last minute cruise_mixdown
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to the Mr Pick, me and the Man Hater Show. I'm Reagan, AKA, the man hater, even though I don't hate men. And you are Hello.

Speaker 2: What? Just kidding. I'm Jessica acting. I did get you though. I did get you.

Speaker: I love that your thought process is what would be really good for a podcast is acting like our equipment is not working.

Speaker 2: I think it, I think the people who get it get it. And the people that don't will just stop listening after this show. My name is, I am known on this podcast as Mr. Pick Me, even though I've already been picked.

Speaker 3: Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. Here we go. Go. No, I'm not gonna freestyle it again. That one time

Speaker 3: people did like your rap.

You got did some good reviews. Is

Speaker 2: that new theme song.

Speaker 3: No, eh, [00:01:00]

Speaker 2: I mean, I know we have an actual professional rapper with albums that I got to make our current one, but

Speaker 3: I don't, I don't know if I could stand editing week after week.

Speaker 2: My name is Jessica M here to

Speaker 3: here is Reagan hating the man.

Speaker 2: I don't remember what I said because I just made it up on the spot that time.

So

Speaker 3: it was something like that.

Speaker 2: Uh, it was good. It was good. It was solid. And, and if I try it again, it won't be as good. It won't. That's true. And so I have to, I have to leave people thinking I'm capable of doing that whenever I want rapping. Yeah. Freestyling.

Speaker: Are you? Do give us another freestyle? I don't,

Speaker 2: no.

I wanna leave. I want people That's good for the Patreon.

Speaker: No, it's not. You didn't wrap on the Patreon.

Speaker 2: Next week's Patreon. I will, I will genuinely try to make a freestyle wrap based on their suggestions.

Speaker: Everyone, I won't read the comments. We will go ahead and put this in the long list of things, Checo promises and never does.[00:02:00]

Speaker 2: Eventually I'm gonna watch Happy Gilmore too.

Speaker: I know. I was gonna say, how's Happy Gilmore too? How was your viewing? I haven't seen

Speaker 2: it. Haven't

Speaker: seen it yet. He was like, okay, I'm gonna watch it and we're gonna do a full pre-show review.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Did you watch it?

Speaker 2: Did not. Still haven't. I have started watching Strange New Worlds, which by the, I'm in season two.

Speaker 3: What is that?

Speaker 2: Star Trek? It's like, uh, captain Pike before Enterprise, before, uh, Kirk. Very good. If any other Trekkies are followers, I'm one of you, been going to Star Trek conventions since I was a little boy. Uh, I'm one of you. I'm one of you. And, uh, I love Stark. Star Trek is my, of all the sci-fi franchises.

I think Star TK is, I love Star Trek, the best

Speaker 3: old school, star Trek. I really loved, I watched that with my dad.

Speaker 2: Yeah,

Speaker 3: I do love it. T wait,

Speaker 2: like original or TNG. Mm-hmm. Original. Okay. Original Star Trek.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Okay. I, I, uh, next Generation was my jam. I used to watch it with my mom. Oh, nice. So good. And Deep [00:03:00] Space Ninet.

Space nine was really good. That's a really underrated franchise. Voyager was good at the beginning and the end. Sad. It ended.

Speaker 3: The middle was not good. Is that what you think? Middle? I don't,

Speaker 2: I don't remember. I have to re-watch it. I don't remember the middle being well done. I think she was great. Yeah. Like I've always, I think Jane Way is one of the best captains in the history mm-hmm.

Of, I think she just played that so good. Mm-hmm. I just, I feel, I felt like here a good example. Uh, another like, uh, with, uh, Dr. Who, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, like I, uh, fricking it's my, that's also like, that's right there with it. It's like mm-hmm. They go back and forth Star Trek and Dr. Who. Um, but, uh, depending on, like, there's certain doctors, like, uh, I, David Tenets one of my favorite doctors, like, I don't think Russell t Davies is a great writer.

I think he comes up with pissing some. This is gonna make some people very angry of the very specific audience. I think Russell t Davies comes up with [00:04:00] great ideas for stories.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. And

Speaker 2: then we, it just, it, it was, it's fun to watch, but I would not count, I would not call his stories. Good. Like, and like well written.

And I'm versus like, uh, like Moffitt I know has some issues. Um, but he was a fantastic writer. And so you, and you can see the transition from Russell T. Davis, Steven Moffitt. 'cause it's like, oh, these stories actually are fully fleshed out and they're

Speaker 3: going somewhere.

Speaker 2: They're going somewhere. They're not just, it's not just a lot of, uh, oh, what's the term for when the, um, the, the solution just comes outta nowhere?

Um, oh my God. Bootstrap, uh, paradox. Is that the word I'm looking for?

Speaker 3: Hold on. Bootstrap Paradox. I don't know that I've heard that before.

Speaker 2: Hold on. Let me make sure I am not just talking out of my rear. Uh. Oh, no, that's a completely different thing. Hold on, let me look up

Speaker 3: what's up. [00:05:00] Bootstrap Paradox.

Speaker 2: Bootstrap Paradox is when, uh, it, it, it's kind of the, it actually put out, are you talking about

Speaker 3: ex Mina? Is that what you're looking for?

Speaker 2: Yeah, do, there you go. That's what I'm thinking of. Where, where it's like the solution is just kind of like created out of scratch. It's like, all right, well we are three fourths of the way through this.

They're in an impossible situation. How are they gonna fix it? Here's this thing that had nothing with this thing appeared with any of the, the, the build in this episode that just happens to solve it. That is like Russell t Davies. People can shit on me and be mad at me if I, but, and 'cause I, and, and I can't stress this enough.

I fucking love Dr. Who. I just don't think Russell t Davies is, is the best writer. I think he's very tedious. And

Speaker: you know

Speaker 2: what?

Speaker: You have the right to your opinion, Chaco, I have the right, unless it's about Taylor Swift and then the internet will

Speaker 2: kill you, Megan. No, don't do it. Oh no.

Speaker: Our podcast just explode.

Eight 80,000 white women appear behind you. Take me into the where somebody who wouldn't

Speaker 2: know. Reagan. Reagan, [00:06:00] they found you. This isn't even on the internet yet.

Speaker: Oh man.

Speaker 2: Um, so what are we learn? What are we talking about today? Reagan?

Speaker: Not Taylor Swift. I can guarantee you that. No. Uh, what we're talking about today.

There was a woman who. Posted a story about her husband and a quote unquote surprise cruise that people have a lot of questions about.

Speaker 2: Theme suck.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker 4: You want bad advice, man. I'll give it out. Glad I got some good advice for you. You don't,

don't I got some good advice for you. No, you don't.

Speaker 2: I don't. Shit. This is one of the few episodes where I have no idea what video we're responding to yet, and so I get to be the one that is, and maybe it's a made up person like, like what happened to me? Maybe for [00:07:00] once you'll be the victim of

Speaker: I can't get over when It was No

Speaker 2: Good Nicks

Speaker: when it was clearly one of his buddies being like, oh, hi, it's Smith wife character.

Speaker 2: Listen. I don't know what to tell you. The internet and it's, I can't even blame, like AI is getting really good. It wasn't even that. You wanna see me? If any of you are a Patreon, me, our Patreon, we put, we posted my fuck up on the Patreon, uh, for everybody. And it is, it's so good. I do look as bad as I was hoping or worried about, so, uh, it's great.

Anyways.

Speaker: Oh man. Any who? This is, this is for reals, I think. 'cause there's been follow ups.

Speaker 2: God, the, the internet is just filled with so much fake stuff right now and it's so cl it's still so clearly fake to me though. Like, how are people still, because Yeah, people

Speaker: are moving weird. Oh, have you seen the one where they're on like a train or a bus and she's like, this is my husband.

