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Welcome back to the Amazing,

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the weekly podcast for acquisition Entrepreneurs

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hope builders and search fund investors in the UK, Europe and beyond.

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I'm your host, Gareth Wilkins, co-founder, CEO of

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the End to End Platform and Power Tool Suite for small business Succession M&A.

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Today we are super lucky.

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We are continuing our series of interviews and this time

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with one of the increasing number of capital allocates is helping to make

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search and sub buyout equity get funding accessible to a broader base of investors.

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This gentleman is Alexander Callis, who has in recent months

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brought into the world the B, O, R and G Investment Club

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hot on the back of launching a RG Max Solutions.

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After a very illustrious career in investment management and founding

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and running various platforms, including a multifamily office.

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So, Alex.

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Welcome. Lovely to have you with us.

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Thanks, Gareth and big fan of the show.

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So thanks for having me.

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That's very kind. Big fan of what you're doing. And

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we first came into each other's orbit.

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I think just in the advent of the Serial Acquirer symposium,

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which now feels like a lifetime ago, but was actually only about four months,

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But such has been the whirlwind of 2025.

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And I think we were both

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as sort of technical investors

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with an understanding of capital raising and investment agreement

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structuring and liquidation

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preferences and all the things that come with the alchemy of capital allocation.

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I think we were sort of drawn to the the model

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and the opportunities as similar sort of times.

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So great to have been able to

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be on the same journey in the same vein, but approaching it

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from slightly different angles and trying to achieve solutions

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for different parts of the of the ecosystem because it's

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we were all building the aircraft at 30,000 feet right now.

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Absolutely. There's a place for everyone in the ecosystem.

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So yeah, and it's it's not quite big enough yet.

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So let's, let's, let's keep on keep on keeping on.

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So let's get into your your background if we can.

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I always like to start there and the journey to this point.

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You started your career

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in institutional investment management,

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so I think you have worked

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within the Rothschild operation and Santander

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as a sort of fund of hedge funds before

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you started founding your own operations.

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So give us a little bit of a of a tour of how that played out.

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Absolutely.

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So, yeah, So my background is I'm originally Belgian, but I was born in

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the US, grew up until I was ten in the US and in my studies in Belgium.

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And my plan was to move back to the US originally.

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But I found a job at an M&A actually in UBS initially, and that was in London.

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And so I thought, well, this is on the way to the US, let's start there.

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25 years later, I'm still here.

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But yeah, that's been a good experience so far.

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So yeah, look, I started at UBS, it was an internship

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and I still remember, you know, being in the room actually during 911.

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That's when we're all looking at these,

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you know, very pixelated screens, watching and trying to understand

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what was happening there.

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And but other than that experience, you know, is a great learning

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curve on everything to do with M&A, actually.

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And then eventually I decided I want to move into the investment side of things.

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And so I moved over and joined Rothschild

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at one Rothschild, which had a big fund of hedge fund program,

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and I was allocated the Asian space.

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So looking after and meeting hedge fund managers

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and due diligence, seeing them and

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yeah, basically running a portfolio.

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And at the time it was the oldest

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Asian fund of hedge funds that had been launched and the largest.

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And when I joined we had about 300 million under management

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and by the time I left we had 1.3 billion.

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So at grown significantly, we rode the noughties up

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with along with the the emergence of the asset class in Asia.

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And there's a lot of parallels to what we're doing today.

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Now in the ETF space, actually, which I'll touch on later.

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Would love you too.

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Yeah, I mean, you mentioned riding a wave there,

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but I'm sure there was a lot of hard work

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to actually cram the capital in and attract it from the right places

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and steer it to the right destinations in order to grow the EU.

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I'm like that.

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But that's that's quite a wave.

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Yeah, I know. Absolutely.

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Obviously it's it helps to have a big brand name behind you

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and you know, the power of brand recognition in banking does help. And

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so it wasn't all down

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to me, but I'd like to think I had a little part of it.

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But eventually I moved over to Santander and they had a also a fund of hedge

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fund program. They didn't have anyone covering Asia.

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They had a $300 million portfolio focused on is actually was Japan first.

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And then they wanted me to expand it to cover Asia.

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So it was a great opportunity for me.

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And yeah, the only tricky part was that they were exposed

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during the financial crisis to the big Madoff

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Ponzi scheme and really?

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That was a big learning curve for me.

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I got very frustrated, obviously, as you can imagine, that's

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in my little Asian thing on the side and things happens

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in other parts of the organization which basically brought the

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the divisions division to a close.

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And so it really thought. It was fatal.

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It was fatal for the for the business.

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And so I but I learned a lot.

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You know, obviously my the issue I had was that I had managed my fund quite well.

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Liquidity raised a lot of cash within the portfolio.

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I had made sure that I had aligned liquidity of the liquidity

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of the underlying managers to something that was manageable.

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And so basically, as everyone was trying to pull their money out,

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we got I got treated like an ATM machine and was the first fund

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to be able to be liquidated.

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And it despite having the best performance in the group and

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and of most of the other Asian hedge funds actually.

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So it was very frustrating but there it is.

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And also it taught me a lot of things with respect to due diligence

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and the importance of it's

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something that I'm playing now and actually throughout my career.

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And so very quickly I then moved on and decided I didn't want to be subject

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to working for Bitcoin as the organization where I didn't have control anymore.

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And with a friend of mine we started

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a SAS space due diligence and consulting firm

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for the Asian hedge fund, an emerging market hedge fund industry,

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at a time when a lot of people were a lot of banks and groups were

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cutting down

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their exposure or and you know, are people on the ground.

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And I thought it would be a good idea to

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provide them with outsource consulting solutions for the

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that part of the market that I that I at that time I knew quite well.

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So it was a bit of a baptism by fire.

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And so the entrepreneur step did we have the perfect product market fit and idea.

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I think there were a lot of mistakes that were made.

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I can certainly go into them, but eventually we,

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we, we landed a few clients

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and our biggest clients went on and after two years of operation acquired us.

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And and so yes, that was a good experience.

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We, I then went on and co-founded

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a global asset management firm called Trust International.

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We were based in

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London, Singapore and Abu Dhabi eventually at the end

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and we were basically we grew from initially from doing

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a fund of funds full of managed accounts, public market equities.

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And then we had we pivoted, pivoted, we expanded into the private markets

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and where we launched a real assets program focused on farmland

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investing in Australia, New Zealand's, but also a big venture capital program.

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And our clients were pension funds, family offices, institutions

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and collectively we raised over $1,000,000,000

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across the different programs.

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We were also helping,

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you know, with financing and

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and raising money for individual companies and venture capital and startups

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and really interesting space that we did really well.

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Most of our, if not all of our venture capital investments had done very well.

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We even exited and had a liquidity event with the fund.

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We had some unicorns in there.

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So it was a really great moment to be in VC

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and we were focusing on the university tech

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spin out

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world from the UK university ecosystem

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and I can get into a little bit later on on some of the things we were backing.

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But anyways, so

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and in parallel to that, we also founded

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a division which was a multifamily office called

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East West Private Wealth, and I served as CEO of that business and Global I'm

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sorry, group managing partner of the Mill Trust Business.

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So East West speaking to your experience with Asia and,

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you know, capital flowing, I guess in both directions by that time.

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Correct.

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So bridging the East with the West is love that. Yep.

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So you mentioned there.

