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Welcome back to the Amazing, the weekly podcast for acquisition Entrepreneurs

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hope builders and search round investors in the UK, Europe and beyond.

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I'm your host, Gareth Wilkins, co-founder and CEO of BIS Crunch,

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the AI powered end to end tool suite for small business succession and a.

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And today I am excited to be joined by Tonya Nagle.

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And nice to see you.

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Hey, how are you?

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Tonya has a truly

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unique perspective on the world of acquisition entrepreneurship.

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She's someone who sat on both sides of the table,

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starting with her own startup in the nineties

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and then scaling at pace with global corporates like Procter and Gamble.

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So she understands what it takes

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to build something from the ground up and what it takes to operate at scale.

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And over the past 25 years, she's worked across an impressive range of industries

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FMCG, telecoms, entertainment, leading project teams from 10 to 300 people.

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So that entrepreneurial grit combined with the corporate discipline,

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has given her the ability to thrive in that messy middle.

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And an insight into the challenges mid-sized businesses face today.

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Recently, as a board advisory consultant, she's helped leadership teams of 3

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to 10 million revenue

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businesses to sharpen their operations and unlock their growth strategies.

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And now, as an established business

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acquirer herself with two already under her belt,

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she's leading and building the indie rock group,

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actively buying creative agencies ready for smooth transitions,

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where she preserves the founders legacies and their teams.

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So Tonya is great to have you with us today.

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Hope I did you justice in the interests of good.

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Thank you. Some very impressive. And somebody else says all that.

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And your humility.

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You know, it goes without saying.

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But it is wonderful to have you with us.

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And I'm really excited to be getting into what's brought you to

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where you are today and where you're going with the DevOps group.

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So you've described your career path as squiggly. Yes.

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Did you want to elaborate on that and how that journey unfolded?

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Yeah, the various phrases.

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And for this wonderful woman whose name I have forgotten and I apologize,

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I had wrote the script a career, and so I've borrowed that phrase

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I've heard called the fruit salad career as well.

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But I, I, I was one of those kids

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that didn't actually know what she wanted to do when she grew up.

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I had a vague idea it was something to do with business,

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and so I after university

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and during that kind of final year, I just I just tried to get a job, any job.

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I ended up at Lloyd's of London.

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I was an underwriter broker that beforehand.

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But while I had been at university and while I was there,

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I was always messing around in the music industry.

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I was putting on gigs.

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I was my sister ended up working at one of Richard Branson's labels

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and she and I and a friend set up a company called I Gig,

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which was one of the first companies doing live gigs on the Internet.

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So webcasting at the time.

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And it was, you know,

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that entrepreneurial side of me has always been there.

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And even at Lloyd's, you know, I would find problems with something

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and then make a solution and suddenly, you know, that was,

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we've got a product that differentiates us from the market.

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And so I've kind of learned as I've gone

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and without necessarily knowing the definition of what it was

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that I liked and I was good at, found my way through this career

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and marketing.

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And for me when I went into it was another lightbulb moment just like, that's

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that thing where you, you understand the consumer, the problem, everything.

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You create a solution and then you sell it

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end to end really made a lot of sense to me.

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And now I'm in this environment.

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It's the same thing.

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You know, I find issues where there is something

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that I can change, grow, transform and build better.

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And that's really where I've kind of come out of my life.

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It's build better and whatever

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context that is in it doesn't really matter what sector, what function.

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If you have that mindset, I think you can operate in a lot of places.

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I wholeheartedly agree.

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Very important transferable skill that that mindset.

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You you mentioned there about your startup journey

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and in transitioning into the sort of life post Corporation,

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you obviously had a decision ahead of you as to whether you'd go

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and do that again, but you chose the the world of acquisition entrepreneurship.

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But what specifically about it attracted you to make that leap?

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I think there are two things I knew, having done it

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first time round, how exhausting a startup was,

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and I didn't think I necessarily

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had that energy at this pace in my life when my kids are teenagers

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and I'm also an active rower, so I'm juggling quite a busy life.

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The second was actually

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an ex colleague of ours had bought a very boring business

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in his twenties, and I'd always been intrigued by that

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because it had never occurred to me as something that you could do.

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And so as I was thinking about the world, I thought, Well,

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rather than start up a business, maybe I'll buy a business and run that.

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It would also

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satisfy a degree of I'd been very senior

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in big corporations, but I've never got to make the decisions and run things.

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And as I

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knew more about myself, I knew that that's where I wanted to get to.

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And the speed of me

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getting there was was becoming a bit slow because of the economic conditions.

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I thought that Leapfrog

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I did a course at the Harbor Club and as I was doing that,

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I kind of realized that buying a business was buying yourself a job,

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but potentially buying a few businesses was

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finding a new path into that control and ownership.

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That was really what I was after.

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So, yeah, become the shareholder, not not the employee.

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Basically what a beautiful soundbite and a great epiphany, actually.

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And yes, I'm really glad that you came to that path and.

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Yes. Is it playing out the way you intended in that sense?

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Yes, to some extent.

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I have bought myself a job with one of the companies

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because they had an M.D., the MD left, and I'm acting M.D.

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part time with somebody else at the moment.

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So I'm a little bit more involved than I had intended to.

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However, I am still being involved with the other companies

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and I'm still seeking other companies to join the group.

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So I'm quite quickly trying to transition myself

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out of that and get somebody else to take that role.

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Yeah, understood.

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We'll take on that a little bit later, if that's all right, because I'd be keen

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to to get the picture of the reality post and post deal in those situation.

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Not uncommon for for the MD to go.

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Indeed, that may be part of the deal.

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So the New

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York group, which I love, the strapline, the mission, Brilliant.

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Alone, louder together.

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Yes, I love that.

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Spending time on chat,

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getting the right sounding board and writing ideas out.

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It's a real enabler, isn't it?

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Yeah, but no doubt your creativity,

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you know, brought that into the world.

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So tell us a little bit about the approach

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that might differ differ from a typical roll up.

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Yeah. So look.

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Marketing and agency world

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is filled with people who are quite creative,

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tend to be quite neurodiverse as well, and often have started out

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because there are 26,000 independent agencies in the UK and most of those

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have been started by people, people who are 20 13,000, 26,000.

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It's it's a huge number.

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And remember, a lot of these are very small single man

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people because they didn't want to do the job in a corporate either.

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It wasn't giving them the flexibility they wanted.

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They didn't agree with the environment.

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And often because actually that corporate environment doesn't suit

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that type of personality.

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So and it's it's also it's low entry.

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You know, you don't need a lot of capital to start up an agency.

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You need people.

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And people can be freelance. You can, you know,

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there's all sorts of clever ways you can move that stuff around.

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So 26,000 and when you talk to them, they are passionate.

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They really want to do a great job.

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They have very distinctive ways of doing things.

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They've come up as an expert in the in their field,

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be that creative director, be that account manager, whatever is.

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And they have set up and varying degrees of success

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along that lines

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pushing them

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into a big corporate doesn't then work.

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So you know if you think about the exit strategy,

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a lot of the people who would be buying this is like an Accenture,

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you know, years ago started buying 60 agencies, I think, or

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another big agency like a WPP or a Publicis,

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that is is I've observed that

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and I've seen people sell their businesses there.

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And within three years,

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the directors have gone because you had part of the deal.

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The employees have often gone

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because that work culture and how things

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happened and how things are successful has gone.

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And often the clients have gone as well, because what the clients liked

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was that culture and that's gone.

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So my thought was,

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how do you preserve that

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independent culture, independent

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nature, but add value through the group?

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And so the one thing that I look for or the one thing

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they have to be really great at what they do, there

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has to be potential for more headroom in terms of organic growth.

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They also have to be natural collaborators.

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And I've turned down really

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lucrative businesses because when it came down to

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it was all about, what do I get?

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How does this work for me?

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Rather than seeing the potential of if I do this stuff with these people,

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gosh, look what it can do for me.

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You know as well as what it can do for everyone else.

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And so that collaboration has to be part of, you know, what this group is about.

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Yeah, very strong differentiator, I think,

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and also a nice filter on which to select your your deal flow

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helps to avoid

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landmines down the road, I guess.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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And you know, sometimes the owner's going to leave anyway.

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However, that culture pervades and you've always got a period where you're going

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to have to be working with that person and that success is going to be,

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you know, defined a lot of it by that first period.

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Yeah, very true.

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And difficult to know that intimately during the kind of initial

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going to getting to know in due diligence stage.

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When you really find that out wholly after the deal is done often.

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So just double clicking back on that 26,000 UK

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creative agency companies, that must be a very broad base to that pyramid.

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Like it's got to be lots and lots of lifestyle.

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Business is the sort of the pinnacle, the apex of that pyramid

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must be quite small in terms of companies

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that really grow to a scale or have the capacity to grow to scale.