[00:08:00] Mm-hmm. It's a, it's a black woman and a white guy and he's like, oh, what? Mm-hmm. That one is ai and that one fooled a lot. That one does look, and

Speaker 2: that one does look, that one's pretty cool of the ones because it's not like. Unbelievable that that could happen. Also,

Speaker: I saw to choke to death. Mm-hmm. I saw one where like, this guy was proposing to a woman and out of, there's like a raccoon or a possum crawling across a board, uhhuh, and then it drops on him.

He is like, oh my God, there's a, there's a possum on me. And she's like, oh no. But I was like that, that's my time. I think what makes me upset, time to not real.

Speaker 2: Everyone's so scared that things are AI now because it's getting so like, realistic that like, I, I'll still to this day now, whenever I, I think I've done a pretty good job of, of like getting my, my, like the stuff I filmed with my nicer camera.

It'll look just like me now, but still, anytime I film something on it, they are like, ai. It's [00:09:00] ai. I am like, why? Why would that be a, why would I use that

Speaker: for ai?

Speaker 5: You know what, this

Speaker: listeners, this beef has become personal for Checo because ever since he's gotten his new camera, he has had wild accusations of him being ai.

Didn't someone, is this ai, didn't someone contact you? And like someone's making AI videos of me. It's, yeah. They're upset at me. I'm

Speaker 2: like,

Speaker: it's Jessica, Jessica, Jessica, Jessica. I had one time that I made a video and TikTok put like made by ai. Mm-hmm. Underneath it. And I still, to this day, I am like, what?

What? That was just me in my office. Yeah.

Speaker 2: No, AI doesn't I get, I get that. It doesn't look somebody, although I bought a new lens, so we're gonna see how this works. Somebody said it was just really weird seeing my ears. Like, you could tell I had ears in it, because normally you can't hear it like, like, whoop, still nothing there.

Like you can't tell that my ears are there. But if I'm on a, the way cam, for [00:10:00] those of you that don't, how camera lenses work, the higher or the, the lens, uh, uh, gets like 35, 50, 85 millimeter, et cetera. The more you, you can see the person's full head, right? Mm-hmm. And so a fish eye lens is gonna like, which is what most cameras and webcams are, makes your head look a little distorted.

And so most people still, you can see their ears. I have very aerodynamic ears, and so mine disappear. I have

Speaker 3: aerodynamic ears. That's yes. If

Speaker 2: I was, if I was a swimmer, I'd be unstopped. Michael Phelps. Yes. I mean that. Aside from the fact that I don't have the ability to swim or muscles or any of the other things that, but the ear factor would not be playing a role.

Speaker 3: It's a game changer. That's a number one thing. Swim. I do think I've that swim before

Speaker 2: they would ban me from the Olympics for having performance enhancing ears.

Speaker: Yeah. They wouldn't let Michael Phelps swim if that was the case. 'cause he's got all those like [00:11:00] crazy things that weird mutations

Speaker 2: that make him.

Speaker: He was made in a lab. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Just kidding. Michael Phelps. I had a crush on Michael Phelps. I gotta be honest with you. I had a, a magnet of him in my locker in middle school.

Speaker 2: Hey, there is a thing about being, because I, I understand this, like, being attracted to people that are really good at something.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like when somebody is like really good at something, even if they're not traditionally at attract, I hate that. Like there's, it's a weird conversation to have right.

About attraction. But like, even when they're not traditionally a, a, what society would tell us is a good looking person. Mm-hmm. But they're really fucking good at something. Like, acting for me is always like, if somebody is like killing it, I'm like mm-hmm. You are the best looking person in the world.

Like, you're so, I didn't come in love with you. What is going on? I, and when my wife, when I saw my wife singing the first time, I was like, you were the most beautiful woman. I mean, she is the most beautiful woman. She's

Speaker 5: very beautiful.

Speaker 2: She's beautiful. But like, but it was the combination of saying, and then it's, it was, takes it to a tip.

It was like, I was like. I get to [00:12:00] be with you. What is happening? This is the best. Are we

Speaker: sure

Speaker 2: that you like me? Are we, do you wanna be with me? Like, is this allowed? You could opt out, see this and be like, what, what's going on here?

Speaker: That's how I feel about my wife. I, I think people thought I was being catfished for a long time because she's very, uh, she's an introvert, and so people would only see her photo, and I think people were like, oh.

Hun.

Speaker 2: Yeah. You are not

Speaker: talking to that person.

Speaker 2: It's not actually her.

Speaker: Or like, this is my girlfriend from Canada.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, she's

Speaker: real. Everyone, I can't prove it 'cause she doesn't come on camera, but

Speaker 2: we just, we talk, we don't, we don't ever video FaceTime, but we talk on the phone a lot.

Speaker: She has a man's voice, but

Speaker 2: it's weird.

Like, she doesn't sound like how you think she would sound. It sounds like a guy pretending to be his wife on camera.

Speaker: Speaking of acting and maybe some deception, maybe like, maybe not. [00:13:00] I just want you to listen. It can, before you

Speaker 2: play the video,

Speaker: what. What

Speaker 2: someone said, and because this is a perfect place to, to interject here, someone wrote that they like listening to our podcast because you just never know where it's going.

Like it's just, I don't remember the exact comment, but it was like, it'll, you'll be in the middle of a serious discussion and then over here, and then you'll go 20 feet to the left way and then you'll be discussing something entirely, has nothing to do with what you were just into. And then maybe 20 minutes later you'll get back to the discussion you were having.

But who knows? Who cares? She's like, I just, this is an A DH ADHD Fever Dream that is our podcast. And I do kind love that. It's so true.

Speaker: Every conversation and I have is like, because we'll say a story and then it'll remind, uh, the other one of a story which will remind the other one of a different story.

Mm-hmm. Oh

Speaker 2: God. It is something if we ever, we, I, I feel like the problem is at this point, if we ever decided to like really. [00:14:00] Strategize and organize a show. Then a lot of our, like most faithful listeners would be like, what the fuck is this? Why is there a structure? Why are, why are you like staying

Speaker: on

Speaker 2: theme?

Speaker: Were you on topic for this? Right? Ugh, disgusting. All right. Speaking of on topic, let's do get on it. So here is her story. I just want your thoughts about Okay. How you feel this, about this little tale. I'd love a, in a man's perspective, which is not something Isaiah all the time.

Speaker 6: So it's my husband's birthday today and got all my little decor decorations from Amazon and his dad calls, he has three tickets to go on a cruise to Mexico, leaving today, five day cruise, and they leave from Long Beach at two o'clock in the afternoon.

So he asks him does he want the tickets? We got four kids. I for one. Can I go? [00:15:00] I have a job and I got children. I'm thinking that he's going to tell his dad no because of said four children. No, he's scrambling around looking for his birth certificate so he can go on said five day cruise. I'm not saying anything, but let's just see how this goes.

I'm supposed to pick up the birthday cake at two o'clock as well.

Speaker 2: While I'm processing the whole situation, I would say it like stuff like this has happened, not a five day cruise, but like where, uh, like I'll, I'll get invited on a trip somewhere or I'll get like something that that'll, that'll come up, uh, for things.

And, uh, the first thing I do is, is think about like, how is this possible? How is this gonna affect the family? Right? Is this, what do we need to do to make sure this is the case? I never take, and this is one thing I've missed out on some amazing opportunities because of the fact that [00:16:00] it'll be like, Hey, uh, tonight can you go to the, can you, can we fly you out to like Washington dc Can we fly you out to this thing?

And I'll be like, I, that sounds amazing. I cannot, I can't, like, there's no white way I could do, even if it's like, just too close to something. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, I don't know if it's like, I, I feel like that's what you're supposed to do in a relationship, especially when you have young kids together, is you, before you make a decision, you have a conversation with your.

Partner about it and see if it is something, and there have been some times where, where my wife will be like, no, you fucking have to do this. Like, you're, you're gonna do this. I'm like, I don't know. And she'll make me do certain things, but like I, it ha that I think that's the exception when your partner's like, no, no, you have to do this.