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I think, look, first of all, most

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difficult to pick out, I should imagine particular success from that

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because you've got you've obviously had a few,

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I don't know, a few wins, a few wins

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as well as a few slapped in the face, as you mentioned.

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But I guess we don't get to

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that far without having some trip ups along the way.

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But congrats on all of the various successes from those projects.

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Could you point to one specific achievement

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that really stands out that you think, my goodness,

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I could die a happy man tomorrow having achieved that?

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Well, I think I mean, there's obviously a number of them that I'm really proud of.

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And obviously, having built trust in to a global asset management group

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with teams all over the world

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is certainly something I take great pride in.

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You know, we backed 20

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venture capital startups, all doing great, really interesting businesses.

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We've advised over 40 founders with raising money and also with

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structuring their business and getting them investor ready and all that.

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And thus we've raised quite a bit of money for those groups.

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I would say that I was quite instrumental

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in moving and our business to what we call sustainable prosperity.

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So Impact Investments was something that was close to my heart.

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So we on the back of that, I launched the climate's Impact Asia Fund,

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which was a partnership that I negotiated with the World Wide Fund for Nature.

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It was quite a pioneering business.

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And then we also launched the British Innovation Fund, which was our VC fund,

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which I mentioned

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investing in spin offs of UK universities who were invested in food

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tech, agritech health to climate tech, you name its

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quirky, really great stories.

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In fact, one of our success stories was back in during the COVID science.

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And before that, actually we invested in a company called Vasya Tech,

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which was the co-creator of the Oxford AstraZeneca COVID 19 vaccine.

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So we got to see live the effects of, you know, having our,

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you know, fluids, our COVID jabs

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injected into such a huge world's population.

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And then that company actually listed on Nasdaq in 2021.

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So that was a great exit for us.

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And just to name a few things, I was I.

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Mean, that's that's quite some picking ability there.

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How did you I mean, I don't want to dwell too long on the VC element of this.

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This is about like the buyouts.

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But I'm really intrigued to know how you pick that in the world of

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because at the time

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it was getting quite busy in terms of like vaccine technology spin outs.

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Yeah, in fact, they were

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they had another program actually, they were doing something else.

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And during COVID, they actually pivoted and and in focus

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because they had the technology had on on being able to develop

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something really focused on on solving this problem.

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And so they took the bull by the horns.

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But yeah, no, look, it was part of the Oxford University ecosystem.

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It was in our right, in our alley, and we were lucky and fortunate to

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have been introduced to them.

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Yeah. Well, they are.

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I think you have the Midas touch. Alex.

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You're.

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You're that man that's at the right place at the right time.

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I'm sure there's a lot of diligent research goes into making sure you're

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at the right place at the right time, but definitely there are a few wins there.

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So I want to, you know, that should really give us hope

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and assure us that as people operating in this space

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to have attracted somebody like yourself who was at the

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the forefront, the dawn of the Asian market opening up,

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who has experienced the sort of the VC boom

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and the vintage in the era of great returns in VC

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to now come to ETA and S&P buyouts

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and see some correlations or see some opportunities for Alpha

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in a similar way I'm really interested in because, you know, here

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you are

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with this experience under your belt, looking from the wisdom of the years

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at the next opportunity, I'm really interested

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in what compelled you to come here? Absolutely. Look,

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continue my

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story post COVID venture capital had took a big hit.

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We had exited our British Innovation Fund one, and we had

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invested some of the proprietary money into 12 different companies.

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And then COVID hit. Everything dried up.

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We were looking to roll into our second fund,

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and that took longer than we expected.

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You know, interest rates had gone up,

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liquidity had gone down, obviously, and the cost of capital was was higher.

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And so people were searching for more liquid and better yields,

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which they could obtain without the liquidity risk. So

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so then that's what prompted us to move into to our multifamily office

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kind of parking the venture capital investments on the side.

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And I think by that time, look, I loved the technologies.

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The founders are a lot of fun, but I did was little bit

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disillusioned with the VC space, you know, where

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they had

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the early stage risks, the tech risk, the unicorn risk.

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Yeah.

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You're pushing these founders to extreme growth pressures,

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expecting very well.

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That's the portion of your portfolio that fail.

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And you're just betting on the unicorn.

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And I think that I thought that model was

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just probably

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not for me entirely, and I thought there were other ways of doing things.

00:15:04:07 - 00:15:09:07
And so I was a little bit soul searching and I came across,

00:15:09:10 - 00:15:13:21
I guess, this famous book by then, build by worker title.

00:15:13:24 - 00:15:16:01
And that was for me, the global Bible.

00:15:16:01 - 00:15:17:10
I table Bible. There you go.

00:15:17:10 - 00:15:21:02
And you know, just the concept of being able to acquire 1

00:15:21:02 - 00:15:24:26
to 5 million Uber businesses for three, six times.

00:15:24:28 - 00:15:26:01
It's got me really excited.

00:15:26:01 - 00:15:29:08
For me, it was the perfect antidote to venture capital

00:15:29:10 - 00:15:31:18
and I thought, this is what I need to get into.

00:15:31:18 - 00:15:33:20
It just makes so much sense.

00:15:33:22 - 00:15:36:00
You know, back to also

00:15:36:00 - 00:15:40:25
by the fact that you had this huge success wave, an issue obviously

00:15:40:26 - 00:15:45:00
starting in like in Japan, in the US and with the baby boomers and

00:15:45:03 - 00:15:47:28
looking to require a retired now and you have,

00:15:47:28 - 00:15:52:03
I think 450,000 semi transfers a year with, you know, 2

00:15:52:03 - 00:15:55:20
million people in the community community that are subject to that.

00:15:55:20 - 00:15:59:16
And if these companies die out and it's just a such seem defines

00:15:59:19 - 00:16:03:22
perfectly well good operating businesses and let them sizzle

00:16:03:22 - 00:16:06:31
basically you know or not sizzle fizzle is what I'm looking for.

00:16:07:00 - 00:16:08:25
Exactly.

00:16:08:25 - 00:16:09:20
So yes.

00:16:09:20 - 00:16:13:14
So basically I got really enamored with the asset class and the space.

00:16:13:14 - 00:16:14:30
And I left trust.

00:16:14:30 - 00:16:16:30
I'm still a shareholder friendly shareholder.

00:16:16:30 - 00:16:19:22
I'm supporting them and I'm still on the board of the funds

00:16:19:22 - 00:16:24:08
where they have nine funds and one asset class that I'm so involved

00:16:24:08 - 00:16:27:29
in very happily supporting in many ways.

00:16:27:31 - 00:16:28:33
But I wanted to do something else.

00:16:28:33 - 00:16:31:29
So at that stage, after 15 years and

00:16:31:32 - 00:16:34:18
so, you know, the first thing I did was,

00:16:34:18 - 00:16:38:06
as any kind of UK acquirer would do,

00:16:38:06 - 00:16:43:03
is set up a holding company and look for a bunch of businesses and

00:16:43:06 - 00:16:46:11
I quickly came to the realization that actually once you buy a business,

00:16:46:11 - 00:16:47:24
you have to operate them.

00:16:47:24 - 00:16:51:30
And I thought, well, actually I'm not an operator, it's not my background.

00:16:51:30 - 00:16:53:21
And that's tricky, that it's tricky

00:16:53:21 - 00:16:56:14
that you have to get in there and roll your sleeves up, dammit.

