just all
like on a talent show and we're all just
kinda like posting different things it
kinda just rolls past you after a while.
Okay.
Let's get into this
week's wedding submission.
as always, people just send me different
stories to react, to give advice or.
I guess it's kind of, I was gonna
say unsolicited, but they sent
it so I guess it's solicited.
Yeah.
so yeah, feel free to stop me at any
time or we can add little side stories.
So let's see.
I have not read it, so
let's see how it goes.
Okay.
or they say, so this is a long story.
It started when my brother-in-law got
married a few months before our wedding.
My mother-in-law insisted
on paying for the reception.
The couple offered to chip in
because they wanted to include
the bride's grandparents.
My mother-in-law said it was fine
and that she would handle everything.
On the day of the wedding,
she was incredibly sweet,
thanking everyone for coming.
But as soon as the guests, including
the couple left and the bill
came, she completely flipped out.
Mind you, this was a low key reception,
at a buffet style restaurant.
My husband tried to calm her down and
even offered to cover the cost for the
bride's grandparents, but she refused
and said they were all ungrateful.
She had also insisted on paying for
the limo the bride took to the church.
It was chaotic getting ready that day.
There were three limos outside and the
drivers were directing us where to go.
We even got into one limo and were told
it was the wrong one, so we had to switch.
At the time, I had a year
and a half old daughter.
She wasn't in the wedding, so
my mother-in-law offered to
watch her after the ceremony.
Anyway, I'm in the limo with the
bridesmaids and the flower girl.
We arrive at the church and there's
my mother-in-law, absolutely fuming.
Apparently the limo we wrote in
was meant for the bride to be fair.
The only difference was the color.
She had my daughter on her hip
and was walking up the steps.
When I saw the bride pulling up in the
other limo, she practically threw my
daughter at me and I tripped trying
to catch her so she wouldn't fall.
My gosh.
Okay.
Then she walked over to the bride's limo.
Tried to hand her a
cross necklace to wear.
The bride politely thanked her,
but explained she was wearing her
late grandmother's necklace who
passed just a few months before.
That must have been the last straw.
She reached into the window, window
of the limo and tried to pull the
bride out, screaming and cussing
that she didn't deserve her son.
then like nothing had happened,
she walked back to the steps and
tried to take my daughter again.
I told her absolutely not that I was
going to walk down the aisle with her.
I had already cleared it with the groom
who was in the back of the church sobbing.
The bride's parents asked
her to leave, but she said,
you'll have to call the cops.
I'm not leaving without
seeing my son get married.
Imagine saying that, and then
demanding to be there for the wedding.
No, that's crazy.
I mean, well, is that it or is there more?
There's more.
Okay.
It's already pretty wild.
it's funny, like these stories, sometimes
they seem like out of left field,
you don't really get like the before.
Yeah.
As sometimes you get some of this stuff,
but then all of a sudden it's just like
this crazy day that just goes wild.
okay.
Sure enough, the cops
came and escorted her out.
Oh my.
That's wild.
Okay.
The rest of the wedding was actually
beautiful and went off without a hitch.
I,
well, that's good.
I guess that's good.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
I'm confused though.
Did she pay for the
reception and the rehearsal?
It must have been the rehearsal dinner.
That she was talking
about at the beginning.
Yeah.
I can't imagine she's
paying for a reception.
She's not attending, but
I know, well, it said she insisted
on paying for the reception, but
maybe that's the rehearsal dinner
maybe.
Yeah, because it's at the restaurant.
I don't know.
Yeah, because it sounds
like the night before.
Yeah, right.
Said, oh yeah.
So I'm wondering if she
meant rehearsal, maybe.
Yeah.
Because yeah, it was the night before at
a restaurant, and then they got a check.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah.
I can't imagine she'd offer to pay
for it now, especially if everything
No, sure.
She was escorted away by the police
then she wasn't there for the check.
Right.
I mean, yeah, that is wild.
Just because they took the wrong limo.
I'm so confused of like,
there must be another.
Backstory or something that
happened.