How are you gonna turn that down? No, go for it, please. I'll figure it out. That's when it's, okay. That's my first initial response.

Speaker: That is a very good response. If you believe that that is what happened. [00:17:00] Most of the internet does not believe this unfolded the way that she was told this unfolded. Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2: So

Speaker: he is saying that his father. Had tickets, which, okay. If you know cruises like

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker: And it, it we're talking passports. I don't know.

Speaker 2: I don't know. Cruises, by the way.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker 2: I've never been on a cruise, never will plan on going on a cruise. Um,

Speaker: we're going out of the country, so. Mm-hmm. These things are like booked way in advance, like there are names Okay.

On tickets. You have to like, send stuff in, like it is Okay. A long process mm-hmm. To get that all figured out. There is by most people's accounts, no world in which, okay. The day of, you can just transfer, change the name of three tickets. Okay. So most people think that this is a trip that's been planned way in advanced.

Mm-hmm. And he knew [00:18:00] she might not say yes to it. So, so he's pretending so it's way worse. Yes. Well, there's actually a third level. Let's talk about that level. Okay. So let's say he's lying about the time of this because he goes like, he goes after this. He does it on the trip. Okay. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds real shitty.

Like if, I mean, I, I'm waiting for the other layer. I'm like, I don't know what, what is gonna catch me up? Like, I, I just, I don't know. I think, I think when you're in a relationship, and especially when you bring children into it

Speaker 4: mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: There, and also there are certain sacrifices you have to make. Like, I would let, like here, my wife just went on a six day trip, um, to, it was for her high school reunion, and then she visited one of her close friends, uh, in the area.

We planned that out like months in advance. Right. It was because it's a, it's a big, when you have kids that are relying on you. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't because, uh, she had to prepare anything for the trip. Right. You know, where our, our marriage and our [00:19:00] family is. Right. She prepared for her own trip and I took care of the rest of, of the house when she was gone.

Uh, the, uh, so the, but it was, but it's still just, that's what you do.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. In

Speaker 2: general, when you're planning something is, I think you just have to accept that. And sometimes that's not possible. Um, there's lots of cool stuff that comes up that you just can't do because it would be too much of a hindrance on the family.

Speaker: I agree. I also, I guess if you're wanting me to tell you the other layer mm-hmm. A majority of the internet thinks there's another woman that's going on this cruise with him.

Speaker 2: Ooh. Well, yeah. Yeah. Three tickets is, three tickets is also odd. Like who's the, who are the other two tickets for? Yeah. Like is there any, do we have any information about,

Speaker: no.

And then it's like, well, who are you going with?

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker: And then also, if you're going with three people, what happened to those people? Like all [00:20:00] of a sudden they can't go you the day of You figure it out.

Speaker 2: Yeah. That's,

Speaker: I don't buy any of it. I, I think, I don't know about cheating. I don't wanna say that, but I certainly know that when it comes to like trip planning, you can't just swap who the ticket is for.

No, you can't just Uhhuh. No, there's no way. And it's like, there's so many elements of this. She's talking about they have four kids at home. She's saying, I have a job. I can't just go. Mm-hmm. Is the implication that he doesn't have a job.

Speaker 2: I mean, it it does sound like that,

Speaker: right.

Speaker 2: So, yeah. So assuming he's like a, if he was like a stay-at-home father is, I mean also now she's also working full-time and now having to take over the responsibilities that he normally takes care of with no planning and no, uh, the warning

Speaker: of a five day cruise.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: And like, people are also thinking, okay, well maybe the dad is in on whatever lies this is. Mm-hmm. Because there was a call from the dad. Right. So is this something that he's planned? Like I just don't buy the [00:21:00] spur of the moment, five day cruise thing. Mm-hmm. Even if you wanted to have that happen, like even if you wanted to have that happen, one, the cruise is not gonna allow for that.

Like it's mm-hmm. They're always So you like, there you prep's so ahead of time. There's like so much paperwork, especially if it's out of the country. Mm-hmm. There's no way that you make that happen like in a couple hours. Mm-hmm. I just don't, I just don't buy that. And then on top of that, to do that to your partner?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker: I can't, who quickly has

Speaker 2: planned something. She, she bought a cake. She like, she a whole thing. She has an Amazon box

Speaker: full of mm-hmm. Party decorations like to leave. Your partner with your four kids mm-hmm.

Speaker 4: To

Speaker: go on a surprise five day cruise. I, I don't even like springing like a local event on my wife, like Right.

I, I wouldn't do that. Like if somebody wanted me to go out, but like, she's had a hard day or like mm-hmm. We've, or maybe, you know, something later in the week, like, I don't [00:22:00] like just out of nowhere saying, Hey, I'm gonna do this thing.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Let

Speaker: alone you're about, Hey, here,

Speaker 2: a literal example, I'm going to a thing tonight where my wife's gonna have to do bedtime with the kids alone.

Mm-hmm. And I asked her last week, I asked her three days ago, I asked her yesterday and this morning I already confirmed. I was like, I just wanna make sure, and it's not, I'm not asking permission. Right. Right. It's not like, the same way that she doesn't ask me permission to do things. I'm like, I'm just, I'm concerned.

I'm always like, I wanna make sure I, I need it to be clear that this thing I'm going to, I, I was like, I don't want to dox myself of where I'm gonna be at. Mm-hmm. For something that's gonna show, that's gonna come out four days after I'm at this thing. Anyways. I, uh, I, um, uh, I'm not like saying like, Hey, like, well, I'm gonna do this thing wherever.

It's just because I care about her. Mm-hmm. I care about her wellbeing. I'm like, I wanna make sure this isn't the most important thing in the world. If this is at all a hindrance to you, I don't need to go in part, often I'm looking for an excuse not to go [00:23:00] to be fair. Like, tell me, please tell me you need me not to go, and I am happy.

Mm-hmm. To just shut it down. Right. And so, but that's, that's kind. I, I, I don't think people to be to that extreme Right. But I do think just being in a, it's not when you are in a marriage. Mm-hmm. Right. Especially, like I said, when you bring kids into it, you do have to, you don't just get to worry about yourself anymore.

Right. Right. There are other aspects of things you have to keep in mind. You have to be considering all the logistics of what goes into your choices affect more than just you.

Speaker: Yeah. I just, I can't imagine if that was me. Mm-hmm. Getting ready for someone's birthday and them saying, oh, hey, uh, I just found out that there's a, a cruise for three people and he's not taking her.

I don't even know that she was invited.

Speaker 2: Right. Well, of course not. Yeah. She has to watch the kids.

Speaker: But again, that leads to the idea that like

Speaker 2: mm-hmm.

Speaker: Is there someone else? 'cause he, he knows she can't go if he goes.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: [00:24:00] And so, like, I just can't imagine prepping for this birthday, having ordered stuff and, and my partner being like, Hey, so I'm gonna go ahead and f off for five days.

Good luck.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: I don't know what's going on for you or how you're gonna accomplish that, but I'm literally going to be outta the country within hours.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Oh, what whatcha

Speaker 2: are saying, depending on, depending on how shitty he actually is, which it sounds like he's kinda shitty. It might be a vacation for her as well.

Speaker: Not with four kids. It's not.

Speaker 2: No, I'm, I'm, I'm joking. Well,

Speaker: I don't know. Maybe he doesn't help any,

Speaker 2: maybe it's like a fi, he's like a fifth kid, so it's like, um,

Speaker: I just was so saddened. Mm-hmm. When, when she was like, well, I can't go, I have a job and I have this, that, and the other thing. Right. It's like, wait, what, what is he doing?

What does he do during the day? Yeah.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. Because

Speaker: like, even if it was, he was a stay at home dad, his job would be the kids like, right,

Speaker 2: right.

Speaker: So that doesn't make sense either.

