The Weight of What Could Not Be Thrown Away: Growing Up with a Hoarder
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Nneka: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Behind the 90. With Nika, where we go beyond the surface to uncover the stories, struggles, and strengths that shape who we are. Today's episode is one that speaks to both pain and resilience. We'll be diving into a powerful conversation about the trauma of growing up in a home that hoarded and the lifelong impact it can have on a child's sense of safety, self-worth and love. My guest, Angie, lived through this reality in her household. Now as an adult, she courageously opening up about her journey from the chaos of clutter. To clarity of healing, this episode may be triggering for those who've experienced hoarding or emotional neglect.

So please listen with care and compassion for yourself. [00:01:00] Together we'll explore the emotional weight of growing up in a survival mode, what forgiveness can look like after trauma, and how reclaiming peace begins. From the inside out. Let's begin this important conversation with honesty, empathy, and hope.

Before we get started, I wanna define what hoarding behavior is. Hoarding behavior refers to a persistent difficulty discarding or parting with possessions regardless of their actual value due to a perceived need to save them. It's more than just clutter or collecting. It's a psychological pattern that can cause significant distress and interfere with daily living.

Today my guest, Angie has, so much courage to bring awareness to this topic because I'm sure there are other people that have [00:02:00] experienced a loved one that may hoard or you yourself may have challenges with hoarding. So this is a very sensitive topic. I will definitely handle it with care.

Welcome, Angie. Thank you so much for being a guest again on the show. I really appreciate your dedication to spreading awareness on very important topics. So often we shy away from talking about things like this because we don't want judgment, you know?

Mm-hmm. But I think in order for us to heal and rise above the pain. We have to talk about these things, so how, how do you feel today being here?

Angie: I'm excited and I just wanna say thanks again for having me. I definitely I think. My whole journey is definitely to be able to share so I can help others.

So I'm excited. It is a tough topic for sure, but I'm excited to dive in and to help others who may have struggled or had someone who they know struggle [00:03:00] with it.

Nneka: Okay. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Like I said, and I don't take for granted you taking the time to talk about this. I couldn't do it without, without you.

, Let's just jump right into it. When did you first realize that your home environment was different from other children's?

Angie: I think at first when I was younger it wasn't as bad when I was younger, but. As I got older, I would say more so around like nine, 10 when I used to be able to go visit my other friends, I would look and I'm like, wow.

Their household is definitely different from my household. Like there was. Living room, dining room, just everything was put in place. And I noticed as I got older, it just seemed like there was always paper bags or just different things that normal homes wouldn't have. Okay. So that's when I really started to know like, okay, there is a difference.

There is a difference [00:04:00] here from my living opposed to my friends and, and other people that I know, or family members that I know that aren't struggling or didn't have a hoarder in the household. Okay.

Nneka: Do you mind sharing who was the hoarder in your household? Yes, my mother. It was your mother?

Yes. Yeah. So can you tell me what kind of relationship did you have with her? Before you noticed that it was an issue, what kind of a relationship did you have with your mom?

Angie: When I was a kid, like the attachment that I had with my mother was very close. Like I had a very close, relationship with my mom because my dad, he was always the one who was working and taking care of things, you know, on the outside.

And my mother was that person at home. She may have worked like a part-time job here and there, but she was the main, you know, making sure everything was taken care of at home. So our relationship in the beginning was a good relationship I would feel between mother and daughter.

Nneka: Okay. Was she the type of mother that, [00:05:00] you know, taught you how to do chores around the house?

Did you see her doing things around the house, like cooking and cleaning? Did you witness that?

Angie: Yes. Growing up I did witness that, which would probably be shocking because she would clean up and she would do small things around the house, but it was only to a certain limit. It wasn't like she was going into in depth cleaning around the house, but it was just like the necessary stuff, like washing the clothes, cooking dinner maybe straightening up the table here or there.

But like I said, until I got older, I really started to notice what it was, but. Being a younger kid, you just thought, oh, just the regular, normal stuff, you know, she would mop, she would, you know, do vacuum here or there, but it was only in the, the space that she had that she could use and not the areas that were cluttered.

Nneka: Okay. So she started, so it wasn't so much of a cleanliness. Issue. Right, right. It was more of just a collecting, a collecting and just [00:06:00] kind of clutter things kept being cluttered around the house. Yeah. Kind of like packing away almost. Okay. Yeah. So did it start in just like one room or was it just kind of, she had spaces all over the house.

How did it start? If you can remember as you got older and you, you, you had come to kind of realize, oh, this is different from what I've experienced with my friends. Like what age was that when you saw. A difference? Well, I would say when

Angie: I was younger, it probably had to be like five or six. I remember my current room being cluttered and I remember my parents' room being cluttered, those were like the main rooms.

Nneka: Mm-hmm.

Angie: The living room, the dining room. The dining room had stuff, but it wasn't like to the point of of, to capacity. It wasn't like that. It was like maybe odds or ends in certain spots. Mm-hmm. But the main rooms that. I can remember from probably like the age of five or six was their room and my room as being the area of like, kind of like stuffing away, putting stuff.[00:07:00]

Those were the rooms that had the, the start of the clutter or the start of like packing where I know stuff was being packed away or in bags. Okay. Yeah. What type of things were being packed away from? I guess from going from then to now, it could just be clothes, it could be papers, it could be papers from me being at school.

