>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from Thinking

Faith, a work of the Jesuits in Britain. I'm

Julia. I'm in my early 30s and I used to live in a

Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect on what's

happening both to us and around us. This

podcast is meant to help you to take a moment to stop

and to think about where you are, where you're going,

and where your relationship with God fits into it all.

Every week, I'll, meet a new guest who tells me about something they experienced

which has changed their lives forever by

talking about the things they wish they'd known at the time. We'll explore the

idea that God is in all things. And we'll talk about the

part that faith plays in navigating life challenges.

Today I'm speaking to Edward, who grew up in London. He's

passionate about social justice and he works in public

life. In this conversation, Edward talks

about life growing up in Tottenham, going to a Jesuit

school, and how that led him to be the man he is today,

which is a man for others.

For me, in this conversation, it's great for considering

how faith, purpose and lay leadership all work

together.

So, Edward, what was it like growing up in

Tottenham?

>> Edward: I think there's a number of things that come to

mind. There were certainly pros, I, think now in hindsight,

looking at, so my upbringing, hoosley,

grateful for, what I was given and what I was

able to sort of see. But growing up in Tottenham, I

think overall, I think the word that comes to mind was challenging.

You very quickly realise that

the things that matter in life is family, friends,

good relationships and people that really care about you. You

know, that is what ultimately sort of matters in life. But

it was challenging. It was very hard. I mean, there was a time growing

up in Tottenham, particularly sort of my time,

where we had the highest unemployment rate in London. Just under

60% of young people were unemployed. You had

poor housing, overcrowding, schools were

being closed left, right and centre. No, opportunities.

It was tough. And as a result, a lot of people,

particularly sort of young men, were thinking about, okay, what

is the alternative? How do I put food on the table? How do

I support my family? You know, and that was the constant theme.

So it was hard. On top of that, you had sort of crime rates were

obviously high. Things were happening. I think come back

from school, you always had to check your shoulders.

But then I say on the flip side, because of all of that

I think, as I said, you have a strong sense of community.

you have real relationships with some of your friends and your peers.

Hopefully, if you can, if you're lucky enough, you've got a good

family set up and that means the world to you.

And I think from early on you just

mature very quickly because life comes at you very,

very quickly and as a result you just have to sort of

adapt very quickly. One of the things that I think

certainly helped me in growing up in an area like Tottenham is sort of my

faith. I was very fortunate to have

gone to a very good school there, primary school there, and went off

to a secondary school, not too far out from Tottenham.

But, I think my faith very much kept me so

grounded and rooted. and I think that certainly helped,

you know, and again, like what I was saying before, I

think having sort of these things in your life, whether it's your faith,

whether it's family, I think it really does,

sort of help you through, through tough times and when you

are having to grow up in such challenging,

challenging environments. So, yeah, yeah, it was an

interesting sort of process, but I wouldn't change it for the world,

regardless.

>> Julia: So how did your childhood experience influence

who you are now as a person?

>> Edward: I think the line of work that I'm in right now is. I think that

definitely stems from my upbringing. I think seeing the

injustices that I saw growing up, as I said

before, sort of low household,

incomes, overcrowding, parents,

having to do two free jobs that you're seeing,

your peers, parents, having to do so

many roles just to keep afloat. and I think for

me it was clear where. It just

dawned on me, where I realised we have to do something

about this and if we can't rely on local and central

government to do this, I have to do it. There was a

real sense of duty and obligation for me to step up and do this.

And I think that stemmed from my secondary

school experience. I went to Sagnatius

College in Enfield and that definitely sort of

made me understand that, ah, there was a role for me to play.

I mean, the school motto there was be men for others. And what

that meant was, how do you take sort of values, the

Christian values, into the world that I live? so

for me it was a case of how do I sort of begin to

really sort of shape the society that I want to see and

live in. I wanted to see how we can really

live in a world where people are treated so

equally and, People are respected. I think that pretty

much, sort of really shapes the person that you see today.

>> Julia: So take me back to the Tottenham riots. What

was it like seeing your community on fire every day?

