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Welcome

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back to Emanating the weekly podcast for acquisition entrepreneurs,

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holdco, builders and search fund investors in the UK, Europe and beyond.

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I'm your host, Gareth Wilkins, co-founder, CEO of Pitch Crunch Fast Becoming the

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end to end platform and Power tool suite for small business succession M&A.

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Our guest this week is Robert Shaw, founder of Shaw Fox

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Partners, a search fund whose journey is anything but conventional.

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He's come from vaccine research

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at Harvard Business School through biotech analysis on Wall Street.

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A senior director at AstraZeneca focusing on M&A and oncology,

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and then on to managing 50 million assets under management at a London

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family office and now has arrived as an acquisition entrepreneur.

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At 45, Robert describes himself as a mid-career searcher at the tail

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end of a typical age distribution, a challenge that being of equivalent

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age, sir.

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But with an MBA from Cambridge and a Ph.D.

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in medicine from St Andrews, he channels his experience

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in personalized medicine and biotechnology into his vehicle.

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SHAW Fox Partners, which is focused entirely on health care acquisitions.

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So today

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we're going to explore how his scientific background

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has helped him navigate the search process.

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And we're going to hear his insights on AI in the search space and in medicine

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and his advice about managing budgets and broken deals.

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Robert, welcome to M&A using Gary.

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Many thanks for having me and for the feedback for the kind words

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for a career that's been built on curiosity,

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it certainly has come out well on the other side of the Bosporus.

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Here we are.

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So yeah, like I said, many thanks for having me on.

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Very happy to answer questions.

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And guys, hopefully anybody who's coming behind me.

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that's very gentlemanly of you and

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very much in the spirit of this podcast.

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We want this to be an inspiration

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for all searchers, either currently in the trenches or those

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that are considering this as a career path for them.

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So let's get into that curiosity that took you into this space.

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I think it's a great trait to have for any searcher, frankly, that open

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mindedness and willing to step outside one's comfort zone.

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But if you could, I've given a bit of a

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sort of brief Reader's Digest version of your career.

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I'm sure it felt a lot longer and more protracted than that.

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But give us the the

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the sort of blow by blow, if you don't mind, from your journey

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at Harvard through to AOL today.

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Yeah, well, just to take a

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step back for a day or two that I as you can tell from the accent of machines,

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I grew up in 1980s Joplin classic blue collar background.

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My dad was a painter decorator.

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My mum's a housewife, and this was me and my

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five siblings and every one of us, boys and girls

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included, grew up on the building sites with my dad and just learning to trade.

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And maybe that's where the entrepreneurial bug was first

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and foremost us in that you would see all sorts of readings

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dealing some legal not, which you would see

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a very pure entrepreneurial spirit there in the building sites.

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Fast forward to when I was 18.

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Like most 18 year olds, you don't really know what you want to do.

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But I did know that I enjoyed maths, physics,

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analytical

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processing, so engineering felt like a very natural fit for me.

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At the time.

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I did my undergrad in engineering, took in City University

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and then thereafter I went on to work for Ericsson

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telecommunications giants.

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Fast forward to 2930 and

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I thought

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at the time that the problems that we were solving

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were quite big enough in that kind of naivety and almost

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delusional, misplaced confidence that you would have at that age.

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But one problem that I did see, and I suppose at 30 years of age,

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you start to get a better handle on life

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issues in medicine.

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So my father at the time was very sick with terminal brain cancer and it was

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it was started really that

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introduction to very real world problems

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and illness that I decided, okay, this is a problem that hasn't been solved.

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And because of my engineering

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background, we would work with large datasets.

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We will be querying them on the command line, that sort of thing.

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So it felt natural to move into bioinformatics, which is the querying

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of gigantic datasets, trying to understand

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what might cause a particular disease or a complex phenotype like that.

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So I did my Masters in Bioscience Technology 30,

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and then I went back and did a PhD

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to try and understand the actual

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menarche, the biology behind this big data that I was looking at on the screen.

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So knock on wood, St Andrew's, I did my,

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my PHC of the School of Medicine there

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that was in neurodevelopmental disease and disorder.

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So was the toxic

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introduction to the biological sciences.

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And after I did my postdoc, so I went to Harvard postdoc

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that was built on my research at St Andrew's

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and I wrote a lot of research there published and I had the fortune

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and the honor to, to confirm and name a human gene.

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So that was good.

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I made the step into Harvard.

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Then we did a lot of vaccine research,

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particularly in Zika virus at the time this was a it was

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it was causing great alarm in the sort of states of the US.

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We got quite a large funding budget, but

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and then fast forward to 2018 and because I started my Ph.D.

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later in life,

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other things where outside of my work were coming to the fore,

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do we want set of family in the US, we want to move back to site water, etc.

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And I just felt I could have moved into

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as a scientist, into maybe a pharmaceutical or continue in academia.

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But I realized that

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nobody wants to be a 50 year old postdoc at the lab bench.

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I suppose in that I reached

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it's quite a flat structure, the academic sciences.

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I thought you go on, you become pi, you run your own lab, etc.

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But I figured at the time, in order to have those conversations,

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particularly what's going to stay in Boston

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and bring me up to the next level,

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I needed to be able to understand the business of biotechnology.

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You turn a corner, every corner you turn in Boston,

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you bump into a post office, Professor owns a new startup.

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It's a place person with that entrepreneurial spirit,

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and I wants to be on a level playing field with them.

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I wanted to understand business and to be honest at the time, as scientists,

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I didn't know the difference through the cultural statement

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and the balance sheet, nor did I have to really.

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But moving back to two words inside of the water,

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I decided to move into the research analyst position,

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which is a wonderful antibody coming out of the lab.

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Any scientist who wants to get a handle on business, I

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wholeheartedly recommend and move it to the cell sites.

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So coming out of the lab, I

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my natural

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specialty would have been in biotech, it would have been in gene editing,

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cell therapy, personalized medicine, that kind of thing.

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So I got to cover these public companies.

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Right. Research. I'm going to

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meet the CEO, meet the buy side, meet the hedge funds.

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I was I was in the middle.

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I was learning all along how to understand a business,

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how to value, how to forecast

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its terms, etc..

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So it was a wonderful baptism of fire.

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I learned a hell of a lot on the cell sites

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and done a move to the buy side like research

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of $50 million assets under management.

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I was a portfolio manager there and you get to understand risk analysis.

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It's a slightly different skill set than what you have to sell.

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So it's risk involved analysis, portfolio construction,

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regulatory compliance, all those kinds of things.

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You need to get a better handle.

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So I did, but before I moved to AstraZeneca,

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where I was doing a lot of business development out intelligence and a

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slightly different to the

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copies that were discussed today,

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what at the time I was doing

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my MBA as well, I felt that

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my the return of my investment capital, i.e.

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my time as a very poor one and you find this in private equity,

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you find my site and indeed you'll find it in big pharma M&A.

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You could look at 100 or 200 TLC might pull the trigger and warned.

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It's a lot of forecasting, a lot of legwork there.

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And I just felt that ROI as you get older, your most

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precious asset is of course your time

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and if you're getting a very poor or a Y and that's something needs to change.

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Like I said, I was doing my MBA

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and we were introduced.

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The concept of searching

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and at the time I thought it was very interesting intellectual curiosity.

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I put it back up on the shelf and went back to my day job.

