Charlie Robinson (00:02.849)
Welcome to Macroaggressions, I'm your host Charlie Robinson. If you're watching us on BAM.video, Vigilante TV, Rumble, or you're listening, wherever podcasts are served, thanks a million. We appreciate your amazing and continued support as we fight the censorship battle and all that good stuff. If you wanna connect with me, macroaggressions.io is the best place to do that. You can find information about the books, the podcasts, all of the news sites like Activist Post and Natural Blaze. Hopefully you are bookmarking those.

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Charlie Robinson (02:15.735)
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Better off being a month or two early than a day late. So let's figure that out. All right, now that we got the business out of the way, let's get down to the music. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show. Drew and Marie from Spider-Land. Hi guys, good to see you again. It feels like we see each other all the time. How are ya?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (03:00.684)
good. Thank you. What's up, man? Happy to be on. How are you doing?

Charlie Robinson (03:03.843)
Well, I'm happy to see you there. Your band plays at, well, wherever I seem to go and speak, there you guys are, whether it's at Liberty on the Rocks, whether it's at any of the Third Eye Carnivals, be that here in the Colorado area or maybe even in Nashville as well. You find a nice little niche. I got to get to the bottom of this. How...

Cause I'm not a musician at all. And when I watch music, it's like magic. Was this something that you guys picked up early on when you were real little? Was this something that was something like your families were very musical? I never got the music bug. My parents weren't very musical. And I think that might've played a role in it. But I'm always curious to know how people who are musicians get their start in it. Was it something that was offered to you at the home or did you have to...

be rebellious and break away from your parents and go find that dangerous rock music somewhere else.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (04:08.269)
There's a balance between both of it for me. was trained on classical piano as a kid, and I always just had a bug for picking up instruments. I got really into the drums when I was 10 years old, so that took over a ton of my life, which is why I'm so rhythmically oriented lyrically now. But there is a little bit of both. The technical training when I was young.

sort of the teenage rebellion from not wanting to do any of regimented shit and then going into punk and rock and roll and sort of finding a medium ground with it again in my young adulthood of putting that technical learning and applying a real original sense of myself to it.

Charlie Robinson (04:56.483)
about you, Marie, how was your childhood, musical childhood? You know, I was always a bit envious of the people I'd go over there and always look kind of like torture a little bit. like, you have to finish your piano lessons, ding, ding, ding. And then I thought, oh, poor bastard. And then as I got older, it was like, oh, I should have been doing that. I really regretted it. Were you taking that? Were you like forced to take the piano lessons or did you love it?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (05:14.497)
Cool.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (05:20.474)
no, there wasn't really a force of much of anything in my family, honestly. Now my dad is, he was in bands. He's a bass player. So he was a musician my whole life.

I was really into like singing and theater when I was very young. So I was in the dance classes and the theater classes and I really wanted to sing and my dad sang. But honestly, like I kind of, took opera lessons for a while as a teenager and it seemed really pretentious and I just didn't come from that background either. So obviously I just was like, I'm going to be a rock and roller.

You know what I mean? Marie's got rock and roll in the family bloodline. is. And I did, I taught myself how to play guitar too. mean, really it's kind of crazy because I was just a singer and I was like, I can't just like write my own songs with vocally singing. So yeah, I taught myself how to play guitar and I just started rocking out. I moved to Denver and I started a girl band and I was just like, all right, I'm doing it. Still doing it.

Charlie Robinson (06:04.109)
Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (06:24.227)
Who were your inspirations for that? What music are you listening to that says, gotta go start a girl band?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (06:34.446)
Honestly, I really was into younger. I was into like Susie and the Banshees. I liked Madonna when I was really young, just all the typical rock star people. But I think I really got into the indie rock stuff like Jawbreaker and...

Archers of Love, I could name a bunch of like indie rock bands, just that whole kind of movement. When I moved to Denver was so cool to me. And there's Slitter Kenny, I'm sure people know that band. They're like the girl, the indie rock girl band that was so sweet back in the day in the 90s. So all of that stuff was like so new too in that era, like the early 2000s, late 90s. And you know, I just thought it was the coolest. So that's pretty much it.

Charlie Robinson (07:18.167)
What about you, Drew? Like who were you listening to as a kid and are you still listening to it? Like what is that, you know? Cause I've still listened to a lot of the stuff I listened to when I was a kid. And I think, God, I should have evolved past this. Maybe I'm retarded, but maybe I just like it. Maybe I just know what I like, but like what were you listening to as a kid? Are you still listening?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (07:26.766)
I

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (07:39.213)
You know, I was kind of like right on the cusp of I feel like being able to find sort of raw original stuff and like also being a product of like everything that was just on the radio. So, I mean, I've notoriously been like searching always because I, you know, I mean, I think when I was a teenager, it was just like new metal on the radio. Right. And like one thing that one band that will still hold on from the radio for me is like System of a Down, for example.

I know some people think it's like overly dramatic or whatever, I mean that shit goes hard. But like band, you know, like I had a big tool phase, know, tool I always describe as one of the bands that I liked so much that I could never listen to again.

And that's kind of how I feel about like the Beatles and like the 60s psychedelic music as far as like the you know hallucinogenic awakening that had in my teenage years too. Obviously go down all those rabbit holes and you know respect the classics and then it's kind of the same thing. like you know love it all you know the classics kind of make you envious after a while of just how they already did every song you could fucking imagine.

So I mean that led me into hip hop and I was a teenage raver and ended up playing in rock bands throughout my early 20s, doing the gypsy punk thing like Go Go Badello, bands like Man Man that were just sort of like fringe circus acts I really got into. I've always been like...

What is everyone not heading towards as a sort of tribalist mentality? What's not cool? And that's where I wanted to steer towards and look for.

