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[SPEAKER_01]: Hey everybody, JJ Cooper, Jacob Rudder, a special emergency addition.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We really are breaking out the flashing sirens, the horns.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is a big deal.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We are here recording this on Saturday afternoon because the news broke this afternoon.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We've written about it, we've talked about it before, but it does seem like now that we are headed towards an announcement.

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[SPEAKER_01]: that the San Francisco Giants are hiring Tennessee Head Coach, Tony Vatelo, to become their manager.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to go up from being a coach to a manager because we haven't seen this before, but we're talking about you're going from college baseball to the big leagues, straight one jump, one leap, and we wanted to talk about that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So Jacob, you've obviously been following this,

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[SPEAKER_01]: or at least a week and a half, I guess is when the first word broke on this, how shocked are you, how surprised are you, but on and more importantly, what is your initial thoughts hearing that?

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is, again, we're not saying it's not finalized yet, but likely to be finalized.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I would say that on the, on the shot scale, I'm way up there right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is a very surprising development.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And this, I go back about two weeks and just think, you know, the conversation at the time when the news broke in the athletic that Tony Vitello was, and I quote, a long shot candidate, that it was exactly that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was a long shot candidate.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The giants were doing their due diligence.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They wanted to cast a wide net.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot of talk behind the scenes that a potential Bruce Boachy reunion

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[SPEAKER_00]: And Tony by Tello, to me at the time, based on the conversations I had with people who are around Tony, with people who are around the giants, was that including his name was realistic, but very far fetched in terms of its likelihood to develop into the actual higher that the giants were going to make.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So on that sense, I am stunned to see that this is where we're at.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, my initial reaction to this is that I think it is the optimal move if you are the San Francisco Giants.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Why not try something new?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, this is unconventional.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We are yet to see in really the history of baseball.

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[SPEAKER_00]: coaches jump from the division one level to the major league level and do so with great success.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Pat Murphy is obviously an example of somebody who has done really well after coaching in college, but that wasn't a your college coach and now a big league manager transition.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is not that, but I do think and you and I have specifically talked about this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: with the rate that players are getting drafted and then called up within their first two years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The player development timeline, specifically for the college player, is shorter than it's ever been.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're the giants, why not bring in somebody like Tony Laitelo, who has become a master?

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[SPEAKER_00]: of transfer portal recruiting, he is an elite identifier of talent at the college level.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if you know that you want to be bringing in college age talent in the draft and accelerating those guys to the big leagues as fast as you possibly can, why not bring in somebody who is as equipped as anybody to be able to manage young talent and win with it and identify that talent in the first place.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So to me, is this unconventional?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is there risk to this?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But does it

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm fascinated by it, but kind of going along what you're saying.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The, okay, so let's look at this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna start by looking at this from the Giants perspective and the higher for the Giants.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We will get to, we promise you, if you're a Tennessee fan and you wanna hear about what Tennessee's implications are, we're gonna get there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But starting on the major league side here, starting on the Giants side.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If this doesn't work,

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[SPEAKER_01]: The likelihood of why it doesn't work is, okay, the enormity of jumping even if you are a coach who can absolutely relate to players, who's absolutely personable, can make those connections, all these things, 100% true here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But, yeah, we could be reading a story, we could be reporting a story in a few years, but where it's like, well, what really what happened is is that once it turns sour,

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was that disconnect of your a college coach.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is the big leagues.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The kind of thing that, let's just be honest, is always gonna be there, but at the same time, if it goes well, quickly becomes immaterial, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is one of those things where

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's as much, I think it's kind of like a factor that if things go poorly becomes magnified and if things go well becomes inconsequential very quickly, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like we have seen managers from all different backgrounds, a lot of minor league experience, a lot of managerial experience and have success.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We've had seen the exact same thing fail miserably.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen

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[SPEAKER_01]: players like Stephen Vote was a player like an hour and a half ago and he's a successful manager.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Where you could say he didn't really have a long 10 year he was a catcher, a lot to that, but he did have a long 10 year of a apprenticeship to learn how to do this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He jumped almost right into it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen that we've seen literally x players hired who have no coaching or managerial experience, basically.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And again, that can work, it cannot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if it works, then it's like, that did matter.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if it doesn't work, then it's like, see, he didn't have the experience of whatever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of like if this works, it's going to be the sign that college coaches can work as major league manager straight to the jump.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if it does, then it'll be used as an example that it can't.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think in reality, much more, that's going to be about the talent that the giants have,

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[SPEAKER_01]: with Tony V. And it also has a much more to do with Tony Vetello than it does with can college coaches jump straight to the major leagues.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If he works, it doesn't mean that this is something that can work every time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if it fails, it doesn't mean that no no one else could do it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It just means that it didn't work here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But okay, so now you know Tony

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'll ask it this way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If this works, why will it work?

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[SPEAKER_01]: You talked about the one aspect of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But now let's talk about it also from the standpoint of the responsibilities of a major league manager and kind of the tell us experience running and succeeding at the absolute top level as a college coach.

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[SPEAKER_01]: To me, it's too full.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The first is that we know that the major league managerial job right now is different than what it used to be.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There is a lot more input from people who are not necessarily in the dugout.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You need to be able to comprehend and utilize analytics and the math of baseball a lot better than you probably have to even a decade ago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we do know that Tony Vitalo in this Tennessee staff has done that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They manage their team in the most modern way possible.

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[SPEAKER_00]: very heavily invested program in the analytics and the data, they utilize that to their advantage so they are not our cake whatsoever.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's important.

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[SPEAKER_00]: First and foremost, any higher than any major league team is making, especially if you're going to go get somebody who is 100% in experience at the professional level.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, there is an unquantifiable measure here that I think is very important to this higher.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that is that Tony Vitello has demonstrated over time the ability to relate to and improve

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[SPEAKER_00]: young talent.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He knows how to connect with the 21 to 24-year-old demographic that a lot of these young rebuilding majorly teams are going to be founded on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you are the giants, you're bringing in somebody who is an expert in relating to what we'll call the modern baseball player.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you are again, going to be accelerating talent as quickly as we're seeing to the major league level and you're the giants and you're trying to try something new and you're bringing in college draft eligible players, I think that Tony Vitello is a really good bet to be able to get those guys into a winning condition quickly and that starts upstairs in in the head.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that he does a really great job in influencing that exactly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: we said, the manager job at the big league level is actually much more focused, much less expansive than the job that he has had, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's where if you say, we'll kind of get into a little bit of the dynamics of this from, you know, from his perspective as well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I actually think in many ways you could argue that it is

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[SPEAKER_01]: A, I mean, obviously it's, you could argue it's a more difficult job in some ways from the standpoint of your major leagues, you know, even, I don't care what SEC program you're at.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the same thing as your major manager, but I would also say kind of what you talked about, you have much less control as a major league manager than you do as the head coach of a top notch division one program, because.

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[SPEAKER_01]: At Tennessee, he is, doesn't matter if they have a, you know, whether someone has a title of director of baseball ops, general manager, whatever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Tony's the GM.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He, Fatelo is the person who, to use the bill, parcels, you know, analogy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He buys the groceries and then he makes the meal, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: There is no player at Tennessee who Tony, Fatelo, has not evaluated.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Has not been part of, yes, we want to bring him on board.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then when they are there, there is,

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[SPEAKER_01]: He is the final decision maker on every significant decision that goes on, whether that's, are we gonna pull the picture, whether we are, are we going to swing away in this situation?

