Hello everyone
and welcome to another episode of Selling Greenville
your favorite real estate podcast here in Greenville
South Carolina I'm your host as always
Stan McCune Realtor right here in Greenville
and you can find all of my contact information
in the show notes
if you need to reach out to me
for any of your local real estate needs
just reminders always
if you like this content and you don't want to miss it
please subscribe to the show
if you're on YouTube you can hit the little
I think there's like a little bell button
hit the bell button if you're in your apple podcast
there's like a follower subscribe button whatever
every podcast app has a different
option A different way of doing it
so please do that if you can leave a rating or review
that would be fantastic as well
really appreciate you guys
thank you guys as always for watching and listening
today
is actually a first for the Selling Greenville podcast
I have had on
people involved in politics before on the show
but we've actually never had someone on the show
who's in the middle of a campaign
that's changing today as I will be interviewing
someone running for Greenville
City Council
now I'll introduce our guest in just a moment
but since this is a first
I need to clarify something because if I don't
I'll have people in my direct messages
telling me that I'm doing bad things
so here's my clarification
having a guest on my show
does not constitute an endorsement
either by me or by any groups that I'm affiliated with
and that goes back to anyone that I've had on the show
anyone that I will have on in the future
I really
that's just not how I operate
I don't
I don't have people on the show in order to try to
pump them up specifically
if I have a guest on the show
it's either because I have a pre
existing relationship with them
or because they reached out to me to come on the show
that's really how this works
so I
I've not up to this point
even turned down any politicians
or candidates that have asked to come on to the show
I have had there was one council person
a while back that reached out
and said that they were willing to come on the show
and
but there weren't any specifics
and nothing ever came to fruition
but I was willing to to have them on the show
so these sorts of things happen
so long story short I'm not playing any favorites
when I have someone on here
and if you don't know me I'll just say this
my political beliefs are pretty amorphous
I haven't connected with any politicians in our area
or elsewhere that I agree with 100% on anything
and you probably know that if you're
if you're a long time listener of the show
and if you're a listener of the show
you know I'm not gonna be disagreeable or
or try to do any gotchas or anything like that
so if you want content where people are doing that
there is tons of that out there
so go ahead and
and do some searches for the controversial podcasts
there's like 10 million of those out there alright
so now
we're past all the disclaimers
that I have to put out there
we have a very special guest Tina Belge
who is running for an open
at large seat in Greenville City Council
and Tina is a third generation greenvillian
who has an extensive background in local
real estate related issues
having served as a director with the Greenville
Housing Fund as a Greenville County planner
and she currently serves as the founder of Catalyst
Community Consulting
which advocates for affordable housing planning
as well as community
engagement in Greenville and in other areas
so she's running for office but tons of overlap
with the main thing that we're concerned about here
with real estate and of course
everything that happens in the city of Greenville
impacts Greenville real estate as well
so this will all flow in really nicely
so I'm really excited to have Tina
so Tina welcome to the show
thank you so much Stan I appreciate you having me
absolutely so
one thing that is unique about the city of Greenville
although the the city
population pales in comparison to Greenville County
I think the city is roughly 10%
I'm very ballpark figure of
of the county
a lot of us in the county
spend a substantial amount of time in the city
which is really not the case in
in I feel like a lot of other areas
and and particularly downtown of course
because we have such an amazing downtown
it's always getting all these
all these awards all these oh yeah
you know everyone wants to say something about downtown
Greenville
so we'll just start with that
what are some things that are happening in downtown
in the upcoming years that have you excited
yeah well yeah
you're right it's
nearly 10% so we have 75,000 people in the city
and our population is getting up around 6
six 50 in the county so yeah
we're quick on our way to 10 yeah
absolutely
yeah for downtown
I mean
there've been a lot of improvements over the years
I'm really excited about Bonsecours Wellness Arena
or the Bio Center as you may know it
the improvements around there
it's gonna have some outside concert space
same with True Line it's another music area
venue that's popping up kind of around Unity Park area
mm hmm
and really just I think
utilizing a lot of passive recreation space
in the past that we had not really focused on
so good stuff downtown I mean
personally I'm really excited
as an at large member to focus away from downtown
because I think we've had so much growth
and we can handle a lot of growth downtown
I want our CBD or or set
commercial business district
to keep thriving and focusing density in those areas
but I'm even more excited to grow the nodes
in our city that were developed in the 2040 plan
which I helped
just participate when I was at the housing fund with
so I would love to have little mini downtowns haha
do you have
do you have specific areas that you have in mind
like when you when you say something like that
yeah I know you can't make any promises right because
no no no
because it takes a whole council and A&A
mayor and all of that you're just one person
certainly does it certainly does
but there's already a you know
an archetype and map for these nodes on the Green Bull
2040 plan so it's from five years ago
our city decided these were gonna be the areas
that we can handle growth
and we wanna manage it
and all I wanna bring to the table is incentivizing
actually building incentives for those areas
we have zoning of course
which helps direct some growth but if we want
you know adapted reuse of vacant buildings
or some more affordability in certain nodes
or you want some more economic development
some small businesses to thrive as you know
we see some leaving downtown going to other areas
we need some incentives around it
so that's my goal some of the main ones
I think about are here on Pleasantburg
where I am and
you know Rutherford
kind of Wade Hampton end of Cherrydale area
entering the city lots of opportunity for Pleasantburg
I mean we need some love like it's pretty
oh yeah that's that's the area I live in
I live right over by Wade Hampton High School
so
oh okay
so we're not far we're probably neighbors
yup
I'm just outside of the city
okay you're just outside
yeah I'm just on the very edge
yeah
we need some love on that on that end
South Pleasantburg as well
Lawrence Road