Charlie Robinson (09:17.475)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and you guys wound up in LA, well, Long Beach, LA-ish. was in LA. I was not there for music, how is it for, what was your experience with the music scene in LA, when were you there, but in LA slash Long Beach?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (09:24.418)
Yes. Yeah. LA County.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (09:41.295)
We moved there in 2018 and I think we were there till 2020. Till 2021. were the golden years, So yeah, we got there right before. I mean, I think we were escaping. I know that I was trying to escape like Denver music scene because you've done it. It's a small scene. It's like, what more can you get from it? I mean, it's fun.

Charlie Robinson (09:50.467)
The COVID years.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (10:05.356)
but you're not gonna get anywhere. So it's like, okay, we need to go somewhere bigger, but you go there and find it to be just as big as a shit show and probably even more pretentious and ridiculous. However, we went there and we played music. We even had a gig that we were playing on Catalina Island. Yeah, we'd get all our equipment, get on the ferry and they paid us and they fed us.

Charlie Robinson (10:23.951)
nice.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (10:28.972)
And we met some really great people. just like six hours of cringe every other... It was. One weekend a month, but it was happening. It was. It was pretty cringe, I'm not gonna lie.

Charlie Robinson (10:38.487)
The old people in Catalina Island in their golf carts weren't digging it.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (10:41.514)
yeah. They were they don't they didn't like us because we were very kind of trip hop. You know, we have a hard time doing Jimmy Buffett music. We can't do it is is weird. It's definitely always weird. We could not the kind of music they wanted. We did not produce, you know, and I told them what we did and they hired us. And OK, so sorry. don't know what to tell you. But it was it was a good experience to be out there as far as I think the music culture is just

Charlie Robinson (10:56.899)
That's funny.

Charlie Robinson (11:00.597)
No.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (11:10.584)
That's a shit show though. You know, it's if you're an individual at all and I think me and drew or our music is just not it's not samey I call it it just you can't even really put it into a category So that's just hard for people and I think everybody needs that little click rock pop You know one thing that happened for me in Southern California is that you know, we sort of struggled to get like work for the first like six months we were there and then I landed a like a bar backing job at Alex's bar, which is kind of like a

Charlie Robinson (11:23.798)
It, yeah.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (11:40.407)
underground punk rock and roll soul roots institution, right? So I had kind of gone out to LA with my own sort of hipster pretentiousness being like rock and roll's dead, you know, whatever. But one thing that was like really inspiring to me and almost overwhelming was that there was just like just underground legends just coming through the venue all the time. And in one way, was like that sort of revitalized me in, you know, just

the tenacity of bands and just being sort of iconic at like a street level. But it also did overwhelm me. was like the whole three years that we were out there, though we were doing music the whole time, it really wasn't until after we came back to Colorado that I felt like I could step away and remember that like I was not the person that did.

I was not like the rock and roll icon, I was something else. My talent came from, my skill set was executed in a different way. And it really just took that whole time to sort of like breed the right confidence back in me of like knowing what it is to be tenacious in the music realm but not have to adapt and get overwhelmed by like these, like I said, these sort of underground legends.

Charlie Robinson (13:03.907)
I, when I was living there in the South Bay area, Redondo beach, used to have these, um, every Saturday I bartended at this great, this great bar every Saturday night, we would bring in the promoter and he was a promoter out of Long Beach in that area. And he would, and it would, you know, and the crowd was kind of, kind of rough, but we liked the promoter and he'd always have cool friends with him. And when the bar was shut down, you know, when we get to the end of the night, we'd throw everybody out, but the

promoter would stay and whoever his friends were, was like, oh, you guys could stay. We'd lock the doors and start, you know, clean the place up and play pool with these guys all night. And we, and, and, and it was this group, this group of guys that were his friends and they were in some band and we played, we did this every, I don't know, a couple of times a year for year, for 98, 99, 2000. And I'd play with one guy and my buddy would play with the other guy and I'd always give him a hard time. I just kept fucking with him.

I'd say, now you guys are in a band. They're like, we tell you this every time. I'm like, what's the name of your band again? Like we've told you every time you never met. I'm like, tell me again. Like, we're the black eyed peas. I told you last time we're the black eyed peas. I'm like, never heard of you. And so we would play pool with these guys all night. Like they're the coolest guys in the world. But at that time, nobody knew who they were, right? They were maybe known a little bit around LA, but it wasn't like.

you know, hey, we invited a girl to join our band. Now we're doing the Super Bowl. You know, it wasn't that yet. it, but, but, but we would see that and, and, you know, and I would kind of, I was nice to the guys. was only busting their balls, but it, but I saw the hustle like, you know, hasn't happened yet. Hasn't happened yet. Hasn't happened. We're in year three of us playing pool on Saturday nights. It still hasn't happened yet. And I was, I was pulling for them. They're super nice. They couldn't have been nicer.

I mean, I think the kind of wheels fell off now with like the United Nations stuff with Will. I am doing a lot of UN stuff. would have put, he was my pool partner. I would have told him, should have told him, Hey, Klaus Schwab is no good. But watch out for that. In the future, when these guys try to, you you need to stay away. But, but, but, but being at that age, I was in my twenties and all these other guys in their twenties and we would meet the bands and some of the bands were, were coming there.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (15:13.049)
Watch out for them.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (15:17.583)
You

Charlie Robinson (15:30.007)
really good that we would have play, but they'd go nowhere. And then there's some bands that were out of our area, that'd come out of our area and just one of them would, Pennywise, out of Hermosa, boom, they catch a spark and they're gone. You're like, well, good for them, they took off. we watched, mean, it seemed to me like it would have been a lot of fun for them, except that there was a constant stress of like,

We're trying to make it. We're trying to do the next gig. And what's the next thing? It's a very unstable life, right? In terms of just, yeah, I mean, do you get kind of used to, I mean, what would you do if it was stable? If it was like, well, you you're booked out for the rest of the year. I suppose it'd be fun in some respects, but it's just a...

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (16:08.163)
It's so unstable.