Like it could be stuff from kindergarten all the way until maybe like middle school, just papers of like. Newspapers, magazines just different stuff, clothes. Those were like the main things that I knew that was like being hoarded like back then, I didn't know that it was hoarding, but that now knowing that it's hoarding, those were like the main items that were being hoarded.

Those would be like, I would say the bulk of items.

Nneka: Yeah. So you five and six, you start to notice, like you said, [00:08:00] just the packing things away in your room. Yeah. And in your parents' room. Did, did you ever ask your mom, I mean, you're pretty young, so at what point did you start asking questions? What, at what, at what age did it kind of come to you to say, at what age did you become curious about it?

Angie: Okay. So I would say because during this time we ended up moving from our apartment to a townhouse. So when we got the townhouse. A lot of the stuff from the apartment did get thrown away, like stuff that we didn't need and things like that. And of course coming from a smaller apartment to a bigger space, it was like for me being younger.

'cause at the time my brother was born, so we needed more space anyways. So I would say between the age of probably going into 10 and older, that's when I started to see, okay, the townhouse went from one state where it was like. Just the essential things that we needed. 'cause like I said, from the [00:09:00] apartment, a lot of things got thrown away.

Okay. And stuff got put into the basement. So maybe that might've been why I didn't really notice. But I would say around the age 10 or 11, when we did finally move into the townhouse, I started to notice that the space that we once had now was beginning to be cluttered again. And so now I'm adding it up like, okay, how are we going from the living room and the dining room being.

Barely nothing to now all these bags again, like where is this stuff coming from? It would slowly go from like bags under the table to papers and stuff on top of the table. And I remember being a kid, I used to always be like, you know, I would love to set the table for dinner. 'cause we used to do that.

Like I would like to set up the table for dinner so that by the time my dad got home he could come sit down at the table and. After years, it was like there was no room [00:10:00] to even put anything on the table anymore. The table was consumed with mail, paper, newspaper, books, like there was not a dining room table anymore.

And that's when I started to realize like there is something deeper because when we tried to clean it up, it was a fight to clean it up. And I didn't start to understand like, what is the issue? Why can't we just throw away? This is old,

Nneka: right?

Angie: And so, you know, kind of just to kind of sum it up, that was that eyeopener for me.

Like, okay, there is a bigger issue now and now that I'm getting older. I want my friends over. I wanna have company. And I'm noticing, yeah, my friends' houses are not the same as like how my house is. So me wanting to clean up is now causing triggers for her 'cause she's like. I'm not throwing away my stuff.

Mm. But it's like, I want company, I wanna have people over. Mm-hmm. So I think that's really when stuff [00:11:00] started to kick in and I still didn't know that it was hoarding. I just was like, why won't you throw it away? What's the issue?

Nneka: What's the big deal?

Angie: But still, even in that moment. Vacuuming, mopping, that stuff was still being done.

So it wasn't mentally, it wasn't connecting as like, what is this issue? You know? Like I said, once again, that was until I found out when I got older what it was.

Nneka: So, I wanna go back a little bit. You talked about when you, and I guess another family member tried to kind of clean things up. Mm-hmm. There was a reaction.

What was the reaction when you tried to clean things up from your mom? The reaction was, I

Angie: need this stuff. It was like, oh no, I need that. And then if we will, mom, this is old. You know, this is old. No, I need that. And it's like this newspaper could have been dated back to 1999. Why do you need that? For some reason, everything was a sentimental value to her and to us.

Okay. Who's living in the household? It was [00:12:00] like. This can go and, and it, it was like trying to just understand, like I said, I think mentally it is like, it's confusing because it's like, what is the need for this? We don't need this. Yeah. So, yeah.

Nneka: So you say you had a brother because you're, you're the oldest.

So you had a younger brother.

Angie: Mm-hmm.

Nneka: And you had your dad. Yeah. How did they respond to what was happening?

Angie: I think for them, my dad, he just always contribute to, like, your mother likes to hold on to stuff. He don't, I don't think he knew or my brother, 'cause my brother was of course younger, but. I don't think my dad even knew the right term of what it was either.

Mm-hmm. He just knew your mom can't let go of stuff. My brother, I think once he got older, he started to realize, okay, there's an issue here too. But I don't think it affected him as much as it affected me.

Nneka: Okay.

Angie: And for me it was like way deeper because I was older and I was wanting to have that life of just, [00:13:00] you know, enjoying, you know.

Being a middle school, high school person and, and, and just having friends over and, and having that luxury, because if I can go over to somebody else's house, how can I explain, oh, you can't come over mine. Yeah. And at one point I did have company because I used to try to do like a mask clean, but when I knew that the fighting and trying to go back and forth, I just knew it was, it wasn't worth, it wasn't worth the back and forth.

After so long, I gave up. I gave up. I was like, you know what? I'm just not gonna have company. I'm just gonna just chalk it up as this is what it

Nneka: is. Did your friends ever ask why or did they come over and it was just an unspoken thing? They just knew When they did come over, they saw that it was a lot of clutter and they just kinda.