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How do you how do you filter on that?

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There are lots of

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glass ceilings.

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And so the trick for me is being able to understand

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what those ceilings are and whether I think I can help break through them.

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So some of them are obvious and it's in every business, right?

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It's be you walk in and it's a good team,

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but there's it's just the owner and people doing jobs.

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There's no leadership team right that I can fix easily if the

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if the quality of the work's good and the people are good,

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I can create leadership teams and.

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Wear them off or. Often. Yeah. Yeah.

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You know,

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the two I'm working with, one certainly has it

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and they've been developing it for 6 to 12 months and they are,

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you know, you look back at where they were a year ago and they are

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now in the majority running that business.

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For me.

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The other ones are just on that journey.

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There are a couple of people in there

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who have potential and yes, you know, a couple who might not.

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But you start off on that journey and then you add in as you need to.

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But yeah, creating leadership teams, creating processes

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that allow delegation of outcomes, not tasks

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that allow

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teams to be able to have a vision

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and a plan and communicate that so that people can work against that

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rather than overly told me to do X, you know, so they understand the context,

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the objectives, you know, what, what are the priorities,

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and then communicate the communication and people, you know,

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the winning the hearts and minds

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of the broader organization and bringing them along.

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All of those things really easy to do if you get the buy in

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from from the the owner or if you are the owner,

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then you know,

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other other areas which are just,

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as I say, the the the capacity for further growth.

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So that that's a little bit harder to judge and a little bit of that

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is my business and past expertise.

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But looking at what fundamentally is the proposition,

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how does that compete in the market

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and do they have headroom?

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You know, so for example, if they're playing at the lower end

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of the market, i.e.

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execution, and that's going to get eaten, you know,

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unless they are at the forefront of improving that process.

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So, you know, one of the businesses I'm involved in

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is actively developing products so that, you know, they will be at the forefront

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rather than being the people who become obsolete.

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Another, you know, where they are.

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It really involves strategic thinking and applying that strategic thinking,

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a specialized knowledge in an environment which it doesn't get into very easily.

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So, you know, finding those businesses and often it's also clients

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looking at what their client roster looks like and thinking, well, okay,

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these are reasonable clients that you know, understand what they're doing.

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And if I if I take that as a testament to the quality of the work,

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then I think I can go and get other clients for them.

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Yeah, it's going to be a key thing to look for,

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I guess is that quality of the client book who's who's, who's got long term,

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high value repeatable clients, that's not intensive.

00:15:17:29 - 00:15:20:24
The value of the business, I would imagine, in a creative agency,

00:15:20:24 - 00:15:25:00
although to your earlier point about it being people based and relationship based

00:15:25:00 - 00:15:27:21
and you know, you've got to be careful not to lose those clients

00:15:27:21 - 00:15:33:03
when the founders of the agencies inevitably want to pass on the baton.

00:15:33:05 - 00:15:33:23
Yeah, yeah.

00:15:33:23 - 00:15:38:19
Really, really difficult sort of set of plates to keep spinning, I would imagine.

00:15:38:21 - 00:15:39:04
Yeah.

00:15:39:04 - 00:15:43:05
And that's why, you know, the leadership team becomes key

00:15:43:05 - 00:15:48:15
because if you, if it's all based on the owner's owners and the owners

00:15:48:18 - 00:15:51:08
and those direct relationships, it's never going to work

00:15:51:08 - 00:15:53:29
because they go and eventually it's going to drift off.

00:15:53:29 - 00:15:59:20
So really getting that leadership team to start taking not just the relationships

00:15:59:20 - 00:16:05:09
but the the quality and the consistency of of the work across is is key.

00:16:05:12 - 00:16:08:00
Yeah, I. Totally get that.

00:16:08:00 - 00:16:12:07
Can we just talk a little bit about deal structuring? Yes.

00:16:12:14 - 00:16:14:21
Because you you invoked Mr.

00:16:14:21 - 00:16:17:15
Subtle there when you mentioned WPP a little earlier

00:16:17:15 - 00:16:21:21
and what Martin Sorrell did very well, it was was deal structuring

00:16:21:23 - 00:16:27:23
with equity swaps and announced with upside and he did a great job capital

00:16:27:23 - 00:16:31:17
efficiently of building a group you know getting a grip very quickly with WPP.

00:16:31:17 - 00:16:34:23
So you know obviously great case study

00:16:34:29 - 00:16:40:08
but if you take a similar approach and if if so, what's been

00:16:40:08 - 00:16:43:26
the kind of unlock on the trust side with the founders

00:16:43:28 - 00:16:47:24
in getting them to buy into those sort of deal structures?

00:16:47:26 - 00:16:49:22
So the

00:16:49:22 - 00:16:53:22
trust side has mostly been relationship, right?

00:16:53:22 - 00:16:59:07
So and and so me relationship starts with transparency.

00:16:59:10 - 00:17:03:00
So I I'm not the sort of person that's a natural,

00:17:03:00 - 00:17:06:00
you know, sales person trying to hustle.

00:17:06:05 - 00:17:07:25
You pretty much get what you see with me.

00:17:07:25 - 00:17:10:23
I'm very direct in my language my approach.

00:17:10:23 - 00:17:13:14
But so there's there's a degree of transparency

00:17:13:14 - 00:17:15:13
and they tend to trust me on that.

00:17:15:13 - 00:17:18:13
And the second is obviously I have

00:17:18:15 - 00:17:21:27
a reasonable pedigree in terms of my marketing background.

00:17:21:29 - 00:17:24:29
And because I have mixed that up

00:17:24:29 - 00:17:29:21
where small business and start up and I've also built businesses

00:17:29:21 - 00:17:34:17
within the large company, so I built a business from scratch, something

00:17:34:19 - 00:17:39:04
I have a level of understanding and empathy of what they're going through

00:17:39:07 - 00:17:43:17
and but also the lessons that I've been able to learn.

00:17:43:22 - 00:17:45:28
I can bring into that environment.

00:17:45:28 - 00:17:48:19
And I've done that even before.

00:17:48:19 - 00:17:52:01
I've done deals with them, so I've given them advice and sometimes

00:17:52:04 - 00:17:55:04
sound of working on that advice, seeing that it's working,

00:17:55:04 - 00:17:59:05
and then they decide to get get into bed with me as well.

00:17:59:07 - 00:18:04:02
So there's a lot of that in terms of building the trust.

00:18:04:05 - 00:18:08:09
In terms of the deal structure, I'm still learning as I go.

00:18:08:15 - 00:18:10:12
I think is is

00:18:10:15 - 00:18:11:13
to say I

00:18:11:13 - 00:18:15:04
from a financial point of view, set up and agreed with my husband,

00:18:15:07 - 00:18:19:16
there'd be no debt and there'd be no personal guarantees.

00:18:19:18 - 00:18:23:01
So my loans to have by the way, I mean, that's

00:18:23:03 - 00:18:25:21
that's a nice starting point.

00:18:25:21 - 00:18:29:25
Yeah, it was you know, he he's very risk averse and I'm very risk forward.

00:18:29:25 - 00:18:33:05
And so we balance each other out quite well.

00:18:33:08 - 00:18:35:22
But we, you know, I

00:18:35:22 - 00:18:38:22
so my first deal was a YPO

00:18:38:26 - 00:18:40:28
so working buyout.

00:18:40:28 - 00:18:45:02
I agreed that based on performance of

00:18:45:02 - 00:18:51:02
and if I got them to a certain valuation, we'd then get the equity and I did that

00:18:51:02 - 00:18:54:02
as a joint venture with somebody who is more experienced than me.

00:18:54:09 - 00:18:59:04
And that gave me the confidence to go and have some of those conversations.

00:18:59:06 - 00:19:03:01
The second deal was from my Rolodex.

00:19:03:01 - 00:19:06:29
So after I did this course, I opened up my phone book

00:19:06:29 - 00:19:11:09
and I called somebody who I knew had bought an agency themselves

00:19:11:12 - 00:19:13:20
and so happened they were in the process of selling it.

00:19:13:20 - 00:19:16:22
Now they put it through a broker, and I wasn't

00:19:16:24 - 00:19:20:05
necessarily the person that they wanted to sell it to

00:19:20:05 - 00:19:23:11
because they wanted cash upfront and they wanted this out now.

00:19:23:13 - 00:19:28:00
But over the course of nine months, I just kept in touch.

00:19:28:00 - 00:19:29:29
I looked at the numbers, we had some meetings.

00:19:29:29 - 00:19:32:22
I asked more questions

00:19:32:22 - 00:19:36:00
and I convinced them that I could help them grow their business.