Charlie Robinson (16:24.397)
constant hustle. I come out of the real estate world where you're on 100 % commission and I look at bands and I feel the same way. Like you guys are all 100 % commission too. Like if nobody's hiring you, you know, that's your thing. how, how, so you, you, how do you, how do you get the gigs? How does, how does that world work? Do you guys all kind of know a lot of bookers or, or club owners or I don't, I wonder how this, this system works in independent music.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (16:52.559)
I'll tell you right now. ongoing issue. I mean, I don't know. think most bands, I guess getting a Booker would be okay, but... An agency. An agent. But at the end of the day, they have to pick you up. They have to think they can sell you. They're getting a cut. The whole world of bands has crumbled, too. I mean, now it's pay to play. Even in the big, bigger, like...

Charlie Robinson (16:55.446)
Yeah.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (17:18.959)
DIY, I wouldn't even call them DIY sponsors. Bigger independent venues. We need $500 to come through the door before we can pay you. That's how they're doing it now. So I think the only people that can even still make it as music, as far as music goes, is people that have really big platforms that are not from this era. Like your radio heads and your, all those big bands and they keep touring and then people go to them because they sell tickets. But as far as like,

Musicians that are doing it themselves and they might even have agents but these people have jobs Like every person in a band I know that even does well has a day job Because it's not they're not giving them like great guarantees for us It's like we will stop playing for a while like live shows because it's completely pointless

Nobody comes to shows after COVID, it killed the music industry. People don't go out like they used to. And then all of a sudden the venues are struggling so hard. They make you pay to play or like you guys need to pay the sound guy. This is a disease that's going on in Denver and probably everywhere else. The musicians, the bands need to pay the sound guy. So that means I guess I'm giving him a W9. Like this doesn't even make any sense. You know what I mean? But that's been the struggle and that was happening in Denver. We go to LA, of course it's happening worse out there.

Charlie Robinson (18:30.22)
Right.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (18:37.031)
And we went to Austin and same out there. We went to Nashville. It's the same thing. It's almost like you have to start a whole new revolution in the way music is happening for it to even to be able to continue unless you're like I said, you know, Dave Grohl or one of these huge bands that's already in, you know, I think I think it's yeah. I mean, if you're not existing in sort of like an already built scene or something like that, you know, somewhere, something where the crowd has already pulled in. And this is why

you know, the musical niches like really, you know, kind of just end up defining places, know, like Denver is like the city of bass, right? You know, like all the EDM and the dubstep like wave took over and the jam heads and stuff like that. And that's great. But it's like, you know, it takes that kind of like traction and that kind of like cash flow running through it to like really make sure everyone is

is sustained, you know, even like on the smaller scale, it's like, you know, the DIY joints are typically nonprofits because it's all volunteer based and it's people who doing it for the love. But, you know, in a situation like the blowback gallery where we're, working through some of the kinks and quirks of that right now, it's like, it's in between, it's an art gallery and it kind of like the Meow Wolf thing, you know, it's like, you got to sort of go for it as like a for-profit thing, or you got to decide this is like straight up nonprofit community-based volunteer.

only. But it's hard because artistically, I think you find yourself trying to balance both of those sides constantly. Yeah. It's so hard.

Charlie Robinson (20:14.765)
bet it's tough too, because the side of, know, the musician side of your brain is not necessarily the business side of your brain. these, and when you run across people who are tremendous musicians, maybe they're lacking in some of the business, and then they bring someone in because they recognize that they're lacking. And then that person is a problem. And that person is like, yeah, I understand the business, but here's how I screw you on all these deals.

And here's the 360 deal that you've got now. Now we get a bit piece of everything that you do. We want your merch sales. We want everything, you know? And it's like, oh, it's a great, it used to be that you'd feel like, hey, I got a record deal. Someone gave me a record. Do you need a record deal anymore? Does a record deal mean anything these days or what is the equivalent of getting the record deal now? it, I mean, what is that?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (21:07.844)
virality.

It's all of I don't even think people need them. What are they going to do from they don't that you know? If you were on a good record label, they'd pay they'd pay for your recordings They give you a certain amount of money to go on tour They'd like pay for you that ended in like I would say mid-2000 I would probably say around 2010 that was gone because I've had some friends that are on bigger bigger labels and they They'll give you the money up front, but you have to pay him back But how do you pay him back if you can't do record sells so you got to sell so many tickets?

And I think this is where it just started crumbling. You know what I mean? Because it's actually not sustainable. So I don't know if having I don't think a record deal even makes sense because people aren't selling records. It's all off Spotify. That's another thing that's just destroyed the music industry because it's free. It's free. No one's going to pay for it it's free. They'll pay for their, you know, their monthly subscription and that's them paying for it. But guess what? Spotify doesn't pay the artists. They pay. They pay like huge artists like Taylor.

Swift. They're not paying people like me and Drew. Well, and it all comes after like your own independent virality. That's what I'm saying. It's like, you know, since like the TikTok age and stuff like that, like they'll come to you after they see you went viral via the algorithm, right? So.

Charlie Robinson (22:23.723)
Right. So you got to do that. First, you got to get famous. Then people will like your music. Is that how it works?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (22:29.902)
Then they'll leech on you. Then the bigger leeches come, That's exactly how it works. There's some book out there that's like the 150 snakes of the music industry or something like that. I'm sure that list has expanded into the technocratic age now. But yeah, mean, there's every type of snake you gotta watch out for from the low level to the extra predatory, you know, wanna control every aspect of your creative potential.

Charlie Robinson (22:59.341)
But if you do hit it like Seattle in the early 90s, or like I'm from Palm Desert, Palm Desert in the mid 90s had a big desert spacey space rock desert scene, know, Kyos and these bands on sound, these bands that come out. And like all of a sudden that was the thing. And so everybody's getting record deals because the people at the record label are so...

