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[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, everybody.

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[SPEAKER_01]: J.J. Cooper, John manual.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I often will say a special edition of the baseball America podcast, but this is truly a special edition for those newbies.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This may be like, okay, but for you old heads, for you who have been there since the beginning, because we began doing podcast

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we're October 2006.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, six.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, six.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we were both there for the first one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't allowed to touch the mic for a while, but I was there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was the producer.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That was my first up, I guess.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then if you remember, basically we started doing playoff podcast because we both would be the first two in the office in the morning and then we would we get in the office and we would talk about the playoffs and eventually we're like why don't we just record this so we are bringing that back together we have a special world series preview and

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna talk all about what we see happening, what we think's gonna happen for the world series.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna talk about the Dodgers, we're gonna talk about the Blue Jays, we're gonna talk about not probably as much how the Dodgers can win, I think that that's, okay, I'll summarize that right now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How the Dodgers can win, keep pitching like they've been pitching, have enough home runs, done, moving up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But we're gonna talk about the Blue Jays and detail on that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But we're gonna talk a lot about that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What did like for the postseason so far for you?

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[SPEAKER_01]: What has stood out before we get to the world series?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would say the first of all the game quality.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We've had a lot of tight games.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't all been cleanest games, but they've been a lot of very competitive games.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The American League, I think we knew even coming into the year that the American League was kind of wide open.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It played out that way, especially once the Tigers kind of hit a speed bump and weren't the same team that kind of opened up the American League.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think that the game seven, I'm not was a thriller, that was a real, that was at all time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to remember that game for a while, I think, and I guess the other thing that has stood out is, you know, it's unavoidable.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think to talk about, we do have two teams that are top five in payroll, obviously, the Dodgers are one, too, pretty much every year, you know, for a while, it was Dodgers and Yankees and now it's Dodgers and Mets, just about every year, but Toronto spins.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Toronto is being rewarded for trying and and that's a good thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know shade to the Arizona Texas world series of 2023.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That was fun.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's also good to know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But there's randomness, and that means that teams that don't spend at this level can win, of course, Texas spends a lot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that was a Corey Seeger led the market for me on a team.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the thing I was about to say is like, what is a $475 million middle infield.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like they don't spend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then they went out and spent on DeGron the next year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But these are two top five payrolls.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's impossible to ignore.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But what that does is advise you some cushion.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And also that starting pitching is expensive, and you mentioned the Dodgers, and you know, you and I are of a certain age and of a certain geography in the American southeast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we both watched a lot of Braves games growing up, and we knew the difference between a Rick camp lab rotation, and a Greg Maddox lab rotation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've figured out the difference, oh wow, it looks a little different with Avery and Smolt at the front, and that kind of power of the Braves had when they started their run, but this Dodger rotation

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[SPEAKER_00]: is an ethic rotation, and that costs money, but it also takes really good scouting and development, JJ, and I think we need to give the Dodgers both the credit for the valuation, and also the credit for developing it and getting these guys, being able to not cruise, but not floor it during the regular season, still when 93 games, which is hard to do, and have all these starters,

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[SPEAKER_00]: just from a valuation standpoint of what we've been doing you know, the last eight years for me for the twins and 21 before that would be eight.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's impressive just to see what kind of stuff the doctors are running out there night and night out on the bone.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That kind of leads to our first topic here, which is like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: We could talk about, yes, I mean, it is not exactly a insightful deep analysis to say, this Dodgers rotation is really good, but to take it a step further, it does strike me as that this is,

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[SPEAKER_01]: a perfectly built rotation for the playoffs.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, not for the regular season.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If you're saying, you're a team that is trying to, you know, that is projected to win 87 games and you could win 90 or you could win 84.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Having a rotation front, you know, that includes Blake's now Tyler Glasno and Joey Otani coming off of TJ would not be what you want.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because we are talking about that Yoshinobu Yamamoto is the only picture of these.

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[SPEAKER_01]: for in the postseason rotation who threw a hundred innings this year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is not Blake's now has qualified for the ERA title twice in his 10 year career.

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[SPEAKER_01]: One side downwards both times, but twice, how to glass now is still waiting for that first time that he qualifies for an ERA title.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But if you said, who do you want in the postseason?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Durability becomes much less of a factor, I would say, over the course of a month, than pure bat missing stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you said, who are the best pictures in baseball, best starters in baseball for dominance, pure bat missing stuff?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Blake's now, Tyler Glass, now, and show you, Tony.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All are near the very top of the list on that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is this kind of a perfect playoff rotation in a one ways?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he didn't even mention the highest paid, the largest free agent contract for it in history for a picture.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Ocean Hoku Yamamoto.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's amazing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you and I when he, what's coming over, you are so excited about him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I just remember watching his delivery and say, man, that is extremely efficient.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It really has delivery reminded me of Tim Lensickum, what with his size.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then just the efficiency and the kind of a torquey produces in his body.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's small, and then, again, Rob Friedman, pitching ninja, there's a great job with this, but Kudos DeHemi's kind of shown with the overlay, the evolution of that delivery, it's just, there's no wasted movement.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so you have these, you know, Snell, whose biggest, besides not qualifying for the ERA title, his inefficiency, like when he threw the no-hitter for the Giants, and it was his first career complete game, and he, you know, kind of gave it to people afterwards, criticized him,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Besides from that, aside from that, no hitter, I mean, his most famous movement, and maybe still with the no hitters, most famous movement is, all right, I pitched five innings plus or six innings plus in the world series and they took me out third time through with the raise in 2020.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, his the most famous moment of his career came against the Dodgers and for what he couldn't do, which was be trusted, even with his best stuff to go a third time through the order.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to debate that five out one hit in the

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that's what it was.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was very much by the numbers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was 2020.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Everything was off that year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Everything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We all know that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, back to the Dodgers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is kind of a perfect rotation for the postseason because of the power.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You might quibble.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, they could use a left hander.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess you could say that a perfect rotation for the postseason is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: co-facts three times in seven days or whatever it did and you know game seven was on two days rest in 1965.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's perfect rotation right or you could argue I had some brought this up on another pod this week that like you could also say the 63 Dodgers were co-facts goes twice drive to those ones and

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[SPEAKER_01]: Johnny Padre's Johnny Padre's goes once and Johnny Padre's is the he's the weakling because he went eight and a third in his outing, which did mean that rom pair now ski got to throw two, two thirds of an inning, which is the entire contribution.

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[SPEAKER_01]: of the bullpen because they held the Yankees with Mantle, Maris, Barra, all of them, to four runs in four games.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And co-fax got two complete games.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Dry still got one, and again, like I said, Johnny Potter's only through eight and a third.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that great job by them, Mikey, great job by them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we had to, we

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[SPEAKER_01]: Stupid, hey, it's not a John and JJ pod if there's not some tangents.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I am Captain tangent, but during the regular season Yamamoto is the only one of those guys who qualify for the IRA title.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they had 22 starts.

