>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work of the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s and I used to live

in a Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect

on what's happening both to us and around us. This

podcast is meant to help you to take a moment to

stop and to think about where you are, where

you're going, and where your relationship with God

fits into it all. Every week I'll meet a new guest

who tells me about something they experience,

which has changed their lives forever by talking

about the things they wish they'd known at the

time. We'll explore the idea that God is in all

things. And we'll talk about the part that faith

plays in navigating life challenges.

Today I'm speaking to Maria, who works for St.

Beuno's, the Jesuit retreat centre. she speaks

about her experience of studying Islam and

stepping into inter-religious space. I learned a

lot from this conversation and about challenging

misconceptions. So Maria, how did you end up

studying Islam?

>> Maria: So I did my first degree in history at, Queen Mary

University of London, and I actually went into

history thinking that I was going to study 20th

century political history, so fascism,

specifically the Spanish Civil War and the

relations with Nazism and things like that. I

mean, I have a lot of messed up history on my

Spanish side, so that always interested me. And

then I basically took a random class by this

amazing professor on Muhammad to the Ottomans,

which is like the whole of Islamic history. He

just opened the first lecture speaking about the

richness of the Middle East and all of the

different types of people that lived there. and I

was just hooked. And I literally switched all my

classes to that professor's classes, which was

super interesting because I actually hated

mediaeval history before that. I always got really

bad grades on like English mediaeval history. I

just couldn't quite crack it. But for some reason

I just loved studying Middle Eastern history. and

I think also that Spanish connection as well,

because I come from Cordoba, which was Muslim for

700 years.

>> Julia: So what were your views on Islam before you

studied it?

>> Maria: Interesting. I guess we've got to take it back to

my teen years. I went to a state school, Catholic

school, suburbs of London. It was very white, a

lot of casual racism and, and just views about

people different to me were not great, especially

about Muslims. I had this sort of general view

that a lot of the British public hold of like,

violence and extremism and why do women wear

headscarves? And I remember there was a woman on

my road who had the knick up and I used to be

scared of her, which is ridiculous now that I

think about it. But as a kid, like, I didn't know

any better. There's also a Spanish context there

that. So, like, growing up, hearing my mum and my

uncle and my relatives talking about, like, the

Reconquest of Spain and that's quite a big deal,

and the Christianization of Spain and, like, the

Muslims and how they ruled us and it was terrible

and all these sorts of things. And then also I

grew up in a Catholic group in London which also

has that Spanish Italian context. And the rhetoric

there about Muslims was not great. A lot of jokes,

a lot of things said, like, the Islamic God is

different to our God. I sort of grew up with all

those things. and also a child of social media and

the Internet. The algorithm is, you know, it wants

to show you more extreme content. Right. So I

would just end up in polemics that weren't

actually very academic or anything. They were just

random people on the Internet spewing rubbish.

>> Julia: So what did challenge your early views of Islam

and Islamic communities?

>> Maria: I would say the first thing is that I then went to

a different sixth form called St. Dominic's.

Great sixth form.

>> Julia: In Harrow? I went there.

>> Maria: That's crazy. We Both went to St. Dom's?

>> Julia: Yeah. I was actually preparing for this interview

and thinking of what you're about to say, so maybe

I'll let you say that and then I'll finish my

story.

>> Maria: Cool. Big up St. Dom's.

>> Julia: I was basically thinking about how I sat next to

someone who was Muslim and. And how that

challenged my misconceptions about people who were

Muslim. And so I was like, oh, that's so

interesting. Not realising that you'd also gone

to.

>> Maria: The same sixth form and also had exactly the same

experience in my English class. so this sixth

form, although it's Catholic, is quite diverse and

there's a lot of different inter-religious people

there of different faiths, different cultures,

different countries. And basically, like you, I

sat next to a Muslim girl in my English class and

I remember we were studying Khalid Husseini's

book, the, Ah, Kite Runner, and the English

teacher had some weird views, not gonna lie to

you. She would ask the Muslim students in the

class, like, completely inappropriate questions.

And then I would also ask this poor girl next to

me these questions about her faith and quite like

intrusive ones as well, and she would answer Them

with such grace. And, like, she was so humble and

so friendly. And I met so many Muslims at sixth

form like that, so that already started to shift

my gears. And then I went to uni, and when I

switched all my classes to Islamic classes, I was

suddenly surrounded by majority Muslim friends.