I mean, it sounds like she doesn't
like the daughter-in-law and it also
sounds like, I don't know, there's
so many accounts out there that talk
about these kind of mothers of son
dynamics and mother-in-law dynamics and
I think this sounds like someone who,
obviously we do not have the context
here, but like wanted this wedding day
to be about her and what she wanted.
Mm-hmm.
I also think the grandparent thing is so
strange 'cause it's like it's two people.
You agree to it.
and I think.
Yes.
if somebody paid for my rehearsal
dinner, I would say thank you and be
grateful and all the things, but, you
shouldn't do it because you wanna parade.
Like if you're offering to do it, and
if you're agreeing to do it, don't know
what she wants from the bride and groom
and they're obviously preoccupied with
everything else and that day's about them.
And so.
Even if they are thankful, it
doesn't have to like, I don't know.
I don't know what that person wanted.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like it's that common trope
of like, they offer to pay for it,
but there's this like invisible
string or like Yeah, they're
dangling a carrot, to be like, we
paid for this, so we get to do this.
Or Yes, there's all these like.
If I do this, then I get this and
it's like, that's not how it works.
If it's a gift, an actual gift, and you
wanna help, then treat it as a gift.
Yeah.
There's no strings attached or control,
like you don't get to control a situation
because you financially provided for it.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And I feel like they want this, red carpet
then rolled out like, oh, that's her.
She paid for the event, you know?
But it's like, it's still
not gonna be about you.
It's about the bride and groom.
Yeah.
Now she says, now my wedding.
After all of that, my husband and I
decided we were going to elope to Vegas.
Get it?
We asked my parents it.
You're like, I get it.
Yeah, I get that.
I eloped as well.
I get it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh no, my family just doesn't get
along and so I figured instead of that
whatever is happening here, I don't
think that would've happened to me.
But I think, I decided instead to
elope with my husband in Italy and
we had the best time by ourselves.
so, I mean, I get the eloping I
actually recommended to everyone.
Even if your family is not complicated,
because personally to your point
earlier, like weddings are expensive.
People are never gonna be fully
happy with everything that you do.
if you are a person who knows
that you're gonna show up at your
wedding and be more concerned with
everybody else having a good time
than having a good time yourself.
Don't have a wedding, and that's who I am.
Like I would be running around
being, are you having fun?
Are you having fun?
The host And I wouldn't be having any fun.
And so eloping, I was
able to do whatever I
wanted, which was great.
That's such great advice because I know
brides were like, I was a bridesmaid
for them and the whole time they're
more concerned about everyone else.
They're doing everything
for the other people.
And it's like, yes, you wanna, care
obviously, and you want people to enjoy
themselves, but it goes by so quickly.
And if you're there like stressed
about everyone else and like, oh,
did so and so like their food, or
did so and so blah, blah, blah.
it loses the whole purpose, I think.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
okay, so she says they eloped to Vegas.
we asked my parents to watch our
daughter and began saving for
plane tickets in a hotel we had
planned for a two month window.
wait, they were going for two?
I'm assuming in two months from then?
Yeah, maybe.
Maybe.
I dunno.
No, that was, yeah.
as I'm reading these,
I'm like not absorbing.
I get it the right way.
okay.
But as life often goes,
something unexpected happened.
I found out I was pregnant with
our second child, no flying for me.
So we decided to get married at the
courthouse and plan to do a vow renewal.
In Vegas on our one year anniversary.
We wanted to keep it
simple and stress free.
So the mother-in-law from the
previous story is, that's gotta
be her husband or partner's mom.
It's her husband's, yeah.
Mom.
Yeah.
Okay.
So a mom of two sons it sounds like.
Who?
at least
two?
Yeah.
Yeah, at least
two.
Yeah.
Who might not like the daughter-in-laws?
Okay.
His mom insisted he stay at her house the
night before, even though we had already
been living together for two years.
She also insisted I wear her
cross necklace, so she's going
through these same like motions.
Mm-hmm.
Despite me not being religious, I
had found a dress I love on sale
Just $260 for the dress, Petco and veil.
I'm not into heels.
I even wore flip flops to the previous
wedding, but she took me shoe shopping
and made me get these blinged out
heels instead of the white slipper
style shoes I liked that were only $10.
don't understand.
