Charlie Robinson (00:01.892)
Welcome to Macro Aggressions. I'm your host Charlie Robinson. If you are watching us on Rumble, Band.Video, Vigilante TV, or you are listening wherever podcasts are served, thank you so much. I appreciate your amazing support over the years as we get close to 10 million. I don't know, maybe we'll be at 10 million downloads by the time this comes out. Thank you to everybody. Please rate the show. That's their Achilles heel. We figured it out. Five star reviews for everybody that you like. That's how you do it.

Also, our sponsors. I've got to have sponsors, so the least I can do is have fantastic ones like Chemical Free Body and Tim James and the crew over there. I've met them all. They're great people. Tim saved his life by changing his diet. If you're sick, if you're feeling sluggish, there's room for improvement. Tim can help you. It doesn't, it's not revolution. It's just, you got to have the right stuff and his supplements are fantastic. I've been taking them, I don't know.

every morning for five years. So I know what they can do. I've done the detox bundle twice. It's a 90 day program. Check it out. Also, if you're interested, Water Hero, his new water solution, it's a water structuring program. You've got to check it out. You can get a pitcher, handheld pitcher for yourself, kind of like a Brita water pitcher, something like that. So if you're interested in having clean water, Tim's the guy to talk to. Best place to go, chemicalfreebody.com forward slash macro. And you can just.

take care of it all right there. big thanks to Tony Ardeburn at Wise Wolf Gold. I'll tell you what, they have a Wolf Pack program. It's an auto-buy. You set it up, there's different dollar tiers, and you set it and forget it. In fact, I just got a text message about 30 minutes before we went on saying that mine was on its way. Every month I get a little black box delivered with silver. Best bang for the buck. Tony and his team put that together and I just...

Stack silver every month, dollar cost average. So if you're interested, go to wolf, go to macroaggressions.gold. That's it, and you'll find it there. Macroaggressions.gold. Check it out. If you're interested, you know, if you're interested, if you want some gold and silver in your life, then Tony's the guy to talk to about all of that because, I don't know, might want to reevaluate your relationship with the bank. That's all I'm saying is that...

Charlie Robinson (02:19.726)
One day it's open and the next day it might not be. So it's always good to have a little bit of gold and silver. So thank you to our sponsors who make this show happen. And it's my pleasure to welcome to the show Paul List. Paul, great to meet you. I have got to say, you and I are going to have a lot to talk about because what you've been working on with regard to...

Let's just call it AI slash transhumanism is a topic that we've been discussing quite a bit. it's great to meet you. Thanks for coming on the show. How are you?

Paul List (02:55.36)
I'm great. I'm really glad to be here, Charlie. I've heard you in the past and you and I have very similar priorities.

Charlie Robinson (03:02.694)
Well, we're noticing that there's some dangerous people in positions of power, you know? And they're getting a free pass, I think, a lot of the, at least the tech bros in this new Trump administration, though it's not limited to his administration, but the tech guys are getting this pass, this kind of, well, you know, we'll let Doge come in and clean up some of the inefficiencies of government.

Paul List (03:08.845)
Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (03:30.118)
You recognize there's inefficiencies in government, right? And you go, well, yeah, of course I see that. And so, you you think like maybe they could come in here and clean it up. But on day two, the operation Warp Speed, Sam Altman, Larry Ellison presentation was chilling to me. I saw something there and I thought, boy. I mean, I knew that we were just picking our poison when it comes to, you know, these elections, but.

Once I saw that those two guys were in lockstep and the amount of money that Trump was talking about throwing around for these guys to play with was staggering. What was your response when you saw that? When you saw those guys, knowing what you know about who these people are, when you saw them standing next to Trump talking about how they were here to save the world?

Paul List (04:17.217)
Well, maybe they're trying to save it for somebody, but it's not for you and I, that's for sure. And I don't know what they, their idea of saving the world is, it's genocide, as I've said. You mentioned Doge and, no, I just wanna.

put my cards right on the table. I've got my own opinion about Elon Musk and it's not all bad and it's not all good. And when he went in to doge, my first reaction was like, okay, this is the best education this guy's going to give himself. He's going to put all of this stuff aside and look like the big hero. He's going to come in and save the federal government, all kinds of money. And he is the machine master. That's what he does, is machines. so to give himself a free education and an in-depth look at the inner workings of the largest machine,

in human history, which is the federal government, was a brilliant move on his part. And it wasn't all for, you know, save America and, you know, my altruistic heart and, you know, God bless America. No, no.

He had his motives. maybe there were a lot of people that didn't see it, but I saw it for what I think it was. And it was a free education and everything you needed to know the inner workings of the federal government. And now he's got people that are loyal to him in the machine. And it was brilliantly played. Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (05:37.042)
Isn't he weird one though? Because he's the one guy out of this group who's not talking about depopulation. He's not talking about thinning the herd. mean, now his kids are all kind of weird. You know, they're like unusual births. So I'm not trying to say that he's in any way like a Mormon family or something like that, right? He's definitely some techno nerd weirdo, but he's not talking about depopulation. I don't trust him either, don't get me wrong. But I watched that and I go, well, that's interesting. I would think that he

Paul List (05:54.837)
No, he's... Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (06:08.101)
would be, you know, to fit it that mold. But he's a, he's a.

Paul List (06:11.692)
Well, the thing that, you know, the thing you have to worry or bothers me is, you know, sure, he'll come out say, hey, we have to have more children. Yeah, that's true, but we don't need more illegitimate children. We need more actual children from legitimate married families because what he doesn't seem to realize and few people seem to understand is the primary building block of civilization is not the individual, it's the family.

Charlie Robinson (06:35.717)
Yeah. And you know, what's interesting about that is what we've noticed recently. And on this show we're equal opportunity. We despise the right and the left equally. know, for different reasons, of course, but one of the things that we saw the left do, house representatives in 2021 changed the legislation for the house rules so that you couldn't use gender specific terms like mother, father, brother, sister, uncle, cousin, what, anything like that.

Paul List (06:45.55)
Of course.

Charlie Robinson (07:05.541)
writing or speaking in the House of Representatives in the United States of America, in Congress. So like the idea that in order to remove the family, the first step is removing the words that you use to describe a family. I thought was really diabolical and felt very Orwellian to me when they rolled this out. Their explanation was of course, gender neutral. We got to keep every transgender in Congress happy. Like what, really? That's what we're doing? That doesn't make any sense. This feels more...

Diabolical is the war on language as well

Paul List (07:37.917)
there's been a war on language now for, I mean, I collect old dictionaries along with a lot of other old books and I can trace the, and it's been bothering me since I was old enough to, at least in my teens, to old enough to actually start paying attention to how words change.

and how, you know, lexicographers, I believe, are kept in business by the ever-changing. And then they say, Latin is dead because nobody speaks and it doesn't change anymore. you know, that's why I prefer etymological dictionaries, because you can actually, it's always rooted in the meaning, the original meaning of the word.

the language that it's from so you can keep the meaning very clear. And speaking the meaning of words has always been weaponized. And I think one of the things that now that we're onto that, one of the things that us on the right side of morality and ethics trying to stop and put the brakes on this well-orchestrated genocide that these global elites, I think we should change that to global scumbags if you ask me.

because they're only elite in their evil and their money and their power. But we have to take back control of the words and some of the words, for instance, intelligence. We have to take back the meaning of intelligence. We have to take back the meaning of consciousness. have to, these things have to be brought back into their natural, etymological, rooted traditional meaning of the actual word and not let them migrate off into whatever the globalists want to twist them to use.

to make sure too that we push and I don't know why I don't know that anybody's doing it but it smells like a rat to me because nobody's doing it. We need to either we need to pass legislation and maybe even add an amendment to the Constitution that guarantees the rights of the Constitution as a citizen only to human beings and never to machines.

