- Emily Wilkins with Marketing Metal. We're here at Fabtech 2025 on the floor. And I know we connected on LinkedIn a little bit 'cause I was looking to kind of continue the series that I'm doing right now on women in the trades. And you said that you were trades adjacent, but I was reading up on your story a little bit. I'm super excited to talk to you. So why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do? So Marketing Metal is the anti -agency. I built it to help job shops specifically with their marketing. I was like the one marketing person inside, you know, a couple small shops early in my career and I worked with, I worked with agencies as that, you know, kind of the liaison and I actually worked, I also worked for an agency for Hot Minute and there just always was a huge disconnect between what the shops needed and what they wanted and what the agencies were delivering and there's so much overwhelm and confusion around what shops need to do to market themselves. So I just re -engineered the process, flipped it on its head, and it's been working really well. Well, that's awesome, so take us back to the beginning. What was your background and kind of how did you even get started with, 'cause obviously marketing is a massive, broad, like everyone's doing it, but it's like in every single industry across the globe. So how did you get your start in marketing, but also within this industry specifically? - Yeah, so I went to an engineering school, Kettering University. It used to be GMI, the General Motors Institute. It was like the theater school for GM. And I started in mechanical engineering and with my first co -op position, I very quickly realized that I was not going to be an engineer It was the most boring miserable Existence of my life so I switched I almost left and went to art school and then my My mom teaches at this school. So I had free tuition and my nice. Yes, and my best friend at Kettering, her mom also worked there and had free tuition And she was like, you can't give this up. Yeah, that is like the ones that that is like, yeah 100 % anyone that went to college you'd be like, yeah So I ended up switching to business so they do have a big business program as It was a small business program and very manufacturing focused still. So I worked in the toy industry and product development and marketing. I just gravitated towards the marketing classes because it's kind of more on that creative side. I've always had those creative juices. My whole family is in engineering, manufacturing, a lot of my family worked at GM right now. You know, I grew up near Detroit, so it's like everybody works for GM. So, yeah, it just kind of made sense. And then my senior thesis project at school was at a small fab shop. And it was like I was, you know, the only person in the office a lot of time. So I would like go out into the shop and, you know, ask lots of questions and find out what they're doing and help out when, you know, when they needed help. So yeah, that was kind of my first, like, I mean, my dad had a, you know, had some equipment and is in his shop in the basement. So I like, I grew up doing some of that stuff. - More of like the hands -on. - Yeah, yeah, he had like a sauna drill, like a, an an old drill press. - Yeah, I'm forgetting the Bridgeport. He had an old, you know, Bridgeport drill pass. And so, yeah, I was mechanical already, but that was kind of my first real exposure to being in a shop. And I just, I really loved it. The owner was really took me under his wing and, you know, shared a lot with me about Running a shop and like what he was doing as the owner and what he had to do to you know to grow the business and all that So and then I I kind of randomly ended up working for a couple other small shops And the same thing like inside sales marketing. I actually did fabtech in like, I don't know 2007 or something like I heard it was a lot smaller than what it is now. Yeah, it would have been, he was probably like 2011, maybe 2012. Yeah, anyway, so, so yeah, just kind of like, and it never made sense. I never felt like I, you know, there was a logical rhyme or reason to my career. But then at one point, it was like after COVID, I had this, I had been running my business for two years and everything kind of exploded in my face and I was just overwhelmed and frustrated and feeling like I wanted to throw in the towel and then I found this kind of mastermind group and a business coach and kind of learned this different process and adapted it and saw the opportunity to adapt it to this market and make it work for this type of customer. It just made so much more sense to me than the way that marketing agencies traditionally do things. So yeah, that's kind of how, and then it was like, yeah, and as I started thinking back on my customers and my career and all that, it was like, oh wow, I do have like a lot of experience with working with job jobs, this makes total sense. So I went all in. - It's just like you naturally kind of funneled your way to that path almost all along. - Yeah, I mean, I've worked in lots of different industries, toy industry, farming, like all sorts of weird things. But then, yeah, it was like this is where I have the most experience and what I love doing the most. Like I love being out on the shop floor asking people what they're up to, learning about how things are made. And I speak the language, I understand what they're doing. So, and that's a huge problem when it comes to marketing for them, like agencies do not understand what-- - We experience that for sure. So, while we are a tech company within the metals industry, at one point when we, this was prior to me working for the company, and there was only four of us, so I now handle all the marketing, but when, before I came to the company, they had told me that they worked with a marketing group that it just, this was just like, oh, just look up. You know, we need a marketing agency to help us put our name out there. Kind of classic, like we didn't know, you know, to get something specific to the industry or anything like that. And it was the same thing. It was a very like, kind of just gave us the same box of things that they would give any other company and I at least from