Mcallister Square
you know connecting out to
Cui Car and Verde
there's a whole Lawrence Road
you know plan yeah
so I think all those things would
you know
provide some some capacity
anywhere you have like a four or five lane road
you know versus like some of some development
we're focusing on like two lane roads
and I'm like
so getting anxious do so a lot of interestingly
a lot of people that that like to bike as in cycling
yeah listen to the show
is obviously the city has been
has done a good job of being bike friendly
I think there's still some
some ways that we could do that better
but outside of downtown
what is the push in the city for
for making you know
those notes that you're talking about more bikeable
yeah I mean
massively so my friend
her sister got hit a few months ago in Overbrook
which is kind of a growing
I'd say small little note area yeah
I mean it's
I cross wait Hampton Overbrook all the time
to bike it's
it's going down it's a pain coming back
but no it's not safe
people got hit
pedestrian crossing West Greenville a few weeks ago
also was hit
and so biking and PED is super needed in these
in these nodes
because you're connecting neighborhoods
to these little nodes right
yep and you're
wanting to make sure everything's interconnected
getting to downtown should be easy by bike
everyone is driving electric bikes now
like it's a huge thing yeah
I love to see it personally
I'm a big fan of actually protecting a bike lane
having cement and then having
you know a little more green space on the side sure
if not having some you know
real separation of some kind
some bolsters something
aren't they gonna do some of that like around the
like the the airport
the downtown airport did a whole thing
a whole like community involvement thing
aren't they planning to do some of that around there
they are around there and then also
there are different parts of the city still
still yet to come
I believe Pendleton Street will have some more
and I think over time I hope this
we'll see the city take on more roads to manage
from the state that's the biggest
mmm hmm issue
it's like the city owns
or the state owns like 60 to 80% of the roads
depending where you're at
yeah that was
that's a topic that we might
that we may hit on later because obviously the roads
they always get brought up
more so in county than city related things but
but it's it's kind of hard to
you know when
when the city of Greenville
has so much influence within the county
you know it's
it's kind of hard to divorce the two I
I feel like at least no
it is totally and you
so you alluded to a a few things
but I'll just ask you pointedly
what are some things you would improve downtown
just before we focus away from downtown I
I I do want to make sure we hit on a few
downtown related things since again
a lot of my listeners
our out of state people they're
they're not gonna know where all these different
you know Mcallister Square and what not is
but they do know what downtown is
so I want to make sure that we give them the meat
the red meat that they need haha
well definitely our traffic management downtown
there are some improvements
I know went to a meeting the other day about you know
downtown traffic plan and so that is in the works
sorry my dog my dog's barking
I can't we I don't think we can hear your dog so good
good okay
yeah I mean
some of that is like turning some 1
1 turn lanes into two turn lanes
instead of having backed up on Academy or stone
is a real problem too
yeah it's a major problem
it's I don't know why
that right hand lane on stone isn't also a straight
instead of just a right
do you know what I'm talking about
I agree yeah
what in the world anyway
there's a few
there's a few little things like that that don't
that don't make a ton of sense
you're coming out of downtown and
so those I think traffic improvement downtown
enforcement downtown
you know I did a ride along the other day
and I'm going to the Citizens Police Academy
and it's really like
it's very difficult for them to find somewhere to park
and patrol for downtown areas
just because of how the built environment is
but we need enforcement for speeders
and people who run red lights
like
if I see one more person run a red light in the city
like I straight up was like
can I can I citizens arrest somebody
this is so bad that's a great idea
also the people that that
that pull into the middle of the intersection
while the while the light is green
but knowing that it's gonna turn red
while they're in the middle of it
that drives me crazy I mean
I'm bored if it's green
and then you're yellow and you're going
but just sitting and sitting and sitting and then
and then it's like this weird cluster
also for downtown
I really believe this if you own if you live downtown
you shouldn't own a car
like you shouldn't need to own a car
I guess this is what I mean
if you want to pay for an extra spot
that could be revenue to the city
we have you know city parking
that they could buy you know spaces for
but that would do a few things obviously
take cars off the road
reduce traffic better air quality
all those things but think about how many
stories of parking
we have to build into any apartment now too
so that's extra height
that's extra skyline that's being taken up right
so I just
I'm a big believer in good transit and we've reached
we finally reached that density in downtown
where we can really do some good transit planning
and just make that more efficient
I would like to see instead of buses though
just utilizing our trolley system better
so right now they only go like Friday
Saturday Sunday and during the evening mostly and
you know during the day
I think that's
I think it's way more accessible than the bus
personally yeah
my kids love to get on the trolley
it's been four year old
it's been probably 10 years since I've used the trolley
and it's mostly because I just never know
like it's like
oh yeah
you gotta look it up on the app
and then it's like there's
it's not clear where it is or
or when
and there's definitely a lot of room for improvement
they do have a newer app
which is so much better than the old trolley app
it's called transit
and I think that was I think I agree totally
the old app was not good
and it just wasn't well known
I think just using as a small city efficient system
instead just have our buses
instead of having such a large footprint
in which they have now go out to each municipality
mm hmm right
and then go out to the big employment centers
you know my husband gets on 3
85 every day to go out to
to Duncan he works for an automotive manufacturer
like
that's 20,000 people a day heading out that direction
why we don't have park and ride
I don't know yeah
so things like that
I think would benefit downtown a lot
and also just incentivizing
like I said those
those areas we wanna grow because small businesses
are also kind of peeling out of downtown
as rents get higher mm hmm
and I I hate that
like I
I don't wanna be somewhere else
I don't wanna be King Street with all the same stores
or right
you know I think what makes Greenville unique
is our small businesses and our neighborhoods
and our green space and once we start losing those
which we are you have these bigger box stores come in