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But the more and more I ran up against these problems of okay,

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this is report or aligned, the more I came back

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and took it off the shelf and said, What would this look like?

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What would you search funds for?

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Somebody like me mid-career looked like you specialize in health care.

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I might back myself into a cul de sac here by not remaining agnostic,

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by not keeping that playing field as broad as possible.

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And the universe of companies that I can be looking at.

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So come January of this

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year, I really started to

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to look under all the rocks to have as many informative interviews

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with as many people in the ecosystem as I possibly could.

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So that was everything from searches to debt advisory

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to regulatory compliance, legal to anybody.

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And if somebody would pick up the phone to me, I must have had 250 calls

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over that time period

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just trying to get a handle.

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Yeah.

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Health care focused traditional search ones is doable,

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and a lot of the feedback I got was absolutely go for your

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your mid-career specialism really would help differentiate

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you from a lot of the younger 30 year

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old MBA grads or non MBA

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graduates out there who

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who might spent three months trying to understand what a great sector

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looks like, what a great company within that sector looks like, etc., etc..

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And my knowledge of health care,

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not just as a scientist, but also in the corporate finance side of things,

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reading led me to believe that this is a very defensive sector.

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Regardless of where we are in the broader macroeconomic cycle,

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people like investing in health care because fundamentally

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we all need it at some point and it's not going to go away.

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So that brought me up to February, March right.

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Okay.

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Let's really go through this insert which gets to investors and

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that went very well.

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April, May, I'd say I was I was all wrapped up

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my fundraising very successfully.

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We were in the fortunate position of being oversubscribed.

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And I have at the moment a fantastic investor base,

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a great cap table that has a very mixed and I would say balanced

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expertise behind its high net worth individuals, institutional funds.

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The funds, family offices, some health care investors in there,

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some tax experts, etc..

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So we got to a great cap table.

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And I have a mandates starting from last month

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when I really kicked off the search.

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We have a mandate for two years to go out and find a great health care company.

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Fabulous. What a great journey.

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And so much to unpack from that.

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Robert, if you if you'll permit me.

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So just

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something you said there about making the transition

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from the bench to financial analytics and corporate development

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and how you would recommend that to any Ph.D.

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who has has been in the scientific research field,

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Could you elaborate on why why that strong

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recommendation?

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I think so.

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Coming from the lab,

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it can be a very lonely venture

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that has certainly lent itself to what I'm doing right now.

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Commercial from the lab.

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You are a master of your own domain.

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You design your experiments

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with the help, hopefully, of your peers and your supervisor,

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but ultimately it's up to you to really do the digging into the previous literature

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that's being produced on your particular biological question.

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So your master, your own domain, you plan your own experiments,

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they fail white, they fail, reiterate, refine, improve.

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So you're no stranger to

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to be your own guiding light

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when it you then move into to maybe if you're trying

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to take that next step in your career, maybe it's going to be Etta.

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Maybe not.

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Maybe it's going to be to broader finance.

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You usually land in a larger

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corporate development situation where you have niche or where you have,

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you know,

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strategic plan on how to develop you

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as a character and you and your CV, etc..

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So making that move for me at least,

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I really looked out in landing in equity research

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because again, as an analyst, you, you perform your research,

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you value the copy and then you stick a buy, sell or neutral on the front label.

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And then you go out, you meet the hedge funds

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and you go out and meet to buy some discourse and they challenge

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your thesis, just like scientists would challenge your thesis.

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When you produce research, these other people say, Well, I've spotted

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a hold here.

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What you're thinking here, you need to produce a defensible

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thesis.

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And so that really lends itself,

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I think, to to to what I'm doing right now.

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And then third of all,

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as a scientist, you're constantly living on the edge of ignorance.

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You're hoping that the next experiment

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is going to either refute or prove your thesis.

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And I like to think the searchers in a similar position.

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You don't know where the next conversation is going to lead.

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You don't know where the next lead is going to,

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whether it's going to really open that door or not.

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And you really got to be comfortable ambiguity and you know,

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you have to be comfortable in your own skin with having your nose

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pressed hard against the wall of ignorance.

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I love that.

00:15:18:31 - 00:15:20:03
So many great analogies.

00:15:20:03 - 00:15:24:24
And as you say, those life skills learned in that walk

00:15:24:26 - 00:15:28:16
that that being comfortable with uncertainty, that willingness

00:15:28:16 - 00:15:31:22
to live on the edge of ignorance, I think

00:15:31:25 - 00:15:35:04
is so, so many useful

00:15:35:06 - 00:15:37:05
traits and

00:15:37:05 - 00:15:41:09
skills that come from that that can be applied to search particularly.

00:15:41:09 - 00:15:42:24
And I'm going to I'm putting out a book of this.

00:15:42:24 - 00:15:47:30
But but I'd love to just have a little thought experiment on this. This

00:15:47:33 - 00:15:51:33
having third party peer review and challenge your thesis,

00:15:52:02 - 00:15:55:15
is that something specifically that was forefront of your mind

00:15:55:15 - 00:15:57:28
or in your mind influencing your decision between going

00:15:57:28 - 00:16:00:06
the self-funded route and the traditional route,

00:16:00:06 - 00:16:03:29
having a kind of panel of people that would, you know,

00:16:03:31 - 00:16:06:01
hold your feet to the fire, if you will.

00:16:06:01 - 00:16:08:15
In a similar vein.

00:16:08:15 - 00:16:11:26
I don't think was the guiding principle, but it was certainly

00:16:11:29 - 00:16:15:18
something that I was more than capable and comfortable

00:16:15:18 - 00:16:20:30
with taking on was was that challenge from your peers, from your investors?

00:16:20:33 - 00:16:24:29
The probably the more guiding principle of me

00:16:24:29 - 00:16:27:29
going to the traditional as opposed to self-funded

00:16:28:04 - 00:16:32:08
route was I had

00:16:32:10 - 00:16:34:12
on the sell side and the buy side.

00:16:34:12 - 00:16:37:13
I had been quite comfortable in valuing companies and looking at them

00:16:37:13 - 00:16:40:13
and really understanding the business model and making them

00:16:40:13 - 00:16:44:32
what makes them tick and forecasting growth, etc..

00:16:45:01 - 00:16:47:03
What I didn't have experience

00:16:47:03 - 00:16:50:30
in was acquiring a small company.

00:16:50:33 - 00:16:53:26
I had helped acquire very large companies.

00:16:53:26 - 00:16:57:03
I had valued very large companies, is more than comfortable

00:16:57:06 - 00:17:02:13
sitting at the C-suite with $100 billion CEO,

00:17:02:15 - 00:17:05:15
$300 billion market cap CEO.

00:17:05:17 - 00:17:06:31
That was the problem at all.

00:17:06:31 - 00:17:10:23
The problem was, like I said, you're

00:17:10:26 - 00:17:13:29
trying to acquire a small company that I've never done before.

00:17:13:29 - 00:17:15:24
I knew

00:17:15:24 - 00:17:18:24
and like I said to my investors when I was fundraising,

00:17:18:28 - 00:17:21:28
I don't think I could have done this at 30 years of age

00:17:21:29 - 00:17:25:10
because I've thrown you absolutely everything about everything.

