>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work with the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s and I used to live in a

Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect on

what's happening both to us and around us.

This podcast is meant to help you take a moment to stop

and think about where you are, where you're going,

and where your relationship with God fits into it all.

Every week, I meet a new guest who tells me about something they

experienced which changed their life forever. And

by talking about the things they wish they'd known at the time,

we'll explore the idea that God is in all things.

And we'll talk about the part that faith plays in navigating

life's challenges.

Today I'm speaking to Georgia, who's a youth minister

at Saint Elizabeth of Portugal Parish. And she's

also part of Catholic Voices, which was established in

2010 and to promote the Catholic Church,

particularly in laity. Georgia is

speaking about her experience of discernment

and of saying yes to God, particularly when it came to being a youth

minister. I really love in this episode talking

to Georgia about how she trusted God in making her big

life decisions. So, Georgia, what

do you do now?

>> Georgia: So I really work in the area of youth

ministry and parish renewal. My time is split with

both. So on Sundays and Mondays, there's a lot

of youth ministry happening in the parish. We have over

100 young people now in our little parish in

Richmond between the ages of 2 and 18, who are

involved in the youth ministry in some way. And I absolutely

love it. Our young people are so

incredible. They have, exemplary faith

and they challenge me in ways that I wasn't

expecting. And then within parish renewal,

really learning about what the heart is of the church right now, what

laity are looking for, perhaps what the clergy are

struggling with, what they are enjoying,

what gives them a lot of life. That part of

the job where I work within the Archdiocese of Southwark, is

really interesting and gives me a lot to pray about.

>> Julia: So what were you doing before you went into youth ministry?

>> Georgia: So, I was studying. I actually came to London to do a master's in

medical ethics and law. So

quite the diversion, during lockdown. this was the

second year of my master's degree, and

everything, obviously was at home. And our parish priest said

to me, would you like to do a little zoom

call for the teenagers? Because they're on their own, they're

isolated from their friends and think it'd be great

if there was some way that we could engage them with the faith while

they're alone. And I was

finishing up my studies so thought,

absolutely, that sounds great. I just did like an hour zoom

call voluntarily and

loved it. It wasn't for anything, it wasn't for a

confirmation course, it wasn't with any

particular end in mind. And so when lockdown was lifted, I

took those. I think there were only about six teenagers at the time.

I took those six on a retreat and

the Holy Spirit really showed up and all of them,

I think really came to know and love God in a way that, yeah,

I just knew it couldn't have been anything that I did. So

it made me really excited. And then

my parish priest, Father Stephen, he asked if I would consider

thinking about how we might expand youth ministry in the parish.

And then almost like overnight I had this 12 page

proposal on how to expand youth ministry and do

like a whole almost cradle to university

type ministry. And I gave it to him, like,

someone should do this. And then he just looked at me and

was like, yeah, you should.

>> Julia: So was ministry something you'd considered before then?

>> Georgia: Well, I st. My first degree was in philosophy and theology

but it was mainly because I just loved the faith. I

fell in love when I did actually my own confirmation.

I was never brought up going to church. My parents aren't,

practising. Christians would even say

they're atheists, or at least my dad would say,

he's an atheist. And so when it

came to do my confirmation, it was really my grandmother, my mum's

mum, who said to me, you know, you're about the right age, do

you want to do confirmation? And I was like, what's

that? I had no idea. And so went along

and ended up being part of a youth group that was just

so formative for me and had a youth leader

who would answer my questions and we'd have

tea and coffee together and she really mentored

me and we ended up making a little mission team when I

was in sixth form. And that was really my only

experience of ministry in that sense. It was

just that at university I also trained as a speaker with Catholic

Voices and that was, that was a really, I

think a kind of life changing moment. Yeah,

it gave me a lot of confidence to share my faith and

public speaking before to me was petrifying and I

didn't really want to do it. But through the training

and through meeting the people that

I did through Catholic Voices. I was like, okay, the church

is somewhere where I could possibly step into

work. But honestly, I just didn't see a

place for me. I started working with Catholic

Voices when I was studying around the same time that I started in the

parish as well. So God did a lot during this time

to kind of like, pave the way, because I don't think I could have

imagined it for myself.