>> Edward: It's a feeling that, honestly, you just can't explain.

I think I was really young when the first riots happened

in Tottenham. So you had a Broadwater Farm riot. So I didn't really

have much of an experience with that.

But, this 2011 Tottenham

riots was a feeding you just honestly can't explain.

Ah, actually, when onto Tottenham High Road

with a good friend of mine post riots, when we walked through it

and honestly, like, it was almost like a numbing

feeling that you sort of experience once walking

through the area. Honestly, I just couldn't put into words so

how I felt. And then seeing sort of the buildings

burn down and no one sort of doing

anything about it. And I used that very

intentionally when I say no one was prepared to do anything about

it, because there was then an inquiry afterwards and we

understood that the police allow the

fire brigades to come out for over an hour,

which was crazy, but I think reinforces why people were

frustrated and angry about sort of the conditions that they

were living in. Because, for many years

we had, and decades, should I say, people felt as

if they couldn't trust and rely on

sort of hierarchy, whether that was local central

government or people in authority. And people,

as a result, acted the way they did in

2011. Now, certainly not here to condone

such behaviour, but, yeah, I think people were clearly

frustrated. But in terms of going back onto the question

that you posed, in terms of what was it like?

And the feeling, I think it was there was a combination of

feelings. There was hurt, there was pain,

disappointment, frustration.

it was tough. It was tough. It was tough. Certainly not a

feeling I want to experience again. Yeah.

>> Julia: Did you ever feel like you wanted to get out of Tottenham?

>> Edward: Yeah, that was, I think, the aim for a lot of people growing up in

Tottenham. now we've seen the area sort

of change so much over the last couple years. Post rights, actually.

But prior to that, the aim was to,

leave Tottenham once you secured a relatively good

job or a job that allowed you to, sort

of move. That was the first thing a lot of people did. Football was

definitely sort of my. The initial plan

that I had, I saw my brother play football at

a high level, so, I wanted to follow suit, but that

didn't really work out. Sort of 16. I sort of

packed it all in and the. The route was then to

sort of focus on my education and, see what

sort of the Lord is calling me to do. And that's when I stumbled

across community organising. and I think that changed my

life. That was a way for me to really inform so

my faith and, and the injustices that I saw.

But I say that I then pursued a career in the private

sector being property, but in the midst of doing that, I

was still heavily involved in organising and that's when I, ah,

pivoted into, sort of focusing more my work in community

organising.

>> Julia: So you had that experience of growing up in Tottenham and

then you also had the experience of going to a

Jesuit school. What stood out to you about

that experience in light of the living

experience you were going through at the time?

>> Edward: I think the word that comes to mind is hope. We sometimes don't have the

luxury to have sort of things around us to be

able to address sort of social inequalities. And I was quite

fortunate to have that through my faith. And the

two core sort of elements and

themes of the Jesuits of order, should I say, is

education and charitable work. And I was

fortunate enough to be able to access both education in

terms of going to Jesuit school and then charitable work. But

I think we can go beyond that and say justice. And I

think we were able and fortunate to do that. And I say we,

in terms of the cohort in my year group at the time,

were able to get involved with Citizens UK

who are, a civil society alliance, an alliance of

your pillars of the community. So whether that's your church, your mosque, your

synagogue, schools, universities who

come together and try address sort of social

injustices in neighbourhoods. And we were one of the

founding members of North London Citizens, and, we were

able to address sort of the London rights,

particularly sort of the Tottenham riots and really find out the causes

and the effects, but most importantly, solutions. How

do we move forward from what happened? So I think,

yeah, I was quite fortunate to have that and I think

just being able to really be a student at St.

Ignatius and really understanding, so what it really meant to be

sort of a Catholic, a Jesuit, and really sort of

go through that experience. Yeah, I think a real sense of hope.

>> Julia: Did you ever consider, with your Jesuit

education, to become a Jesuit?

>> Edward: yeah, it's an interesting one because, like, obviously

going to Jesuit school, you're always thinking about,

so how to live out your Christian sort of values in your life.