00:17:25:12 - 00:17:29:26
And maybe I didn't have that emotional intelligence that I do now

00:17:29:28 - 00:17:34:25
that comes with age, that you have emotions, halogens,

00:17:34:28 - 00:17:37:14
sufficient enough to put your hand up and say,

00:17:37:14 - 00:17:41:25
I don't know what the hell I'm doing here and somebody please help me.

00:17:41:28 - 00:17:43:11
And already a lot

00:17:43:11 - 00:17:48:15
of reading leaned into that in that cup table.

00:17:48:18 - 00:17:51:03
And that's thanks to the traditional search

00:17:51:03 - 00:17:54:18
and structure that they can lean into that and say,

00:17:54:20 - 00:17:56:03
listen, they're going to need some help here.

00:17:56:03 - 00:17:57:27
How do you how do you structure this?

00:17:57:27 - 00:17:58:32
How do you reach out?

00:17:58:32 - 00:18:00:06
How do you develop the sales in?

00:18:00:06 - 00:18:04:09
How do you So I hopefully I haven't even begun

00:18:04:09 - 00:18:08:06
to to pester them with

00:18:08:08 - 00:18:10:07
what I see is completely inane questions.

00:18:10:07 - 00:18:13:08
But like I said, I'm more comfortable in my own skin.

00:18:13:10 - 00:18:15:12
Have to say this is where I need help.

00:18:15:12 - 00:18:19:04
You know, the old start all the dash only the stronger when to ask for help.

00:18:19:11 - 00:18:24:05
And and the purpose of traditional search is to encourage

00:18:24:05 - 00:18:28:23
that right is to have a panel of people that have walked this path

00:18:28:26 - 00:18:31:32
that are on your side to give you guidance where you need it,

00:18:32:01 - 00:18:34:33
that that's one of the real reasons why

00:18:34:33 - 00:18:41:04
when we choose a traditional path route, we we have quite a lot of comfort

00:18:41:06 - 00:18:43:08
giving up equity because we're giving it up to people

00:18:43:08 - 00:18:46:32
that are actually going to help us achieve more than we could on our own.

00:18:47:01 - 00:18:47:21
Absolutely.

00:18:47:21 - 00:18:51:07
And I use that as a segue way into the point about where

00:18:51:07 - 00:18:55:20
it's going solo work Scope partners in a traditional search, and

00:18:55:23 - 00:18:58:06
I would be more comfortable giving up equity.

00:18:58:06 - 00:19:02:07
This was never and never will be about

00:19:02:09 - 00:19:06:09
equity or second homework on that front.

00:19:06:13 - 00:19:07:11
Care will always come.

00:19:07:11 - 00:19:10:07
You'll always be able to make money in this world.

00:19:10:07 - 00:19:12:26
What you enjoy that you're in it with somebody else.

00:19:12:26 - 00:19:17:31
I would I would advise and many people have come to be graduates etc.

00:19:18:05 - 00:19:21:00
are doing their MBAs by own interests at the moment

00:19:21:00 - 00:19:23:21
who reach out to should go sell their apartments.

00:19:23:21 - 00:19:27:14
If there is somebody in your life that you've bought your privacy

00:19:27:17 - 00:19:31:17
that is also interested, that is also a thought sees is a career.

00:19:31:20 - 00:19:35:25
Maybe an ops guy and finance girl or whoever it is,

00:19:35:28 - 00:19:38:27
if you can bring that combination together.

00:19:38:27 - 00:19:42:23
Absolutely. 110% golfers.

00:19:42:25 - 00:19:44:32
Now, if you're in a position and you want to go partner, it's pretty

00:19:44:32 - 00:19:46:28
you find yourself looking for that of a person.

00:19:46:28 - 00:19:47:24
That's a completely

00:19:47:24 - 00:19:51:21
different kettle of fish and it's not something I would recommend.

00:19:51:23 - 00:19:53:27
No, exactly.

00:19:53:27 - 00:19:59:04
I think I'm seeing of the traditional search fund investors and in Europe,

00:19:59:04 - 00:20:06:05
a sort of preference for a joint searching team rather than solo.

00:20:06:08 - 00:20:08:10
But they would

00:20:08:10 - 00:20:10:14
perhaps even more prefer

00:20:10:14 - 00:20:14:17
a competent, experienced sector relevant solo searcher

00:20:14:20 - 00:20:18:28
over a cobbled together team

00:20:18:28 - 00:20:24:02
that have no shared history or difficult to identify complementing skillset.

00:20:24:02 - 00:20:28:08
Some get just just that hit by a bus scenario.

00:20:28:11 - 00:20:33:20
You know, contingency plan isn't really enough to justify one over the other.

00:20:33:20 - 00:20:40:11
I mean, I think you're in a very unique position with your unique background

00:20:40:14 - 00:20:44:10
and so well aligned and entrenched with your thesis

00:20:44:12 - 00:20:47:20
that it's a bit of a no brainer to to back

00:20:47:23 - 00:20:50:28
your folks in, in that sense because, you know,

00:20:50:29 - 00:20:54:33
you've spent your career preparing for this moment, it would seem, you know,

00:20:55:02 - 00:20:59:04
perhaps not consciously, but it certainly feels apropos.

00:20:59:06 - 00:20:59:31
So, yes,

00:20:59:31 - 00:21:03:29
very much the kind of antithesis of

00:21:03:31 - 00:21:08:25
a start up esque team coming out of LBC,

00:21:08:28 - 00:21:11:28
putting, you know,

00:21:11:32 - 00:21:14:32
combining their efforts to go and put their best foot forward,

00:21:15:01 - 00:21:18:19
but having no real experience in the space.

00:21:18:21 - 00:21:20:26
Can I just go back a little bit something else

00:21:20:26 - 00:21:25:29
you said around return on investment and how you reached a point where you were

00:21:25:32 - 00:21:30:14
keen to make sure that your return on time being your biggest investment

00:21:30:17 - 00:21:33:15
was significant.

00:21:33:15 - 00:21:38:00
Could you quantify I mean, I don't want to go basic can speak

00:21:38:00 - 00:21:42:33
to has Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but like is it financial away?

00:21:42:33 - 00:21:44:28
Is it intellectual ROI?

00:21:44:28 - 00:21:47:32
Is it self-actualization ROI?

00:21:47:33 - 00:21:50:19
Why did it.

00:21:50:19 - 00:21:56:09
If it's

00:21:56:11 - 00:21:58:00
too good question.

00:21:58:00 - 00:22:03:02
And it's something that only really comes of experience and time

00:22:03:05 - 00:22:05:04
and how your

00:22:05:04 - 00:22:08:28
requirements changes rolled, you know,

00:22:08:31 - 00:22:12:31
I have a five year old son and it is a little clichéd

00:22:12:31 - 00:22:15:31
and try to say that things do change.

00:22:16:03 - 00:22:17:03
Things do change.

00:22:17:03 - 00:22:21:11
The moment you see that other person who's reliant on you

00:22:21:14 - 00:22:24:08
in so many ways to guide them, to provide

00:22:24:08 - 00:22:28:00
for them, to provide security for them, etc.,

00:22:28:03 - 00:22:30:27
but also

00:22:30:27 - 00:22:33:00
to to represent us

00:22:33:00 - 00:22:36:21
as a symbol of what they can do in their lives as well.