and then they eventually often move too
they can handle the turnover
they can handle the cost of high rent
and our small businesses can yeah
I mean my favorite place when
when we have people that visit
and it's not Greenville specific
but it's Mass General Store
that's like my favorite place to
to take people you know
and Opie Taylors right next to it yeah
you know absolutely
I don't take them to you know
I
no shade towards Lululemon
but that like
that's not where I'm like
taking people when they come to visit
you know yeah
as it should it be right
you can go anywhere for that
and if someone wants to go to King Street
they're gonna go to King Street
and they're gonna go to the beach afterward
you know Greenville
I've also seen just like you know
a painting of our old murals and just some of the like
uniqueness and old buildings that I remember changing
and like that's not a bad thing necessarily
but think about
how many people took their engagement pictures
in front of that Coca Cola right yeah
I mean just things like that
I just I don't want us to get kind of paint it over
like I feel like Charlotte has been
just feels very sterile yeah
yeah that
that's a great point'cause a lot of people like to say
we don't want Greenville to become the next Charlotte
but usually that's like density coded
you know like they're
they're talking specifically about that
they don't want people more people coming here and
and us building more but that's
that's a different slant to it and
and I like that
can I ask you a personal question about
or not a personal question
a personal issue for me
downtown where are the food trucks
why do I have to go to a gas station parking lot
to get a food truck
why is it that any other cool city I go to
they have either a food truck district
or they have food trucks easily accessible
like we have incredible food trucks here in Greenville
I
if you I
based on you know
where you live I'm
I'm assuming every now and then
you've been up to a Piney Mountain bike lounge
where they oh yeah
where the tap yeah yup
they have food trucks there all the time
incredible food trucks
that is one of the most disappointing things for me
about downtown Greenville
and I don't usually critique downtown
but that's a major criticism for me
no I I agree
I agree
yeah I'm a big foodie person
so like you know
I stake out the food trucks
I'm I have a list literally that like I wanted
I have to try all of them
if the noodle Lady is anywhere around
I'm I'm at where she's at
so yeah
I hear about yeah I've had hers once and yeah
incredible food truck
yeah I mean
besides those places and the maybe grateful brew
there's not a whole bunch
some other breweries will have some no
I agree there's actually a spot over here near my house
I've been trying to talk with the
the guy who owns it because it's this
it's this front facing on we'd Hampton
but they have this all this back space and I'm like
it's really unactivated and I'm like man
it'd be so cool if that was like
the circle of food trucks in the city
come and park yeah
it doesn't even need to be downtown
even if it was just outside
you know yeah
some somewhere where people could just go
yeah I know
there were some regulations
that changed on it a few years ago
and there was a lot of talk about it
I don't know if that's the reason why
that's a good question state state level
no I think it was local okay
I think it was local but yeah
you know they obviously come downtown for every
like
Main Street Friday and downtown alive on Thursdays
and then every a bunch of city events
they do have food trucks but outside of that yeah
there's not really like a common space to park yeah
and and I feel like we have
I feel like
again like whether it's
you know like even like the Cleveland Park
for instance or the zoo parking lot over there
you know where they have the
I think it's Kona Ice and what not
Kona Ice yeah
but there's always space there you
you it's just like I see all these opportunities
I'm like why why
why are we not maximizing this anyway
I I don't wanna get too
too off the rails that's such a good one OK
I'mma make a note real quick
hahaha look at the regs OK
yeah I'm
I'm I'm very curious and
and I'd be curious if the regs were if
if there is some kind of special interest group
you know I
I don't know if the restaurants have a special
interest group or not
but well you never know
maybe yeah
if it's taking from businesses downtown
there's something related to that
who knows sure
and but I mean
even even like little food carts and things like that
you know
like that wouldn't that it could just be like on
on the sidewalk you know
we have some areas that where there's supple supple
I hate that word why do I use that
there are areas where there's like
a lot of sidewalk space
and
you know it's just like
why not like a little
I do see
Nomad shaved ice
I see them downtown sometimes just on the side
you're right they're really small
it's like a tiny little cart
you know kind of like common pops
mm hmm so anyway
that that's just
that's again
that's a personal thing for me
yeah
very cool so alright let's
let's I know that you wanna zoom out from downtown
I do as well so what
what in terms of like outside of downtown
what's something that you think that the past few years
whatever
however far back you want to go
the city has has actually done well
what's something you're happy about
in terms of what the city has done in
in recent years oh yeah
I mean
definitely you know I
I worked at the county for eight years and
you know I know that everyone's like
oh City County
like we don't get along or we don't
you know
I've seen a lot of working together from the inside
and so I think that's been really great
from like the Swamp Rabbit Trail to
you know different events within the city
they both do use accommodations
tax and support
like cultural events and music and arts and like we
you know the jazz festival when I was first starting
I was like I like with that thing in green
like can we
is that thing like and it's so great
like it's super popular I also really love
my favorite event
probably is the Hampton Pinney Porch Fest
it's just like neighborhood done
neighborhood LED
as someone who did neighborhood plans for a long time
I'm a big fan of like organically created events
you know they're sure
they just come from people
it's not like forced in by any means from the top down
so yeah I love that
I think we have a lot still to do on connectivity
but we've also done a lot on connectivity too
like you said bike and PED
our parks we've got a lot of parks
I have two right
right near my house
so I think recreation is very strong for our city
so we we're doing a lot well
and on the housing side I've been part of that
at the housing fund
I was there for four years and we helped get
you know $12 million towards affordable housing
through a loan with the city
American Rescue Plan dollars
we
help stabilize rent for people who are facing eviction
during Covid
thousands of units hundreds of homes
you know so sure
do you ever get pushed when you talk about that
do you ever
do people ever push back and
and and
you know show hostility towards like
well we shouldn't be building so much
not normally if it's affordable product
OK right