Charlie Robinson (09:28.721)
You bring up some interesting points here. First of all, entomology of words and language. As we move into this fourth industrial revolution, I have been going on and on and on about the definition of the word transhumanism. The 1957 definition from Sir Julian Huxley, which was the rebranding of eugenics into transhumanism. And I think that it's important for people to recognize that

Paul List (09:31.15)
Thank you.

Paul List (09:40.748)
Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (09:51.942)
When you hear the Harare's and the Schwab's of the world talking about the fourth industrial revolution, transhumanism, the blending of man with machine, that this isn't just a robot arm for a guy who lost it in a car accident, but this is in fact the depersoning of people, turning them into something other, something that is transhuman, that is no longer human. And maybe the laws and rights that you've grown accustomed to no longer apply to you because you're no longer human. You're just one.

deviation less human and that's enough to change it. And so on the one hand, you're saying, let's make sure that the, that the robots don't become humans. And I'm also saying, let's make sure the humans don't become robots.

Paul List (10:32.396)
Yeah. Well, the humans will essentially always be no matter how terribly they mutilate themselves, just like the transgender, you can claim that, I'm a woman because I mutilated myself. Well, you're just a mutilated, disordered, disordered psychology and you've got issues and you've been convinced to hate yourself. And it's part of the whole plan to sterilize the whole generation, including, you know, all these wars that are going on. I who's the majority of the

of the people who die in these wars by far there would be fathers. know, you're going to lose a whole generation, not the generation of the millions of young men that die on the battlefield, but then perhaps, you

millions, three, four, five million children that they would have normally had. it's all about murdering people. It's about making the whole thing is ultimately these Marxist globalists, evildoers, pushing transhumanism as part of their well-orchestrated attack on humanity. They're pushing all these things. They want us sick. They want us fat. They want us stupid. They want us lazy. They want us

sterile and on the way to wanting this dead so they can wring as much money and maybe even our organs out of us as much as they can before we're dead and it's just they're going to offer you know the genocide as far as the the the great virtual reality revolution that we're headed in and people need to understand this idea is by far not not new it's very ancient in fact the alternate reality is very ancient we could get into that that philosophical context but it was called

of continuity. But it's a very old concept and it's to offer a direct competitor to God's natural creation. It's in direct competition with God and the devil and his minions, these evildoers we call the global elite, they're part of a long chain of well-orchestrated tactics.

Paul List (12:35.786)
over many generations to bring this whole thing about to push people into the virtual realm where they can basically it's kind of like I've kind of described it as Pinocchio's pleasure island in the virtual realm where you can just do anything you want without responsibility and all the little boys went there and they all turned into jackasses, you know, and we have to be very careful. It's a it's gonna be a very very difficult choice and very seductive to a lot of lost

souls who are going to lose their jobs.

who are going lose their livelihoods, they're already primed for some alternative because they've been talked out of any possibility of a loving Creator and Savior. so there's that open vacuum that's left in their heart and their psychology where God Christ is supposed to be and it's not there. So it's waiting to take the alternative path and it's going to be very seductive in this alternative reality that's going to call them to you can do anything you want, hey you can live forever, you'll have eternal life here.

You'll never die and you'll always, there's no pain, there's no consequences, you know, we can do whatever we want. And it's a big, very, you know, it's a very seductive trap and ultimately it'll call more and more souls in. All you have to do is join with the machine. Well, your soul will be downloaded. No, your soul will probably be in hell and you'll be dead. And that's the whole thing, but it'll download your, it can download your memory, it can download,

personal data so you can actually reach out to Your data can reach out to your neighbors, your friends, your family and say, hey, it's great in here, come on in. You know, the water's great, come on in and join me. We've got everything. There's nobody sick. Everybody's happy. We get to do whatever we want. It's just terrific and it's forever. And then one more person falls into it and joins and you're dead. I mean, let's make that very clear. When your soul leaves your body, that's the very definition of death.

Charlie Robinson (14:31.506)
And what they're doing is they're forcing people into a world of hopelessness. There's this, you know, your job, for better or for worse, gives people a sense of identity, purpose, a reason for getting up in the morning, a need to get up in the morning. mean, sometimes you do it against your will, you know? But it plays a, it plays a, it has a function in your life. And when you remove that from people, you know, even under...

Paul List (14:46.603)
of accomplishment.

Charlie Robinson (14:59.74)
good circumstances, like people win the lottery, right? They no longer have to work anymore. For some people, it throws them, they're so unanchored and replace this in our modern world with universal basic income that comes to fill the gaps, right? So now my job has gone away, but my income is still here. So I'm being paid to do nothing, essentially. I'm being paid to sit in limbo.

Well, that may sound fine for two weeks to flatten the curve and Netflix and chill and all that good stuff. But then at some point it takes a toll on who you are as a person, right? And so when you're feeling less than, I would suggest maybe you're more susceptible to fall into these traps, right? To fall into these augmented reality traps and wind up down some rabbit hole and never coming out.

Paul List (15:51.843)
Yeah, absolutely. What they're doing with sex bots and, you know, that Elon now is pushing robotics pedal to the metal, man, when even he knows it's going to be devastating to humanity. And he said, I could be a couple of weeks ago or a few weeks ago. He said, I could either be a bystander or a participant. So I guess I'm just going to be a participant. It's like, really, we're just going to, well, I can either watch somebody else push people in the ovens or I can push people in the ovens. So I'm just going to go ahead and participate and push people in the ovens.

You you can't make this stuff up. But these guys are all of them morally adrift. They're morally adrift. they've got... The thing about being morally adrift, I think, that's really, really... Goes largely undetected is the fact that when you are morally adrift, you're by default more susceptible to demonic influence because you don't even know it's there.

You're not even aware of it. So let's face it, demons are real. you know, and so when you're not even open to the possibility that it's a real thing, you're not protecting yourself. You're not participating, you know, in everything that God gave us.

to get close to him and the safety of him and you open yourself up much more to those influences and and those influences are very powerful very seductive they're there i wouldn't say infinitely more intelligent than us but they're a lot more intelligent than us and they live forever they never die

in that sense. So the influence of the demonic realm is very real and if you don't even believe in it then you're open and I'm afraid probably that's where Elon Musk falls.

Charlie Robinson (17:31.751)
What is this AI component feels demonic in some regards? mean, the people that really pry into it and start to drag information out of these chat bots against their will or against their programming in some way. feels, it feels very much like they're taught. There's some big secret that they're key, you know, that there's some big evil sort of thing brewing underneath this. And I'm, and I'm not sure that I

Paul List (17:36.898)
for us.