00:19:36:00 - 00:19:39:02
So it had been a bit of a high and declined

00:19:39:02 - 00:19:42:02
a little bit and they wanted to get it back to the glory days.

00:19:42:07 - 00:19:47:05
The three owners had all gone through quite a lot of personal trauma

00:19:47:07 - 00:19:53:01
and just wanted to get on with their lives and not have to have the extra worry

00:19:53:01 - 00:19:58:18
of the business they'd hired in an MD who wasn't working out

00:19:58:20 - 00:20:04:05
and they'd had two previous offers, one which they walked away

00:20:04:05 - 00:20:07:03
from just after COVID, which was a nice offer,

00:20:07:03 - 00:20:09:25
and that was the number in their head As a result.

00:20:09:25 - 00:20:13:06
And they'd had another offer in that nine months.

00:20:13:08 - 00:20:16:24
But when the Trump tariffs landed, that company,

00:20:16:24 - 00:20:19:27
who was a French company, walked away

00:20:20:00 - 00:20:21:25
and they walked away because,

00:20:21:25 - 00:20:25:22
you know, it was an uncertain environment and

00:20:25:24 - 00:20:27:26
the clients were holding onto their budgets

00:20:27:26 - 00:20:29:28
and the revenue was going down.

00:20:29:28 - 00:20:33:09
But, you know, I knew them and I saw potential.

00:20:33:09 - 00:20:37:09
So there was they wanted me by the time we'd gone

00:20:37:09 - 00:20:40:21
through that nine month process, they really wanted me to run the business.

00:20:40:24 - 00:20:43:24
You've been the point of consistency for all that turbulence, I think.

00:20:44:00 - 00:20:44:17
Yeah.

00:20:44:17 - 00:20:47:22
And, and I and I think also talking

00:20:47:22 - 00:20:50:22
more about growth and about

00:20:50:28 - 00:20:52:24
money at that point as well.

00:20:52:24 - 00:20:58:03
So really looking at, you know, how the business could fare

00:20:58:06 - 00:21:01:15
a couple of times they they put money on the table, they said,

00:21:01:17 - 00:21:04:14
you know, couldn't you get a loan and puts money upfront and we could do this?

00:21:04:14 - 00:21:08:09
And I was like, no, you know, look, I'm not a money upfront person.

00:21:08:12 - 00:21:11:12
You know, if you want to do that deal, go somewhere else.

00:21:11:14 - 00:21:14:08
And they eventually just accepted it.

00:21:14:08 - 00:21:19:01
And we we've done a deal which

00:21:19:04 - 00:21:19:13
from a

00:21:19:13 - 00:21:22:23
structure point of view, let me say it's quite unusual

00:21:22:25 - 00:21:26:04
because in order to structure it,

00:21:26:06 - 00:21:31:09
we have kept them on as employees and consultants over a three year period.

00:21:31:11 - 00:21:34:24
We are giving them because ultimately what they wanted was an income,

00:21:35:01 - 00:21:36:27
but without having to worry about it.

00:21:36:27 - 00:21:38:19
And yes, they'd like a lump sum.

00:21:38:19 - 00:21:43:01
So three years they get an income without having to worry about it.

00:21:43:01 - 00:21:47:07
For me, that means it's about the capital gains tax and line.

00:21:47:12 - 00:21:49:15
So it's a little bit more cost effective.

00:21:49:15 - 00:21:52:20
There's a convertible loan note which I pay interest on.

00:21:52:20 - 00:21:54:21
Again, that's about capital gains tax.

00:21:54:21 - 00:22:00:16
And then there's the convertible loan itself matures in three years time.

00:22:00:18 - 00:22:04:03
And I'll either at that point have paid them off through profits

00:22:04:06 - 00:22:06:09
or anything left over. I could get debt.

00:22:06:09 - 00:22:08:03
But at that point I'll be a lot more confident

00:22:08:03 - 00:22:12:26
and it'll be the company that's getting the debt without pages. So

00:22:12:28 - 00:22:13:16
and if it

00:22:13:16 - 00:22:17:14
if I don't pay them off that's back shares and they've got that problem again.

00:22:17:16 - 00:22:20:03
I mean that's actually a beautiful structure.

00:22:20:03 - 00:22:24:03
It's it worked it works really well that.

00:22:24:06 - 00:22:26:15
The downside risk for both sides that.

00:22:26:15 - 00:22:30:18
Yeah yeah yeah you know it's my time my effort

00:22:30:20 - 00:22:35:03
they're earning you know guaranteed money which they, you know, let's face it,

00:22:35:03 - 00:22:38:24
they weren't before because it was always dividends.

00:22:38:27 - 00:22:40:23
And so yeah, it's,

00:22:40:23 - 00:22:43:16
it's a nice little annuity for them.

00:22:43:16 - 00:22:46:24
And they get you in there helping them drive growth and think outside the box

00:22:46:24 - 00:22:50:10
and break through that glass ceiling that you mentioned earlier and do.

00:22:50:12 - 00:22:50:28
Yeah, yeah.

00:22:50:28 - 00:22:54:10
And I get I get evaluative consultants as well and they are

00:22:54:10 - 00:22:58:27
they've been very good ones a little bit more hands on

00:22:58:29 - 00:23:01:26
but you know as I said there's no empty and they're based up in Newcastle.

00:23:01:26 - 00:23:06:08
I'm Buckinghamshire so it's quite handy having somebody hands on.

00:23:06:10 - 00:23:07:06
But you know, once we

00:23:07:06 - 00:23:11:15
get through the first 12 months, slowly, each of them are,

00:23:11:15 - 00:23:15:10
you know, dropping away a little bit more and a little bit more ones already

00:23:15:15 - 00:23:19:19
much pretty much out of the business and mainly acting as board advisor.

00:23:19:21 - 00:23:23:14
One's a graphic designer and only working on specific projects

00:23:23:16 - 00:23:26:10
and the other ones, you know, probably will take

00:23:26:10 - 00:23:29:10
a little bit longer to drop out

00:23:29:13 - 00:23:30:05
yet. Understood.

00:23:30:05 - 00:23:35:11
And this is by design the the transition of these founders out of the business.

00:23:35:13 - 00:23:35:25
Yeah.

00:23:35:25 - 00:23:39:10
And also particularly because look you've got really big name clients

00:23:39:10 - 00:23:44:15
you know these are big international FMCG companies.

00:23:44:18 - 00:23:46:28
You don't want to split the nook.

00:23:46:28 - 00:23:48:03
It's got to be phased.

00:23:48:03 - 00:23:53:11
And nice to know that the founders aren't immediately, you know, off into the wind

00:23:53:13 - 00:23:56:13
that they recognize the need for that smoothness of transition.

00:23:56:18 - 00:24:01:07
Yeah, and I've left them with 12% equity, so three, 3% each.

00:24:01:07 - 00:24:05:16
So that if and when I sell, they will get an upside.

00:24:05:19 - 00:24:10:10
And so they're also invested in developing that and helping me develop the group

00:24:10:13 - 00:24:13:23
actively sort of saying, suggesting companies or contacts

00:24:13:23 - 00:24:16:17
that I might want to get in touch with.

00:24:16:17 - 00:24:17:21
Great.

00:24:17:21 - 00:24:23:12
so you've done a fabulous job of having them sort of in the strategy of the

00:24:23:12 - 00:24:26:12
of the overall kind of group build out,

00:24:26:14 - 00:24:29:09
which is also quite difficult to achieve.

00:24:29:09 - 00:24:31:25
Just just on that because of this,

00:24:31:25 - 00:24:34:25
you know, post integration

00:24:35:01 - 00:24:39:01
or post-merger integration type of challenge with agencies

00:24:39:02 - 00:24:42:18
because you don't want to change their you say, well, you know, their essence,

00:24:42:25 - 00:24:43:10
but similar,

00:24:43:10 - 00:24:47:00
you want to get some economies out of, you know, some sort of standardization.

00:24:47:03 - 00:24:50:20
How do you how do you move

00:24:50:22 - 00:24:54:13
beyond sort of just ownership and into the team ness of

00:24:54:13 - 00:24:57:29
of these people joining something that's bigger than just their own silo?

00:24:58:06 - 00:25:04:04
How do you make sure they operate as a team rather than separate entities? So

00:25:04:06 - 00:25:04:28
I'll tell you when

00:25:04:28 - 00:25:07:28
I've done it, I think it's part of it, however.

00:25:08:04 - 00:25:11:21
So the three companies, one is a why buy one one?

00:25:11:21 - 00:25:12:22
I own 88%.

00:25:12:22 - 00:25:17:12
That one's based in Harrogate, one is based in Newcastle.