Speaker 2: Or I'm, or he does have a job, but clearly if he had planned it [00:25:00] out, he already asked for the time off. He already did. Right. You know, it's, it's possible that he already got everything approved.

Uh, but it's

Speaker: one or the other, right? Mm-hmm. Either he has no job or he had it pre-approved 'cause it's not mm-hmm. He's getting five days off the day of,

Speaker 2: which leads into the whole him knowing about it ahead of time and he is like, I can't, I know. It's also like, it, it's a cognizance that, you know, you're doing something shitty Yes.

To your partner. And so it's like, all right, how do I do this shitty thing where it looks like I'm the victim? I it, I didn't know he was gonna give me these and we can't just let these tickets go to, I'd be rude if I didn't go cheat on you for five days in Mexico.

Speaker: It put, it puts pressure on the person.

Like it makes them deny the request. It makes them be the bad guy. Right. She

Speaker 2: has to say no to to it, as opposed to Yeah.

Speaker: And it's a ticking clock too, where she doesn't really have time to think about it.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Like. And it's his birthday. Right? So like these are all things that I think if you were going to [00:26:00] lie about, it would be in your favor to say like, oh, it's my birthday.

Do you mind? Do you care? It is my birthday. And like mm-hmm. They're free cruise. Tickets. Tickets. How do we

Speaker 2: set all these things up? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: It sets 'em up for success. And like, there are so many times that I'll hear a story from someone, not, not involving cruises, but where guys will clearly have set the stage for something and I'm like, wait, wait a second.

How did that happen? Mm-hmm. Though that, I feel like that's not a coincidence because, you know, A, B and C had to be in place for this to ever happen. And to me is that, how do you get

Speaker 2: that good at lying, by the way? I'm a liar. Liar. Like some people are just, I am the one, one of the reasons my mom called me a Vulcan growing up was because I was undiagnosed autistic.

And the way I processed emotion was, was very Vulcan. I was, I was always very, I was like, that doesn't make any sense. That's not logical.

Speaker 3: That's not logical to me. Like even

Speaker 2: as like an 8-year-old, I was like, no, I think this is actually [00:27:00] what we should be doing. Uh, this makes sense. Yes. This, I don't think that's any, um, but also the fact that Vulcans are, they can't lie.

And it was always funny because if my tried lying, it was so, it's, to this day, my wife, it's, it's a running joke. I've talked about this, I think on the podcast before. Mm-hmm. Where even, like, if, if I'll lie about something that's beneficial

Speaker 4: mm-hmm. And that

Speaker 2: I'm a little better at that one, but if I try to lie about something, like I don't, I can't even think of it.

I don't lie about a lot because I'm so shitty at it that I know it's gonna be, I'm gonna get caught. But even it'll be something inconsequential. She'll be like, what did, what actually happened?

Um, yeah, I don't know. How do people get so good? Like, there, there has to be, 'cause some people are just naturally great liars.

Speaker: I, I think also though, like, how much do you care about hurting the other person and how much empathy do you have?

Speaker 5: Because

Speaker: I think it makes it lot easier if you do not care that you're lying if you don't care that you're [00:28:00] harming.

Like, my thing is, I don't like lying, I don't like being deceitful because I know the effect it has on somebody else.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: But like, if you don't care,

Speaker 2: that kind of goes back to what I said, it's, it's, it's easier to lie when it's for a good reason.

Speaker: Yeah. Right. Like, I'm hiding, I'm hiding

Speaker 2: a surprise gift or some Right.

Because of the fact that it's not Yeah, you're right.

Speaker: It's like, they're like, I don't, I don't care how you feel about this. I wanna get what I want, so I'm gonna do Right. I'm gonna lie now. I'm gonna put you in a time crunch. I, I hate the fact that there's like this mm-hmm. This, uh, really short timetable because like mm-hmm.

Had he asked. You know, a couple days before she would be like, well, let me think about it. No, I don't, I don't know if I can do that. Mm-hmm. It's like demanding a quick answer. Mm-hmm. And most people don't wanna be the a-hole, like, and good liars will set up situations in which you're, you kind of look bad if you don't let me do this.

Right. Like, or like

Speaker 2: mm-hmm. You're

Speaker: kind of the bad guy if you take this a certain, and he might, he might,

Speaker 2: he might technically be telling the truth. His dad did call him that morning and say, Hey, I have [00:29:00] these tickets. Mm-hmm. He's just leaving out the, he's omitting live omission that they'd already discussed his and planned it and he'd gotten his, uh, time off of work and updated his passport.

Speaker: There might be a lady going,

Speaker 2: there might be somebody else going and it mm-hmm. Because it's also, it's not like, oh, I have these three extra tickets. Are you telling me that three random people, whoever you're bringing

Speaker 4: right, uh,

Speaker 2: on this, are able to last second, get on a, a cruise to Mexico for five days.

Mm-hmm. With no previous warning. And that all three of you were able to do that. I don't know.

Speaker: Can I tell you one of the dumbest lies I ever heard? Please do. There was, um, uh, this was like a casual acquaintance and, um. There was a, uh, she was talking about her boyfriend at the time. Um, well, they, they weren't together when we were talking, but they had been together.

Mm-hmm. There was this [00:30:00] girl online, I don't know what, like a, some type of influencer, like a, like mm-hmm. Like more of a, a model of sorts. Mm-hmm. Probably in her lingerie, that type of scenario. Mm-hmm. That's what her photos were, and he was apparently a fan of this person. Mm-hmm. And would send money to this person because he was supporting her in a bad economy.

This is what he told her.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: I was like, first of all, that alone, red flag. Red flag, so, yeah. I'm like, okay, okay, girl, glad, glad I didn't know this person. Like glad I wasn't here for these stories because I would've been flagged. Mm-hmm. Just waving flags, uh, this whole time. But they were like out somewhere and they quote, unquote ran into mm-hmm.

This girl who just happened to be in town, and [00:31:00] like, he wanted to go up to her and talk with her. And I was like, I do not believe right. That this is the way that this went. Like, I don't mm-hmm. I don't know if the girl was involved in this. Mm-hmm. I don't know if this guy was stalking this girl's socials mm-hmm.

To find her somewhere, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But like, what are the odds that someone that doesn't live near you, that you don't know you would randomly out and about at a random place? Run into this person. Mm-hmm. It's not like a famous person. This is like mm-hmm. Oh, maybe, probably had a big following, but not a famous person.

I'm like, girl, I dunno how to tell you this, but I fear your ex may have been involved in something nefarious. Was the situation like,

Speaker 2: or he at least he wanted it. It might have been one way, it might've been him. Well,

Speaker: for sure, wanting

Speaker 2: to, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he

Speaker: might've, I mean, God, he could've [00:32:00] literally stalked her socials and known where she was at that time.

Mm-hmm. But like this, this person that you happen to be obsessed with, you're happening to run into. I do not buy that at all. And that's how he like, played it off. Like, oh, whoopsy, what are the cheeses? Should we go say hi?

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: She's like, no, you crazy person. Yeah. I don't, no, I don't even like that. You are helping.

I've her

Speaker 2: $10,000 so far. I think we should say hi.

Speaker: I mean, we're basically supporting her. Yeah. I, I was like, I've spend more on

Speaker 2: her than I do on our relationship.

Speaker: I mean, I don't know if this was a setup, encounter that he paid for. Mm-hmm. I don't know. Mm-hmm. I just know I don't buy it. I mean, she could have been innocent in that and probably was.

Mm-hmm. But this, like, she posts on her

Speaker 2: stories like going to this restaurant tonight. That's what I mean. Or what I mean Yes. That's

Speaker: what I think. Mm-hmm. Because I was like, it's just like, it's just not, I just don't what I, the It's astronomical the odds.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker 2: When you consider the other, like all the information.

