hello everyone
and welcome to another episode of Selling Greenville
your favorite real estate podcast here in Greenville
South Carolina I'm your host as always
Stan McCune Realtor right here in Greenville
South Carolina and as always
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today we're going to be talking about
a little bit different topic right
well I've never covered this before
but I think it's a worthwhile topic
why people are leaving Greenville in 2025
not everyone is coming to Greenville right
you hear all the time about why
people are coming to Greenville
but there are people leaving Greenville
I've had my own clients leave Greenville
and so this happens
and there are usually very specific reasons
why people do end up leaving Greenville
some of these people are
people that have lived here for a long time
and then decide to leave some are people that come here
realize it wasn't really what I thought it was gonna be
and then they leave
and there are just a whole lot of different reasons
why this happened so we're just gonna jump in
I've got 10 reasons why people are leaving Greenville
in 2025 and the first one is this
they're going to Spartanburg and Anderson counties
rather than Greenville County
so specifically worded this
leaving Greenville specifically
not just the upstate Greenville specifically
and you would be shocked
how many people are leaving Greenville County
and moving to Spartanburg County
or Anderson County
and the proof is in the pudding for
for me
I you know
I could pull up
you know actual stats about this as well
but for me personally
about half my closings the past two years
have been in Spartanburg or Andersen County
and that is a huge increase
from what it had been in previous years
I had never been
working in those two counties
nearly as much as I have the past couple of years
and there's a lot of reasons for that
of course housing affordability is one of the main ones
right Spartanburg County and Anderson County are both
more affordable counties in general
than Greenville County and so
as Greenville County has really taken off in terms of
of pricing the past few years
which if you've been following it
you know I mean
basically the medium price point has gone from 200 to
almost 3:50 just about overnight
Spartanburg and Anderson have not seen
those levels of increases
now some of you are listening
you're saying well
what's in Spartanburg County
what's Anderson County
I think it's really important to understand
you know
all of these places in South Carolina have a county
and a city Greenville has a city
Greenville's also a county
there's Spartanburg City and there's Spartanburg County
there's Anderson City there's Anderson County
the differences between the cities and the counties
are huge okay
um and so when you hear me talk about the counties
don't conflate them with the cities
all right because you might have some presuppositions
about the cities now for my
in my personal opinion
when I go into Spartanburg City or
or Anderson City
I have good experiences there
um but I know some people that have
have a a negative opinion on those cities
I would say give it another chance
go visit a few stores
go to a few restaurants in those areas and
and let me know
Spartanburg and Anderson are both behind Greenville in
in terms of development in terms of the type
the sorts of businesses that they have and
and all of that sort of stuff
but they're not falling behind
they are just behind a few decades
because Greenville just went so far
so fast but they're keeping up
you know it's kind of like if you're on a walk
it the difference between someone that is going
that is
in front of you and going faster than you
versus someone that you're keeping up with
but you're just perpetually 20 feet behind
that's kind of
what Spartanburg and Anderson County are like
in relationship
to Greenville
and a lot of people are moving there into
moving to those counties and having a great time
um people don't realize
you know a lot of the questions that I get
relate to school districts
I have to be very careful
from a fair housing perspective
on how I answer those questions
but I'll say this
there's award winning school districts in Spartanburg
and Anderson County
and some people specifically target
those school districts
um there are incredibly nice neighborhoods
nice golf courses
nice parks in excuse me in all of those counties
um now Greenville of course has Falls Park right
and Greenville has Unity Park and Greenville has
you know the main arena that we have here
Greenville
you you're never gonna get rid of Greenville
but you can commute right
the most places in Spartanburg
Anderson County
are within 30 minutes of downtown Greenville
um there it's all connected via I eighty five
um and so people
some people are just finding you know what
it just makes sense
for me to go to one of these other counties
I think that that's going to continue
as Greenville County keeps