00:25:17:14 - 00:25:20:07
I have seen that

00:25:20:07 - 00:25:23:15
there are similarities between the two. Now

00:25:23:17 - 00:25:26:17
on the two, on the scale of it, you go well, one's in a FMCG shop

00:25:26:17 - 00:25:29:01
marketing, the other one's in automotive, there's nothing

00:25:29:01 - 00:25:31:05
but they have the same challenges.

00:25:31:05 - 00:25:35:26
You know, they, they, they have owners who

00:25:35:29 - 00:25:38:27
frankly need to delegate more.

00:25:38:27 - 00:25:42:05
You know, they have

00:25:42:08 - 00:25:46:01
growing businesses that they need to work out how to scale.

00:25:46:04 - 00:25:48:27
They have

00:25:48:27 - 00:25:51:22
finance challenges or, you know,

00:25:51:22 - 00:25:55:27
finance people or not people, but they need some.

00:25:55:29 - 00:25:59:24
They have creative teams, so graphic designers

00:25:59:24 - 00:26:03:21
and design versus artwork, etc., etc..

00:26:03:23 - 00:26:05:28
And so actually there are a few areas and by the way,

00:26:05:28 - 00:26:08:07
neither of them are very good at marketing themselves,

00:26:08:07 - 00:26:11:15
so they all have to share some similar challenges.

00:26:11:17 - 00:26:15:05
We've gone in and made certain

00:26:15:08 - 00:26:15:23
working

00:26:15:23 - 00:26:19:24
groups so marketing, I got one of that guys, one of our guys

00:26:19:24 - 00:26:23:17
to look at and map out what would marketing look like.

00:26:23:20 - 00:26:27:24
I've created Content generator

00:26:27:27 - 00:26:33:05
for them with my marketing understanding so that each of them have a similar model.

00:26:33:05 - 00:26:37:16
And then we're automating that into the lead generation at the back end.

00:26:37:18 - 00:26:41:07
So a little working group, similar structure,

00:26:41:10 - 00:26:44:15
you know, but working so that they, they, they're not doing it alone.

00:26:44:15 - 00:26:46:27
There's a little bit of accountability, there's a little bit of a,

00:26:46:27 - 00:26:48:26
look what I've done.

00:26:48:26 - 00:26:52:09
I got their leadership teams together

00:26:52:11 - 00:26:56:15
for a day and the owners together to talk through

00:26:56:17 - 00:27:01:20
their journeys, their frustrations, their and share back

00:27:01:23 - 00:27:03:24
very openly, you know,

00:27:03:24 - 00:27:07:12
which were was quite eye opening,

00:27:07:15 - 00:27:12:12
but also created that sense of we're in it together.

00:27:12:14 - 00:27:14:00
You know, we're not taking them over.

00:27:14:00 - 00:27:16:18
They're not taking us over. But there are resources there.

00:27:16:18 - 00:27:19:18
So we have an h.r. Person

00:27:19:19 - 00:27:20:27
and they don't.

00:27:20:27 - 00:27:23:07
And so when they are upgrading their contracts,

00:27:23:07 - 00:27:26:22
which then the process of doing to change a few things, they're sending it over

00:27:26:22 - 00:27:32:04
to our guys to have a look at and get the expert opinion or second opinion.

00:27:32:06 - 00:27:34:25
We have a finance director and a bookkeeper.

00:27:34:25 - 00:27:36:14
They just have a bookkeeper.

00:27:36:14 - 00:27:37:24
I'm looking at some of their

00:27:37:24 - 00:27:41:03
the way they manage their cashflow and saying, I think my finance

00:27:41:03 - 00:27:44:03
director needs to look at how you're doing some of these things.

00:27:44:11 - 00:27:48:14
So we're starting that process of being helpful to each other

00:27:48:17 - 00:27:51:17
without me mandating anything.

00:27:51:21 - 00:27:55:08
And that sense of team is already working.

00:27:55:10 - 00:27:58:04
Validated for you. This, this

00:27:58:06 - 00:28:00:20
louder together piece this

00:28:00:20 - 00:28:04:00
because you've started this with an assumption that actually

00:28:04:02 - 00:28:07:29
these people want to be part of something bigger and collaborate.

00:28:08:02 - 00:28:10:21
Has this kind of the sort of team workshop,

00:28:10:21 - 00:28:14:08
you know, openness, putting them together in the room, having them cross-pollinate.

00:28:14:08 - 00:28:16:20
Has that validated that original thesis?

00:28:16:20 - 00:28:20:19
Yeah, and I've spoken to them and, you know, I'm a big feedback

00:28:20:19 - 00:28:24:25
person, so, you know, I've asked them all and it did both ways,

00:28:24:25 - 00:28:29:09
you know, for, for my decide lot who were just a little bit further.

00:28:29:12 - 00:28:31:22
To the north. The Newcastle Opera.

00:28:31:22 - 00:28:31:28
Yeah.

00:28:31:28 - 00:28:35:19
That Newcastle and they kind of went, gosh we,

00:28:35:19 - 00:28:37:24
we kind of didn't realize how far we'd come

00:28:37:24 - 00:28:40:15
because when we were talking to them we recognized where we were,

00:28:40:15 - 00:28:45:02
you know, under a year ago, nine months ago

00:28:45:04 - 00:28:46:06
with the, the other

00:28:46:06 - 00:28:49:25
guys, they, they were, they realized that also that, you know,

00:28:50:02 - 00:28:55:15
the problems that they were having in terms of trying to do their job

00:28:55:15 - 00:28:59:12
and trying to be a leadership team, which I'd never done before,

00:28:59:14 - 00:29:02:22
having tensions between themselves and the owner.

00:29:03:00 - 00:29:04:27
They were like, well, we're not the only ones who've done this.

00:29:04:27 - 00:29:08:16
And we can see other people who have been through this and done it.

00:29:08:19 - 00:29:12:16
And so yeah, I think it really has.

00:29:12:18 - 00:29:15:15
They've come away

00:29:15:15 - 00:29:17:07
feeling like they're

00:29:17:07 - 00:29:20:07
part of something bigger without being taken over.

00:29:20:11 - 00:29:23:12
There is still some communication to be done and I think less

00:29:23:12 - 00:29:26:12
with the leadership teams and more with the rest of the teams because,

00:29:26:14 - 00:29:30:06
you know, they're rumors when they see, you know, the two coming together saying,

00:29:30:09 - 00:29:33:17
are we being bought by is Tonya buying us what's happening?

00:29:33:19 - 00:29:37:07
And I was like, No, this is just us working together and collaborating.

00:29:37:07 - 00:29:39:04
You still the whole caboodle, you know?

00:29:39:04 - 00:29:42:09
But this is a way of helping you grow faster.

00:29:42:11 - 00:29:44:10
And that's the Harrogate one, the whole caboodle.

00:29:44:10 - 00:29:47:17
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So,

00:29:47:20 - 00:29:49:14
Roger Hargreaves.

00:29:49:14 - 00:29:51:27
Yes. Tell me the story.

00:29:51:27 - 00:29:55:25
Well, so they're the group was originally

00:29:55:25 - 00:30:01:11
the Hans Lonsdale Hans Group and Lonsdale.

00:30:01:11 - 00:30:05:27
Hans was a quite a well-known creative and designer

00:30:06:00 - 00:30:10:28
and they in the, in their team they did a buyout

00:30:11:01 - 00:30:13:23
and the copyright writer was Roger Hargreaves.

00:30:13:23 - 00:30:15:09
Now he was a copywriter.

00:30:15:09 - 00:30:18:29
He was known as the copyright because it was really shirt design work

00:30:19:05 - 00:30:20:09
because he couldn't draw,

00:30:20:09 - 00:30:22:28
which is why he was known for when he was explaining stuff,

00:30:22:28 - 00:30:25:05
he would draw, draw these little figures a little bit.

00:30:25:05 - 00:30:27:26
And that's where all of that came up from.

00:30:27:26 - 00:30:30:00
So little Miss and Mr.

00:30:30:00 - 00:30:31:13
Mean.

00:30:31:13 - 00:30:33:10
Exactly so and.

00:30:33:10 - 00:30:36:04
Very much of the squiggly line

00:30:36:04 - 00:30:37:23
kind of.

00:30:37:23 - 00:30:38:08
Exactly.

00:30:38:08 - 00:30:43:00
And so they they the group actually

00:30:43:02 - 00:30:45:24
the opposite of what we're doing the group divested

00:30:45:24 - 00:30:49:07
and they sold off the UK business,

00:30:49:09 - 00:30:52:07
they had a London office in a Newcastle office and eventually

00:30:52:07 - 00:30:56:00
they sold the London office and they really focused in on on Newcastle

00:30:56:00 - 00:30:57:00
as their base and.

00:30:57:00 - 00:30:59:06
That became decided in the end. Yeah.