Yeah. That's, uh, she didn't live

Speaker: there. [00:33:00] He was, yeah. He was obsessed with her. He was supporting her financially, allegedly because of the economy, not because of anything nefarious. Mm-hmm. You gotta help people out and in desperate times, like. The boldness with which certain men like to lie is insane.

Speaker 2: I wonder if part of it is also they're convincing themself that the lie is true.

Does that make sense? Like he's like, it's if, like, if you repeated enough to yourself, like I feel like some of the best liars do believe their own book. 'cause I know my father, who I believe based on, uh, I don't wanna po posthumously, you know, posthumously whatever you said the word. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, diagnose somebody with a, a disorder.

But I, I, I'm fairly positive my father was a narcissist, like a clinical narcissist based on the actual dis vibe standard for it. Mm-hmm. Um, and he, part of his thing was that he would create these stories. Mm-hmm. And I truly believe that he bought into them like in, in a weird way where he [00:34:00] was just like, no, no, no, that's, this is real because I said it's real.

And you repeat the INF times, you're like. I think this is a real, this actually happened to me.

Speaker: Well, it's interesting. I have a, um, one of my aunts is a psychologist, like a very mm-hmm. Like, it has a doctorate, is very, very well respected. How are we related? Um, no, but she's, she's amazing. But I don't remember how we got on the topic of narcissism.

I'm sure I was talking about some, some guy mm-hmm. On the internet or something, and she, she talks about that sometimes, like, narcissists basically, like their, their lies and everything becomes like this web. Mm-hmm. And it's like impossible for them because it, it's, it's like this, everything's a lie almost, you know?

Like mm-hmm. It's these, some of the lies. They know that they're lying. Some of the lies are the lies that they feel about themselves. Mm-hmm. They believe they're in the right when they do think. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? So it's like, it, it is a lie technically. Mm-hmm. But [00:35:00] is it a lie to them? You know, it's up for debate, but that there's so many lies interwoven together mm-hmm.

Throughout their time, because they're rarely being direct and truthful that like, they can't even pull them apart to identify like what the lie is, like mm-hmm. It's just, it's, it's a mess to them. It's like this gray area of, of all these different lies. So even if you could like, identify like, well, that was a lie.

It would be interconnected to so many different things, like mm-hmm. Well, maybe that wasn't a hundred percent truthful, but I needed this to happen because my, my truth is more important and what I need

Speaker 4: mm-hmm.

Speaker: Supersedes the truth in a way that like, they'll still think they're in the right and that they're still truthful.

Like, I, I'm not wrong for lying to you. Mm-hmm. I, I think I, I'm not an expert, but I certainly think a lot of these men know that they're lying. I certainly think. Um, they're aware that like, this did not happen or this is untrue, but I think they think their needs supersede that like, well, I need to [00:36:00] have this happen and I want this.

Mm-hmm. And so maybe I have to fudge the details a little bit, but like, I want this to happen and I deserve this. Mm-hmm. So I should have this. So who cares about the little details to get what I deserve? Like, I, I think it stems from that entitlement. Um. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: And I do think sometimes it's some, I think we overuse the term narcissism, uh, to encounter a lot of, a lot of, because, and because I think a lot of times we use it for someone that's just a fucking asshole, you know what I mean?

Like, it's just like you're self-centered. It's, you know, it, it's egotistical, um, which can be related.

Speaker: Well, recognizing that Nars someone is mm-hmm. Can be narcissistic. Mm-hmm. Like almost every abusive person, if not every abusive person, has narcissistic traits because it takes a level of, even, even if you're not a diagnosed narcissist, it takes a level of narcissism to treat people that way.

Right? Mm-hmm. To have that little empathy for people you, you are telling that you [00:37:00] love. Mm-hmm. So I think a lot of people are narcissistic. Have narcissistic traits without being full blown narcissists. Mm-hmm. And certainly this guy is showing a very low level of empathy, at the very least for his wife.

Right, right. And, uh, yeah, I used to get caught up much to your point about things. Mm-hmm. Like. You know, that's a lie, right? Like, you have to know that that's not true. You have to, that's a detail. Mm-hmm. It happened or it didn't and it didn't. Mm-hmm. But you keep saying it did. So somewhere in your heart.

Mm-hmm. Like, you know, that that's, and my, uh, my aunt was like. They're so wrapped up in their own bullshit a lot of the times. Mm-hmm. That like, they c they will, they can't address the singular thing and they'll mm-hmm. It, it's like it's, it's too, it's too woven into their mm-hmm. Identity and this world that they've built to be able to pull it out and say, well, no, that was a lie.

Like, well, yeah. But, yeah. But I

Speaker 2: think people don't realize it's a lie because I think people think there's only, oh, that doesn't happen to me either. It [00:38:00] happens to all of us. Everybody does this where you retell a story enough times, like, especially like family lore. Sure. That's a good one. Or impressions after you told it, or, yeah, yeah.

Something. But like, but like, you have these stories that you, after you've told them a hundred times over 20 years. It might be vaguely the same story. Mm-hmm. But if you listen, if you had a recording of how it was sold 20 years previously, guarantee you 90% of the details have changed. The wording has changed.

The where you were made have change. Mm-hmm. Like there's all these little things that change about it and you don't even realize it 'cause it's very slow. Right. And that's, that's the idea. Like, you tell a lie enough times, it becomes reality. I do it. One of my, the, the weirdest thing is 'cause I, I I, I teach through story.

Mm-hmm. Uh, my lectures, a lot of my lectures are very much Right. I'll create a story or, or real story that happened to me, but I figure out ways to weave in theory and, and the mm-hmm. The stuff we're talking about in class, into the story so that students will remember the story even if they don't realize they're learning [00:39:00] concepts from my class.

Right. Um, and it, there's a whole method behind that. Uh, but, uh, but there, since they're real stories I'm using, there have definitely been details where I'll change because I'm like, well, I'm trying to get them to understand. Mm-hmm. The way the communication functions in this, I'm trying to, people give people to understand X, Y, and Z.

And so I'll change that little thing. And then, you know, I've been teaching for 20 years and literally 20 years back to my example, there are some stories in my lectures. I was thinking about this just recently, uh, 'cause I'm revising my, my, uh, my videos from my classes. Uh, and I was like, I don't remember what was real in this story.

Like, there, it, it's, my memory is so like, yeah, and I already have a bad memory, but you know, you repeat it enough times. So I'm like, I have a vivid memory. What this story is as I tell it in my class. Mm-hmm. But that's just how, you know, our brains are, are amazing at doing that. And so anyways, that's a very specific example, but I think we all do that with, with inconsequential things that don't harm other people.

Speaker: I, I feel like that's a good point though, [00:40:00] because mm-hmm. I think taking that idea, so you're ta you talked about how you're telling a story and then the details shift a little bit because maybe you're trying to teach a different theme or concept, whatever. Mm-hmm. I feel like PE liars people who are lying or manipul people liar.

Liar faces. Yeah. Liar, liar. Pants on. Liars do that all the time. And what they're altering is, well, I want this thing. Mm. Like I need to change this story a little bit because I wanna go on a trip. Like if they really got down to it, I think. 99% of people would have to admit to themselves, they lied about it, right?

Mm-hmm. But I think they frame it in that way, in their own minds a lot of times. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, you, we talked about this in the pre-show.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Uh, the Patreon pre-show, which is that like bad people, like evil villains don't see themselves as evil villains, right? Mm-hmm. They feel justified. And I think a lot of times you have to feel justified in some way.

Even if it's that [00:41:00] like, I should get what I want and I don't care what other people think, or I don't care who I hurt, you have to somehow feel justified to do these things to people repeatedly. Mm-hmm. Like if you are consistently a liar, for example. And so like, I think they justify themselves in a similar way to what you're saying, but in a nefarious version, which is like, mm-hmm.

Okay. I have this story, but I want you to think, think good things of me feel pressured and let me go. I think you, I think you bring up an excellent point, which is like, there are so many people who have just enough facts

Speaker 4: mm-hmm.