trying to limit the amount of development
that we can have in Greenville
that's going to continue to hurt
housing affordability in Greenville
and that's gonna
continue to push people to the other counties
um and so that's just what's gonna happen but listen
if you're interested in Spartanburg or Anderson County
don't feel bad
and don't think you need to contact another agent
I can certainly help you in those counties
um No. 2 reason why people are leaving agree
by the way these are in no particular order
these are just in the order I wanted them to be in okay
the second reason I came up with
was the potential for Hurricane Helene 2.0
by now people have heard about Hurricane Helene
mostly what
what the Hurricane did in western North Carolina
but there was destruction in Greenville as well
and that caused some people to decide
you know what I want to go somewhere
where I never have to experience something like this
again where I never have to experience
multiple weeks without electricity again
where I never have to experience this level of flooding
and windstorms and all of that ever again
I just want to get away from it
I completely understand that
but understand that that was a
basically a once in 500 year event
I mean we never have Gulf storms
that hit us with that kind of ferocity
it just doesn't happen it was very rare I
you know if
if you want to say well
with climate change it
it might be less rare possibly
but again for it the
it was a unique confluence of events
remember
that we had had rain for weeks
leading up to the hurricanes
there was nowhere for the water to go
then there's a straight line wind that was coming in
over 100 miles per hour in some areas
super duper unique
the dynamic with the way the Hurricane hit the mountain
and all of that it was just really a
a strange period of time
and then of course
just all of those power lines getting knocked over
all at once it
it was just it was a lot now
a lot of the trees that knocked over the power lines
that caused a lot of issues a
a lot of the
the trees that were susceptible to wind damage
are gone now
so long story short
I can understand the last reason right
for housing affordability
why some people are leaving Greenville
if you're concerned about hurricanes in general
you shouldn't be in the southeast
like we do get hurricanes
they're just not Helene was unique in that it
it caused a tremendous amount of
disruption to everyday life around here
and caused a lot of property damage
but that's really really unusual for Greenville County
to have a Hurricane that impacts us like that
um it's the only time in my life that I've experienced
electricity being out for more than 48 hours
um and of course
it was out for several
for several weeks for a lot of people
and so that that left an imprint in their head
I wouldn't get too excited about that
I do believe that
that's going to be an event that is going to be a
once in a lifetime for probably all of us
knock on wood and I'm not
not gonna say it's a prediction
what I think
but I don't personally think that that's a reason to
to leave Greenville at this point
but some people are No. 3
some people say it's too hot
others say it's too cold okay
I literally had one client that said
one time I like the snow
and Greenville doesn't get enough of it
and I'll be honest I
I kind of agree with that sentiment
I like the snow as well
I would like to see snow at least
I like to see at least once a year
that there's snow that accumulates and kind of
shuts things down for a day or two right
that's I'm okay with that
I I don't need to have like
massive blizzards or anything like that
let's just get snow that accumulates for
for a day
and kind of shuts things down for a day or two
that's like ideal that doesn't happen most years okay
most years the snow that we get
you know
we'll get some at night and then by like 9:00am
it's already melted away
um and so some people don't like that
I had another client that said
the weather here feels hotter than Texas
and if you come at the wrong time of the year yes
it will feel that way
there are times of the year where the weather will
will get a warm front that comes in and it'll
you know be a hundred plus degrees outside
there are times of year where we'll have
a cold front that comes in
and it'll be 10 15 degrees outside
Greenville does have those high
temperature stretches and low temperature stretches
but they tend to be short right the
the period of time where it's usually above 100 degrees
usually only a couple of weeks
same thing with when the
the temperatures go down into the teens
usually at max a couple of weeks and then we're past it we get
basically 9 really nice 8 to 9 really
really nice months of weather
a couple really hot a couple really cold
and the other eightyish
months tend to be really nice
but for some people some people prefer warmer
some people prefer colder
I completely understand that
no reason No.