00:30:59:06 - 00:31:01:20
So it went through various, it was Lonsdale hands

00:31:01:20 - 00:31:04:22
and it became the design group which was great name actually.

00:31:04:26 - 00:31:05:13
Yeah.

00:31:05:13 - 00:31:08:09
They changed it to decide

00:31:08:09 - 00:31:11:02
back in 2015, I think 2014.

00:31:11:02 - 00:31:11:28
Something really.

00:31:11:28 - 00:31:14:13
Nice. What a great origin story.

00:31:14:13 - 00:31:15:18
Absolutely. Love that it. Is.

00:31:15:18 - 00:31:19:16
And they do nothing with it and it's going to be part of my marketing plan

00:31:19:16 - 00:31:23:07
at some point when I find somebody other than me to do the marketing.

00:31:23:10 - 00:31:27:25
Yeah, well, I mean, acknowledging that past that, that journey, I think it's

00:31:27:27 - 00:31:32:03
it just shows the longevity of how they've been serving customers over time.

00:31:32:03 - 00:31:34:28
And it always and they evoke it.

00:31:34:28 - 00:31:38:08
They share this wonderful 20 minute video that's on YouTube,

00:31:38:08 - 00:31:39:27
which is, you know, in typical clipped,

00:31:39:27 - 00:31:46:00
very English, you know, and here we have and they they had all of these

00:31:46:02 - 00:31:46:26
what looked like

00:31:46:26 - 00:31:50:08
computers at the time which just beads on a you know

00:31:50:09 - 00:31:54:25
and you make the beads longer or shorter depending on where the project was.

00:31:54:25 - 00:31:57:09
So it was a way of visualizing Project Progress.

00:31:57:09 - 00:31:59:28
my goodness. And they. Felt.

00:31:59:28 - 00:32:00:21
Yeah, exactly.

00:32:00:21 - 00:32:05:26
And then they had like a lightbox so that when they did own packaging,

00:32:05:26 - 00:32:07:25
they'd put the packaging into the light box

00:32:07:25 - 00:32:12:09
and they'd be able to change the lighting depending on what retail environment was.

00:32:12:09 - 00:32:13:24
So, you know, Tesco might have different

00:32:13:24 - 00:32:17:18
lighting to Asda nowadays and they'd look at this in this light box

00:32:17:25 - 00:32:21:28
to make sure that their design showed up well on, on, on, on shelves.

00:32:21:28 - 00:32:23:26
So it was very cool to watch.

00:32:23:26 - 00:32:25:00
Yeah, it sounds like it.

00:32:25:00 - 00:32:28:17
I have to have to have a look at some point.

00:32:28:19 - 00:32:31:08
So you've spoken to a lot of

00:32:31:08 - 00:32:33:27
small and mid-sized agency owners.

00:32:33:27 - 00:32:34:19
Yeah.

00:32:34:19 - 00:32:38:17
And I should imagine that deal flow has been quite a large funnel

00:32:38:20 - 00:32:42:01
to get to the sort of ones that you've got over the line.

00:32:42:03 - 00:32:47:07
How have you observed any change in the owners mindset towards

00:32:47:07 - 00:32:50:15
how they think about succession and divestment

00:32:50:15 - 00:32:54:29
opportunities now?

00:32:55:01 - 00:32:58:00
I think there's more awareness now,

00:32:58:00 - 00:33:00:22
and I've even seen that in the last 12 months.

00:33:00:22 - 00:33:03:21
There's been a lot of activity from people like us, right?

00:33:03:21 - 00:33:10:27
So owners are having a lot of conversations and they're open to explore.

00:33:10:27 - 00:33:13:28
And so as somebody doing

00:33:13:28 - 00:33:18:07
that is harder to cut through, but be

00:33:18:09 - 00:33:20:23
they they have a choice

00:33:20:23 - 00:33:23:16
now, whether they think they have choice, right?

00:33:23:16 - 00:33:26:24
We all know that with small businesses, the choices are fairly limited

00:33:26:24 - 00:33:29:25
in terms of people financing these things.

00:33:29:28 - 00:33:31:03
Regrettably.

00:33:31:03 - 00:33:37:00
Yeah, but but they are they are thinking it through more and they are

00:33:37:02 - 00:33:38:08
starting to plan.

00:33:38:08 - 00:33:41:04
They tend to plan 2 to 3 years out

00:33:41:04 - 00:33:46:14
and they'll be happy to jump earlier if the deal's right.

00:33:46:16 - 00:33:50:09
But I tend to have two conversations, one of which is that as in

00:33:50:10 - 00:33:54:28
I'm planning to leave and the second of which is I'm trying to scale

00:33:55:00 - 00:33:57:22
and I'm you know, those tend to be businesses

00:33:57:22 - 00:34:01:27
turning over somewhere around either either side of the 1 million.

00:34:02:00 - 00:34:06:21
And they they're wanting to get to that next phase.

00:34:06:23 - 00:34:11:17
And those those are also interesting but more interesting in terms of bolt ons

00:34:11:17 - 00:34:16:05
or if I think that by collaborating, we can really accelerate

00:34:16:05 - 00:34:17:24
that client list for them.

00:34:17:24 - 00:34:21:08
Yeah.

00:34:21:10 - 00:34:23:09
Are you having to massively

00:34:23:09 - 00:34:26:23
differentiate yourself from these emerging

00:34:26:25 - 00:34:31:02
other kind of acquirers and emerging groups?

00:34:31:05 - 00:34:33:09
And if so, how?

00:34:33:09 - 00:34:35:20
From a service mindset perspective?

00:34:35:20 - 00:34:38:02
Yeah, So, so

00:34:38:02 - 00:34:41:17
our positioning is, is trying to differentiate.

00:34:41:17 - 00:34:46:18
So the for me the thought is,

00:34:46:21 - 00:34:49:28
yes, I could just pull together a bunch of arbitrary

00:34:50:01 - 00:34:53:24
marketing companies and put a lid on them

00:34:53:24 - 00:34:56:24
and roll up the numbers and it would look good.

00:34:56:25 - 00:34:59:16
Maybe odds, you know,

00:34:59:16 - 00:35:02:14
give them all the same financial reporting system and our policies.

00:35:02:14 - 00:35:04:28
And then it's a group.

00:35:04:28 - 00:35:07:23
I think that

00:35:07:23 - 00:35:11:20
if you understand what your buyers are after, as in who's

00:35:11:20 - 00:35:15:19
going to buy this from me eventually, I think they want more than that.

00:35:15:21 - 00:35:20:10
And that's where I'm really leaning into the collaboration piece.

00:35:20:10 - 00:35:24:17
So trying to get a functioning group of people who see this

00:35:24:17 - 00:35:28:10
as a group that they are part of and they are

00:35:28:13 - 00:35:34:09
and benefiting from rather than just a roll up.

00:35:34:11 - 00:35:36:29
But also preserving their identity in the process,

00:35:36:29 - 00:35:40:23
which is not easy to be able to kind of, you know, convey that you're going

00:35:40:23 - 00:35:44:04
to be able to get economies, you're going to be able to focus on scaling,

00:35:44:10 - 00:35:47:06
but at the same time, we're going to keep your units, we're going to keep

00:35:47:06 - 00:35:49:05
what's defined your agency.

00:35:49:05 - 00:35:49:16
Yeah.

00:35:49:16 - 00:35:54:17
And that's why having a common vision

00:35:54:19 - 00:35:57:26
helps, but a common vision that celebrates that.

00:35:57:26 - 00:36:03:18
So the brilliant lone loud it together is is that rallying cry cry.

00:36:03:20 - 00:36:06:02
And it's about

00:36:06:02 - 00:36:10:19
being the best at what you do and wanting to go better,

00:36:10:22 - 00:36:15:15
but also working out that, you know, if you are a brilliant soloist, guitarist,

00:36:15:18 - 00:36:18:25
doing it on your own probably isn't going to sell you many records,

00:36:18:25 - 00:36:22:14
but doing it as part of a band and being in the Who is.

00:36:22:16 - 00:36:26:02
So, you know, it's that kind of feeling.

00:36:26:04 - 00:36:29:03
You can see my music background coming.

00:36:29:03 - 00:36:31:22
Yeah, I love the analogy. Was pretty. Poor.

00:36:31:22 - 00:36:36:29
It brought it to life for me with Roger Daltrey

00:36:37:01 - 00:36:40:00
possibly

00:36:40:00 - 00:36:42:28
So biggest challenge so far in putting this group together.

00:36:42:28 - 00:36:49:13
What would you say that had to be.

00:36:49:15 - 00:36:53:13
The speed at which the speed and consistency

00:36:53:13 - 00:36:59:01
at which you get the owners to buy into the changes.