00:16:56:14 - 00:16:59:14
And obviously, you know, the idea was not really to operate them,

00:16:59:14 - 00:17:01:10
but to find an operator and have them operate.

00:17:01:10 - 00:17:02:11
But then

00:17:02:11 - 00:17:06:30
I thought there must be a better way that better suits my, my, my experience.

00:17:06:30 - 00:17:10:20
And yeah, I think, you know,

00:17:10:22 - 00:17:13:30
I came full down to the conclusion, well, I had this epiphany

00:17:13:30 - 00:17:15:21
with the fund of Funds experience that I had.

00:17:15:21 - 00:17:19:05
Well, instead of buying businesses outright, why don't I find business

00:17:19:10 - 00:17:23:08
buyers and operators that I can back with their experience

00:17:23:08 - 00:17:29:17
and create a kind of a portfolio approach of many of these and

00:17:29:20 - 00:17:30:04
apply

00:17:30:04 - 00:17:33:15
institutional grade due diligence that I've been familiar with

00:17:33:15 - 00:17:36:22
and applying the same methodology of both fund of funds investments,

00:17:36:22 - 00:17:41:00
but also direct private private equity or venture capital investments

00:17:41:02 - 00:17:44:05
at the same time, you know, I have 25 years

00:17:44:05 - 00:17:47:23
of large investor network that I've built over the years.

00:17:47:25 - 00:17:50:03
I haven't pissed off too many people, I think, over the years.

00:17:50:03 - 00:17:52:08
So, you know.

00:17:52:08 - 00:17:55:29
I just made more of them, more of them very happy by the sounds of the result.

00:17:55:32 - 00:17:56:08
We'll see.

00:17:56:08 - 00:18:00:22
But but no, I just realized none of these people have exposure

00:18:00:22 - 00:18:02:25
to this kind of low and middle market space.

00:18:02:25 - 00:18:06:21
They're obviously, well, explosive private equity, venture capital,

00:18:06:25 - 00:18:09:25
hedge funds, equities, bonds, the traditional stuff.

00:18:09:28 - 00:18:12:21
And for me, this was a nothing class.

00:18:12:21 - 00:18:16:13
It was completely overlooked and undiscovered and.

00:18:16:16 - 00:18:19:16
Inaccessible, he might say as well to many.

00:18:19:18 - 00:18:23:07
In an opaque, I would say. And,

00:18:23:09 - 00:18:24:07
you know,

00:18:24:07 - 00:18:26:31
so I thought it was certainly ripe

00:18:26:31 - 00:18:30:03
for considering adding this asset class

00:18:30:03 - 00:18:35:10
to traditional institutional portfolios as a the first fire, if anything.

00:18:35:12 - 00:18:40:13
So institutions are still yet to really discover this asset class

00:18:40:13 - 00:18:47:10
and have a kind of validated route into investing in it.

00:18:47:12 - 00:18:50:28
You know, we've spoken about this on this podcast before about

00:18:50:28 - 00:18:54:12
how we're still at the kind of vanguard of educating investors

00:18:54:20 - 00:18:58:14
to join the capital allocators and get into this opportunity.

00:18:58:14 - 00:19:02:08
I mean, I take your earlier point about the power law being a bit bonkers in DC,

00:19:02:09 - 00:19:06:10
and yet there's all this dry powder and all this, you know, crammed in capital

00:19:06:10 - 00:19:09:32
that's gone in to what is a risky, risky asset class.

00:19:10:01 - 00:19:11:14
So, so here we are with all these cash

00:19:11:14 - 00:19:15:06
flowing assets and all these opportunities for leverage, etc., etc.

00:19:15:09 - 00:19:18:28
but because they are small and require operators to go in, they've become,

00:19:18:30 - 00:19:20:11
you know, they've been left kind of off limits.

00:19:20:11 - 00:19:23:32
So to be able to solve that at the moment, it's,

00:19:24:04 - 00:19:24:17
you know, you know,

00:19:24:17 - 00:19:27:32
solving it for family offices, you're solving it for high net worth individuals

00:19:28:05 - 00:19:28:26
to be able to solve

00:19:28:26 - 00:19:32:00
that also for institutions, I think would be a massive unlock.

00:19:32:02 - 00:19:32:13
Yeah.

00:19:32:13 - 00:19:36:07
I mean, obviously there are hurdles in the fact that it is a very much

00:19:36:07 - 00:19:39:24
so people driven business and an asset class.

00:19:39:26 - 00:19:42:26
So we need to see how scalable this is.

00:19:42:26 - 00:19:47:23
But there certainly is space for, you know, portfolios of modest size

00:19:47:23 - 00:19:51:11
or like small family offices or even larger ones and.

00:19:51:14 - 00:19:54:15
Plenty of capital to steward into this into this opportunity.

00:19:54:23 - 00:20:00:01
So I'm interested in the thesis because you with Archie Max

00:20:00:01 - 00:20:02:09
and also with the BPO or AMG

00:20:02:09 - 00:20:04:26
Investment Club, which we'll need to get into as to why

00:20:04:26 - 00:20:06:28
you chose that name and its particular thesis.

00:20:06:28 - 00:20:10:19
But you are you are assisting

00:20:10:19 - 00:20:15:03
with equity gap funding, which I think is a massive area.

00:20:15:06 - 00:20:18:07
You know, we're seeing a growing number of savvy

00:20:18:07 - 00:20:22:29
individual investors that are getting into the search phase of certain

00:20:22:29 - 00:20:27:24
traditional Stanford model search funds, but then not necessarily following on.

00:20:27:26 - 00:20:31:27
So that leaves a bit of a gulf because, yes, they get the one and a half times,

00:20:31:27 - 00:20:35:32
you know, uplift, but they they don't then come with the additional actual

00:20:35:32 - 00:20:37:33
necessary capital to get the acquisitions done.

00:20:37:33 - 00:20:41:20
You're helping to solve that problem by getting in actually at the

00:20:41:20 - 00:20:46:00
equity gap stage and not necessarily just going along for the the search phase

00:20:46:03 - 00:20:49:02
is about about what triggered that.

00:20:49:02 - 00:20:52:14
Yeah, Well, I mean, look, I think

00:20:52:17 - 00:20:53:00
I often

00:20:53:00 - 00:20:56:33
joke that we're we're search one investor without the fund and without the search.

00:20:57:01 - 00:21:00:31
You know I I'm pretty much a man on a mission.

00:21:00:31 - 00:21:03:31
I don't have time to wait two years for someone to find something.

00:21:04:01 - 00:21:06:31
So I'm interested.

00:21:06:31 - 00:21:10:23
And so, you know, like you said, you know, there's there's

00:21:10:26 - 00:21:13:07
gap funding requirements increasingly.

00:21:13:07 - 00:21:18:17
So there's also I see a risk in in the whole search phase

00:21:18:19 - 00:21:22:11
failing, you know, where we're about maybe a couple of years ago

00:21:22:14 - 00:21:26:12
it was I think the statistics were around 31% have failed

00:21:26:12 - 00:21:29:29
and now we're getting closer to 43 to 50%.

00:21:29:32 - 00:21:33:30
So I think that's not a risk that I wanted my investors

00:21:33:30 - 00:21:36:30
and my CO investors to necessarily bear.

00:21:37:02 - 00:21:41:07
And I'd rather go for a deal that's ready and close to Ally.