00:22:36:23 - 00:22:41:01
A lot of people who go and do an MBA,

00:22:41:03 - 00:22:44:25
whether they want to admit it or not, are primarily spending that 80

00:22:44:25 - 00:22:47:25
or 90 or 100 or whatever it is thousand

00:22:47:32 - 00:22:50:22
on a network, you will pick up skills.

00:22:50:22 - 00:22:55:29
You will obviously pick up quantifiable and

00:22:55:32 - 00:22:57:13
quantitative skills.

00:22:57:13 - 00:23:00:08
Obviously that wasn't attained, but

00:23:00:11 - 00:23:02:11
a lot of time you're acquiring a network.

00:23:02:11 - 00:23:09:06
And when I did the MBA at Cambridge, it was the required network.

00:23:09:06 - 00:23:12:23
I had already had a sizable network at that stage,

00:23:12:23 - 00:23:18:01
both in academia and in corporate finance, etc., But

00:23:18:03 - 00:23:21:23
it was probably to test myself to see if I could do it.

00:23:21:26 - 00:23:25:23
And as well as that, if, if, if I could formalize the learnings

00:23:25:23 - 00:23:28:05
that I had acquired since leaving academia

00:23:28:05 - 00:23:31:15
in corporate finance and just formalize that,

00:23:31:18 - 00:23:35:23
but also just to represent to to to my son and to my my children

00:23:35:23 - 00:23:39:29
and to anybody from a behind me that, yeah, you can do this, you can make

00:23:39:29 - 00:23:45:00
the move out of science, out of academia, into them, into an MBA and beyond.

00:23:45:03 - 00:23:46:06
It's there.

00:23:46:06 - 00:23:49:17
It's all there in the ether for you to pick out, clock out

00:23:49:20 - 00:23:53:30
and go, just go for it. And

00:23:53:33 - 00:23:56:33
so long winded way of answer your question.

00:23:57:00 - 00:23:58:22
It was it was

00:23:58:22 - 00:24:01:21
it was an aura y

00:24:01:21 - 00:24:05:20
on my time, but also just to demonstrate what could be done.

00:24:05:24 - 00:24:08:33
And also on top of that, it was

00:24:09:02 - 00:24:11:32
just to show to myself, you know,

00:24:11:32 - 00:24:17:08
as I touched on at the very, very start, the conversation I started as an engineer.

00:24:17:08 - 00:24:19:07
I moved to academia, scientists.

00:24:19:07 - 00:24:22:07
They came out the other side of finance, and here I am,

00:24:22:07 - 00:24:25:20
hopefully pursuing a path to

00:24:25:23 - 00:24:28:05
see of of of running a company.

00:24:28:05 - 00:24:31:13
And that takes adaptability.

00:24:31:16 - 00:24:36:16
It takes like, like we discussed comforting your old skin with ignorance.

00:24:36:18 - 00:24:41:24
And it's that old Darwinism

00:24:41:27 - 00:24:43:19
truism of prices

00:24:43:19 - 00:24:46:19
and go to the quickest, the faster, the strongest to the most adaptable.

00:24:46:19 - 00:24:49:30
And particularly in this world of AI,

00:24:49:33 - 00:24:52:22
if you don't anticipate having true different careers

00:24:52:22 - 00:24:58:09
or teaching your kids that they can anticipate that, then

00:24:58:12 - 00:25:01:06
you probably need to take risk.

00:25:01:06 - 00:25:02:21
So you got to remain adaptable.

00:25:02:21 - 00:25:06:23
And fortunately so far it's its management.

00:25:06:23 - 00:25:10:10
My curiosity, it tends to point well

00:25:10:13 - 00:25:10:31
that stuff.

00:25:10:31 - 00:25:12:19
I think I found a kindred spirit here,

00:25:12:19 - 00:25:16:26
a father of a five year old boy that's motivated by legacy

00:25:16:26 - 00:25:20:31
and stepping outside of his comfort zone to achieve something great.

00:25:20:31 - 00:25:23:31
And yes, I think

00:25:23:31 - 00:25:26:15
it is a consequence of age and we are motivated

00:25:26:15 - 00:25:29:15
differently as we reach our mid-forties than we are in our mid-twenties.

00:25:29:22 - 00:25:32:22
And money, isn't it? It's something more.

00:25:32:25 - 00:25:35:25
And I totally, totally support your your thesis there.

00:25:35:31 - 00:25:37:12
So on that topic.

00:25:37:12 - 00:25:40:22
Re thesis that's going to show folks partners

00:25:40:22 - 00:25:43:22
thesis around specifically acquiring in health care.

00:25:43:23 - 00:25:47:10
Now I'm trying not to bring my own ideology and prejudice

00:25:47:10 - 00:25:50:20
as an angel investor to this because I realize

00:25:50:20 - 00:25:53:15
you're investing in businesses that are far more mature.

00:25:53:15 - 00:25:56:30
But the maturity and sort of self-sufficiency existential

00:25:56:33 - 00:26:03:15
Lee of these businesses in health care, it's always felt to me that there's this

00:26:03:17 - 00:26:07:32
this initial journey cash burning journey

00:26:07:32 - 00:26:12:00
in health care companies where they have to get to a point of validation.

00:26:12:03 - 00:26:14:05
And then there's sort of the bit you hear

00:26:14:05 - 00:26:17:24
about later where they've really made it and they've become huge corporations

00:26:17:24 - 00:26:21:31
that scaled up to serve, you know, a huge market

00:26:22:00 - 00:26:25:18
and have either been acquired or whatever.

00:26:25:21 - 00:26:30:00
The bit that we don't get to hear a lot about is that that in the middle

00:26:30:03 - 00:26:32:33
of a health care company that has made it

00:26:32:33 - 00:26:36:18
validated, reached a point of

00:26:36:20 - 00:26:41:01
of maturity but still got a lot more to give.

00:26:41:03 - 00:26:42:10
Am I right in thinking that

00:26:42:10 - 00:26:45:21
that is the space or the stage

00:26:45:23 - 00:26:49:22
that particularly appeals or are you going

00:26:49:29 - 00:26:53:19
later stage and hence why you've chosen

00:26:53:21 - 00:26:55:28
the traditional route where you're thinking, actually

00:26:55:28 - 00:27:00:29
I want like pre IPO businesses here.

00:27:00:32 - 00:27:03:09
As somebody who's

00:27:03:09 - 00:27:06:04
not just worked

00:27:06:04 - 00:27:08:33
within academia and

00:27:08:33 - 00:27:13:13
tried their best to understand basic translational science

00:27:13:16 - 00:27:18:01
to somebody who's moved to the cell sites covering very, very early biotechs,

00:27:18:01 - 00:27:22:24
which are essentially an idea with some IP,

00:27:22:27 - 00:27:29:02
the side of it and a lot of wishes and dreams

00:27:29:04 - 00:27:33:14
layered on top to somebody who's actively acquired

00:27:33:14 - 00:27:37:13
public equities in large companies like JNJ versus Big Pharma.

00:27:37:19 - 00:27:39:00
That you

00:27:39:00 - 00:27:42:33
I'd like to think I can appreciate that wide range

00:27:43:02 - 00:27:48:07
of of company type business model and what makes them tick.

00:27:48:07 - 00:27:52:28
So different companies at different stages of their growth

00:27:52:31 - 00:27:57:06
phase and lifecycle will exhibits

00:27:57:09 - 00:28:01:23
attractive traits, let's say, and others not so attractive.