Like, it was, I think, one of my classes. I was

the only non Muslim. Everyone else was Muslim. And

they were so nice to me. I learned so much from

them. And, like, I would do stupid things. Like, I

remember I had a ham sandwich and I, like, left

the room to eat it, and they're like, what are you

doing? You can eat your ham sandwich here. Like,

we're not gonna, like, burst into flames from the.

From the smell of a ham sandwich. Like, so. So

many things. And yeah, I could tell you so.

>> Julia: Many stories, but I was in my maths class having

similar experiences, and I used to not thinking

about it. Used to sing to myself while I was doing

my maths. And then I was in the chapel with this

girl, and the chaplain was like, is it okay if we

play music? Because for some Muslims, they're not

allowed to listen to, yeah, Christian music or

Western music, I should say, as well. And I felt

so terrible because I didn't know this. And I had

just been singing at her, like, most of our maths

classes. But she was very great, as you said, very

graceful and very, like, no, no, it's okay. You

didn't know. It's fine. You're just singing. It's

allowed. that and many conversations really,

really challenged me. So then you went on to

university to do Islamic studies. What stood out

to you when you were doing that?

>> Maria: I think the thing that stood out to me was how

varied Islamic history actually is. I had this

idea in my head of, like, you know, the five

pillars of Islam. This is what they believe and

this is what they do. But actually, just like

Christianity, there's so many different

denominations. I mean, from about the mid to late

seven hundreds onwards, you've got opposing Muslim

empires that are fighting each other. And Islam

spreads over all of these different cultures and

across the continent. And it was just so rich and

varied. And also what really interested me was

that for the first 400 years of Islamic rule, the

majority of the population living there actually

remained Christian. Because, you know, you don't

read or write, it's a lot harder to travel. You're

kind of in your village, and conversion was slow.

So actually it develops this really rich

transference of culture and ideas, and people are

adopting different things from different Places,

but it's all really slow.

So I became really interested in the family life

and sexuality in the mediaeval period in the

Middle East. So, for example, when a father

converts to Islam, for whatever reasons, maybe

personal or economic or social reasons, what does

the family life look like? Is the mum still

Christian? Does she pray with her children? In

what language? What is she saying when she prays?

Do the kids names change as well? Because

sometimes you find that they would change their

names to be more Islamic, but they still practise

Christianity at home. And also what that looks

like from a sexuality perspective, because there's

different sexual laws, to do with purity and

things like that. And I just found that so

interesting. I mean, also, there's a lot of shared

spaces. Like, actually, before mosques were built,

there's evidence that Muslims worshipped in

churches or even church courtyards and shared

spaces and shared festivals as well. And that that

lasts so long. Like, even up until the 18th, 19th

century, Palestinian Muslims were still baptising

their children, a slightly different wording. But

because everyone's illiterate, they didn't

theologically necessarily understand it. But, you

know, a priest turns up and they're like,

actually, I can't baptise your kid anymore because

your family's converted. And they're like, what do

you mean? I want. I don't want my kids up evil

spirits. So actually, the priest developed a

slightly different right to still pastorally care

for those people. Wow.

>> Julia: so did your academic study of Islam challenge or

affirm, your own Catholic faith?

>> Maria: I feel like, to answer that, we've got a backtrack

to my own experience of my faith. So, at Queen

Mary, so my first degree, I'd left the church, I

was sort of studying inter-religious history,

probably to try and understand it a lot more and

be like, what did I grow up with? What do I agree

with? What do I not agree with? What do I know

better? You know? And then I had an experience of

really bad anxiety and really challenging mental

health problems. And basically, through various

different reasons, I discovered God. And then a

year forward, I discovered the Eucharist. So by

the time I ended up at Oxford to study Islamic

history, my faith had changed and shifted. So when

I look back at my essays in Queen Mary, they're

very, like, academic, quite legalistic. I mean, in

a fun way, but very academic. But then in Oxford,

they're very much like, asking existential

questions. And you can see in it that, like, my

gears have shifted. I mean, like, I started one of

my essays on humans in The Quran with like, who

are we? How did we get here? Is God involved in

any of this? Which, like, you can't start an

Oxford essay like that, which is probably why I

got marked down. But so in terms of then answering

that question, I think for me it did affirm my

faith actually as a Christian, because although

from my experience and also reading church

documents, I was really into reading Vatican too.

funnily enough, I discovered that actually the

church teaches that Muslims are to be held in high

esteem. Like it says in Nostra Aetate, Muslims are

to be held in high esteem and that they adore the

one God and that we should work together for

mutual understanding, social justice and freedom.