Gave you an out and not pressed you about coming to your home. Yeah.

Angie: I think it was that unspoken thing. It was like, this is different, but we're not gonna mention that 'cause it's our friends. That's right. But I think it was that [00:14:00] unspoken. I think the friends that I did have over, they just knew it was something different, but it was like, we're not gonna mention it.

And I didn't wanna mention it, and so that's just what it was, you know?

Nneka: Yeah. Do you feel like the hoarding, that you encountered with your mom as a young person, did it interfere with your relationship because you would think mother, daughter go shopping, you're doing things together. Did it impact your relationship in terms of being, spending time together?

Yes. It started to,

Angie: And I think this is the hard part, because it did, it started to make me feel like. I was pulling back from her. I was pulling back from her because I felt like you're hurting me, and she didn't see it.

Nneka: Okay.

Angie: And it's like, I'm hurting because you don't understand that this stuff is hurting our family.

Because now my room is confined with [00:15:00] stuff. Now their room, once again is confined with stuff like at how it was at the apartment. But now it goes deeper. The basement is confined with stuff. The living room, everything is like packed into 'cause in a townhouse you don't have but so much space. So it is like.

Tight. It is like you have just enough room to walk and go to different spaces, but it's not room to be comfortable. So that started to make me disconnect from my mom. I started to look at her a certain way, and I think everything from then on just caused a trigger. It was just like I was automatically like.

One little thing and it triggered me like I would be upset about one little thing, you know, each time. Yeah. It was just like every small, little, minor, little thing. It just instantly, I just was, was uncomfortable or irritated.

Nneka: Okay. So the relationship couldn't necessarily flourish because there was such a, a [00:16:00] hyper fixation on her things, whether it was magazines and papers and, you know, saving things from your childhood that she could not part with.

So. But in terms of your, how did it, did you maintain good friends? Because, and when you think about a friendship, it's when you're that age, it's that exchange, you know, I'm coming over to your house, you went over to my house. What was, what happened there? Did you lose friendships because you weren't able to?

Reciprocate the relationship by whether it was, whether it was a sleepover, whether it was coming over for dinner, like how did those friendship, did those friendships suffer? As a result of your living situation?

Angie: I don't really feel like my friendships had suffered which was, was a good thing 'cause a lot of people were just like, you know, they just chalked it up to what it was.

It just, for me, it just made me sink in more because I just felt like I would like to not be the only [00:17:00] person just always going to everybody else's house. I would love for somebody to come and visit. But no, honestly, none of my relationships suffered. I think people just genuinely loved who I was, the close friends that I had, and they just were willing to just, you know, take it for what it was, you know?

Nneka: But outside of that, what type of person was your mother outside of the hoarding? How would you describe her personality?

Angie: My mother, she's just a sweet, loving person. She's willing to care and help anyone at any time. My mother is very soft spoken. She's very funny. She has, she just has that very caring and loving personality, and that was kind of hard because it was like.

For her to, to, I would think she would recognize the hurt by her always loving and caring and wanting to, to other people to understand and, and, and just, you know, that understanding and caring for, [00:18:00] for others, I would think she would care for me the same way and, and, and wanna fix the issue. But it was like, you know, it's like, mom, you are this person, but why can't you just be that for me?

You know, which. She's a great mother, you know, overall she's a, a great mother. Mm-hmm. But that part really tore our relationship up and I don't think she just knew it. Yeah. I don't think she recognized it. Yeah. Because she's a sweet, loving, caring person, but she just didn't know how to get the help or didn't even know how much it was affecting us.

Mm-hmm. She didn't realize it.

Nneka: Right. What other ways did it affect you in terms of psychologically did it impact you? Emotionally, psychologically, you know, growing up in a, in a household that where someone hoarded, how did it impact you that way?

Angie: I would say mentally I was hoarding thoughts. Wow.

Hoarding thoughts. It wasn't stuff because now in my own house, I'm quick to throw [00:19:00] up something out. I'm quick to be like, oh, I don't need it. If it's clothes, I'd be quick to donate it. If it's stuff that I don't need, I can clean a spot out. But the hoarding transfer to me in my thoughts. I would hold on to things.

I would not be able to forgive others. It was hoarding of thoughts that affected me. Versus hoarding of things.

Nneka: That's interesting. So would you say that it, it kind of, so you say you're hoarding thoughts, whether it's unforgiveness, whether it's ruminating on mm-hmm. You know, someone. Treating you poorly.

Mm-hmm. Ending relationships without being, like you said, you're hoarding thoughts, you're not able to release those and work through, so you're not even looking to even work through anything. Right. Because I'm just gonna hoard these thoughts and, 'cause it's almost like my protection. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

You've gotten you accustomed to that. Did you suffer any anxiety and depression? Yes.

Angie: Even as I got [00:20:00] older, just I didn't know that that was what it was, but. Anxiety and depression hit me heavy. And I, once I could understand and got the diagnosis of what it was like, okay, I'm suffering from these things.

And I guess, and, and what's crazy is that all of it is in connection, you know, without even really realizing it.