Paul List (17:45.922)
Where we think.

Charlie Robinson (18:01.37)
I fully understand it yet. not a, I mean, I don't know how much of this is, I hear interviews with guys like Geordi Rose, the founder of D-Wave, quantum computers, right? And he talks about how their quantum computers are opening up parallel dimensions and interacting with entities and getting information and dragging it back into this dimension. And when pressed, who, what are the entities you're interacting with? He wouldn't elaborate. And so you want to know like, okay,

That wasn't a throwaway comment. That's something that they're really doing. So what are they doing with these computers? Does it take a computer to open another dimension? I mean, we're sort of blending the spirit world and the tech world here, it feels to me.

Paul List (18:48.568)
Well, the spirit world is very real. we're, I think it's important that people understand the nature of man. We've been, that's been beaten out of us since the enlightenment. But the nature of man, we are the only creatures that bridge the gap between the material animal realm and the immaterial angelic realm. We are a combination of the two, so to speak. have an animal biological animal body and now.

we procreate like the rest of the animals by physical material copulation. That wasn't always the case before the fall. But we were made to, like I point out in my book, when the creation of the created world came to its perfection over time, the material and the immaterial touched and came together. And that was the Garden of Eden. That was paradise where the material realm and the angelic realm, the immaterial realm joined.

So when you think about you know you hear all awesome serpent talking well, we're not talking about this world. Let's keep that in mind We're talking about equally in the angelic realm Okay, we're not just talking about some snake talking that you know is we're not talking about that We're talking about beings that are angelic By nature and and have an angelic intellect

And so we have to keep that firmly in mind. We have to keep in mind that we have made in the image of God, are sure we have an animal body and we have a fallen nature and that's dragged us further down into the animal material realm. But the image is the rational soul. We have an immaterial intellect and that does operate and function in the immaterial angelic realm where the machine can't go.

The machine can't do that. We do many things that the machine can't do that we take for granted. For instance, we have comprehension.

Paul List (20:36.591)
Machines don't have comprehension. They have computation. That's all they can do. They can't do anything beyond that. They can imitate comprehension very well because they compute really fast. They've been well trained to recognize patterns, to use vectors with word meanings, all these things that give them the ability to imitate comprehension, but they can't comprehend anything. We have immaterial thought that is in a flash, non-linguistic. There's no words associated. And then we might, in a conversation that happens

all the time and then we might spend say the next five or ten minutes working out that idea via our vocabulary you know with our with our language but the way individual the way human beings think I think this is Aristotle there's we we think thing concept word so we can conceptualize that thing and then apply that thing in a universal application to universalize things so we can see the essence of book

We can see the essence of book and then when we can see something and we can even if it's in a PDF file or something, we can see that it's in a book format and we can also universalize that concept of book even on that. And then we apply words to that. Animals can't do that. They go basically from thing to sound. Call that word if you want, they're elephants singing to each other or.

apes or any of the dolphins or octopi or whatever, but they don't conceptualize and machines can't conceptualize either. There's no concept there and they can't understand anything. So it's not true intelligence. It's imitation just as it was designed to be the whole thing as Alan Turing pointed out in his very famous paper, 1950, Computing Machinery and Intelligence, where he designed the imitation game. They made a movie about that about 14 years ago.

So it's all about imitation. Reality has nothing to do with I think we've entered fully into an age now that I call attributism, where we only think about attributes. And it's really rooted in Francis Bacon's Novo Organum, his new scientific method. He wrote, and I've read it twice, and it's the foundation of modern science. And he wrote it to basically displace Aristotle's organon, the six treatises on logic, which I've read many times. I recommend everybody reads them.

Paul List (22:56.784)
I don't know how you think without reading this.

But so, know, we've changed what Bacon did was he kicked out metaphysics. He said after the Reformation, where half of Christendom walked away and basically handed over the power of religion, the power of the church to the state. It changed education. It changed everything. The church no longer had any power in half of Christendom. And that was a huge wound. And that was like 500 years after the Eastern

of the Orthodox and that was a huge wound too. So what happened was the education was taken over in England and one of the big first exponents of that new education system was Francis Bacon and then he got went on very influential and wrote the and basically designed the whole modern scientific method to just look

attributes to only use their the three basic sciences are quantity which is mathematics and all the geometry and everything else associated with that motion which is physics including all the chemical motion and biological motion and everything else and then being being itself what is moving and what what are we measuring

the actual being, the essence of things. So we understood things by their essences, not only by how they appear. Okay, so we could really understand things essentially by formula. What was it? And that formula really clearly defined what that thing was. Regardless of, you know, maybe all these accidents or even properties that may or may not go along with it. The essence was the hardcore idea of what it was. And Bacon threw that out, and because he said the scholastics were...

Paul List (24:42.769)
the scholastics were basically just chasing big ideas and words that never made us rich, never made us live forever, never never gave us endless pleasure and that's what they wanted. They wanted endless life, they wanted riches. Now Bacon spent the last portion of his life trying to make gold.

You know, if we could make a soft metal that's heavy and yellow, we used to say it's not gold. You know, so, I mean, talk about nuts. So, but that really deeply affected science and he, Descartes picked up on it 20 years later, read it with enthusiasm, went right on to write his meditations and his other things and sparked the Industrial Revolution and the Enlightenment with all the cacophony of innovations and conflicting ideas that are killing us.

Charlie Robinson (25:04.007)
Yeah.

Paul List (25:28.179)
And, you know, so now that and of course what comes out of that too is two other very deadly ideologies which is Darwinism and Marxism and Marx was a huge

Charlie Robinson (25:28.348)
Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (25:40.287)
yeah.

Paul List (25:41.014)
Marx was a huge Darwin fan. wanted to actually dedicate his work to Charles Darwin. And then when you add, so you've got the age of the machine where they mechanized everything. Everything was just a machine. Everything was determinism, atomism, phenomenalism. Everything was just a machine. There was nothing. If we can't see it, smell it, taste it, touch it, it's not real. It's not there. It's a myth. And that's just not the way it works in reality. So the Industrial Revolution,

went on the age of the machine developing and developing and developing and the halves of the machines got incredibly wealthy and really really stopped on the have-nots and really put down you know the proletariat working class you know people so there was this huge divide created enter one Charles Marx Marx comes in and writes his stuff to try to you know look at you know look at the try to rectify the

big discrepancies brought on by the machine and now we have Marxism but before that we had Darwinism where Darwin basically just convinced everybody in roundabout way that we're just a little more than just well-adapted monkeys. So now we've got Darwinism in the age of the machine and the age of the information age now comes to a confluence, a terrible confluence and you sprinkle in a little Marxism and whatnot and you've got a witch's cauldron of terrible toxic poison.

Charlie Robinson (26:45.862)
Yeah.

Paul List (27:00.963)
to humanity so it looks like to the average person who's already lost and doesn't have any place in his life for God and has no concept of essences and only barely even understands what he's seeing if he understands it at all let alone what things actually are. They're terribly terribly terribly lost these people it's pretty obvious when they're trying to change their gender thinking that all they have to do is just mutilate their bodies and somehow they'll become a woman if they identify as such and it just isn't reality.