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, all these things that now, some of those decisions may be made by people under him, but they're all flowing through him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We know that a major league manager now is probably has the least power that major league managers, not probably.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's any real debate.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They have much less power than they've ever had at any point in the history of major league managers.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because it really did used to be.

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[SPEAKER_01]: did exist, but really on the flow chart, they kind of existed at best in a co-equal existence.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The president, there was no such thing as the president of the baseball operations at that point.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But the GM, if you go back to the KC Stangle and before days,

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[SPEAKER_01]: There were people who were in charge of bringing in the players, absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In some cases, the manager was kind of the most key decision maker on that as well, but we are talking about, like if you go back to the 30s,

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[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't have farm systems, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like the decision on, hey, are we going to purchase this player from this minor league team, often ran through the manager?

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[SPEAKER_01]: When it came to the lineup, that was the manager's decision and no one else is, and whatever decision a manager made in the game, he might have to defend it post game in the media scrum or whatever, but that was the end of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't someone then who would pull him aside and say,

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you left the starter in for an extra ining there and that probably cost us the game tonight.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk that through.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And again, even now, even by all accounts we have, even in the most collaborative processes between front offices and managers, there's really no such thing as the autocratic MLB manager now,

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[SPEAKER_01]: and fills out, or weaver style, fills out their lineup.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And this is my lineup.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you don't like it, you know, tough.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is all something where the manager is the public face.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the final, you know, in some cases, the final decision maker.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But in a process that is much more collaborative than it's ever been.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How much of a challenge do you think that's going to be?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because again, now this is the Giants or not, you know, we're not going to say that this is Buster Posey is a different president of baseball operations than the the the average MLB for an office at this point.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The fact that he would hire Tony Vatela kind of shows that he's looking to do things somewhat differently.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But even with that, there's no question that this is going to be now for him much more that he is part of a massive team, rather than he is the head of an organization.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How do you think the challenges in the opportunities are there?

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, first and foremost, I think it's going to be great for Tony because I do believe that anytime you take responsibilities off somebody's plate, it allows them to flourish in the areas where they were previously strong.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't need to worry about his teams and I L funds anymore.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There are people who are going to do that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: you don't need to worry about how much you're paying a free agent like you do in the transfer portal right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's a big deal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tony will have an opportunity if he becomes the Giants manager to focus on maximizing the team he has to win games and I would assume being a significant part because he would be an asset in my opinion in the draft prep process.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He knows college baseball as well as anybody.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the list of responsibilities beyond those things that I just said, and as you point it out, isn't very long.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He does have a chance here to just go purely try to win baseball games.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I've had conversations with coaches and college baseball that

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[SPEAKER_00]: are not candidates to go and jump up to the major league level.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they have said repeatedly, you know, I consider all the time is now the time for me to go and let this mid-major job that I have go by the wayside to maybe go take a high major assistant coach job because the responsibilities that are put on college coaches this day and age with NIL,

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[SPEAKER_00]: and the stressors of the NCAA and how that's been deteriorating over time and roster restrictions, none of those are things that Tony Vitalo will have to deal with.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you are him and you have an opportunity to go and manage a big league team and try and go win a world series and focus on all of the things that are required to be able to go do that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of like your chances.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a bet worth taking on yourself because he is a good baseball manager.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He knows how to go win games into your point.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of the main focus now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't have a lot of the headaches that are associated with college coaching.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it brings the best out of him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, we've always talked for theirs years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're cruding as a key component.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, now transfer portal is a key component.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But those are,

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[SPEAKER_01]: You could really say those are baseball aspects of the job, I think part of what you're hearing what you're talking about here is if you're a college coach, especially again, but even even at 10 to see wherever you are, but especially to be in major.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You're also a fundraiser, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: The thing that you don't have to do now, if you're a Tony Vatelo, is if you're the Giants Manager, there's never a day you wake up and say, like, hey, for us to do what we wanna do, you really have to line up some key donors to help fund what we need to do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to say, like, we're with you on this, but we've got to get the money to do it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: of the organization whose job it is to bring in the revenue, maximize revenue, all that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That again, all flows through the coach at a college program, in a lot of ways.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And let me bring this up too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: How nice is it going to be if you're Tony Vitello and at the end of the year, you don't need to worry about whether or not you have two things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: One, the funds to bring back to your best player is the NIL package strong enough.

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[SPEAKER_00]: to retain my most productive player.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to worry about Logan Web going and pursuing a better NIL deal, because Logan Web is under contract.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that contract was not something you had to negotiate.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So not only does he have to no longer be an NIL generator, he doesn't need to be an NIL distributor.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that is a massive factor in all of this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He can truly spend time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: on developing the players who he has in house, making sure that they get better year over year, and he's ensured that that is a multi-year process, which no longer exists in college sports.

17:38.591 --> 17:47.783
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're a college head coach right now and you bring in an ultra-talented freshman, there is no guarantee that he's going to be your ultra-talented sophomore a year later.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tony now would be stepping into a situation where your rookie is your sophomore player the next year, less your organization decides to trade them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a pretty enviable situation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you are a supremely talented player developer and somebody who does a great job of developing relationships with these players, Tony checks both of those boxes to me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is a much easier setup to make players better, especially when they're younger.

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[SPEAKER_01]: that also strikes me like if you said like on his end.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I know that there are some listeners viewers of this who go, is this decision like the major leagues versus college and I actually think like I do think.

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[SPEAKER_01]: One could craft the case that there are college coaches for whom it would be a bad idea from the standpoint of like, let's go back to your shop.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You shop for the groceries, you make the meal, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like you cook it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like you get, you are going from, I have complete control to I am a part of a much larger organization where I have less control.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That being said, the other key thing here is,

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're not saying, I would always tell you, like, I think that coaches as a general rule are extremely competitive.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anyone who's ever seen Tony Vatela would say, oh, you know, the fire of competition doesn't burn deeply, and it burns deeply there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I would also say, to me, I want your thought on this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is also kind of, maybe not.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get to Tennessee.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe not the perfect time for Tennessee, but for him kind of the perfect time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And what I mean by that is, is if you're gonna make this move, he's already done it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can try to add additional national titles.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But if you grew up and your dream was one day, I'm going to win it all in Omaha.

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[SPEAKER_01]: My team's gonna dog pile.

19:46.451 --> 19:47.933
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna hoist the trophy.

19:49.297 --> 19:51.419
[SPEAKER_01]: The second one's great, the third one's great.

19:51.720 --> 19:56.385
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to be like, hey, we're the best program of all time, all those things can be true.

19:57.987 --> 20:05.775
[SPEAKER_01]: But you've already checked the box on the one that's like, if I don't get that, it might always burn at me.

20:05.915 --> 20:06.736
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's got that.

20:07.797 --> 20:08.798
[SPEAKER_01]: But the other part is this.

20:11.121 --> 20:19.270
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for the giants, this is something that is a high risk high reward, right?

20:19.942 --> 20:31.218
[SPEAKER_01]: If you hired, take your pick of former catcher, and you hire a former catcher of big league catcher as manager, and it doesn't work out, you just roll on to the next.

20:31.318 --> 20:32.760
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a much bigger swing.

20:33.121 --> 20:34.823
[SPEAKER_01]: If it works, you get all the plonits.

20:34.843 --> 20:40.932
[SPEAKER_01]: If it doesn't, it's like, see, they thought they could do something differently than everyone else and look how stupid they were or whatever, right?