And it was actually sort of a young Jesuit

that I met only a few years ago is when I Realised,

okay, he's quite young. I think we're even a similar age. He

was actually in his 20s and I think that's when

it sort of dawned on me and I was thinking just with some of the

things that was happening in my life as well, certainly something that

I thought about. and that's largely because of sort of the work and like,

of work. I mean and I think it aligns with.

So being a Jesuit is. You know, I wouldn't say that I

haven't ever thought about it. I certainly have thought about

it. It's not a decision that I've made just

yet. But we wait and see. We wait and see for sure.

>> Julia: What have you done instead, career wise

instead of being Jesuit?

>> Edward: Okay, so I pursued a career

in property for about 10 years and then

pivoted into more community organising and working there. But as

I said before, I'd always been involved in organising.

So my first sort of route into organising was

with Citizens uk. and then I had a unique

opportunity to advise on a European

funded project looking at youth unemployment across Europe

before coming back to London and

continuing my work in sort of organising and also in the

private sector. And then recently, I say recently about, for the

last five to six years, been working with

CTC working with, which is the centre of theology

and community and looking at how we support our

churches to have more of an impact within their community, as well as

that company working with Jesuits in Britain

and looking at how we support people from the

African diaspora, particularly in London and

thinking about what that looks like. And I've been doing that for the last

couple years and thoroughly enjoy it, thoroughly enjoy

being involved in this work and looking at how dynamic it

is but really being part of some real significant

change. but ultimately sort of understanding that this

is what feel anyway we've been called to do, been called

to serve and serve those around us. And I think it

really sort of helps me contextualise my faith and

what it means to be a Catholic, what it meant to

go to a Jesuit school and what my teachers and

the priests that were there always used to sort of say which is

Men for Others. And I think the prayer is one

that always sort of resonates with me. To serve as you

deserve, to give and not to count the cost. What does that really

mean? What does that look like? and

I genuinely feel as if like I'm living that out, I'm really living

that out in terms of whether it's at

CTC whether that's through the work I'm doing with

Jesuits in Britain, I generally feel as if,

I'm living that out. so currently, that's what my work

looks like. As well as that, I run a social

enterprise which looks at how we

really support young people from challenging backgrounds

and help them begin to think about what are the tools

and mechanisms they need to really thrive. As well as that,

I run a community as well, which looks at

supporting, yeah, young professionals in

different experiences that they can sort of get involved in.

So, yeah, I think through all of the different sort of work

that I'm doing, I. I genuinely feel as if I'm living out

my calling anyway, and my true vocation.

Yeah.

>> Julia: That was what I was going to ask you. In that time of career change,

did you feel God's presence in it?

>> Edward: A hundred percent. A hundred percent, I definitely feel

as if I've been quite fortunate, I'll say,

over the last sort of couple years, to

really listen to what God's calling me to do and where the

Lord is calling me to be. and I think that could be hard.

But I think for me, it started with prayer.

Being able to sort of have time to just pray and

be still and to have that a long time, you

know, and I can see that. So with all

the work that I'm doing, that after sort of a piece of work

that I've done, or whether it's sort of an engagement that I've

been part of, it reinforces that this is what I've

been called to do. And God has clearly guided me

to be in here. And I think it all makes

sense. From what I'm doing now to what I

was very passionate about, which I mentioned at the beginning of

this conversation. it's clear that the

Lord has always been sort of guiding me. But most importantly,

I can see that. I can very much see that.

>> Julia: At one point we discussed how success looked

like being a footballer. What does success mean to you now?

>> Edward: Good question. Good, good question.

Success for me now, I think,

ultimately is, so, how am

I able to serve those around me? I

think that is definitely, I think, at the top of the

list for me to sort of serve just like

what the Lord calls us to do and in whatever capacity

I'm called to do. I think ultimately that's at the top of my list.

And I think when I look at everything that I'm involved in,

that is pretty much at the heart of everything that I

do. It's service, it's to serve. I think behind

that there are some personal sort of things

there as well. I think that's to sort

of be the best version of myself for those around me,

to really love those around me, to be able to be

in a space and to be in a headspace where I'm able

to not only love, but to have grace for those around me.