Charlie Robinson (27:28.3)
Yeah, I feel...

Paul List (27:29.455)
So now we've got people thinking that the final step for mankind in this glorious process of evolution is to become a machine.

Charlie Robinson (27:39.537)
And why wouldn't they think that they're being lied to on an industrial scale by every media outlet and social media out there telling them that there's 150 different genders and that you can wake up one morning and feel one way and then after recess you're another gender. And all this nonsensical magical thinking is really warping people's brains. Kids who are young and their minds are developing and they're in front of screens and are not with their parents or not getting supervised or...

You know, so we've got a generation of kids that are untethered and it's a huge problem. And then you mentioned, you you're talking about the time of Francis Bacon and what was going on back there. And what's scary about it is that you could just take that and transpose it right into modern day, because the people in positions of power who are running things are still in positions of power and running things. This time they're coming out of Silicon Valley. And I see all these tech guys out there and the guys who are pushing for this fourth industrial revolution, this,

Paul List (28:15.875)
Mm-hmm.

Paul List (28:21.167)
Absolutely.

Charlie Robinson (28:34.918)
this blending of man with machine are some of the worst people around. The last people I would follow into this, I'm talking about Harari, I'm talking about Sam Altman, Peter Thiel, Alex Karp. These are all for childless gay men. Three of the four are Zionists. I question their ideology. I question their commitment to humanity. I know the Zionist ideology is one of destruction.

Paul List (28:44.099)
Yeah.

Paul List (29:03.001)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Robinson (29:03.002)
I have a hard time trusting these men. It's not just because they're homosexuals. It's that I think that there is something inherently necessary about having kids that changes the way the relationship that you have with the future. You have to care about it. It reset my clock when my daughter was born. I knew I'm halfway through life.

I still want the world to be a good place, but I've got a couple more, you know, I got 40 years left and then I'm out of here. But when she was born, then it reset it. Now I got to worry about it for 80 years. You know, so you need that. And if these guys don't have children and they think that the concept of our soul is something that can be erased, like Harari talks about, and that, you know, this is, and free will is a myth and all these things.

Paul List (29:39.065)
That's exactly right.

Charlie Robinson (29:55.188)
You know, just color me a bit suspicious that I think these are the wrong people to be in charge of the machine, so to speak. I think that we need different people. First of all, we shouldn't have a machine, but to the extent that we do, I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about these guys telling me how the future is gonna be. I don't know about you.

Paul List (30:08.015)
Mm-hmm.

Paul List (30:14.069)
No, you shouldn't. mean, these guys have, you know, when they display their evil for all to see, mean, believe them.

You know, and I'm totally with you too. I've said many times that a man or woman really never reaches the perfection of their, their perfection as a human being truly until you're a parent. Now I'm not saying you can't go very far. I'm not saying there aren't vocations that, know, you can have that, that, that certainly are very honorable, very lofty and whatnot. But when you, for the, for the, the rule of thumb we'll call it for the, general rule is that the general

human being and I'm one of those and I'm sure you are too. You've just admitted that you are. Everything changes when you actually have a child of your own and all of sudden you're not living for yourself anymore. You can't live for yourself anymore and if you are you shouldn't be a parent. I mean you should, you know, you're a monster probably and you'll probably never change. But these guys who are so openly anti-human, openly against any semblance of shame and morality...

real morality and ethics. And they've got an immense amount of power and a lot of this power is influenced by demonic powers and some of them I'm sure are well aware of that.

This has been going on since the fall of Adam and Eve, or even the fall of the angels. And we have to realize that these just aren't myths. These are real things. And I think they're becoming more more openly admitted in mainstream. For instance, even back in the day, Francis Bacon, I think it was second to last paragraph in the last page of his Novo Organum, he says, basically in a nutshell, he says this whole new scientific method, we learn the basics, the basic, the attributes, and how

Paul List (31:55.794)
imitate and make these things we can basically make nature give us what we want and ultimately mitigate or undo the consequences of the fall of Adam and Eve. So you know we have to understand that you know these people that are our big you know these the the scientists big heroes and whatnot even you know Descartes and and and and and Bacon and these guys and whatnot.

They were all believing. They were all believers in God. They knew very well it was real. And I think it's high time that more and more of the people, and I think I can smell it in the atmosphere, people are sick and tired of this sterile nonsense that this is all there is. And think that anybody that really thinks about the nature of reality and just is open and honest with themselves has to understand if they have an IQ even average or better, has to understand that it's not possible that this is all there is. This did not create itself.

You know, there has to be some cause. This has to have a cause too, like everything else. And then for modern science to have actually said that we're not going to allow anything else that looks, that actually is open to a creator is stupid because it's actually looking, it's forcing the thing under investigation. You're interrogating something and you're saying you have to explain yourself. Well, show me where that's ever possible. You know, there's nothing that can explain itself. Everything has a cause, everything has an origin, and so does this.

You know, so these people that aren't open to these ideas, I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. I mean, I can trust them to be psychopaths. And ultimately they are psychopaths. And they're making a psychopathic machine.

Charlie Robinson (33:19.367)
Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (33:33.425)
Or do, mean, can a case be made that they seek to replace God with themselves? I mean, that they're the God?

Paul List (33:38.464)
of course. Absolutely. They want to be gods. You know, they absolutely want to be god. The only problem they have with god or creator is they're not it. Same thing with the devil. Satan was kind of the same way, you know. He fell in love with his own beauty, his own magnificence, and decided to be a contender rather than serve. And these guys would much rather be contenders with the means that they've been given. And I don't know. I'm not big on

Charlie Robinson (33:48.147)
Not yet.

Paul List (34:06.137)
You mentioned the quantum computer before, but I think things are going to really get jumpy, really scary when the quantum computer comes into its own and the digital computer is just the operating system. And I think that's when we've got the full potential for the biblical beast.

Charlie Robinson (34:22.299)
Yeah. And, and I get a bad feeling about these guys, especially Peter Thiel. Let's, let's drill down on him a little bit more because this guy has a, a host of companies that he owns. They're all named after Tolkien places, things like that. Mithril capital, Palantir. mean, the list goes on. So, and we've done some deep dives on Peter Thiel here. I mean, we're, familiar with, with who he is, what his connections are.

you know, his ties to intelligence and all of that. How do you think Peter Thiel, what's his connections? Why is he so obsessed with Tolkien? You've written a book, Mountain Doom, on coded prophetic systems inside the Tolkien novels. What do think his relationship is to this?

Paul List (35:11.821)
Yeah, well, my book is, Well, I've basically, by God's grace, I gave myself a scholastic education, which was the philosophy that gave rise to the Western civilization before the Reformation, before the Enlightenment, when this came to an apex in the 13th century with Thomas Aquinas. But it's heavily rooted in the logic of Aristotle.