I mean in general
people understand the cost of living is here and like
incomes are here
yeah
but I do think if you it depends what terms you use
cause some people still have an idea of like
affordable housing as you know
public housing or tenements or things like that
and it's just very different than it was
I think in the 60s 70s and 80s
so for sure
you know we
we work with like mixed income communities
so you'd have a neighborhood
or you'd have an apartment complex
or you'd have you know
some duplexes and you wouldn't know
who is a low income tenant and who's not like sure
it's designed to be
good for everybody
and where everybody thrives instead of like
concentrating poverty which is never good
you're right so yeah
so we've done that we've done that before
we shouldn't do that again
no no
and it stinks I mean
I'll say
I think there's still some of that that goes on
just the way our
our federal tax credit system is written sometimes
we still have that and obviously
the cheapest land is gonna be in areas that aren't
don't have higher market value
which tends to run
run along more segregated communities
so yeah I think people here affordability
I'd hear less of a pushback
what I really hear pushback on is kind of
like you were saying before
like I moved here
I don't want anybody else to move here
I'm anti growth I don't want any more people
and you know
I think as a planner
I know that we're gonna have 200,000 more people here
in our county in the next 10 years
and the city needs to healthily
take on a good portion of that
as to not ruin our environment
make our roads turn into Atlanta
like
you know
like have our housing cost like exponentially explode
and so I think you know
there's a healthy balance
and that's where planning really comes into account
because you're looking at the road
you're looking at putting infrastructure in
you don't want to put the cart before the horse
which happens a lot so yeah
for sure yeah
the I believe nationwide that the I
I can't remember if it was it's
it's been bounced between 37 and 39
but I believe that the average
first time home buyer is now 38
and I'm 39 years old I've been a homeowner for
you know for 15 years
it's it's hard for me to believe that like
I could have been renting this whole time
or like living with my parents or something like that
yeah
so what what yeah
I think I was 26 when I got my first house right yeah
which is you know
that is traditionally the American dream
and yeah that's being robbed
people are being robbed of that
what are some things the city can do about that that
you know what
what's what's some meat that's still left on that bone
yes I'm so glad you asked
so on the zoning side
we a few years ago
we mapped some more missing middle
housing within districts
I'm sorry we
we created those districts
but as far as actually where we mapped them
there wasn't there wasn't a lot
so getting out of that
you know just duplex triplex
quadplex smaller garden flat apartments
versus right now we just have a lot of single family
and a lot of multi family
like a lot of larger over 100 200 units
you want more of a healthy blend
to have a different set of price points
and so that changes that really needs more zoning
I think
streamlining our accessory dwelling unit process
we've only built 12 in the two years that
we passed the development code update
wow so yeah
and which why
why is that is that
is that just people people aren't
people aren't seeing
like people aren't applying to add ads or no
I think I think there's some
there's some that yes
I think there's less builders who are doing that
just because it's a less bang for your buck
kind of situation
and also the financing round
it can be tough
but Fanny and Freddy just passed some some changes
so
I think that will allow for some more ADUs to be built
but there are also
were just some things within the permitting process
and certain kit
city regs like you have to face it towards the street
and you have to like orientation wise
and it's got to be lined up exactly with the house
with the setback and like stuff like that
that I think made it difficult
so is that even for like
like areas that are like on an alley
that it wouldn't even be allowed to face
the alley would have to face like the main street right
okay
so they're changing at least we
you know
I and others have put in comments to change that
so
I think that will change along with some other things
for Adus to make it easier
I would love to see tiny home subdivisions
approved in the city
that's something I helped write at the county
and we passed those mm hmm
I think it's a big opportunity
for affordable home ownership
for people who can't enter the market now
also along with affordable home ownership
the city owns a lot of land
and so putting that in a land trust
or a mixed income neighborhood trust
would provide both affordable home ownership for that
kind of 80 to 1 20 Ami as well as you know
some rental for the lower Ami
that you can actually build equity while you rent
and so this is happening in other cities
and I would love
if our city could do the same with their
with their land I think
last would be to incentivize and to fund some of this
to incentivize
you know use of vacant parcels
that have been sitting for a long time
mm hmm you know
that are
that are privately or or government owned
they're privately owned but like kind of like
you know go or get off the pot
like sure
they've been 30 40 years
like can we activate them
can the city work with those private owners
to try to make more happen
you know it's
it's a tool we have at the local level fortunately
sure so
and in terms of the well
let me just say this you're running for City Council
yes and I probably need to clarify to my listeners
that it can be easy to get all these different
council's confused I have criticized County Council
quite a bit on the show over the years
county
not city
it's pretty widely agreed that Greenville city
which is a council you're running for
has a better approach to housing
than Greenville County has
and I think that there's a variety of reasons for that
different voter base for one thing
different things that those voters are
are looking for
but I'm I'm just curious from your perspective
do you perceive that do you
what do you think is happening there
what's the dynamic
I think the city has been a leader in this space
certainly
you know starting from 2015 with our
our homelessness white paper and
the creation of the housing fund I worked at
that's been emulated you know
emulated across the state
but the work that I did at the housing fund
was actually largely with the county
not with the city mm hmm
so I was bridging that divide
and doing so we were able to
which I wouldn't have believed you
if you told me 10 years ago
that we would do any of these things
and I think that
I think it's also a PR thing
I think the county kind of has a bad rap
but really we've done a lot
like we passed $10 million of the American Rescue Plan
of the county towards affordable housing
that's gone into home ownership
affordable home ownership
we've you know
got 5 million of general budget dollars also
towards affordable housing
we passed a multi family tax abatement
which I helped write
along with two other council members