20:42.655 --> 20:44.397
[SPEAKER_01]: But from Tony's perspective,

20:45.490 --> 20:51.999
[SPEAKER_01]: I do this as if this works, he's now a one of one, right?

20:52.139 --> 20:57.506
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the one who has basically, why open the door?

20:57.547 --> 21:00.110
[SPEAKER_01]: In a way like you said, Pat Murphy's different.

21:00.130 --> 21:07.380
[SPEAKER_01]: Pat Murphy, the gap between Pat Murphy, college, head coach, and Pat Murphy, major league manager,

21:07.360 --> 21:08.982
[SPEAKER_01]: was a chasm, right?

21:09.102 --> 21:19.937
[SPEAKER_01]: He basically had enough resume in probal post college coaching to where it was not an illogical higher by that point.

21:21.459 --> 21:34.296
[SPEAKER_01]: In Tony's case, if this works, then he is the one of one, he's the college coach who drum strength of majors and by the way, just from a standpoint, if they win a world series in San Francisco,

21:35.407 --> 21:39.511
[SPEAKER_01]: you become like, wow, no one else has ever done this.

21:39.631 --> 21:42.854
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you don't see someone win Omaha and a world series.

21:43.234 --> 21:47.819
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's all, you know, that's all I had of them as a possibility.

21:47.839 --> 21:55.106
[SPEAKER_01]: But if it fails, if this is a dumpster fire of all dumpster fires, I don't think either of us expect that this will be the case.

21:55.646 --> 22:02.713
[SPEAKER_01]: But if this never works in any way, shape or form, I feel comfortable promising this.

22:04.533 --> 22:10.182
[SPEAKER_01]: They could be the 20, 25 Rockies in San Francisco, and that will not be the case.

22:10.523 --> 22:25.146
[SPEAKER_01]: But even if they did, the minute that he became available again, he would be the number one, the top coaching candidate for any appealing college baseball job in the country, basically.

22:25.887 --> 22:30.895
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless there's a school where it's like, we remember Tony, like we're such rivals,

22:31.415 --> 22:35.782
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's the Vandy job came open down the road, that just to make the point.

22:35.842 --> 22:51.988
[SPEAKER_01]: That would not be one where they're like, oh, we're going to bring, you know, that there's again, there's rivals, but I'm saying those, it's like, nothing that happens in Major League Baseball is going to affect the fact that Tony Vatello is viewed as one of the best college baseball coaches in the country.

22:52.390 --> 23:00.159
[SPEAKER_01]: and if he ever became available again and he wanted to go back to college baseball, it would not be something where he would have to start two steps back or anything like that.

23:00.540 --> 23:06.066
[SPEAKER_01]: It would just literally be like, I'm back and I can pick a top program.

23:06.186 --> 23:09.110
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to try to rehabilitate my name.

23:09.230 --> 23:10.071
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything like that.

23:10.752 --> 23:13.475
[SPEAKER_01]: That will always be there if he wants to come back to it.

23:14.356 --> 23:17.740
[SPEAKER_01]: This opportunity will only come around once

23:18.057 --> 23:20.011
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe twice, but probably only once.

23:20.373 --> 23:23.697
[SPEAKER_01]: You only have this one chance to take the run to majorly baseball.

23:24.352 --> 23:26.054
[SPEAKER_00]: That's 100% accurate.

23:26.455 --> 23:32.883
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would go as far as to say that whatever the top job is in the college baseball, at whatever point there needs to be some sort of separation.

23:32.983 --> 23:39.412
[SPEAKER_00]: If ever, between Tony Vitello and the San Francisco Giants, he immediately becomes candidate number one for everything.

23:39.552 --> 23:42.556
[SPEAKER_00]: He is the most attractive hire available in college sports.

23:42.836 --> 23:43.718
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he can win.

23:43.778 --> 23:44.879
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he can recruit.

23:45.159 --> 23:47.543
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he's perfectly built for the NIL era.

23:48.003 --> 23:50.106
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are things that are going to yet go ahead.

23:50.643 --> 23:51.684
[SPEAKER_01]: Number two, I would argue.

23:52.264 --> 23:53.966
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say J. Johnson would be number one.

23:54.006 --> 23:55.808
[SPEAKER_01]: If J. Johnson was ever real, right now.

23:55.828 --> 23:58.150
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, J. Johnson, let's J. Johnson goes to the pros.

23:58.210 --> 23:59.851
[SPEAKER_00]: J. Johnson will be L. S. Use Coach forever.

24:00.092 --> 24:01.213
[SPEAKER_00]: That I guess is a big thing.

24:01.273 --> 24:02.814
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying, but I don't want anyone.

24:02.874 --> 24:05.496
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want anyone hearing this to be like, we're sure.

24:05.516 --> 24:11.842
[SPEAKER_01]: J. Johnson is the, like, as great as Tony's been, J. Johnson is the most successful coach in college baseball right now.

24:11.962 --> 24:17.107
[SPEAKER_00]: J. Johnson, there's an argument to be made that J. Johnson is one of the best college baseball coaches ever.

24:17.127 --> 24:18.608
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've written about that at baseball.

24:18.628 --> 24:20.650
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not, we're not saying,

24:20.630 --> 24:23.520
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to be available, but we just we're not ignoring it either.

24:24.062 --> 24:28.378
[SPEAKER_00]: My point is, I'm not ignoring it necessarily, but I guess I would say this.

24:29.017 --> 24:36.904
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also not giving it much credence because I know that unless J. Johnson follows the Tony Vitalo track, which by the way, that's a whole other separate conversation.

24:36.924 --> 24:38.725
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say this does work great.

24:38.745 --> 24:53.278
[SPEAKER_00]: Does this become an option for Dave Van Horn and J. Johnson and Kevin O'Sullivan and some of these guys who have made a lengthy career out of college baseball and have done a lot of winning, are they able to go and be major league managers?

24:53.338 --> 24:59.023
[SPEAKER_00]: Tony Vitalo, I think, will be kind of the gateway into understanding whether or not

24:59.003 --> 25:04.832
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think that Jay Johnson is a candidate anywhere but LSU, so long as he is in the college ranks.

25:05.193 --> 25:09.980
[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, toning by tele becomes number one, if he needs to come back to college.

25:10.401 --> 25:12.023
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, easy, unquestion.

25:13.325 --> 25:18.173
[SPEAKER_00]: What also happens in this, and I think it's important, is kind of what I touch on a second ago.

25:19.295 --> 25:21.518
[SPEAKER_00]: Do we see Tony succeed?

25:21.667 --> 25:39.625
[SPEAKER_00]: in professional baseball and does this start to become a lot more viable is Jay Johnson a candidate for the next big major league baseball managerial opening because some of these teams know this guy doesn't amazing job of identifying talent he's able to do so with guys who are considered quote unquote underrated

25:39.605 --> 25:41.247
[SPEAKER_00]: in the transfer portal process.

25:41.287 --> 25:42.328
[SPEAKER_00]: He brings the best out of them.

25:42.348 --> 25:43.889
[SPEAKER_00]: They go in national championships.

25:44.310 --> 25:46.312
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not try him out at the major league level?

25:46.432 --> 25:51.717
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Tony is now in a position to kind of provide that pathway for other college coaches.

25:51.777 --> 25:56.462
[SPEAKER_00]: So on one hand to your point, 100% this is a safe move.

25:56.482 --> 26:01.747
[SPEAKER_00]: You either go into San Francisco and you are wildly successful and you keep that job for a long time.