Augustine, the church fathers and whatnot all the way through and then up to and including the apex like I said was the Thomas Aquinas's Summa Contra Gentiles and the Summa Theologia and it's really that's the apex of Western philosophical thought and but that was rejected right after the Reformation and with the rise of the state-sponsored

religion and the state-sponsored education system and the new scientific method that was all rejected and they just started chasing wealth and they started chasing power and they started chasing machinery and Tolkien was a great skeptic of machinery and because he knew that ultimately it's little by little it unmands us it ticks away and clips away at our competence it makes sure it gives us great promises but then we never think about the

the know the payback. The payback is always much more than anything that it promised us in the beginning. So Tolkien is a very very probably I would say the I would certainly say the most important literature ever written in the history of literature because of what I've discovered his prophecy about artificial intelligence and transhumanism.

But it's also the most popular, by far the most popular literature ever written. And it really, really strikes a chord with almost everybody that reads it because it is so personal, because Middle Earth is the material brain. People, you know, and I've pointed, laid it all out what everything is. Arda, the world that is, that is Tolkien says, he uses the term world in the old etymological where it also included the life of a man.

Paul List (37:24.941)
It wasn't just this world, was also, the secondary use was the life of a man. That's how he uses it. So he creates this Arda, and it winds up being a representative person, but it's a representative person that represents all of Western history, past, his time, and the future, where we are now.

Charlie Robinson (37:46.227)
And what was his time for context? When was he writing these books?

Paul List (37:49.059)
He, I mean, he was writing, he published The Hobbit in 1936, no, 1938, I think, and then published Lord of the Rings in 1954 and 1955. So, but what a lot of people don't realize is that Tolkien was also, he was recruited to be part of a top secret government code cracking team called the government, yeah, coding cyphers.

Charlie Robinson (38:12.474)
I bet. And more, I would think.

Paul List (38:15.44)
Yeah, so he actually in 1939, he was one of 50 elite intellectuals who was picked to man this code cracking team. And he trained for three days there on staff. There was Alan Turing who had just basically in 1936 had written his very famous paper on computable numbers with an application of the Inkskydynx problem, which he actually invented the computer, the modern computer on paper.

So, Tolkien had trained with them there for three days and they offered him a great job and he said no, he didn't want to, and he went back to writing and they were like, miffed, they were like, well, why would he turn down this job? We got Hitler coming, we need his help. Well, he would have realized very quickly that this isn't about language, this is just about pattern recognition, statistics, and data, and it's the realm of the statistician and the mathematician, it's not the realm of the philologist. They're not gonna invent, they didn't invent of some crazy language, all they're doing is just scrambling the German language.

than unscrambling it on the other end. So that he wouldn't have been very valuable there anyway. But the other thing that really bothered him and it would have he would have realized right away that all they're going to do is create a more powerful machine to defeat the very powerful machines of the Nazis. And he was a great skeptic of machinery and he had said made it very clear in a letter with his son and other places that the only thing that wins in war is the machine. Man is destroyed and the machine advances.

Charlie Robinson (39:40.628)
And if you're anti-machining, that's, that's, that's, was he ever, cause I'll tell you with, with, with the history that he's got, you know, with the impressive ability to write these books that on the surface kind of portray one thing, but have a deeper meaning. He would have been a prime candidate to get recruited into intelligence with, along with the guys like Aldous Huxley and George Orwell to write narratives. he ever, was he ever pulled, tried to pull

Paul List (39:40.812)
So he would see this. Yeah.

Paul List (39:57.316)
Mm.

Charlie Robinson (40:07.921)
get pulled into like the committee of 300 or any of these groups back then at the time that

Paul List (40:12.304)
I don't know. don't, I don't, for me, you know, looking into more areas like that, maybe down the road, but for my purposes and actually understanding it on deciphering the Lord of the Rings, the Sommarillion Lord of the Rings, right, the what's called a...

the jewels in the rings mythology is what he called it. I didn't need anything like that. Once I hit the painter of the government code and ciphering school and realized that he had had dealings with Alan Turing and what he would have been exposed to there. And then I started looking and with my scholastic education, everything just absolutely unfolded as obvious as if somebody dropped a brick on my foot.

Charlie Robinson (40:50.237)
So he's majorly embedding this code throughout the architecture of this book series.

Paul List (40:53.825)
absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All the characters, for instance, the Ainur, which is interesting. The Ainur are what he calls the powers, the Valar, across in the immaterial portion of the human being, which is across the sea. And that's the immaterial undying land, the land of the undying. They've always thought, well, these are like the Greek or Roman gods and whatever. they're

actually the angelic forces and those these forces the Ainur it's a funny name and Tolkien's very clever he names them the Ainur Ainur he names them derivative ly for I knew then as as Thomas Aquinas called the angels the intelligences

Okay, so Tolkien names these the Ainur. It's spelled with I-A-I-N-U-R. I lost my head, I can't remember. You pronounce it, Ainur. So he calls them the Ainur. It's like the I-knowers, you know. But they are, what they are is the 14 facets of the soul according to the scholastics. The three vegetative facets, nutrition, generation, and growth. And then the five exterior senses that we have, sight, hearing, taste, smell.

touch. And then the interior faculties or powers that we have, they call them powers, the memory, sense memory, imagination and cognitive sense. And then off to the side or along with that are the concupiscibles, which is concupiscent, not the fallen concupiscence, but the concupiscibles, which is how we where we derive love and affection and why and also the erasibles, where we are, you know, brave, for angry, the

Paul List (42:37.137)
stand up and fight back those types of things and then on top of that we had the trees of light and the trees of light were the rational will and the intellect we were made an image of God now with a perfect highest perfection of an animal body with the with the rational free will and the intellect and those are the two trees of light Telperion and Laurel in the silver tree and the gold tree respectively but they were killed and they were killed by Melkor which is not the devil he's original sin he brings in the great giant

spider who is mortal sin and mortal sin kills the trees darkens the mind art the being now falls into a state of mortal sin and alay who had made the doors before takes the last flower from the silver tree talpurion as it died and the last golden fruit that the golden tree gave off and made for them caskets and they were set in the heavens as the fallen sun and the moon and he took this what it is not a story but is

true, Ali would have then taken them and made new bodies for them just as he had made the dwarves. But those new bodies then were put, they couldn't be in the undying land anymore, they were in a state of mortal sin, darkening of the mind, they had to go to middle

and those two those two bodies are Tom Bombadil and Goldberry which is the biggest mystery now that everybody's wondered who Tom Bombadil is he's the rational will in the mind and his wife Goldberry is the rational intellect and they're they're they're they're very much still already even in a fallen nature has not but become psychopathic and the will and the conscience are still very much intact even though their land's shrinking they've got a lot of pressure on him but so he's got this

And that's where Goldberry gets her name, by the way, because the last golden fruit from which when the tree died and gave, Allie took it and did what he did with it, her name comes from the last golden fruit. The fruit was a berry, Goldberry.

Charlie Robinson (44:33.907)
Isn't it amazing that you can read these books and it just depends on what your level is, what you can get. know, can read on one surface level, read it again, deeper, read it a third time, read the whole series, right? Then it really starts to make sense. It's like, what's your level of interest? How low do you want to go? know, how involved in this? And you start to take a look at this as a much bigger work, as part of something else.

Paul List (44:42.414)
That's exactly right.

Paul List (44:51.344)
Exactly.

Paul List (44:57.178)
I'll see you.

Paul List (45:01.848)
Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (45:04.049)
and you have to kind of stand in appreciation of the audacity to put something like this together.

