>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work with the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s, and I used to live in

a Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect on

what's happening both to us and around us. This

podcast is meant to help you take a moment to stop

and think about where you are, where you're going, and

where your relationship with God fits into it all.

Every week, I meet a new guest who tells me about something they

experienced which changed their life forever. And by

talking about the things they wish they'd known at the time, we

explore the idea that God is in all things. And

we'll talk about the part that faith plays in navigating life's

challenges.

Today, I'm speaking to Laura. She grew up in

Colombia, and after working for different NGOs,

she moved here to the UK to do a Master's.

What impacted me about Lara's story is how her

experience, experience in Colombia impacts her

work and how she responds to people. So,

Laura, what was it like? Growing up in Colombia

>> Laura: It's the most amazing country. Of course I'm biassed, but I could stay here,

like, talking forever of how amazing the country is because

the weather is amazing, the food is amazing, the people are

amazing. But when I was growing up,

Colombia used to have the longest armed

conflict in the world. And even when that

I'm privileged enough because I wasn't or

any of my family was part of that or was

directly touched by the conflict, that was always

in the background. So in the news, you can hear, like,

always news about that. And

basically I grew up hearing about the

conflict, so that gave me a lot of perspective also

because my dad used to be a judge.

So those two things mixed

inside me. And, I grew up

feeling that I wanted to do something, that

I wanted to create a change

in my country first. So

that's, why I grew up in Colombia. I had a really,

a really happy childhood, years and all of that,

but, yeah, always with this sad

background.

>> Julia: Did your dad being a judge inspire you?

>> Laura: Yes, he inspired me to study political science. He's

a lawyer. But it's funny because I was convinced that

I needed to work inside the government to be able to do a change.

I have never had any positions inside the

government, and I'm not planning to, at this point,

I didn't know exactly why, but. Or what.

But he inspired me to study something related

with society and to understand the context and

like to know more why things were in the way

they were. So, yes.

>> Julia: Can you tell me more about studying at the Jesuit University

in Colombia?

>> Laura: For me, my university time

was a life changing experience. I went

really young to university and

university opened me a new worth.

So I truly believe in the Jesuit education in

the way that it transforms you because it's

not just like the academical part of the

things, but also it's the integral part

of it. So being able to go to the university

there allowed me to do a lot of volunteer

work and to know another realities,

to be able to interact with people

with different backgrounds. So I felt that I had

the privilege of enjoy a really

integral education. That's what the Jesuit

education is looking for at the end. So

yes, it was a transformative experience for me and

it kind of showed me what I wanted to do

because I used to be part of two volunteers, one

during the semester and the other one at the end of the semester.

And I used to go to more m rural or

neglected places in the country to do social

projects with people in the communities.

I realised that that was what I wanted to

do for a l at the time. Of course I

didn't know how to combine those things. At the end I could.

But yes, it showed me the path that I wanted to

follow basically.

>> Julia: And so how did you get started on that path?

>> Laura: I think the first step was, as I said,

being able to participate in all these

volunteer opportunities and all those things that the

Jesuit education, because I know it's not just the university

that I went, but it's just all the Jesuit education,

offers. and then I knew

that I wanted to have a work where I could

be directly in touch with people. Of course

you always going to have a work where you have

your desk and you have your computer and it's

you and answering emails. But I knew that I wanted

to have a job where I could have contact

with people, where I can be directly involved with

communities where I could go and see

how they live and be sensitive and be present.

So the first job that I had before,

after graduation was because of

the longest conflict in Colombia. There is an

organisation who deal with

IDPs international displaced people in

Colombia. So I used to m. That was my first job after

university. So basically I

needed to interview them to see how they

were living and to check that they were like

living in good conditions anyway. And then

that was like my first experience. It was really hard

because even when I was really sensitive,

I Didn't have, like, any training on

psychological tools, if you wish. And of course, if you

are going to be in a really sensitive environment, you need

to be able to have, like, psychological tools available

to deal with personal stories.