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[SPEAKER_00]: by Clayton Kershaw, 2006 high school draft.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I wrote a lot about Clayton Kershaw in my old gig.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Dustin May was 18 stars.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they started landing knack during the regular season.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, last year they were the imperfect rotation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was still a high ceiling rotation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was still two first round picks in Walker, Bueller and Jack Flaherty and Yamamoto.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the rest of it was baling wire and and guys who, you know, were long relievers basically been conspirious and and our main man brought Honeywell, and this is where I was going JJ, you really this is kind of my theory and it's bouncing off a story you wrote at baseball american.com earlier in the week about the kind of the demise of the four five starter and I I guess where I kind of take that turn is

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[SPEAKER_00]: Both these teams, I think, are an example, and what the money really is for, as Don Draper said, is the money in my mind is for building two rotations.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You have to have a regular season rotation, and you have to have a postseason rotation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And these two teams really exemplify it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's a trend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If it is a trend, it's bad for the rest of the teams who can't afford to do this, but the Dodgers had their regular season rotation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: which was, let's get through, you know, 162 games, better than the Padre's, which was a challenge, you know, because the Padre's are really going forward, but then you have to have a fresh slate of starters for the postseason.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And Toronto, I guess, the surprising part of JJ is that they've been able to pull this off with really a postseason rotation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That is quite different from the regular season

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[SPEAKER_01]: I would interject here that they've done kind of the same thing here in that like you say the Dodgers and the Dodgers, the stat I've used for the Dodgers is this Dodgers postseason rotation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: These starters through less than 50% of their starter pitcher innings in the regular season.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And now they're close to 80% of all of their innings in the postseason.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But then when you talk about the blue jays, the blue jays, the the starters that got them here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: were Kevin Gosvain, okay, and one is still in the rotation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Chris Bassett, Josebarius, Eric Lauer, Max Scherzer, and Bowden, and Bowden Francis.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Those, that's their guys who had 10 plus starts for them in the regular season.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I know Barrios is hurt, but let's be honest, if he wasn't hurt, I don't know if he'd be in the rotation right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and right and Bassett's not in the rotation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We last seen pitching a good inning in the eighth inning of game seven, but still like he threw what two and two thirds innings all the way here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think he was not on the LDS roster.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He was on the LCS.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He made two appearances for two and two thirds innings.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That one inning that will be very much remembered in game seven.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was a, oh, he's in anything he crews through it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Located landed some curveballs, you know, like surprised them guys all that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But as you said, doubt rotation got them here, and then they're like, okay, gotsman's rounding into premium form.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have Max Scherzer, who did make a start in LCS, but it's kind of like, okay, but I think it was smart of them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let them off the LDS roster.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let him kind of marinate, let him kind of let that adrenaline build to kind of get Max, Max, Max, Max Scherzer, and boom, that's what we got.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So

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[SPEAKER_01]: It is a funny thing for me and have a whole different rotation too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, could we get Max Scherzer on 20 days rest again if you're Toronto and they had signed point to know, but I mean, it's certainly worked and they got the best version of him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think the funny part for them and the two rotation's part is Eric Lauer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Eric Lauer was, I believe, a minor league created signing for them in the offseason.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I had to earn his spot in spring training.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Second of all, for coming back, and he was our best starting pitcher for a large swath of the regular season.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He had a three 18 hour aid during the regular season, but he hasn't been anywhere near important innings in the postseason for Toronto.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's really where we are, I think, with, and I think we sought also writ large with Seattle.

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[SPEAKER_00]: How there was some fatigue with the Mariners rotation of the postseason, I think that was supposed to be their strength as you evaluate them as an organization

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, clearly an ill-timed injury to Brian Wu.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I think if you're a Mariners fan, you're biggest what if from the ALCS is the way they use their bullpin and gave seven.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The number two what if is Brian Wu.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, what if he just stays healthy?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What if, you know, the novelty of how awesome it was that he went, what 23, 24 starts in a row with six innings and no more than one walk, two walks, whatever that stretch was was a side was a dent and true.

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[SPEAKER_01]: kind of the embodiment of, I would say, the traditional rotation of what you're looking for, they have five starters who are exceptional.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're all there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're all really good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And here we are where you would say that that's what you want, but Logan Gilbert was at 7-7-1,

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[SPEAKER_01]: George Kirby was a 10.13 ERA in the LCS.

14:41.679 --> 14:48.167
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Bryce Miller was played, 1.80 or 1.80 ERA, but Luis Castillo, 11.87 ERA.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You had one of the best rotations built, and three of the four starters and started for them had ERAs above seven in the LCS.

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[SPEAKER_01]: As you said, it didn't feel like that they were all at their best.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think what we've seen is kind of the efficacy of a crisp acid or an Eric Lauer or that kind of picture is someone who can be good enough to get you through the regular season and those innings are important.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Those regular season innings are important.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If the blue days had lost one more game, they're the four seed, not the one seed, they're behind the Yankees.

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[SPEAKER_00]: in the regular season they were just better than the Yankees, but the biggest way they were better than the Yankees was playing a Roger Center.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They dominated New York in the regular season in Toronto and in the postseason in Toronto where they kind of clubbed them in those two games in the Division series.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But did they get to the world series if they aren't the one seed they had the same record as as the Yankees in the regular season and then they were, you know, much better in extra inning games and they were than the Yankees were that was really the difference in the regular season kind of had tip to Joe she and pointed that out pretty regularly in his newsletter all year that a lot of the second and third order parts of evaluating these teams favor the Yankees.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But so that one, just one or two games really were crucial.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Every single regular season game was crucial really for Toronto at the end of the season because they, they, they tied for first place in the AL east with the Yankees and they, but by virtue of winning that tie, that tie breaker, they had home field advantage and they, you know, took advantage of it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they had to have those back of the rotation guys

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[SPEAKER_00]: he's locked up for several more years still and you know he's young is she's 31 years old, but that guy's whole calling card has been durability.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there has been a recognition by the BlueJace for an office that they have valued durability, maybe more than some other for an office has have.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I think the other part of this, the other

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[SPEAKER_00]: be this end of the season kind of ace or good enough to be a five or six hitting starter.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's the part that they necessarily plan on having, but he's been the difference maker that's really allowed them to have a second rotation basically.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I do think they kind of did plan on to, though, to their credit, which is I think it was always structured this year to get him to October and healthy and okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But he's done it to their credit and to his, they've nurtured him through the whole season, and he has been able to make a work and get out in Dunedin and get out in Vancouver, and at every step along the way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he didn't qualify for the ERA title anywhere either, JJ, but that's just because he kept on moving through different levels.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I got to see him last year in Lynchburg, Virginia pitching for East Carolina against Liberty,

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[SPEAKER_00]: and his former high school teammate was his opponent that night for liberty and it was a fun game and it was fun to scout and to see like this is a guy you just haven't seen and then you're looking at the data afterwards and you're like this is data I haven't seen because the release point is so high it is so different and I can see why major league hitters

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[SPEAKER_00]: are having a hard time adjusting to it as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And this will be the first look at them for the Dodgers, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think there's a lot of overlap between these two teams farm systems either.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's any overlap.

18:39.949 --> 18:43.896
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, projects can only do so much.

18:44.658 --> 18:46.601
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a different, this is a different do.

18:46.701 --> 18:47.082
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

18:47.568 --> 18:50.031
[SPEAKER_00]: The doctors have a lot of information on Kevin Gosman.

18:50.171 --> 18:52.114
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't make him easy to prepare for.

18:52.174 --> 18:56.460
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not very many pictures who are fastball split 90% of the time.

18:56.640 --> 18:59.243
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I will just throw in for the old heads.

19:00.445 --> 19:01.987
[SPEAKER_00]: I love California.