>> Julia: So when your parish priest said, yeah, you do this,

how did you feel about that?

>> Georgia: I think that there's this emotion that Christians

will understand when the Holy Spirit is nudging you. You have this,

like, nervous excitement.

And I always, at least that's how I describe it in

myself, I'm like, so nervous because this is brand

new, but there's such an excitement there of what this could

be. And knowing that you're not doing it by yourself or your own

effort, I think gives you a confidence to say

yes or just, why not?

In my head, it was. It was like I. I could give the first

fruits of my career to the Lord before I

then become a lawyer and obviously earn, my, my

money. and instead what I realised is that

this was a gift of the Lord to me, not so much the other

way around, because God could have asked anybody to lead this

ministry and yet he asked me because he knew that it would

bless me. And yes, it has demanded something from me,

but it's just been such a gift.

>> Julia: So what was it like, discerning God's like,

calling to you?

>> Georgia: Well, at the time when I first moved to

London, I was living with three other girls and we had

a great time. And during lockdown, we were all together and we made, like,

a fun jar of activities we could do

together. And, the time came to renew our

flat lease and we all prayed the surrender

novena, which really should come with a health warning, I think,

because that novena changes your life and

nobody warned you. and it was like on the last

day of the novena, I was driving and lots

of my prayer happens in my car. I was driving

and I really felt like I heard God's

voice say, you're going to

move out of the flat and live alone with me. And

it was such a conviction that I had that it was him,

that I couldn't respond in any other way except with

joy, because I know he's good. I think that's

such a solid foundation for when you're discerning. You got to

know that he's good and that you can trust him.

So often we think he's going to ask something of us. It's going to make us

miserable, demand more than we can give.

Well, yes, he's going to demand more than you can give because

he's going to give you what you need. But it's

not going to make you miserable. It

isn't going to ruin your life. So when I

heard that voice I was like, okay again.

Ah, that nervous excitement kind of set in. And I remember

saying back to the Lord, like, I'm not even going to have to find

this place, am I? I just knew for some reason he was going to provide

it all and just pave the way. This

was a rare occurrence. I must say this right. My

prayer life is not just a two way conversation

constantly. It's probably the most

powerful moment of prayer I've had in my life. And it's so

simple as well. Just in my car, you're going to move out.

And so over the next few weeks I still held

this conviction that I'd heard that voice clearly. But

what God also did was confirm it to me

through everything I was reading, through conversations I was having,

it was almost overwhelming how many times he confirmed

that that was what he had asked. And

I was reading a book at the time called God

Conversations and every chapter just seemed to speak

to how I was feeling and exactly where I was at. I

was even scrolling on TikTok and I saw

a man riding a penny farthing. And I

just thought this was beautiful and quaint

and followed him because, you know, it was

just really sweet. I hadn't really seen someone ride a penny farthing

before. This is completely unrelated to faith as well.

And then the next day I was reading my book

and the chapter was called On My Own and I

thought, well that's apt. And in that

chapter she describes how she'd had a vision in prayer of a

penny farthing and how God

was the big wheel and we are invited to be this

small wheel behind no stabilisers, there's nothing

else, it's just you and the Lord. And I thought, wow, that's

really cool because I saw this TikTok yesterday and then

fast forward like two or three weeks and

at this point I'd already tried to find my own

flat because time was running out as ah, the Lord does,

sometimes does everything last minute and

still, even when I put an offer in at the asking

price it was rejected and I just said, okay,

fine, it's over to you. And I was in a little area

in south West London and a family member text me

to say, I don't suppose you're looking for a flat

because a friend of mine, the sale's just fallen through and

it was in the exact same area that I was in. I was

literally a five minute walk away. So I knew before

I even stepped inside the flat that this was probably where

the Lord had prepared for me. And so went in,

fell in love with it, felt very, very happy

just in the space and kind

of signed on the dotted line, went away. Then I

went on a retreat in Salzburg. I, I was

with the, Loretto community and they have a house of prayer there.