26:01.867 --> 26:07.553
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's an in between where you're moderately successful and you hang around

26:07.533 --> 26:18.364
[SPEAKER_00]: and then the third option is for whatever reason you leave San Francisco or if it's another step down the line and then you can revert back to college pretty much at will because there won't be a school that won't want to hire you.

26:18.384 --> 26:28.854
[SPEAKER_00]: So for Tony it's wins all around and I do think that it's worth mentioning that for other college baseball coaches some of these other very high profile guys this is also a potential win as well.

26:29.855 --> 26:37.202
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh and if this succeeds it opens kind of a wide array

26:37.908 --> 26:40.732
[SPEAKER_01]: There are the coaches who've kind of done the duel.

26:40.853 --> 26:48.164
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, again, just to bring out like West Johnson was a big league pitching coach who then became a college pitching coach, who's now a college head coach.

26:48.184 --> 26:51.008
[SPEAKER_01]: There's players, there's coaches who've had kind of that path.

26:51.349 --> 26:58.941
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a wide array of college coaches with different kinds of experience that kind of becomes much more interest to sports.

26:58.961 --> 26:59.882
[SPEAKER_01]: Now,

26:59.862 --> 27:08.260
[SPEAKER_01]: I do want to say like this would be absolutely unprecedented for college and baseball and major league baseball.

27:09.061 --> 27:13.150
[SPEAKER_01]: What it's not, we have seen this in other sports, right?

27:13.250 --> 27:14.513
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is

27:15.843 --> 27:22.830
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, and that's where maybe there is at least a reason for some caution here, is that like, look, I'm not a basketball fan.

27:23.311 --> 27:24.372
[SPEAKER_01]: You, you follow basketball.

27:24.392 --> 27:26.654
[SPEAKER_01]: You covered basketball much more recently than I have.

27:26.955 --> 27:31.159
[SPEAKER_01]: We have seen college basketball coach coaches make the jump to the NBA.

27:31.319 --> 27:34.483
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not regular, but it's happened.

27:35.424 --> 27:37.005
[SPEAKER_01]: We have seen it in the NFL.

27:37.045 --> 27:40.669
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say relatively regularly over the years.

27:41.577 --> 27:43.279
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that it's never worked.

27:44.039 --> 27:47.923
[SPEAKER_01]: But in the NFL, it has very rarely worked.

27:47.943 --> 27:50.285
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say, I would say the hit rate is very small.

27:50.986 --> 27:55.650
[SPEAKER_01]: For every, and again, the tricky part of this is is there's different kinds of it too, right?

27:56.231 --> 28:01.075
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you could say that Pete Carroll was a college coach who went to the NFL.

28:01.135 --> 28:06.520
[SPEAKER_01]: But Pete Carroll was a college coach who was an NFL assistant coach who then was a failed NFL coach.

28:06.580 --> 28:09.323
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he kind of went back and forth

28:09.725 --> 28:11.507
[SPEAKER_01]: but he had an athletic experience.

28:12.368 --> 28:20.636
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a variety of coaches who have jumped straight from college football, the NFL, and think that it's going to go great and then it really doesn't.

28:20.676 --> 28:25.981
[SPEAKER_01]: Steve Spurrier was never the NFL coach that he was in college.

28:26.001 --> 28:28.644
[SPEAKER_01]: Lou Holtz was never the NFL coach.

28:28.664 --> 28:29.325
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't college.

28:29.345 --> 28:34.450
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are two very wide spread of the years, but there's a lot of examples of this.

28:35.510 --> 28:39.996
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is like something in the NFL, where we seem like it is a challenge to make that jump.

28:42.099 --> 28:45.564
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, as you said, this could pave the way.

28:46.005 --> 28:51.452
[SPEAKER_01]: This could be the one that's like, okay, now this becomes a real possibility.

28:52.354 --> 29:02.648
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, the other thing I'm saying about it is is take this a minor, it does feel like in the 2020s,

29:03.742 --> 29:05.164
[SPEAKER_01]: more so than ever before.

29:05.644 --> 29:24.025
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can think of coaching staff at the major league level as like, okay, this is gonna be a analogy right from my, I apologize to everyone, but you know, there's the, like, there was the heat shields on like the Apollo rockets as they came back through the atmosphere.

29:24.445 --> 29:31.673
[SPEAKER_01]: And the design of it was, is that it shed, you burned off and shed as it went down to keep the everyone inside cool.

29:32.429 --> 29:37.796
[SPEAKER_01]: The coaching staffs at major league levels, in a lot of ways, are the heat shield for foreign offices nowadays.

29:38.237 --> 29:55.959
[SPEAKER_01]: In that, if something, if you have a bad season, it's the hitting coach is time to be let go, whether the hitting coach is doing a great job or not, or the pitching coach, or the bullpen coach, or the bench coach, where it's like, see, we recognize that this went poorly, we're making a change in direction.

29:55.979 --> 29:58.723
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, if that doesn't do enough,

29:58.957 --> 30:10.551
[SPEAKER_01]: then it's the manager's job to be fired to, again, demonstrate, see, we recognize that the season did not go as we want, moving on, we will go in a different direction.

30:10.912 --> 30:18.100
[SPEAKER_01]: When in reality, there's less change in direction now bringing in a new manager than there was 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.

30:19.442 --> 30:26.010
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say that this also has a chance to kind of, maybe I want to say change that dynamic,

30:27.323 --> 30:55.913
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of like again, if Tony Vatello succeeds in San Francisco, it could kind of shift the focus on managers at the big league level a little bit because his story is going to be so interesting following up on the heels of Pat Murphy, who's been such an interesting story in development, like again, like they'll be interested to see, but okay, we promise we're going to do this, so I do want to flip it to the other side of this, which is.

30:56.163 --> 30:56.944
[SPEAKER_01]: for Tony Vatello.

30:57.004 --> 31:07.900
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, we're acknowledging, you have reporting, you've kind of independently talked to sources that not that this is finalized, but that this seems to be head in that direction, right?

31:08.320 --> 31:09.602
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

31:09.622 --> 31:16.412
[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, Tennessee right now has to be starting to say, okay, what do we do now?

31:16.913 --> 31:22.801
[SPEAKER_01]: Because this is a lose-lose for Tennessee that is nothing against, as I see it at least.

31:23.162 --> 31:25.545
[SPEAKER_01]: That's nothing against the rest of the staff there.

31:25.897 --> 31:29.421
[SPEAKER_01]: The talent they have there, the administration, anything like that.

31:30.022 --> 31:34.488
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you're never a good time to lose as you just laid out.

31:34.728 --> 31:37.071
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the best coaches in college baseball.

31:38.653 --> 31:44.881
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say though that if it's going to happen, this would be one of the more challenging times to do so.

31:44.921 --> 31:48.265
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, I'll phrase it this way.

31:48.285 --> 31:55.414
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there any logical case to be made for anything other than

31:56.322 --> 32:17.554
[SPEAKER_00]: Not right now, not right now, and you know, for those of you who are listening to this podcast and you're wondering, all right, when is the Tennessee baseball head coaching hot more going to hit the website at baseball America, I don't know that you're going to see one in this instance because the reality is this is a really difficult time to have to bring in a new head coach and part of that.

32:17.534 --> 32:21.765
[SPEAKER_00]: is because there's just not a lot of teams who have available head coaches at this stage.

32:21.785 --> 32:24.231
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of guys have their 2026 squads built out.