our experience a lot of people in this industry are almost like impermeable to marketing like they are like you can't get me to look at your stuff or you can't get me to listen to you so we had to get we ended up being like okay this that's just isn't really resulting anything we had to take a totally different approach yeah and you do have to do like weird things and and you've probably experienced that firsthand. So we have 100 % experience at marketing and metals is so different than-- - So different. - And it's probably different for every industry, but it is like, we have a different group of people that we're trying to reach. So where would you say like, even at the beginning or now, what was like the biggest roadblock that you were running into with marketing for these shop shops? - Well, I mean, there were a couple of things. So the communication side of it was a huge part. Like they just didn't understand how to communicate the value and how to tell the stories and get into those pain points for your, you know, like the manufacturer's customers, like figuring out what they needed and being able to communicate that in a way that made sense. So that was a huge challenge. The other challenges, like you said, they, they want to check all these boxes, like, you know, doing SEO, like monthly retainers, like, you do SEO, you do the blogs and all the things and like, check, check, check, check, check. But they're skipping over the important part, which is the messaging of figuring out and the story, telling the stories like this is a very relationship -based business still. So relationship -based. It's handshakes and you know it's who you know there's people that have been in this industry for 50 years that like still you know it's it's it's really all about who you know and so to translate that into a marketing strategy that makes sense yeah And yeah, that's where I think it's been really successful for us. So instead of making them pay monthly retainers to keep us on so that we can keep their website updated and do all the blogging for them and all the things, we're working with our clients more to pull out their expertise, like really get, you know, get their story out there, get them on camera. Like, I do a lot with my, you know, they're small shops, so the owner is doing everything, right? The owner is the salesperson, they're-- - You have to wear many hats when you're-- - They have to wear all the hats. But what they're selling is so different. It's a, they're selling their expertise, right? 'Cause they're not making the same parts. They have a set of capabilities, but what they're selling is their expertise and their ability to take a drawing and turn it into a part. I work with a lot of custom equipment builders and integrators and things like that, where they're really just creating something that's not standard by any stretch. Doing that like being able to tell that story and and market that expertise it takes a whole different approach So it's really just it's more about getting the person out there. Yeah getting their you know, their ideas their opinions their story their You know their experience all of that like getting all of that out there is Much more of the focus that absolutely we Re We experienced that firsthand that shop our CEO. He had the idea of When when we had kind of the cookie cutter marketing strategy, we were like this this will likely go nowhere, right? So last year, I guess it was like kind of summer of last year We were talking about it for a while. We would make jokes about like there's four of us in this office We're working out of a literal like house and we're like, "Why don't?" I feel like if people came in the door and listened to what we do, kind of even just like here, we're like, we're more face -to -face and people are seeing the people behind the company. It resonates so much more than when you were just calling people and they're like, "I literally don't care." - Yep. - They do not care about what you have to say. You are just another salesperson on the phone. - Yep. - So, Shep was like, "But it's so funny because then when we are in front of people, and he made a comment where he said, "I feel like if they walked in the front door, "by the time they walked out the back door "and heard our story, "they would be a new Rizos customer." So then he literally, we made jokes. I'm like, yeah, it's kind of like, we have so many just like funny days of us, like one day we'll all be at the table brainstorming, the next day we're each like heads down, just like all working on something that he was like, I feel like we need, It's like the office, like to show the office. So then we legitimately within two weeks, we put up 20 plus iPhones on tripods and these cameras and stuff. And we ended up filming a docuseries running eight hours a day cameras for two straight months. We brought people in from the industry, fabricators, suppliers, all these people. And we made a docuseries, it's a five part docuseries. And - It literally, because we understood we were like, all people need to do is be able to trust us. - Right, it's all about trust. - And know that they have Celux industry background and that we're literally four people that started this company and we're just trying to like make a difference in the industry. And when we made that realization that we're like, if people could just click on a video and literally watch us talk about, we're like this St. Louis, like very Midwest home ground situation, we're at the Silicon Valley, like just your everyday startup where we like are just random tech rows coming into the metals industry, like that isn't it at all. So we experience that firsthand about this storytelling aspect, which I feel like is exactly what you are doing. - Yeah, it's huge. So, and powering, like you guys did all that on your own. You don't need an agency to come in and do that. And same with my clients, like they don't need an agency to be there, you know, to like come in and do all the Do the things for them. They just need the foundation. So we build the foundation and then we teach them, you know, we teach them Really explain why we did things the way that we did, you know help them understand where the messaging is, what