19:02.167 --> 19:04.150
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Colorado high school products.

19:04.410 --> 19:11.199
[SPEAKER_00]: And Kevin Gosman is a Colorado high school pitcher and he is the best current version of that genre.

19:11.219 --> 19:12.281
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just love those dudes.

19:12.361 --> 19:15.685
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Gosman is I think the underrated guy here,

19:16.222 --> 19:19.786
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we think of him as a true number one starter.

19:19.946 --> 19:22.729
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where Andy McCullough puts him in his eighths ranking.

19:23.550 --> 19:26.292
[SPEAKER_00]: To me Kevin Gosman is pretty close to a true number one.

19:26.953 --> 19:29.055
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what's coming and he's still hard to hit.

19:29.556 --> 19:31.458
[SPEAKER_00]: And when he's on his game, he could dominate.

19:31.818 --> 19:40.687
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think the other key to this two rotations ideas, you do have to have a true number one at the front of this rotation.

19:40.747 --> 19:43.410
[SPEAKER_00]: And for the Dodgers, that has been

19:43.508 --> 19:47.715
[SPEAKER_00]: Yamamoto, and again, that's what the money is for, $325 million.

19:48.556 --> 19:57.731
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a bumpy rookie season, but he was good enough in October last year when the Dodgers needed him to be one of those three main starters, and this year he has for an encore.

19:58.132 --> 20:00.876
[SPEAKER_00]: He has been outstanding, has been everything they expected.

20:01.312 --> 20:02.915
[SPEAKER_00]: And for the blue jays, it's been gossiping.

20:03.055 --> 20:05.880
[SPEAKER_00]: And guess what, they paid a lot of money for Kevin Gosshamon too.

20:05.940 --> 20:16.019
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think to make this two rotation of the work, you do have to have, it helps to have some power, fire, fire breeding dragons, as they say, available for the postseason.

20:16.540 --> 20:23.432
[SPEAKER_00]: It helps to have some low bearing kind of back of the rotation stalwarts, like a bacid or a burillo.

20:23.472 --> 20:25.075
[SPEAKER_00]: So those guys can be expensive too.

20:25.443 --> 20:37.021
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think you have to have that number one guy to who can give you both who can give you innings and production in the regular season and innings and power and production in the post season.

20:37.061 --> 20:44.633
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just something that seems like it's happening more often as we go through like this.

20:44.984 --> 20:48.728
[SPEAKER_00]: era of just chewing up and spitting out pitching staffs in the postseason.

20:49.268 --> 20:51.491
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just the pictures are giving so much effort.

20:51.591 --> 20:53.112
[SPEAKER_00]: The stuff is so high quality.

20:53.633 --> 20:55.155
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you have done as good a job.

20:55.215 --> 21:04.264
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not better than anybody in the media of detailing the value of velocity and the need for it for championship teams.

21:04.304 --> 21:05.525
[SPEAKER_00]: And these two teams have some of that.

21:05.545 --> 21:07.628
[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess the Dodgers really do have more.

21:08.108 --> 21:11.852
[SPEAKER_00]: If I look at these two pitching staffs, they have some similarities in their

21:12.220 --> 21:18.689
[SPEAKER_00]: the Dodgers, they've got the gas, and doesn't mean that Toronto doesn't, but LA has more.

21:19.049 --> 21:20.652
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a big advantage, I think, for the Dodgers.

21:22.534 --> 21:29.023
[SPEAKER_01]: The Dodgers have four guys who, if they're on on a night, just, they're, they're not, that's you people.

21:29.744 --> 21:31.366
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the, that's just the reality of it.

21:31.386 --> 21:39.898
[SPEAKER_01]: They have four starters who, every single one of them, if they're on, you end up with quotes at the end of the night

21:40.790 --> 21:45.276
[SPEAKER_01]: What you got to just hit the cap to them, you know, if you have to keep your picture like that, it's going to be really a difficult night.

21:45.316 --> 21:49.762
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's just the kind of the cliche that comes out of it, because all these guys are that good.

21:50.804 --> 22:02.420
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's one other kind of very fascinating conundrum for just poses in this world series that I'm sorry, which is, well, but Chat looks like he's ready to rejoin the loss for.

22:04.182 --> 22:04.603
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

22:06.001 --> 22:20.722
[SPEAKER_01]: But to BlueJays have used a better defense in the most season, I would say that we could play, and say that Hamanas has played generally and in reference to the chat during the season when they're both healthy.

22:21.022 --> 22:31.317
[SPEAKER_01]: But now that Anders Hamanas is there's shortstop, he's just a better shortstop defense list, especially than a somewhat limited and an injured, Boba said.

22:31.870 --> 22:38.580
[SPEAKER_01]: Boba Shets back now, you want his bat in the lineup, but how do you think you'd best kind of give your out of weight?

22:40.923 --> 22:48.795
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, first of all, I just want to know, you know that Patton Oswald in Parks and Rec is just playing on a loop in my head talking about Boba Shets.

22:49.055 --> 22:52.400
[SPEAKER_00]: Boba Shets coming back and I can't get that out of my head.

22:52.781 --> 23:01.253
[SPEAKER_00]: So this putting that off to the side.

23:01.587 --> 23:03.990
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm volunteering, let me play second base.

23:04.651 --> 23:08.516
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to reassure teams that I can play second base.

23:08.916 --> 23:11.880
[SPEAKER_00]: If they're going to pay, they're going to give me a nine figure contract.

23:12.241 --> 23:15.285
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them to feel confident that they can do that with me at second base.

23:15.305 --> 23:16.626
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there's some risk attached there.

23:17.207 --> 23:31.105
[SPEAKER_00]: If your boba ship, but to me second base, which he's never played in the major leagues, and I'm going to guess he never played in the minor leagues, and I have to ask Nick Gordon or Logan Wormuth or Brandon Rogers or some of his other Orlando short stops from a decade ago in high school,

23:31.372 --> 23:33.896
[SPEAKER_00]: Did idea, you guys have a four-spobeship to play second base.

23:33.996 --> 23:36.579
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to think back to seeing him the underarmer game in 2019.

23:37.801 --> 23:38.542
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me interject.

23:39.163 --> 23:39.804
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

23:39.824 --> 23:44.050
[SPEAKER_01]: Six games in the GCL in 2016.

23:45.031 --> 23:46.894
[SPEAKER_00]: So he has plays of second base in the minor.

23:46.914 --> 23:53.063
[SPEAKER_01]: And hand and hold on and one game in 2019 in Buffalo.

23:53.083 --> 23:56.788
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember asking him about the prospect card in 2017.

23:57.072 --> 23:59.695
[SPEAKER_00]: He came in first and vlighted junior came in last.

23:59.775 --> 24:01.457
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember thinking, is there a rift here?

24:01.497 --> 24:02.538
[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on with these guys?

24:02.578 --> 24:06.462
[SPEAKER_00]: But Boba's shed also just for me to Boba's shed.

24:07.203 --> 24:08.184
[SPEAKER_00]: I missed that hair.

24:08.344 --> 24:09.786
[SPEAKER_00]: I missed his old hair.

24:09.806 --> 24:10.867
[SPEAKER_00]: 80 hair.

24:10.967 --> 24:20.137
[SPEAKER_00]: But to me, he needs to move to second base, place Isaiah, Kiner, Phileph, and the lineup, and also use it as a platform.