But that teached me a lot and I'm so

grateful because I think that that job, shape

the rest of the jobs that I have.

Then I, started to work with WFP Network

Food programme in Colombia. They were, managing

a programme where they have, like,

mobile units and they used to go to

different places in the country to reach kids

and to give them food, but also do

all the integral thing that is behind food.

So basically they were giving

psychological services to the kids, they

were doing training for the parents, these type of

things, not just giving food and guns.

And then since 2015,

there are a lot of Venezuelans coming to Colombia because

Venezuela is going through,

I don't know how to call that, but people is

leaving the country because of the political

situation that is happening there. So

before coming here, I worked with

UNHCR in Botha, that is the

capital of the country. And I was in

charge of all the humanitarian aid

projects that UNHCR

Bogota used to offer. And

that was also really special because it allowed

me to understand all the things that

refugees and migrants need to go

through every time they flee their own countries.

And I still have that feeling. And that, How do you

say that? Like, I'm still really sensitive

because of that experience also because now I'm a

migrant myself. It's not. Not the same, but

that's the way that I have found before coming here

to combine those two things. And then I came to study a

master's degree in human rights and I decided to

stay because I found the job in Jesuit missions.

>> Julia: So how has your experience in

Colombia shaped your approach to international development?

>> Laura: I think that because I had the

opportunity to work before coming here

and to be on the other side, I have,

like, a special sensibility in the way

that now I'm working in a, rich

country who is the one who has the funds

to give to countries that

are not so rich. But I used to work in a

country that doesn't have so many resources.

So I think that I can bring that perspective to the work that

I'm doing because I'm really aware what it means

to send money on time, to be,

supportive with the partner, because I

used to be in the other side, so I think that I bring

to the job that I'm doing.

>> Julia: So you work for Jesuit Mission.

And when people

traditionally think of mission or missionary,

they think of somebody taking their faith

to a different country. But how has that

shifted?

>> Laura: Yeah, that's the way that it used to be when

Jesuit missions started. So it was basically

British missionaries going to

Africa, Asia, Latin America to

teach faith. that's not the way that it is

anymore. So basically now,

and I think that is something

that could be different from like

working Jesuit missions that working in other types

of NGOs. It's that now,

even when we still work with Jesuits in the

ground, they were born there, now they are part

of the community where they are working.

It doesn't feel that you are imposing

something. Of course, we as an institution, we

have priorities and there are some

geographical areas that we are more interested on.

but still we work with them

as partners. So we hear their

voices, we are worried about their

concerns, we try to amplify their

voices. So we don't go to any specific country

saying m, this is a piece of work that we want to do. Who

can implement that for us? It's basically

the community. It's organised

around the thing that they want to solve

or the problem that they have. And we

came giving money, but also

helping them to raise their voice.

So we don't impose, as I say, we don't impose anything

to them. It's basically we accompany the community.

That's the difference. Yeah, we used to come from

this old vision of what a visionary

was, but now everything is coming from

the communities. Now everything is with a, bottom

up emphasis. Beyond that, us

telling them what to do. And we also recognise

that because we are partners, we also have

things to learn from them. It's not just

us giving them training and letting

them know what we want and what we expect.

It's also asking, what do you want from

us? What do you need from us? What type of resources

we can do?

>> Julia: So I guess it's in a way a, good

demonstration of Catholic social teaching in that

it's subsidarity, it's giving people

the decision, the power to make the decisions for

themselves rather than someone making the

decision for them and saying, here's this money, you need to spend it this way.

It's more saying, like, how can you empower yourselves as a

community to do what works best for you?

>> Laura: Yeah. And even when they, the places that we work,

of course, are historical places where

the British province used to be,

or like countries where the,

that were part of the British province in the past, even

when there is that, we know that we need

to change. We know that we need to evolve those

type of relationships. So, now, as I was saying,

all the missionaries are part of the community and

we work with that. And, yeah, we trust

their views.

>> Julia: M. So what does decolonizing mission

work mean for you personally?