00:21:41:09 - 00:21:44:24
And also the fact that you can, you know, once you have a deal,

00:21:44:24 - 00:21:47:29
you have a real target, you have the terms on paper,

00:21:47:29 - 00:21:50:10
you have the seller that's aligned, everything's there

00:21:50:10 - 00:21:54:32
and you can actually focus on the deed and get moving with a real case.

00:21:55:01 - 00:21:56:33
So yeah.

00:21:57:02 - 00:21:57:22
Great stuff,

00:21:57:22 - 00:22:02:09
great thesis and delighted to see there's somebody coming in to try and solve that

00:22:02:17 - 00:22:06:27
and that has a bias for action and impetus for momentum.

00:22:06:29 - 00:22:10:15
That that is great because yes, it has been a patient

00:22:10:15 - 00:22:15:08
capital game has particularly with backing the traditional searches.

00:22:15:08 - 00:22:18:08
It has been a sort of two year journey.

00:22:18:13 - 00:22:21:27
But to know that there are these ready allocators

00:22:21:27 - 00:22:25:27
waiting to back these, you know, pending opportunities is tremendous.

00:22:25:27 - 00:22:27:33
So I'm sure our listeners will be heartened.

00:22:27:33 - 00:22:30:17
So let's get into the name, shall we?

00:22:30:17 - 00:22:31:19
Okay.

00:22:31:19 - 00:22:34:19
Well, it's a bit tongue in cheek, obviously.

00:22:34:21 - 00:22:38:07
It's actually an acronym, BORING, as the acronym is Buyouts

00:22:38:07 - 00:22:42:22
of Resilient Income generating businesses.

00:22:42:24 - 00:22:44:26
Love that. It's yeah.

00:22:44:26 - 00:22:48:14
I mean, look, I'm not hugely enamored with the name, but it's it works.

00:22:48:14 - 00:22:51:23
And the whole concept is that no, boring is beautiful.

00:22:51:23 - 00:22:55:05
And for me it's the antidote to venture capital.

00:22:55:08 - 00:22:59:26
It's got these companies have sticky customers, they're beyond product

00:22:59:26 - 00:23:00:12
market fit.

00:23:00:12 - 00:23:05:29
They've been around for 20 whatever years, steady cash flows, you know, there's

00:23:05:29 - 00:23:10:19
little drama and that's what I like at this point in time in my life.

00:23:10:22 - 00:23:12:04
Reliable technique,

00:23:12:04 - 00:23:16:11
you know, and and what's interesting is that I'm not necessarily against growth.

00:23:16:11 - 00:23:17:27
You know, I think there is going to be

00:23:17:27 - 00:23:20:28
at least there's a solid baseline from which to grow and operate from.

00:23:20:28 - 00:23:22:11
And there's

00:23:22:11 - 00:23:24:30
this really this move away from the hopes and dreams.

00:23:24:30 - 00:23:29:06
And it doesn't mean that you can not apply efficiencies

00:23:29:06 - 00:23:34:06
and peace and bring in some things to to to to make it grow.

00:23:34:06 - 00:23:37:09
But but at least the baseline is there and you're beyond the hopes

00:23:37:09 - 00:23:41:28
and dreams that I got disillusioned about with B C.

00:23:41:31 - 00:23:43:14
Yes, indeed.

00:23:43:14 - 00:23:47:17
So boring is beautiful and actually getting involved at this inflection point

00:23:47:17 - 00:23:51:23
where new talent comes in to breed rejuvenation and maybe drive the upside.

00:23:51:23 - 00:23:55:06
The alpha that we're looking for from these investments is,

00:23:55:08 - 00:23:59:31
you know, something coming some way towards VC, but certainly still a country

00:23:59:31 - 00:24:04:09
mile away from the high risk factor that comes with something going 0 to 1.

00:24:04:09 - 00:24:06:12
So, yeah, got it.

00:24:06:12 - 00:24:10:11
And I think boring has become synonymous with this asset

00:24:10:11 - 00:24:14:03
class in terms of the targets, you know, boring is safe and beneficial.

00:24:14:03 - 00:24:15:05
So and, you know, Ms..

00:24:15:05 - 00:24:19:13
Sanchez is has been very keen to promote boring is a good thing.

00:24:19:13 - 00:24:21:32
So I think we should emphasize that.

00:24:22:01 - 00:24:25:01
So tell us about the structure of the

00:24:25:03 - 00:24:28:29
the vehicle where what how does it allocate capital?

00:24:28:32 - 00:24:34:02
What kind of LPs or investor partners does it bring?

00:24:34:05 - 00:24:36:06
Give us a bit more detail, please, Alice.

00:24:36:06 - 00:24:36:29
Okay, great.

00:24:36:29 - 00:24:38:33
I mean, it's pretty simple. It's

00:24:38:33 - 00:24:41:02
I mean, I literally launched like six,

00:24:41:02 - 00:24:44:02
seven weeks ago, so it's early days, but

00:24:44:08 - 00:24:47:26
members are it's invitation only and we're getting into that.

00:24:47:26 - 00:24:50:33
But it's the idea is to bring across

00:24:51:07 - 00:24:54:26
sophisticated professional investors from my network

00:24:54:28 - 00:24:57:26
and create a club where

00:24:57:26 - 00:25:00:26
it's run, it's operated by professional regulated

00:25:00:29 - 00:25:04:30
TPI affinity compliance in Luxembourg actually.

00:25:04:30 - 00:25:09:12
And we come in as LPs and cocoa investors.

00:25:09:12 - 00:25:11:27
It's all the AML checks.

00:25:11:27 - 00:25:15:06
Everything is done by the regulated platform partners.

00:25:15:09 - 00:25:18:32
And yeah, what I do on a daily basis is, you know,

00:25:18:33 - 00:25:22:23
I, I'm searching and meeting with searchers,

00:25:22:26 - 00:25:26:21
try to know where they are in their different parts of their journey,

00:25:26:23 - 00:25:26:33
try to

00:25:26:33 - 00:25:30:13
understand and get to know them, see what they're looking for.

00:25:30:14 - 00:25:33:15
When they have something under Ally, they typically come to me

00:25:33:15 - 00:25:36:26
and show me, talk to me about the deal.

00:25:36:28 - 00:25:38:07
And I do.

00:25:38:07 - 00:25:42:16
I go from like an early screen to more deep dive on

00:25:42:18 - 00:25:44:22
search terms that I find interesting and other

00:25:44:22 - 00:25:48:07
interesting targets and under LOI

00:25:48:10 - 00:25:52:28
and then apply my kind of institutional frameworks and experience.

00:25:52:28 - 00:25:57:10
So I've actually built my own kind of framework, which I call another acronym.

00:25:57:10 - 00:26:01:13
Sorry about that, but it's called the Best Fits Model, Best Fit framework.

00:26:01:16 - 00:26:04:12
In some cases, depending on how big or small we are

00:26:04:12 - 00:26:07:22
and the allocation, we may take a board

00:26:07:22 - 00:26:10:22
seat and enforce that.

00:26:10:26 - 00:26:15:05
But that governance and reporting to our shareholders are interesting.

00:26:15:05 - 00:26:18:07
You're you're trying to ascertain the extent

00:26:18:07 - 00:26:22:03
to which those criteria are met pre investment,

00:26:22:03 - 00:26:27:09
but also quite happy to help shape them and achieve them post investment.