24:20.157 --> 24:26.404
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a motivation of being an impending free agent and playing in a world series.

24:26.941 --> 24:30.045
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, assure other teams that you can make that transition.

24:30.065 --> 24:33.650
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a lot of motivation for him to be his best at second base.

24:33.791 --> 24:36.635
[SPEAKER_00]: That said, he's got a messed up knee.

24:37.115 --> 24:38.577
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was a PCL strain.

24:38.638 --> 24:42.543
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm not mistaken, he's been, he hasn't played for six weeks.

24:43.144 --> 24:46.729
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not worried about him hitting because he's a natural hitter.

24:47.570 --> 24:48.932
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't hit with that.

24:49.368 --> 24:51.951
[SPEAKER_00]: level of movement in his swing that he's always had.

24:51.971 --> 24:56.996
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always been a feature, the big hand pump, the big leg kick.

24:57.036 --> 25:04.423
[SPEAKER_00]: He's always had a lot of movement in his swing and yet he let the league and hits twice and he would have let the league and hits again this year if he'd been healthy the whole season.

25:05.705 --> 25:14.093
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, Boba Shet, I'm not as worried about him hitting like don't want to disrupt what's going right with George Springer at his age and with the

25:14.596 --> 25:25.534
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, hit by pitch office knee that in the ALCS that clearly limited him a little bit at least in his movements, obviously didn't limit him in game seven, but

25:25.936 --> 25:28.880
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I want to disrupt your springer as little as possible.

25:29.240 --> 25:35.309
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm going to disrupt anybody on the blue jays, it's going to be Isaiah kind of a lefa with that 40-grade arm.

25:35.869 --> 25:42.238
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's see if Boba Shet can move just enough at second base to be properly positioned, not the ball down, pick it up.

25:42.639 --> 25:47.245
[SPEAKER_00]: You had an interesting idea about him playing third base that maybe you thought might be a better move for him.

25:47.265 --> 25:48.286
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want him in the line up.

25:48.326 --> 25:49.648
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want him on the bench.

25:49.831 --> 25:50.212
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

25:50.352 --> 25:58.106
[SPEAKER_01]: So the other option, obviously, here, you kind of a bleakly talked about it, which is, is you could say, okay, can we get George Springer back into the outfield?

25:58.386 --> 26:02.394
[SPEAKER_01]: Something he has not done in the postseason, but obviously he did play right.

26:02.454 --> 26:09.747
[SPEAKER_01]: If you played all three out of the explosions or the redvices, but DH more games than he played in the field period, you could do that.

26:10.098 --> 26:16.492
[SPEAKER_01]: I was kind of initially leaning towards that, like, okay, that way you get Boba shut in the lineup, but you're with his knees coming up in the injury.

26:16.873 --> 26:18.136
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not worried as much about that.

26:19.178 --> 26:28.900
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I came away with it's like, probably don't want to do that because if you do that, you're thinking of having that temptation in the later inning to flip up.

26:29.588 --> 26:32.271
[SPEAKER_01]: to pull springer, and I don't want to pull springer from going.

26:32.332 --> 26:38.239
[SPEAKER_01]: Try to choose two important matters for them to say, hey, we've got to lead us with seven that's eight to see them in the nine.

26:38.640 --> 26:41.924
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to now go to our defense line up and bring us out of the game.

26:42.725 --> 26:51.396
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I'll have as much worry about doing that with going to a better defensive lineup in late innings with Boba Schet, than I do George Springer.

26:51.937 --> 26:54.280
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing that I will give them credit for here,

26:55.087 --> 26:57.850
[SPEAKER_01]: This all becomes multiple possibilities.

26:57.870 --> 26:58.850
[SPEAKER_01]: Because obviously, they could.

26:59.251 --> 27:01.253
[SPEAKER_01]: The other option is, is you play a shed at short.

27:01.553 --> 27:02.654
[SPEAKER_01]: Physician is always played.

27:03.114 --> 27:04.676
[SPEAKER_01]: You move him in as back to second.

27:05.136 --> 27:06.457
[SPEAKER_01]: You put Ernie Comenet third.

27:06.758 --> 27:11.582
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you can also, you have Madison Bard, or who also kind of goes back and forth between the up-to-date show.

27:11.602 --> 27:12.603
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also play third.

27:13.003 --> 27:14.425
[SPEAKER_01]: You have, you could do that.

27:14.545 --> 27:17.928
[SPEAKER_01]: Make the IK after you're back up, your defensive or placement.

27:18.608 --> 27:19.449
[SPEAKER_01]: You also can do that.

27:19.489 --> 27:23.693
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are multiple options here.

27:24.432 --> 27:33.407
[SPEAKER_01]: which is kind of a credit for the fact that you have guys like Clement and Jimenez are going to give you really going to defense kind of wherever you.

27:33.427 --> 27:37.354
[SPEAKER_00]: That's really to me like one of the things that stands out about their roster, the most.

27:37.374 --> 27:40.279
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Mark Chapiro and Ross Acke is deserve a ton of credit.

27:41.561 --> 27:44.466
[SPEAKER_00]: This is they have a lot of levers to pull for John Schneider.

27:44.506 --> 27:50.035
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a lot of different, he could go door number one, door number two, door number three,

27:50.572 --> 27:52.314
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can play him in as a short stop.

27:52.354 --> 27:53.775
[SPEAKER_00]: You can play only Clemente, a short stop.

27:53.795 --> 27:56.577
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't advise that, but he's sure handed.

27:56.898 --> 28:11.490
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess the different for them this year, the several of their run prevention oriented players produced offensively at levels they had and produced in Toronto in 2024, when they were literally the last place team in the American League East.

28:11.951 --> 28:14.613
[SPEAKER_00]: So mile straw is a defense oriented player.

28:14.633 --> 28:20.258
[SPEAKER_00]: When are your all-time faves?

28:20.677 --> 28:31.554
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a defensive oriented center filter defensive replacement speed guy and can really do that exceptionally well off the bench or an amplitude roll against Blake's now.

28:32.776 --> 28:44.355
[SPEAKER_00]: Clement and Jimenez can move all around the infield and their plus defensive players at any of those positions so it's a good option to have they have options they have levers to pull.

28:44.977 --> 29:10.107
[SPEAKER_01]: This, this, they, they should not get to this point, but I always like to make the point that also I cannot think of another team and MLB history basically where you can carry two catchers on your both season roster, but if something happened and like Kurt got her and Heinemann got her and you're like, oh, no, we're down to the emergency catchers, then you've got you look at it, don't vartial and I KF and you're looking at both of them, you're going, okay, what should you guys?

29:10.087 --> 29:15.255
[SPEAKER_01]: Both of whom have been quality ML teachers at earlier parts of their career.

29:15.675 --> 29:36.246
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like something that this is not the same thing as the third catcher where it's like, oh, you know, we've got, you know, uh, church's just book a barara on the lineup because he can kind of catch or, you know, but like something like that many years ago, they have two legitimate used to be quality MLB catchers who are playing other positions very well defensively now.

29:36.226 --> 29:38.068
[SPEAKER_01]: that's something that you just never see.

29:38.649 --> 29:47.201
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be the fact that this and that leads into kind of this overarching question, which is, okay, the Dodgers are the favorite of this series.

29:47.281 --> 29:48.022
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just be clear.