to incentivize the private sector
to enter into affordable housing
right outside of you know
federal tax credits and
you know if you provide a certain percent of affordable
then you're going to get some subsidy back
some actual tax abatements
and so
those that is county wide
but it affected
all the municipalities within the county
as well and so we've actually like done quite a bit
you know it's kind of a teeter totter
like we might go back and forth with the county right
but I think that's why it's so important
I be in this role because I can help bridge that again
with with city and county
knowing their council members much better
and having worked with admin for so long since
I know you've been endorsed by a couple
city and council county council people as well
that's right yeah
so were you involved when the Udo
when the Unified Development Ordinance
was drafted by county
yes I was
so do you do you have any things that you'd like to say
about them scrapping it
oh my gosh hahaha
I had to I'm sorry
no it's fine
it was such a big disappointment honestly
I can understand it to an extent
because the new folks coming in
they're like oh
this is a lot but it was like for five years
at least that we've been working on it
how much money was spent drafting that
do you know off the top of your head
gosh
I don't know I don't know
I would say at least two 50
to the consultants probably more
probably like half a million
if not more
but yeah
my I ran the Greenville Affordable Housing
Coalition at the time and we put
we put our notes in to that
to that development code
to have some of the things I mentioned to you
on the city side also on the county side
the city has some affordable housing incentives
the county didn't and so adding those in
just just some changes
having Adus
being legalized in the county is the biggest one
and really
that to me has been the the hardest loss for this is
cause we just worked really hard yeah
to to make a lot of that Segway yeah
but I still think there
it's still being talked about
I think what you'll see are piecemeal amendments
instead
so you know
what do what do you think what what
what do you think is the outside of like Adus
what do you think is the just
for someone that doesn't really know anything about the
Udo like what should they know about what was in it
and now that the county has essentially said
we're not acknowledging this anymore
what what does that mean
yeah I mean
I think the biggest thing was taking
our code and reforming it to
the way not
it wasn't you know
we have Euclidean zoning still at the county
and that's kind of the the oldest
you know way to think about zoning where
you know you're separating industrial from farmland
and you're making sure things are protected
and separated from each other
it wouldn't take us all the way up to
I'd say what a what we have at the city
which is a form based code
and I think a little more easier to work with
the county is very big and it
it it varies
it's not all urbanized right
so
this would have really streamlined the process
for builders for developers
would have made housing more affordable
I think just from in terms of a process stance
because
when you have a code that you can actually work with
and it's
you know predictable and
easy to follow as a builder or developer
then that that translates to savings
and on the planning side
absolutely
staff like you're
you're you're not going back and forth
constantly on different opinions
you have the land use
matching up with the zoning is the biggest piece
there's a lot of things in there
setbacks are like small little
you know measurements that were off
depending which one you were looking at
so
I think just in terms of uniformity for development is
is the bottom line
and there's a lot of other things around it
of course like housing and
like affordable housing and how we treat land use
preservation of land
I would love some more stuff for our trees
if I see another subdivision just like take out yeah
take out all the trees I mean
yeah I would love
it's a tough balance for for the builders
cause they're getting told we need more
you know we
we need more affordable products and
and the way I'm using affordable
it's still market rate housing right
but we we need that market rate
housing to be as low as possible
so they're just you know
doing the thing that's the cheapest
which is creating
as much density as you can within a single family
framework but it's not very aesthetic
you know
the end result's not not particularly aesthetic
but you know it can be like I live in a cottage yes
you're right
cottage development and it's very well planned
I saw it go through the city
you know many years ago
I was like oh
we're moving my husband was like what
but you don't you don't often see them done well
some divisions done well and so yeah
I think we could you know
there's still it's still a possibility but yeah
it wasn't let's disappoint that yeah yeah
no doubt
you're not the only one that was
that was disappointed to see that happen
hence why I have one of the many reasons why I've been
kind of talking about Greenville County Council
cause there's been a lot to talk about the last
the last few years
so going back pivoting away from county
well well actually not completely pivoting
but one thing I hear on the county level a lot
people really
really concerned about the infrastructure right
as we
as we talk about these matters of building development
it's a lot of you know well
we don't have the infrastructure for it
I heard someone say recently
you know we don't have the
we're not gonna have enough clean water
and that's in direct contradiction
to what the water commissioner
told me yeah
so so
you know and there might be some some disagreements
maybe people disagree with the water commission
I don't know but yeah
I'm I'm curious if you're hearing
infrastructure concerns on the city level
particular as it relates to you know
these builders that are building and what not yeah
I mean I have heard of water sewer capacity in the city
there are certain areas that you know
we've done the project a few years ago the dig project
that has
you know messed with you know
improved that
I've never heard anything about the water quality or
like we want to have clean water
I've not heard that
but I've just heard from a capacity standpoint
in terms of new development and water
sewer capacity especially on the east side of town
and then in some of the older districts where
you know
we had special purpose districts where you know
there were their old houses
right and you got clay pipes and you got all the rest
that needs to be kind of
outfitted and changed over time
especially as we Annex more of the county into the city
we'll see more of that so yeah
I think water sewer capacities definitely
and there's some parts of the town where they're just
literally is not a lot of infrastructure period
like there there never has been
you know think of Green Line
Spartanburg and area
and some other areas where the city actually owns land
that you know
we could use some good infrastructure for sure
but I'm a big believer and before infrastructure you
you put in some plans for
you know home repairs for seniors
do some things like this