00:26:27:12 - 00:26:28:00
Absolutely.

00:26:28:00 - 00:26:29:28
Look, I think it's it's key.

00:26:29:28 - 00:26:31:07
It depends on, you know, if they're

00:26:31:07 - 00:26:34:26
if it's a big deal where we're a minority shareholders and small on the cap table

00:26:34:26 - 00:26:39:20
we we may not get those things that we would like to have that we take off.

00:26:39:22 - 00:26:43:30
But in that case we'll certainly review what kind of the mean

00:26:43:30 - 00:26:47:24
the lead investors have negotiated and see if that fits for us.

00:26:47:24 - 00:26:50:33
And who's on the board of the company and of smaller deals,

00:26:50:33 - 00:26:55:09
you know, maybe self-funded searchers, we would typically have a larger

00:26:55:09 - 00:26:58:12
stake and maybe be the only investor alongside thinking.

00:26:58:12 - 00:27:00:14
More a more leading role. Yeah.

00:27:00:14 - 00:27:04:13
So you mentioned it's a club, that's what important distinction.

00:27:04:21 - 00:27:10:32
And but it's a club with an a firm, a GP, regulated GP that

00:27:11:00 - 00:27:12:12
is experienced in it and

00:27:12:12 - 00:27:17:10
hopefully a safe pair of hands be the alignment of the stakeholders.

00:27:17:10 - 00:27:19:01
How do you manage that?

00:27:19:01 - 00:27:21:20
You know, how do you keep everybody if.

00:27:21:20 - 00:27:25:00
We just finalize a little bit how the club works just very quickly?

00:27:25:00 - 00:27:26:18
So once we have the deal

00:27:26:18 - 00:27:30:07
that we've identified in due diligence, we bring it to the platform.

00:27:30:10 - 00:27:32:06
There's never any obligation to invest.

00:27:32:06 - 00:27:35:11
So everybody comes, comes in and make their own investment decisions.

00:27:35:11 - 00:27:40:02
We're not providing this advice, recommendations or arranging anything.

00:27:40:05 - 00:27:43:07
But what we do is will organize a call with the searcher.

00:27:43:13 - 00:27:48:01
We'll get everybody around the table or on the call being able to ask questions.

00:27:48:01 - 00:27:52:00
And that's where we really see the magic of the club, because everyone's

00:27:52:03 - 00:27:56:01
pooling together and contributing really excellent questions

00:27:56:01 - 00:27:59:23
for the benefit of all the members, which I think was is really fascinating

00:27:59:23 - 00:28:04:19
how that works as opposed to kind of competing against each other for,

00:28:04:22 - 00:28:06:17
I guess the deals for for the deals rather.

00:28:06:17 - 00:28:08:03
So yeah.

00:28:08:03 - 00:28:10:04
And then basically members

00:28:10:04 - 00:28:13:21
can put in flexible amounts as long as, you know, basically

00:28:13:22 - 00:28:15:04
as a crowdfunding vehicle,

00:28:15:04 - 00:28:16:25
you can put down as little down as you want,

00:28:16:25 - 00:28:19:23
several millions if she wants, or like 10,000 to several million,

00:28:19:23 - 00:28:22:23
depending on how much you want to put in, as long as collectively

00:28:22:25 - 00:28:25:25
we get to the magic number that we're looking to raise.

00:28:25:33 - 00:28:29:12
And then once that's done, we syndicate that we're a regulated platform.

00:28:29:12 - 00:28:32:13
Parties indicate that the create an SPV in Luxembourg

00:28:32:13 - 00:28:34:29
that's texture, experience and tax efficient

00:28:34:29 - 00:28:38:24
and we all come into the cap table as one investor

00:28:38:27 - 00:28:42:28
that keeps it very simple and aligned with,

00:28:42:30 - 00:28:45:30
with the the searcher.

00:28:45:32 - 00:28:46:20
great stuff.

00:28:46:20 - 00:28:49:33
And I guess in terms of alignment, which is your next question, I think

00:28:50:01 - 00:28:53:13
look at all these are deal deal by deal.

00:28:53:13 - 00:28:54:28
There's never any obligation

00:28:54:28 - 00:28:58:25
to investors perfect clarity on what you're getting into.

00:28:58:28 - 00:29:02:29
I invest in all the deals personally, so I've got skin in the game.

00:29:02:32 - 00:29:04:07
I mentioned governance where

00:29:04:07 - 00:29:08:07
we try to have a board seats or at least an observer seats.

00:29:08:07 - 00:29:11:20
And in any case, though, do pledge to reports

00:29:11:20 - 00:29:16:02
and ensure there's reserved matters are covered.

00:29:16:05 - 00:29:19:14
And then obviously there's the searchers incentives, which is, you know,

00:29:19:16 - 00:29:23:05
also a stake in incentives within the structure

00:29:23:05 - 00:29:26:13
of the investment or the acquisition itself.

00:29:26:16 - 00:29:27:25
Well, let's drill down into the searches,

00:29:27:25 - 00:29:31:17
because obviously they are the one of the key components here.

00:29:31:20 - 00:29:35:33
What do you look for specifically in the searches that that you would have back?

00:29:36:02 - 00:29:40:12
Does it look, I think, you know, I quite like people who have experience

00:29:40:12 - 00:29:44:16
so kind of middle career type professional

00:29:44:19 - 00:29:46:12
typically that can operate.

00:29:46:12 - 00:29:49:00
Who's got experience operating successfully?

00:29:49:00 - 00:29:51:15
Obviously, I don't mind when there's been some setbacks.

00:29:51:15 - 00:29:53:00
In fact, that's probably also a positive.

00:29:53:00 - 00:29:56:00
But, you know, at least some success,

00:29:56:07 - 00:29:59:24
hopefully, but also operating and scaling businesses.

00:29:59:24 - 00:30:02:26
And if they have experience having bought a business

00:30:02:26 - 00:30:07:14
for and even exited, that's also a bonus.

00:30:07:17 - 00:30:08:09
We're seeing a lot of

00:30:08:09 - 00:30:11:16
different types of buyers from kind of self-funded searchers.

00:30:11:16 - 00:30:12:19
We have dual searchers.

00:30:12:19 - 00:30:17:01
We have currently search fund sponsor deals, we have the independent sponsors.

00:30:17:01 - 00:30:20:19
So I'm a little bit agnostic at the moment and maybe we'll open down

00:30:20:19 - 00:30:23:09
onto one of these in particular based on the feedback

00:30:23:09 - 00:30:25:00
I get from the club and with their preferences.

00:30:25:00 - 00:30:30:00
But you know, they all come in different dynamics and different economics as well.

00:30:30:00 - 00:30:34:14
But what I do like to see is true grit from the entrepreneur

00:30:34:14 - 00:30:37:06
and having searched for a company for two years

00:30:37:06 - 00:30:39:24
certainly helps in demonstrating that they've achieved.

00:30:39:24 - 00:30:43:19
To know that to go through the highs and lows of that experience,

00:30:43:19 - 00:30:49:18
I think, you know, showing true resilience and an attitude to get things done.

00:30:49:21 - 00:30:51:20
But what's also very important is,

00:30:51:20 - 00:30:54:31
I guess the clear vision and strategy for growing.