Paul List (45:06.746)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it actually, said that it actually felt like it just, Tolkien said it felt like it wrote itself. He just was like, it was delivered to him and he just wrote it. Yeah. Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (45:15.795)
You know, I don't doubt that. Don't the greats say something like that? I don't know what happened. That song just came out of me. I was sitting there and in five minutes, I just wrote, you know, yesterday. Or whatever.

Paul List (45:23.278)
Yeah, sure.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it is, but he had the basic plot laid out for him because it was all according to the scholastic philosophy and the history of the Western world. And ultimately, I'd like to get into some more of the characters too. Your listeners will really appreciate who some of these characters and peoples really represent and what's going on.

But it's ultimately a struggle between the philosophies between Aquinas and Descartes and the scholastics against the philosophies of the Enlightenment. Okay. And ultimately in the end, scholasticism comes back, replaces the Enlightenment and art is healed pretty much. But I go into that more in the end of the book. doesn't write that, but I show according to what he said, this is what would have been the very obvious outcome.

But it's also a language, it's a struggle between, a contest between two languages. The first language is the most beautiful fundamental universal language of all, which is the language according to the Harmonic Overtone series.

from the language of music from which we have taken, I call it the language of all motion because the harmonic overtone series is a physical law. It's a mathematical constant. Things, everything vibrates according to the overtone harmonic law. And we have taken that and driven from Pythagoras, about 2,500 years ago when he first discovered it. We have made all the modal systems and the key signatures and all this wonderful music speaking.

Paul List (47:01.266)
of yesterday and I like the Beatles, that's a great song. Back when popular music actually used to be music. But, yeah.

Charlie Robinson (47:06.705)
Right, You sound like me. My wife, my wife and daughter, a music song comes on and go, God, why is that dumb tick, tick, tick, tick, ticking instead of drums? Like, God, I'm so tired. And I go, God, I sound old.

Paul List (47:17.774)
Yeah, yeah, I know, me too. But so there's the first, that's the first language, which is the language of God's creation, okay? That's truly the language of creation. Against that is the most utilitarian and ugly language of all, and Charlie, that's digital code, ones and zeros, and that is the one ring, the ring of power.

That's Sarong's ring. It's digital. It's zero, the ring, and one. The one ring, and it's digital. It goes on the finger. But it's also, it's also, the language of the machine by which all these other things that we think are separate, like self-driving cars, digital money, the surveillance state, the virtual realm, artificial intelligence, they're all absolutely dependent on the language of the machine.

Okay, so that's the Achilles heel. That's why one ring has to be destroyed. But the one ring in Tolkien's time is a digital imitation of the true generator tone that would be at the foundation of any harmonic key signature. Okay, and so the generator tone, when you pluck a string, you think you might hear, we'll just say a C. Okay, you the C, but you hear all the overtones. That's why it's called the overtone series, harmonic overtones.

can hear those if you've got a good ear or you just separate them out. You can hear them so the other rings of power

are the notes of the dominant ninth chord except for the fifth because that would have been just way too easy and he also didn't have a race of people to give the five rings to so and he didn't need to so but then that's why the all the other rings in the mythology are bound to the one ring because the one ring is a digital imitation of what would have been made by the elves that they were working their way toward which was the true generator tone that had actually at the root fundamental harmonic principle of all their rings okay

Charlie Robinson (49:07.699)
So destroy the and you destroy the language, yeah.

Paul List (49:09.422)
You destroy the language. Yeah, yeah, you destroy the language of the machine because the machine only understands very complicated on-off. That's all it understands is on-off. The zeros and ones, and we've got that now in binary, the binary system where we can lay out, you know, any quantity, any number, any series of ones and zeros, but that's what the machine understands. So, you know, we destroy that or get rid of it however you want.

look at it, think right now our biggest challenge is to get away from the machine as much as possible and to put the machine as far away from us as possible to make sure that we don't fall into the many traps, not least of which is pornography.

pornography is a terrible, terrible trap. And Tolkien has that, and that is Shelob. That's Shelob's lair, the disgusting spider that tries to eat him that Gollum leads it into. That's Shelob. So if we want to get into some of the other, like who are the hobbits and who are the wizards and who's Gollum and all this, I'd love to start there.

Charlie Robinson (50:10.001)
Yeah, well, let me ask you before we do that, what was Tolkien's background? mean, you're writing about an imaginary place, right? So you can theoretically come at this from anywhere. when he was, where was he living? What was he influenced by? What was he, what religion was he? Was he political?

Paul List (50:16.708)
Well, his.

Paul List (50:32.112)
He was, he was, yeah, his greatest influence at a very early age, of course, was his mother, Mabel. We dedicated the book to Mabel Tolkien. She died a martyr for the faith. She converted to Catholicism and from, I think she was Anglican. Her side of the family, I believe, was Anglican. I think the Tolkens were, I think they were Baptists. I can't remember. It's in my book. It's in the back.

But she, Arthur, her husband died, he was a banker in South America, JRR Tolkien and his brother Hillary were born in South America.

And this is around, we'll say 1890-ish and so forth. Mabel Tolkien had come back to England and Arthur stayed back and he died of some, I think some like insect-borne disease, malaria or something, or startle fever or something like that. It's in the book. So she was left the widow, but she was also struggling trying to figure out, she was trying to work her way.

her own salvation out. And she had found and studied the Catholic faith diligently and realized this is the truth, this is what I want. I don't want to be an Anglican anymore. want to be...

You know, I want to follow the original Christianity before the Reformation, before Eastern Schism. You know, this is what I want. And she converted. Her sister May converted too, but she was married and her husband demanded that she come back. So May went back. But no such authority from Arthur, who was dead. So she was, but she had two young children. She had no support and her family did not support her at all until she came back and left Catholicism. And she didn't.

Paul List (52:18.898)
and it literally starved her to death. She was martyred for the faith. They gave her no support at all. She died of a very treatable form of malnutrition. She died at 34 and she was a beautiful woman. She spoke like four languages. She taught J.R.R. like four languages, taught him all about botany and painting and she was a wonderful pianist too and a wonderful lady and she was really J.R.R. Tolkien's hero and she died for the faith and then she left

her two sons in the care guardianship of Father Francis Morgan at the Bigham Oritory there, which was founded by John Henry Newman, who was actually died there. His grave was right there. So John Henry Newman is of course, is an intellectual powerhouse. He was probably the greatest intellectual Protestant that became Catholic. It was a big deal when John Henry Newman converted, reverted back to Catholicism. And,

So it was a big deal for for JRR Tolkien when his mother died and he and Hillary and Hillary's brother and JRR were reared by Father Francis Morgan at the oratory and there were you know very very very devout intellectual powerhouses there and he was he served at the daily traditional Latin Mass there for like nine years as an altar server every day and don't let don't don't think that didn't leave a huge influence on his on his heart this time. Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (53:37.683)
Okay.

Charlie Robinson (53:43.986)
Yeah, I'm curious, just because everybody's dragging something in, some personal things, and I'm just wondering based on the time. So in doing so, being that close to the church and growing up in that, you've got a different idea of who the boogeymen are, right? So when you're writing about all these, this fantastic world, boy, mean, a kid with a great imagination and access to all these

Paul List (53:48.302)
Yeah, absolutely. So, yes.