Because as I said before at the beginning of the conversation, I think

growing up in an area like Tottenham, I think family

and sort of friends and community

mean so much to me. So, how can I show up,

the best version of myself? And I think

lastly as well, it's to really address

the things that I wasn't happy with growing up.

And, I think I'm, on the path of doing that, whether that's

sort of addressing the hardship that people from

my community went through. So I think the work that I'm doing with Jesuits in Britain

at the moment, in looking at how we support people from the African and

Caribbean diaspora, etc, I think is a piece of work that I'm

so passionate about. Because I think that

is addressing sort of not only work that

I think is vital, but generations to come. This ain't

just for me. This ain't just for sort of my peers, but this

is for families that are going to live in Tottenham moving

forward, or in London, in general. So I'm extremely

passionate about that. And I think if I'm able to sort of

address the hardship that they go through, that's

definitely success for me. I think, as well as that is

a lot of the work that I'm doing at CTC and supporting

our young people, really understanding sort of the role their faith

plays in their life, I think I'm hugely, hugely

grateful for sort of my faith. But the opportunities that's

come with that, because that's allowed me to be able to

sort of not only do what I've done, but has also

allowed me to understand so what is actually important in life.

and that's to have a strong sense of faith and to know how to inform

through your faith. as I always say, it's not about what you do, it's about how you

do what you do. And that really comes from sort of your

faith. I've always done things with a real level of sort

of grace, love, attention to detail,

and that ultimately comes from sort of my faith. I remember sort of being

at school and, one of the teachers would always

say, Mr. Dawson. I want to sort of big up Mr.

Dawson. Anyway, on the podcast, it's Only. Right. And I

remember he would always be big on sort of presentation,

to be specific, your top button.

And now, in hindsight, looking back at that, I know

exactly what he meant by that. It's because how you do one thing is how

you do everything. If you present yourself in a certain way, you've

come ready, prepared to work, to do

things. And so with the work I'm doing at

CTC and with the young people, is to really understand that your faith

is so dynamic, it contributes to so

many different parts of your life. And how are they

really able to understand that, that you could

be someone that's so rooted, in your faith and

what it means to be a Christian, but that doesn't mean that you have

to still be a Jesuit. That doesn't mean you have to be a priest,

but you can go and be a lawyer, you could be an accountant.

but that doesn't take away from the fact that your faith

still plays a massive part in your life. And I

think that's what I've been able to do. and for me, success

really looks like how we able to support young people

in really understanding that. I'm sure there's other things, but

clearly these are the three most important, hence why they came to

mind.

>> Julia: How do you teach young people or support young people so that they

know they have agency?

>> Edward: I think we do that through. I think, journeying with

them. There's a real sense of journey and

accompaniment with. With young people, young people

growing up, there's. There's a lot that's. That's thrown at them.

They're. They're being told so many different things. they

don't really have much of a say. So, how are we

able to journey and accompany our young

people? And what I mean by that is being able to

really hold their hand on this journey of life, on this

journey of faith as well. How are we able to hold their hand

through life and be able to sort of guide them and

steer them and not necessarily tell them how to do things,

but journey with them, accompany them, really sort

of show them. And I've seen they responded really

well to that. Young people really want to be able to,

see how their faith has relevance in their life,

seeing how current affairs apply to their faith,

how we able to have these honest conversations. Because

I know growing up, I wasn't really able to do that up until I

got involved in organising to be at the forefront of an

inquiry into the Tottenham riots to address the fact

that we had the highest unemployment rate in London at the

time. This is what it looks like. This is what it means to address

a housing situation where we had poor housing,

to be able to support local

people, to secure housing there. That's what it looks like.

So for me, it's really been able to, really, for us to

support young people in terms of informing their faith,

but then journey with them. How we're able to journey with our young

people because they're clearly passionate about their faith, they're clearly

passionate about being better versions of themselves, otherwise they

wouldn't be in these spaces. Whether it's at church, whether it's at

school, they wouldn't be here. They wouldn't really want to show

that level of engagement. So there's clearly something

placed in their heart. What we now need to do is

support them on that journey.