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (23:15.354)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Robinson (23:26.815)
Incapable of creative thought that they just have to go. now it's Seattle. Let's just blanket everybody with record deals and hope that something comes out. So is that what you kind of have to like hope that the Denver scene all of a sudden takes off and then all these dipshit agents come from everywhere throwing? But but would that even work now? As you said, a record deal doesn't do you any good. So how does the how do you keep that moment? How do you build the momentum in the first place inside? Do you guys have to work together? Do you say?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (23:44.72)
It wouldn't.

Charlie Robinson (23:56.032)
let's make Denver, like do the bands all have to coordinate and sort of say like, what can we do to make Denver itself a location and I mean, how do you even start to do this?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (24:09.504)
they would they don't do it anymore. Denver's music's the height of Denver's music scene when it was really cool cool is done. I think the end of it was around 2016 honestly 16 17 and then literally when COVID hit the the bands don't support each other anymore like how it used to be everybody go to everybody's show everybody would put each other on each other's shows and it would and then they'd have their house parties also we're getting older and you know that's a thing too when you get older you start having kids you have a career maybe you have a home you're not

Charlie Robinson (24:25.901)
Yeah. Yeah.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (24:39.378)
drinking as much anymore. So that's another thing that I think about is like, what happened? I'm like, well, you know, I'm not 20. I'm not in my 20s anymore. So that's something that happened. But I think that like the whole, new generation that's coming into, I don't think they look at music the same way we did. So I don't think it's ever going to come back in that way. I really don't. think something is going to change in it. Maybe there'll be some kind of Renaissance, but I don't think it's going to be what it ever was. And maybe I could be wrong.

Charlie Robinson (24:47.683)
Yeah.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (25:09.358)
This is just when I look at it, because I try to think, how can we build something? How can we?

how can we make this great, let me make it awesome and fun again and creative and just everybody so scattered though. That's another thing. I think they, the powers that shouldn't be deliberately destroyed the art scene with COVID too, because they can't have people being creative. They can't have people being together and having unity. God forbid that, you know, art really does create a great community of people. think there was a lot of that pre-2020 too. I think it was really like bubbling up as far as like festivals.

and frequency in people's engagement with the whole spread of genres. is like before they reignited race war in everybody and shit like that. I think it was really, really moving forward in a positive way. It was.

Things were pretty awesome. Like there was no racist shit talk. Maybe there's always racist shit, right? In the world somewhere. But as far as the communities went, no one was talking about this. We were all getting along. We just wanted to have bad ass shows. We wanted to hang out. We wanted to throw cool festivals. And slowly all this stuff started coming back like right, really a couple of years before COVID. You start these things kind of creeping in. You're just like with the wrong thought type stuff too. You know? So, and then bam, they got.

Charlie Robinson (26:10.306)
Well, I know.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (26:33.092)
COVID happened and they just went full force on just completely destroying people's togetherness in music.

Charlie Robinson (26:39.97)
And I wonder how much this new generation even goes out. Do they go out? Do they go out? I mean, we know they don't drink. We know that. And of course, drinking and bands kind of go together, for better or for worse. If you're drinking the music and you stay a little bit longer, if you're not drinking and you're not really going out and there's a ton of social anxiety or whatever of this newer generation,

That is not a good combination for getting people into places to see live music. So how do we do it? we do, I mean, if they're on, they are on their phones, do you have to go that route and you have to get them, get them that way? Maybe they're never going to come see you live, but maybe they can hear your music that way. I what's the strategy when you've got an entire demographic who's scared of their own shadow and doesn't want to go out in public.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (27:32.771)
Well, one of the only things that does not benefit from live streaming is bands. know, like, like, like DJs, DJs actually live stream world fine, but like bands like fucking lose more than anybody when it comes to live streaming. It was like any time you've ever had somebody like, I know this great band. Listen to them on my phone. You're like, God, like really? Do I have to like, like I have to pretend like I'm actually attentively like being engaging with this is terrible.

But yeah, that is the way to reach back out.

Everyone I really do think that the the the younger generation that's locked into technology Craves experience outside of technology. I think it's smart to not drink, you know, I think They they probably have social anxiety because you know all of the the brainwashing damage Through the fucking screens has done to them But I think there's still a craving for a real social experience and that's the direction that we're moving towards artistically as well. It's you know, it's like this is why

we can't just continue to book a show on a whim and you know completely fucking like annoy our friends with hey I got pre-sales, hey I got pre-sales for you know three weeks in advance. You know can't rely on the friends being fans anyways it's kind of a fucked up relationship to have with your friends anyways but bringing an experience and just like you know sort of

Charlie Robinson (29:02.056)
Yeah.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (29:08.676)
looking past that.

and saying where is the audience that wants to have an experience rather than, my band's just playing this week. It's just not enough. know, like no one, they're like, okay, cool. I can go see music. It's fucking boring. But it's like, you notice that the bands that are succeeding right now, they are good at content presence. And then when they do have live shows that do sell, they are putting on like a valuable experience. returning to like what value is and how to relay that.

through social media and technology, which is like why everyone, this is why we're becoming more like psychological marketing about everything too, which is never where I'd find myself, but it still is involved in being a creative person. So you just, I mean, we're just working new angles and we're, know, what's that whole Chipel thing? Modern solutions for modern times, man, you know?

Charlie Robinson (29:44.002)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Robinson (30:03.427)
But this is the the what they don't tell you when you start a band is that your your other job is marketing whether you want to or not. Like I remember watching that, you know, behind the music of Motley Crue. They're talking about how they were out on Sunset Strip, you know, stapling the flyers on all the telephone poles, all, know, doing doing everything that you had to do to get your to get that you can't rely on the label. So

people could get into a band and they wanna be their musicians and they wanna play music and they do all this. And then they have that realization that there's a whole other side to it, right? The business, the marketing, the bullshit. Is that what kills bands the most is that they have to do all the things that they don't like to do, aren't maybe as qualified to do like the business side and that they put somebody in to handle that and that person screws them. Is that how it works?