Speaker: To fudge things, or even just their mm-hmm. Maybe their perceptive, their perception of themselves is different.

Like, I've noticed mm-hmm. That a lot with people where like, I'll catch people doing what I think is lying. You know, like, that's not totally honest, but it's like, well, that's how they wanted to see themselves in that story. Mm-hmm. Which is really interesting. It's like you see it online a lot where they'll tell a story and you're like.

Do you know that you're the bad guy in that story? Like Right. You're, that's, that's not coming [00:42:00] off well for you.

Speaker 2: This is the exact same thing where I, I think this is why, uh, red Pill and Manosphere podcasts are so popular mm-hmm. Is because they also give pseudo scientific, uh, men weaponized mental health talk.

Mm-hmm. Uh, therapy speak. Mm-hmm. Um, and they give them the weapons to justify why what they're doing is not bad. Right. And if you can justify that to yourself, then you can justify making that lie. You can justify, even if you're not an evil person, you're like, well, the podcast guy, there's one the other day I have it saved somewhere, um, where he was like, he was like, I, people, I say this and people don't realize I'm trying to save marriages.

Like if you had a 50 year marriage and you own and you cheated twice, you did a pretty good job at staying monogamous.

Speaker: It's only, only two times.

Speaker 2: Wow. It's like, okay, wow. You, you did a really, you, you were, I mean, percentage wise, how many days were did you not [00:43:00] cheat? Right. That's like 0.0, zero one days you cheated. Right. That's, that's, that's not

Speaker: like, let's go off of the average here. Right. Come on. And I was

Speaker 2: watching this and the people listening is like, Hmm,

Speaker: ooh, yes.

That's

Speaker 2: a great, and so the people, and then the people obviously there are hearing that are like, oh man, okay. Well I only, I did only cheat once. I'm, I, I'm a pretty good monogamist. I mean, really at this point, it would be, it would be mean for me to let her know that I cheated on her. Because like, we're, we've, that was 10 years ago.

Speaker: We've moved on That one kills me too. That, that, that like mm-hmm. Lights a fire under me. 'cause that's so often what people will say mm-hmm. Is like mm-hmm. They'll do something terrible, not just cheating. It could be, it could be a number of things.

Speaker 5: Right, right,

Speaker: right. And they're like, well, it already happened.

Mm-hmm. You know, the only thing that's gonna happen from this is she's gonna get hurt.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. If I tell her, really I'm protecting her.

Speaker: Yeah. It's already done and I'm [00:44:00] not gonna keep doing whatever the thing was. It was a one time thing maybe. So what's the point? And it's like, you don't have the right to hold the truth from them.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's the point. You don't have the right to withhold information like that, especially when they know it's information that would change their relationship. That's why they don't wanna say. Mm-hmm. And it's like, that's not fair. That's not your Right. If you have an agreement with someone for whatever it is, whatever, like whether it's not cheating or not doing a certain thing.

Mm-hmm. Um, not betraying them in some way, you know, it could be they took money, whatever. If you break that. You have to tell that person, like, sorry. Mm-hmm. That's the deal. That's the arrangement. That's the agreement. Like you don't have the right to just be like, Hmm. But they might get upset, so. Right.

Speaker 2: Well, somebody, somebody wrote in a comment section about, once again, another video. Oh, God. Uh, I don't remember what the video was, but they, they were like, uh, and now, [00:45:00] oh, I think it was the same video. I think this is where I'm, this is why it's in my head. Uh, but they were like, and nowadays, like, I mean, what even is, like, people will consider anything cheating.

Uh, like it could be all sorts of things could be cheating. And I was like, here, here's the thing that, that what they're referring to is like, there'll be people that would be like, well, my husband watched pornography. Mm-hmm. So he was cheating on me. Mm-hmm. Or my husband did, or my wife did. She flirted with another guy.

So that was cheating on me. Like, it'll be. The, the issue is not the action. The issue is you need to have communication with your partner.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. And

Speaker 2: establish what is, you need to, uh, have understand what that is. Like if my wife watched, if I walked in my wife watching porn, I wouldn't be like, it's over.

We're done. Right. That wouldn't, like, I wouldn't consider that to be her having an affair with the, but like if we had established that pornography is a no go right. In our relationship, like, I don't, I think that's not. I, I like, from my perspective, that's not a big deal. Mm. But some people it is. Mm-hmm.

And if, and if you're with [00:46:00] somebody, uh, theoretically, especially if it's a long-term relationship, you have to have mutual understanding of what those things are before you even get in a relationship. Like there, there's a video. I'm responding. I'm, I'm gonna release it later this week, um, about this guy that says, if you don't unfollow all of your exes on social media, which I, I'm talking about the, I'm, I go over how it's clearly a control mechanism to, uh, go over all those things in the video.

But, uh, in his perspective, if you don't unfollow all your exes, uh, then you're clearly the relationship is, is over. That's not a serious relationship, which I think is such bullshit. It's a lot I like because I have a long, a lot to say about, uh, that topic that goes in there. But the, the, at the end of the day though, as much as I think that's complete nutter bullshit, if you both.

Going into your relationship mutually agree that that is something you both value. 'cause there it's, this is not a gendered thing. I know women that feel the same way and that which probably share the same opinion. [00:47:00] Mm-hmm. You need to establish that though, through communication and that that's what people don't get.

It's like, well, I I don't think that's bad. Yeah. Fucking talk about it then. Don't just spring it on 'em and be like, you didn't, you didn't unfollow that person you dated five years ago that you actually had a really good breakup with. And they, they, it just didn't work out romantically, but they were a good person that you mm-hmm.

Still wanted. Well, fuck it. It's over. Right. And so it's like, you never talked about that though. We never had that conversation. But people don't talk about these things. You,

Speaker: you are a hundred percent. Right. Like, that is such a good point because that's the thing to me is the communication element.

Because guys will say stuff like that, I mean, women will non-binary every mm-hmm. Gender can do this. But like I see it a lot. Like with manosphere content, which is like mm-hmm. This idea of, well, I don't, I don't see a problem with it. What's the big deal? And it comes down to number one, do you know that she has a [00:48:00] problem with it?

Mm-hmm. Have you talked about it? And if you have this strong belief, which often they'll come out like with these really strong beliefs, like, I should be able to sleep with whoever I want, but she has to stay monogamous. Whatever bullshit they're saying. It's like, did you say that to her at the start? And they almost never do.

Mm-hmm. Like they'll have these huge ideas that's like, okay, then be honest when you get with her, if you expect her to be a, you know, trad wife at home and you expect her to not have male friends. Okay, I have problems with that, but that's a different conversation. Mm-hmm. Did you tell her that when you got with her.

No, you usually don't. Mm-hmm. If you wanna be that way, fine. Be upfront. If you're controlling, be upfront. If you think that this is all justified, which they always say

Speaker 5: mm-hmm. That,

Speaker: that this, there's nothing wrong with the way that they act. Then tell her when you're dating her so she knows what she's getting into.

If it's not, it's manipulation.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And I say this in the video that I, I'm releasing too, but it's, it's, it's rarely one thing.

Speaker: Right? Of course,

Speaker 2: right. Ev we all [00:49:00] have one fucking weird thing for whatever reason. It could be trauma, it could be, sure. We are just weird. It could be like someone told us something once and it really landed hard, whatever.

But if it was like one, even, even the example from the video of like, you're following your ex. Sure. If that's it. But you're also like this loving, caring person. Mm-hmm. You, you don't try to control anything else about like, it, it's just that one weird hangup you have. Mm-hmm. You can work through that. I'm not saying it's, it's okay.

I'm saying I think you can, you can still get through that, but it's usually also the people saying, you gotta unfollow. It's like, well also you gotta change how you're dressed now that you're with me. Mm-hmm. You also can't hang out with your friends anymore 'cause you're with me. Mm-hmm. You can't have X, Y, and Z because you're with me.