32:24.592 --> 32:34.918
[SPEAKER_00]: The guys who might be willing to jump ship on their teams at this point, I don't know that those are the most optimal candidates for a Tennessee and the third and most important aspect of all of this is this.

32:36.097 --> 32:51.457
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're Tennessee, you do need to now work to do a ton of movement on keeping your roster together because all of its players will now have an opportunity a special transfer portal window to enter the portal for 30 days.

32:51.798 --> 32:57.185
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to prevent that in order to have any semblance of a chance in 20, 20 cents.

32:57.225 --> 33:02.492
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, which we could describe as the

33:03.670 --> 33:11.241
[SPEAKER_01]: If this went poorly, the greatest unexpected black Friday sale in college history.

33:11.261 --> 33:11.501
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.

33:12.022 --> 33:13.524
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to make a quick note here.

33:14.385 --> 33:15.206
[SPEAKER_01]: Do some reporting.

33:15.447 --> 33:15.947
[SPEAKER_01]: Jacob is.

33:16.528 --> 33:28.405
[SPEAKER_01]: And we want to note that if Tennessee players enter the portal, the NCAA would likely, would almost assuredly say that they have to sit out a year before they can play.

33:28.626 --> 33:28.986
[SPEAKER_01]: Now.

33:30.518 --> 33:47.120
[SPEAKER_01]: That is something that would obviously potentially be subject to a lawsuit, potentially subject to a lawsuit, and while the lawsuit would take quite a while, there's also the possibility of an injunction that would then allow the players to play while the lawsuit was being adjudicated, as we've seen in multiple cases before.

33:47.480 --> 34:00.137
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is worth noting that as we talk about the possibilities of players as special transfer portal that we do lay out the fact that that does not necessarily mean that those players

34:00.117 --> 34:07.490
[SPEAKER_01]: So as you hear the rest of this, you know, on the podcast, when we were recording this, that was not clear to us.

34:08.031 --> 34:10.575
[SPEAKER_01]: So do understand that we want to lay out that point.

34:10.615 --> 34:12.178
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to give you as much information as we can.

34:12.579 --> 34:18.649
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, this is happening quickly and obviously, not, in case this hasn't even happened yet, but we did want to add that in that industry.

34:19.085 --> 34:28.673
[SPEAKER_00]: for sure that there will be teams, if guys, there will be, there will be teams before guys enter portals who reach out to players and go, hey, we have an opportunity for you.

34:28.713 --> 34:30.795
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a crap situation that you're in now.

34:31.115 --> 34:33.758
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you come to a program with more stability and try and win games?

34:33.838 --> 34:34.478
[SPEAKER_00]: That will happen.

34:34.658 --> 34:35.659
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no doubt in my mind.

34:36.680 --> 34:41.284
[SPEAKER_00]: For Tennessee to award some of that off, it will need to promote from within in my opinion.

34:41.324 --> 34:44.087
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that starts with Josh Elander.

34:44.287 --> 34:48.130
[SPEAKER_01]: He has been, I mean, I would say this.

34:49.409 --> 34:52.092
[SPEAKER_01]: Any other, again, nothing gets you up.

34:52.393 --> 34:54.095
[SPEAKER_01]: Any other hire would be surprising.

34:54.135 --> 34:55.597
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like at this point.

34:55.617 --> 34:56.137
[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.

34:56.558 --> 35:01.224
[SPEAKER_00]: And Elander to me is it would be surprising within the internal promotion candidates.

35:01.244 --> 35:04.187
[SPEAKER_00]: If it wasn't him, he is the Tennessee recruiting coordinator.

35:04.488 --> 35:12.598
[SPEAKER_00]: He is the backbone of this operation when it comes to the transfer portal, when it comes to their unbelievable, 2026 high school recruiting classes.

35:12.578 --> 35:28.765
[SPEAKER_00]: truly unbelievable, they have so much talent stacked up that we are talking about at the very top of our draft boards that you'll see as we update throughout the fall and into the spring it's going to have a ton of Tennessee orange all over the top.

35:28.745 --> 35:32.150
[SPEAKER_00]: Josh Elander has been a major factor in being able to put that together.

35:32.231 --> 35:35.536
[SPEAKER_00]: And so at this stage, it's mid-October.

35:35.896 --> 35:38.040
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to scramble to keep your roster together.

35:38.060 --> 35:40.384
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to scramble to keep you recruiting class together.

35:40.804 --> 35:46.453
[SPEAKER_00]: My first phone call would be to the person who next to Tony did the most to put it together.

35:46.694 --> 35:47.796
[SPEAKER_00]: That's Josh Elander.

35:48.457 --> 35:51.021
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he makes the most sense him in there since the beginning with Tony.

35:51.421 --> 35:52.423
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the guy to me.

35:53.095 --> 36:20.115
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just player retention all that, which again, we're talking about, like from a window standpoint, again, if you, the retention of this team, if this went sideways, if the team, if there were a lot of players and who are not happy with the decision of your hiring all this, the windows kind of nightmarish for Tennessee and great for players who really do want to change because from the standpoint of,

36:21.158 --> 36:24.407
[SPEAKER_01]: We are from an academic purpose.

36:24.828 --> 36:27.876
[SPEAKER_01]: We are nearing the end of a semester.

36:29.219 --> 36:30.402
[SPEAKER_01]: And you would have time.

36:30.483 --> 36:37.902
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, how much, you know, money, how much NIO money, how much scholarship money all that is available.

36:38.422 --> 36:43.212
[SPEAKER_01]: there would be teams that would absolutely be looking at figuring out ways to move things around at all.

36:43.412 --> 36:53.854
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're saying, oh, we're going to be looking on to see what short stops in the portal or what pictures in the portal for January or whatever, you never would imagine the quiet.

36:53.874 --> 36:58.945
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm saying like from that standpoint, like it's it's not the same as if you had

36:58.992 --> 37:21.810
[SPEAKER_01]: If we were, again, like, if we were in August and this happened, yes, that's a good window or whatever, but like it's, this is one where you kind of the seasons not that far away, fall balls going on right now, but on top of that, it is an opportunity, like everyone doing this, these are competitors, these are coaches.

37:22.955 --> 37:26.140
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, we do have the example like this can go sideways.

37:26.220 --> 37:38.298
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw this go sideways literally a year ago, because we had Texas A&M that was coming off of a national title series appearance.

37:39.460 --> 37:44.608
[SPEAKER_01]: And they did the very logical thing to do, which is, hey,

37:45.112 --> 37:48.176
[SPEAKER_01]: If we're going to hold on, we've got one of the most talented teams.

37:48.256 --> 37:54.564
[SPEAKER_01]: Our preseason number one, you know, this was the considered the most talented team in college baseball heading into the next year.

37:55.365 --> 37:58.229
[SPEAKER_01]: And it fell apart.

37:58.890 --> 38:00.752
[SPEAKER_01]: So it can go sideways.

38:01.834 --> 38:12.047
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would say, if you're 10 to see, you take that risk, but on top of it, okay, you could always write this off as

38:13.192 --> 38:15.256
[SPEAKER_01]: This was never going to be easy.

38:15.336 --> 38:24.572
[SPEAKER_01]: We lost our best coaching program history in late October, before the season, during football.

38:24.592 --> 38:26.635
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, okay, it didn't work out.

38:26.695 --> 38:31.824
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we now can have a nationwide search or whatever.

38:32.425 --> 38:34.609
[SPEAKER_01]: If it works, you can say,

38:35.821 --> 38:36.121
[SPEAKER_01]: great.