Nneka: Okay. Yeah. So today, so I, I'm gonna go kind of like back and forth. Mm-hmm. So you have, like you said, you come from a two-parent household. So you have your, your loving father who just probably adores and love your mom.

Yes. And didn't necessarily want to challenge what was what he was seeing. Mm-hmm. Did you ever see him challenge the behavior at all?

Angie: It wasn't more so like challenge, but what we would try to do, like if my mom wasn't there, 'cause my dad was very vocal about. Why do you keep collecting [00:21:00] stuff? But there wasn't a plan of like, how can we attack this plan of trying to fix it?

And that's why I think back then therapy wasn't talked about like how therapy is now. Like I, I'm thankful that therapy is definitely more talked about so that people can get help for these situations. But back then I don't think my dad knew that she needed therapy. Right. But what we would do is when she wasn't home, we would just clean up ourselves and she.

Would get home and be like, I know somebody moved my stuff.

Nneka: She could tell that.

Angie: She could tell, but that was the only way that we could survive in that moment, me and my dad. And then once my brother got a little older and kind of understood, he would help. But we had to because if not, we would've been buried and stuff.

Like that's really what it was. So your room was not your room really? No. Mm-hmm. Majority of the stuff in my room was my mother's.

Nneka: Okay.

Angie: Yeah. The closet [00:22:00] was all her stuff. Boxes in my room was her stuff. Yeah, I tried to just make as much space for my things as I could, but majority of the things in there was hers.

Nneka: Yeah. So what was the reaction? You mentioned, you know, when she would leave, that you guys would throw things out. Because again, you guys didn't know how deep that those connections were to those things. What was her reaction when she would come home and you guys had thrown some things out?

Angie: She would be upset and now that would be the time.

My mom would be upset. She would be upset and she would pinpoint certain things that she couldn't find, and she'd be like, I know you guys threw it away. I know you guys threw it away. And we were like, mom, that could have been anywhere. But she just knew, right? Because it is, I think that middle pattern of like something throw thrown out.

So something very important is in the trash. And my mom would, she would be upset. She would be upset [00:23:00] and she would even say sometimes before she left the house, like, please don't touch my stuff. I'm gonna clean it up. I'm gonna clean it up. And we knew she wasn't gonna come back and clean it up, but I think my dad got to that point of like, I don't wanna fight.

I don't wanna argue. I think we all got to that point at one point of like, we're just gonna not touch it, but whatever. Back then, whatever we could throw away, back when my dad did have that energy and that fight to try to. Fix it. He would. He would throw stuff away when she wasn't there. And it sounds harsh, but it was like if we didn't it, we would be suffocating in that stuff.

Nneka: Yeah. Would you categorize it as mild, moderate, or severe? Hoarding? I would say,

I would say between moderate and severe. Okay. Because. By us cleaning it up. We don't necessarily know how bad it could have got. We know it could have got there, but by [00:24:00] us cleaning it up, it kind of, it kind of may have, you know, it, it could have, I would say it could have got to a severe point, but because we were trying to counteract it and, and, and basically diffuse it, yeah, as much as we could.

It was more as a moderate, when I was living there, it was moderate. So I would say between moderate and severe, because if we would've continued as we did at some point, it could have got worse, you know? And even when we stopped, you know, even when we had that pause, she was still bringing in stuff and, and, and.

It was kind of hard because sometimes we would stop and not clean up, and then sometimes we would be fed up with it and, and then we would throw stuff away. It was like an up and down. It was just an up and down, but we just, I think trying to keep the peace in the household at some form. Mm-hmm. But

it was difficult.

Yeah. So that had become somewhat normal, not that you wanted hoarding to become normal, but when was there, was there ever times. [00:25:00] Well, I should probably ask when were there times where things were just, you could just relax and exhale. Were there, were there times that you could just do that for yourself when you were living in the home?

When I wasn't at home, that was the only time. That was the only time. So when you, yeah, when I wasn't at home. Okay. So when you were in the home, the feelings

Angie: were Yeah, I was flustered. 'cause it was like, I don't feel like I have nowhere to really go. Yeah. And even in my room, I couldn't feel comfortable.

Nneka: Because it really wasn't your room. Yeah. Is where you laid your head to sleep. How did you even sleep? How did you sleep in that space? Because like you said, you know, you becoming a teenager, you wanna make the space your own, but you weren't able to do that. So as a teenager you kind of, do you feel like you missed some, some growing steps because things were just kinda at a halt because you weren't able necessarily to spread, really spread your wings in that space.

Angie: Yeah. What I did actually, which [00:26:00] is kind of interesting, I would put. Things on my wall. I would put pictures of like cars and homes and just different things that I wanted for myself, and I would put it on the wall. And that was, I guess, semi part of like peace for me because I knew one day I'm gonna have a home that looks like this.

I know one day I'll be able to drive a car like this. And sometimes you just have to, when you're in a space, you just have to dream for more, even though you see what you're living in. So in my room was my bed. I had a tv, I had a dresser with my stuff, and everything else was my mom's. I had a little radio.