Made me get she's like, poles are
up to the front and is like, you're
wearing these on your wedding day.
So I'd be like.
No.
Yeah.
I think, I get it though.
I think some people have a hard time.
which I sometimes say I'm
like a natural people pleaser.
I'd have a hard time finding a
way to like tactfully say no.
but.
I think also like, yeah, sometimes,
especially with your own wedding, it's
like, yeah, I'm not wearing those shoes.
Thank you though.
That's so kind of you.
It's kind of you.
but I'm gonna politely decline.
Yeah, I'm sure it's like so
complicated seeing how she
reacted to the last wedding.
So she's like probably tiptoeing
totally to this mother-in-law.
Gosh, that's gotta be a nightmare.
Okay.
What was supposed to be a short
25 minute ceremony started to
feel like a full-blown production.
I was pregnant, emotional, and
just wanted to marry my husband,
eat a burger, and go home.
My parents offered to take us to an
Italian restaurant after the ceremony.
I wasn't thrilled about it, but my
husband really wanted to go, so I agreed.
I figured I'd settle for
ravioli instead of a burger.
They invited his mom, my best
friend, who was my witness, and
his brother, who was his witness.
The whole time at the restaurant,
his mom was making nasty comments
to his brother about his wife.
Oh my gosh.
So she still doesn't let this all go.
No.
I also wonder how between that wedding
and this one, how the relationship
was, if they were like, you know,
we're gonna keep our distance.
Or if we're like, oh, it didn't happen
to us, we're just gonna brush it off.
Because getting arrested and pulled
outta your son's wedding is a big deal.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
I
don't know.
there's a lot of missing pieces here.
Yeah.
He eventually got up and left.
Then she started in on my husband
saying he wasn't sticking up for her.
It got super awkward.
I finally said, it's our wedding day.
We just wanna celebrate
with the people we love.
She looked me dead in the face and
said, well, now I have no sons.
Are you happy now?
Oh
yeah.
I think, she's just a classic example
of the, boy moms we see on social
media, the ones who are a bit, Yeah.
Are never gonna be pleased with whoever
the other, it's weird to say the other
woman, but the wife is, yeah, essentially.
I think this is a lived experience
that many women have and it
feels like a no-win scenario.
I mean, obviously we don't
know the intricacies here.
We dunno what's going on from this story.
Mm-hmm.
It sounds like she feels like she's
losing quote, unquote losing her
sons to their wives, which like.
I think that's what's supposed to happen.
Yeah, they're adults.
so yeah, that's complicated for sure.
Yeah.
I just had a therapist on last, a couple
weeks ago, and there's a term for it.
It's no, I don't wanna butcher it and
like say the wrong thing, enmeshment.
Enmeshment.
Yes.
And she was like, it's
when they like can't see
their kids as separate people.
Mm-hmm.
Even when they're into, they're adults,
they feel like they always owe them,
or they always are connected in some
interesting way that's not Yeah.
Normal.
Yeah, not normal, but
I guess it's not, okay.
I was shocked in complete disbelief.
My husband calmly asked her to speak.
with her outside as they were heading out.
He told my best friend to
grab my coat and purse.
We got married in December
and bring them to him.
She followed and handed them to his mom.
Later he told me, he told her behavior
toward me, toward him, toward us was
completely unacceptable that she wasn't
going to ruin another wedding day.
He told her We needed a break.
There we go.
And that she had to accept that
her sons had found women they love.
She jumped in her car and sped off.
We went five months with
no contact after that.
The root of it all control.
She constantly tries to compete
with everyone financially,
emotionally, and otherwise.
That was nearly 14 years ago
and to this day, we still
have to take breaks from her.
So they're not no contact it
sounds like, but maybe low
contact.
I think some people go like low
contact with their parents, where
they engage with them when it feels
like they can and then otherwise.
take space from them.
I mean, that's really hard.
I think you hear about these stories
a lot of times, and I just dunno that
there's a healthy way to interact
with a person who's going to engage.
Even if I felt incredibly
wronged by somebody on their
wedding day, I would say nothing.