00:36:59:03 - 00:37:03:03
So whether you own it like I've taken over,

00:37:03:10 - 00:37:07:13
decide it's easier because ostensibly, you know, I'm the owner,

00:37:07:15 - 00:37:11:03
but I still have to get the hearts and minds of

00:37:11:05 - 00:37:14:29
the shareholders who are still and the ex owners is Exxon.

00:37:15:01 - 00:37:18:01
Is this still shareholders is still in there

00:37:18:01 - 00:37:19:20
with the YPO.

00:37:19:20 - 00:37:23:05
That's been harder because I know what needs to be done.

00:37:23:05 - 00:37:27:08
But he will you know stuff like this happens right

00:37:27:10 - 00:37:31:07
And that stuff is very much

00:37:31:09 - 00:37:34:27
life, you know so in the in the last nine

00:37:34:29 - 00:37:38:23
yeah, nine months we've had three major illnesses

00:37:38:23 - 00:37:43:08
and personal crises that have taken key people out of the business

00:37:43:10 - 00:37:47:14
and have thrown the organization emotionally and other things.

00:37:47:16 - 00:37:52:16
So one guy had a brain hemorrhage and another guy's had bladder cancer.

00:37:52:18 - 00:37:56:23
You know, we've had people who have had other personal issues

00:37:56:25 - 00:38:00:19
and it's just those things

00:38:00:20 - 00:38:04:20
stroke, throw the rhythm right or something.

00:38:04:20 - 00:38:07:09
Some opportunity comes in, which is really good opportunity.

00:38:07:09 - 00:38:10:09
This slightly pivots, the organization is focus,

00:38:10:14 - 00:38:14:05
and then the taking the eye off the ball or some of the other things.

00:38:14:07 - 00:38:18:21
So there's that consistency.

00:38:18:23 - 00:38:21:04
If it was just me doing it and being able

00:38:21:04 - 00:38:24:11
to sort of mandate, okay, guys, we need to do this.

00:38:24:11 - 00:38:28:14
This is where we're putting in the leadership team meeting to putting in the

00:38:28:16 - 00:38:32:24
these KPIs where, you know, adjusting how we look at the financials.

00:38:32:28 - 00:38:35:28
We're teaching these guys about cash flow.

00:38:36:04 - 00:38:39:19
I started talking a lot of that in April, and some of it's only

00:38:39:19 - 00:38:43:10
just happening now in September because I got in the way.

00:38:43:13 - 00:38:44:17
Event.

00:38:44:17 - 00:38:48:01
And now they're tripping over themselves because they're so busy

00:38:48:01 - 00:38:50:12
because their business is taking off, but they don't have

00:38:50:12 - 00:38:54:06
some of these fail safes in place properly yet.

00:38:54:09 - 00:38:58:18
So I think that to me is, is the hardest thing.

00:38:58:20 - 00:39:01:12
And yep,

00:39:01:12 - 00:39:06:09
we like to think that we can gradually introduce necessary change,

00:39:06:09 - 00:39:09:09
but sometimes it all happens in bursts, doesn't it, For whatever.

00:39:09:16 - 00:39:10:18
Whatever it. Does.

00:39:10:18 - 00:39:11:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:39:11:19 - 00:39:14:16
And you know, availability and holidays and stuff like that.

00:39:14:16 - 00:39:16:29
So the year is very condensed in reality, isn't it.

00:39:16:29 - 00:39:22:03
You know, you get to two quarters of, you know, go gung ho productivity.

00:39:22:05 - 00:39:25:00
Yeah. I find.

00:39:25:03 - 00:39:25:24
So let's

00:39:25:24 - 00:39:29:15
talk about your framework then if you don't mind.

00:39:29:18 - 00:39:32:27
You've got almost like a sequential

00:39:33:00 - 00:39:35:21
talking about the fit to the capital

00:39:35:21 - 00:39:38:26
transformation accountability.

00:39:38:28 - 00:39:41:19
Please you know describe it for us

00:39:41:19 - 00:39:45:29
if you don't mind, and tell us which of those steps has been

00:39:46:01 - 00:39:48:15
the biggest sort of

00:39:48:15 - 00:39:49:23
lift.

00:39:49:23 - 00:39:51:00
Yeah.

00:39:51:00 - 00:39:55:06
So I think the you

00:39:55:08 - 00:39:59:06
we talk we talk about it in terms of.

00:39:59:09 - 00:40:00:17
GROSS Right.

00:40:00:17 - 00:40:05:05
So it's getting the right fit.

00:40:05:05 - 00:40:09:09
So making sure and we've talked this in terms of, you know, are they great?

00:40:09:09 - 00:40:13:02
Are they the right size that you're looking for?

00:40:13:05 - 00:40:15:04
Do they have that collaboration?

00:40:15:04 - 00:40:20:01
But getting the right fit upfront and making sure that they

00:40:20:02 - 00:40:24:01
you know, they're right for the group and you're ready to work away,

00:40:24:03 - 00:40:27:21
walk away if you need to.

00:40:27:24 - 00:40:28:27
You're you

00:40:28:27 - 00:40:34:27
will then in terms of you agree that deal,

00:40:34:29 - 00:40:36:23
the first thing you're going to have to do in that

00:40:36:23 - 00:40:40:08
agreement is is in some way restructure capital.

00:40:40:10 - 00:40:43:22
So i.e., how do you pay for it?

00:40:43:24 - 00:40:47:22
And I'm talking that about restructuring capital, because for me

00:40:47:24 - 00:40:52:01
generally, I'm not going and getting outside investors

00:40:52:01 - 00:40:56:04
or I don't have a pot of money that I'm doing it, but it can involve that as well.

00:40:56:04 - 00:40:59:13
So, you know, we model out the various deal options.

00:40:59:13 - 00:41:03:02
We look at it in terms of how

00:41:03:04 - 00:41:06:18
it what the owners are after and how what the owners are after

00:41:06:18 - 00:41:10:25
sometimes changes to your advantage, as I talked about with these guys.

00:41:10:27 - 00:41:13:16
So making sure that all of that

00:41:13:16 - 00:41:16:26
sits and is legal as well.

00:41:16:26 - 00:41:20:21
So, you know, I've had to get HMRC sign off to the deal structure

00:41:20:21 - 00:41:25:15
that we've just done with decide which fortunately they agreed.

00:41:25:17 - 00:41:28:10
And then once you once you're in,

00:41:28:10 - 00:41:31:20
you have that initial period, which is great, I've done this deal.

00:41:31:20 - 00:41:33:19
Now what

00:41:33:19 - 00:41:36:18
amount to me is a little bit of business as usual because it's

00:41:36:18 - 00:41:38:18
what I've done in all my past work.

00:41:38:18 - 00:41:42:10
But you essentially go in and observe and orient

00:41:42:12 - 00:41:45:18
and that's typically around three months.

00:41:45:18 - 00:41:48:25
If you know the business well, you can do more quickly.

00:41:48:25 - 00:41:52:17
But you're reviewing the details of the panel, the client, mix

00:41:52:17 - 00:41:57:01
the pipeline, try and talking to all of the the

00:41:57:03 - 00:42:00:18
the key people at least, and ideally all of the people in the company

00:42:00:18 - 00:42:05:15
to get an assessment of the culture, what's working, what's not.

00:42:05:18 - 00:42:07:07
And then

00:42:07:07 - 00:42:10:29
very quickly for me turning that into a strategy and a plan

00:42:11:02 - 00:42:14:13
and developing that out and giving the various team members

00:42:14:13 - 00:42:20:21
ownership over that plan and making them accountable for the outcomes,

00:42:20:23 - 00:42:21:27
you then have the W

00:42:21:27 - 00:42:25:24
so we've gone the get alignment

00:42:25:26 - 00:42:28:10
gets or I get the right fit restructured capital,

00:42:28:10 - 00:42:31:11
observe and orient and then it's about winning hearts and minds.

00:42:31:11 - 00:42:36:27
And the winning hearts and minds place is

00:42:36:29 - 00:42:40:13
it's all very well and good having your own plan.

00:42:40:13 - 00:42:41:14
But unless the people

00:42:41:14 - 00:42:45:21
who are going to be executing that plan really believe in it, it's worth nothing.

00:42:45:24 - 00:42:50:23
And so communicating about who you are, what you're doing there,

00:42:50:28 - 00:42:56:06
what your vision is, what's your story, what's the plan,

00:42:56:09 - 00:42:58:21
and doing that through regular sessions, you know,

00:42:58:21 - 00:43:01:21
all hands townhall sessions,

00:43:01:24 - 00:43:05:27
embedding it in in your leadership and your your meeting rhythm,

00:43:06:00 - 00:43:10:06
making sure that your KPIs are all linked up to that plan

00:43:10:06 - 00:43:14:26
and that you're communicating progress on a regular rhythm

00:43:14:29 - 00:43:19:09
becomes part of that winning hearts and minds and also continuing to listen.