I would listen to my music, but my piece would just be my wall posting stuff on my wall and knowing that one day I'll have these things because my current situation I'm not comfortable in. But I've always wanted a house that I could be able to raise my [00:27:00] family and have that form of peace. Yeah, so,

Nneka: so was there this, you know, urgency to leave that home, become an adult is Yes.

And leave the home. I was like, I'm gonna find a way.

Angie: And it was, it was my mom had this real close friend who she used to work with, and she told my mom, she said, I don't know exactly what's going on, but she said, your daughter's gonna leave. Your daughter's gonna leave. It's gonna be, she kind of explained to my mom that there will be a wedge between us because she could tell I wasn't happy.

And I knew right then because my mother's friend, she was very spiritual. She had that really close. She would always pray and she would just have that very. I feel like her spirit, she always had something in her spirit and she told my mom that, she told my mother like, there's that wedge and your daughter's gonna leave.

She's gonna leave. [00:28:00] And in my head I was like, the first exit I get. I'm out, I'm leaving. I'm like, I don't know what it looks like on the other side, but I'm gonna figure it out.

Nneka: Yeah. You just didn't, the space just was not welcome. And like you said, your mother was a loving mom. Yes, she was. Yeah. But having all the, but the stuff

Angie: was made it worse.

That outweighed. Hurt.

Nneka: Yeah. It outweighed the stuff.

Angie: Outweighed her.

Nneka: You couldn't even necessarily concentrate. Mm-hmm. On the love. And I'm sure she was probably distracted too, and not being able to give you really what you needed because she was so consumed with those things. And so I'm glad you mentioned a friend, because that was my next question.

You know, outside of your. FA family. Were there friends? Did your mom have friends? Were people coming over to visit her or did that kind of was halted because of her hoarding behavior? Yes.

Angie: My mom has friends, but my mom would not allow anybody over. Now, we would have, my aunts have been over before the house got.

Like I said before, the house got to worst capacity. Like if we [00:29:00] were cleaning up and let's just say my cousins would come over, that would be the time. Like my aunts would come and visit. We might, you know, they might come over, we might watch movies and stuff, but other than that, my mom's not letting any close friends over.

Okay. So you didn't experience her with friends? No. I mean, she, I knew my mom had friends. I would know them from like work, from her job. Like I said, 'cause she would work part-time and stuff like that, but it wasn't like her friends is coming over. That is a no-no, no. Mm. If it's not her sister's close family stopping by.

And like I said, we straighten up a little bit with what we could straighten up within that situation. But anybody close, they not getting in. Okay. They not coming in.

Nneka: So what would the, the close people who were coming over, like your aunts and uncles, like what were they, what would they say? What they were saying, they

Angie: wouldn't say anything.

Nneka: Yeah.

Angie: But I also noticed too, that there's also certain people in my [00:30:00] family that also probably struggle with hoarding as well.

Nneka: Okay.

Angie: Yeah.

Nneka: So it's a history, a family history of it. Yeah.

Angie: That's what, that's what I know now. That's what you know. Okay.

Nneka: Okay,

Angie: so, but of course, you know, back then I don't think anybody was gonna mention it.

It was just like one of those hush hush things, you know, I'm not gonna question it, we're not gonna mention it. I think that was the initial, but also at the same time, maybe because other people are struggling with it as well and don't realize it.

Nneka: That's true because sometimes things become so normalized, it just, you know, you live with it, it doesn't seem out of sort.

But what the sad thing is, is when we see that, let's say you're, you know, a person's not a hoarder and they come over to the house repeatedly and they see that it's sad that we can't, we don't know how to approach the situation. And I think in a lot of cultures, it is hard too. Initiate the hard conversations when we see for our with our own two [00:31:00] why's that something just don't seem right, but we are afraid to approach the situation for fear of the person getting upset with you and being mad, you know, all the things.

So we avoid. Having those tough conversations because of what we say to ourselves about, if I approach this,

Angie: mm-hmm it's

Nneka: gonna be an issue, but how beautiful would it be if we could actually approach the hard conversations and help people? Because I think a lot of times what what happens is it just goes unsaid.

Mm-hmm. Yep. So today, when you think about, you know, you're a married woman with children. Like even before you got married, like what were your relationships like? So you moved into your own space. I wanna talk about that. You moved into your own space. Mm-hmm. What was the experience like when you moved into your own space?

You're not in your mom's home, your parents' home. Like, what was that experience for you?

Angie: You know, and, and just kind of backtrack a little bit. When I did [00:32:00] officially leave the house, I ended up moving in with. A ex, which, well, not an ex, he was a boyfriend at the time, which, which was, it went totally left from how I wanted it.

But after that I had kind of lived with after that relationship had ended up ended, I ended up living with my daughter's father when we were together. And so those years when we were together, I was living with him. And then when I finally, when me and him. And our relationship ended, and I finally got my own apartment.

It was like a breath of fresh air because when you're not living with anybody else, and none of those situations prior to when I was living with my b the boyfriends that I was with at that time, those living situations weren't bad. But as far as like, you know, keeping the house clean, like we were all on the same page.