Mm-hmm.
no matter what, my sister, I don't care.
Like, I would say nothing.
I'd be like, that's for my
therapist for another day.
That's not, for now.
I think, people who don't have
that capacity, obviously, that's
a very different situation and
obviously I imagine for her
sons like so hard to navigate.
Mm-hmm.
that's gotta be so hard coming in as like
a daughter-in-law really excited to Marry
this person and having your in-law like
hate you just because you're with her son.
Yeah.
No other reason.
And you really can't win.
I feel like in a situation like
that, unless the mom goes to therapy
maybe, or like do some social
searching or something, I don't know.
that's just gotta be really challenging.
Yeah,
I can't imagine.
Yeah.
Honestly,
I'm proud of the husband because a lot
of these stories, you don't hear them
mention the fiance or partner or husband.
A lot of times it's just like their
personal story with the mother-in-law
or if it is a mother-in-law story
or the situation, and we're always.
Where are they in this story?
So I'm really glad that he like put his
foot down, was like, this is not okay.
Because you don't always hear
that in these stories because
it sounds like both of them did,
both brothers, stuck up for their partners
and I think that's really important.
You hear that a lot, which is I
have these awful in-laws and my
partner doesn't do anything about it.
And I think that's a really
difficult situation to be in.
So yeah, I think it's great
that both partners, stepped in.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, that was a wild, wild bunny story.
okay.
it's funny that we were talking about
eloping and stuff because when I
share these kinds of stories, people
are always like, oh, that's it.
I'm gonna elope.
And I think the important
lesson here is like.
Know your audience and know what you
and your partner want ultimately.
Mm-hmm.
Because I think eloping is a great idea.
I don't think everyone should elope,
but I think it just do whatever makes
sense for you and block out all the
noise because it's so easy to think like,
oh, my parents or my sister, or whoever
it is, wants this big wedding for us.
And then you do it and you're
like, that's not what I wanted.
And then it's, yeah.
Disappointing.
Yeah,
I think weddings have become this
like big, big, I mean, they've always
been a big thing, but I think now
too, in the age of social media,
it's like, what's the hashtag?
What's this?
What's that?
It doesn't matter at the end of the day.
And I think having a strong
partnership is ultimately.
The thing that you're gonna hold
onto for the rest of your life
is not gonna be that wedding day.
I will say I have friends who've
absolutely loved every single second
of their wedding and loved having one
and would do it a hundred times more.
And I think if you are that person
and you think that's going to be
you, you should absolutely do it.
Like do that.
And if you're not, that's okay.
And if it doesn't end up being the
best of your life, that's okay.
and this is not meant to sound, flippant,
I guess, or I don't know if that's the
right word, but as a wedding guest.
I couldn't tell you what somebody's
bouquet looked like seven days
later, let alone seven years later.
I don't remember, right?
I'm here ' cause I love you and
I wanna have a good time and I'm
gonna dance and I'm probably gonna
cry at your vows, but no one else
is nearly as invested as you are.
And I tell my friends all the time,
like when I'm a bridesmaid, I'm
like, don't worry about my pictures.
You're never gonna look at 'em again.
You're really not like, you're never
gonna look at this picture of you and
I in my bridesmaids dress again, you're
only gonna look at pictures of you and
your husband and maybe your family.
Yeah.
and that's just the truth.
Like at the end of the day, we're doing
it for us and our partner and there's
so much that goes into it that we stress
about, and it's like, no one else is
gonna remember this a week from now.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
So don't kill yourself.
Yeah.
No, I know.
It's like you hear people
getting stressed over like.
I mean the favor being, oh my gosh.
I was in a wedding once where
they were stressed about the way
the favor was on the plate, and I
was like, no one's gonna notice.
Let's not stress about that.
It's okay.
And they never know.
I didn't know what it was supposed to
be, so I don't know that it's wrong.
Exactly.
You know, like you're
the only one who knows.
And here's the thing, if a vendor has
royally messed up and you're paying a lot
of money for it, like you should care.
but in the sense that you should try
and get your money back, not in the
sense that like anybody else cares.
No, absolutely.