land trust for affordable home ownership
so you're not having as much displacement or impact
as you bring infrastructure that way
for sure yeah
that makes perfect sense
so we kind of mentioned this earlier
mentioned about the the state roads and what not
and yeah just just from my personal opinion
I feel like there's been a lot of passing the buck
between the county the city
and the state in terms of who's gonna fix the roads
of course we know that the state has
like more or less a decade backlog
and that gets longer every year
what what needs to actually happen city you know
since
since you've got experience city and county level
what needs to actually happen for us to see
like Spartanburg County they're get
they've figured some things out on some of their roads
what's going on in Greenville
they passed they passed their penny tax
they passed they
they did pass the penny tax that
that some of our
yeah I'm not even gonna go there
I've already I've already talked about that
I've already talked about that I
I I got
I had a lot of people that got angry at me for
for being supportive of that
and I'm typically a minimal tax person but
but the money the money has to come from somewhere
you know it does
and I've seen it up close
I I
I work a lot in the low country
you know and I have family down there
and I've seen what the penny tax has done right
for their roads I mean
they've gone from complete garbage to
like some of the nicest roads in our state yeah
so yeah
I after seeing it up close I
I could appreciate it more
so what we could do are a few things
I think the city you know
we have a a city lobbyist and there's
there's other cities we can work with
I think need to put pressure on the state around this
because that penny tax passed in the city
but we don't have the
authority to enact it within the city
because of precedents at the state level
they've gone ahead and said
even if you pass it with an municipality
you have to do a county wide
it's just silly it's just silly to me
I mean
if we want fix our roads let us fix our damn roads yeah
sorry sorry
no you're fine
that's how I feel about it
you know I also think
something we did at the county
which I really liked is we
and I've heard the city is starting to do this
so I don't know
maybe they heard it on our campaign trail
I don't know I like to think that
but
we've been talking about how the county has been
actually taking care and managing
some of the state roads
they've just been volunteering to take them over
because they're like you're taking so long
we're not even on this list with this other road
let's take you know
advantage of that and we'll monitor
of course you're gonna have to use county taxes to do
and pay for that right
this is the same thing for the city
but I think the city could take on more
of those roads that are so critical
like I think about I think I mentioned
someone got hit on Pennington Street
I reached out to like the city engineer and I was like
this is like problematic like what can we do
you know and I was like
hey yeah
we might let's
we're gonna apply for managing that street
it's like yeah okay
like that's that makes sense yeah
it costs money though so I think one way kind of like
I mentioned with enforcement
you know I think those things are all interrelated and
if we get a local penny tax
that would be the best option to pay for this
those roads within the city
that we pass through a penny tax in the city
when you say local you mean county
I meant like
like if we can get the state to approve that change
and get cities ah
I see be able to pass the penny tax
I don't know if they'd have to do a whole another vote
or if they just retroactively be like
you just approved it like technically
but sure we probably have to have another vote
most likely yeah
most likely but then
we could use those
for those city roads that we find really problematic
and people are getting really hurt
yeah yeah
for sure yeah
that's I mean
that's I feel like I
I feel like
is one of the biggest bugaboos about the area
yeah and there
there's just a lot of
there's just a lot of strange political grandstanding
I feel like that that's just going on
I
I actually know people that I think too
like the procurement process
I want to say is a little more simple at the city too
so I think you have less red tape around city roads
like the the
the cost gets so inflated for state roads versus county
and right city
so I think it's also just a sayer city to taxpayers
I'm sorry I interrupted you no
you're fine yeah
no I was just gonna say there are some
there are some public figures that grandstand against
the penny sales tax that privately voted for it
and that that was when I found that out
I was not very happy haha
I didn't know that yeah
I did I did see
my friend said he saw a council member
putting a sign out against the penny tax
and I think I'm like
I'm pretty sure that's you can't do that
that's illegal hahaha
oh yeah
that's that's an interesting one yeah
I don't I didn't realize that
but they didn't catch them on camera
so it meant nothing wow
I was like Dang
that's why you always take a picture yeah
yeah it's it's it's kind of crazy
I I think eventually the appetite will be there
you know for people to accept
you know hey
we're gonna have to
this is not gonna get done without more money
and nobody likes that I hope so
it's just so hard though
because the cost of living is just so
that's the problem and and and the mileage
the mileage rate increase
I think I think that
all happening around the same time
was really disadvantageous
absolutely and and we shouldn't have waited 30 years
that's just insane like that's
that's just coming back to bite us in the butt
because we waited so long yeah
yeah I don't know
I think cost of living is so high
I think it's just gonna be very hard
but something has to be done
something has to be done yeah
absolutely
well I've got a couple more questions here
I know you're busy and
sure and
and then we can let you let you get back on the trail
probably people don't realize just how much actually
I'm gonna let you just say this
people probably don't realize how much goes into a
a city Council campaign I have
oh my gosh you know
over the years not on the show
but over the years
I have interviewed many city council candidates in
in other capacities and people don't
probably
don't realize that the City Council campaign budgets
oftentimes exceed six figures
it's
it's it's pretty well with Greenville City
not necessarily the smaller cities
yeah
so it's it's kind of a big deal
so it is why don't
why don't you you know
let's let's take a pause from the issues
what what are you kind of doing right now
with regard to your campaign
but you're you're talking to me right now
but with regard to your campaign yeah
yeah I mean
so the end of this month yeah
that is the end of our I think it's our third quarter
it is yeah
you're right $100,000 I think is we're at currently
or I think we're just past that
we're probably at 1:15 I think we're aiming for 1:25
it's yeah
it's ridiculous I mean
it's crazy just a lower middle class family like
I don't know with student debt and like yup
two kids that one I pay way too much for childcare
the other one is in is in elementary school thankfully