38:36.262 --> 38:37.563
[SPEAKER_01]: The program rolls on.

38:38.304 --> 38:43.430
[SPEAKER_01]: We've shown that as great as our coach was, this was a program, not a coach.

38:44.252 --> 38:47.616
[SPEAKER_01]: And at that point, you look at the resources that Tennessee has.

38:47.996 --> 38:54.064
[SPEAKER_01]: You look at the talent that they can, you know, that they have, again, like lined up right now coming in.

38:55.125 --> 39:04.697
[SPEAKER_01]: You could say like this could be, there are very few programs I would say that are more positioned that this could be a

39:05.707 --> 39:09.133
[SPEAKER_01]: like a derailment that takes years to recover from.

39:11.638 --> 39:20.293
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's true, you know, it's hard, it's hard to break down what the future of Tennessee looks like right now.

39:20.473 --> 39:22.517
[SPEAKER_00]: It really is, and you know,

39:22.733 --> 39:31.808
[SPEAKER_00]: In our world and JJ you know this as well as I do like we it's always our job to try and have the answers when stuff like this is happening and trying to forecast what could possibly be.

39:32.208 --> 39:44.809
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would be doing a disservice in my opinion to sit right here at this exact moment and say the future of Tennessee is bright or the future of Tennessee is really murky and it's not going to look good because you're losing Tony by tell.

39:44.789 --> 39:50.979
[SPEAKER_00]: In the transfer portal era, it is so hard to predict what is going to come from this.

39:51.400 --> 39:54.845
[SPEAKER_00]: Could we see some of Tennessee's top players leave in the immediate aftermath?

39:55.086 --> 40:02.798
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course we can, because there are other programs out there that have the money to be able to pay them, that have the starting jobs to be able to say, hey,

40:02.778 --> 40:11.489
[SPEAKER_00]: do you want to come be our starting third baseman or shortstop or have a spot in our rotation what we can offer you on right now and we have the money to be able to back it up.

40:11.509 --> 40:25.487
[SPEAKER_00]: That can happen and if you're in the middle of a coaching change even if you're promoting a familiar face for some of these players who's to say that the opportunity is not better on the other side at least in the eyes of the beholder which is the players and their family.

40:25.507 --> 40:27.570
[SPEAKER_00]: That could be a

40:27.550 --> 40:29.696
[SPEAKER_00]: at the same time on the other side of the coin.

40:30.077 --> 40:34.749
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we would be remiss to not acknowledge the possibility that the exact opposite is true.

40:35.110 --> 40:43.652
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's to say that a Tennessee player doesn't hear from another program and then hear from Josh Elander, for example, who says, why leave?

40:43.632 --> 40:44.714
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a great team.

40:44.834 --> 40:46.596
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same team that Tony put together.

40:46.636 --> 40:48.840
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't necessarily commit to Tennessee for Tony.

40:48.880 --> 40:54.608
[SPEAKER_00]: You committed to play at Tennessee to play for this team and this coaching staff as a whole with these teammates.

40:54.929 --> 40:56.832
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go win a national championship without him.

40:57.052 --> 40:58.574
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's show people that we can do it.

40:58.935 --> 41:07.427
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, there's a lot that exists between those two lines to to me those are the extremes and there are a hundred possibilities in between.

41:07.548 --> 41:08.509
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

41:08.489 --> 41:29.923
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, with the amount of talent that they have stacked up and the recruiting classes that they have built, I don't think that they get decimated by this 100% loss as a result of this kind of a change is just not going to happen.

41:30.646 --> 41:38.655
[SPEAKER_00]: I also don't think that it's, you know, reverting back to the tendency of old, where winning was few and far between and they didn't really have any national relevance.

41:38.995 --> 41:42.359
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that they slip below the line the Tony has established for them.

41:42.699 --> 41:46.784
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know that they're immediate title contenders, but and I just want to reiterate this.

41:47.284 --> 41:54.392
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see a myriad, you know, amount of opportunities and possibilities for what this team could end up being.

41:55.790 --> 41:59.675
[SPEAKER_01]: as you just said, the amount of unknowns we're talking about here.

41:59.816 --> 42:05.864
[SPEAKER_01]: We are, again, we're trying to lay out all of this, but at the same time, let's just acknowledge to kind of lay out what you said.

42:05.884 --> 42:11.792
[SPEAKER_01]: We are acknowledging that we know that while it's headed in this direction, it is not a finalized deal.

42:12.213 --> 42:20.444
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is, you have to put that there's percentages here on 20 Vatelobek Homs San Francisco Giants, you know, manager.

42:20.905 --> 42:21.966
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's,

42:22.334 --> 42:50.400
[SPEAKER_00]: door number one here and then let's just wait, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me

42:50.380 --> 42:52.383
[SPEAKER_00]: that that is what's going to happen.

42:52.443 --> 42:55.889
[SPEAKER_00]: So to your point, JJ, yes, it could completely fall through.

42:56.209 --> 42:57.792
[SPEAKER_00]: He could be in Tennessee's dugout in 2026.

42:58.172 --> 43:02.039
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be at this stage very surprised by that outcome.

43:02.059 --> 43:02.499
[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead though.

43:02.519 --> 43:02.980
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry about that.

43:03.381 --> 43:04.262
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's number one.

43:04.523 --> 43:08.208
[SPEAKER_01]: We think that's going to happen, but that is not a 100% in zero right there.

43:08.228 --> 43:08.429
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

43:09.611 --> 43:12.996
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we have, we don't know, we expect that

43:13.668 --> 43:21.996
[SPEAKER_01]: Joshuaander would be the next head coach for Tennessee, whether on an interim basis for the year or just named as the new head coach.

43:22.497 --> 43:26.100
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's branching out percentages number two, right?

43:27.021 --> 43:34.329
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we have from that, as you said, whatever higher they make, as you said, this is a coaching change.

43:34.369 --> 43:40.755
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a special portal opens and that could mean

43:41.090 --> 43:49.962
[SPEAKER_01]: that players who realize that they're going to be buried in fall ball are going to hop in the portal because it's like, oh, I thought I was going to play every day.

43:50.002 --> 43:58.413
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I've realized that there are two or three players at my position who may be more experienced and better than me right now or whatever, right?

43:58.433 --> 44:06.844
[SPEAKER_01]: So it could be that there's this minor ciphoning off that's coming from kind of the edges of the roster or as you said, it could be that

44:07.988 --> 44:10.811
[SPEAKER_01]: the roster has much more change than we expect, right?

44:10.871 --> 44:32.214
[SPEAKER_01]: Which, and let's just acknowledge, if that did happen, the flip side of this, the challenges of filling holes, when we say the timing of this right now, when we say that the timing is really poor for Tennessee, I would say the key thing of that is not, because they have a logical succession plan here.

44:32.594 --> 44:36.358
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not something where, you know, they don't have those plans,

44:36.878 --> 44:48.289
[SPEAKER_01]: If it did lead to even somewhat minor, you know, like but two or three projected starters on this team decided to leave.

44:49.349 --> 44:58.701
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, that is a problem that is, I would say for a program like Tennessee, relatively easy to solve in July and August.

44:59.021 --> 44:59.502
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that fair?

44:59.882 --> 45:02.686
[SPEAKER_01]: Not there, but they're Tennessee.

45:03.226 --> 45:11.797
[SPEAKER_01]: They can go out and say like you saw this player in the cape or this mid-major, whatever, we can offer them a better package all these things.