So that really affirmed, like, okay, I'm studying

this for a reason. We can work together. I then

got involved in the Centre for Muslim, and

Christian Studies at Oxford, which is really fun.

And what it affirmed, intellectually for me was

that we have a lot of the same principles. I do

believe that Jesus Christ is God and is the son of

God. And became incarnate to save me. And I didn't

have to get closer to God through the law or

through like finding myself or anything like that,

but that he loved me like in the pit of death,

like at my lowest point, Christ died for me and

rose again. And that's really important to me.

Whereas there isn't that in, in Islam. and also

this concept of loving your enemies. There is a

section in the Quran which does say that God can

bring together enemies and make them love each

other, but there isn't a command to love your

enemies and pray for your enemies. And that again,

because my history has really touched me and

that's why I'm a Christian. Sam.

>> Julia: I want to go back to your talking about the Quran

because I don't think a lot of people in this

country will have even looked at a Quran, let

alone have read it. And you read the Quran and the

Bible. So how did that change your view of

scripture?

>> Maria: When I was working with the Centre for Muslim and

Christian Studies, what I did basically was I

worked with a fellow Muslim colleague and we would

do shared scriptural readings, where we would

choose a theme, like love or money or war or the

weather or climate change or whatever it was. And

we would bring, we would choose three passages

from our own scripture and bring it and analyse it

with a group of people. and it wasn't supposed to

try and convert the other person, the other group.

It wasn't supposed to like evangelise. it was just

to kind of be with each other and see that

actually we've got very similar themes. so that

was really fruitful, thing that I did, for me,

anyway. And then in terms of kind of academic

studying of both things, I guess because I believe

that the Word was made flesh and that the Bible

is, you know, it's the word of God and it's. It's

alive and it's. It speaks to me, it has something

to say to me. Whereas I don't believe that about

the Quran. I was. Even with the interfaith

training I'd had, and also I was also part of

something called the Love and Religion project at

my college. I was able to still approach the Quran

with, you know, respect and I believe very similar

things. What I will say is that the Bible is much

bigger. The Quran is actually quite small in

comparison. But it doesn't mean it's easier to

read because the Bible is like, it's a collection

of different genres. You've got poems in there,

you've got letters, you've got chronological data,

narratives, you've got legends, visions. Whereas

the Quran is quite different in the sense that

it's supposed to be sung. So almost like the

psalms, that's what the Quran is like. So

actually, from an academic perspective, I found it

very difficult to read because my Arabic's not

very good. And it's much more beautiful in Arabic

because of that singing element. But because of

that singing element, it jumps topic. So if you

want to discover a theme or, for example, if you

want to look at a figure or a prophet or something

in the Quran, you've got to jump around loads of

different sections. Whereas in the Bible it's much

more. This chapter is this and this book is this.

All the themes do relate to. It's a little bit

different.

>> Julia: I just want to ask, what is the Love and Religion

project that you mention?

>> Maria: So the Love and Religion project is a project at,

Regent's Park College, which is my college,

Oxford, and basically they just wanted to explore

the theme of love in religion. And it was mainly

Abrahamic, so they had Jewish scholars, Muslim

scholars and Christian scholars. And they bring

together their research on this theme of love,

again, as like a common point and where we go from

there and why that's important. I mean, it's

funded by. Part of the funding comes from

Jordanian royalty. So there is, like a really

important connection there for the wider global

scene.

>> Julia: That sounds very interesting.

Talking of Jordan, I believe you spent some time

there.

>> Maria: What was that like, yeah, so my master's was two

years. And in that summer, they really encouraged

us to go to an Arabic speaking country for obvious

reasons. Arabic is so hard. I actually failed my

first Arabic Arabic exam. So I failed my first

year, which was really humiliating. So I

desperately needed to go to Jordan and it was

fantastic. Some of my best memories, I had an

amazing Arabic teacher, who was actually an

engineer for Royal Jordanian Airlines and ba, but

his wife had a language school and she was more

into the speaking side of it. But she found that

more and more students were coming from the west

to do, like, hardcore theological Arabic. And she

was like, okay, we need to bring in Waleed, my

husband. He would read, like, hadith just to read

it. He was really into it. So basically he taught

me. And he was hardcore. He was, like, strict and,

like, a lot of content. But he explained it in a

way that I just didn't understand from my teachers

at Oxford, and it really helped me. And then also

his family was so welcoming to me. Like, I know

the cliche, the Middle east is very hospitable.