>> Julia: And do you ever look at young people now and think,

I can see my younger self in that

person?

>> Edward: All the time. All the time. And

it's an interesting one because I think there sometimes

has to be sort of a level of let them go on

their journey, you know? But, yeah, I see that all the time.

Honestly, I wouldn't say there's so many Mini Edwards,

not at all. But, I do sometimes see a bit

of myself in some of these young people. But again, I think

that's what gives me hope, that's what makes me realise that,

okay, they are going to go on this journey and they're clearly going

to still be able to sort of see what I'm talking about.

and I think this is why conversation like this is so important,

because I was able to have mentors and

coaches and so people around me who were able

to really support me on my journey. And I hope and

pray that this is an opportunity for other young people

where I see sort of a bit of myself in them to be able to

so listen to conversations like this or to be in spaces where

they're able to so pick up and understand.

So how to navigate. I think we, we often talk about

epistemology and by definition that means to gain knowledge

through experience. So, I think it's only right that we,

we share sort of our experiences for young people to be

able to pick up from what we experience and how we're

able to navigate, because that's, that's how they're ultimately going to be able to

gain knowledge.

>> Julia: So, yeah, it sounds like you're

paying it forward. I don't know if you've ever seen that film, but I

was really influenced by that. You should is about I won't go into

it too much, but it's about a who decides

he's gonna do one thing to help three different

people and then they wouldn't pay it back to him, they would pay it

forward. And then it's like starting off. It's

great. You should go watch it.

what I want to know though is are there any challenges in being

a man for others?

>> Edward: That's a very, very good question.

it's a tough one. I wouldn't necessarily say challenges. I'll ah,

more say it's just really

supporting young people, young men really, or young

boys should I say, in understanding. So what that really means

because of course there can be some connotations attached

to sort of patriarchy which can be quite

sort of damaging to society. So really understanding

sort of what men for others means and what does that sort of really

look like. And so I think we just got to be very

sort of careful in supporting young boys in terms of what

that means and what that really looks at and really being able to live

that out and show them. And I was quite fortunate to be

able to sort of do that to read other, understand what it meant the

term men for others. now I'm a governor at St.

Ignatius now and now we've got a mixed sixth form. So

I understand now it's men and women for others because

ultimately it was obviously an all boys school. But I think in any case

men for others essentially mean so all of us really men and

women. I, think what the word that comes to mind as I've

sort of repeated in this conversation is to serve those

around us, to love those around us, to journey

with those around us. So I think definitely

being very careful with making sure that we're

able to support young boys just so that they really

understand it's for us to be able to serve those around

us, to really live out sort of our Christian

values. So I think, I wouldn't say, as I said before, a challenge. I'd more

say it's more a case of us really so making sure

that we educate and support them.

>> Julia: So you obviously are doing a lot. How do you

balance it all?

>> Edward: Oh, that's a good question. And a lot

of people do ask me the same thing actually. So

amongst all the things that I do, I

definitely try and prioritise time to

rest so that I am able to do all

of these different things. I think that's very important.

And recently I was Informed that, I need to rest a little

bit more. So I, would encourage.

So anyone who's juggling things to definitely

rest and prioritise that, because that

allows you to be able to do the many things that we've

been called to do. But I think there's

the other things that allow me to do what I'm doing and how

do I sort of juggle all of these things? I think is

being able to prioritise sort of other things outside of the

things that I'm passionate about. So hobbies.

So, I run a lot. I'm very big on sport.

I still play football. I run. So I recently did the

London Marathon. I'm in the process of planning a

few other races and potentially at High Rocks.

So, I'm very much big on trying to sort of

prioritise time to do other. But then I think

someone will probably listen to think, well, how do you fit all of that in as well?

But I think it's just rest. It's just really trying to

have a good schedule. that's something that I was taught

and told sort of early on, to really have a schedule that

allows you to do the many things that you want to do.