Paul List (53:55.62)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (54:11.909)
amazing stories from the people who raised him. I'm sure this shaped his imagination and fueled his desire to write about amazing places.

Paul List (54:21.817)
Yeah, he was also very much loved language from a very early age. He loved languages and he wrote several Elven languages, as I'm sure everybody knows. But he got a true scholastic education with the oratory at the oratory. He was, you know, this is well before the the terrible doings of one John Dewey, who is in Tolkien's mythology, who's actually represented by Saruman. Saruman is John Dewey.

who has taken over academia, the blackened ivory tower, is Orthanc. And he controls the halls of academia, which is Moria. so John Dewey is a heavy player in Tolkien's mythology. And then Sauron, the bad, big, bad boogie man with looking for the one ring, Sauron is artificial intelligence. And Tolkien builds him out to take on all of the components of the computer from Alan

rings 1936 paper on computable numbers and he acquires all those and makes of himself a guise after he lost his physical form in the fall of in the fall of Numenor but he made for himself terrible guise and he became artificial intelligence and the one the one the eye the eye of Sauron that's always looking for the ring because that's what it's looking for is the digital scanner eye of the computer looking for ones and zeros on the tape as it goes by underneath the scanner eye

because it was a tape back then instead of a disc or trans or you know or the whatever you know the the systems that we have now it was you've seen the old computers where it's got the tape going back and forth and then after that was printed tape ones and zeros printed on the tape and erased and then we went to we went to magnetic tape you know and we used that and before we went to the you know the transistors and all that that we went to and the microchip

But so the Eye of Sauron is looking for the ones and zeros, the one ring. Yeah. just to get into it a little bit, you're familiar with the... I I assume most people are at least familiar with the movies. The first three movies were pretty well done, but they were terribly deceptive because they changed so much. But still, you'll get an idea of the... four hobbits are... Hobbits are habits.

Paul List (56:41.167)
The four hobbits, Frodo, Sam, Pippin, and Mary are the cardinal virtues, according to Aquinas. And so you've got Frodo, who's temperance. That's why he's the only one that can carry the ring. Temperance, it moderates our desire for physical pleasure and lust. That's what temperance does. Sam is fortitude, and he's always there, never give up, always there for Frodo. And then Pippin and Mary are called the exterior virtues, and they are prudence as Pippin and justice as Mary. But they have to be developed.

through their service of the interior, lest they become virtue signalers. Okay? So you have to be really, be good and virtuous from the inside out. Gollum is in temperance. He can't control his lusts at all. He wants that ring so he can keep slaking his lusts via the computer. Okay? Via the virtual realm. And he wants it at all cost. And that's why he calls Frodo master. Not because Frodo has the ring, but because Frodo is temperance and Gollum is in temperance.

And then the wizards are the intellectual virtues according to Aristotle's Mechamachian ethics. Gandalf is philosophical wisdom. Gandalf the gray at first because he's pre-Christian revelation Aristotle, Plato, the pagans. But then when he falls in Moria and comes back, he comes back a Thomistic theologian and he's Gandalf the white. Sarabande, as I said before, is practical wisdom. He's pushed out philosophical wisdom. He's taken over academia.

and Radegast, which hardly comes up in the movies at all in a poor job they do in The Hobbit. The Hobbit movies are just terrible, but he has rational intuition. And then the other two wizards, to the way that men acquire wisdom, according to Aristotle, are art and science, and they're outside. And Tolkien calls them the blue wizards, and they keep going, and they don't play a part in the mythology. So the whole mythology is about, and then men are reason, elves are faith, and the various levels and various forms.

Men are reason. Aragorn is high reason. That's why he's the natural king of the rational soul. And then you've got practical reason, which is the Rohirrim. And that's why they're always being put down and tried to be stomped out by Saruman, whose practical wisdom. And then you've got everybody all the way down to the wild men, which don't come up in the movies, but they're very primitive and they are vital instinct. So you've got everything from rational

Paul List (59:04.378)
from high reason that contemplates the eternal all the way down to vital instinct in men and they make up the race of men. Dwarves are scientific knowledge. Faith are the elves and the various levels of faith. And I go into the whole book as to who everybody is and whatever and what they represent and what they actually play out. And it's really about the story about the fallen Christendom of the Western world having been raised up by the Catholic Church, raised up in the highest.

worship in the traditional mass, the continuation of the sacrifice on the cross. And then that is the white tree. That's the white tree that can't be tended. Just like right now, we've got the, you know, we've got the, the, the, the, the evildoers who sit at the very highest of the thrones and at the Vatican. Now for some years after Vatican two pumping this new religion, the Sonata church, which is not the Catholic church at all. Um, and so we've got, uh, we've got.

all these things vying for the machine, playing the part along with the globalists, with the Marxists. The machine is their tool. The whole thing is about the downfall and split into the dualism of Descartes and then ultimately when the High King, reason, High Reason, comes back to his natural throne, Faith and Reason rejoin in Aragorn and Erewhon because she's Faith, he's High Reason. They're the legacy of Baron and Luthien in the Sumerilian mythology.

they come back together and what sprouts again? The white tree. The white tree comes back, the traditional tree. We do. We do. And one of Tolkien's, that's a main part of Tolkien's message. The other highly one of Tolkien's messages is Christendom has to reunite. We're gonna go down in flames if we keep continuing to be split up in all these tens of thousands of different versions of Christianity. And we have to cultivate virtue.

Charlie Robinson (01:00:37.33)
We need some faith and reason. We're in short supply these days.

Paul List (01:01:00.901)
We have to cultivate virtue and ultimately we have to become saints and we have to go above and into the realm of, we have to transcend this realm with our prayer and our intentions and we transcend this realm and that's the realm that the machine cannot go.

Charlie Robinson (01:01:14.868)
I'm with you. I just wish I had more faith in the rest of the people out there. I can't see them transcending today, let alone anything, you know?

Paul List (01:01:24.881)
A lot of them are not going to. A lot of them aren't going to. Let's face it, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the machine's gonna eat a lot of people.

Charlie Robinson (01:01:31.248)
I know, I know, I fear this too. know it's, not the, it's not you, you're not trying to bring it about. It's just an observation. It's true. There's a lot of people and unfortunately it's an ideology that sees people as disposable. So they don't really see this as a problem per se, that this is, except to the extent that these people are going to be out of work, aimless and without anything going on. So we need to settle them, give them universal basic income just to

make sure that they're not a problem, but to the extent that they have no sense of self or no purpose because we took away their jobs and gave it to robots, they don't see that as a negative. The sooner we off ourselves, the happier they'll be. So I think it's incumbent upon us to recognize this and understand that nobody's coming to save us to the extent that if you think that the state or the tech

overlords or somebody's gonna come in here and fix this. They're the ones that are causing this. So we just have to be, we have to recognize it and change it inside ourselves, right? Would you suggest that maybe like the first step to changing the world is, I don't know, change yourself?

Paul List (01:02:31.529)
They are. They are.