And it was on the way back, we actually went via Munich.

So we're going through centre of the city and I'm

getting on the plane and the next day moving into this flat

and I look out the window and there's a man riding a

penny farthing.

>> Julia: Wow.

>> Georgia: And so for me, I was just like, okay, again, confirmation

that the discernment

was just so obvious on this occasion,

that this is where God wants me to be. But that hasn't always

been the case.

>> Julia: The question I often get from people is, who may

be agnostic or atheist, is what if all of that is just

a coincidence?

>> Georgia: It would be pretty incredible if it were.

And, and the truth is you could explain it like that,

but there's just too many things that line had to line up

for that to be the case, including the

conviction that it wasn't. Because

there are things in my life that are coincidences. And I'm like, yeah, okay.

And some people, some Christians would argue nothing's a coincidence, like

God has obviously ordained everything. And I

think that's true. And also there are things that

just happen that maybe we can learn from.

but there, on this particular occasion, there are so many.

It was like I would read an email that

would perfectly describe my physical sensations at

the time. And then a friend would also call me and say, like, I'm

praying for you and I'm getting this sensation that they wouldn't even

have known about me. So it wasn't just the

penny farthing story. There were lots

of other little things that were also happening

that were really obvious to me. It

was just purely obvious. I thought to myself, I could never

deny the existence of God after this experience.

But of course it wasn't so obvious.

He didn't like, write me a letter.

He always leaves room for faith, always. Because there's freedom

in that relationship. Then.

>> Julia: That's so true. There's so many times I wish God would just write me

a letter. And be like, julia, just do this. Something you said

earlier about that God doesn't ruin your life. I think all

God does is ruin your own plans. When you get in so in your

own head, when, like you were saying about the flat or the house

and that you wanted, you were going to put an offer in and get it sorted.

And then God was like, no, no, follow

me. so when you're kind of in your own

plans and you're thinking, and then God goes,

here's the option, I want you to go down. How

do you learn to trust God in

that moment?

>> Georgia: I think it's really hard because you can

know in your head that God is good. But trusting and

using your feet to then follow is a whole other thing.

And I think people don't often talk about the

battle that then goes on to overcome your past life

experiences, sins, your

personality. I had a kind of tough

time making the transition and I often make, I have

a tough time making transitions in life.

I don't think that's a unique experience. But yeah, it certainly

m wasn't easy. And there were times when I really was

relying on the prayers of my friends. And Psalm

139, I listened to like every night because I found it

hard to get to sleep. I didn't know I was going to live. I didn't know what work

was going to look like. Even though I knew that this was the right

path, it didn't look pretty on the

way there. because you take so much of your past with

you wherever you go. And I think that's why it's

so important to pursue your relationship with God, even

in the daily, kind of mundane, day to

day life because he,

he has so many good things for you

that he wants you to be ready for. And

the truth is, I don't think that we often are ready

for them.

>> Julia: What you just said kind of reminds me of that picture that I feel

like everyone's seeing, right? With the little child holding that

tiny teddy bear. And then Jesus is asking for that teddy

bear. And what's behind Jesus back, which we can see in the

picture, but the child can't, is a massive teddy

bear. And it's like Jesus is ready to give that, big

teddy bear over. But first of all, the little child needs to give

over the little one. And just always that thing with Jesus,

like he's asking you for something and it's that little

thing, like you just have to say yes to that first one and he's

always going to give you.

How did you Actually end up saying your yes to

God. Like what made you commit to doing

the youth ministry and then the wider

path that God has taken you on as well.