00:28:01:23 - 00:28:05:08
So when you look at a very early biotech, I have to stop myself

00:28:05:08 - 00:28:09:02
and stop myself from the risk to, no, Rob, that's not for you.

00:28:09:07 - 00:28:12:33
It's very, very interesting. At an intellectual level,

00:28:13:02 - 00:28:16:07
the science is very curious, if not proven.

00:28:16:07 - 00:28:20:06
But this is the hat that you're wearing today.

00:28:20:11 - 00:28:24:20
The hat that you're wearing today is that you representing yourself in

00:28:24:20 - 00:28:29:27
your vest is looking at free cash flow, generative, tried and tested,

00:28:29:30 - 00:28:34:33
proven companies that hopefully are part of a

00:28:35:02 - 00:28:40:18
that have a strong tailwinds not just for that corporate but also for the industry.

00:28:40:18 - 00:28:42:25
So what does that look like?

00:28:42:25 - 00:28:45:06
Health care is a very, very broad label

00:28:45:06 - 00:28:49:32
and not only a question to house

00:28:50:00 - 00:28:53:29
brokers and investors alike is what some sectors are attractive.

00:28:53:29 - 00:28:56:29
And of course there's those classic criteria

00:28:56:30 - 00:29:00:24
search funds where you want a fragmented customer base.

00:29:00:26 - 00:29:04:24
I know cutbacks, CapEx.

00:29:04:27 - 00:29:06:32
Regular recurring revenue.

00:29:06:32 - 00:29:09:32
Yeah, but recurring revenues help.

00:29:10:02 - 00:29:13:27
But the great thing about health care is that it also introduces things like

00:29:13:27 - 00:29:17:33
regulatory moats and compliance laws that are very, very difficult to get over.

00:29:17:33 - 00:29:22:02
And once you have that is a most very, very protective thing.

00:29:22:05 - 00:29:25:32
And also I'm looking for companies that

00:29:26:00 - 00:29:28:13
perhaps their costs constitutes a very, very,

00:29:28:13 - 00:29:31:33
very low percentage of the overall product or service.

00:29:32:02 - 00:29:35:11
You would like that classic trace.

00:29:35:14 - 00:29:38:28
What's the book The Outsiders will Turn like represents.

00:29:38:28 - 00:29:42:12
It's some of the greatest properties left by the greatest

00:29:42:12 - 00:29:46:10
CEOs were always those companies that produce very, very small component

00:29:46:10 - 00:29:51:32
like the screws on a Boeing air wing or whatever it is that transforms this world.

00:29:51:32 - 00:29:55:31
So I want to try to I'm

00:29:55:33 - 00:30:00:02
cognizant of the fact that

00:30:00:05 - 00:30:02:26
I have to be very careful about the tough cookie down document

00:30:02:26 - 00:30:06:00
and not to go, because when I did make that transition, actually when I made

00:30:06:00 - 00:30:09:05
that transition from academia into the corporate finance world,

00:30:09:08 - 00:30:13:20
I was very guilty of being completely enamored by the science,

00:30:13:23 - 00:30:16:23
of looking at a gene therapy or a gene editing company and

00:30:16:26 - 00:30:20:01
just being bowled over as a geneticist looking at what is possible

00:30:20:01 - 00:30:22:27
in curing genetic disease.

00:30:22:30 - 00:30:23:32
But of course you

00:30:23:32 - 00:30:26:25
didn't translate it to making a good copy.

00:30:26:25 - 00:30:29:31
You know, the graveyard biotech's littered

00:30:29:31 - 00:30:34:00
with the bones of great ideas and great science.

00:30:34:03 - 00:30:34:18
Yeah.

00:30:34:18 - 00:30:37:09
And of course, we're going through a bit of a paradigm shift now.

00:30:37:09 - 00:30:38:32
Again,

00:30:38:32 - 00:30:40:18
more widely and generally in technology.

00:30:40:18 - 00:30:45:13
But, you know, we can't be talking about the future of health care without talking

00:30:45:13 - 00:30:48:05
about artificial intelligence and how that's going to be

00:30:48:05 - 00:30:52:09
a big disruptor, but also a big catalyst for the different

00:30:52:12 - 00:30:55:21
subsets of that broad church.

00:30:55:24 - 00:30:58:21
You know, you're clearly hugely intelligent.

00:30:58:21 - 00:31:03:08
You must have thought, how can I either bring it to this project

00:31:03:11 - 00:31:06:21
post acquisition or what do I need to be aware of

00:31:06:27 - 00:31:10:27
as I headwinds and tailwinds in the market that I'm acquiring in?

00:31:10:30 - 00:31:13:02
Did you speak a bit more to that?

00:31:13:05 - 00:31:13:15
yeah.

00:31:13:15 - 00:31:18:19
It's formed, I'd say the third leg of the

00:31:18:21 - 00:31:22:04
initial due diligence tool

00:31:22:07 - 00:31:25:03
that I asked my myself and my interest to pursue.

00:31:25:03 - 00:31:26:32
The first is obviously okay.

00:31:26:32 - 00:31:28:16
Referring revenue.

00:31:28:16 - 00:31:31:12
Is this is this a B2B company

00:31:31:12 - 00:31:35:04
or B to C inhibits B to C, How do we convert that

00:31:35:04 - 00:31:39:18
into a more subscription or revenue recurring based model?

00:31:39:20 - 00:31:43:01
The second is where does the growth good from?

00:31:43:04 - 00:31:44:29
It's well and good identifying

00:31:44:29 - 00:31:47:29
a company now, but you don't want a melting ice cube

00:31:48:00 - 00:31:50:16
of an industry that's

00:31:50:16 - 00:31:52:27
you very quickly find yourself stranded on.

00:31:52:27 - 00:31:57:33
And the third is, is this how at I proof is this

00:31:58:02 - 00:32:00:29
company an industry?

00:32:00:29 - 00:32:03:04
So as recently

00:32:03:04 - 00:32:06:26
as four years ago or even less, there were people in the States

00:32:06:26 - 00:32:10:26
who acquiring electronic health records companies

00:32:10:29 - 00:32:13:29
within the the cell phone that's stable

00:32:13:29 - 00:32:18:02
and I mean they're great success stories

00:32:18:05 - 00:32:19:11
anything

00:32:19:11 - 00:32:22:03
the low hanging fruit of this world's

00:32:22:03 - 00:32:25:13
I the sector just like any other sector is

00:32:25:16 - 00:32:28:15
what can be automated what is data rich

00:32:28:15 - 00:32:31:15
that could be very quickly automate its

00:32:31:16 - 00:32:35:08
electronic health records is want

00:32:35:10 - 00:32:40:05
is it few orders that I've seen pop up it sells search rules in the past

00:32:40:05 - 00:32:44:20
but just right now you wouldn't go near not because they're not great companies

00:32:44:20 - 00:32:48:15
now, but because even in things like

00:32:48:18 - 00:32:51:09
so for example, would you

00:32:51:09 - 00:32:54:31
when you had a position in the US,

00:32:55:00 - 00:32:58:22
they'll say, okay, it is injection, but this thing is digital, it

00:32:58:27 - 00:33:00:17
it and everything is coded

00:33:00:17 - 00:33:04:01
from the bandage to the sterilized injection, you name it.