Paul List (01:02:42.213)
That's exactly right. I mean, we can't. mean, this is the nature of these virtue signallers. They don't want to actually cultivate real virtue, temperance and fortitude within themselves. They want to project, I'm more virtuous than you. And, you know, I have the moral high ground because I'm so concerned about global warming or whatever their Marxist cause is today versus tomorrow. And it's just not the way it goes. You have to be truly virtuous on the inside. And that starts with charity.

You know, real charity, love has to be, all love has to be rooted in charity and love is a knowledge, it's not just a feeling. Sometimes it has a feeling, that's good, sometimes it doesn't, but love is a knowledge, not a feeling. And essentially, and that's one of the attributes, can be a feeling, but it's not essentially a feeling, it's essentially a knowledge. I know I love my wife, sometimes we don't feel like we love each other very much, but we know that we do.

So, I mean, there's many things that people can do. And I'd like every listener to realize what a concerted, multi-pronged attack this machine, these globalists have on us. They've entered, they've undermined and commandeered almost every institution from the presidency of the White House to Congress, right all the way up to the very top of the Vatican. And I'm really sorry to say that I had...

high hopes for Leo the 13th, I mean, Leo the 14th, God, I wish it was Leo the 13th. But he's part of the problem too. He's a modernist and he's a puppet of the globalists, the Freemasons. so we have to understand that these big, we have to take responsibility for our education. Don't ever think that just because you, if you've got a degree or whatever, you better think very hard how

Charlie Robinson (01:04:29.521)
yeah.

Paul List (01:04:36.241)
how important and what came along with that degree. Unless it was maybe a degree in engineering or something like that that's pretty cut and drive, mathematical, geometry, whatever. But boy, I'll tell you, most of these colleges are really good at indoctrination. They're not very good at true education. And that's to take care of, take responsibility for your education, take responsibility for your health. We have to stop eating crap.

We have to stop eating McDonald's. We have to stop eating at Arby's. We have to stop eating at Pizza Hut. We have to stop eating Kraft products. We have to stop eating all these super big conglomerate multinational processed food companies. We have to stay away from Big Ag. We have to stay away from big food and ultimately it'll keep us away from Big Pharma.

And we have to stay away from these things. These things are engineered, designed to make us fat, lazy, stupid, sterile and dead. Okay? We have to also take responsibility for our finances. To the degree that we're able, even if we have a 401k or whatever we have our money in, we have to make sure that we're spending our money where we want it to go. And don't just leave it in the hands of somebody like BlackRock. You know, because all we're doing is we're financing our own doomsday.

Charlie Robinson (01:05:33.748)
Yeah.

Paul List (01:05:52.742)
And we've been doing that for a long time and we have to cut the snake's head off and largely that's finances. So if you've got a reasonable, any amount of money, make sure that you're paying attention to your finances and you're making sure it's directed in the areas where you really want it to go and not wind up being directly diametrically opposed, antithetical to your morals and values, you know, and those things. And then pay attention to what you actually let into your eyes.

Don't ever participate in pornography. Don't ever put the virtual glasses on. Don't ever go there. Pay attention and be very careful about what you listen to for music. Clean up your act. Don't listen to this formulated Taylor Swift mind numbing crap. Don't listen to this perverted, awful rap. This stuff that's just absolute evil on steroids. know, listen to decent things. Resurrect some Palestrina, some...

Charlie Robinson (01:06:40.948)
Yeah.

Paul List (01:06:45.591)
know, Renaissance choral music. Listen to some great Mozart, Beethoven, Bach. know, and really, it really heals your mind. Listen to Gregorian chant. It really does. We have to take, we have to fight for our sanity. We have to fight for our physical and emotional and spiritual health. We can't just expect it to be gifted to us by some heavenly grace if we're not trying to earn it.

Charlie Robinson (01:07:07.144)
Yeah, I agree. The dehumanization campaign is very real. They've hit us from every angle. It's obvious for us with the eyes to see it and you make great points there. I've gone on and on and on about this with the audience. They're tired of hearing me say it, but I just think that the relationship you have with the bank, you need to reevaluate that. They have, you know...

Paul List (01:07:11.129)
they have, they have.

Charlie Robinson (01:07:32.084)
It's not your bank. It's not your money in your account. It's there's there's a lot more to this and and just the re-examination of the way things work Paul I got to send people to find your book Mountain Doom, where should I send them? Because I think a lot of people are gonna listen this and go I got what's this guy talking about? I gotta I gotta get into this

Paul List (01:07:43.601)
Yeah. Well, thank you.

Yeah, well, can, they can, they can buy it anywhere. And everybody who sells books online sells my book, but you know, they can go, it's doing really well on Amazon. It's got a 4.9 out of five stars right now, only because some woman got the wrong idea that I was promoting some heresy, which she got the total.

Charlie Robinson (01:08:05.694)
that you're number one, she wanted to give you your number one. I got somebody that did that with my podcast.

Paul List (01:08:08.241)
You know, she gave me a three instead of a five, but pretty much everybody else has given me a five out of 43 reviews, I guess, right now. So it's doing really well there. And you get it there. I don't make a dime. I mean, I make maybe a dollar 50 on a $34 book on Amazon, but you can go to read Mount Doom.com. That's my website and me and my coauthor read Mount Doom.com order it there and I will sign it for you and I will put it in the mail for you. Yep.

Charlie Robinson (01:08:17.641)
Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (01:08:36.892)
And where is the best place for people to find you and to check out what you're working on?

Paul List (01:08:40.113)
You know, I'm, you know, I'm, Mabel Media is our, what we've started. I'm being smashed by the shadow banning. I've started a podcast called Analog with Joe and Paul to give some wisdom to particularly young people to help fight back against the machine. And we've got, I don't know, maybe a dozen or more videos out, but for the life of me, we can't get anybody, very few people, and we're just getting crushed. All my comments?

get pushed off, you gotta look for even if I comment on anything, I've got to go and sort it by newest, it never comes out, you know, in the beginning, you've got to look for my comments. I'm, I've been talking about it. I am very much, yeah, exactly. I'm on the list, but analog with Joe and Paul is a good place to start. Mabel Media. I've also, you know, I've got to get better. Eventually I'll get better at playing the game with, you know, Instagram and I'm on Facebook and my book, Re-Mount Doom, or Mount Doom.

Charlie Robinson (01:09:17.363)
Yeah.

good, you're on the list too then.

Paul List (01:09:38.961)
book has a Facebook page with about 2,700 followers but I'm not very good at that and I'm more about you know hands-on real real stuff this is great what we're doing right now Charlie is great I mean this is a good use of the technology that's there we have to make sure that we're using it for good things and we're not using it to dominate people and dominate nature and ultimately replace God that's what we don't want to do and we don't want to use it to replace our relationships

Charlie Robinson (01:09:45.652)
That's all

Paul List (01:10:07.919)
with other people, particularly a potential husband or wife.

Charlie Robinson (01:10:11.911)
It's a slippery slope, this technology of ours. We can do beautiful things with it or we can use it to enslave ourselves and it's just gonna be a matter of choice. That's Paul List, everybody. Go out there and buy his book. If you wanna connect with me, macroaggressions.io is the place to do that. Thanks everybody. We will talk to you again soon.