>> Georgia: Honestly, I don't really know. I think grace

is partly it. I also had a powerful

experience of the Holy Spirit when I did my confirmation,

particularly in doing like the retreat day. I

experienced the Holy Spirit for the first time. Didn't necessarily

know that that's what I was experiencing, but

really fell in love with the Lord and just

kept saying yes to every opportunity to

like go to a youth group and go to a retreat and go to

a pilgrimage in Lithuania. Like, I just kept saying yes

to all of these trips. And that's kind

of how I treat life. I say yes to the opportunities that come up

and say to the Lord, okay, if that's not what you want, then

you can just close that door. I think he has given

me, a strong faith and

so I kind of. Yeah, I think there's a two way

trust. I think he trusts me too, perhaps because of

the amount of faith that he has given me and there's many other things

that he hasn't given me. So I will, I'll

take the faith because it is such a joy for me.

>> Julia: Talking of joy, have you had a particular

highlight of being a youth minister or a particular

moment that stands out to you?

>> Georgia: Oh, there's so many. I mean, every time that you

pray with a young person, it's so special.

There was one particular occasion though,

on the first retreat I did, second retreat,

I was offering to pray for the young people and one of

the lads came over and

I'm not particularly experienced or well versed

in prayer ministry and that kind of,

I guess, charismatic expression. But there's

definitely a difference. Sometimes when you pray with a

young person of such pure faith that when you pray for them, it's very

clear and very peaceful. And I had

the strong sense that we were praying at the foot of the cross and I was

praying for this young person. And quite clearly

he was experiencing lots of the physical sensations that

happen when you are filled with the Holy Spirit. And I hadn't

told the young people this because I kind of, I worry

about setting things up and then they don't experience

anything. And so I just said, look, you can come and pray. And I

never say you might experience this or this.

But it was incredible to me that he, while

crying and then told me afterwards that he had

like a heat go from head to toe. He couldn't

actually move. But he said it was really peaceful.

>> Julia: And.

>> Georgia: And when I asked for Our lady to wrap her mantle of protection around him,

he told me that he actually felt that

mantle wrap around him to the point where even

three years later, four years later, he asked me, remember when we

prayed? And, are you sure you didn't put your arm around me? And

I was like, no, I definitely didn't put my arm around you. Just

that's not what I would do in prayer ministry. So

he has kept his faith very, very solid since then. It

kind of felt like having a spiritual child as well,

not just being a youth minister. every

young person, it feels quite personal and I try to

make it very relational, actually, in the ministry. But,

yeah, that was one experience where I just thought, wow,

I, I can't make this all happen.

I just get to be a grateful

spectator and co worker. It's just awesome.

And then there have been times where people write their testimonies to me later, where

I had no idea that that's, it was an encounter

for them with God. People, have written, like, homework

for their English at home, and it will be all about

how this retreat changed their life. And I had no

idea at the time. World Youth Day was

pretty cool. We're all sleeping out on the field. There

were millions of people in silent adoration. I mean, you

just can't beat that. Because these young people never get

silence. And yet, even in a field of

millions, everybody's eyes are just on Jesus. Their

heart's, like, directed in that way. These young people,

they're a, testimony to me. It's very special to be able

to do it with them.

>> Julia: Is there anything that you wish people knew about youth

ministry?

>> Georgia: That it's not cute? You know,

people, I often say to people, I'm a youth minister, and they're like,

aww, I'll give over.

This is really hard. They ask you

the toughest apologetic questions because

they have no filter and they really want to know.

They're genuinely curious and they're trying to form their

mind and, their opinion about life and faith and

politics and what it means to live in

society. And they ask you a lot and

you kind of need to be all things to everyone and

you can do it happily, but it's really hard work.

Like, it's, been a case of giving up

multiple evenings of my week, nearly all

of my weekends for the past five years. I have to

do safeguarding work and, deal with parents.