00:33:04:01 - 00:33:07:25
So everything is code is Coltrane's request is right.

00:33:07:28 - 00:33:08:28
I beg your pardon?

00:33:08:28 - 00:33:10:23
For insurance and accounting purposes? Largely.

00:33:10:23 - 00:33:14:00
100%. Exactly. They were a great business.

00:33:14:02 - 00:33:15:31
They are now

00:33:16:00 - 00:33:16:20
diamond tools.

00:33:16:20 - 00:33:21:23
Endoscope is are being replaced by anyway start ups.

00:33:21:25 - 00:33:24:21
Why? Because it's just a basic lookup.

00:33:24:21 - 00:33:27:21
It's a basic lookup that just needs to be confirmed.

00:33:27:23 - 00:33:30:30
And even in my old industry of equity research, I lost,

00:33:30:33 - 00:33:33:22
like I said at the start, that it's a wonderful place

00:33:33:22 - 00:33:35:15
to find yourself move from academia

00:33:35:15 - 00:33:37:09
if you want that introduction to corporate finance.

00:33:37:09 - 00:33:41:18
But that's going to be under threat now as well. Why?

00:33:41:21 - 00:33:45:20
Because you have you have data,

00:33:45:25 - 00:33:48:22
you have big, big data that you can now crunch

00:33:48:22 - 00:33:52:06
using airlines, using airline tools

00:33:52:09 - 00:33:56:23
in order to get to a price for an equity

00:33:56:26 - 00:33:59:25
that you can defend.

00:33:59:25 - 00:34:03:16
So like I said, it's the third leg of the stool

00:34:03:16 - 00:34:09:14
that I look at, how I prove is this this this industry and

00:34:09:16 - 00:34:12:11
I to be honest, so far in my search,

00:34:12:11 - 00:34:16:07
it's really a mountain of stuff where my search is

00:34:16:10 - 00:34:19:10
most definitely being a health rather than a hindrance.

00:34:19:15 - 00:34:22:15
But a house, it has shaped the type of company.

00:34:22:22 - 00:34:25:09
Useful to have some red lines that you can use for triaging

00:34:25:09 - 00:34:27:13
and sort of thinning the herd.

00:34:27:13 - 00:34:30:01
I think having these yardsticks

00:34:30:01 - 00:34:33:33
to put up against your deals is is very sensible.

00:34:34:02 - 00:34:39:18
So just on the search experience, both the fundraise

00:34:39:19 - 00:34:43:07
and the early sort of sourcing stage that you're going through.

00:34:43:07 - 00:34:46:20
Now, just to analogize back to something earlier that you said

00:34:46:20 - 00:34:49:21
about your kind of experience on the bench about sort of plan

00:34:49:24 - 00:34:52:25
fail, iterate as a cycle

00:34:52:25 - 00:34:55:25
and as a as a resilience,

00:34:55:31 - 00:34:57:24
How have you had to apply that, you know,

00:34:57:24 - 00:35:01:13
all of the punches in the face been so far on this journey?

00:35:01:16 - 00:35:03:10
I'm sure there'll be more. We all face them.

00:35:03:10 - 00:35:09:24
It's rife, but could you speak to any and maybe some lessons for listeners?

00:35:09:26 - 00:35:10:17
Yeah,

00:35:10:17 - 00:35:14:05
I'm a firm believer the success in this life is correlated

00:35:14:05 - 00:35:19:14
with your ability to excuse my language, get out a spoon and itches.

00:35:19:17 - 00:35:24:07
And by that I mean not too much working with or for jerks.

00:35:24:15 - 00:35:26:18
You should never do that.

00:35:26:18 - 00:35:29:29
It's being able to handle rejection

00:35:29:32 - 00:35:32:31
again and again and again.

00:35:32:31 - 00:35:35:28
Let's face it, there's no shortage in this world of very, very smart people.

00:35:35:28 - 00:35:36:22
There's no shortage

00:35:36:22 - 00:35:40:04
in this world of people who will outwork you, particularly with the dawn of the AI,

00:35:40:08 - 00:35:45:30
which has been a great learning fields for for the hard workers in this world. But

00:35:45:33 - 00:35:49:04
you just what would differentiate you from what is the ability

00:35:49:04 - 00:35:51:00
to just take rejection on the chin

00:35:51:00 - 00:35:53:11
and just go back at it again and again and again.

00:35:53:11 - 00:35:58:01
And like I said, my preference scientists certainly help you plan that.

00:35:58:04 - 00:36:00:16
I remember the first year of my Ph.D.

00:36:00:16 - 00:36:03:16
it took me eight months just to get the experiment to work.

00:36:03:20 - 00:36:05:09
Just any scientist listen to this.

00:36:05:09 - 00:36:06:19
Were not there had an agreement.

00:36:06:19 - 00:36:09:21
Sometimes you need to get the assay before you gives you positive

00:36:09:21 - 00:36:15:28
or negative results just to get the experiment to work itself, not to create. Once

00:36:15:31 - 00:36:17:31
I've just bashed my head every day

00:36:17:31 - 00:36:21:09
going into the lab for 12 hours a day just trying to get this work.

00:36:21:12 - 00:36:24:32
So for me to be rejected by an investor or

00:36:25:00 - 00:36:29:08
my thesis to be rejected by an investor,

00:36:29:10 - 00:36:33:04
okay, next, keep going, reiterate, do better.

00:36:33:04 - 00:36:36:04
And my advice to people reaching out

00:36:36:10 - 00:36:40:00
those are on how to fundraise is always okay.

00:36:40:00 - 00:36:42:28
It's a big universe of potential investors.

00:36:42:28 - 00:36:46:01
What you should do is book advised them into A, B and C book

00:36:46:04 - 00:36:48:30
and approach to C book at first.

00:36:48:30 - 00:36:51:16
Now, I'm not saying they would be bad investors.

00:36:51:16 - 00:36:53:16
They might be about fit for you.

00:36:53:16 - 00:36:59:05
So I'd reach out to Brazilian investors, for example, knowing that it's

00:36:59:10 - 00:37:03:05
probably unlikely giving and we didn't have an existing relationship

00:37:03:08 - 00:37:04:08
that they were going to vest me.

00:37:04:08 - 00:37:07:20
But still I get to put my TS and

00:37:07:23 - 00:37:09:24
I defer to you.

00:37:09:24 - 00:37:10:22
Well, I'm in your career.

00:37:10:22 - 00:37:13:01
The closer you get to pure sales.

00:37:13:01 - 00:37:14:23
And if you don't throw in the.

00:37:14:23 - 00:37:18:10
Reps in putting the reps and and actually if you and if you cut your

00:37:18:12 - 00:37:23:22
if you focus or hone your weapons, if you will, in that

00:37:23:25 - 00:37:27:22
lower priority list, by the time you get to your category

00:37:27:22 - 00:37:32:06
A's, you're on fire because you've you've done this, you know, 100 times.

00:37:32:06 - 00:37:33:05
But that point.

00:37:33:05 - 00:37:37:01
That my daughter trained came in

00:37:37:04 - 00:37:39:31
with us towards the end of the fundraise

00:37:39:31 - 00:37:43:08
and she could finish the anecdote for me.

00:37:43:08 - 00:37:44:17
So I can hear that anecdote.