45:13.399 --> 45:18.225
[SPEAKER_01]: If you said, we lost this player in mid to late November.

45:19.218 --> 45:23.145
[SPEAKER_01]: and we're having to fill a fill in the blank position or a couple.

45:23.986 --> 45:30.157
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying there's nothing out there to get in by January, especially on the Juco route, things like that.

45:31.699 --> 45:31.800
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

45:31.820 --> 45:36.027
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're probably gonna be taking a pretty big hit, are you not?

45:36.287 --> 45:44.922
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it would be much more like that, the challenge of if you had even semi-significant departures.

45:45.357 --> 45:49.589
[SPEAKER_01]: Filling those for the 2026 season would be very challenging, would it not?

45:50.953 --> 45:51.214
[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.

45:51.595 --> 45:56.088
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this, there is disaster potential here.

45:56.108 --> 45:57.994
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not trying to dodge that.

45:58.014 --> 45:59.839
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think again that.

46:00.022 --> 46:07.052
[SPEAKER_00]: We end up seeing something that's more in the middle of the road to the positive end of the spectrum here, especially because we do expect time to see to promote from within.

46:07.072 --> 46:18.047
[SPEAKER_00]: There is some sort of sell and maybe even some buy in you can rally the troops behind this situation, you know, hey, let's go and prove ourselves even after this unique, you know, damaging potentially.

46:19.023 --> 46:20.808
[SPEAKER_00]: thing phenomenon has unfolded.

46:20.848 --> 46:23.515
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, there is disaster potential.

46:23.655 --> 46:35.445
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you see a mass Exodus from your roster as a byproduct of this coaching change, which you weren't anticipating and is happening for months later than is supposed to be normal.

46:36.404 --> 46:54.554
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be hard, I mean, they will have to do some combination of relying upon the very young and unseasoned and unready talent that they have in the house to go and fill in an important roles or going to the Jukeau route and seeing where they can pluck out a Jukeau at the very last second in between semesters.

46:54.575 --> 46:55.476
[SPEAKER_00]: Now,

46:55.456 --> 46:56.558
[SPEAKER_00]: very important here.

46:56.598 --> 46:58.621
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not like professional free agency.

46:59.202 --> 47:02.106
[SPEAKER_00]: Just because you're still on the market does not make you eligible to sign.

47:02.347 --> 47:10.399
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't have the grades, if you have met the requirements to be able to enroll at Tennessee halfway through the year, that is another barrier.

47:10.500 --> 47:22.358
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not as simple as Coach A calls player A and says, hey, player A, you know, you've done really well at JuCo, we need a lot of help and have an opportunity for you to pitch a lot of innings at Tennessee right now.

47:22.338 --> 47:26.184
[SPEAKER_00]: Does player A's grades match with what's required to get into Tennessee?

47:26.465 --> 47:29.189
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he have enough credit hours to be able to enroll mid-year?

47:29.510 --> 47:31.373
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the same as enrolling over the summer.

47:31.894 --> 47:33.577
[SPEAKER_00]: Credit don't transfer as easily.

47:34.058 --> 47:43.333
[SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot of questions that will have to be answered and a lot of legwork that will have to be done in order to be able to fill out this roster if that's what it comes down to.

47:43.313 --> 47:47.586
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, if I had to predict, I don't think Tennessee will be in that position.

47:47.847 --> 47:52.200
[SPEAKER_00]: But is that within the realm of possibility, if Tony Vitalo leaves 100%.

47:52.481 --> 47:54.808
[SPEAKER_00]: It should be on every Tennessee fans radar.

47:55.885 --> 47:56.506
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's from St.

47:56.526 --> 48:00.332
[SPEAKER_01]: So we are talking about branching trees where we have percentages on each of these.

48:00.393 --> 48:20.847
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, this is unknowable right now because we could be talking about one scenario where it's like it goes one way or another where it goes very different and those things are unknowable but okay before we wrap this up Jacob what else have we not covered what else is there that you look at say the other aspect that we need to be looking at here is this.

48:21.552 --> 48:26.000
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think the biggest thing for me is the implications around the SEC.

48:26.020 --> 48:31.069
[SPEAKER_00]: I look at a conference that has a really great amount of talent at the top.

48:31.209 --> 48:35.676
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are a couple different teams that I think could very reasonably win the year.

48:36.077 --> 48:37.119
[SPEAKER_00]: Tennessee was one of them.

48:37.580 --> 48:39.884
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought Tennessee this season had Omaha potential.

48:40.204 --> 48:42.328
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it had SEC champion potential.

48:42.308 --> 48:47.754
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not to say that that still won't be the case if Tony by Tello ends up in San Francisco.

48:48.115 --> 48:54.502
[SPEAKER_00]: But as we've discussed for the last 50 minutes, it does change the outlook on the season or at least clouds it.

48:54.882 --> 48:59.307
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know what Tennessee is going to look like as a buy product of all of this.

48:59.327 --> 49:07.877
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that this opens the door for LSU to have another very prominent season and maybe have a little bit less resistance as it tries to defend its title.

49:07.857 --> 49:09.459
[SPEAKER_00]: and went a third within four years.

49:09.860 --> 49:19.634
[SPEAKER_00]: I've looked at a team like Florida, Georgia, and Auburn, guys that were maybe towards the middle of the pack that have one less team potentially that they're going to need to be able to compete with.

49:19.674 --> 49:34.574
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I'm another SEC school, I'm watching very closely to see who Tennessee puts in charge, how that impacts who they retain and who they have to recruit potentially over the course of the next couple months, and how that might shake up the project and standings in a loaded conference.

49:34.614 --> 49:34.995
[SPEAKER_00]: Because

49:34.975 --> 49:41.724
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a juggernaut within that lead that just took a monumental hit regardless of how well they recover from it.

49:43.186 --> 49:51.217
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, along those lines, let me ask you one other question with that, which is we are obviously you are gathering information on fall ball all the time.

49:51.277 --> 49:54.802
[SPEAKER_01]: But we do have a sense of what these rosters are.

49:55.243 --> 49:59.508
[SPEAKER_01]: We're looking, you know, we're already starting our thought process of previewing the season.

49:59.869 --> 50:02.232
[SPEAKER_01]: We had our way too early, college taught 25,

50:03.545 --> 50:07.213
[SPEAKER_01]: Before all this happened, what would you describe?

50:07.293 --> 50:21.846
[SPEAKER_01]: For again, for the fans here who are listening or still here have been at 50, but are more kind of the general baseball fan who may not be as plugged in on as far as the 2026 college baseball forecast.

50:22.548 --> 50:23.089
[SPEAKER_01]: What?

50:23.255 --> 50:33.591
[SPEAKER_01]: What were we kind of, how did you kind of foresee where Tennessee fit as far as a national championship contender and an SEC championship contender for 2026?

50:33.811 --> 50:38.579
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we believe that Tennessee was going to be right up there in the mix.

50:38.599 --> 50:43.707
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a roster that was put together largely via the transfer portal and that's a two-year process.

50:43.727 --> 50:49.836
[SPEAKER_00]: So they had guys who are returning to the team, who are going to be very impactful,

50:49.816 --> 51:15.975
[SPEAKER_00]: And recruited via the transfer portal and then they did a great job bringing in new guys Henry Ford who we've talked a lot about from Virginia who wasn't even expected to get to campus is on campus now imagine let me just distract myself here for a second imagine if you're Henry Ford and you transferred to Tennessee and the entire conversation in the lead up to the draft was there's no way this guy is going to get to campus because he's ready to go pro he's got an early top three rounds profile he's gone.