You also have, you can't post on social media anymore, you're with me. Mm-hmm. It's all of the, it's a, it's usually a web of things that are meant to cage that you into, into their property. Mm-hmm. Right. It's almost never just the one thing. And I think people get so caught up mm-hmm. When you critique it's happened to both of us, I'm sure.

We'll, we critique something going on. Mm-hmm. And they're like, well, I [00:50:00] mean, I could see a reason. Yeah. There's always an exception. Right. To every rule where one weird or even controlling, I, I wouldn't go so far as saying abusive things, but like Sure. Where it's like on the verge where it's in that weird mm-hmm.

Like the nebulous thing. You can have a weird thing. Mm-hmm. Uh, we, we, we don't see the whole relationship. What we're pointing at are things to be aware of. I had someone message the other day. It was like such a beautiful message where she, uh, she said, Hey, I've never, I've been following you for three years.

Uh, I, I, I didn't, I've never messaged you before, but I just wanna let you know, three years ago I saw one of your videos. I started watching your videos and I started noticing that the things you were talking about was exactly the relationship I was in. And it, it was, it, it, I I just assumed that that was what relationships were.

Mm-hmm. We broke up. I'm with someone who loves me now. We're in a great relationship now. And it, but it was, it's stuff like, it, it's the, the, it's because if nobody's talking about it, then you are able to kind of gaslight yourself in addition to them probably gaslighting you and telling [00:51:00] you mm-hmm. That you're overreacting and this is normal and this is not, you're, you're, you're blowing this out of proportion.

Um, you do it to yourself 'cause you don't wanna be. The bad person. You don't wanna be the, the, you wanna be the cool girl, right? Or the cool guy, right? Mm-hmm. You wanna be, oh, I'm, I'm chill with those sort of things. Yeah. I know this feels weird, but No, no, it's, it's fine. It's fine. 'cause I love you.

Speaker: I think too, like.

Looking for the signs that that person knew. How knows how you feel. Mm-hmm. Like, they often will hide things. Right. They will be dishonest. They will wait until later, like

Speaker 5: mm-hmm.

Speaker: Like, they'll do the bait and switch. Like, to your point, the control behaviors don't start immediately. Like when you're dating, they're not controlling you like that.

It's, they're small

Speaker 2: and they slowly be crow into this thing. Yeah. It's

Speaker: the, uh mm-hmm. The frog in the pot of water kind of situation. Mm-hmm. Um, I think it's important to recognize, like, clearly he knows that that shit would be terrible for you. Like, you have to think logically. [00:52:00] Like in this case, like, do you think he knows that leaving you for five days completely on a whim would really be harmful to you?

Does he know how it would affect your schedule? Does he know how much extra work that would be for you? Mm-hmm. Like, let's, even if he's not lying, which like, I think he's lying. Yeah. But even if he wasn't, it's like. They're, they'll show you that they know that you won't like it. Mm-hmm. Even if they think they're right, they'll, mm-hmm.

They'll be deceptive. They'll hide it from you. You know, they'll hide stuff on their phone because they know you do not like that. Mm-hmm. So if they know you don't like it and they do it anyways, that is intent. That is deception. Right. That is malicious. Mm-hmm. So really recognizing like, no, they get, 'cause I think there are so many times that guys online in particular.

And then guys who consume that media will be like, whoa, you know, like, I didn't know this was bad. Like, I don't see why this is a problem. And yet they'll [00:53:00] show you behaviors that show like hiding, like people who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. Mm-hmm. And I think that's important to recognize because I would believe stuff too.

Like, oh, well I guess it's just his birthday. And like, you know, I don't wanna be the one to not let him have this amazing experience. I can pick up the slack. Mm-hmm. Just take a pause and be like, does he know how much this, how much weight this is on you? Does he know how this affects you? Does he showcase that he's aware of what he's doing and that you would have a problem with it?

Like mm-hmm. Like, stuff are, are they being flirtatious in ways that they know you don't like? Like they'll hide that. They know that it bothers you. They know that it has a negative impact on you, and they do it anyways. And I think that's what's important is like recognizing, oh no, this is on purpose.

This is with intent and this shows that they do not care how I feel about something. Mm-hmm. That's important. Like even if, even if they don't agree with it, it really doesn't matter if you care about it. Mm-hmm. And they still [00:54:00] do it anyways. That's what matters. And then you really need to reflect, like, are you compatible at that point?

Mm-hmm. Because some people just have things that are personal to them that maybe, maybe they will find someone that's cool with it. Like, but if somebody does not respect, like whatever, whether it's a boundary that you have, whether it's mm-hmm. You have trauma, like whatever's going on. If someone does not respect the ways that you wanna show up and be supported in a relationship, then you shouldn't be in a relationship with them.

Mm-hmm. Like, you deserve better and like they shouldn't be with you either.

Speaker 2: Well, it's kinda like with, uh. The, it's the ability to have these kind of secrets, uh, is all you can like see eventually when you look back, you can usually see all the signs

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 2: That they were hiding stuff to like, like in I I, I look at my own relationship where, you know, I'm, I think I'm probably logged into my email on my wife's computer right now.

Right? Like there's, there's no, she knows all my passwords. She knows, is she looking through my files? Is she looking through my stuff? No, [00:55:00] because we have trust. Right? Right. There's not, there's not like this, there's no need to do it. Right. But also, I don't care that she has access because there's nothing there to find.

Speaker 4: Right. Right.

Speaker 2: I wouldn't be hiding correspondence about a trip, about finding my passport, about all these kind of things that like there's no reason to, for me to, to, to have those things. And also. It might, I, I will, I will give the caveat that it's easier for me to do that because I'm a bad liar. Like in the sense that like, I think there's no point.

Like it would, it would come out eventually. Like there's no point in me having a web of, uh, of lies. But, um, I, I think there is a level of like where afterwards you can see, oh yeah, he was really. Secret. He wouldn't let me see that. He wouldn't like, it's like whole, like location sharing. I, we talked about that a a few weeks, a podcast ago where the whole, like, my wife can always see where I am.

For us it's an eem, like if there was an emergency, right? If there was an earthquake, we, if our kids needed us or something like that. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it's, sometimes we know our kids [00:56:00] also like to watch us driving home when we're coming from somewhere. Yeah. And so it's like, but it's all like, if I was hiding something.

Even though it's, she probably looks at, at it once every three months, but, right. The, the fact is like if I, if I was hiding something, I probably wouldn't want her to have that. Yeah. Right. If I was visiting someone, if I was going on dates, if I was doing something behind the scenes, I probably would've find, would find a way to turn that off without her knowing or, or you know, doing all sorts of like little kind of secretive things that afterward you'd be like, oh yeah, he did turn off his tracking.

He did change his password to that account. He did start doing X, Y, and Z. But, um, you only do those things if you don't ever really have trust in your, in your relationship. Not saying you have to, like, some people have accounts like that, like my, my business account. I don't think my wife knows the password to my business account 'cause it's a random jumble of letters that I don't even know.

But like, she could get access to it by going on my computer if she wanted to. Anyhow,

Speaker: I think it's like reminding people that [00:57:00] someone. Not caring how you feel about something is a problem. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like even on the smaller scale of things, because I feel like these little things happen and then something huge happens and then you recognize, oh yeah, there were these little things that happened that made me feel bad or made me question things like mm-hmm.

If someone is consistently not caring about how you feel about things. Even if they say it's not important, like that's a problem. And that's enough to have a conversation and like, you should be respected. And on the other side of things, like for these guys who like wanna say, I should be able to do what I want and like, I should be able to look at, you know, everybody's photos and like photos and flirt with girls online.

Like, what's the problem? Mm-hmm. I'm the man. It's like, okay, well then find somebody who's down for that. Mm-hmm. If you think that's all good, cool. Great. Mm-hmm. Don't agree, but, okay.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Why do you consistently pair with women that you're betraying? Like, why can't you find someone who's also like that?