But when I was able to get my own apartment and, and make my [00:33:00] own rules and have things set up like how I wanted it to, it was like a breath of fresh air because it was like, I don't have to be confined with all these things. It was like, I can make my home how I wanted it to. I can make that space for my daughter at the, you know, and it was just like I can finally have.

That space. And I loved it because my living room, I had that set up how I wanted it to, and it was like whatever I wanted to throw away, I could throw away whatever I wanted to keep. I can keep, like it wasn't no question. It wasn't no fight back. So I feel like the beauty of it was really when I finally got my own place by myself, just me and my daughter, you know?

And it was truly a breath of fresh air. It was like, I can now just. Finally have a peaceful home that I can come into and feel that peace. Yeah. And be able to relax after a hard day at work and don't have to worry about the stuff, you know? Right. [00:34:00] So it was really freeing for me. Yeah. It was really freeing.

I mean, the pain of the issue doesn't go away, but the future of it was like, okay, I can finally get on track with, you know?

Nneka: Yeah. So when you say the pain of it, what do you still carry today?

Angie: I think I still carry just. A lot of that, it was just the pain of like, why did it have to be like this? Like why wasn't she able to get help sooner and, and why did it have to tear our relationship up so bad?

Mm-hmm. It's like, I didn't want that for me and my mother, but it definitely, it, it tore. It just tore me up because of how I look at my mother. Like it's not her, it's the stuff, but the fact that she, I feel like she put the stuff over me.

Nneka: Okay.

Angie: And I could just, I never, I never could let it up. Like it always just stuck with me.

Yeah. Like she chose the stuff [00:35:00] over. That's how you feel. Yeah. Me and, and my dad and my brother.

Nneka: Right. I'm sure it's not Definitely. I can see why that would kind of. You know, keep you consumed. Mm-hmm. In terms of when you think of a mother-daughter relationship. Yeah. Grieving the loss of what could have been.

Mm-hmm. I'm sure you know, the hoarding behavior interfered with a lot of what you guys could have done together as mother and daughter. And I'm sure it's not something that, you know, she wished for, prayed for, for herself. It was something that was outta control. So today, now that we know, that's what it's called, is she acknowledging that.

That's what it is.

Angie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. My mother is actually, she's in therapy. Mm-hmm. And she is, she hasn't really told people that she's in therapy, but I feel like it's a start, it's a positive start. Mm-hmm. And by me also being in therapy, I have been working through the issue as well, and I am praying that [00:36:00] that can help.

Our relationship get to a better place, to a better place because she does realize, okay, I understand. Back then I didn't know how much pain it put on you, but now I'm trying to get better. So the fact that she is understanding what the name of it is and getting help for it, it, it makes me feel better for our relationship to get on track to a better space.

Mm-hmm.

Nneka: Okay. How is your father supporting her? How are other family members and how are you supporting her as she comes to understand the why behind her behavior?

Angie: My dad, he has actually they have been working alongside with. Her current counselor as well and they've been keeping up updates and they have been, to my understanding, taking piece by piece of like different areas of the house and working on what to keep, what not to keep.

And also we have been trying to set up like family [00:37:00] meetings. 'cause I feel like family is definitely important when you have a hoarder. In the household. So we try to have every, like, every other month meetings with our family. We try not to stretch out too long, but we all, you know, life is busy. So we, we try to make sure that we have some form of family meetings so that we can talk about the progress and talk about things within our family just to, to, for us to all be on the same page and on the same track of being in support of her trying to support her.

That's wonderful. That's beautiful. So I feel like. That is one key to when you have a hoarder in the household. It's like once they acknowledge it, be able to, to continue to stay on top of it and, and to, to try to just support them in that moment as well. Yeah. Which may be hard. I get it. It it, it'll help out in the long run.

Nneka: Okay. I wanna fast forward a little bit 'cause we come to a close. I know you have your own family, your own [00:38:00] children. How has what you encountered with your mom, how has it impacted, how has it influenced how you interact with your, your kids in terms of chores and cleaning? Like what, what are the lessons that you instill in them with,

Angie: especially with the kids, I always try to instruct chores for the kids.

I want them to understand that having a clean space. Is important. Not saying that you can't, you know, not saying that it has to be a strict, like, you know at all times you can't play or you can't do, but understanding the terms of, I try to teach my daughter, like, especially when we go through our clothes, Hey, we're gonna go through the things that you can't wear anymore so that we can donate it to kids that are less fortunate or, hey, with the toys.

We're gonna help and give the toys to other kids that need it. That's the structure that I set in the household. We all have chores. We all try to come together and clean because I want my kids to understand that the space that you live in [00:39:00] is supposed to be safe and and peaceful. When I don't think a lot of people understand too, as a hoarder, you put a lot of safety issues there.

It, I mean safe, you know, if there's a fire, how can you get out if there is. S, you know, there's so many different factors when it comes to safety as well. So I feel like having a clean space is very important, and I like my kids to understand that. And they also practice that as well, understanding that you don't have to keep everything right.

You just keep certain things and you give away the others, you know, so that's very important as well. Okay.

Nneka: I know. Okay. Earlier in our conversation, you mentioned you don't hoard, but you hoard thoughts. Mm-hmm. Can you explain that a little more?