Everyone, you know, is ingrained in their culture,

but it really is, like, they would just invite me

to their house all the time and bring me food and

were super friendly. And I met the whole, like,

extended family. And then also the same thing with

my landlady, Reema, who was a very eccentric

woman, but again, like, she would invite all of us

girls that lived in the flat to our house every

Friday. Super welcoming. Like a whole feast just

for breakfast. and I learned so much from them

about hospitality, about friendship, and also

about how people who are Muslim that live in a

Muslim majority country actually live their faith

and the different levels of devoutness as well.

another thing that I want to mention is actually

that I think my previous views about women in

Islam were quite negative, especially when I was a

teenager and sort of started to learn about these

things. But in Jordan, obviously it's

interpretation dependent and there's different

countries that have different laws. But in Jordan,

there's a real emphasis on respecting the woman

and respecting the family. And there's really

strong family values. And even though I had to

dress very modestly and in different parts of

Amman, like, I would roll down my sleeves

depending if I was walking into a more

conservative area or not. I did feel quite

respected as a woman. And I also found those

single sex spaces quite healing. Even silly

things, like, I was always scared to go to the gym

because I felt very objectified in the uk and I

felt silly and all these strong men in the weight

section and I can't. And they're just staring at

me and. But they had different hours for men and

women, which was fantastic. Like, I got so strong.

I would chat to these, like, normal women, normal

Muslim women in this gym. And it was fantastic.

And there was no men. It was great.

>> Julia: I do understand that whole thing of feeling

intimidated by men in the gym. And what was it

like when you returned back to the uk?

>> Maria: A. My Arabic was much improved. I actually felt

like I was getting somewhere. I could finish my

degree, not fail it. I also. I think Jordan,

especially Aman, is actually quite modern and

they've got, you know, all the stuff we have here,

like big supermarkets and shopping centres and all

that sort of stuff. So it wasn't so much like a

culture shock of returning home. I left actually,

with a lot of friends and a lot of funny stories.

Like the eggs in Jordan are labelled vegan because

there's just a mistranslation there. Vegetarian

vegan, which is just quite funny. Also, like being

at my teacher's house and he's got, like, a

cigarette in hand and he's pouring all the coffee

and he's like, I'm actually quit smoking. I'm

like, you're holding a cigarette. Like, it's just.

Or like the doctors, they're all smoke.

>> Maria: So funny stories mainly. But one of the things

that I did encounter in Jordan is basically, it's

one of the first places that refugees go from the

surrounding countries. I actually volunteered a

bit with the Jesuit refugee service. That was my

first encounter with the Jesuits, actually. And I

heard their stories and I met their suffering. And

also I lived on a road that was mainly Iraqi

Christians that had escaped from isis. And also

the church group that I was a part of, half of

them were Jordanian, but half of them were

Palestinian. So hearing their stories, they stood

in front of you, like, talking about their

experiences. It's not just something that you're

reading. I came back with, you know, a real sense

that I'd heard these people suffering and that had

somehow changed how I viewed the world and. Or,

affirmed actually how I viewed the world even more

so. And when I'm talking to people here about

world conflicts and refugees, I can talk about

these people's stories, stories otherwise. But

it's not often you get to encounter someone in

front of you who's telling you how they suffered,

how their family suffered.

>> Julia: I always find that when you have people's stories

and you're having a discussion with someone who

might have some misconceptions when you can

actually share someone's story that you've met,

that always challenges both you and them and

develops that conversation much deeper than it

would have if you were just talking about general

facts 100%.

>> Maria: And it also actually affirmed my academic

endeavours to look at real people. I mean, the

elites that were writing in the mediaeval period,

also real people, but like the family life and

what everyday people are doing and the peasants

and like the people walking around in the market.

I think their stories and their history is so

important to, like, figuring out our purpose and

our purpose regarding others and how we relate to

people. and I think meeting families in Jordan and

them being so welcoming and hearing their stories

of suffering just really affirmed sort of what I

was doing intellectually.

>> Julia: So when you got back from Jordan, what were you

doing intellectually?