00:37:44:17 - 00:37:47:16
For instance,

00:37:47:16 - 00:37:49:29
it's not it's not that it's scripted or anything like that,

00:37:49:29 - 00:37:53:16
but you intrinsically feel where you've hit the mark.

00:37:53:17 - 00:37:57:15
Where do you take the box, what's landed, what hasn't landed?

00:37:57:17 - 00:38:02:01
And yet you really, really ready by, like you said, by bites, by

00:38:02:03 - 00:38:06:20
somebody get to the top tier or those who you really want on the cap table.

00:38:06:22 - 00:38:07:22
You've You've

00:38:07:22 - 00:38:11:20
made every mistake because that's facing an expert,

00:38:11:23 - 00:38:16:13
in my eyes, at least in experience in any sector, is just that person who's made

00:38:16:13 - 00:38:20:24
all the mistakes that are possible within that particular niche.

00:38:20:27 - 00:38:23:17
Was that an Edison quote somewhere?

00:38:23:17 - 00:38:27:33
I don't know, but I'm happy to have it.

00:38:28:02 - 00:38:30:25
I'm happy to give it to Edison.

00:38:30:25 - 00:38:32:30
It wasn't something like I didn't make 200 mistakes.

00:38:32:30 - 00:38:37:19
So it was 200 experiments that proved that it wasn't the right way until I found

00:38:37:22 - 00:38:39:05
what was or something like that.

00:38:39:05 - 00:38:43:18
Anyway, again, I've done no justice to a quote, but Google it.

00:38:43:21 - 00:38:46:20
So the last couple of questions, if you don't mind.

00:38:46:20 - 00:38:49:10
What's your biggest challenge at the moment that you're facing?

00:38:49:10 - 00:38:54:04
Obviously, you're a couple of months into the search phase now, the sourcing phase.

00:38:54:07 - 00:38:57:23
So let's deal with that first and then if we fast for 12 months

00:38:57:25 - 00:39:01:27
midway through your search phase that you're permitted,

00:39:01:30 - 00:39:05:30
where would you like to be? What would you like to have achieved?

00:39:05:33 - 00:39:06:26
Yeah, I see The biggest

00:39:06:26 - 00:39:10:32
problem and I think it's a perennial whinge from most search

00:39:11:00 - 00:39:13:29
is is just trying to improve your broker a deal flow.

00:39:13:29 - 00:39:18:05
Yeah I did have obviously brokers

00:39:18:08 - 00:39:20:02
from my previous experiences

00:39:20:02 - 00:39:23:22
and my previous career, but like we said, it's

00:39:23:25 - 00:39:26:14
we're involved in the SMB space, the lower middle market space,

00:39:26:14 - 00:39:29:14
which is a completely different beast and a completely different

00:39:29:16 - 00:39:32:16
level of expectations and skills that you need there.

00:39:32:20 - 00:39:35:12
So at the moment

00:39:35:12 - 00:39:41:01
I'm working on building out my network, but in the brokers,

00:39:41:03 - 00:39:45:05
and not just London, but also obviously across the UK and Ireland as well,

00:39:45:08 - 00:39:48:23
and also tapping into the ecosystem that serves the elements

00:39:48:23 - 00:39:54:05
of the accountants, the tax structures, the legal, etc..

00:39:54:08 - 00:39:57:30
Anybody in that network that can facilitate an introduction

00:39:57:33 - 00:39:59:26
I'm leading into.

00:39:59:26 - 00:40:04:11
So looking at health care and there's probably five or six brokers

00:40:04:11 - 00:40:10:04
that are in that range that I'm looking out from 10 to 50 million enterprise value

00:40:10:07 - 00:40:10:21
that really

00:40:10:21 - 00:40:13:31
specialize on those health care deals.

00:40:13:33 - 00:40:16:23
And it being a very attractive sector

00:40:16:23 - 00:40:20:07
in not just private equity but also the public equities, you're

00:40:20:14 - 00:40:22:27
there's no shortage of potential buyers there.

00:40:22:27 - 00:40:26:13
So I try to dress up broken up.

00:40:26:13 - 00:40:28:33
I'm proven my proprietary approach.

00:40:28:33 - 00:40:30:02
And how do I do that?

00:40:30:02 - 00:40:34:16
I differentiate myself as best I can from private equity,

00:40:34:16 - 00:40:37:16
from strategics, from all different buyers.

00:40:37:20 - 00:40:40:20
And I do that by reading any into my background.

00:40:40:27 - 00:40:44:06
I'm a scientist for finance.

00:40:44:08 - 00:40:47:07
I have a wide universe of companies that I would like to acquire,

00:40:47:07 - 00:40:50:27
but I'd like to acquire yours and really

00:40:51:01 - 00:40:54:27
just underline and double click

00:40:54:30 - 00:40:56:02
with very, very importance.

00:40:56:02 - 00:41:00:07
The culture of the corporate such was very important to just build upon

00:41:00:07 - 00:41:05:14
what that the center or seller or vendor has has built.

00:41:05:17 - 00:41:09:04
But also it really helps if you speak the language.

00:41:09:07 - 00:41:12:19
So health care always made sense for me as a

00:41:12:21 - 00:41:15:09
sector to pursue because

00:41:15:09 - 00:41:20:08
I, I just found it very, very easy to to speak with potential sellers

00:41:20:10 - 00:41:21:06
because they like to see

00:41:21:06 - 00:41:24:24
that somebody has done their work and can speak their language.

00:41:24:24 - 00:41:30:28
And it would make sense for me to go into SAS sector,

00:41:30:31 - 00:41:31:31
try to acquire there

00:41:31:31 - 00:41:34:31
because I don't have the reps, they don't have the skillset there

00:41:35:00 - 00:41:38:21
to differentiate me from the guy who's been doing it for ten years.

00:41:38:24 - 00:41:38:33
Right?

00:41:38:33 - 00:41:40:13
Great discipline and great strategy.

00:41:40:13 - 00:41:44:30
Robert And the question to search stage, how many deals

00:41:44:30 - 00:41:50:00
would you like to have reviewed or killed or have under offer by then?

00:41:50:02 - 00:41:51:08
I do.

00:41:51:08 - 00:41:53:20
There's a very mixed commentary

00:41:53:20 - 00:41:56:20
on whether you should be doing

00:41:56:22 - 00:42:00:29
one outlier months or it's not.

00:42:00:32 - 00:42:03:32
It's not quantity versus quality.

00:42:04:03 - 00:42:05:09
In many ways.

00:42:05:09 - 00:42:08:33
I'd much rather be able to to reach out

00:42:08:33 - 00:42:15:19
to 100 highly qualified leads that

00:42:15:21 - 00:42:18:03
I really know and understand the business very well.

00:42:18:03 - 00:42:23:11
Rather than 1000 generic spray and phrase

00:42:23:14 - 00:42:24:18
mass campaign approach.