4 that I've heard from people
is that they prefer the beaches over mountains
and lakes in Greenville
we have a lot of great mountains
right in Greenville proper is Paris Mountain State Park we have
if you go into the northern parts of Greenville County
and the surrounding counties as well
there's mountains up there
great beautiful mountainous
that area
that continues into the Appalachian Mountains
in North Carolina really
really nice and there's tons of lakes everywhere right
we've got Lake Hartwell we've got Lake Kiwi
we've got smaller lakes like Lyman Lake
and Lake Bowen and
you got undeveloped like Jocose and in the northwest
there's all sorts of fantastic lakes around here
but for some people that's not good enough
and I get it it's not the beach
but if you're wanting to live near a beach
you're wanting something that's
that's a completely different vibe
then the Greenville vibe right
that's you know
typically more touristy
that's typically or if it's not more touristy
it's gonna be more like off the beaten path
you know like if
if you go to like
a beach area like Edisto for instance
which
which my family you know
we really like to go there
it's kind of in the middle of nowhere right there
there's just not a whole lot
in and around Edisto proper
except for the beach
um and so I would say if
if you're if you're wanting the beach
you're wanting something different
than just what Greenville is
in general
and some people decide that some people decide
you know what I like that more touristy
type of type of environment
just because I like to see waves crash
and again
I completely understand that that's just every
we all have different preferences
it doesn't have to be make sense or be logical
it's just a preference
but for those that prefer mountains and lakes
that is something that
we have a lot to offer in this area and
and even more if you're willing to do little day trips
um and so that's
that's a great option also waterfalls
tons of waterfalls
obviously the Falls Park right in downtown Greenville
um but there's tons of waterfalls all over the place
in the northern part of the county as well
if you're into that
we did a podcast
did an interview with the Honey Badger a few weeks ago
check that out Thomas Maybury
on this show
where we talked about different places to hike and
and find waterfalls
No. 5 reason that I hear people leaving Greenville for
is that it's either too urban or too rural okay
if you're sensing a little bit of a
a little bit of a theme on some of these
it's that for some people
Greenville kind of doesn't check
you know either boxes
it's not cold enough for some people
and it's not hot enough for some people
it's too urban for some people
it's too rural for some people
and here's the thing right
at the end of the day
you either are
are used to like a more big city environment
and Greenville doesn't feel that way okay
me I'm originally now I've lived in
in Greenville now for what
21 years I'm originally from New Jersey
I'm used to density I'm used to traffic
I'm used to all of that kind of stuff I
in my formative years I grew up in that OK
um Greenville does not feel urban to me
but for those that that grew up in the country right
my wife is from very
very rural Alabama Greenville to her and to
to her family it's the city okay
it's urban now I mean she's now lived here as well
for the majority of her life
so it doesn't feel urban anymore
but again when she first moved here
it was like my goodness
Greenville is a big city
and for some people it's too big
for some people it is too small or
or feels too out there now again
you're not gonna feel like it's
it's too rural when you're in downtown Greenville right but
there are parts of Greenville County that get really
really rural and I mean
you can be in an incredibly rural area
just 20 minutes from downtown Greenville
it changes that quickly
and so a lot of this also depends on
you know areas that people have
have been in and are familiar with in the area
I'm obviously very very familiar with Greenville County
in the greater Greenville area
and my opinion is that it's
it's not too urban or too rural
obviously I'm a realtor
so I that that's going to be my opinion
but I think it's a good mix right
because it's not this sprawling city
downtown Greenville is pretty well contained
but at the same time it's not
it's not just farmland everywhere
you can get to a grocery store
you can get to shopping you can get to downtown
you can get to parks everywhere pretty
pretty quickly
no matter where you are in Greenville County
so I think it's great from that standpoint
most people come to that conclusion
but there are some people that conclude
you know what it's
it's too rural or it's too urban
and they're unhappy with that
number six rapid gentrification
now I don't want to get political in terms of
I'm not gonna have the political discussion
on gentrification
but this is a housing affordability thing that
that does happen
that people do get pushed out of their homes
out of their neighborhoods
and sometimes that means just leaving completely right
they might get gentrified straight out of Greenville
and that is happening whether it's true gentrification
or simply just people making the decision that
you know what prices have gotten so expensive now I
I can't afford it I'm gonna have to
I'm gonna have to find another place to live
you know that
might not fit the technical
term of gentrification for some people
um but I think that
that's all qualifies
under what I am specifically talking about on the show