Angie: I feel like when I think of like hoarding thoughts, it is just a constant, my mind is collecting, like there's no exit for the thoughts.

It's constantly like [00:40:00] I'm going back. Back to something old, back to something that happened to me. Mm-hmm. It's like it's a constant rotation of just things that I don't let go of. And I refer that to that as being like hoarding of thoughts. Yeah. When you throw something away, you're not supposed to go to the trash can and get it.

You're supposed to be like, okay, it's in the trash can. And for me it's like. If I forgive somebody using this as example, yeah. It's like, I would say I forgive, but I'm still holding that thought. Like, I remember what you did. I remember that this happened. And so I feel like that is what hoarding of the thoughts is for me.

It's like not releasing things just as well as my mom wasn't throwing away the stuff that was trash. You know, if you read that newspaper, okay, clip a article out, but don't keep the whole paper. You don't need it. Okay. You know, so that's kind of like the same thing. It's like with your thoughts, it's like, yeah, I may have been through that [00:41:00] and you understand how to handle that for the future, but why are you having this in rotation in your mind?

Yeah. Like it's not feeding you any positivity. It's only negative.

Nneka: Yeah. When I think about, you know, from a psychological perspective, when people hold on to things, it's something internally they say to themselves. It's not, it's like a form of anxiety. Mm-hmm. It says if I release this, then, you know, people connect with releasing things with something bad.

Mm-hmm. Or, or I gotta keep this because it is something good, it's gonna bring me something or something bad is gonna happen. I think sometimes, you know, by releasing it, they, there can be a internal narrative of something negative or something sentimental. I was reading something about a person who was a hoarder.

They had lost, you know, they had started off a person who was very neat and clean, and when their somebody passed away, the hoarding started. Mm-hmm. And so by collecting things and holding onto things, there was that [00:42:00] way of kind of gaining control. But when you release something, it's almost like experiencing a loss.

All over again, once you have decided that there's sentimental value to this thing, and I don't wanna lose it. Mm-hmm. Because I don't wanna feel like I felt when I lost that person or I lost something. So you tend to hold onto things that are of sentimental value because you don't wanna feel that pain of the loss.

Mm-hmm. And so, I don't know if your mother had some type of loss in her life. But I'm glad that she's in counseling 'cause that's so very important to understand, you know, this is what the behind the nineties about is 10%. What you see on the top, the 90% is, is the story. And the story will kind of tell like the why to behavior.

And I think a lot of times people don't wanna tap into that because it can be pretty painful. For my last question to you, what would you tell someone, a child or somebody as an adult? If they grew up in a hoarding household household, what advice [00:43:00] would you have for them?

Angie: That's a tough, that's a tough one, because I feel like as kids it was hard because you just don't know.

You don't know the terminology for it. What I will say is that

it is a lot of, it's a lot of. Patience that's needed for someone who's a hoarder. I think that's the best way to say it. And a lot of times the parent doesn't get the help or the person doesn't get the help who may be in the household or, or the family member that you see. I always recommend as well too, is, you know, for me now identifying it during.

I wanna say I knew the terminology for between high school and as I get got older is that, you know, it doesn't hurt for the younger person to suggest counseling because counseling is made available for a lot of people. Do [00:44:00] understand that there might be pushback and do understand that it may not change, but there is a lot of patience that is needed for someone who is a hoarder because it is deeper.

The person feels like they need the stuff, the person feels like they can't part with it. And I also give a great, I would also say watching the show Hoarders helped me as well.

Nneka: It did,

Angie: and I would definitely say I would recommend someone who wants to know deeper about hoarding because I was able to see that I'm not the only one.

Nneka: You're not alone.

Angie: There's other people that have hoarders in their family. So I would also suggest watching hoarders as well, because it started to show me different situations, different family dynamics, people that were struggling with certain things, like you said, maybe a death and it caused someone to hold on to things.

I think that kind of helped [00:45:00] me kind of understand more so. What is happening and knowing that it's more of a mental illness it is versus someone just wanting to hoard all these things. Yeah.

Nneka: You can't just snatch all these things away from them. 'cause like you said, it's a deeper, yeah, it's deeper hoarding what we

Angie: see.

Hoarding can also, a hoarder could also hoard things in their car. They can also hoard things on the outside of their house. It can get as bad as like hoarding inside storage units. Like there is different ways hoarders can operate. And I feel like once you do the research and really find out how to help that person you can start to be able to just pull away the pieces on how to, you know, solve it.

Nneka: But what about for you, for that young person, how. What could someone have done, done for you? Is there anything that someone could have done did for you? Hope I'm saying that right. Is there anything someone could have did for you? [00:46:00] I think getting

help would've helped me. Mm-hmm. Because this is years and years of like, the, the trauma of it is, is so,

it's like. All the years of what she was doing caused years of trauma on me. So someone being able to get help back then when I was younger would've freed me from so much that I deal with today. Mm-hmm. That is connected to the hoarding. And I'm not saying everything. 'cause yes, in my life there's, you know, different things that I dealt with on my own.