00:30:55:04 - 00:30:58:19
You've been taking over from the founder, making sure that the founder

00:30:58:19 - 00:31:02:06
led businesses is protected and

00:31:02:08 - 00:31:04:21
and then, you know, just the high

00:31:04:21 - 00:31:07:21
IQ that's that's very, very important.

00:31:07:24 - 00:31:10:14
Building rapport with the staff they're going to Harrods

00:31:10:14 - 00:31:15:06
and honestly transparency I guess you know integrity is very key.

00:31:15:09 - 00:31:19:24
You know, there's a those soft skills the people skills piece.

00:31:19:24 - 00:31:23:30
I think that that's absolutely vital in running a successful

00:31:23:33 - 00:31:26:09
post deal growth phase.

00:31:26:09 - 00:31:27:25
You need everybody to come with you.

00:31:27:25 - 00:31:30:01
And if they don't trust you, they won't.

00:31:30:01 - 00:31:33:22
So that's really clear as to what you're looking for.

00:31:33:28 - 00:31:37:07
What do you hope beyond the capital you're giving to these? Why?

00:31:37:07 - 00:31:40:30
Why would you think the searches would prefer to deal with a structure

00:31:40:30 - 00:31:45:09
in an organization like this is some of the more traditional routes?

00:31:45:12 - 00:31:49:04
Yeah, well, I mean, like you said earlier, everyone seems to be in need of

00:31:49:07 - 00:31:52:03
equity, get funding for the best deals.

00:31:52:03 - 00:31:55:03
You know, there's a lot of talk about no money down and all that, but that's

00:31:55:11 - 00:31:58:27
I I've yet to see a lot of those happening.

00:31:58:30 - 00:32:02:12
So I think there's you know the ability for us to help

00:32:02:12 - 00:32:08:14
guide them being kind of investor ready and package their presentations

00:32:08:14 - 00:32:11:19
and the way in the terms for investors, that's also very key.

00:32:11:19 - 00:32:13:17
Some come from different walks of life,

00:32:13:17 - 00:32:16:31
not necessarily experienced in talking to professional investors.

00:32:16:31 - 00:32:20:00
So I think we can help shape that,

00:32:20:02 - 00:32:21:22
you know, without specifically arranging

00:32:21:22 - 00:32:27:19
or promoting the deal to our investors, but at least helping them on that front.

00:32:27:21 - 00:32:32:27
I think it's also important for them or interesting to them to know that

00:32:32:30 - 00:32:35:17
they can simplify their cap table

00:32:35:17 - 00:32:37:23
where, you know, we come in as one investor.

00:32:37:23 - 00:32:40:00
In fact, we're having conversations with some

00:32:40:00 - 00:32:44:17
some of these investors who have a lot of sort of some of these

00:32:44:20 - 00:32:47:18
searchers who've we have a number of investors

00:32:47:18 - 00:32:51:19
that are putting in small tickets and they're asking us to come and

00:32:51:21 - 00:32:55:18
syndicate them for us, for them so that they don't need to work

00:32:55:18 - 00:32:57:08
with so many different lines on the cap table.

00:32:57:08 - 00:32:58:28
So I think it's a quite interesting development.

00:32:58:28 - 00:33:02:05
So we'll see if we move in that direction. But

00:33:02:07 - 00:33:04:09
there's definitely interest there.

00:33:04:09 - 00:33:08:07
And then I guess, you know, just less leverage maybe,

00:33:08:09 - 00:33:11:00
maybe in some cases removing any personal guarantees

00:33:11:00 - 00:33:15:12
if there's senior secured debt involved or whatever.

00:33:15:15 - 00:33:18:27
And I think what I'd love to see is kind of this

00:33:18:27 - 00:33:24:15
ecosystem of network of investors from my community where if, let's say

00:33:24:17 - 00:33:28:08
there's a specific project work that needs to be done within the company,

00:33:28:08 - 00:33:29:21
maybe I can tap into the network.

00:33:29:21 - 00:33:32:21
They all have different backgrounds in different industries

00:33:32:21 - 00:33:35:32
and maybe there's something I can plug in and do a project work from like

00:33:36:00 - 00:33:36:33
implementation or so

00:33:36:33 - 00:33:39:33
on something or CFO work or whatever, you know, it could be anything.

00:33:40:06 - 00:33:41:01
And so hopefully.

00:33:41:01 - 00:33:43:02
That's a real value add to it.

00:33:43:02 - 00:33:45:15
The fact that you're bringing all of these, you know, experienced,

00:33:45:15 - 00:33:49:16
motivated investors, albeit aggregated

00:33:49:16 - 00:33:54:26
into into one nominee or SPV, actually there's personalities

00:33:54:32 - 00:33:57:20
and, you know, huge wisdom and experience behind

00:33:57:20 - 00:34:01:16
those folks that could be allocated into some of these tasks.

00:34:01:16 - 00:34:02:32
And projects post-acquisition.

00:34:02:32 - 00:34:05:11
That's that's a real value add.

00:34:05:11 - 00:34:06:24
But what we what we seek

00:34:06:24 - 00:34:09:02
is that when we when we're acquiring, we want to surround ourselves

00:34:09:02 - 00:34:13:12
with good people that have walked this journey before. Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:13:15 - 00:34:14:07
Magic.

00:34:14:07 - 00:34:14:26
Yeah.

00:34:14:26 - 00:34:18:02
So where are you focusing your guns?

00:34:18:02 - 00:34:21:16
I mean, you you've obviously got the whole Europe

00:34:21:23 - 00:34:25:29
and beyond to play with here sector wise and geography wise.

00:34:25:29 - 00:34:29:30
Are there any particular areas that you are particularly excited

00:34:29:30 - 00:34:33:19
about that you think is going to deliver more alpha than than others?

00:34:33:21 - 00:34:33:30
Yeah.

00:34:33:30 - 00:34:38:10
Look, I think if I take out of my career best fit approach,

00:34:38:13 - 00:34:42:04
what I like to see is a perfect fit between the buyer and the target company,

00:34:42:04 - 00:34:46:05
regardless of the industry or the sector and or the geography.

00:34:46:05 - 00:34:48:03
So that's kind of the first and foremost.

00:34:48:03 - 00:34:51:09
So is that therefore you would look for them to have experience

00:34:51:09 - 00:34:54:23
in the space that they're acquiring it?

00:34:54:25 - 00:34:56:19
That helps for sure,

00:34:56:19 - 00:35:01:20
but otherwise kind of transferable skills that I think can work.

00:35:01:23 - 00:35:02:19
And yeah, look, I mean, I

00:35:02:19 - 00:35:06:22
think there's opportunities in so many different things.

00:35:06:24 - 00:35:11:02
I'm seeing companies like in kind of light manufactures ring,

00:35:11:06 - 00:35:15:15
you know, warehousing, logistics, industrial printing, h-back obviously

00:35:15:15 - 00:35:18:23
the big one, industrial cleaning construction.

00:35:18:24 - 00:35:20:11
I mean, there's there's so many different things.

00:35:20:11 - 00:35:25:01
And yeah, at the moment I've met like 63,

00:35:25:01 - 00:35:29:22
I think it was search on my database and business meeting,

00:35:29:25 - 00:35:34:16
you know, a dozen a week, a week, I guess, as well as investors

00:35:34:19 - 00:35:38:14
who are approaching me to learn more about the club and

00:35:38:17 - 00:35:39:30
potentially look at joining it.