And it's not, I'm not saying it's like

MI M5 level. But I am saying it's not

just ping pong and pizza because actually where youth

ministry is that ah, they're usually lacking in

spiritual depth and formation and young people having a

nice time, but they're not necessarily becoming disciples. The thing

is about discipleship is, you

know, the best translation I think is apprenticeship and

they're looking at you. That is so much

pressure about what

you know and how you live your faith. And it's, I mean it's

great because you have

accountability just kind of naturally. And also that the working

relationship in the church, it's such a gift, but

it's also hard like working with

clergy and laity

parishioners. That's a whole very

unique environment that you don't really get to switch off when you

go home.

>> Julia: That was going to be my next question. Do you ever switch off?

>> Georgia: Not particularly, to be honest with you. It's

really hard. Young people in

a safeguarding, appropriate way have my work number

and they can contact me with

questions. They can contact me if they need anything just

to make myself available. I did have to get a work

number because parents were also texting my personal number

like at Saturday, ah, or 10:00pm,

like, so about tomorrow's first

communion, you're like, okay, I need to

separate my life.

>> Julia: I have a few friends who are youth ministers and that would be my top

tip is if you're ever a youth minister, to separate your

work and private phones.

>> Georgia: Like, yeah, yeah, you just need a bit of

breathing time and it's

super fun. It also can blur a lot of lines between

your friendships and work because as naturally happens, a lot of

your friends are in the parish. They are also

helping with youth ministry because you're usually friends with people who

love Jesus and then people who love Jesus are great at youth ministry.

So yeah, hard to switch off

to be honest with you.

>> Julia: Then my other top tip would be to not to assume that somebody who

loves Jesus is going to be good at ah, youth ministry.

>> Georgia: That's very fair actually.

>> Julia: So what would you say to someone who's discerning ministry?

>> Georgia: Ask, yourself why, why do you want to do it?

What do you hope that it will give you? And m, more

importantly, what are you hoping to give the Lord and what you're

hoping to give the church and can you give

what it needs and just ask

yourself those questions and to go and see it and

volunteer, like really get involved in

a ministry that you know is working well. Saint Elizabeth of Portugal,

Richmond is available for more volunteers

if anyone's listening.

>> Julia: No, I was about to say, I think nearly every

parish went to youth ministry. So if that is

something, there's definitely a parish near you that's ready for

volunteers.

>> Georgia: Absolutely, yeah. And just get support as well.

You often get left alone as just solo

player and don't get a lot of support from

your local parishes or deanery or

diocese. Sometimes you're just kind of left to your own devices.

And so I'd say look for people who have been in it for a long

time, have conversations, and then

don't be afraid to make it your own.

>> Julia: What would you say to someone who's struggling to say

their yes? Whether that's out of fear or

uncertainty, what would you say?

>> Georgia: I think I'd say find something that you can say yes

to. What is something that the Lord is asking you to say yes to?

It might be he's asking you to pray

about this decision and you can say yes to, ah, that. And

then maybe he's asking you to have a conversation and you're okay, you're

not committing just yet, but just go say yes to having that

conversation. Say yes to the little steps

along the way and don't try to predict

what's happening in the future because I think that's often what happens

when we get fearful. We're going, what if?

And God actually isn't operating in the what ifs or the

you shoulds. And sometimes people are like, I have to

do this thing because I have to go to discern religious

life because I love God and I should. Okay, maybe.

And you're scared about that decision. So what if the first thing you

can do is just go and have a conversation with someone who

is a member of religious community because you're not committing

to anything? Then just, just say yes to that first little

step and then see what happens and how your heart

responds. So it doesn't need to be such

a big, like, you're going to give. If anybody said to me, you're

going to be working in ministry for five, six years, I don't think

I'd have said yes either. But in my head it was only like

a two, three year, little plan. Or it was, I'm just going to

run this zoom call on a Friday evening for a

few weeks. So God's really gracious in

that He. He actually doesn't show us the whole big picture to begin

with because I think it would overwhelm us. We

say yes to the little things because we know that we can do

that. So try not to jump Ahead and just

say yes to the thing that's in front of you.