What's the band killer? it a cancerous manager? it the lead singer gets all the publishing rights, nobody else? What's the thing that destroys the band these days?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (31:14.874)
Probably all of the above, honestly. I think it's just, it's a culmination of like...

all the stresses. And then when you're in a band too, cause me and Drew, we, well, I was in bands for years. You know, I love being in a band. stopped. big reason we started Spiderland is because it's so hard to get a whole group of people to be able to agree on what we want to do. How do we want to pay for things? Where are we playing? Oh, I can't play here. My wife won't let me do this or whatever it might be, you know, like, so then suddenly there's all these constraints on what you can and can't do as a band and then forget it. Like, and then

Everybody has a job.

Everybody has a job and rent to pay and groceries. So I think that's probably more of a big band killer than anything. If they're not making music, if they can't even get a show, I mean, we're lucky enough that we got to play a ton. Like we were in successful bands. Like I'm very grateful for that. All my bands always got to play. I went on tour for years. I was on a record label, a pretty big record label in my early 20s for one of my bands for a really long time. And I got to experience so much cool stuff. And I think sometimes I'm like, man, some people start a band and they

just want to play a show you know so it's just it's such a wild thing to get into it it's such a hard thing and I don't want to put that out into the universe but it really is hard to be in a band so and then so many people like so many people find that

Charlie Robinson (32:33.773)
bet it is. I bet it's real.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (32:39.438)
you know, quickly becomes not what they want to do, right? What you want to do is write music. want to, know, the best feeling about creating music is like when you create it, right? Like the, whatever the chemistry is with who you're creating with, you're like, in the moment you realize like, that's fucking sweet. Let's follow that. And then you have this song or this, you know, whatever, this project that you've, you've composed.

Yeah, everything that kills it is pretty much the lengths to getting it to audience in between. And then you're told to do all these things that are not what you care about and you're not passionate about.

And like I said, the monetary situation I feel like is just such a huge factor. We've been saying a lot lately and this is what's driven us into the business of it while still trying to maintain our own creative writing, which is lot of self-developed personal work anyways. But no one, our generation or younger artists can be involved in bigger art projects unless they're employed.

So, you know, that is a huge factor where it's just like most people do like, you know, give up and say, hey, I do this for my enjoyment. Maybe we'll try and do some shows, but I just want to write songs with my buddies and, you know, be able to pay my fucking bills. And that part has gotten harder too because of just the economic factors.

Charlie Robinson (34:09.645)
What about with the content that you guys are talking about? Because like you guys are not talking about unicorns and rainbows and things like that. mean, when you get political, when you start talking about things that actually matter in your music and people start to take, understand that there's a seriousness to you. This isn't just like, we're just looking to get fucked up and play music here in front of our friends, but this is more like.

There's music, but there's a message here. We have some thoughts on the way society is ordered and we have some beliefs that maybe it could be reordered differently and that gets into your music. Now you've got yet in this current paradigm that we're in, you've got yet another reason for somebody to go, I don't know about that, right? Is that, do you guys face that because of the content of your songs?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (35:03.414)
It's funny because it's not funny actually it's terrifying because where me and Drew came from in Denver very I mean we were friends with everyone in the music scene like we and we were in all the bands and we all had the same you know beliefs but people didn't really talk that politically honestly in Denver it was more just about having fun until the whole COVID thing happened and when that happened you know we wrote this album called There's Monsters Outside and there was just hints of the political like

I would say thoughts that we were having, maybe not even political, more truth, more like breaking down the truths of like, well, all these lies are coming in, you know, we're feeling so strongly about some of this, we're lightly putting little like breadcrumbs in our music. And I was terrified about that. To move back to Denver when we left, you know, Long Beach, I was afraid because I was like, my God, we're gonna get, we'll get canceled, you know, for sure.

We didn't though, and then we just decided to go all in. Like after we were, you know what I mean? like, was pretty- Well, I think we're still trying to, you know, like each project and each musical creation is like, you know, there's so many things to talk about and like, how can you craft them in ways that sort of like, you know, vibrationally are savvy too. So it's like, I think a lot of it's just being more-

you everyone talks about authenticity and stuff like that but just getting to the core of what you really want to say you know not not being afraid to of what the reactions are like because there's always you know if you're doing well enough someone is going to react badly to what you're doing

Charlie Robinson (36:42.497)
Do you guys know David Sanchez from Havoc? Yeah, we had him on. First of all, he told me that in like the thrash metal industry, everybody's watching James Corbett stuff, which I thought was pretty funny. And he talked about that, about how like the songwriting, the lyrics, you know, that he does, some of the guys in his band don't agree with it.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (36:46.277)
Yeah.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (36:56.73)
Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (37:09.571)
and that he's got to find that line of, know, they're not into it. Maybe they're not, shouldn't say that they don't agree with it, but they think maybe they're normie in a sense that they think that what he's talking about, they don't connect with, but they're still in the band and they still do it. that, do you...

I wonder now what everything as polarizing as it is that you've now you had a band that was good up until you go through COVID. As you said, everything kind of changes after that. Now you've got a hell you got Pete Perata from the offspring who gets thrown out of his band because he refuses to take the vaccines. I mean, what was the what was the vibe like through the music scene when we were when we were going through COVID and they're talking about whether or not

people can come to shows and they have to show their vaccination cards. I know that some venues were making it artist specific, you just, the artist decides whether or not you have to do this or not. I don't know. That was such a weird era for everything. I mean, what did the COVID era teach you about who you're, maybe who your friends are and aren't in the music scene or what was the response to that when you guys finally wanted to go out there and play? Maybe you couldn't really play to everybody that you wanted to.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (38:10.138)
You

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (38:29.656)
I we definitely, had one, I don't know if I'm necessarily canceled from it, but maybe, but I got in a huge fight with like the Mercury Cafe, which had like new ownership and I had.