29:48.583 --> 29:52.828
[SPEAKER_01]: They are, they are the dinosaur, the potential dynasty.

29:52.909 --> 29:54.270
[SPEAKER_01]: It's let's just be clear also.

29:54.851 --> 30:03.583
[SPEAKER_01]: They win this real series and they are really the first

30:03.817 --> 30:14.451
[SPEAKER_01]: As far as, like, if you say that winning roasters, giants and Dodgers are the three teams, I think you can say, can make that argument since like the mid 2000s.

30:16.033 --> 30:19.098
[SPEAKER_01]: The giants, obviously, the crazy part of this, the giants won three-world series.

30:20.059 --> 30:26.948
[SPEAKER_01]: Winning divisions, that wasn't really as much as their, you know, part of their MO, but they did win three-world series and six years.

30:27.028 --> 30:30.533
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but when you look at this,

30:31.002 --> 30:35.167
[SPEAKER_01]: Blue Jays team, how can the blue Jays, what do you think has to happen?

30:35.187 --> 30:41.975
[SPEAKER_01]: What do the blue Jays have to do here to walk off with their first title in basically in over 30 years?

30:43.537 --> 30:49.164
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, first off, I think the daughters have to not be as sharp as they were in the naturally postseason.

30:49.444 --> 30:50.386
[SPEAKER_00]: They were very sharp.

30:50.606 --> 30:53.189
[SPEAKER_00]: They played one sloppyish game against the Phillies.

30:53.409 --> 30:54.691
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's the only one they lost.

30:56.113 --> 30:57.154
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't play great.

30:57.334 --> 31:00.638
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think in game one

31:01.073 --> 31:03.997
[SPEAKER_00]: But when the Dodgers needed it, you know, they had offense.

31:04.017 --> 31:08.783
[SPEAKER_00]: They had the big three hundred by Tiosker hurt and hurt and as they've had big hits up and down their lineup.

31:08.823 --> 31:13.229
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're posties and offensive numbers are huge when you're just looking up and down their lineup.

31:13.269 --> 31:16.434
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Alex calls like three for seven or four for seven.

31:16.454 --> 31:19.518
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Ben Ward that's speaking of back up catchers has hit.

31:19.618 --> 31:21.781
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and they've had some adversity.

31:21.801 --> 31:26.267
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, well, Smith didn't catch most of the month of September with a broken hand.

31:26.327 --> 31:29.511
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this guy's been there best right at a hit or this year.

31:29.812 --> 31:33.596
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's seem like a potential problem, I don't think it's a problem anymore.

31:33.676 --> 31:40.544
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that you, number one, the Dodger at the being not as sharp and they are going to have what a one week layoff, right, JJ?

31:41.405 --> 31:42.706
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, that's lengthy.

31:42.846 --> 31:43.887
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's not nothing.

31:44.628 --> 31:47.411
[SPEAKER_00]: Even in the all-star break, you don't go a full week without playing.

31:47.812 --> 31:51.095
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think you have to hope the Dodger's aren't sharp if you're Toronto.

31:51.596 --> 31:53.558
[SPEAKER_00]: Number two, Toronto has to be

31:53.909 --> 31:55.973
[SPEAKER_00]: playing in its 90th percentile of outcomes.

31:55.993 --> 31:58.958
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to get George Springer getting big hits.

31:58.978 --> 32:02.224
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the all-time winner and wins probability added in the postseason.

32:02.424 --> 32:06.150
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, all-time leader, you're going to need that level of George Springer.

32:06.171 --> 32:11.580
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, what the Dodgers have shown the last two postseason is their stars perform.

32:11.898 --> 32:28.226
[SPEAKER_00]: in the postseason, whether it's Friday Freeman or game four, show Hayo Tani, and they have the depth of stars that show Hayo Tani can go for 33 for a stretch of postseason games and they can just go right along just fine without it.

32:28.326 --> 32:31.071
[SPEAKER_00]: So Karanta doesn't have that level of depth.

32:31.490 --> 32:32.992
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to need Besheat.

32:33.292 --> 32:35.656
[SPEAKER_00]: If he's going to play, Besheat has to be Bob Shet.

32:36.076 --> 32:41.584
[SPEAKER_00]: He has to be a pure hitter who can turn around the loss and he can hit this level of pitching.

32:41.984 --> 32:50.195
[SPEAKER_00]: I really do think that's what the one thing that Blue Days do have that other teams don't is guys like Kirk, Besheat, Guerrero.

32:50.656 --> 32:52.598
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you question that those guys can hit good pitching?

32:52.899 --> 32:53.259
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't.

32:53.620 --> 32:54.561
[SPEAKER_00]: Those guys

32:54.946 --> 32:56.568
[SPEAKER_00]: That's their whole demo, right?

32:56.788 --> 32:59.111
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's not a motor difference.

32:59.131 --> 33:02.075
[SPEAKER_01]: It's your born that Vladimir Guerrero Jr. can't hit.

33:02.095 --> 33:06.681
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, pull the 40 and hit 113 mile an hour, like three iron, right?

33:06.721 --> 33:08.964
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, like it goes over the left field or so.

33:09.024 --> 33:17.835
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, nobody hits pure line drives like that guy, except for maybe Otani and Jim Carlos Stanton from a pure line drive EV.

33:18.356 --> 33:19.017
[SPEAKER_00]: That's your guy.

33:19.437 --> 33:21.119
[SPEAKER_00]: But Bob Sched is a pure hitter.

33:21.239 --> 33:21.780
[SPEAKER_00]: He is.

33:22.199 --> 33:35.243
[SPEAKER_00]: In the small group of pure hitters for me in the major leagues, Alejandro Kirk will never forget watching him look way too much like me on the back fields watching a bit pirate city in a spring trading game in 2019.

33:36.025 --> 33:38.750
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a guy who won the catching save my life.

33:38.770 --> 33:42.537
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the best the song he should play on his when his career is over.

33:42.517 --> 33:43.579
[SPEAKER_00]: But that guy can hit.

33:44.320 --> 33:46.505
[SPEAKER_00]: He's short of the ball and long through the zone.

33:47.366 --> 33:52.336
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess they call that good angles down, but he has good angles and is a pure hitter.

33:52.836 --> 33:54.800
[SPEAKER_00]: I would also say Ernie Clement is that kind of hitter.

33:54.820 --> 33:57.866
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a dead star, but it's not, oh, doesn't take him long.

33:57.906 --> 34:01.433
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not trying to load up and crush every pitch.

34:02.154 --> 34:04.118
[SPEAKER_00]: So he can hit velocity.

34:04.338 --> 34:05.841
[SPEAKER_00]: So they have some hitters.

34:06.175 --> 34:13.525
[SPEAKER_00]: who were tuned that way, so I don't think you can expect Nathan Lucas and him and as it two big home runs in the LCS.

34:14.266 --> 34:17.390
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just not his game, so their stars are going to have to perform.

34:17.410 --> 34:24.799
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the matchup, they are a uniquely suited team in terms of pure hitting ability to hit the Dodgers pitching.

34:24.819 --> 34:31.508
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's one, I think number two, really big one for Toronto

34:31.893 --> 34:40.545
[SPEAKER_00]: their starting pitching is going to have the post because I think the biggest difference is the Dodgers and the blue jays, either one of these teams has a good bullpen JJ.