So I go on a lot of retreats as well, actually. A lot of people don't know

that, actually, but, yeah, I do go on a lot of retreats.

I was on a retreat, last

week. Was it last week or two weeks ago? So, yeah, retreats are

something that,

>> Edward: I've recently been able to still go on and travel

a lot. I know that I'm going to be taking time out.

I love travelling the world, so that allows me to do that.

So, I'll definitely say have quite a strict sort

of, schedule. But a schedule that's not too strict, that

doesn't allow you to do things that incorporates so

other things. Yeah. So, that's what allows me to be

able to do the many things and the many hats that I

have.

>> Julia: So what do you wish you knew earlier about faith,

leadership and purpose?

>> Edward: It's a tough one. because

if I knew all of this before, I probably wouldn't have lived out

everything the way I did. I watched Conclave not

too long ago and I remember there was a

bit in the film where they were talking about

mystery is necessary in faith. We need

sort of mystery, in faith because ultimately,

with mystery is what gives us faith, because we don't know

what's going to happen. And ultimately that's what gives us that

overall faith. So, to be honest, I wouldn't want to know. I've

loved the fact that I've been able to go on this journey, but I

think I wish I knew that it would. It would inform

sort of every bit of my life, every

single part of my life. I think my

Jesuit education and sort of my

faith and being a Catholic has informed every

sort of bit of my life. Whether that's so relationships,

whether that's, sort of the career path that I've decided to

go into. I, was thinking about whether that's, being able

to sort of work on some of the initiatives and

campaigns, that I've worked on. It's really sort of informed

everything. And I wish I knew that it wasn't so one

part of my life that my faith was so dynamic, you

know, as I so mentioned before. And, it's really going

to inform most of the decisions that you make. And ultimately

I'm not in control of that. The Lord is ultimately

control of that. I often say, I think there's a saying that I say you

pray to run for the bus and then you run as fast as you can.

And I wish that I knew all I can do is just run as fast as I

can and just pray to make the bus. And I think

that really does, encapsulate my life in a sense

of sort of. I can't guarantee

what's going to happen, that's for the Lord to dictate. But what I can

do is to be the best version of myself and to serve

those around me. And

that's all I can take care of. That's all I can control. And I

wish I knew that earlier, but to be honest, I love the journey that I'm

going on.

>> Julia: So what are you most grateful for?

>> Edward: I'm grateful for my faith. I, think I've said that sort of

in the conversation, but I definitely. So grateful for. So

my faith and how that's supported me through the good

times and the not so good times. I'm grateful for

family. I think I've been extremely

fortunate to have a family that are supportive,

been there, have shown me the way, and my parents are

sort of two people that introduced me to my faith and I've never

really looked back. Huge grateful my brothers, who have

been huge, huge supporters in my journey.

Do you know, I'd say it's a combination of how we started

this conversation, in terms of my community.

I think through growing up in Tottenham, it's made me

sort of have a certain perspective in life, and it's

really tied into the Ignatian prayer, which

is to serve as you deserve. I think growing up in Tottenham

and seeing what I saw, I'm just hugely grateful

for being able to see that, be involved in

that and now say, okay. I'm sort of ultimately

for just trying to bring about change in,

not only in London, but where I see

sort of an injustice, you know? And, I'm hugely grateful

for that being sort of not only my

passion, but connected to sort of my faith

and who I am as an individual, you know? and that's

allowed me to work on all of the different things that I've mentioned

so before. So, yeah, I'm just hugely grateful for family,

my faith and. Yeah. And sort of for my community,

really.

>> Julia: Thanks for listening to Things I Wish I Knew.

What's going to stay with me in this episode is how

Edward seems to make his decisions by discerning with

God. How about you? We'd love to

hear how Edward's story resonated with you.

And why not also tell us if you're facing an experience

you wish you knew how to look at different, differently, it might

just be something we can help with. You can find out more

about this theme and others at, thinkingfaith.org.

Thank you again for listening and I hope you'll join me again next

time on Things I Wish I Knew.