>> Maria: I was doing my last year of my master's, so

actually the main thing that I did that year was

my main project, which was on a 10th century

sexuality manual from Baghdad.

>> Julia: I want to know how you ended up with that as a

topic.

>> Maria: So for my undergrad dissertation, I came across

this manual called the Joami Aladda. And I was

like, okay, that's cool. And then when I went to

Oxford, they were like, don't choose a topic,

don't choose a theme. You need to find a source or

an author and do that. So I was like, okay, well,

obviously I'll just do this manuscript because

it's super cool. But the problem is it's 400

pages, so it's not like a few pages that you can

analyse. It's like, so chockablock, full of

content. And also, what's interesting about it is

we're not sure if it was written by a Christian or

a Muslim. And I tried to really delve into that.

And I still don't know if he's Christian or

Muslim. In fact, he might have been Shia Muslim,

which just. There was now three options. Oh, wow.

So, but that was interesting because this guy was

writing for the sultan. How does that affect the

general population? And what does it reveal to us

about what people at the time were doing with

their sexuality in ethics and practise?

>> Julia: It does sound really interesting.

Now, I would guess for most people probably

conception that sexuality is just something that

faiths don't talk about. Like, particularly in the

Christian church. It's kind of, a. It's kind of

something that's kept behind doors, but instead of

avoiding it, you kind of lent right into it. So

how do you approach topics of sexuality in

different faiths and across faiths.

>> Maria: Well, I think I went into it with my own hang ups

about Christian sexuality and what I'd learned

growing up in the church. That's why I was so

interested in it, I guess. And I guess studying a,

ah, different religion to my own makes it a bit

easier to accept. I mean, I ended up studying a

lot of mediaeval Christian sexuality just because

the nature of interfaith studies, that's how I

ended up in it. Also, sexuality is one of the most

fundamental human ways of loving the other. And if

I believe in that theological side of sexuality

and, you know, the altar of marriage and it's

supposed to be a taste of heaven, then going with

that perspective was really quite interesting. And

also in the mediaeval period, everyone just

believed in God. So it's a given that your sexual

ethics and practise, even though you might deviate

or like, do what you want, that, that basis there,

that God exists and that influences every single

thing you do in your life, is a lot more evident

in mediaeval texts about sexuality. So their sex

lives weren't separate from God, they were

intertwined. and actually in this manuscript I was

looking at and loads of other texts, it's like,

how does God bless this? I mean, the author starts

off saying that like, this carnal union is to

please God and may God bless the words I'm about

to write about sexuality. So they weren't shying

away from it as much as we are.

>> Julia: So you said you were studying it in a faith that

wasn't your own, the Muslim faith.

What do you think are some of the misconceptions

from Christianity about people, who are Muslim and

about Muslim modesty or inter-religious practises?

>> Maria: I think one of the main things is that back then

all women veiled So Christian women also would

have had a headscarf as well as Muslim women and

Jewish women. I mean, you look at, ah, Mary in our

own tradition and she has her head scarf, people

would have dressed quite similarly. People would

have had similar levels of modesty. So I think

that's a big misconception. And something that I

found really beautiful for my own faith is when I

was in Jordan and I'd visit churches, especially

Orthodox churches, I'd cover my hair. And also in

Oxford, I lived in an Orthodox house and I would

quite often go to the Russian Orthodox liturgy and

I'd cover my hair like the other women did there

for the church liturgy. And it was a very

beautiful experience. And in The Catholic group

that I go to, the church, the parish I go to, no

one covers their hair. So it'd be really weird to

just whip out a veil. so I don't do it, but

actually on my wedding day that's, I really want

to look for a veil that covers my hair because I'm

very interested in that.

>> Julia: Do you think women in Christianity that don't

cover their hair are missing out?

>> Maria: I don't think that they're missing out because,

you know, we've got our own understanding and

interpretation from the church of whether or not

you should veil. And it's really an individual

thing. But I do think there is something about

putting on the veil, entering the church and it's

like a very physical embodiment of submission to

God. And I guess in Islam you do that everywhere

you go because there's other modesty implications

in general society that there aren't in

Christianity as much anymore. I wouldn't say

they're missing out, you know, but I think it's an

interesting thing to sort of discover that

actually I didn't feel oppressed. I felt very

like, wow, this is so special.

>> Julia: I guess that's a quite common then misconception.