34:40.565 --> 34:44.791
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like not a good bullpen, not to mention not a great bullpen.

34:44.811 --> 34:50.479
[SPEAKER_00]: The Dodgers last year, one with their bullpen being great in the postseason as well as their offense.

34:50.499 --> 34:52.101
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you think has the better bullpen here?

34:52.602 --> 34:54.825
[SPEAKER_00]: I would give an edge to the field.

34:56.507 --> 34:59.892
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think either team has even what I would call a good

35:00.800 --> 35:17.282
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that that is kind of, I think that for the BlueJays to win, they have to get into the Dodgers bulldozer, because that is clearly the, so much the Wokey Suzuki's improvement in September or October, it's made a big difference because it is, it has reshifted everything.

35:17.302 --> 35:25.272
[SPEAKER_01]: We're all the sudden he's the guy in those situations, not like China who was not handling them very well in September, that has really grown, but there's still a,

35:26.399 --> 35:45.046
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're the Dodgers, you are looking at this saying, we plan on, we hope to get, again, through the 6th or 7th with our starter, and hopefully it came it off to a pen with a couple of run multiple run lead, where we say, hey, it's 3-1, it's 4-0, you know, for nothing, it's 2-0 thing.

35:45.106 --> 35:51.075
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever it is, works like there's a little bit of margin here, and if they don't, that's where I think the BlueJays can do this.

35:51.395 --> 35:52.677
[SPEAKER_01]: The other part you hit on, though,

35:53.703 --> 35:57.596
[SPEAKER_01]: The, the, the Dodgers are very right-handed pitching wise.

35:58.037 --> 36:03.274
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, this Blue J team's not particularly built to really.

36:04.722 --> 36:06.905
[SPEAKER_01]: exploit that though, you know, really.

36:06.945 --> 36:07.225
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

36:07.305 --> 36:07.545
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it?

36:07.565 --> 36:16.876
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's not really, won't look at this and say, oh, this is where, you know, this is where these lefties in the BlueJ's lineup can really feast on this.

36:16.976 --> 36:19.359
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, again, you hope that it's your BlueJ's fame.

36:19.379 --> 36:21.361
[SPEAKER_01]: You hope that it's a good matchup for Don Bar Show.

36:21.782 --> 36:26.227
[SPEAKER_01]: You hope that it's a good matchup, you know, for, you know, Addison Bar.

36:26.367 --> 36:27.068
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Addison Bar.

36:28.229 --> 36:31.253
[SPEAKER_01]: And then as, like, you got guys like that, but it's not,

36:31.537 --> 37:00.649
[SPEAKER_01]: you just don't you don't have respect for my mandate of Lucas JJ that's all there is to I am not a yes I am I know he has had a very good postseason if that's so good that's the guy want if I'm the Dodgers that's the guy I want up in situations where short we we're going to let Nathan Lucas try to beat us we're not going to have fun junior beat us we're not going to let George bring her beat us again when we talk about they're big bats our guys who are going to be facing

37:01.439 --> 37:07.390
[SPEAKER_01]: almost all of the time against basically the biggest of the budget.

37:08.232 --> 37:09.093
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that's a great point.

37:09.554 --> 37:11.378
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's an important point to mention.

37:11.798 --> 37:14.624
[SPEAKER_00]: Sasaki is really the difference between the two bullpins.

37:15.085 --> 37:18.992
[SPEAKER_00]: If I give it advantage to one, it would be to the Dodger bullpen because of Sasaki.

37:19.293 --> 37:29.669
[SPEAKER_00]: respect to Louis Varlan, my former coworker, you know, a tremendous development story and he's been the one thing I'll say for Lou Varlan.

37:30.109 --> 37:31.872
[SPEAKER_00]: He is fearless.

37:32.994 --> 37:35.397
[SPEAKER_00]: He has that velocity slap.

37:35.417 --> 37:36.299
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've seen it.

37:36.759 --> 37:42.868
[SPEAKER_00]: He used to focus on a lot in the Minnesota bull pit where they slap him on the back as hard as they can to get the adrenaline going.

37:43.489 --> 37:44.571
[SPEAKER_00]: He gets up to a hundo.

37:45.032 --> 37:45.993
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got my knuckle curve.

37:46.073 --> 37:47.916
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good

37:48.537 --> 37:51.961
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure he's got a great answer for left-handed hitters if he's at a pocket.

37:52.782 --> 37:53.343
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to pitch.

37:53.363 --> 37:54.164
[SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be an ending.

37:55.025 --> 38:02.153
[SPEAKER_00]: If the Bluegees are winning a game, or they're going to ask Lou Varland to pitch like a seventh inning, and it's going to be like O'Donnie Bets Freeman.

38:02.854 --> 38:04.296
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's the flip side here.

38:04.576 --> 38:05.237
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?

38:05.257 --> 38:13.347
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go right handed against the Dodgers, if you go left against the Dodgers, it's like

38:13.732 --> 38:26.053
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got a little bit more of like it's a much more difficult, difficult challenge, especially like said that top of that lineup, you really want to have a right handed, you know, do you want to have a right hand picture on the mound would show you Tony steps to the plate.

38:26.590 --> 38:28.052
[SPEAKER_00]: No, and that's the problem.

38:28.092 --> 38:30.115
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you get a, are you going to have Mason flu already?

38:30.135 --> 38:36.725
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to have Brendan little, I'm like, Brendan little has been, I think he led their team in an, in an appearances during the season.

38:37.206 --> 38:43.536
[SPEAKER_00]: He pitched a lot in the postseason, but mostly it's been in the next day or that night, but oh, why did they use Brendan little there?

38:43.576 --> 38:51.788
[SPEAKER_01]: So to me, there's an advantage, hours not coming through that gate, probably either is like, okay, this is the key moment we've been waiting for, but maybe it's not.

38:51.768 --> 39:01.755
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's really, to me, that's the, like the Dodgers Bolton isn't deep that do have two guys I trust in Sasaki and um, um, uh, you just mentioned him.

39:01.935 --> 39:02.858
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Alex Vesia.

39:03.620 --> 39:07.009
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, let's just say that's what I think like trying to, but I would not put in in circles.

39:07.411 --> 39:22.312
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds vessia and I think he isn't in Dave Robert circle of trust like you said there's not a ton of matchups that favor him, but they do favor Sasaki so I think you know rookie Sasaki who was and that's the other fascinating part to me.

39:22.332 --> 39:34.870
[SPEAKER_00]: These two franchises have been linked in the off season the last two years by the Otani chase and the Sasaki chase and in both cases Toronto thought they were really in on it with it's the sake where they traded for.

39:35.255 --> 40:02.443
[SPEAKER_01]: a mile straw and it's $13 million and two years, just they acquired him as well as some international bonus pool money right and and the trade was mile straw and international bonus pool money for a player to be named or cash considerations and I have found no record of any player to be named or cash considerations that later when back in return because it was pretty much like.

40:02.592 --> 40:09.644
[SPEAKER_01]: The play, if you'll take the player's contract, we'll give you the bonus pool money and we'll throw in some money I believe also to help pay for some of the contract.

40:10.085 --> 40:13.250
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a train of like, we give you this.

40:13.330 --> 40:14.352
[SPEAKER_01]: What did we get back to return?

40:14.873 --> 40:15.193
[SPEAKER_01]: We're good.