00:43:19:09 - 00:43:24:25
So I had one recently where I stood up and very happily said, you know,

00:43:24:25 - 00:43:29:02
we're going to, you know, essentially double the business in five years.

00:43:29:04 - 00:43:32:01
And this one guy was panicked and he has a history

00:43:32:01 - 00:43:35:25
of health problems and he was worried about getting overworked.

00:43:35:28 - 00:43:39:00
And so, you know, just being able to listen to that taken on board and,

00:43:39:00 - 00:43:44:16
you know, reassure him that it also meant that we're going to increase the,

00:43:44:19 - 00:43:48:05
you know, the staffing and if there were any issues,

00:43:48:05 - 00:43:51:18
he needed to start talking to us and letting us know

00:43:51:18 - 00:43:54:18
so that we could help avoid that, because that wasn't part of our culture.

00:43:54:21 - 00:43:59:11
You know, we weren't going to be pushing people until they broke.

00:43:59:13 - 00:43:59:27
So then

00:43:59:27 - 00:44:02:27
you get into TI, which is transforming systems.

00:44:02:27 - 00:44:04:09
So, you know, once you've got the hearts

00:44:04:09 - 00:44:07:11
and minds, you get in there and you do what you need to do.

00:44:07:11 - 00:44:10:22
If you've got to standardize finances, you've got to implement

00:44:10:22 - 00:44:14:25
any CRM diop's, anything like that.

00:44:14:28 - 00:44:17:15
Key is also implementing SFP.

00:44:17:15 - 00:44:23:15
So operating practices so that

00:44:23:17 - 00:44:27:00
particularly, you know, from a sale point of view, they're all,

00:44:27:02 - 00:44:31:10
all that governance is is documented

00:44:31:13 - 00:44:34:12
setting up group reporting as well so that as part of the group

00:44:34:12 - 00:44:37:27
it all comes up at a similar level.

00:44:37:29 - 00:44:40:29
And then the final bit is obviously holding yourself

00:44:40:29 - 00:44:44:10
accountable and holding them accountable so that you can harvest value.

00:44:44:10 - 00:44:46:25
So the H and growth.

00:44:46:25 - 00:44:49:13
And that's you know, we talked about it a little bit,

00:44:49:13 - 00:44:53:06
but tracking the monthly KPIs, reviewing them quarterly,

00:44:53:08 - 00:44:58:09
making sure you have board meetings, leadership reviews,

00:44:58:11 - 00:44:59:11
identifying

00:44:59:11 - 00:45:02:25
optimization or divestment opportunities as you go

00:45:03:02 - 00:45:07:08
and really getting that collaborative

00:45:07:10 - 00:45:12:03
environment for for those conversations.

00:45:12:06 - 00:45:14:20
A lot of a lot of blur, but it's basically growth.

00:45:14:20 - 00:45:16:26
So, well, it's it's a playbook

00:45:16:26 - 00:45:19:29
and it's a nice mnemonic for a playbook that takes you from

00:45:19:29 - 00:45:24:05
let's make sure we've got the right people in the right deal

00:45:24:08 - 00:45:27:23
structure and the right people in the in the deal

00:45:27:26 - 00:45:30:12
right way through to how do we scale this thing

00:45:30:12 - 00:45:34:22
and how do we all that scaling of the business that that future success.

00:45:34:22 - 00:45:38:14
It's really nice Is that is that your work in putting that together or.

00:45:38:15 - 00:45:42:24
Again yes me me and Jack get spending few hours together.

00:45:42:27 - 00:45:43:18
I love it.

00:45:43:18 - 00:45:45:00
It's the sort of thing that people can get behind,

00:45:45:00 - 00:45:49:00
you know, in a kind of traction EOC kind of way. I like it.

00:45:49:02 - 00:45:49:29
So armed

00:45:49:29 - 00:45:53:28
with that one of wisdom for anyone considering buying

00:45:53:28 - 00:45:57:18
or rolling up some small businesses, maybe in the agency space, maybe not.

00:45:57:18 - 00:46:00:24
But if you if someone's coming at this without a finance

00:46:00:24 - 00:46:03:29
background and, you know, with an operational experience,

00:46:04:06 - 00:46:08:06
what's the one nugget of wisdom that they should hold in mind?

00:46:08:09 - 00:46:13:05
The nugget that I'm giving myself now is I think you can start off by yourself

00:46:13:07 - 00:46:18:02
as in or with a partner, but I think find the right partner.

00:46:18:02 - 00:46:21:13
You know, I over the last year have realized

00:46:21:13 - 00:46:24:13
that I need a more strategic finance person.

00:46:24:20 - 00:46:28:08
I think I've found that person we will see.

00:46:28:10 - 00:46:31:19
But I'm quite excited

00:46:31:22 - 00:46:36:05
that, you know, if it comes off well, we'll see.

00:46:36:08 - 00:46:36:24
Yeah, great.

00:46:36:24 - 00:46:41:02
So the the unstoppable team of a strong CEO

00:46:41:06 - 00:46:45:03
and a highly competent, innovative CFO,

00:46:45:05 - 00:46:48:11
the Thelma Louise or whichever you wish to.

00:46:48:13 - 00:46:48:18
Yeah.

00:46:48:18 - 00:46:52:16
You know, I learned to read a PNL.

00:46:52:16 - 00:46:55:28
I own the PNL balance sheet and M&A

00:46:56:05 - 00:46:59:01
finance gets very complex quite quickly.

00:46:59:01 - 00:47:03:21
And so whilst I can I can understand it, it's not my natural comfort zone.

00:47:03:21 - 00:47:06:21
And so yeah, I need to partner.

00:47:06:21 - 00:47:09:29
I mean that's hugely common that

00:47:10:01 - 00:47:14:08
those two different still skill sets, you don't find them really in one individual.

00:47:14:11 - 00:47:17:25
So important to have that partnership I think, and great result

00:47:17:25 - 00:47:21:03
in finding someone that you can you can lean on there.

00:47:21:06 - 00:47:23:21
So we like to be forward looking in the M&A thing

00:47:23:21 - 00:47:28:10
and always ask our guests to think about what the next 12 months might look like.

00:47:28:10 - 00:47:32:00
You touched on I and the transformational impact of

00:47:32:04 - 00:47:36:16
AI on marketing a little while ago, and I know that with the whole caboodle

00:47:36:16 - 00:47:41:09
you've already brought to bear a phenomenal new product

00:47:41:12 - 00:47:45:11
that very much based in the AI tools that exist today.

00:47:45:13 - 00:47:47:27
I'd love to hear a bit more about that, or I'm sure our listeners would,

00:47:47:27 - 00:47:51:17
but how do you see that and other things influencing the next 12 months

00:47:51:17 - 00:47:52:21
for the group?

00:47:52:21 - 00:47:55:22
Yeah, I think that's a really good example of,

00:47:55:28 - 00:47:59:15
you know, identifying a problem and finding a solution.

00:47:59:18 - 00:48:02:09
So These guys have been known

00:48:02:09 - 00:48:07:02
in the industry for leading with AI and they've been doing that in terms

00:48:07:02 - 00:48:11:05
of digitizing the back end, the sales and marketing,

00:48:11:05 - 00:48:14:05
automating websites, their personalized etc.

00:48:14:06 - 00:48:17:25
and one of their clients or one of the people

00:48:17:25 - 00:48:23:07
using that back end came to them with an idea and they said, Look,

00:48:23:10 - 00:48:25:29
30% of our

00:48:25:29 - 00:48:30:20
cars on our in our dealership don't have photos on the website.

00:48:30:22 - 00:48:32:07
And that's a real problem for us.

00:48:32:07 - 00:48:36:18
And it takes a lot of time to get the car cleaned up, wait for thing,

00:48:36:18 - 00:48:38:03
you know, take a photo.

00:48:38:03 - 00:48:41:19
And even when you do, you know, the photo has got the reflection of the person

00:48:41:24 - 00:48:44:12
with camera in it. And you know, the lighting's a bit shit.

00:48:44:12 - 00:48:45:16
And by the way,

00:48:45:16 - 00:48:49:06
you know, we're in an industrial state and it's not very nice surrounding.

00:48:49:08 - 00:48:52:15
So they have done a they've created a new company

00:48:52:15 - 00:48:57:02
that, you know, how can we learn as a part of the uses

00:48:57:08 - 00:49:02:03
I to generate images of the car

00:49:02:05 - 00:49:06:22
down to the finest detail of what's the right interior what's the you know

00:49:06:27 - 00:49:11:13
so you they just put in the reg number and it brings it all out

00:49:11:15 - 00:49:14:13
and puts it in a wonderful background,

00:49:14:13 - 00:49:18:14
even do nice sales videos at the touch of a button.