00:42:24:18 - 00:42:27:18
But to answer your question

00:42:27:19 - 00:42:31:15
this time next year, I certainly most important thing for me

00:42:31:15 - 00:42:34:15
would be to brought my network

00:42:34:21 - 00:42:37:20
that I could take any rate, no matter what happens,

00:42:37:20 - 00:42:42:05
improve my knowledge of various subsectors

00:42:42:08 - 00:42:45:25
and in terms of deal numbers

00:42:45:28 - 00:42:49:24
on the ideally if you read of search

00:42:49:31 - 00:42:52:31
that have wrapped up within three months,

00:42:52:32 - 00:42:55:20
property would likely be here

00:42:55:20 - 00:42:58:13
given the complexity of some of the subsectors

00:42:58:13 - 00:43:03:17
within health care, but not certain if the conversations

00:43:03:17 - 00:43:07:10
I'm having at the moment with potential sellers

00:43:07:13 - 00:43:11:16
keep growing through, then absolutely, I'd like at least half a dozen.

00:43:11:18 - 00:43:13:29
Otherwise in the next year.

00:43:13:29 - 00:43:14:15
Super.

00:43:14:15 - 00:43:19:10
And I guess the mission for me is to reconnect and get you back on a pod

00:43:19:13 - 00:43:23:28
at that 12 month stage and see if you still feel if it's quality over quantity.

00:43:23:31 - 00:43:27:03
Because I think you speak to

00:43:27:06 - 00:43:29:04
a search of this gone the full distance

00:43:29:04 - 00:43:32:04
and many of them will probably tell you that the discipline

00:43:32:12 - 00:43:36:13
and the muscles that you exercise on the analysis side

00:43:36:13 - 00:43:40:10
before you get to deal are completely different to the

00:43:40:13 - 00:43:43:23
the deal structuring negotiation, due diligence

00:43:43:26 - 00:43:47:09
that you do and also the the

00:43:47:12 - 00:43:50:25
adaptability, to quote what you said earlier in this podcast

00:43:50:28 - 00:43:54:02
that will come to the fore, I think during that under offer stage

00:43:54:02 - 00:43:57:07
where, you know, the tectonic plates shift beneath you

00:43:57:07 - 00:44:00:21
and you have to keep adapting to to catch up

00:44:00:29 - 00:44:04:32
because there are emotional intellectual market force, you know, commercial

00:44:05:05 - 00:44:08:26
factors beyond your control and sometimes beyond the control of the seller

00:44:08:29 - 00:44:14:13
that change the emotional attachment to the outcome of the process for them.

00:44:14:16 - 00:44:18:13
And that can be a little bit frustrating, shall we say.

00:44:18:13 - 00:44:22:07
So that plan fail, it's right piece might come back to

00:44:22:10 - 00:44:26:04
you even under under that situation is woeful.

00:44:26:04 - 00:44:29:33
How how many deals fall by the wayside even when you think you're onto

00:44:29:33 - 00:44:31:23
a sure thing.

00:44:31:26 - 00:44:34:26
Yeah. Just

00:44:34:29 - 00:44:37:00
just to touch about Porgera very, very quickly,

00:44:37:00 - 00:44:40:00
I think the most important thing is to try and

00:44:40:04 - 00:44:42:09
because ultimately I think it's a numbers game

00:44:42:09 - 00:44:47:31
upstart is getting as many high quality leads as possible

00:44:48:00 - 00:44:52:15
because let's face it and it's a such as their look is going to play a large part

00:44:52:18 - 00:44:55:11
in the success of your venture whether you like it or not.

00:44:55:11 - 00:44:58:11
So for you to tip the scales

00:44:58:13 - 00:45:01:04
statistically in your favor,

00:45:01:04 - 00:45:06:11
you you need to get as many high quality leads and as as possible.

00:45:06:13 - 00:45:09:19
And then you adapt and then you take off your best support or your broker,

00:45:09:27 - 00:45:12:20
you replace it with you ourselves.

00:45:12:20 - 00:45:17:26
So just yet be a man of many hats, be as adaptable as possible.

00:45:17:29 - 00:45:18:01
There

00:45:18:01 - 00:45:21:01
speaks the wisdom and experience of years.

00:45:21:01 - 00:45:25:14
Thanks, Robert, and we are really excited to be tracking your your progress

00:45:25:14 - 00:45:29:24
and wish you the absolute best in getting the deal, the deal

00:45:29:27 - 00:45:32:16
that you want over the line over the coming couple of years.

00:45:32:16 - 00:45:35:32
So I think it's just been an enlightening chat

00:45:36:01 - 00:45:39:01
to chart your career path to this moment

00:45:39:04 - 00:45:41:32
just proves that there's no single path to becoming a searcher.

00:45:41:32 - 00:45:47:09
And actually the path that you take will be much defined by your own experience,

00:45:47:09 - 00:45:53:10
and that should inform your thesis So great to hear how you've analogized

00:45:53:13 - 00:45:57:13
the scientific research and the skills you gained there in preparation

00:45:57:13 - 00:46:01:19
for the corporate finance and M&A and acquisition entrepreneurship journey.

00:46:01:22 - 00:46:05:26
So if listeners want to connect with you, obviously you've got Fox Partners

00:46:05:26 - 00:46:10:12
dot com, you're very active on LinkedIn and we see you at lots of search events,

00:46:10:12 - 00:46:14:11
but any other ways in which they should summon, you.

00:46:14:14 - 00:46:15:09
Know, Linton

00:46:15:09 - 00:46:20:01
is probably the most accessible, easiest and most responsive,

00:46:20:03 - 00:46:21:24
but also kind of just like

00:46:21:24 - 00:46:24:01
take the opportunity to say thank you for inviting me on

00:46:24:01 - 00:46:29:22
and thank you for all the excellent work you and the team there do in popularizing

00:46:29:25 - 00:46:34:15
the platform and getting out there and just

00:46:34:18 - 00:46:36:08
just just spreading the good words.

00:46:36:08 - 00:46:39:17
Because already, like I said, Ammonia Mountain.

00:46:39:17 - 00:46:44:10
But already I've met several vendors

00:46:44:13 - 00:46:45:29
who haven't come across search rooms

00:46:45:29 - 00:46:48:23
who who don't know what it's all about.

00:46:48:23 - 00:46:53:04
And the more people that we can get out to and reach out to the

00:46:53:06 - 00:46:56:06
the more fertile ground it is for all of us.

00:46:56:08 - 00:46:57:02
Very kind of you to say.

00:46:57:02 - 00:46:57:20
And absolutely,

00:46:57:20 - 00:47:00:22
we're all at the vanguard of this movement in in Europe at the moment.

00:47:00:22 - 00:47:01:17
You know, it's still early.

00:47:01:17 - 00:47:06:24
It's not familiar to sellers or number of financiers or whatever.

00:47:06:24 - 00:47:09:29
So, yeah, you know, we have to work together to

00:47:10:02 - 00:47:13:00
to take that kind of burden of education on.

00:47:13:00 - 00:47:14:19
But it's a it's a pleasure and a joy.

00:47:14:19 - 00:47:15:33
And, you know, it gives me the opportunity

00:47:15:33 - 00:47:18:00
to speak to incredible people like yourself.

00:47:18:00 - 00:47:21:00
So thank you again for joining us, proving that

00:47:21:00 - 00:47:25:07
experience and passion is the, you know, the watchwords, regardless

00:47:25:07 - 00:47:29:14
of whether you're 25 or 45, you know, it's there for the taking.

00:47:29:17 - 00:47:32:03
So well done. And

00:47:32:05 - 00:47:33:27
do keep in touch, listeners.

00:47:33:27 - 00:47:36:07
Thanks very much for listening in today.

00:47:36:07 - 00:47:38:12
And until next time, keep on crunching.