40:16.115 --> 40:16.475
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

40:16.495 --> 40:25.150
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I also got back further that when Alex andropolis had the apple of his eye was Vlad Guerrero Jr. after he saw him when he was 14 years old.

40:25.531 --> 40:28.195
[SPEAKER_00]: They traded two major league future major leagueers.

40:28.411 --> 40:34.017
[SPEAKER_00]: to prospect to the Dodgers for the pool bunny, so they could max out on Vlad Guerrero Jr. signing him in 2015.

40:34.117 --> 40:36.960
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it was John Birdie in Chase, the John.

40:37.741 --> 40:38.481
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I remember that right?

40:38.501 --> 40:39.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Either way, well done.

40:39.823 --> 40:40.363
[SPEAKER_01]: Well done.

40:41.224 --> 40:41.625
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good.

40:41.885 --> 40:42.846
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I wrote that.

40:42.946 --> 40:43.607
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, well done.

40:43.647 --> 40:46.250
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad, like acquiring Vlad Jr. two behaviors.

40:47.150 --> 40:47.491
[SPEAKER_01]: Well done.

40:47.791 --> 40:48.472
[SPEAKER_01]: Two thumbs up.

40:48.492 --> 40:48.712
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

40:49.553 --> 40:52.016
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and John Birdie, I think was still active this past season.

40:52.336 --> 40:54.919
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, maybe 36.

40:55.039 --> 40:57.321
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the

40:57.503 --> 40:58.584
[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't talked enough.

40:59.325 --> 41:05.432
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Vladimir Margaro Jr., and we did this a little bit on the cross-mode podcast this week, but I want to do it here again.

41:05.572 --> 41:13.260
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Vladimir Margaro Jr., is, we could do an appreciation of Sholio Tani.

41:13.320 --> 41:13.941
[SPEAKER_01]: He's incredible.

41:13.961 --> 41:21.229
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, but, but Vladimir is more of incredible in the realm of things that are easier to understand, right?

41:21.249 --> 41:26.835
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a guy who's been the best hitter on every,

41:27.170 --> 41:33.235
[SPEAKER_01]: field he's ever stepped on to since he was probably 13 or 14, right?

41:33.295 --> 41:37.158
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is something where and here he is to his credit.

41:37.198 --> 41:40.241
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he is a now I would say a very good third space.

41:40.541 --> 41:42.703
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is really all you were hoping for there.

41:42.723 --> 41:43.564
[SPEAKER_01]: But I agree.

41:44.464 --> 41:48.888
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a perfect way to end it here, which is Flamaguro Jr. We talk a little bit more about him.

41:48.928 --> 41:57.075
[SPEAKER_01]: He has been the best hitter on probably ever

41:57.697 --> 42:05.771
[SPEAKER_01]: he fits within the realm of like showy otony is in the eye can explain it because there's no one else like him, Vladimir Graer Jr. is the eye can explain it.

42:05.891 --> 42:17.511
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just an incredible hitter, he hits the ball incredibly hard, he's stinging live drive after stinging line drive, he's become a very solid first base been defensively I feel like as well, he is

42:17.947 --> 42:30.690
[SPEAKER_01]: Also in braced, I would say the role of team leader like he is now, when you talk about the face of the franchise part of that, he's got the long term, you know, the long term contract.

42:31.244 --> 42:34.711
[SPEAKER_01]: He as Toronto has embraced him, he has embraced Toronto.

42:35.292 --> 42:38.157
[SPEAKER_01]: He understands the magnitude of his moment.

42:38.197 --> 42:49.499
[SPEAKER_01]: We have that play of him going to third and then scampering home, which is not something that you would say, like that you would expect the heavy speedy base running Vladimir Doroj in your play.

42:49.539 --> 42:51.463
[SPEAKER_01]: But what stands out to you?

42:51.443 --> 42:55.629
[SPEAKER_01]: about Vlad Jr. Having basically watched him, again, we've been fortunate.

42:56.230 --> 42:59.956
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a guy that we were talking about in top 100 meetings and putting them in the top 100.

43:00.056 --> 43:04.343
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe before he may be ever played an actual official professional game.

43:05.144 --> 43:05.905
[SPEAKER_00]: That was about right.

43:06.145 --> 43:06.886
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds about right.

43:06.947 --> 43:11.874
[SPEAKER_00]: I was lucky to see him in Bishop play in spring training games all the time in my scouting gig.

43:12.515 --> 43:20.387
[SPEAKER_00]: What I think about with Vlad Jr is just that he's like the perfect distillation of his dad and modern baseball.

43:21.059 --> 43:29.290
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone, the thing, if you talked to people who didn't get a chance to see Vlad seniors whole career, all they think of is him swinging at the ball to bounce the plate.

43:29.811 --> 43:31.333
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, he was a free swinger.

43:32.174 --> 43:45.152
[SPEAKER_00]: But he was just a, I would say he was a 70 hitter because he had such a barrel feel and he had tremendous power as well, which was muted somewhat by his inability to control the strike zone and hit the fact that he chased a lot.

43:45.873 --> 43:49.077
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't have chase rates per se, like we measure them now.

43:49.097 --> 43:50.239
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't have the

43:50.759 --> 44:09.406
[SPEAKER_00]: but he was noted for his aggression and you have his son who has a similar power, similar ability to barrel a ball and an ability to barrel the ball, no matter where it's pitched, but who has evolved from his old man to be selective to know the strike zone.

44:09.787 --> 44:18.319
[SPEAKER_00]: What was the stat that you gave in the podcast today that he had like 14 home runs in 27 strikeouts in

44:18.788 --> 44:27.940
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just a level of, I mean, when I think of it as a old man baseball fan now, I think of Demazio, I never saw, not that old.

44:29.482 --> 44:35.871
[SPEAKER_00]: But like you have, I think at 369 career strikeouts in 361 career home runs, if memory serves.

44:35.891 --> 44:36.612
[SPEAKER_00]: And it usually does.

44:37.673 --> 44:43.101
[SPEAKER_00]: This guys in a modern context, one of the higher contact, high power guy.

44:43.121 --> 44:46.365
[SPEAKER_00]: So to me, he's just like

44:46.683 --> 44:53.681
[SPEAKER_00]: Not clearly not as athletic, but I think he's actually undersold for his defensive first base over 162 games.

44:54.022 --> 44:56.929
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the ways you pace yourself is I'm not diving for that ball.

44:57.196 --> 45:00.319
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, I'm not going all out for that ball.

45:00.779 --> 45:02.321
[SPEAKER_00]: But in the posties, I think we've seen it.

45:03.021 --> 45:12.410
[SPEAKER_00]: And to me, one of the defining characteristics of baseball on 2025 is teams that try to go cheap at first base and teams that spend it first base is another separator.

45:12.790 --> 45:14.371
[SPEAKER_00]: These two teams spend it first base.

45:14.592 --> 45:15.793
[SPEAKER_00]: They're getting what they pay for.

45:16.113 --> 45:17.554
[SPEAKER_00]: They have great players at first base.

45:17.995 --> 45:21.758
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess technically they both could play first base for Canada and the World Baseball Classic next year.

45:22.058 --> 45:27.203
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to

45:27.740 --> 45:29.943
[SPEAKER_00]: the fever still still runs deep for me.

45:30.363 --> 45:34.088
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, both these guys are two way players of first face.