Who also agrees with that? It's like, because [00:58:00] it's, it's, it's about, it's about lack of respect. It's about lack of empathy. It's about dominance. So much of it is, mm-hmm. I wanna have power over you. Like, I'll say this very quickly. I know we're towards the end and I'm bringing up new shit, but have you seen all those videos of the guys on the platforms at the clubs?

Speaker 2: No,

Speaker: you haven't seen this. No. You know, like the platforms, like the stages.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: So back in the day, back in our day when you'd go like, you know, usually people who were dancing, predominantly women, right. But people who were dancing mm-hmm. Would be on those having a good time.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: There is a new club culture going on.

Were like, men, men dominate all of the stages. They are not dancing. They're maybe like nodding their heads and drinking and just like taking up that space and, okay. There's a lot of people who are like, oh, they wanna be women so bad. Like they, they wanna have the privileges of being a woman. Like, you know, like, but to me it's like, I feel we're getting to a place of like [00:59:00] this dominance thing where it's like, yeah, you know, you don't get that.

You,

Speaker 4: you

Speaker: women don't get the stage anymore. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm gonna stand here not even to dance, which is normally what it was for, was to like elev, like as a stage to elevate yourself. Mm-hmm. To like have a good time. That's why people did it. Mm-hmm. Um, and a lot of women, I know I used to dance on those because I don't wanna be touched.

And it was a good way to like, put myself out of being touched so much. Mm-hmm. But like, you have all these men just like staring down at women. Like literally you don't, you'll have like 20 guys like bros. Yeah.

Speaker 2: They're treating it like it's a me literal meat market where they're like, just like looking for the next prey.

Yeah. But

Speaker: it, to me it feels like my, my perception of that is like a dominance issue where it's like mm-hmm. I'm gonna take that you, you know, and actually why should you get to do it? Mm-hmm. Why should you get the stage? I'm gonna take it. I don't actually want it. 'cause I'm not dancing. I'm clearly not using it for its purpose, but I, this is mine and that's what I wanna do.

Mm-hmm. And the, the, you know, you hear like the cruelty is the point, but it's like the dominance is the point. The taking is the [01:00:00] point. This is mine is the point. And I think that's true for a lot of these men in their relationships where it's like, no, I just want you to feel small. Mm-hmm. I just wanna show you, I get everything and you don't.

Mm-hmm. And I get to, you know, I get to go on this trip and last minute, which is something you could never in a million years do. Which actually is the reason it's possible because I know you can't.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: He, he knew that she couldn't go with him. Mm-hmm. Otherwise, he, he wouldn't have done it. He couldn't have accomplished it.

He already knows that there's responsibilities on her to take care of these four kids while still doing that full job and what are you gonna do about it?

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker: And I think that's a lot of their attitudes and like, I feel like so much of what they do is for the sake of that, because men could pair with women.

Heterosexual men compare with, with, or like men who, like women pair with women who like men. Mm-hmm. I'm trying to be careful here. Yeah. Who both agree like, Hey, we can flirt with other people. Mm-hmm. Or like, we can like other [01:01:00] people's photos or we can do this. Or if it's the controlled side of it, we can both not talk to our exes and we can both not have social media.

We can both do that. But they don't, they don't do that. No. They wanna pair with someone that they control and they get to do what they want

Speaker 2: and they can shape them into this thing that they want as opposed to pairing with the whole person that they actually, 'cause it's not the person that they are trying to be with.

It's, it's the

Speaker: dominance.

Speaker 2: It's the dominance, it's the, we need to control them and turn them into something for me to dominate.

Speaker: Yeah. I, I totally agree. I think that's. And I think my goal is that, and I think clearly your goal because all we do is talk about these things online, right? Is to recognize these smaller scale things.

Mm-hmm. I mean, the Cruz is is egregious, certainly.

Speaker 5: Right? Right.

Speaker: But I'm sure that's not the first time he's put her on the back burner. He's done something for himself. He's not looked at the impact of his actions. God, I hope he is not cheating. That's the general consensus. Mm-hmm. If we gonna see these smaller things and any gender can start to [01:02:00] say, mm-hmm you know what, this made me feel bad the way that you treated me, and like mm-hmm.

Regardless of what you're trying to say to me, or like what society says, the impact on me is negative, and that's enough for me to voice my dis disappointment or voice my discomfort. Right. Or at least say like, I don't agree with the way that you're treating me, because if we mm-hmm. Could deal if we felt empowered to deal with things on the smaller scale

Speaker 4: mm-hmm.

My

Speaker: hope would be we wouldn't get to the point that like, our partners are going on five day cruises last minute. Right. And with kids, and to your point

Speaker 2: too, I, I think about it being kind of this genderless, amorphous idea though, uh, I think. One of the, the underlying issue is that so many guys, especially that see probably your, I'm sure your content too, they see my content that will comment and stuff.

They don't understand when I say this is harming men. Yeah. Like you deserve to be in a relationship with someone who wants the same things that you do. Agree. Right. You deserve to be with someone that, that has the same beliefs about the world as you, even if they're shitty beliefs. Right. Find someone that has [01:03:00] equally shitty beliefs and stay shitty your shitty relationship with each other.

Right. But, but it's still that you deserve that. You quote unquote do deserve that. Yeah. Um, but it's, it's the idea that you can find somebody. Who likes that about you? Who you can find somebody who actually thinks that's a cool thing that you're into crypto. Right? That there are people there that exist out there.

There's crypto broth. Yeah. You can't just, yeah, you can't just like, but when you girl Brooks, you try to force it into somebody. Yeah. Like you try to, um, kind of take this person that you like physically and trying to mold who they are personality wise into that thing you've decided you want, that's you're not, it's not gonna end well.

Yeah. You're not gonna be happy. She's not gonna be happy and you're just gonna be in this, even if you stay together, it's gonna be this miserable, long-term relationship, but it, and it's probably not gonna get to that point. You're probably gonna end up single again looking for the next victim mm-hmm.

Too, that you try to manipulate into being this other person that they're not.

Speaker: Yeah. I think understanding what it's about it, because [01:04:00] usually it isn't even about the preference that you're talking about. Mm-hmm. Usually it is about I wanna dominate, I wanna control, I wanna have power. And the reason that it comes up with men a lot when we tell these stories and why we see so many videos about it mm-hmm.

Uh, is because one, the patriarchy and how that shows, you know, dominance within the patriarchy, men dominate women or try to

Speaker 4: mm-hmm.

Speaker: But also like, that's, men like to push that narrative. Mm-hmm. Like, men love to talk about that online, like, doing those behaviors. Like, um, I saw, just saw a video where this guy like was trying to force this girl to buy him a drink.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Because basically he had, there had, you could tell it was like a dating bro situation, right. Where that was what he was told to do. Right. Like, you have the power if you get, you know, anyways, it's just, we see how this, these, these ideas like how they manifest in the real world. Is is a frightening thing.

And like starting to [01:05:00] recognize why is this happening actually? Because it isn't just preference. It isn't just like, oh, it's just this, this crazy thing that happened. No, there's a pattern here. There's a belief system, there's a problem. Right. That's

Speaker 3: it.

Speaker 2: All right, I'm with you. That was a good episode.

Speaker: There we go.

Well, thank you everyone for listening. We hope none of your partners are jumping on cruises.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Unplanned. Let us know the comments, your thoughts on the story because the internet was really heated about it. And uh, other than that, make sure to check out our socials, check out the Patreon. Really do check out the show where Jessica uses the video that's, uh, staged.

'cause it is very funny. Um, and then any other than that, Jessica, do we have any, anything else?

Speaker 2: I think we're good to go.

Speaker: All right friends. Bye. Bye.

Speaker 2: Love you.

Speaker: Love you.