Told them, okay, we're not doing the vaccine shit. We're not doing the vaccine passport shit, but we'll all say we can do masks. They're making it be masks. I'm like, whatever, we'll do the masks, no vaccine. And like two weeks before the show, she's like, I'm sorry, but with Omicron being so dangerous, everybody has to have a vax card. And I just went, I went after them hard. And and you know, and I'm sure I burnt that bridge, don't really care.

And I was pretty outspoken about it. I know a lot of my friends, I think just because I was so prevalent in the music scene in Denver, I didn't really get challenged much. I think people maybe just don't talk to me anymore. You know what I mean? I never got personally attacked by anyone. And I had a couple of conversations that were a little heated, but it never turned into a total breakup with some people that I totally believed that.

Charlie Robinson (39:22.925)
Yeah, I know.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (39:38.481)
the vaccines you have to take them and you're Hitler if you don't fucking take them. You know what I mean? Like you're gonna kill everyone on the planet if you don't take them and God forbid, you having an idea that maybe you, the government is evil, whatever. You know what I mean? it was, we did have like, some We played throughout those years. yeah. We did play. Like somehow. We did play.

I think in Denver was a little more lax with being like masks, you know, you can't sing with a mask on though. So It's I mean we played shows we played shows That they rejected our friends who didn't have Vax IDs to come in and I mean it was just a weird sort of like

Charlie Robinson (40:14.35)
Right.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (40:34.606)
You know, lot of the navigation was just sort of ducking your head sometimes. You know, there's always been that thing of like the bands get more access, you know, than everyone else. Yeah, it's like even in the past, like you bring your backpack and have like your booze in your backpack and stuff like that to a bar, you know, when no one else can. So it's just very interesting, man. Like, and then just like, and that's why that whole thing was just such a fake fucking theater anyways, because everyone was...

And then it just went away and nobody's questioning or saying anything. That shit pissed me off so bad. Cause we had to play a show where they didn't ask us for a vax card. You know what I mean? But they sure are friends that actually didn't take the vaccine, couldn't get into our show. And it was just bullshit. It was such bullshit. And then what? A couple months later, forget it. And then no one apologizes. No one recognizes it. Nothing. They're just like going back to normal. It just gets under my skin.

Charlie Robinson (41:09.54)
Hmm.

Charlie Robinson (41:13.678)
Mm-hmm.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (41:32.721)
because that was so hard for us too. It was terrifying. But I was like, fuck it, dude. Let them cancel us. Fine. It is always nice to see other people out. there's that passive conversation that was always going on. Nice to find other people in the Denver music scene. I'm friends with Dave's brother, Steve, who plays in a band called Shwarma. And they're in similar situation. A couple of them are like, they're like,

on board with that sense, but some are still like, even our one buddy who had like, heart problems from the point he was a child, they would still be giving him a hard time about not getting the COVID shots, like even though he clearly had like high risk of myocarditis and stuff, he's like, I know why I'm not taking this. It was, if anything, is an exposing time to find other artists who were alert and awake to what was going on. Yeah, which is really cool.

Charlie Robinson (42:30.146)
Yeah. And didn't Pete, Parata and those guys start a band together? A bunch of guys that were, they were all outcast. I forget what they did. Defiant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good for them.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (42:36.912)
Well, they're the defiant now, I'm pretty sure. Which is cool. Which is what it's all about. It's all about defiance, man. We don't even follow them that closely, but I I think it's just a natural intuitive sense. And we have the luxury of just playing music with each other. For now, obviously, we've got dreams of making a bigger production, but there's no question when it comes to is this too

Charlie Robinson (42:45.185)
I know.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (43:05.008)
testy to put in a song. It's just like, what's the true thing to us? What's the more defined thing to us? What's the more authentic thing for us to put out? And that helps us process any of these feelings of retribution from the scene-sters, if you will.

Charlie Robinson (43:23.32)
Yeah, still going on. was in last two years ago, I was in Austin for the American Liberty Awards and I met Michael Graves from Misfits was there and he's a guy who's still touring and still posting that getting fired from some venue before they played about vaccines and masks.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (43:34.863)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Robinson (43:48.727)
Still, like last year, this was still going on. This is still happening at places. And I see this and I go, boy, this feels unsustainable for the venue itself. I mean, I don't know how you can continue to do something like this where you're, I mean, it feels like everybody's kind of laughing. Like nobody's wearing masks anymore. Of course, Ben Affleck's daughter is trying to convince the United Nations that they should bring back mask mandates, which was hilarious. I saw that last week.

But literally nobody else is asking for masks except every now and then I'll see on his ex-feed, Michael Graves, he's been kicked, he's been banned from another place. This is exposing, I guess, but you sort of said that earlier. It's of unveiling of who your friends are, the venues, who's really using their head and who's being reactive and...

scared into submission. I don't know where we go from here with live events and things like this. I'm of the opinion that, you know, COVID broke a lot of people. They're never going to be fixed. That's fine. Let those people stay home. But for the rest of us, I'm not going to participate in vaccine passports or any of this stuff. I'm going to continue to live my life and just go out there and go to shows that I want to see.

flew to Los Angeles just to see Oasis, just to see, I mean, because they come to, you you don't get the chance to see them and people say, are you, are you worried about being in a place like that? Could something bad happen? Yeah, of course. It could happen anywhere. I'm just, I refuse to be like paralyzed by this, but boy, it was embarrassing to see a lot of people, people who I held in higher esteem than this to let COVID destroy them and.

Warped them and then of course the music industry, I saw that and it feels, I don't know, man, I thought rock stars were better than that. And to see all these people cave in late in life and start to, know, the Neil Youngs of the world, didn't have much hope for him to begin with. But you know, I kind of thought that, who was the most disappointing for you guys? Because you're in the business and you see all this stuff. Who was it that was out there slinging vaccines that you just went, nice.