and it's just an affordability thing right
we've talked about this so much
the Housing Affordability Index
tells us that housing is not affordable
in Greenville we cover the housing affordability index
every single month it needs to be at 100 or above
it's consistently trending below 100
since mortgage rates have gone up
now once mortgage rates come down
if and when Fannie Mae
just came out or Fannie Mae and
the Mortgage Bankers Association
both just came out with projections for mortgage rates
that they don't think that they're going to go below 6%
even within
even in all of 2026
so that would be a a major damper
right on the housing affordability
if mortgage rates continued to stay above 6%
that's starting to become consensus in
among a lot of
major players in
in in the business of projecting these sorts of things so
that will just mean that there's going to be more
affordability issues more gentrification issues and
and this problem is here to stay
and this is why I frequently
people frequently think that I am a
a pro development guy
that just want them to build houses everywhere
that's not true but the answer also
when you've got housing that's affordable
the answer isn't to put your head in the sand
and just say well
building more housing is out of the question
because we already have too many houses here
if people can't afford their houses
that means we don't have enough supply right
that means demand is still too high for supply
even with the market softening right
we've talked about that a lot
even with the market softening
prices still aren't going down
okay so
that's something
that we have to take into consideration
that's the reason why some people are having to leave
Greenville County number seven
some people want a house in an urban area
but not a condo in an urban area
or a house in the suburbs
this is something I've gotten multiple times before
where people think okay
Greenville is
is a place where you can buy fairly cheap housing
and it has a great downtown that has restaurants
and has breweries and has a lot of stuff to do
you know
one of the top producing this is a random fact
but it's great downtown
Greenville has one of the top producing
Lululemon stores in the entire country
you know
obviously great park and all that so people think they
they put these two things together and they think well
I'm gonna move to Greenville
and eventually
what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna find a house
that's in walking distance
to all these cool things in downtown Greenville well
that's really hard that's really hard
there's not a lot of residential housing left
that allows you to be right in downtown Greenville
there is still some generally in historic districts
if you count the North Main
neighborhood as being in downtown Greenville
it's for me it's kind of questionable to
to lump that into downtown
but it's close OK it's definitely bikeable
to everything is it walkable
um not on a whim
you need to prepare to walk from some parts of
from the
you know the
the kind of further out parts of
of the North Main neighborhood
into downtown Greenville proper
in in my personal opinion
and so some people they move here
they don't fully understand that dynamic
and they decide you know what this
this isn't what I was expecting I was expecting
I wanted a again we
it it's a little bit
a little bit overlap with the two urban
or two rural discussion
but these people aren't saying that it's too rural
they just don't want to be in the suburbs
they want to be able to have a house
that's in the suburbs but is in
downtown Greenville and that just doesn't exist right
that's not the way downtown is structured downtown
if you want to live downtown
the city of Greenville wants you to live in a condo
because that is how they've
they've made downtown
that's how they've made housing downtown
it's worked up to this point
they've converted all of those houses
if you're if you're looking on a map and you're like
well there's tons of houses everywhere
they converted almost all of those
into commercial real estate
a lot of attorney offices
a lot of other small little businesses
and that's just the reality of the situation
so if you want a house
you're gonna live in the suburbs most likely
if you want to be in downtown Greenville
you're gonna be living in a condo most likely
there's not a lot of opportunity to have your cake
and eat it with both of those things
No.8 the cost of a large
custom home is very expensive in Greenville
compared to other areas
especially if you want a good lot or land okay
and here's where this comes into play again
it's similar
I run into this with people that move here in order to
move here from out of state and they think
okay here's what I'm gonna do I'm gonna
I'm gonna live in a in a you know
in a rental for a little bit
or I'm gonna buy a house as like a stopgap
live there for a couple years
buy some land build on the land and
and then have my custom home that I'll
that I'll live for the rest of my life
they don't realize when they get into that process
that it's actually very expensive
in in Greenville right now to build a custom home
and by a custom home
I mean not by one of these production builders
you know that that you see
you know their signs all over the place that they're
that they're building these big neighborhoods
I'm talking about a truly custom home
where you're able to design the floor plan the layout
design everything
which is what most people want to do right