the messaging is doing and where it's coming from. And not just like clicking a button and being - Here you go. - Yes, it's not just like writing a shitty blog post with all the keywords in it, or that like nobody's actually gonna read. - Yeah. - It's getting, yeah, getting those owners on camera, getting their lead machinists on camera, getting their people that have that expertise and helping them tell their story, getting to the right aspects of what they do aspects of what what they do care about that like you said it's so relationship they want to see the machinist that's been there for 35 years that all they care about is like the customer happiness and making like a really high quality product also being a clearly a very loyal person to that company like people do care about those stories and maybe some people are like like I'm not to go watch that video of the interview, but that's in my experience, I think that's bullshit. I think everybody, I think everybody cares about hearing those types of stories. And that's at least for our industry, 100%. That's what matters the most. - For sure, yeah. Yeah, and back in the day, I mean, people would like, you would go door to door and you would actually go in the shop and like find the right person and talk to them and shoot, you know, shoot the show down the shop floor and that doesn't happen anymore. - Yes. - Anymore, right? Like after COVID. - And everyone's on, everyone's on socials and on their screens so you have to be able to get in that way. And it's all, that was another thing with us doing the documentary series. It is so video, content heavy, like everything. Like all your stuff on LinkedIn is video content and now video podcast, like everything is so, So now it's like, you also have to get in front of the camera, you have to tell that story. But I mean, even just based on your website alone, like I feel like you get the messaging for this industry the most, because even there was one part where it says something like, none of the extra bullshit or not, something like that that I was like. - Without the BS. - People really respect that. - Yup. - They really do. - Yup. - Because - We have our pricing on our website. - Yes, exactly. That's another thing. - No other agency has pricing on their website. Like, why wouldn't you? - Exactly, and I think that's all people really looking for. - Nobody does that. - Yeah, it's just like that transparency, that straightforwardness of being like, 'cause the thing is people know that they need to market themselves. They really do. - Yeah. - All this is so relationship based that, that yeah, you're probably have the same customers that you have the last 20 years, but your website is 20 years old. - Yeah, it looks like it was made in 1992. - Yeah, you don't have a case study that's newer than 20 years. - Yeah, so who are the kind of clients that you're working with now? And what's like, when you first enter these shops, what is like the first thing that you're looking for to build that foundation that you were talking about. - Yeah. Well, our process starts with the setup. Every good, you know, machining project starts with a good setup, right? You gotta have all the, you gotta have your plan in place. You have to understand what the drawing is, what the end result is supposed to be. So that's our first step. It's an interview. We do it over video, unless they're local. I've done a couple in person that are local. But, you know, we've, I asked them a whole long list of questions. A lot of it is around, you know, their history, why they, why they're doing what they're doing, how they got started, what's unique about them, what are their, like, philosophies, you know, what's the vibe, like, all of those things because it's to differentiate yourself as a commodity business like that, to differentiate yourself from the other fab shop down the street that's making the same exact stuff or has the same equipment and can make the same exact stuff, you differentiate with your personality. I mean, bringing that to the forefront is what's gonna make you memorable and trustworthy It's gonna it's gonna speak to the type of customers that you want to track. Yeah, so so that's what we do with this setup We're really trying to hone in what why are you different? Yeah, why are you there are thousands upon millions of fans? That's all over the world. Oh, what makes you stick out? Yes And sometimes it's pulling teeth to get that get that from them because they have a hard time communicating it and that's It might at least something that they've never once sat down to actually think about. - Most of them have not. - So they're like, huh, I don't know. What do I bring to the table? And clearly they have to or else they wouldn't be in business 'cause everyone would have just gone to the other guy that's down the street. So clearly something is there, but they just have to stop and be like, what is that actually? What do your customers say about you? You know, give me an of a project that went really well, like what were the key points and things that happened in this project? What were the challenges that your customers came to with? So that's a big part of what we focused on in the setup is asking about those perfect customers. You know, who are your perfect customers? What's their size? What's their, is it location -based, you know, industry, but also What are their values? What is their process like how why what makes them perfect for you? What makes it a great, you know, what makes it a great relationship? Yeah, right and then we can take all of that and we Turn it into a strategy for them. So then I write up a Usually like 10 page document about what I you know what I see is their biggest opportunity all planned - Yeah, the strategy, so. And then at the end, I'll recommend one of our packages and if they decide to move forward, then that's when we, you know, depending on how far and fast they wanna go and how much money they wanna spend, you know, we'll go in with cameras or use what they have, and it depends. But, and then we capture, you know, try to capture sure all of their magic and turn it into a brand that works for them so and you know that they have different needs for in terms