Charlie Robinson (46:14.008)
You, man, how could you do it? mean, what were your thoughts on these vaccine salesmen?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (46:22.892)
the honestly like a lot of the punk rockers i was just like this is so not punk rock dude you know just like jello b offro and you know just i he's he's kind of a big one for like the know the alternative punk crowd and even Neil Young i got really pissed off that he was like i want to take my songs off of spotify if you don't censor Joe Rogan it's like whatever happened to keep on rocking in the free world bro

I used to really like Neil Young. He's dead to me. A lot of these people, I'm like, okay, good. You guys suck so bad. Clearly you're not, you were never a real artist. You were never about free speech. You're just a shill for the government or whatever. Propaganda, I guess, you know? We were actually working a couple of months ago. We never even put this out, but we were working on a video about how in the nineties, this sort of canceling happened against Jawbreaker.

when they were sort of like positioned to become like the new Green Day, right? And then like, I forget, what's the Gilman Street venue in Berkeley? 924 Gilman or something like that. was a big DIY, know, bunch of punk bands came out of, but it was like sort of the first glimpse that like punk rock crowds would turn on you if you identified differently or even if they thought you identified differently, right?

And that was just in the sense of blowing up to a, this term isn't even thrown around anymore, but blown up to a sellout level. And Jawbreaker hadn't even gone forward with any big label signings and the fans were already sort of canceling them to the point where they would turn around, they'd turn their backs to them while they were playing shows and shit like that. And it was really revealing.

In the sense of the herd mentality, yeah, with something like the vaccine rollout and stuff like that to it was just like, yeah, like you so quickly just like your punk rockness goes out the window and the punk rock mentality isn't there at all. It's just about the sort of tribalism and the elitism that you hold with the sort of power in numbers.

Charlie Robinson (48:41.71)
Yeah, it was a mask off moment for a lot of these bands. I think we knew with some of them, it's very corporate rock. And I understand some of them don't really, they're like, I just want to play music. I'm not interested in getting political. But there were bands that were very outspoken politically and were wrong in it. I like it. I don't mind when a band is like, fuck the government and they've got reasons for it. But it's like, trust the government. When it's that, it's like, what do you?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (49:03.578)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Robinson (49:11.396)
What are we doing? Like the, the foo fighters and you know, and this, this stuff, it was a very, and I get it. There's some, they're beholden to corporate interests and they got to go on tour and they brought to you by Budweiser or whatever it brought to you by Pfizer in their case, but embarrassing corporate partnerships and relationships that you make. And I'm sure that if you caught some of the guys in the band, you know, in an honest moment, they'd say, we don't love this. Like we're in marriages with these

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (49:27.514)
Bye.

Charlie Robinson (49:41.477)
corporations that we can't get out of and you we have to shut up sometimes. But who is the most disappointing to you of all of them? I, I, I guess, I mean, I don't know who, who was for me. I always expect a little bit more from like the punk rock scene. I expect them to, to be against the government really for everything, even if they're wrong about it, like just, just on principle, be, and to watch them turn. That was the most disappointing. I wasn't really

disappointed that Neil Young did that because I didn't have much respect for him to begin with and for Green Day to kind of come out. I was like, well, what do you expect? mean, I, again, I'm, they've got too many corporate relationships, but was there somebody in your world that came out and you just felt like they exposed themselves from being an idiot in a way that was irreversible?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (50:35.952)
Personally, for me, I tend to, the people that are like rock stars, so like any of my rock star heroes, like I know Cat Power was, I like Cat Power a lot, Nico Case, I love Nico Case a lot, they went all in on the fucking Psyop dude. But honestly, it didn't surprise me. Because I just feel like you get to a certain point in your career as a musician or an artist and you are in this like, you have to join the camp.

or you're done. feel like that is your mission. Once you've made it that big, there's people that are telling you what you have to do. It was more awesome to be seeing people being like, no, I'm not doing that. That was more of, I was like, yes. But I was expecting it from some of these people. It made me be like, bleh. I was like, cool, well, not gonna listen to them anymore. Even though sometimes I still do, honestly, a song, come on, I'll be like, this is a really good song. Too bad they are total...

woke Alita's Psy-Up spreaders. Whatever.

Charlie Robinson (51:38.262)
Yeah, art from artists is getting tougher and tougher for me these days. You know, as I'm at the sphere watching YouTube going, this is the greatest live performance, I'm going, I also have thoughts about Bono.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (51:42.742)
Yeah, yeah,

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (51:50.298)
Hahaha

We went and saw that in Vegas a couple months ago, actually. I liked Bono. I love you two. I'm growing up, love you two so much. They've got so many great songs. But Bono is totally fake. He's like, he just works for the government or whatever. is anybody that wins an O'Bell Peace Prize now that I'm looking at, they're in some bad shit, which is unfortunate, dude. But when you got to start looking at these things, I'm like, somebody got knighted.

Charlie Robinson (52:02.328)
I do too.

Charlie Robinson (52:17.902)
Yeah.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (52:22.768)
Well, they're not good. They're not good. So it's disappointing because as a child you have these songs that just bring nostalgia and a memory and it's so great. But these people are really working with evil entities, I believe. Like, unfortunately. Yeah. You try and not hold too much judgment, especially around the vaccine mandate with shows thing, especially in like 2021. Because so many people were jumping on board.

Charlie Robinson (52:24.068)
Yeah.

Charlie Robinson (52:35.556)
Yeah.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (52:50.264)
I tried to like keep note of like who was just sort of quiet, know, laying low on it. And you know, like with that, mean, I don't know. mean, COVID is a big deal. in a way, like with that, like you can't just like you were saying with with people in the band, like do they really agree with it? No, there's just so much other business shit that goes into it. And maybe they were just sort of swinging in that direction at the time. As far as like, you know, bigger icons.

Charlie Robinson (52:56.43)
Mm-hmm.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (53:20.068)
who actually have reasonable, you have reasonable suspicion about their malignant incentives behind closed doors. I'm a little more comfortable judging all that shit.