But somewhere ho it always goes back to hoarding. It always goes back to that trauma of like, when this was happening. That is why the result of our relationship is like it is. So it's like. If she was to get [00:47:00] that help back then, I'm sure the dynamic of our relationship probably would be a lot different.

I understand that, but think about your father. Mm-hmm. When you think about little Angie. Mm-hmm. What did you need, you know, you probably didn't know then, but what was something that someone could have said to you? All of the situation may not change. Yeah. What could someone have said to you that would've brought you some comfort?

Like I said, granted the situation may not change immediately. Mm-hmm. But what were there words? Was there time? Was there anything someone could have said that would've gave, given you some sense of, you hear me, you see me, I understand you. Like what could someone have done to give you that comfort that you needed, whether it was your father, whether it was a aunt, whether it was a friend's mother.

I don't know. What did, what could you have, what could someone have said to help you?

Angie: I, I really don't know if anything could have been said. You know, I [00:48:00] think I was looking more so to the action, like even if my mother or my dad was to say, like, let's just say if my dad was to say, Hey, I understand that your mom has a situation and just know that we love you and that we'll get through it, I would've received it.

Mm-hmm. But I needed to see action. I think it was more so. Mm, the pain was coming from the fact of, I keep speaking it out, that it's uncomfortable, but no one's doing the action to fix it. So I don't think that anything really being said would help, because I felt like, I felt like the words of, I'm sorry was, you know, I'm sorry that this has to be this way, or, you know.

It was just like, I need to see action. Yeah. I don't think it was a, I don't think it really was anything that could be said, you know?

Nneka: Yeah. [00:49:00] And I get what you're saying in terms of action, but even if it was a function of people just validating your feelings, like you have a right to feel how you feel.

That's true. This is not normal. Yeah, that's true. This is not your fault. Yeah, and I think, yes. Can they back it up with actions? A little bit, but you know, it is a slow process Yeah. Of trying to help someone who's a hoarder. But I think when you think about a child that may be in a similar situation, just acknowledging that this is not what you should be going through at your age, you should be That's true.

You know, playing with your friends, you should be able to have sleepovers and honey. I am so sorry that you're not able to do that. We're trying to get help for your mom. I think if someone had. They had taken more time to educate themselves. When I think back then a lot of people aren't educating themselves then Yes.

I mean, there are so many resources out there now. A lot of people don't, don't know. Not to blame anybody. Right. You know? But a lot of information is not out there when it comes to mental illness because it shows up differently. [00:50:00] Mm-hmm. For everybody. Not a lot of information was out there back then, but when you think about now.

There's information out there so that we can get the help that we need. So I'm just thinking of other little Angie's out there. Yeah. That may be going through it and just having someone say, Hey, I see you. I hear you. You didn't, you don't deserve this and we're gonna work to make things or make sure that you are all in, in the sports that you wanna be in the clubs.

You know, putting that energy into making sure that even if things are where you need them to be at home, we are going to focus in your individualized needs. We're gonna, outside of the home, we're gonna make sure. That that happens for you. Mm-hmm. Just to kind of balance it out until we can, you know work these things out.

Angie: When you put it that way, that, that would've probably helped. Like, that would've probably been, you know, just putting [00:51:00] myself back then, I guess understanding and, and being aware, like, we understand this is not okay. That would've, I, I feel like yes, that would have felt for anyone who was young and, and in that situation, you know, somebody recognizing it like this is not okay.

Yeah, probably would've helped for sure. Just understanding like, but I think, I think just. In that moment, like you said, especially with not knowing the verbiage of what was happening. Mm-hmm. But like you said, just somebody acknowledging that, I think that would've been important. I think it would've helped if somebody was just like, we're gonna figure it out, but no one.

Knew how to do it, knew how to figure it out. No one knew how to do that. Yeah.

Nneka: But today there are so many resources out there and I think it's important that and we'll, you know, at the end I'll kind of type some in the caption, some of the resources that are out there for hoarding behavior and support groups.

Mm-hmm. But Angie, it [00:52:00] has been a wonderful time talking with you. Thank you. I appreciate, you know, your courage to come out. Talk about this very important topic of hoarding, growing up in a hoarding household. So I wanna say thank you again. Thank you for having me. I

Angie: definitely always love the experience and always wanna help somebody in, in the midst of it. So,

Nneka: because that's what it's about. It's not about putting anybody down, it's really about creating some awareness and building community around certain topics. So thank you.

Thank you for joining us for this deeply moving episode of Behind the 90 with Nneka. Angie's story reminds us that healing isn't always neat and easy, but it is possible from the pain of her past.

She's creating space and peace. But for purpose and freedom if today's conversation touch your heart, know that you're not alone. Many carry the silent wounds of growing up in chaos and taking the first step toward healing is an act of courage. [00:53:00] I want to thank Angie again for her vulnerability, honesty, and strength.

Her willingness to share her truth, give others permission to begin their own healing journey.

Thanks for joining today's episode. If you enjoyed the story time, don't forget to subscribe on Spotify, apple Podcast, Google Podcast, and YouTube. Leave us a review and share with your friends to help us reach more listeners. Stay tuned for more insightful stories. Until next time, take care and keep exploring new connections with us.