I would say it was kind of a blessing.
Like my husband and I, all our, like
good friends got married before us.
We were like one of the last ones.
And it'll allow us to see over the
years, like what we liked, what we
didn't like, and learn from brides too.
being like, oh, I wasted money on
this, or I really wish I would've done
this, or, I caved and did this when I
really sh you know, whatever that was.
Yeah.
And I feel like we chopped off a
bunch of people too that They wouldn't
have cared to be there or not.
And so I feel like we can learn
a lot from, observing, I guess.
Um, a hundred percent, yeah.
Okay.
I like to just end these
with, some confessions.
People send me their crazy
confessions in Instagram.
this one says, my fiance wants me
to remember the good times with the
in-laws, and I just don't think I can.
So that sounds like a.
maybe a bad relationship
maybe with the in-laws.
Yeah.
I mean, I think like you can't ask
somebody to do something that they
don't have the capacity to do.
So
it
is what it's, yeah.
That sounds like to me, without assuming
too much, it just sounds the son's
probably put in the middle of the in-laws.
Mm-hmm.
His wife not getting along and he
doesn't want to like, cause a barrier
or say no, and so he is just just
think of the good times, That's hard.
my sisters were so much drama
at my wedding then got mad when
I didn't want to be at theirs.
Oh, that's hard.
yeah.
That's tough.
last one says I have to invite
someone I hate because she's the
wife my fiance's best friend.
Yeah, I think you do have to invite
her kind of, Ooh, I don't know.
It's tricky.
I would say if something has actually
transpired between the two of you and
she is a person who's caused you harm.
You don't need to, and like your
partner should be the one to have that
conversation with his best friend.
Yeah.
If you just don't like her, you
just don't vibe, you don't like her
energy or who she is as a person,
I think that's slightly different.
If somebody's caused you direct harm,
it been unkind to you, you shouldn't
have to have them at your wedding.
If.
It's just that you just don't like them.
You're not gonna notice her.
Again, going back to the, like, if
you have a hundred people at your
wedding and you hate one of them for
no real reason, and I'm not saying you
do, but if that's what it is and it's
like, just don't pay attention to her.
just ignore her.
you.
You don't have to interact.
There's enough people
there to buffer that.
It doesn't have to impact your day.
Yeah, no, that's a really good point.
And I wanna say, I'll try to say
it so it's not like too obvious,
but I have to say something
similar happened at our wedding.
I wouldn't say hate, of course, I
don't hate anybody but someone in our
wedding that's like really close with
my husband started dating someone.
I knew from my childhood
that was just kinda like a
bully, not like a nice person.
Yeah.
And when I found, I was like, oh,
we have to give him a plus one.
I know he's gonna bring her.
And it was just kinda uncomfortable,
awkward, not nice person, but I
just like put my feelings aside
with it and it ended up being fine.
Like, oh good.
It ended up being fine.
Totally fine.
She was awesome.
And I feel like it was just me
kind of holding onto some like
childhood thing of like, okay, I
don't know how this is gonna go.
And it was fine.
Yeah.
Um, that's good.
So, I don't know, not saying recommend
to like all of a sudden let it go.
'cause we don't know what happened
with these people, but just Right.
Totally.
well thank you so much for coming on.
I feel like we kind of jumped
all over the place because I'm
like, oh, let's talk weddings and,
Mental load.
But I feel like there's so many important
conversations to have and I was just
telling someone, like I started by
just sharing wedding stories on here.
'cause that's what I do in my content.
But I feel like it's so much more
complicated than just wedding.
There's relationships,
there's new relationships,
dynamics, that kind of thing.
And it all ties into so much more.
So thank you for coming on.
Thanks for having me.
Can you again just tell everybody
where they can follow you, what kind
of content you share, and anything
interesting or fun you're working on?
Yeah, sure.
I share content on modern marriage and
motherhood and what that looks like in
relation to gender equity, and you can
follow me on pretty much every social
media platform at, she's a page turner.
I also have a website.
She's a page turner.com, a
substack, all the things, and so.
if you Google it, you'll find me.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
It was awesome chatting with you.
Thank you.
I.