51:15.955 --> 51:17.177
[SPEAKER_00]: And you go, you know what?

51:17.258 --> 51:17.799
[SPEAKER_00]: Forget it.

51:17.859 --> 51:18.841
[SPEAKER_00]: The NIL is right.

51:18.901 --> 51:20.083
[SPEAKER_00]: The coaching staff is right.

51:20.544 --> 51:21.526
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to Tennessee.

51:21.546 --> 51:22.528
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to end up in Knoxville.

51:22.548 --> 51:23.911
[SPEAKER_00]: You shot the baseball world.

51:24.312 --> 51:31.666
[SPEAKER_00]: And now four months later, you're sitting in your Knoxville apartment and you're wondering, I just committed to a head coach who's going to play pro ball.

51:32.027 --> 51:36.736
[SPEAKER_00]: When I had the opportunity to do the same and now I'm here in college and I've got to play another season.

51:36.817 --> 51:37.558
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

51:37.538 --> 51:38.479
[SPEAKER_00]: That's super interesting.

51:38.499 --> 51:40.943
[SPEAKER_00]: The dynamic of all of that is something that we're going to have to follow.

51:41.043 --> 51:44.568
[SPEAKER_00]: But what got me to this point is that they do have a lot of talent.

51:44.668 --> 51:46.351
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't great job in the transfer portal.

51:46.671 --> 51:51.839
[SPEAKER_00]: We anticipated that they would be roughly a top 10 to 15 team if not higher in the preseason poll.

51:52.160 --> 51:56.486
[SPEAKER_00]: I still kind of expect that even if they do lose some talent after all of this is said and done.

51:56.846 --> 51:58.749
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that Tennessee is going to be a really good team.

51:58.809 --> 51:59.310
[SPEAKER_00]: So.

51:59.290 --> 52:14.813
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're trying to get into the swing of college baseball, this is a very, very talented roster that couldn't theory get picked apart after Tony by TELLO's departure, but in the event that it doesn't, they are national title contenders, they are a team that can get to Omaha, and that's with or without Tony by TELLO in the knockout.

52:16.395 --> 52:24.407
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be fascinating to see how this all, like we said, we just laid out that this is a decision that has to be made still.

52:25.408 --> 52:26.530
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing, nothing final yet.

52:26.982 --> 52:34.113
[SPEAKER_01]: But if it does happen as we expect, there are then numerous downstream effects as well.

52:34.133 --> 52:44.608
[SPEAKER_01]: We hope we've laid out today kind of a, to give you a kind of a roadmap for what to look for over the next month, I guess we would say.

52:45.490 --> 52:55.605
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we wrap up though, okay, so as you said, just to summarize, as you understand it right now,

52:56.041 --> 53:09.392
[SPEAKER_01]: If we are not talking about it has been made official, like at this point, not that it is 100% a certainty or anything like that, but it seems likely that Tony Vattello is going to be the manager of the San Francisco Giants.

53:10.334 --> 53:12.599
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that it's increasingly likely.

53:13.080 --> 53:17.330
[SPEAKER_00]: I do believe that this point that Tony by Tele will be the next manager of the San Francisco Giants.

53:17.711 --> 53:27.634
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to stress and this is in our reporting and writing over at baseballamerica.com, which by the way, there will be a lot more content relating to the situation going up over there over the course of the next.

53:27.614 --> 53:33.883
[SPEAKER_00]: 24 to 48 hours, so be sure to check it over there every once in a while, but we did say that it is not done.

53:34.123 --> 53:36.146
[SPEAKER_00]: There are negotiations still ongoing.

53:36.706 --> 53:47.361
[SPEAKER_00]: The two sides have not come to a finalized agreement yet, but if you're going to read the T leaves here and follow the trends, I would say that Tony by Tello is most likely to be the next San Francisco Giants Manager.

53:47.948 --> 54:17.382
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's also just say with this, like to lay out, like also you have over there, like that, you know, this is not this is something where there is no way that the giants are this far down and not have an understanding of that what 20 of a telemakes it Tennessee, what the buy out provisions are all these things are all very much understood it's not something where they're getting to this point.

54:18.222 --> 54:44.736
[SPEAKER_01]: In a way that you really don't as much with anyone with a normal candidate, because I mean, again, Tonya Vitello's salary is basically a public record, something that's not true of major managers, and again, so this is not something where there are hurdles often that would normally be still in play that are maybe a little less in play here, because again, you go into this

54:44.716 --> 54:46.100
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be fascinating to see.

54:46.120 --> 54:47.946
[SPEAKER_01]: As you can tell, we're fascinated.

54:48.267 --> 54:51.837
[SPEAKER_01]: We just did a 55 minute almost emergency podcast about this.

54:52.540 --> 54:53.823
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's going to be fun.

54:54.024 --> 54:58.337
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be, if you care about baseball like we do at all levels.

54:59.954 --> 55:02.256
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how this isn't exciting.

55:02.877 --> 55:04.118
[SPEAKER_01]: I can see for Tennessee fan.

55:04.318 --> 55:05.739
[SPEAKER_01]: I get it completely Tennessee fan.

55:05.759 --> 55:08.982
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're a fall and you're like, I don't think this is exciting at all.

55:09.122 --> 55:09.703
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate this.

55:10.203 --> 55:12.645
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's understandable.

55:12.665 --> 55:16.389
[SPEAKER_01]: But four fans of college baseball who are also just fans of baseball.

55:16.449 --> 55:20.633
[SPEAKER_01]: For fans of baseball, who are also a little bit fans of college baseball, whatever it is.

55:21.854 --> 55:28.780
[SPEAKER_01]: This is exciting because a door looks like it is being open that has never been open for four.

55:29.654 --> 55:35.841
[SPEAKER_01]: And as you laid out, if it does open, that could change a lot of things going forward.

55:38.023 --> 55:38.304
[SPEAKER_00]: No doubt.

55:38.704 --> 55:42.168
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is, this is to me a landmark case.

55:42.648 --> 55:45.251
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about this within this hour episode.

55:45.271 --> 55:51.478
[SPEAKER_00]: What does this do for the future of coaching hires at the MLB level?

55:52.379 --> 55:56.944
[SPEAKER_00]: Do we see more teams look to colleges and go,

55:57.042 --> 55:58.704
[SPEAKER_00]: Jay Johnson, you've done it.

55:58.984 --> 56:00.866
[SPEAKER_00]: You've won multiple national championships.

56:00.906 --> 56:08.974
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what you can do at the college level and you know that if you need to go back, you'd be the first phone call for almost any team in the country if not every team in the country.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Come give us a shot.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if we can win some games and you can help it develop some of these young guys calling up quicker than ever and win at the major league level.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tony ViTello is the test case.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you are a baseball fan,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Are we about to see a new trend emerge as teams try and develop an edge over their competition?

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's harder than ever to win in baseball, just with how good each team is and how good these players are that are getting pumped out constantly.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You need to find a new edge.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is Tony Vitello and hires along these lines?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is this the new professional edge?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it could be, but that's going to be the fun part.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We got to wait and see.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have a lot more over at baseball america calm we hope you enjoy this if you did please like and subscribe You know if you have questions you have comments about this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'd love to hear them if you do on YouTube Again, I try to stay on YouTube pretty regularly and respond to those as I can For Jacob.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm JJ so long everybody