when they when they're building their own home
they don't want to just select from you know
five potential floor plans that a builder might offer
what's the point of going custom
if it's not truly custom if it's only semi custom
and they don't realize that oftentimes
these builders that are truly custom
even if they're not a luxury builder
it's oftentimes still gonna be
you know between 250 and 350 dollars a square foot
do the math
you're talking about 3,000 square foot house
you're talking about maybe a million dollars
and that's not even
counting how much you're paying for the lot
and that's a whole that's a whole another thing right
cause most people when they build custom homes
they want to be either on
have some acreage or they want it to be a really
really prime location
well that's gonna cost some money too
that'll probably be
you know between 100 to 300 thousand dollars
and so this is something that I frequently run into now
people will say well
what about like resale custom homes right
cause we do have those
it's not like every custom home has just been built
in the past 2 years
there are there are plenty of homes that were
custom homes that were built years and years ago and
and they those can be cheaper
except that most of them that were built
were built like 30ish years ago and
and they're just extremely dated at this point
got the you know that old red and gold wallpaper
they got
you know the granite colors that nobody likes anymore
back splashes that nobody likes anymore
carpet that's worn out and
and nasty all sorts of different things like that
and so people come here and
and they're just like there is not a great
market for custom or luxury homes
that's what some people conclude and then they decide
you know what I can get you know
I can get a $5,000
unbelievable home on multiple acres of land
in the wilderness in Colorado
that's within like 45 minute drive to Denver
why won't I do that rather than getting something if
if we had something like that in Greenville
it would be I I've
trust me I've seen it
I've seen some of these like
some of these homes that athletes bought for
like $2 million in
in some unbelievable areas
in Colorado in
oh I don't know in
in a variety of
of different states where it's not that far from a city
um but it
it's in a really cool area and they
you know have incredible pools
and basketball courts and what not
they bought it for like 2 million dollars
the same house I look at I'm like
that house in Greenville would be a 10 million dollar
house okay
the luxury housing market in Greenville is expensive
and the custom home market here in Greenville is
is quite frankly pretty expensive
people need to come to grips with that
need to make sure that you actually know what your
what your budget is prior to coming here and
and make sure that your budget's realistic
No.9 politics
now this isn't a situation where
where some of the other ones where it was like well
it's either too hot or too cold
or too urban or too rural
no Greenville is not too progressive for some
and too conservative for others
there is not a lot of progressiveness
in terms of political progressiveness in Greenville
now Greenville City is a more democratic leaning
city right
our city council has several Democrats on it
I think it might be a majority Democrat
even though you know city
city politics isn't super duper
like the political affiliation
doesn't tend to make a huge difference
per se makes a little difference
but it makes more of a difference on the state level
but for the most part state and county level is quite
quite conservative
and if you are not comfortable with that
again no judgment if
if you don't like those politics
you're going to be uncomfortable
and I know several people that have come here and
and have decided you know what
the politics of
of Greenville and the politics of South Carolina
it just does not work for me for whatever reason maybe
maybe it's just too in your face on
on you know
with the with the Trump flags
um which again
if you're in downtown Greenville
you're not gonna see that very much
if you're in certain parts of
of Greenville County you might see it a lot more
it just depends
it's not I don't wanna paint broad strokes
you're gonna see political flags everywhere
that's not true in fact
as I'm driving around right now
when we don't have elections
I'm not seeing very many at all but
but for people that are really sensitive to that
they might feel like you know
it's kind of like when you buy a
a new car that you've never
a car that you've never had before
you see that car everywhere and it's the same thing if
if you're like triggered by a certain political thing
you're gonna see it everywhere
and I know people that have
have been that way and felt that way
and have ultimately decided to move because of that
and so if
if you are very very
it progressive politically
you might want to consider that that might not work
now for a lot of people that are moving here
that's like a big positive
most people that moved to Greenville
they already know why you
you know
they already know what the political situation is
in the southeast right
it's not a secret
nobody you know
is afraid that we're letting the cat out of the bag
that cat was out of the bag years and years ago
but the fact that some people still decide to
the reality is that some people still decide
to come here anyway and then later realize
you know what I
I don't feel
I feel more comfortable in a city that's like
super duper progressive and more power to you