00:35:39:30 - 00:35:45:10
So being very selective, but it shows that you're I'm just building as we go and

00:35:45:13 - 00:35:48:03
it's there's a lot more ground to cover as well.

00:35:48:03 - 00:35:48:24
Because imagine

00:35:48:24 - 00:35:53:06
you're going to need a team soon which is going to need some some revenue.

00:35:53:08 - 00:35:55:23
Yeah but it's on the way.

00:35:55:23 - 00:35:56:32
Indeed, indeed.

00:35:56:32 - 00:35:59:32
Well, that's great and very excited for your journey.

00:36:00:01 - 00:36:01:33
Has it been plain sailing this far?

00:36:01:33 - 00:36:04:07
I mean, you mentioned that you put it into the world.

00:36:04:07 - 00:36:06:16
I mean, the club is recent.

00:36:06:16 - 00:36:08:31
IAG, Max is a bit older,

00:36:09:00 - 00:36:10:02
have there been any

00:36:10:02 - 00:36:13:25
bumps in the road that you can speak to that others might learn from?

00:36:13:28 - 00:36:18:07
Yeah, look, I think well, I kind of knew going into this is my third business now.

00:36:18:07 - 00:36:22:11
I think I'm certainly more prepared and I think

00:36:22:14 - 00:36:27:04
what challenges they face was a little bit in the

00:36:27:07 - 00:36:28:18
sequencing of the market.

00:36:28:18 - 00:36:31:09
Initially, I wanted to set up a holding company

00:36:31:09 - 00:36:32:18
environment and pressure businesses.

00:36:32:18 - 00:36:35:20
As I mentioned, it took a while, but eventually I found this kind

00:36:35:20 - 00:36:39:18
of equity syndication idea and I think that's where

00:36:39:20 - 00:36:42:09
demand's really been confirmed from both sides.

00:36:42:09 - 00:36:46:03
As I mentioned, I meet lots of different searchers and investors on a weekly basis.

00:36:46:04 - 00:36:50:19
It really seems like if it's something quite interesting here and

00:36:50:22 - 00:36:53:13
yeah, I'm getting great feedback, people saying to me, Look,

00:36:53:13 - 00:36:55:01
I would never have found some of these deals

00:36:55:01 - 00:36:58:30
without the club and others saying that they've seen some of the jobs and

00:36:58:30 - 00:37:01:04
stuff shared with them,

00:37:01:07 - 00:37:01:17
which is

00:37:01:17 - 00:37:06:25
currently on par with their expectations of, you know, as private equity investors

00:37:06:25 - 00:37:09:30
and yeah, so it's the feedback is overwhelmingly

00:37:09:30 - 00:37:12:20
positive actually, which is really encouraging.

00:37:12:20 - 00:37:14:29
Is there anything particularly that surprised you?

00:37:14:29 - 00:37:20:04
Like, you know, you come from being an institutional investor to your effectively

00:37:20:04 - 00:37:24:11
being an entrepreneur and now a capital allocator in this space?

00:37:24:11 - 00:37:28:24
Anything on that journey that has particularly, you know, stood out.

00:37:28:27 - 00:37:30:20
I think

00:37:30:20 - 00:37:34:14
less so now than when I did my first venture,

00:37:34:17 - 00:37:37:17
where it really hit me when I did that, that

00:37:37:19 - 00:37:41:05
when you're on your own, you're on your own and the buck stops with you.

00:37:41:05 - 00:37:42:18
And at the moment on my own,

00:37:42:18 - 00:37:46:00
I'm discussing with different partners and opportunities.

00:37:46:00 - 00:37:48:19
But, but it doesn't feel like I'm on my own.

00:37:48:19 - 00:37:49:16
So I've got a lot of people

00:37:49:16 - 00:37:53:29
surrounding mean different things and kind of supporting me on the sidelines.

00:37:53:29 - 00:37:54:03
Yeah.

00:37:54:03 - 00:37:56:09
So, yeah, it doesn't feel on my own, but I think it's important

00:37:56:09 - 00:38:00:11
to get to that stage where you've built a lot of connections over the years

00:38:00:11 - 00:38:05:03
and you can really tap into that as you venture on your own.

00:38:05:05 - 00:38:05:31
Hey, here.

00:38:05:31 - 00:38:06:06
Yeah, it's

00:38:06:06 - 00:38:08:08
one of the benefits of, of getting on in years

00:38:08:08 - 00:38:10:24
is you've collected a lot of people along the way

00:38:10:24 - 00:38:15:02
and you're the same age as me, but I'm counting myself in that, you know,

00:38:15:05 - 00:38:15:20
network.

00:38:15:20 - 00:38:17:04
Network is your network or whatever it is.

00:38:17:04 - 00:38:21:09
And I, I really value so many people that I've been able to meet into

00:38:21:12 - 00:38:24:15
and grow to admire over the way over the years.

00:38:24:23 - 00:38:27:10
So let's

00:38:27:10 - 00:38:31:06
I think entrepreneurs and investors are going to get so much value

00:38:31:06 - 00:38:32:10
from working with you.

00:38:32:10 - 00:38:35:10
It's quite clear your experience goes a long way

00:38:35:12 - 00:38:39:12
just to sort of start that off as part of the takeaways from this episode,

00:38:39:20 - 00:38:41:10
have you got any particular pearls of wisdom

00:38:41:10 - 00:38:43:24
to impart to the acquisition entrepreneurs?

00:38:43:24 - 00:38:44:31
You know, for example,

00:38:44:31 - 00:38:47:13
what kind of advice could you give them about working with investors?

00:38:47:13 - 00:38:50:29
I've always valued transparency in governance and, you know,

00:38:50:30 - 00:38:52:32
telling it up straight when it's good or bad.

00:38:52:32 - 00:38:56:10
I think that's built a lot of credibility and trust

00:38:56:13 - 00:39:00:12
as opposed to kind of like, you know, just focusing on the good.

00:39:00:15 - 00:39:04:16
And I think that's something I've learned along the route my my life,

00:39:04:19 - 00:39:07:09
where I've always seen that being the way to do it

00:39:07:09 - 00:39:10:11
in the investment world where you have to be transparent.

00:39:10:11 - 00:39:14:10
So I think that's one and, you know, build trust early,

00:39:14:13 - 00:39:18:16
trust capital later and keep on keeping us informed

00:39:18:23 - 00:39:22:22
on how you're developing things and work with people like us

00:39:22:25 - 00:39:25:28
to yes, to to ask us questions on

00:39:25:28 - 00:39:29:09
how to present things or how to approach different things.

00:39:29:10 - 00:39:33:32
Now, you know, so very open to all discussions

00:39:33:32 - 00:39:38:30
and to get to meet acquirers early in the process.

00:39:38:33 - 00:39:41:05
Nice sound advice, sage wisdom.

00:39:41:05 - 00:39:43:02
And on the other side of the coin with investors,

00:39:43:02 - 00:39:44:12
you know, what might they benefit

00:39:44:12 - 00:39:49:03
from knowing about this asset class as it starts to become a bit more mature?

00:39:49:06 - 00:39:53:02
There's definitely a place for it for UK investments

00:39:53:04 - 00:39:56:27
alongside traditional assets.

00:39:56:30 - 00:39:59:16
You know, it's an correlated

00:39:59:16 - 00:40:02:24
focus on cash flows, resilience, attractive entry levels.