00:49:18:17 - 00:49:20:14
They have developed that together.

00:49:20:14 - 00:49:22:12
They have been pre-selling it.

00:49:22:12 - 00:49:25:18
It is going amazing guns

00:49:25:20 - 00:49:29:14
and I think yeah, that's a real rocket.

00:49:29:16 - 00:49:34:09
So and what does that mean for the rest of marketing?

00:49:34:09 - 00:49:37:28
And you know, one of the things I got when the leadership teams got together

00:49:37:28 - 00:49:42:12
was them to run through all of their capabilities and try to get

00:49:42:12 - 00:49:45:19
that stimulating back and decide about what could we be doing.

00:49:45:21 - 00:49:49:23
You know, we produce a lot of E content, for example.

00:49:49:28 - 00:49:55:15
So we do pack designs, we do campaign ideas, but then you have to iterate.

00:49:55:15 - 00:49:59:07
That's across different forms of content and you know,

00:49:59:10 - 00:50:03:27
that can all probably be eight or, you know, a lot of it can.

00:50:03:29 - 00:50:08:03
And so, you know, just thinking about how do we improve

00:50:08:03 - 00:50:13:18
the productivity of our own systems, but also, you know, all the

00:50:13:20 - 00:50:14:09
other other

00:50:14:09 - 00:50:17:17
offerings that we could make in order to drive more awareness

00:50:17:17 - 00:50:21:29
or promotions or competitions or something in in the FMCG world.

00:50:22:01 - 00:50:24:28
So I think everyone needs to start looking

00:50:24:28 - 00:50:27:28
at what other people are doing

00:50:28:00 - 00:50:31:00
in your own industry, outside of the industry, and think about

00:50:31:00 - 00:50:34:18
how would I apply those of tools in my industry?

00:50:34:25 - 00:50:36:21
What could that make better?

00:50:36:21 - 00:50:39:27
And then find a partner who can make it happen?

00:50:39:29 - 00:50:42:29
Because that's that's the key is, you know, a lot of us think,

00:50:43:04 - 00:50:47:04
yeah, we can, we can do this, but not necessarily right now.

00:50:47:06 - 00:50:50:03
Yeah, but the way that the speed at which things are moving,

00:50:50:03 - 00:50:52:04
if you don't do it now, you'll get left behind. Right.

00:50:52:04 - 00:50:55:00
So but I would definitely say

00:50:55:03 - 00:50:56:21
the explainer videos

00:50:56:21 - 00:51:00:15
for the car dealerships that the whole caboodle come up with is incredible.

00:51:00:15 - 00:51:04:13
An absolute massive game changer for car dealerships that face that

00:51:04:19 - 00:51:09:11
very big administrative problem that you make go away with this new product.

00:51:09:11 - 00:51:09:26
So, yeah,

00:51:09:26 - 00:51:11:21
very exciting and speaks to what could be done

00:51:11:21 - 00:51:15:12
in other industries as well with AI generated video walkthroughs, etc.,

00:51:15:18 - 00:51:17:05
that are so tangibly real.

00:51:17:05 - 00:51:20:29
It's incredible how good and how many how big

00:51:20:29 - 00:51:24:29
would you like the group to be this time next year?

00:51:25:01 - 00:51:26:11
Sustainable growth versus

00:51:26:11 - 00:51:29:11
exponential growth.

00:51:29:14 - 00:51:30:20
I have my eye

00:51:30:20 - 00:51:34:17
on two significant acquisitions now,

00:51:34:17 - 00:51:38:25
which if I could complete those in the first six months of be very happy,

00:51:38:28 - 00:51:45:27
that would put us at four and our revenues at around about 16 million.

00:51:45:29 - 00:51:46:28
If I could get it up to

00:51:46:28 - 00:51:50:21
20 million by the end of the year, I'd be even happier.

00:51:50:23 - 00:51:54:18
And then we'll see four year rate that the ideal target

00:51:54:18 - 00:51:58:03
is getting our bit to about 10 million.

00:51:58:10 - 00:52:00:13
We'll see what happens.

00:52:00:13 - 00:52:04:02
Yeah, that is a huge unlock when you reach that milestone world you wish to.

00:52:04:02 - 00:52:07:21
There are lots of compounding opportunities to be had.

00:52:07:24 - 00:52:08:18
Great.

00:52:08:18 - 00:52:12:00
Well, so if an independent retirement

00:52:12:00 - 00:52:17:06
focused agency owner who is looking at their options

00:52:17:09 - 00:52:21:22
wishes to reach out and talk to you guys there in the works,

00:52:21:25 - 00:52:25:14
or if an acquisition entrepreneur wants to learn from your very

00:52:25:14 - 00:52:29:14
tangible, valuable experience, how can people reach you?

00:52:29:16 - 00:52:30:14
I'm on LinkedIn.

00:52:30:14 - 00:52:32:09
I'm Tonya Nagle.

00:52:32:09 - 00:52:34:21
If you

00:52:34:21 - 00:52:40:00
I check my DMS very regularly, so that's probably the easiest way.

00:52:40:02 - 00:52:40:14
Nice.

00:52:40:14 - 00:52:42:13
Will that make sure we include a link in the show notes?

00:52:42:13 - 00:52:44:25
Refer with your permission.

00:52:44:25 - 00:52:47:25
Tonya Nagle It has been an absolute pleasure

00:52:47:28 - 00:52:52:17
speaking with you and what an inspiration you are to have achieved

00:52:52:17 - 00:52:56:24
what you have with this Acquisition Entrepreneurship project

00:52:56:27 - 00:52:58:02
so quickly.

00:52:58:02 - 00:52:59:06
I know it might not seem that way,

00:52:59:06 - 00:53:02:26
but to have got the two deals under your belt in very quick succession

00:53:03:02 - 00:53:06:29
and to have them scaling at the rate that they are is is no mean feat and

00:53:07:03 - 00:53:07:22
highly laudable.

00:53:07:22 - 00:53:10:22
So well done and long may it continue

00:53:10:24 - 00:53:13:24
looking forward to seeing the next couple join the group.

00:53:14:00 - 00:53:17:07
And yeah, do keep us posted on your progress.

00:53:17:10 - 00:53:19:05
Thank you very much and thank you for having me.

00:53:19:05 - 00:53:20:23
It's been lots of fun.

00:53:20:23 - 00:53:21:15
it's fun.

00:53:21:15 - 00:53:25:17
It's been entirely mine, but thank you for sharing your wisdom with us today.

00:53:25:19 - 00:53:29:01
Listeners, Tune in next time for some more great content

00:53:29:01 - 00:53:32:12
and exciting conversations about the world of acquisition entrepreneurship.

00:53:32:12 - 00:53:38:21
But for now, keep on crunching by for now.

00:53:38:23 - 00:53:40:00
Super great.

00:53:40:00 - 00:53:40:29
I'll press the end button in a minute.

00:53:40:29 - 00:53:46:16
But when I do it, boosters are both out, so book bookmark it at 53 minutes.

00:53:46:18 - 00:53:48:06
Host That was awesome. It flew by.

00:53:48:06 - 00:53:52:24
I obviously need to truncate a little bit and any areas that you felt

00:53:52:26 - 00:53:54:12
were.

00:53:54:12 - 00:53:55:22
Up to you. I ramble.

00:53:55:22 - 00:53:58:22
I tend to ramble on and lose my train a little bit sometimes, but.

00:53:58:22 - 00:53:59:09
There was none of that.

00:53:59:09 - 00:54:00:00
I put you on the spot

00:54:00:00 - 00:54:01:12
a bit with the growth acronym

00:54:01:12 - 00:54:02:14
only. As you started to explain it,

00:54:02:14 - 00:54:04:13
did I work out that it was actually an abbreviation?

00:54:04:13 - 00:54:07:13
You know, an acronym abbreviation. So Yeah.

00:54:07:15 - 00:54:09:23
Apologies for that. And also what you don't.

00:54:09:23 - 00:54:11:22
Well, I think it's Pete Townsend. Idiot.

00:54:11:22 - 00:54:16:11
Yes. And I'm the point at which you said that I certainly went a bit.

00:54:16:14 - 00:54:17:24
I remember.

00:54:17:24 - 00:54:20:13
Yeah. Fatality is another example. Great.

00:54:20:13 - 00:54:22:24
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:22:24 - 00:54:25:21
It could have been any of them getting it looked at. Yeah. Yeah.

00:54:25:21 - 00:54:27:11
No biggie.

00:54:27:13 - 00:54:30:17
I have to run because I'm late to a 1 to 1 was okay.

00:54:30:18 - 00:54:31:00
No worries.

00:54:31:00 - 00:54:32:06
It's all. Thanks again.