>> Laura: So for me, I think that I'm a mix

of everything, because now I'm here in the UK working,

but also I'm not from here, I'm not from Europe.

So it means to bring their voices,

to listen to them, to, of course, I

need to ask questions and read reports and make

comments, but it's also to understand

that they are our partners.

So we work together. We are in the same level

and we have some knowledge that probably they don't. But

in the same way, in the other way around, they have

some knowledge and they have some experience, and they

are there in the front light, you could say, doing the

work. And there is bravery on

that. We cannot say that they are doing a bad job

or we cannot say how. We cannot teach

them how to do their work. So that, for me, it's

decolonized. The work that I do. Bring their voices,

don't talk in their behalf. They have their own voices.

Give them platform to express themselves.

>> Julia: You just reminded me of, when I went to Sierra Leone

on, when I was. I stayed there for four weeks

and I was visiting local farmers and

their projects, and they were showing me how they, like,

grind up different seeds and stuff. And they

were like, your turn. And then I was absolutely useless at it,

so definitely would not have any advice.

but do you have any projects that you've seen

firsthand which have stayed with you or struck you?

>> Laura: Yeah. Last year I had the opportunity to visit Zambia and

Zimbabwe. And of course, even when those

used to be historical places and we have

historical tights with those countries

now, we are supporting some projects that are.

Are trying to retain children in the

schools. So giving them, like a

bike or something to eat or the

uniform or toiletries, you can

help them to keep going to school.

And I had the opportunity in Zambia to meet one

young boy. His name is Timothy.

And basically he used to live

really far from the school. And he

needed to walk, like, three hours to reach

school every day and three hours

to, go back to his house every day.

And because of that, he was, of course,

really tired. He wasn't being able to

pay properly attention in class. he used

to reach school after the breakfast time,

so sometimes he didn't have any breakfast.

So the situation wasn't good. He Used to live

just with his grandmother. His parents abandoned

him and then he started

to be part of the programme that we are supporting there, that

it's called joasa. And

he received a bike. And of course his life

changed massively because now

it takes him like 45 minutes, one hour to

reach the school. He never miss breakfast

again. Now he's one of the best of the

class and he wants, and he was telling

me that he wants to

graduate and go to school and he wants to become a doctor

and stay in the community to help. So that

stayed with me, but not with a

pity feeling. I don't feel. And I never felt pity for

him. I feel that. And that's

also related with Decolonize. The work that we do,

we need to help people to empower themselves. We

need to see them not just like

the poor boy that I need to help, the poor boy

that needs something from me. Of course he

needs our support. But he's

a person who has their own tools and we

can empower him to be whatever he would like

to, but from a responsibility

sense more than a, pity.

So, yeah, that was really powerful,

Sam.

>> Julia: So I guess how mission has changed is it's more about

empowering people, in this iron age. And I

think whether you're doing mission work

internationally or in this country, it's still that same

like you need. People need empowering.

>> Laura: Yeah, yeah, totally, totally.

And if you recognise that they have their

own strengths, I think that's the first step.

You don't know. You don't know. I mean, of course you

know things, but I cannot go over

there to tell people in Guyana, for

example, how to do their work if I

work in Wimbledon. So

that, that wouldn't have any sense. And that's

something that I have found really interesting with

working with the Jesuits here. Because of

course the Jesuits are part of the church, but they

allow to do this empowering work

and this accompanied work with communities that, that

they are working with.

>> Julia: So what's the difference between working for Jesuit missions

and a larger ngo?

>> Laura: I will say that the bottom up

emphasis, with the larger NGOs

that I worked with, they used to have

procedures and priorities that,

not even those procedures and those priorities

were not even chose

inside of the country that we were working like they

were chosen in some

HQ office in Switzerland or

wherever. and I think that's the difference

also the motivation, of

course. I think that we are really touched by the

Ignatian spirituality. So we have

time to reflect on the work that we do.

And to say probably this is not the way that we would

like to and correct that. That, work

or that path.

>> Laura: So, yeah, like the motivation to do the work.

I have found that it comes from a different

place that does make a lot of

sense.