of deliverables like our clients that are here you know we did we did their booths we did their we do their brochures and all the things okay and we do it all all at once so we're really focused on one client at a time got show which is very different. Most agencies are, and I think that's what we ran into. You were just one of many that got kind of the same package of things. And well, that probably works for a lot of companies. Like some people just need someone to help them get set up because like SEO is a totally different mammoth to tackle. So like maybe some people truly do just need kind of that assistance and kind of kickstarting something like that. But I just don't think that's the case with the metals industry? - No, it's not. SEO is great for companies that are selling products and they need to get tons of traffic to their site to be able to sell their products. For this industry, it doesn't make sense because most shops need a handful of Perfect leads a year to grow past where they need to be, you know, like that's gonna overwhelm them if they get You know if they get a thousand leads in a month, right? That's not that's gonna be completely overwhelming to them so and the way that we approach it with Like having the you know putting the owners out there and getting them out on LinkedIn and I have a lot of my clients My clients that are here are doing podcast interviews like this and you know they're doing panels and doing a lot of things in their community like um the they're from Iowa uh Coal Automation they're great um look them up um but you know they they do a lot with their local colleges and um so he's been getting out panels and like doing you know they do um like tours with with students and things like that All of that stuff, that is SEO. - Yeah. - Anytime that you're out there, being visible, talking about what you do, - The internet. - No, and even if it is the digital side of it, anytime that you're linking back to your site, that's SEO. So it doesn't have to be this like, so many agencies do white services from you know India or China or whatever and they just have this like checklist of things that they do for everything and it's because that's much I would say it's much easier that's a yeah versus this is a lot more this is a lot more steps and the process behind it is very in depth with I think that is exactly what this industry needs and these shops because especially - Especially we are in, it's hard to say this, looking at all of the things around us, but can definitely be a more antiquated industry, right? Some of these shops that they still do things kind of a old school way and or you still have an older generation still working there. So it can be hard trying to tell them the importance of the marketing side of things. So it's good to have companies like yours that I feel like understand the message here and understand what these shops need because it is not the cookie cutter. Because then I also feel like that further pushes this narrative that they're like, "Oh, well, I don't need this because this is just the cookie cutter." So it makes it harder. Yeah, and it's like you're paying into the abyss for maybe And like you might get some return on it, but you're spending so much money to get like minimal results. And I think to them, you know, they have enough things that they have. They have enough expenses. Right. They have software certifications and, you know, equipment, you know, they're paying off equipment and they have to do training with their employees and all the things like this is marketing is another thing that they have to spend money on that they don't want to be spending money on right like it's it can be a low market yeah right it's not gonna work if they think it's not gonna work so so yeah my whole thing is really empowering them to take what we build and be able to use it you know to to run with it yeah it doesn't take much you know like they can do a post a week on LinkedIn and get pretty. I mean, it's not even that. Like I was talking in my sessions yesterday. Like I have one client that made a name for himself just commenting on other people's posts. You know, like not even doing his own post. He is now, he's showing up more, which is awesome to see. Putting yourself out there a little bit more into the world. And yeah, it is, there is a certain level of people that want this accessibility to you to just know that who you are or what you're doing and not just like this figure behind the scenes that they know nothing about it's only just like okay so I know your company but like yeah I you that means nothing to me like especially now with AI like yes there's so much marketing automation and AI out there that and I mean how many cold calls do you get a day, how many text messages and emails do you get a day is like people just ignore that. They're not going to pay attention to that at all. Yeah. I mean, I know some, some companies have some success with, with, you know, cold emailing and stuff, but it's not, it's not anywhere near as effective as just tapping into your existing network. Yeah. Again, manufacturing is a relationship business and most people have been in it for a long time. Yeah. So reach out to your contacts, tell them where you're up to, like just remind them that you're there, you know. Absolutely. Yeah, so obviously I noticed you had a lot of ribbons on your, your, yeah, your, and I saw you were, you're a speaker, exactly. You're doing all sorts of stuff at the show. So why do you normally come to Fabtech and what, or I know you said you're working with your clients here as well. So what have you been doing at the show this year? I love this show. They're great. I applied to speak here three years ago. This was my third year speaking. Oh nice. I did two sessions this year which was new. I had a new one that was about personal branding because again that's like part of my of our philosophy is like building that personal brand setting yourself up as an expert you know positioning yourself as an expert in the industry and it was a great session it we had a 30 -minute conversation afterwards like questions and discussion and it was really awesome yeah that's great yeah yeah so if you could leave people