45:34.409 --> 45:36.772
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're both hit a repair with tremendous power.

45:36.852 --> 45:38.995
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a great match up.

45:39.015 --> 45:46.504
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think Vlad Jr to me is that he's just a hot more highly evolved, more modern version of his old man and his old man's a hall of favor.

45:46.685 --> 45:51.711
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a great player and just watching his career progress.

45:52.192 --> 45:54.675
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of the ups and downs, I think he answered a lot of critics this year.

45:55.448 --> 46:06.722
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the regular seasons for Flaid Jr. have been very good with one truly great season and that was 2021 where they didn't play every game at home, right, and I played them all out.

46:06.782 --> 46:09.605
[SPEAKER_01]: I was more though, like you hit 323 396 544.

46:10.626 --> 46:12.388
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's great.

46:12.589 --> 46:13.470
[SPEAKER_01]: And hey, that's great.

46:13.970 --> 46:16.033
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what got in that $500 million contract.

46:16.053 --> 46:22.080
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you have to look at the

46:22.600 --> 46:25.583
[SPEAKER_00]: and him committing to Toronto.

46:26.804 --> 46:31.829
[SPEAKER_00]: From a vibe standpoint, they had gone to the playoffs in 2023 and been swept out again.

46:31.849 --> 46:38.936
[SPEAKER_00]: They were oh and six and three playoff trips with this poor and then they go to last place in 2024.

46:39.917 --> 46:47.624
[SPEAKER_00]: They miss out on Otani, you know, they get psyched by the wrong tweets and the wrong airplane and all that stuff.

46:47.644 --> 46:48.625
[SPEAKER_00]: They have a bad 2024.

46:48.645 --> 46:50.667
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't land

46:51.187 --> 46:52.728
[SPEAKER_00]: The vibes had to change.

46:53.269 --> 46:58.473
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the number one thing that changed their vibes was him committing to the blue jays and the blue jays committing to him.

46:58.854 --> 47:00.175
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't quantify vibes.

47:00.415 --> 47:01.316
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they are real.

47:01.536 --> 47:03.898
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that their vibes changed as a franchise.

47:04.639 --> 47:06.440
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the players took advantage of that.

47:06.500 --> 47:07.521
[SPEAKER_00]: And the phone office did too.

47:07.541 --> 47:11.264
[SPEAKER_00]: And we didn't even mention Shane Bieber in the two rotations part.

47:12.265 --> 47:13.626
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the key trade.

47:13.646 --> 47:20.012
[SPEAKER_00]: This was not a great trade for

47:20.498 --> 47:28.768
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, got in very much at the end and got Lou Varland, like everyone else was getting bolted in pieces, but Shane Bieber was the best starting pitcher traded at the deadline.

47:29.029 --> 47:39.862
[SPEAKER_00]: He was definitely a two rotations guy and he's going to start and they've got a rookie, a true number one in my mind, a Gosman, and two former Saiyam award winners in Bieber and Scherzer.

47:40.323 --> 47:44.548
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a world that has a blueprint for a World Series championship.

47:44.528 --> 47:46.310
[SPEAKER_00]: rotation.

47:46.790 --> 47:50.273
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem is the Dodgers also have that kind of rotation.

47:50.293 --> 47:52.696
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do think it's that's that to be a good world series.

47:52.796 --> 47:56.399
[SPEAKER_00]: I do favor the Dodgers, but I do think they're passed for the Blue J.

47:57.140 --> 47:59.922
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think, yeah, like they do have it.

48:00.082 --> 48:07.890
[SPEAKER_01]: The one of our Vladimir's that I wanted to share, which is that since 2021, his low in games played is 156.

48:07.930 --> 48:11.633
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing to say about

48:12.085 --> 48:14.690
[SPEAKER_01]: day in, day out, day in, day out over and over.

48:14.771 --> 48:22.186
[SPEAKER_01]: He really hasn't had kind of a significant missed time at any point in the world, which also doesn't go.

48:22.426 --> 48:28.018
[SPEAKER_00]: If I had a bugle, I'd play it because he goes to post and that's uh, that's what again, that is what the money is for.

48:28.100 --> 48:34.575
[SPEAKER_01]: So I know that if you all listen to this, if you're at the 55 minute mark of this, you also are excited about the World Series.

48:34.896 --> 48:35.778
[SPEAKER_01]: We're very excited.

48:35.798 --> 48:38.123
[SPEAKER_01]: We cannot wait to see what's gonna happen.

48:38.183 --> 48:44.438
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what, you know, again, the way that we always try to put it, the way that I always talk about it with the BA staff is just like,

48:45.025 --> 48:46.547
[SPEAKER_01]: You've, I learned this from you.

48:46.567 --> 48:51.553
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what you're looking for because not that you want to go overboard, right?

48:51.613 --> 49:00.004
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean that every, that when you see this rotation, that this thought of rotation is whatever gene should have, or it can have, or it's like that.

49:00.024 --> 49:09.396
[SPEAKER_01]: But you are watching every aspect we cover from high school, you know, 15 year olds to the big leagues.

49:09.933 --> 49:11.154
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all aimed towards this.

49:11.335 --> 49:21.346
[SPEAKER_01]: You are trying to use this as your calibration tool because when you see what these players do, this is the standard.

49:21.466 --> 49:26.612
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the standard that is at least the aspirational standard for all players on their way.

49:26.632 --> 49:35.181
[SPEAKER_01]: When we talk about Vladimir Gerejo or Freddie Freeman or show you, show you Tony's not even aspirational, but even try to aspire to that anybody, you can't do it.

49:35.161 --> 49:38.469
[SPEAKER_01]: But these other players, you are talking about, that is what you are aspiring to.

49:38.509 --> 49:42.398
[SPEAKER_01]: How does this player compare to the top players in the major leagues?

49:42.579 --> 49:51.380
[SPEAKER_01]: And these are, we have a lot of the top players major league, George Spring, and we didn't talk about him at the time, but it's great to see that we're talking about when he was at UConnor.

49:51.400 --> 49:52.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember,

49:52.222 --> 50:05.440
[SPEAKER_01]: the agony of trying to figure him out in the minor leagues and I think we had this great write-up, except up at the baseball market, I come again about how it's just makes enough contact you are talking about a regular role and say it's pretty good.

50:06.862 --> 50:12.930
[SPEAKER_00]: He did, he came along and I mean he's had an amazing career, a historic career from what he's done in the postseason and

50:13.349 --> 50:16.714
[SPEAKER_00]: He's trying to get a third ring, correct or his own second ring.

50:16.754 --> 50:22.122
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't on 2020 Houston, but he's trying to get a ring that doesn't come with an asterisk for a lot of fans.

50:22.363 --> 50:25.187
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a legacy piece for George Springer as well.

50:25.287 --> 50:36.565
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if he's the key cog on this team, where he's forth in the major leagues in OPS, and at least the Toronto Blue Jays back in the Promised Land, I think he, I think it's a Hall of Fame piece for him.

50:36.625 --> 50:42.073
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot on the line for these he's but like you said, this is

50:42.492 --> 50:45.559
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where those profiles are created, a championship profile.

50:45.599 --> 50:52.756
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's going to be fun to watch and happy to talk about it with you for the last however long this podcast lines up being timed it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But so for John, I'm JJ.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a long everybody.