>> Julia: And I guess I kind of want to go back to the communities

that you work with, but it might also be a question of how

you work as well. How do you see good at work in

the communities you support?

>> Laura: I would say that first of all, I'm really sensitive

of all the story of the places that I'm going to.

And when I'm there, I.

I will enjoy to speak with people, not just with the

project staff, but also with the. The

beneficiaries of the. Of our project, if you wish.

Not just to ask them their stories and how the project has

impacted their lives. That's really important. Please don't get

me. but also to know

their perspective about the country that they live in

and.

>> Julia: Yeah.

>> Laura: What is the vision? What is their views?

I really like to listen

the different stories and the different

worries and everything.

And I think that's

invaluable in the work that I do. And

that keeps me sensitive because

if you lose your sensibility, it doesn't have

any sense to keep doing this type of work.

>> Julia: I m. Guess you're seeing that person

as an individual with their own dignity

and respect, rather than just

a beneficiary of the project as well.

>> Laura: Yeah. And I really like

to say every time that we run a campaign or every time

that we reach our supporters, that is

important to say that our beneficiaries are

people with dignity more than

pity faces.

>> Julia: I guess it also comes down to that mentality of it's us

and them, but actually seeing everyone as

our brothers and sisters.

>> Laura: Exactly. Yes.

>> Julia: What do you wish more people understood about privilege and

responsibility and mission work?

>> Laura: That there is nothing wrong with having privilege.

The wrong thing is not to. To do

anything with it. So. And I'm

saying this like in, Like in a

personal level, of course, I recognise that I'm

a really, really privileged person. I

went in a country where going to university is

a privilege. I went to a really good university

and I. I had the privilege to come here

to do a master's degree and to be able to study in

a different country. Even when I'm struggling with it,

I'm able to speak another like other Lang.

And now I'm working here and I know I'm white

and I know that I'm really a really

privileged person. But I try to,

every time that I speak, I try to use

that as a base and say, I know that I'm

talking from the privilege, but

whatever you name it, that's something that

is always in the top of my head, that

I'm a really privileged person because I had

a lot of opportunities and that's the only difference

for me. And from a, refugee in South Sudan,

that I had all these opportunities,

that someone invested in my education,

someone gave me food. Even when I grew up in

a country who has like, or who used

to have like an Internet conflict, I was

privileged enough to be able to live in different

cities where that was happening.

So that is always in the top of my

head. And I think in a way,

that could inspire me

because I don't need to find

inspiration, like external inspiration for the

things that I believe or for how

I see things. I found them in my own

history, in my own country, in the

realisation of the things that I have. And the only

difference between me and, and the person who

doesn't have that is that I was born

in a specific family. You need to

embrace your privilege to be able to do something with it

in the same time that you need to embrace the

history of the place that you were born to try to change

it. so, yeah, I would like people

to be more aware of that, that it's totally

okay to have privilege, but you need to

do something with your privilege. Starting

for saying, I'm, privileged. That's why

I have the responsibility to do something. But

from the empowering, path, not

from better or I have this and I'm,

superior or whatever. No, from.

Embrace your responsibility.

>> Julia: I guess it's a challenge of people acknowledging

their privilege in the first place. and

is there a way to support people with that,

like specifically with.

>> Laura: The work that we do? I think that's something that we try to

do through, the campaigns

and through the advocacy work that we do. But sometimes it's

hard to say people, you need to be aware that the place,

you were born and all the privileges that you have for that.

Because that message is not well taken among

people in the majority of the

cases. So we try to

be aware of that without

telling people what to do, because that could be offensive in

a different way as well. I think there is a, quite challenging

balance to have when you are saying

that to people.

>> Julia: Yeah, definitely. And not everybody

in this country comes from a place where they grew

up as a multimillionaire so.

>> Laura: Yes, exactly.

>> Julia: Like, a lot of people in this country have a lot of their

own challenges and struggles. And, And while that

might be very different from people who are

living in extreme poverty, there's still

the reality of their own situation.