Charlie Robinson (53:36.422)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There were some perverse incentives set up for a lot of people during the COVID era and the musicians obviously had that as well. Let's, well, let's, we'll wrap up with, where are you guys going from here? I mean, I, there is, there's some, there is,

A nice component to this, and we've talked about some of the downside of technology, but never has there been an ability for you guys to reach, potentially of course, if you can get their attention, but to reach and have the distribution to get a billion or billions of people to listen to your music. So there is that possibility out there and you never know when you're gonna strike gold and the.

universe is gonna align itself and things are gonna go mega viral. I'm sure that can't, I'm sure that's probably not the goal of it all, you know, just to make music, but where do you go from here? What's the future look like for you guys, for Spiraland?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (54:48.496)
That is a piece of it, is keep putting yourself out there and not getting drowned out by the fact that millions of other people are putting themselves out there reaching for the same thing. I think it's just aligning more with just staying committed and consistent with putting it out there, just like the content world works. It's got to be churning nonstop and that can be a little overwhelming, but...

Kind like I was talking about earlier, just staying more true to our authentic artist spirits and continue to produce things that are really impactful and what we would want to see in others music as well. Be the inspiration that you wish to see.

What else do we have, We're like, we put it out a video today. It's probably out right now, actually. Yes, we put out our People of Defiance acoustic version, which we did record in 432 Hertz. And we're going down, yeah, we're going down that avenue because it's really interesting about the frequency of sound and it's so subtle. Like you don't really hear it, but you feel it. it's...

Charlie Robinson (55:56.378)
Nice.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (56:08.802)
It's something that we want to dive into more. I'm just interested to see where where music even goes. And I just want to be a part of it, honestly. Like I want to be a part of the change. I I try not to get too caught up about how the yesteryear and how it used to be. And I can get really mad or I can get really, you know, nostalgic or whatever. But it's like this is a pretty important time that we're living in. And things are just shifting so, so, so extremely. And music has to shift. going to shift with it. We actually don't have control over it.

but it would be really cool to see people kind of thinking outside the box and just starting something different, you know? Like the culture was all around drugs and alcohol and just like debauchery pretty much, you know? And it's like, I don't think that's good for humanity either, even though, you know, we did it and it was fun, but maybe music is going into a different realm where it's going to be a higher vibrational experience, right?

Charlie Robinson (56:52.035)
Yeah.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (57:07.834)
Yeah, want to I kind of want to explore this kind of stuff and just see where it takes us. And I don't know what the future holds for it. far as the rock star dreams, I kind of gave those up a while ago. Of course, it'd be nice to get a viral song. Don't get me wrong. Be like, that'd be awesome. Or if we we had like a song that got a million plays, that would be sweet. However, I can't just put all my eggs in that basket, you know.

Charlie Robinson (57:08.345)
Wouldn't that be nice?

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (57:35.067)
Cause at some point we're doing this to be a part of the change. That's how I see it now. I just want to be a part of something better for people and humanity. that's, that's how I'm feeling right now. Yeah. We're at this like, was going to lead me to what we are sort of pushing right now as well. And that's, we're working on this sort of concept, slogan that we're going to start branding forward a little bit, which is called like we become. And just to break down.

Charlie Robinson (57:46.351)
What if that's the marketing campaign? You know, that's it.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (58:05.156)
those in simple definitions, know, what is we that's like a people, the people become definition is begin to be. So what we're really seeking to push forward in our band and our brand, our music, everything we do forward with sort of the conscious evolution revolution that's taking place is we truly believe that we're growing into our true selves. The people are beginning to be.

If you don't mind, do you mind if I read a little description that I wrote just on where we're rolling with this? I've been writing a ton of these, so this is just one of them that I have done. I'm back in the camera. This is just something I wrote as a little description to our launch of the We Become branding. A lot of people talk about this collective amnesia. We as a people have forgotten who we are, yet at this present moment in time,

Charlie Robinson (58:37.765)
Please. Yeah, no, please do. Yeah.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (59:04.784)
where individuals across the board are experiencing the hysterical omnipresence of a spiritual awakening, the threat is coming into focus. They spray the atmosphere to gradually change our biology. They allow toxic chemicals in the food and water to keep our bodies in constant repair, working full time to detoxify the poison. They suggest what the future of civilization will look like through movies and episodic series structured to keep the psyche overstimulated and addicted, giving us options like

multiple-choice question. Speaking of multiple-choice questions, why are we so familiar with that style of quiz? There's an education system in place that diagnoses if you need medication to learn better and learning encourages only a small fraction of students to achieve their dreams and when it's all said and done, dream jobs are dwindling. You've probably become dependent on a system that's never giving back to you. They've killed your faith because they want chaos not righteousness.

You've climbed a mountain only to slip into the fiery mouth of the volcano. Well developed despair. We all stand at the fork in the road. One path gives into substance abuse, compulsive disorder, cognitive dissonance, technological convergence, and digital slavery. The other path seeks truth, aligns with respect, aligns and respects nature, defends free will, values liberty, connects with divinity, and cultivates sovereign law. This is the opportunity to remember who we are.

This is the great split. We've been anticipating the moment we become what we're meant to be. We will know who we are. People begin to be. We become. And that's one sum up of it as we move forward. Well said.

Charlie Robinson (01:00:48.675)
Yeah, what are we becoming? This is a real important time for us as humanity, where we're gonna decide which direction we're gonna go. And of course with the World War III sort of on the horizon, it feels, at least, know, the potential for that pivotal time.

Spyderland (Drew&Marie) (01:00:51.684)
Well, one or the other, I think, at this point.

Charlie Robinson (01:01:13.657)
Really important to decide where we wanna go. Do you wanna be the people that are asking for vaccine passports or do you wanna be part of a free state? That's Drew and Marie, everybody. Go check out Spider-Land. You can go to spiderlandmusic.com for everything that they do. Go download it a million times, by the way, because we said that that's part of the thing. So if you wanna connect with them, spiderlandmusic.com. If you wanna connect with me.

macroaggressions.io is the place to do that. Thanks everybody. Talk to you again soon.