yeah
it's very interesting you know
I don't come from money
and I don't like live in that world
but it's really heartening
I will say we have a ton of donors
like I think over 600 maybe 700 donors
wow
and the average donation is 1:50
you know so yeah
that I think that tells you a lot
of course
there are large donors mixed in
but I think that tells you something
and for sure the kind of campaign we're running and
yeah it's a lot of work
it's a lot of phone calls
it's a lot of getting
going to people's houses and smoothing and talking
yep
which I always kind of drag myself to
and then by the time I leave
I love it because I get to meet new people and yeah
talk about what I care about
so totally get that
there's sometimes this podcast is like that
where it's like
ah I've got to record
I've got to get the recording in before
you know before Tuesday evening
and then and then I get going
then I'm like oh yeah
that and then I finish it
I was like oh yeah
that was great right exactly yeah
but it's gonna do it
the grind of a podcast isn't anything
like the grind of door knocking
and cold calling no yeah
it's it's really over a year long process
and I I mean
many years before
I'd say even because I think it's good to like
you know I've been very active in the community
I've set I've served on dozens of boards and
and leadership and chair different groups
throughout the county even just separate from my work
so I think that goes a long way too
you know you can't just like step in and be like
hey I'm gonna like
you know you should probably have like
some idea of the issues and solutions and
have met and know the community well
so absolutely so really it's like a long time actually
if you think about it yeah
yeah for sure
so
I wanna pivot back to affordable housing for a second
but from maybe a little bit of a different perspective
yeah
so in general one thing I've Learned over the years is
you know as I've been involved in
in kind of the background of local politics yeah
it is that for the most part politicians
when you talk about affordable housing
whether whether to them or to you know
just the general public the first thing that
comes to mind
is either some form of subsidized housing yes
or requirements placed on developers to have
you know certain percentage of their
inventory be earmarked for people at certain
am I or area median incomes that you've already
percentages you've already referenced
excuse me
but you know
I'm I'm very
I'm always looking at you know
different studies
when it comes to housing affordability
because that's
that's something that directly impacts my line of work
and I see a lot of
studies that show that market rate housing
even luxury housing pushes down prices downstream
in fact
this is
this is an interesting thing I just covered on the show
just a couple weeks ago
how
for the first time since the global financial crisis
market rate new construction is now cheaper
than existing home sales yes
so so now
now you can on median you can buy a new
a brand new house for $25,000 less than an
a current an existing home
so so I'm curious
your feelings towards market rate housing
and if you think we should be encouraging more of that
in the city of Greenville
yeah oh yeah
I mean we need all housing
like I'm a big believer in more product
more inventory we've seen it in other countries
we even have just seen it in Austin
they build a lot of missing middle and
at all different price ranges
and as of as a way of doing that
they've stabilized rent when you say missing middle
just so that people kind of understand that you're
you're talking about
you're talking about the in between of single family
and like high density correct exactly
exactly like 1 to 4 unit yeah
it's a lot of yeah infill products
you might think kind of in and
in and around neighborhoods
I think the larger density forms
you know make sense on your four
your six your eight lane high
you know academy and things like that right
that's where we need to bolster some growth
and have it be more appropriate
and then with some greater
you know economies of scale
is how you sometimes can make that afford
affordability work better
I do think though the market is always gonna take
you know you're always gonna
it could be built by like a low end
you know person
but if it's right downtown
you know they're selling for $800,000 yeah
I'm saying
I saw Ryan Homes the other day and it's like 7:50
I'm like what
yeah it could be shocking
and of course
Ryan Homes product and of course Ryan Homes
you know they do have they
they have tiers of of products as well that they sell
it's not they do not one size fits all
but yeah it's true
it's true they do
you know it's so I think it's
I think product is important
and inventory is important
but do I think
policy and public policy needs to help the
help the market no
I think I think it needs to help
reduce regulation and increase the process
so in that way it would help everybody
not just market
all builders all architects
I work with architects all the time that are like these
these rules are just so like innocuous
it's the little things like that
like really going overboard on design guidelines
and things like that
that they've done on the West Coast and then like
are now stepping back to be like
that was just too much actually
it's hurting housing affordability
I'm a big believer of that
because I also want character like
like we were talking about
I don't want everything to look the same
Ew absolutely
yeah and then
and there there are some
some great opportunities on the middle housing
you know with these
you know putting townhomes together that
you know look like
you know like when you're
when you're walking for instance
in like an older city you know
DC for instance you know
there's so much character
with all these little town homes
and what not and nobody
nobody looks at that and like ugh
you know all this density really
yeah exactly
I think you know
there are areas where the heavier stuff makes sense
our CBD needs to definitely be taken on the
most of the density
I think
by and large though
our policy and our our main focus should be you know
reducing regs to make affordability better
increase inventory the market's always gonna be there
like people are moving in here
like speculative and from other places
we're gonna keep making these top 10 lists
we're gonna like we don't you know
I don't think we need to stress that
I do think we need to stress providing work
workforce housing our teachers can't live here
our police officers can't live here
and if we want we don't want to go the same round
the low country is gone
and which I see like constantly
their restaurant retail workers
as soon as they can get a job somewhere else
close to home they're out of here right
you know and
and that's what makes Greenville great
is just all of the unique businesses
and the character and creativity
and some of just like the best food
I mean you know
you're foodie too so
but that can't be that can't happen
if we're not supporting that workforce
for sure absolutely
no yeah
that that food is cooked by those people yeah
and served by those people yeah
and it's sad to me that like our our our nurses
our teachers
our police officers fire firemen and women like yeah