00:40:02:24 - 00:40:07:01
And it's, you know, we talk about something like 30% IRR

00:40:07:01 - 00:40:09:08
historically in the US,

00:40:09:08 - 00:40:12:08
but it's also important to remember to diversify

00:40:12:13 - 00:40:14:32
across different operators and sectors in our case.

00:40:14:32 - 00:40:15:14
Sure.

00:40:15:14 - 00:40:17:31
I mean, just to double click on that, you mentioned earlier about, you know,

00:40:17:31 - 00:40:23:13
the inherent concentration risk of the power law and how that's a bit wacky,

00:40:23:16 - 00:40:26:33
but with the diversification of portfolio into these cash flowing assets, you know,

00:40:26:33 - 00:40:30:21
how much diversification should one seek in building their portfolio?

00:40:30:21 - 00:40:33:21
I mean, you know, it's not uncommon for VCs to have 20,

00:40:33:21 - 00:40:37:04
25 companies because one has to return the fund.

00:40:37:12 - 00:40:41:19
Do you need the same spread in in this space?

00:40:41:22 - 00:40:44:22
I think it depends on the risk appetite some people might have.

00:40:44:26 - 00:40:45:21
And and,

00:40:45:21 - 00:40:48:23
you know how much money they have to invest and some people might want

00:40:48:27 - 00:40:52:06
more diversification and some people might want more concentrated bets.

00:40:52:06 - 00:40:54:33
You know, I've had situations in my head fund world

00:40:54:33 - 00:40:57:33
where some portfolios had like 500 names, but they were doing that

00:40:58:00 - 00:41:00:12
kind of like arbitrage opportunities and things like that.

00:41:00:12 - 00:41:04:01
And others had very concentrated investments of one sort, equities

00:41:04:01 - 00:41:07:03
of like two names on one side or not even.

00:41:07:03 - 00:41:09:09
And I think to each their own really.

00:41:09:09 - 00:41:10:27
But the beauty of my model

00:41:10:27 - 00:41:15:09
is that you can pick and choose, you know, you can create your customized portfolio

00:41:15:12 - 00:41:20:00
naturally diversifying as the more you participate in these deals

00:41:20:02 - 00:41:25:18
and you can have your own biases towards from sectors and countries different

00:41:25:21 - 00:41:26:16
or you know, or not.

00:41:26:16 - 00:41:30:31
And I think that's makes it very flexible and attractive for investors.

00:41:31:00 - 00:41:33:05
Yeah, it's the boring buffet.

00:41:33:05 - 00:41:35:09
Exactly.

00:41:35:09 - 00:41:35:17
Cool.

00:41:35:17 - 00:41:39:01
Well, so I ask all our guests

00:41:39:04 - 00:41:43:14
to sort of mentally transport themselves forward 12 months.

00:41:43:15 - 00:41:46:26
God knows that gets here quick, but if we were to talk to you again

00:41:46:26 - 00:41:49:00
in 12 months, what would you like to have achieved

00:41:49:00 - 00:41:53:03
with both Dot, you, Max and the investment club during that time?

00:41:53:05 - 00:41:56:04
Obviously growing the membership with selected parties

00:41:56:04 - 00:41:59:13
and you know, very keeping it quite exclusive and tight.

00:41:59:16 - 00:42:01:21
So that's strictly Egypt's.

00:42:01:21 - 00:42:03:18
I do have a new asshole policy.

00:42:03:18 - 00:42:04:24
I don't know if I can say it on the

00:42:04:24 - 00:42:06:15
on the podcast, but I think that's quite important.

00:42:06:15 - 00:42:11:17
So we're all working together and to benefit everyone

00:42:11:20 - 00:42:14:12
and then, you know, building track record, a good track record,

00:42:14:12 - 00:42:19:19
identifying good deals, reporting obviously on them and closing on them.

00:42:19:19 - 00:42:22:25
And I think, you know, I do have, like I said,

00:42:22:28 - 00:42:25:27
clear ideas on additional verticals within the space

00:42:25:27 - 00:42:31:02
that I tend to rule out with partners and within my company.

00:42:31:02 - 00:42:34:31
So we'll see how we get on with that. But

00:42:34:33 - 00:42:36:09
all exciting. Yeah, fabulous.

00:42:36:09 - 00:42:39:31
It is exciting and made all the better by having a no asshole policy.

00:42:39:31 - 00:42:42:29
I think we're very keen on that.

00:42:42:29 - 00:42:44:13
Good.

00:42:44:13 - 00:42:46:08
So how can people reach you?

00:42:46:08 - 00:42:50:27
What's the best channels and URLs whatever to to fly to?

00:42:50:30 - 00:42:52:03
Yeah, well I'm on LinkedIn.

00:42:52:03 - 00:42:56:01
I think that's where I do most of my, you know, social media.

00:42:56:03 - 00:42:58:10
So LinkedIn becomes less

00:42:58:10 - 00:43:02:29
and less Alexander Tallis Alliance

00:43:02:32 - 00:43:03:26
or otherwise from my

00:43:03:26 - 00:43:07:24
website are Max start solutions and

00:43:07:27 - 00:43:10:25
yeah otherwise get in touch with Gareth and he'll put me in touch with me.

00:43:10:25 - 00:43:12:30
Hopefully there is that absolutely.

00:43:12:30 - 00:43:14:20
I'm more than happy to be the Super Connector,

00:43:14:20 - 00:43:15:24
but we'll also put

00:43:15:24 - 00:43:19:31
all those links in the show notes so that you don't have to have to wait for me.

00:43:19:33 - 00:43:20:18
Great.

00:43:20:18 - 00:43:20:28
Cool.

00:43:20:28 - 00:43:23:24
Well, I mean, that's super exciting and love what you're doing.

00:43:23:24 - 00:43:25:23
I love the content that you are busily putting out

00:43:25:23 - 00:43:28:23
to really informative educational stuff.

00:43:28:25 - 00:43:32:25
It's lovely to see and you've quickly become a strong advocate

00:43:32:28 - 00:43:36:21
for this community and a, you know, a great conduit

00:43:36:21 - 00:43:40:01
for, you know, people that want to explore this asset class.

00:43:40:01 - 00:43:44:13
And so thank you for what you're doing and long may it continue to your successor.

00:43:44:16 - 00:43:48:07
Thanks to you as well for, you know taking a big part in

00:43:48:10 - 00:43:49:27
in my discovery of the asset class.

00:43:49:27 - 00:43:52:27
And I think this has been a wonderful

00:43:52:28 - 00:43:55:18
and needed business to for the community.

00:43:55:18 - 00:43:57:12
So well done on that.

00:43:57:14 - 00:43:59:11
Fabulous Thanks for that High praise.

00:43:59:11 - 00:43:59:25
Good stuff.

00:43:59:25 - 00:44:01:10
Well, Alex, in which case,

00:44:01:10 - 00:44:03:06
I want to put you and you say thank you very much

00:44:03:06 - 00:44:05:11
for all that you have done today on this podcast.

00:44:05:11 - 00:44:06:23
It's been a really interesting

00:44:06:23 - 00:44:10:15
conversation and yeah, we look forward to charting your progress.

00:44:10:18 - 00:44:12:07
Listeners

00:44:12:07 - 00:44:14:16
look forward to seeing you again next week.

00:44:14:16 - 00:44:16:33
And until then, keep on crunching.

00:44:16:33 - 00:44:17:27
That's about.