>> Julia: So what do you wish you knew before you entered ministry?

>> Georgia: I think I wish I'd known

how fun it would be. Genuinely. I don't think

people talk enough about how fun it can be

to be really

in it with the Lord, like hand in hand,

co working with him, seeing the things that he

wants to bring about in people's lives. It's just

incredible. And perhaps how tired I'd be

the both. And, yeah, I think people often talk

about the demands of ministry. And it's true. I mean, the

average burnout for a youth Minister is about 18 months.

And the problem is it takes three years to build, I think, a sustainable

ministry. M and that's what I've read about from

ministries in the States as well. It takes about three years.

And so not enough youth ministers are staying long enough because it is so

demanding. But sometimes when it's

demanding, the Lord is just asking us to make a switch. Because

actually, when you're working out of your charisms and you're bringing about

a ministry that he wants, it's not

so demanding that it kind of kills you.

So you have to ask yourself, okay, if I am really slaving away at

this particular group, you know, Ignite is running

and I hate it every single time, and it's really

tiring and the young people aren't really coming to know Jesus,

then probably the Lord's asking for a switch up there. Ah.

Like, don't be afraid to do something brand new.

Yeah, I think I wish I'd known that hearing

that first voice as well is not how it would be in the

future. it wasn't always, like,

discerning God's will isn't always going to be that clear

that sometimes he really makes you

work for it, and sometimes

he asks you to make a decision. Because sometimes it's great

when the Lord is very clear and says, this is what you're

going to do. We all pray for that. We're

all like, yes, tell me exactly, Lord. And actually,

a lot of the time, and especially in really big decisions,

like, for example, I'm getting married next month, he didn't say

to me, you're gonna marry this person. He just

presented this man in my life, and then I

had to figure it out with a lot of prayer and a lot of trust.

>> Julia: I think that also makes it a bit more exciting. I mean, if God

said to you, like, this is your life.

You're gonna do this, this, this, and this. That'd be

pretty boring pretty quickly.

>> Georgia: Yeah.

>> Julia: What are you most grateful for?

>> Georgia: M. I'm most grateful for

the people who've gone before me. I've really tilled

the ground, they've planted the seeds, they've

prayed. They also give me an opportunity

to step into where I've been able to step into. Those

people are rare. And I don't think we have a

particularly, strong culture in the church of giving platforms

to kind of up and coming speakers, up and coming

ministers, up and coming lay people who could just do

something. I think we could be so much better at that. And I've

been so grateful for Father Stephen, my parish

priest. The youth minister invested in me when I

was 14, 15. Brendan, when

he was at Catholic Voices, he really mentored me and gave me the

opportunity to speak to goodness knows how many audiences.

And at the beginning, I wasn't very good. And,

you just have to learn and just keep going. And so I'm really passionate

about giving particularly young people

a platform that they can step up into and use their gifts and

talents because they. They're pretty remarkable and they just

need to be trusted with an opportunity. So I'm

really grateful for. Yeah. The people that have gone before me.

>> Julia: Thank you for joining us.

>> Georgia: Thank you.

>> Julia: Thanks for listening to things I Wish I knew. I know this

episode is going to stay with me because of the way that

Georgia talks about her heart for youth ministry.

There were several times in the episode where I thought about

how I had been formed in youth ministry, and I was really grateful for

that. So how about you? We'd love

to hear about how George's story resonates with you. And why not

also tell us if you're facing an experience you wish you knew how

to look at differently, it might just be something we can help with.

You can find out more about this theme and others at,

thinkingfaith.org. Thank you again for listening,

and I hope you'll join me again next time on Things I Wish

I Knew.