So what would you say to people who do have a

stereotypical misconception of Islam or Muslim

people?

>> Maria: I would say that, Muslims are just normal people.

You know, they're just living their lives.

Whatever culture you come from or the denomination

in Islam that a family comes from is going to

shape their views and their ways of living out

their faith. I would say that Muslims in this

country, from a fundraising perspective and a

charity perspective, donate way more to charity

than even Christians do. Like the stats back that

up and they do a lot of good for the community

with food banks and all sorts of things going on.

I mean, I had a friend, her local, mosque during

Ramadan. I didn't see her because there was a food

bank every single day and they would break the

fast not only with fellow Muslims, but they would

cook extra food and give it out on the streets.

Like, I'm not saying that there's no problems with

understanding each other and like assimilation and

different interpretations of faith. I'm not saying

that there's no issues there, but I think there is

a lot of misunderstanding about that. And I think

that the emphasis on family life is so beautiful.

>> Julia: You were you were saying about the food banks and

I think some of the, the greatest examples I've

seen of inter-religious work are when you have

different faith centres Running a different night

shelter every night. So one night it might be the

Catholic church, the next night it might be the

mosque, the next night it might be the synagogue.

And it's just a beautiful example of how faiths

can work together to have that practical way of

putting their faith into action. Would you

encourage people to work more in the

inter-religious space?

>> Maria: Yes, I would. Because I think it's really

important to understand the other and to

understand people that are different from you and

what their views are and what you can both do

together to make the world a better place to use

that cliche. I also do think it's important

though, from an interfaith perspective that as a

Christian, I'm not going in to try and convert the

other person. I'm accepting them as they are and

we're having fruitful dialogue and doing fruitful

projects, as you said, like running food banks and

homeless shelters. And if the agenda goes further

than that, than that, that makes me a bit uncomfy.

even though actually I come from a Catholic group

that is very much about proselytising. But I don't

know, it's just so important. Like, you know, I'm

not going to go to my teacher's house in Jordan

and they're so friendly to me and just start being

like, you have to believe in Jesus Christ or

you're damned. Like I'm not going to do that, you

know, because actually the church teaches that

they are our brothers and sisters under God to be

held in high esteem and to work for social justice

and freedom together. And like, I always fall back

on that. So.

>> Julia: Yeah, yeah, I agree. When you step into that

inter-religious space, it's important to be open

and showing the love of God. But by doing that in

a way that you witness Jesus and living out your

faith.

So what do you wish you knew before you stepped

into the inter-religious space and before you

studied Islam?

>> Maria: I wish I just knew that there was so much

carryover. I wish I knew that, the majority of the

population at the time when Islam came around was

still Christian and there was so much interfaith

carryover. And I wish I knew that like during

human history there's times of violence. Yes. But

there's also times of peace and there's also just

times of like getting along and just living life

and like you're both in the same marketplace and

like you might not like each other, but you just

do it. I also wish I knew that the Islamic God

also smiles. And the reason I say that is because

at uni, we studied this, 13th century theologian

that wrote this whole thing on like, does God

laugh? And from an Islamic perspective, it's

interesting because you might accidentally be

putting human attributes on God. But his

conclusion was that God does laugh. And I just

think it's quite nice to think that our God

smiles.

>> Julia: That is nice.

And talking of smiling, what are you grateful for?

>> Maria: I think I'm very grateful for all the

opportunities I've had because, you know, my

Oxford degree was really expensive, but I got nine

scholarships and sometimes I feel a bit guilty

because I'm not currently in the academic world

and I didn't do as well as I wanted to do. But I'm

just so grateful that I had that opportunity to be

there and to learn so much and be in a space of

research. I'm also so grateful that I got to go to

Jordan again on a scholarship and meet so many

different people. I have so many different groups

of friends now as a result that enrich me. I'm

just so grateful for all those opportunities. And

I'm also grateful to God for everything that he's

done for me and how he provides.

>> Julia: Thanks for listening to Things I Wish I Knew.

What's going to stay with me from this episode is

the importance of inter-religious work. How about

you? We love to hear how Maria's story resonated

with you. And, why not also tell us if you're

facing an experience you wish you knew how to look

at differently? It might just be something we can

help with. And you can find out about this theme

and others by going to thinkingfaith.org. Thank

you again for listening and I hope you'll join me

again next time on Things I Wish I Knew.