with one thing for anyone listening that has a shop and these fabricators out there what would be your message to them to be able to get started or if you were going to start working with someone what would be like your one message to them for that branding like you said and like the most important things that they could start doing to help them market themselves make a human no that's that's excellent That's literally the same things that we were all having to say to each other because we're like You just people want to see that sort of content out there and want to know that you're A real person and also like yeah Make it human be be human like post about your life I I hate when people put the like disclaimer on their linkedin post like personal post warning It's like this is a social platform like yes it is for your professionals but you don't have to like preface your posts with like we're I mean the day you know the day and age that we're in right now like it's just there's such a blend between personal life and and business life and there has to be I mean there has to be a balance there but like the I think the most successful companies recognize that their people are people, right? You know, they have challenges outside of work that affect their work. - And it is so, I mean, when I see certain posts on LinkedIn where, whether it's like me and, so that's actually my sister that I work with, that's my oldest sister, so when we talk about it one time when, you know, she saw something about, just someone being very honest about being a working mother. - Yeah. And immediately Kelsey's like, do you know how much that resonated just to see someone breaking that barrier of like it doesn't always have to be like so business related. And she's like, it instantly made me be like, oh yeah. Like I can, it's okay to be human too. And just remember that we're all, yes we, everybody needs a job of course, but like we're also still doing things outside of those times that people want to see. 'Cause then it makes it so much more relatable the Second, you're like, oh, this person is having a really hard time in their career, or even the people that are so open about getting laid off and things like that, like it just makes it so real. And then I feel like it just totally reinforces this message of like, people just wanna know that you're a person, you're a human too. - Yeah, yeah, I mean, some of my, some of my most, whatever, not viral, but like most engaged posts have than my most vulnerable. - Yes. - Where I'm like talking about my health issues and having to pay hospital bills and like all of that. Like that, those are, those are my most, sorry, we have a garbage truck coming in behind us. The joys of recording at a trade show. - All right. And being on an ad cap with a Trout skin. (laughing) - Anyway, anyway, Anyway, I'm being vulnerable. As I'm being vulnerable, talking about my hospital status, but yeah, like those have been my most pops of populars out of the red. I'm struggling with my words today. But yeah, it is like viral, like the most, just engagement with those. Yeah, most engagement on my posts, the most number of views and impressions and whatever, like those have been my most vulnerable posts. - Yeah, I've seen that a ton of times, especially in the LinkedIn community, 'cause I think it's breaking down that barrier a little bit of what people are really wanting to see in that. It's, we can talk business all day, but I think that it definitely reinforces, it's just like, we wanna know that you have the same struggles that I do, because we all are kind of living the same life, and it's really there are some times. - Some other, yes. - And showing that you have fun. And they are passionate about what you do and you care. And that's my other popular posts are like selfies with my clients on their shop floor. And like talking about the dinner that we went to the night before and like just shooting the shits. - Exactly. - Being human, talking about their kids and their lives. and actually a lot of our clients, we've really integrated, you know, some of their hobbies. Like I have a client torque manufacturing. They used to be, they were blue sun manufacturing initially because they were doing like a lot of LED lighting stuff. And then they, that was, you know, 15 years ago and they don't really do that stuff anymore. And it didn't make sense. People, like, thought they were a tanning sloth. So, So we, yeah, so we, um, you know, I recommended that they rebrand and, um, and they're super into, um, uh, dirt biking and like, you know, motor sports. So we came up with torque manufacturing and a lot of their website is they have a, um, they have a dirt bike track that's like three minutes away from their shop and a couple of their guys like race and do things. So we like did, got video footage of their guys on the track and used that as part of their brand. 'Cause it's like, that's, you know, that's part of what they do. - Yeah, 100%. - And they make parts for that industry too. But, and obviously, you know, there's a lot of torque in machining. - Yes, absolutely. - But yeah, it was just They're really fun brands and their team is like so proud of it and they're so excited about it. It feels more personal. It feels more like them. Right. With this brand. It's more their vibe. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, if for anyone listening, if they wanted to get in contact with you or check out more of your services, where would they find you? Marketingmetal .com. Okay. And I'm on, I'm very active on LinkedIn. Yes. Emily to Emily Joanne Wilkins. - Yes, 'cause that's where I was able to connect with you as well, which was awesome. - Yeah, was it Jim that connected us? - Yes, yeah, 'cause I, and Demi as well, which I was able to talk to her yesterday, which was awesome. - Oh, good, yeah. - It was fantastic. So, all over, great conversations, but this was, I loved all of this, and I feel like we've had so much of a personal experience with the marketing side of this industry, so, and I think it'll resonate with a lot of our listeners. So thank you so much for taking the time to join us. This was a great conversation. - Yeah, thank you so much for having me. - Yes.