>> Laura: Exactly. And we try to connect what is happening

here with what is happening around the

world. So I think that could be the key in

some way, like, try to show that what you

do here, it has an effect on

what is happening in any other place in the world.

>> Julia: Yeah, that's so true. I used to, talk with young people about

how it's possible, our brothers and sisters around the world

and trying to get them to realise

that the actions that you take in this

country has an impact globally. And I

can't remember off the top.

>> Laura: Of my head, I used to say.

>> Julia: This quote all the time, but there's a quote that before you even had your

breakfast, you have relied on half of the world.

The idea that you get out of bed, you

probably didn't physically make the bed, didn't make

the sheets, you go downstairs to have breakfast,

you've probably not grown the food yourself, etc. You can

make small decisions, can have a real difference

on other people's lives.

>> Laura: And I think it's also this Jesuit

concept that we are connected

and we are. So I think that we try

to show that through the campaigns and

through the, things that we advocate for.

But of course, trying to have a balance

between what I was saying and, what people

understand about privilege or the reason why

they don't see their privilege.

>> Julia: It's really challenging, actually, to think about in terms

of, where privilege comes from, because I

think quite often we assume it comes from your

financial situation. But actually if you just said

it's also about what opportunities you have and

where you happen to be born or which family

you've grown up with. yeah, there's a. I

think that's something that's going to stay with me, that thinking about.

Actually, it's not necessarily about what money

you have or had, it's just about the

opportunities you've been given.

>> Laura: Yeah. And what, what you do with them.

>> Julia: Yeah, absolutely.

>> Laura: And I think that's the way that,

like, going back to the, What is the way that I

decolonize the work that I do. And I think that

we give people opportunities and I think

that empower people if we give them

opportunities. For example, Timothy, the project, give

him a bike. That was an opportunity for him to

grow up and be able to have

food or, like, go to the school and it

was an opportunity. It is not because, oh,

I'm superior, you know, it's because we

give him an opportunity that otherwise he wouldn't be

able to have. And I think that's also part of

the work that we do and, and the part of

how decolonized the work, giving

opportunities, understanding that that's

the only thing that it's different from, like

from us than from others and from

the people that are being the beneficiaries of the projects that

we work with.

>> Julia: And I guess those are opportunities is about giving people the

opportunity to make a choice.

>> Laura: Exactly.

>> Julia: So that young boy who you mentioned, he has the choice now to go to

school or go to the market, do something else.

But he's been empowered with his

opportunity to go to school and he'll finish.

>> Laura: His education and he has more time now and

he can study and he can read

and do those things that he

wasn't being able before.

>> Julia: So what do you wish he knew about decolonizing mission

work?

>> Laura: That doing a job from a,

ah, decolonized perspective will take the others

to decolonize as well. and

even when that could be really obvious

sometimes the places that I have had the

privilege to visit, I realised that the project

staff or the beneficiaries, they

still have a really colonised

mindset. So

that is really obvious. But that was also

really shocking when I started to realise that it

was necessary not just to be decolonized

for me and for my work but also try

to give the opportunity, opportunity to others to think

what they were doing in a

decolonized emphasis. So I will say

that try to understand that not

everyone have had the opportunity to

decolonize the way that they do their work

and try to balance that's really challenging

and I'm still working on that.

>> Julia: And what are you most grateful for?

>> Laura: I'm grateful for all the opportunities that I have path in

my life. That's how I'm here today. So

yeah, I'm really grateful.

>> Julia: Well, thank you for joining us.

>> Laura: No, thank you for inviting me.

>> Julia: Thanks for listening to things. I wish I knew. I know this

episode is going to change the way I think about privilege.

Lara shared how it's about the opportunities you receive

and the choices you make. How about

you? We love to hear how Laura's story resonated

with you. And why not also tell us if you're facing your an

experience you wish you knew how to look at differently. It

might just be something we can help with. Find out

more about this theme and

others at thinkingfaith.org. Thank you again

for listening, and I hope you'll join me again next time

on Things I Wish I Knew.