No. 10and this is gonna be the final one
why people are leaving Greenville in 2025
is that Greenville can lack
certain large city amenities
now one of the things that we talk about with Greenville
often is that Greenville is a small town feel
with big town amenities but that being said
there are still
are some city amenities that are missing right
professional sports teams right
the big ones we
we do have some professional sports teams
we do have you know
for instance single
a baseball we've got the Greenville Drive
we do have
minor league hockey here we do have professional soccer
there are professional sports teams
but we don't have an NFL team
we don't have an NHL team
we don't have an NBA team
we don't have a baseball team
I'm not a baseball guy
we don't have any of those in the
in the major leagues or
or the national
the National Football League
National Hockey League National NBA
Basketball Association
we don't have any of those things right
you've got to you know
drive usually an
hour and a half to two and a/2 hours to Charlotte
or Atlanta or in the case of hockey
you've got to drive even further
either to like Raleigh or Nashville
until they put a team in Atlanta so
you've got to go somewhere
to get to a professional sports team
now we do have great college sports
um of course
Clemson lost as I'm recording this
they lost over the weekend to nobody's surprise
since they've underwhelmed now for a few years but
you know obviously
the college sports scene is big
and it's like a professional sports scene
but if you're like me
and you really like professional sports
it is a bummer that you have to
to do a day trip to go see a game
um major concerts we
we is it that's one of those other things that
that we hear people complain about that there's not
you know as many major concerts
there's not as s many major comedians
um it's getting better
I do feel like
I just went to see
comedian Tom Segura he's a big time
pretty big time comedian
you can find his specials all over the place
on Netflix and
and other places
but we don't get as many obviously
as a big city does right
for the most part if you want to see
you know a big band
like if you want to see you know
couples committing adultery at Coldplay concerts
odds are
you're not gonna see Coldplay here in Greenville
for the most part
but we have had some good stuff
in Greenville
I know the Prince was here way back in the day
one Republic did a really cool end of summer
concert with need to breathe
need to breathe is a green
or an upstate of South Carolina based band that
if you haven't heard of them they
they produce some
some good folk rock kind of stuff
and I mean
there's been a bunch of other
Smash Mouth was here a couple of years ago
for July 4th and so forth and so on
on the comedian scene as you can tell I like comedy
Aziz Ansari was in
Spartanburg actually earlier this year
we went and saw him in Spartanburg
that was very interesting
it was it was he's actually from South Carolina
which I had forgotten and
and so that that created for some
some interesting jokes so
so anyway the
the other thing that I hear like large city wise from
from people sometimes is that
you know our
our international airport that we have
that straddles Greenville and Spartanburg
the Greenville Spartanburg Airport very creative name
that airport
really doesn't have a lot of cheap flights
like most of the flights are
are expensive now again
this is getting better
they're starting to attract more
of the budget rate airlines
which is the way I think that
that industry is kind of going in anyway
but there's still a long way to go
if you wanna travel internationally
you're generally speaking
not gonna go Greenville direct
you're gonna have to connect Charlotte or Atlanta
maybe Chicago
maybe Philly you know
you're gonna be connecting somewhere
before you go on your way
and it's gonna be more expensive
than if you'd just gone direct
from Atlanta or Charlotte
more often than not
so that's just the reality of
of traveling out of Greenville
like I said
they've done they've made good improvements
I think really the future for Greenville is more
those budget airlines
and so I hope they continue to attract them
but that said even though
Greenville does have a lot of great amenities
for the size that Greenville is right
um it it's tremendous amenities
but it's still not on par with a big
big city when it comes to a few of these categories
and for some people
they get in here and they're just like
you know what this feels slow it feels sleepy
the city shuts down at like 10 or eleven PM
which is true by the way
and if you're if you're looking for
for stuff where there's just more happening
where there's more stuff to do where there's
you know a
a professional sports teams doing things
and we can get out and
and fly to other countries on on a whim and
and there's a great option of flights and all of that
Greenville might not be the best place for you
so that's why people are leaving Greenville in 2025
um I hope that that was helpful for you guys
if you have any questions for me
there might be some follow up questions from this one
let me know my contact information is in the show notes
I'm happy to answer any questions you might have
if you're looking for a Greenville Realtor
because you're leaving
or because you're coming or because you're staying
I can help you out with that
my contact info again in the show notes
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and I will talk to you guys again next time!