they can't afford to live here
that's that's sad I think that's very sad
I think a thriving community is one that's
truly inclusive and there's something for everybody
yeah absolutely
and that's something
you know I
I think that a lot of the
the conversation right now that we're hearing locally
is people aren't realizing that
cause I I know that
that what I hear a lot of times is
there's a lot of appetite for more
commercial development for more stores
for more restaurants you know for
for things that benefit me right I
I'm already a homeowner you know
so what do
so I don't care about affordability for homes
I just want more places to shop and
and consume right
that's the sentiment I keep hearing
and then you ask people well
but where are those workers going to live
and then oh
and by the way you know
you have a a 12 year old
did you know that the average
first time home buyer is 38 years old now
do you want them living with you for the next 26 years
absolutely you know and
and these are sorts of questions and
and this is where
we start to get into the discussion of
of you know
you mentioned regulation I have
I have a property
on Hampton Avenue in downtown
yeah that I
I bought that was in really bad condition
when I bought it a few years ago
and we rehabbed it and everything and
you know
getting in a different city inspector every single time
they one inspector will say
you need to do these things and another one will come
in and say actually that's not important
you gotta do all these other things
and then you'll get a third one
and it's like no
actually it was and it's just like we
you know like get sometimes getting a
a certificate of occupancy is like a Marathon
like it's it's a livable house but
but it's not livable by like
the city or the county doesn't consider it livable
same for commercial
they have some of the same struggles
it's it's so
so what can be done about that
yeah I mean
the form based code that we had from two years ago
I think was supposed to change and help some of that
there's still a lot of kinks
and that's why they're doing this update
just over these next few months
to kind of fix some of those things
I think
you know that just feels like
it just feels like me when I'm in this situation
I have I'm literally at the whim of
of the inspector and if I
if I get you know
we had one in during this whole process
one guy that came in and literally he had just
he was a commercial builder
until he became a city inspector and
and he he forced us to
to do commercial code for a residential property
and we had nothing we had no recourse
there was nothing we could do to push back on yeah
some of that some of that
is state level like in terms of whatever
you know the structure of it was
a townhome or duplex
or in our zoning code at the state
we are treating some things in high
treating them at a higher standard of construction
versus them really being that missing middle product
why are they held to the same standard as a large
multi family
and so part of it is state
but I think there are some things locally
that I've heard from folks that could be changed to
to to your point to like lessen that that same
you know litmus test of construction as a commercial
but it's because you're renting it
I'm sure they were like oh
it's well it's gonna fall
it's commercial like it was just a residential use
it was just one inspector the
the other ones
that didn't have that commercial background
didn't bring the commercial code into it
yeah so you're just getting all these opinions
and it's totally different
exactly that that was the
that was the whole problem
is that it was just like one step forward
two steps back
so yeah I just wish that we could you know
just and I'm
I know I'm not the only one that there was just some
some kind of reform that could happen on that level
yeah I think that some
some takes some diving down into the weeds
but I'm that kind of person
that's what I like so yeah
I look forward to that well
that's great last question
this is just kind of a catch all
in case we miss something
what are is there anything that you're focused on
or anything you just want to share with the audience
that
that you're doing or that you want to do
or anything like that that
that we've not talked about up to this point
yeah I mean
we've talked about
I think transit a little bit in housing
yep
a little bit on trees
I would love our city to use our $3 million
we're sitting on for a tree fees
I helped write that ordinance and
you know replanting what we lost in Helene
going ahead and getting rid of the dead trees
that ahead of storms
you know so we're not kind of sit in the same
sitting in the same place
we have 100 year old oaks that are aging out
all over the city mm hmm
so getting ahead of that
a lot of those were the ones that
that were compromised during the storm too
that's bad
and
you know I see it
I've seen the city leaning on some properties
and they don't clear cut
and then some other ones they do
and I just feel like if it's within that setback zone
of the development plan please god
just do what you can to save those trees
like maybe that's I mean
if they're dead that's something else
or diseased sure
but that's utility cost that's quality of air
that's you know
providing a buffer of sound for neighbors
and I wish we would do some more on that
last our
our big one is childcare
just through some zoning changes
we could have that be more accessible in our city
right now it's a child care desert so
we got some we got some animals in the background
that's awesome
so
I think we could do more around
just making that zoning more friendly
and also like
the after school
and the summer camp programs that we have now
through the city
they're overly subsidized
so that's actually I think
kind of fiscally irresponsible
like why am I paying the same
as somebody who makes $20,000 a year
I could pay more of my fair share
and we could have more spots for kids
like we used to have pre covid
and maybe even open have some more funds left over
to open up for age under 4
which is the hardest to provide in our city
and that's economic development
that's like gets people to work
yeah you know
absolutely it could be a big boost in our city
that's great well Tina
thank you so much
for taking the time to come on the show
I will
I'll ask you for whatever contact information
it is that you want to include in the show notes
so for those of you that are listening or watching Tina
I'll put some information in the show notes
where you can find out more about Tina
about her campaign reach out to to her
or if you have a campaign manager
however you wanna handle that
like I said
I'll get with you after after we're done recording here
but thank you so much and
and and I really hope you know
these next few weeks are gonna be a grind
but but I hope the campaign goes well for you
thank you I appreciate it Stan
all right that is it for today's episode
thank you guys
so much for listening or watching on YouTube again
my contact information is in the show notes
Tina
Belge's contact information will be in there as well
and
just a reminder as always
please like rate review
subscribe all of those good things
we will talk to you guys next time!